Time to take Bernie seriously

[Bo-4]

Man's on a tear! :toothy9:

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/time-to-take-sanders-seriously-1342599418519606.html

And for only the 3rd time in its history, The Nation Magazine has endorsed a presidential candidate - Bernie!

http://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-for-president/

http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/4248643.jpg

[Cigar]

I've been saying this for Months ... but I've just let the Haters get off on Hillary

[Common]

Funny all the dems are jumping off the Hilly ship now because bernie is surging

[Chris]

Man's on a tear! :toothy9:

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/time-to-take-sanders-seriously-1342599418519606.html

And for only the 3rd time in its history, The Nation Magazine has endorsed a presidential candidate - Bernie!

http://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-for-president/

http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/4248643.jpg


OK, why?

[Mac-7]

Funny all the dems are jumping off the Hilly ship now because bernie is surging

Some of these here are dems who taunted us just a few months ago with hillarys high poll numbers over every republican challenger.

now they are feeling the bern.

[Common]

OK, why?

Because the left is starting to believe they have a better chance with bernie than hillary

[Chris]

Because the left is starting to believe they have a better chance with bernie than hillary

Why?

Is the left recognizing Hillary as a lying 0.1%er or are they embracing democratic socialism?
Bo-4

[texan]

Funny all the dems are jumping off the Hilly ship now because bernie is surging

Yes and Cigar was on the wagon for a long time. He started a little while back to change a little, but up in here he is trying to act like he has been all over it.

Whatever!

[Cigar]

Funny all the dems are jumping off the Hilly ship now because bernie is surging

If you were really paying any attention ... you wouldn't be saying that.

I've said it boefore and I'll say it again, all the EXPERTS have been making predictions and not ONE Primary Vote has been cast :laugh: Remember the same EXPERTS gracing us with their vast political wisdom when Hillary was way ahead of Senator Obama in the polls before the Primaries. :tongue:

[Chris]

Cigar, you're a capitalist, why vote for a democratic socialist?

[Cigar]

@Cigar (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=294), you're a capitalist, why vote for a democratic socialist?

Because I'm not an single issue Voter

[Bo-4]

Why?

Is the left recognizing Hillary as a lying 0.1%er or are they embracing democratic socialism?
@Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297)

Can't do Hillary Chris.

[Bo-4]

Funny all the dems are jumping off the Hilly ship now because bernie is surging

Not many here i've noticed who've been on the Hillary ship. We defend her against nonsense from time to time but that's about it.

[Common]

Not many here i've noticed who've been on the Hillary ship. We defend her against nonsense from time to time but that's about it.

uhh bo dont try to pull my leg im not that easy. Most all the left have been all over hillary and defend her everything mightily. NONE of you even spoke of Bernie much at all until recently.

[Cigar]

uhh bo dont try to pull my leg im not that easy. Most all the left have been all over hillary and defend her everything mightily. NONE of you even spoke of Bernie much at all until recently.

Let's just say that's true ... so?

Are you aware of what Campaigning is for and what Primates are for? :huh:

[del]

uhh bo dont try to pull my leg im not that easy. Most all the left have been all over hillary and defend her everything mightily. NONE of you even spoke of Bernie much at all until recently.

i had a quote from bernie as my sig for almost a year

[Ethereal]

Bernie is not my ideal candidate by any means, but he is infinitely better than Hillary. Good luck to him.

[nathanbforrest45]

Let's just say that's true ... so?

Are you aware of what Campaigning is for and what Primates are for? :huh:

Primates are for testing perfumes

[Chris]

Because I'm not an single issue Voter

I'm asking what are the positives you see in Bernie.

[Chris]

Can't do Hillary Chris.

Huh? So you have no reasons to do Bernie?

[Truth Detector]

GO Bernie, GO Bernie, GO Bernie!!

I'm all in for Democrats to pick the Bernmeister.

[Chris]

Bernie is not my ideal candidate by any means, but he is infinitely better than Hillary. Good luck to him.

He seems to be the honest candidate.

[Cigar]

Bottom-Line Folks; I'm a Democrat, and I'll Vote for the Democrat for President of the United States.

I have no doubt, Republicans will Vote for the Republican for President of the United States.

So who cares what the other person does?

[Ethereal]

I'm asking what are the positives you see in Bernie.

How about just being consistent and principled?

As far as him being a democratic socialist, I'm having a hard time distinguishing him from the other mainstream candidates in that regard. As far as I can tell, they are all "democratic socialists" insofar as they all support, to one degree or another, socialized safety nets.

[Truth Detector]

Bottom-Line Folks; I'm a Democrat, and I'll Vote for the Democrat for President of the United States.

I have no doubt, Republicans will Vote for the Republican for President of the United States.

So who cares what the other person does?

Says the guy who has started numerous TrumpTARD threads. Apparently YOU care. :biglaugh:

[Common]

i had a quote from bernie as my sig for almost a year

Its never everyone del, left or right

[Peter1469]

The minorities are not going to come out in large numbers for Bernie. Democrats can't win without plenty of minority support.

[Ethereal]

He seems to be the honest candidate.

We also have to keep in mind that he's running for President, not dictator, so even though he is a self-described democratic socialist, his agenda will still be constrained by the legislative and judicial branches, so it's not like he's going to get everything he wants. Maybe he can find a way to obtain some reasonable compromises, or maybe his Presidency will be characterized by inactivity, which is not necessarily a bad thing. At least that has some measure of predictability, which is favorable to markets.

[Ethereal]

Bottom-Line Folks; I'm a Democrat, and I'll Vote for the Democrat for President of the United States.

I have no doubt, Republicans will Vote for the Republican for President of the United States.

And Americans, as usual, will be the big losers.

[Bo-4]

uhh bo dont try to pull my leg im not that easy. Most all the left have been all over hillary and defend her everything mightily. NONE of you even spoke of Bernie much at all until recently.

Not true at all. People talk about Bernie all the time. Granted, Trump makes more news and he's entertaining as hell but Bernie's always been on the radar.

[Common]

I will say this Bernie sanders in my opinion is far more honest and sincere than hillary.

I have a huge dilemna this election cycle. I dont like ANY of the candidates they are all saying things I do not like and believe are bad for the country. I endeared myself to no candidate.

Ill tell ya this im sick of partisan bickering and the subsequent lieing. The country would be so much better off if people would say a democrat position SUCKS or a republican position SUCKS instead of just carrying the parties water no matter what.

[Bo-4]

Huh? So you have no reasons to do Bernie?

Plenty of reasons to be a Bernie guy. How much time ya got?

[Chris]

Plenty of reasons to be a Bernie guy. How much time ya got?

Give us two or three.

[Bo-4]

Give us two or three.

He's honest
He's not a neocon
He'll make Wall Street accountable
I trust him

Can't say any of those things about Hillary.

[Bo-4]

The minorities are not going to come out in large numbers for Bernie. Democrats can't win without plenty of minority support.

Granted he has some work to do there. But if Trump is the nominee? Here are the most recent polls.

Trump vs Clinton



FOX News (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-national-presidential-race-obama-ratings/)
1/4 - 1/7
1006 RV
3.0
44
47
Trump +3



Trump vs Bernie



Quinnipiac (http://www.quinnipiac.edu/images/polling/us/us12222015_Uhkm63g.pdf)
12/16 - 12/20
1140 RV
2.9
51
38
Sanders +13

[Private Pickle]

He's honest
He's not a neocon
He'll make Wall Street accountable
I trust him

Can't say any of those things about Hillary.

And you will still vote for Hillary in November.

[Bo-4]

And you will still vote for Hillary in November.

I think Bernie is gonna beat her. He's peaking at the exact right time.

But if i'm wrong and R's go with Trump, Cruz or Rubio?

Damn straight - i ain't crazy

[Peter1469]

Granted he has some work to do there. But if Trump is the nominee? Here are the most recent polls.

Trump vs Clinton



FOX News (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-national-presidential-race-obama-ratings/)
1/4 - 1/7
1006 RV
3.0
44
47
Trump +3



Trump vs Bernie



Quinnipiac (http://www.quinnipiac.edu/images/polling/us/us12222015_Uhkm63g.pdf)
12/16 - 12/20
1140 RV
2.9
51
38
Sanders +13




Democrats can't win without massive minority turnout on election day.

Sanders won't get minorities to the polls in significant numbers.

[Chris]

He's honest
He's not a neocon
He'll make Wall Street accountable
I trust him

Can't say any of those things about Hillary.

Agree
Agree
How so?
Same as point 1

[Peter1469]

Since Virgina is an open primary state I will probably vote for one of the democrats to muck their race up.

[Bo-4]

Agree
Agree
How so?
Same as point 1

Not easy to make Wall Street accountable i'll grant you. But he'll push for eliminating corporate welfare and tax loopholes for bazillionaires.

Trust is an intangible thing. You either trust someone or you don't. Hillary lost mine years ago.

[Tahuyaman]

I will say this Bernie sanders in my opinion is far more honest and sincere than hillary.

I have a huge dilemna this election cycle. I dont like ANY of the candidates they are all saying things I do not like and believe are bad for the country. I endeared myself to no candidate.

Ill tell ya this im sick of partisan bickering and the subsequent lieing. The country would be so much better off if people would say a democrat position SUCKS or a republican position SUCKS instead of just carrying the parties water no matter what.

I would agree that he's more sincere than Hillary Clinton. He's not afraid to state his views. He's not trying to be everything to everyone as Hillary is trying to be. He tells you what he believes and leaves it up to you.

I'm not sure that he's really that honest considering the latest news concerning his handling of campaign money. Money seems to have the impact upon him as it doesn't most politicians.

Partisanship is is here to stay, so you need to get used to it. Just as the president decries the partisanship, says we need to get beyond it, then in the next breath goes on a partisan rant. That's the way it is.

[leekohler2]

Sanders can't win the general election. Never going to happen.

[Boris The Animal]

Because I'm not an single issue VoterSure you are. Name the last Republican you voted for? And no, dog catcher doesn't count.

[Boris The Animal]

Not easy to make Wall Street accountable i'll grant you. But he'll push for eliminating corporate welfare and tax loopholes for bazillionaires.

Trust is an intangible thing. You either trust someone or you don't. Hillary lost mine years ago.And watch the entire US economy come crashing down.

[Chris]

Not easy to make Wall Street accountable i'll grant you. But he'll push for eliminating corporate welfare and tax loopholes for bazillionaires.

Trust is an intangible thing. You either trust someone or you don't. Hillary lost mine years ago.

Why not inate all forms of welfare?

[Truth Detector]

Not easy to make Wall Street accountable i'll grant you.

We don't need to make Wall Street accountable; we need to make politicians accountable.


But he'll push for eliminating corporate welfare and tax loopholes for bazillionaires.

Another dim witted talking point lacking in factual content. if Bernie got elected, his policies would have the same success as they did in Venezeula.


Trust is an intangible thing. You either trust someone or you don't. Hillary lost mine years ago.

Anyone who trusts politicians and Government is a simpleton. I can't imagine a greater ignorance than fearing capitalism while embracing big Government.

[Peter1469]

Make Wall Street accountable by not bailing them out when they fail. And by criminal charges against those who violate the criminal code.

[Truth Detector]

Make Wall Street accountable by not bailing them out when they fail. And by criminal charges against those who violate the criminal code.

We wouldn't need to bail them out of Government didn't meddle in mortgages and an onerous ax code.

[Cigar]

Make Wall Street accountable by not bailing them out when they fail. And by criminal charges against those who violate the criminal code.

Democrats introduced legislation ... so why a Republicans against it?

[Peter1469]

Democrats introduced legislation ... so why a Republicans against it?

What legislation?

[Bo-4]

And watch the entire US economy come crashing down.

Oh, kind of like when we had to bail out the too big to fail banks who were making liar's loans?

[Truth Detector]

Democrats introduced legislation ... so why a Republicans against it?

What legislation? "Why a Republicans"? Have you been drinking already?

[Bo-4]

We don't need to make Wall Street accountable; we need to make politicians accountable.

We need to make them BOTH accountable.


Another dim witted talking point lacking in factual content. if Bernie got elected, his policies would have the same success as they did in Venezeula.

Well, vote for Trump, Cruz or Rubio and you'll have really REALLY big government (and in the case of Rubio, a few more two trillion dollar forays into places we don't belong).


Anyone who trusts politicians and Government is a simpleton. I can't imagine a greater ignorance than fearing capitalism while embracing big Government.

I don't fear capitalism ... with RULES.

[Truth Detector]

Oh, kind of like when we had to bail out the too big to fail banks who were making liar's loans?

The banks weren't making "liars" loans. They were doing what Congress demanded they do; give loans to people who never should have gotten them or be called out as racists.

Because of the massive balloon in loans and low rates of returns, Wall Street packaged these loans and labeled them as "secure" regardless of ability to pay the ballon pay,nets that came due in five years. Greedy rich people and Governments bought up these securities thinking they would get an easy fat return.

Now you have the real story. Moral: don't allow Government to meddle in the private markets.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yga7TlsA-1A

[leekohler2]

We don't need to make Wall Street accountable; we need to make politicians accountable.

We need to to make both accountable.


Anyone who trusts politicians and Government is a simpleton. I can't imagine a greater ignorance than fearing capitalism while embracing big Government.

Anyone who trusts corporations is a simpleton.

[Tahuyaman]

Democrats introduced legislation ... so why a Republicans against it?


What legislation?


There are pieces of legislation that Obama supported that the majority of his party opposed. He had to rely on Republicans to get it passed.

[Truth Detector]

We need to make them BOTH accountable.

One is already accountable under massive regulations and the security exchange commission. The other is not accountable when it constantly passes legislation intended to pander to voters and allow dishonest and corrupt politicians to keep their jobs that leads to such calamities.


Well, vote for Trump, Cruz or Rubio and you'll have really REALLY big government (and in the case of Rubio, a few more two trillion dollar forays into places we don't belong).

I cannot imagine a greater irony and hypocrisy; a leftist Democrat claiming Republicans are for bigger Government.


I don't fear capitalism ... with RULES.

There are rules; a massive pile of them. So yes, you foolishly place your trust in corrupt politicians while rearing free markets.

[Tahuyaman]

The banks weren't making "liars" loans. They were doing what Congress demanded they do; give loans to people who never should have gotten them...

And I believe they are on the road to doing that again.

[Truth Detector]

We need to to make both accountable.

No; we need to make politicians accountable. How do you think that can be done?


Anyone who trusts corporations is a simpleton.

I don't trust corporations; I trust markets. Only fools trust politicians and think that corporate entities are the problem.

[Truth Detector]

And I believe they are on the road to doing that again.

I believe that you are correct. All these massive mortgage aid programs as part of the $850 billion porkulus bill passed on a strictly partisan Democratic vote are contributing to it once again.

[Bo-4]

We need to to make both accountable.

Anyone who trusts corporations is a simpleton.

Thank you.. Clearly TD is an unabashed corporation fluffer.

;-)

[Mac-7]

Bernie is not my ideal candidate by any means, but he is infinitely better than Hillary. Good luck to him.

I think its time to borrow Peter's example of running off a cliff faster or slower.

But I see so much bad in either I cant decide who is worse.

[Tahuyaman]

I believe that you are correct. All these massive mortgage aid programs as part of the $850 billion porkulus bill passed on a strictly partisan Democratic vote are contributing to it once again.


Except next time they are going employ the same methods, but tell us that they got it right this time.

[Cigar]

What legislation?

Really dude ... does the name Elizabeth ring any bells

[Truth Detector]

Thank you.. Clearly TD is an unabashed corporation fluffer.

;-)

It's clear that I'm not; but then, facts and reality have never been your strong suite.

[Truth Detector]

Really dude ... does the name Elizabeth ring any bells

Does this mean you don't know what legislation you are talking about? Why be obtuse? Because the facts just won't support your emotional outbursts?

[leekohler2]

One is already accountable under massive regulations and the security exchange commission. The other is not accountable when it constantly passes legislation intended to pander to voters and allow dishonest and corrupt politicians to keep their jobs that leads to such calamities.

Politicians are held accountable by voters. We can't vote for or against corporations. And they are far form held accountable.


I cannot imagine a greater irony and hypocrisy; a leftist Democrat claiming Republicans are for bigger Government.

They are- just a different kind of bigger government, such as controlling your body and what you do in your bedroom. Also, growing the military to the point we've never seen before. If you think they aren't, the hypocrite is not any of us.


There are rules; a massive pile of them. So yes, you foolishly place your trust in corrupt politicians while rearing free markets.
'
Yeah, rules with loopholes so large you can drive a semi truck through them. Again, if you trust corporations, the fool is you.

[leekohler2]

No; we need to make politicians accountable. How do you think that can be done?

Voting.

[Bo-4]

The banks weren't making "liars" loans. They were doing what Congress demanded they do; give loans to people who never should have gotten them or be called out as racists.

Because of the massive balloon in loans and low rates of returns, Wall Street packaged these loans and labeled them as "secure" regardless of ability to pay the ballon pay,nets that came due in five years. Greedy rich people and Governments bought up these securities thinking they would get an easy fat return.

Now you have the real story. Moral: don't allow Government to meddle in the private markets.

Sadly Truth Detector, Bush was the enabler via a combination of deregulation and no down liar's loans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqQx7sjoS8

[Chris]

How did Bernie vote on making the Fed accountable?

[Bo-4]

How did Bernie vote on making the Fed accountable?

Yes

http://observer.com/2016/01/what-bernie-sanders-vote-to-audit-the-fed-says-about-his-devotion-to-bipartisanship/

[Chris]

Yes

http://observer.com/2016/01/what-bernie-sanders-vote-to-audit-the-fed-says-about-his-devotion-to-bipartisanship/

Cool! Good guy.

How does he feel about the Ex-Im Bank?

[Bo-4]

Cool! Good guy.

How does he feel about the Ex-Im Bank?

Here ya go:

http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/bernie-sanders-gop-ally-opposing-export-import-bank-2125378

[Dr. Who]

uhh bo dont try to pull my leg im not that easy. Most all the left have been all over hillary and defend her everything mightily. NONE of you even spoke of Bernie much at all until recently.
Meh, I've suggested that I thought Bernie was the better candidate, although not certain that he could win because of the socialist label. Were I a Dem supporter, I would be very annoyed that the pickings were so slim. The DNC essentially decided that they were running one candidate and the rest were window dressing. Bernie is essentially an outsider that has chosen to run on the DNC ticket and the only reason that there is any choice at all.

[Common]

Meh, I've suggested that I thought Bernie was the better candidate, although not certain that he could win because of the socialist label. Were I a Dem supporter, I would be very annoyed that the pickings were so slim. The DNC essentially decided that they were running one candidate and the rest were window dressing. Bernie is essentially an outsider that has chosen to run on the DNC ticket and the only reason that there is any choice at all.

I dont believe Bernie can win nationally

[Dr. Who]

I dont believe Bernie can win nationally
Probably not, but given the choice for Dem voters, I wonder whether they would vote for Hillary if she is chosen as the nominee? At this point it may be a choice between someone with integrity vs someone whose integrity is in tatters.

[ThaiBoxer]

Funny all the dems are jumping off the Hilly ship now because bernie is surging

I've been with Bernie since day one.

[Common]

Probably not, but given the choice for Dem voters, I wonder whether they would vote for Hillary if she is chosen as the nominee? At this point it may be a choice between someone with integrity vs someone whose integrity is in tatters.

I think they would vote for her if it was trump or her. Democrats put all their marbles on hillary. Democrats need to get rid of Wasserman and get some one with integrity in charge of the DNC

[Dr. Who]

I think they would vote for her if it was trump or her. Democrats put all their marbles on hillary. Democrats need to get rid of Wasserman and get some one with integrity in charge of the DNC
I wasn't sure if at the beginning the DNC was serious or whether Hillary was the throwaway candidate for 2017. It may well have started out that way, given that they didn't really try to run anyone else. Theoretically, this was likely to be a RNC victory, based on history. The DNC may have just been going through the motions. Miraculously, Trump threw a monkey wrench into the process - still not convinced that he's not a Dem ringer, but even if he's not, it has upset the RNC applecart. Plus Bernie joined on the Dem side, so you have two outsiders effectively messing up what would be a not particularly exciting nomination process and challenging the status quo. The election itself may be far less interesting than the process to pick the nominee. The Dems now think that they have a chance to win - but with which candidate?

The Reps are beside themselves with this quasi-liberal populist (that they can't abide) upstart stealing the thunder of all of the dyed in the wool Republican candidates that thought this was their turn at power, who is dividing the voters.

The American public has an appetite for change and neither party is prepared.

[Common]

I wasn't sure if at the beginning the DNC was serious or whether Hillary was the throwaway candidate for 2017. It may well have started out that way, given that they didn't really try to run anyone else. Theoretically, this was likely to be a RNC victory, based on history. The DNC may have just been going through the motions. Miraculously, Trump threw a monkey wrench into the process - still not convinced that he's not a Dem ringer, but even if he's not, it has upset the RNC applecart. Plus Bernie joined on the Dem side, so you have two outsiders effectively messing up what would be a not particularly exciting nomination process and challenging the status quo. The election itself may be far less interesting than the process to pick the nominee. The Dems now think that they have a chance to win - but with which candidate?

The Reps are beside themselves with this quasi-liberal populist (that they can't abide) upstart stealing the thunder of all of the dyed in the wool Republican candidates that thought this was their turn at power, who is dividing the voters.

The American public has an appetite for change and neither party is prepared.

Trump is saying what most of america wants, it all comes down to if they believe him enough to vote for him.

The bigger news than bernie catching hillary, is that trump now leads in the general across teh county by 13 % not too long ago hillary was ahead more than that.

[Dr. Who]

Trump is saying what most of america wants, it all comes down to if they believe him enough to vote for him.

The bigger news than bernie catching hillary, is that trump now leads in the general across teh county by 13 % not too long ago hillary was ahead more than that.
If Obama's term should have taught the public anything, it's that what the President wants makes little difference if he has no support in Congress. I wonder how much support Trump would garner from either side of the house?

[Green Arrow]

So far the polls show Bernie beating Trump by 13 points, versus Clinton losing to Trump by 3. I don't know how reliable that is, but the idea that Bernie has zero chance of winning the general is completely ignorant of trends and demographics.

Minorities won't choose Trump over Bernie, and if they don't turn out to vote for either one, guess what? There's a whole generation of new voters that Bernie has locked up by 80% or more. Obama won with the minority vote, Bernie can win with the youth vote.

[leekohler2]

So far the polls show Bernie beating Trump by 13 points, versus Clinton losing to Trump by 3. I don't know how reliable that is, but the idea that Bernie has zero chance of winning the general is completely ignorant of trends and demographics.

Minorities won't choose Trump over Bernie, and if they don't turn out to vote for either one, guess what? There's a whole generation of new voters that Bernie has locked up by 80% or more. Obama won with the minority vote, Bernie can win with the youth vote.

I have to say, you make a very strong case.

[JVV]

Democrats can't win without massive minority turnout on election day.

Sanders won't get minorities to the polls in significant numbers.


Sure he will.

He was a hit at the Brown & Black forum in Iowa. He just needs to be heard more, and the better he does, the more he'll be heard.

Minorities will come to him because he speaks the truth about high unemployment in vulnerable populations, and because the Republicans have been so hateful. Hispanics will come to him in droves if Trump is the nominee.

[Kurmugeon]

Bernie is not my ideal candidate by any means, but he is infinitely better than Hillary. Good luck to him.

The only decent Democratic Party Candidate in 2016 was Jim Webb, but he has been destroyed by the DNC, Hillary, and "The Bern".

Webb would have made a good President, if a bit too much to Left for my tastes. But Jim Webb is a fundamentally GOOD MAN.

The loons and wackos left in the Dem camp are just an embarrassment.

-

[Green Arrow]

The only decent Democratic Party Candidate in 2016 was Jim Webb, but he has been destroyed by the DNC, Hillary, and "The Bern".

Webb would have made a good President, if a bit too much to Left for my tastes. But Jim Webb is a fundamentally GOOD MAN.

The loons and wackos left in the Dem camp are just an embarrassment.

-

Bernie didn't do anything to take Webb down. The opposite, in fact, as just about everything he said about Webb was positive and complimenting.

[Peter1469]

I wasn't sure if at the beginning the DNC was serious or whether Hillary was the throwaway candidate for 2017. It may well have started out that way, given that they didn't really try to run anyone else. Theoretically, this was likely to be a RNC victory, based on history. The DNC may have just been going through the motions. Miraculously, Trump threw a monkey wrench into the process - still not convinced that he's not a Dem ringer, but even if he's not, it has upset the RNC applecart. Plus Bernie joined on the Dem side, so you have two outsiders effectively messing up what would be a not particularly exciting nomination process and challenging the status quo. The election itself may be far less interesting than the process to pick the nominee. The Dems now think that they have a chance to win - but with which candidate?

The Reps are beside themselves with this quasi-liberal populist (that they can't abide) upstart stealing the thunder of all of the dyed in the wool Republican candidates that thought this was their turn at power, who is dividing the voters.

The American public has an appetite for change and neither party is prepared.


The people are about done with the parties. There is nothing that they can do to prepare. They are not going to uncorrupt themselves.

[Peter1469]

Sure he will.

He was a hit at the Brown & Black forum in Iowa. He just needs to be heard more, and the better he does, the more he'll be heard.

Minorities will come to him because he speaks the truth about high unemployment in vulnerable populations, and because the Republicans have been so hateful. Hispanics will come to him in droves if Trump is the nominee.


Or record low turnout.... :wink:

[Chris]

If Obama's term should have taught the public anything, it's that what the President wants makes little difference if he has no support in Congress. I wonder how much support Trump would garner from either side of the house?

I'd expect Reps to hold onto Congress, so a Rep in the White House could be dangerous.

[PolWatch]

I have always believed that Clinton was the throwaway candidate. 2016 should have been the year of the GOP and Hillary's nomination was her reward for party loyalty. Trump has splintered the GOP so badly, the dems actually have a shot at the presidency. If the nominees are Trump & Clinton we will probably see the lowest voter turn-out in history.

[PolWatch]

I'd expect Reps to hold onto Congress, so a Rep in the White House could be dangerous.

True, but if Trump were elected he will encounter the same attitude that Obama has encountered. I suspect Cruz would also meet with a lack of enthusiasm.

[AeonPax]

The people are about done with the parties. There is nothing that they can do to prepare. They are not going to uncorrupt themselves.
`
I don't like Trump but he has become a catalyst for change. The "for-profit", "party before country" Republicrats, have been dictating to the American public, the issues THEY think the voters should be concerned about. Trump's appearance has provided a crack that will hopefully shatter the duopolys' false veneer. Sander's has for his part, has shown the left how out of touch, if not totally duplicitous Hillary Clinton is. Things like this; "Amid Fundraising Surge for Sanders, Are Clinton 'Panic Attacks' Backfiring? (http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/01/14/amid-fundraising-surge-sanders-are-clinton-panic-attacks-backfiring)" have proved the Democrats are abandoning the liberal/progressive base in lieu of being like the Republicans in supporting the banks, corporations and cash-rich lobbyists representing for-profit special interests.

I'm voting for Bernie Sanders. If he loses, I'm voting for Jill Stein (http://www.jill2016.com/) of the Green Party.

[Bo-4]

So far the polls show Bernie beating Trump by 13 points, versus Clinton losing to Trump by 3. I don't know how reliable that is, but the idea that Bernie has zero chance of winning the general is completely ignorant of trends and demographics.

Minorities won't choose Trump over Bernie, and if they don't turn out to vote for either one, guess what? There's a whole generation of new voters that Bernie has locked up by 80% or more. Obama won with the minority vote, Bernie can win with the youth vote.

You're exactly right. Bernie has tapped the same youth enthusiasm Obama did and using many of the same techniques and databases. Hillary has been a huge failure with that particular demographic.

He's actually doing better than Obama at this point with small donors. Last i saw, he had 3 million separate donors with an average contribution of 27 bucks.

Sounds familiar huh?

[Tahuyaman]

I have always believed that Clinton was the throwaway candidate. 2016 should have been the year of the GOP and Hillary's nomination was her reward for party loyalty. Trump has splintered the GOP so badly, the dems actually have a shot at the presidency. If the nominees are Trump & Clinton we will probably see the lowest voter turn-out in history.


I'm not sure what you mean about her being a "throw away" candidate?

I do agree that in 2016 the nomination was supposed to be hers for payback purposes. Payback for getting aced out in 2008. The DNC is run by women who resent the way she got upstaged then.

Trump hasn't splintered anything. The GOP Splintering started a long time ago. It started when they nominated Bob Dole because it was his turn, (sort of like it is today with Hillary Clinton) and was finalized when they nominated Romney and McCain back to back. The conservatives just sat back and lost interest in the Republican Party. If the GOP nominates a solid conservative, the splintering will end.

I believe voter turnout will be in the same range that it has been over the last few election cycles no matter who's nominated.

[Chris]

`
I don't like Trump but he has become a catalyst for change. The "for-profit", "party before country" Republicrats, have been dictating to the American public, the issues THEY think the voters should be concerned about. Trump's appearance has provided a crack that will hopefully shatter the duopolys' false veneer. Sander's has for his part, has shown the left how out of touch, if not totally duplicitous Hillary Clinton is. Things like this; "Amid Fundraising Surge for Sanders, Are Clinton 'Panic Attacks' Backfiring? (http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/01/14/amid-fundraising-surge-sanders-are-clinton-panic-attacks-backfiring)" have proved the Democrats are abandoning the liberal/progressive base in lieu of being like the Republicans in supporting the banks, corporations and cash-rich lobbyists representing for-profit special interests.

I'm voting for Bernie Sanders. If he loses, I'm voting for Jill Stein (http://www.jill2016.com/) of the Green Party.



Let's hope both sides of the duopoly collapse in this election.

[Boris The Animal]

`
I don't like Trump but he has become a catalyst for change. The "for-profit", "party before country" Republicrats, have been dictating to the American public, the issues THEY think the voters should be concerned about. Trump's appearance has provided a crack that will hopefully shatter the duopolys' false veneer. Sander's has for his part, has shown the left how out of touch, if not totally duplicitous Hillary Clinton is. Things like this; "Amid Fundraising Surge for Sanders, Are Clinton 'Panic Attacks' Backfiring? (http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/01/14/amid-fundraising-surge-sanders-are-clinton-panic-attacks-backfiring)" have proved the Democrats are abandoning the liberal/progressive base in lieu of being like the Republicans in supporting the banks, corporations and cash-rich lobbyists representing for-profit special interests.

I'm voting for Bernie Sanders. If he loses, I'm voting for Jill Stein (http://www.jill2016.com/) of the Green Party.Green Party=watermelon. Green on the outside, Communist on the inside.

[PolWatch]

2016 should have been a walk down easy street for the GOP....the polls on Obama, the lagging economy should have made it a sure bet. Trump is voicing the views of the extreme right wing....lots of complaints with no solutions. He is cutting those voters out of the herd that would normally pull the repub lever without thinking about it. I don't think the repub leadership will allow him to be the candidate and that will anger his supporters. If denied the nomination, he will probably run as an independent. That will effectively split the gop.

A throwaway candidate is someone who is nominated that doesn't have an ice-cube's chance. The nomination is given to them as a reward for party loyalty (Bob Dole). I don't think the dems believed they had a chance so they could run Clinton and save any real candidates for the next election. Bernie is the dem version of Trump....a wild card that no one saw coming.

Both parties have ignored the views of their members....its just more obvious with the repubs right now.

[Tahuyaman]

2016 should have been a walk down easy street for the GOP.....

The election hasn't happened yet. What should be still could be. your comment makes it sound like the election was a month ago.

The vast majority believe the country is and has been heading in the wrong direction. Most of those same people believe that we can not continue that same path for the next four to eight years. None of the three Domocrats running are inspiring confidence in that majority that they can change course.

[Truth Detector]

The election hasn't happened yet. What should be still could be. your comment makes it sound like the election was a month ago.

The vast majority believe the country is and has been heading in the wrong direction. Most of those same people believe that we can not continue that same path for the next four to eight years. None of the three Domocrats running are inspiring confidence in that majority that they can change course.

It's much worse than that; the DNC is getting a collective yawn by the American people. The excitement right now is on the Republican side with a large and diverse choice of candidates.

Democrats know they are in trouble in November so they believe that they can win by fear mongering the potential Republican candidates. It won't work and there will be a Republican in the White House and a majority in the House and Senate. Then, finally, we will get some financial sanity back and perhaps some policies that will really help the economy get back on its feet.

[Subdermal]

I have to say, you make a very strong case.

You should stop misdiagnosing your feelings as thoughts.

[Tahuyaman]

It's much worse than that; the DNC is getting a collective yawn by the American people. The excitement right now is on the Republican side with a large and diverse choice of candidates.

Democrats know they are in trouble in November so they believe that they can win by fear mongering the potential Republican candidates. It won't work and there will be a Republican in the White House and a majority in the House and Senate. Then, finally, we will get some financial sanity back and perhaps some policies that will really help the economy get back on its feet.

I agree that none of the Democrats are exciting or inspiring to the majority.

However, the Republicans can still screw it up if they nominate someone who doesn't offer a clear alternative to the course we are on now as a nation. The last two presidential elections should give the Republicans a clue as to how defeat can be snatched from the jaws of victory.

[Truth Detector]

I agree that none of the Democrats are exciting or inspiring to the majority.

However, the Republicans can still screw it up if they nominate someone who doesn't offer a clear alternative to the course we are on now as a nation. The last two presidential elections should give the Republicans a clue as to how defeat can be snatched from the jaws of victory.

Presidential elections typically go from Dems to Reps every eight years. The ONLY party that has broken that rule has been the Republican Party and FDR/Truman.

I'm not worried; even the TrumpTARD is better than what the Dems are offering up.

[Tahuyaman]

There's no way I could vote for Trump. If the Republicans nominate him, get prepared for another four to eight years of what we have right now.

[Mark III]

I don't like Trump but he has become a catalyst for change.

People who will support a habitual liar and extreme know nothing for the presidency because they simply want change need to have their heads examined.

[Green Arrow]

I don't like Trump but he has become a catalyst for change.

People who will support a habitual liar and extreme know nothing for the presidency because they simply want change need to have their heads examined.

Why not? People supported Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

[JVV]

I'm not sure what you mean about her being a "throw away" candidate?

I do agree that in 2016 the nomination was supposed to be hers for payback purposes. Payback for getting aced out in 2008. The DNC is run by women who resent the way she got upstaged then.

Trump hasn't splintered anything. The GOP Splintering started a long time ago. It started when they nominated Bob Dole because it was his turn, (sort of like it is today with Hillary Clinton) and was finalized when they nominated Romney and McCain back to back. The conservatives just sat back and lost interest in the Republican Party. If the GOP nominates a solid conservative, the splintering will end.

I believe voter turnout will be in the same range that it has been over the last few election cycles no matter who's nominated.


I agree with parts of what you are saying about when the splintering began and why. And I agree with what you're saying about Democrats looking like they're on the brink of becoming like Republicans in that way -- and thus beginning their own trajectory toward splintering.

However, nominating what the far right would consider a "solid conservative" will not end the splintering.

The GOP is in seriously bad shape. Their moderates are not going to accept someone who passes the "solid conservative" test any more than their far right is going to accept an establishment candidate. No matter who they nominate, a lot of GOP-ers are going to peel off and refuse to vote for that person.

I voted for Romney last time, but I'm beating the rush and have already decided not to vote for any of the GOP candidates.

[MisterVeritis]

I don't like Trump but he has become a catalyst for change.

People who will support a habitual liar and extreme know nothing for the presidency because they simply want change need to have their heads examined.
Were we talking about Obama?

[MisterVeritis]

There's no way I could vote for Trump. If the Republicans nominate him, get prepared for another four to eight years of what we have right now.
Who knew you hated Americans so much?

[ThaiBoxer]

So far the polls show Bernie beating Trump by 13 points, versus Clinton losing to Trump by 3. I don't know how reliable that is, but the idea that Bernie has zero chance of winning the general is completely ignorant of trends and demographics.

Minorities won't choose Trump over Bernie, and if they don't turn out to vote for either one, guess what? There's a whole generation of new voters that Bernie has locked up by 80% or more. Obama won with the minority vote, Bernie can win with the youth vote.

Yep! Bernie is the strongest Democratic candidate! Keep chipping away at Hillary Teatards! Feel the Bern!

[Don]

"Time to take Bernie seriously."

Seriously?

[ThaiBoxer]

There's no way I could vote for Trump.

I think this is the first time I've seen you say something intelligent.

[AeonPax]

I don't like Trump but he has become a catalyst for change. People who will support a habitual liar and extreme know nothing for the presidency because they simply want change need to have their heads examined.
`
However true your statement might be, that's not my real point. Trump is biting the hands that feeds it, and is getting away with it. Love or hate him, he is a maverick, in the true sense of the word. What got him on the charts was the immigration issue that neither party wants to make a campaign issue. I don't agree with his stand but the fact that the issue was even brought up, resonated with voters on the right. Bottom line, he has taken cause with the GOP about their party avoiding issues that are important with their voters.

I don't think the Democratic party realize the significance of a voter revolt, too many liberal/progressives are abandoning Clinton for Sanders. It would be a mistake to assume that if Sanders loses in the primary, his supporters will automatically vote for Hillary.

[PolWatch]

The election hasn't happened yet. What should be still could be. your comment makes it sound like the election was a month ago.

The vast majority believe the country is and has been heading in the wrong direction. Most of those same people believe that we can not continue that same path for the next four to eight years. None of the three Domocrats running are inspiring confidence in that majority that they can change course.

Its an opinion....I think the Trump candidacy has set this election cycle on its ear. I think if the repubs had a candidate that united the party better, they would have won with little competition. They ended up with Trump. My biggest dislike of Trump? He makes the election of Clinton possible, if not likely. I actually like Bernie....he has at been consistent over the years and he is rattling the Clinton cage.

[Dr. Who]

I'd expect Reps to hold onto Congress, so a Rep in the White House could be dangerous.
That may be true, but if the Rep is Trump, how much support will he get from his own party? On the other hand, if they don't choose him, he may run as an independent. That would be really interesting.

[Dr. Who]

The election hasn't happened yet. What should be still could be. your comment makes it sound like the election was a month ago.

The vast majority believe the country is and has been heading in the wrong direction. Most of those same people believe that we can not continue that same path for the next four to eight years. None of the three Domocrats running are inspiring confidence in that majority that they can change course.

I agree that the majority is unhappy with the status quo, however the majority may not be unanimous as to what they want changed. Different demographics may have very disparate ideas as to what is currently wrong, so some of that majority might actually vote left for someone like Sanders who is bound to be more of an isolationist in terms of international military involvement and seems to hate the too big to fail bankers as much as everyone else does.

[birddog]

I think this is the first time I've seen you say something intelligent.

We are still waiting for you to do the same.:grin:

[Tahuyaman]

I agree with parts of what you are saying about when the splintering began and why. And I agree with what you're saying about Democrats looking like they're on the brink of becoming like Republicans in that way -- and thus beginning their own trajectory toward splintering.

However, nominating what the far right would consider a "solid conservative" will not end the splintering.

The GOP is in seriously bad shape. Their moderates are not going to accept someone who passes the "solid conservative" test any more than their far right is going to accept an establishment candidate. No matter who they nominate, a lot of GOP-ers are going to peel off and refuse to vote for that person.

I voted for Romney last time, but I'm beating the rush and have already decided not to vote for any of the GOP candidates.


There is no "far right" as an element of the GOP. You have no idea what a conservative is or isn't.

[Tahuyaman]

Who knew you hated Americans so much?


How do you Figure That?

[Tahuyaman]

I think this is the first time I've seen you say something intelligent.

Please stay off my side. I don't want you agreeing with me on anything.

[Tahuyaman]

Its an opinion....I think the Trump candidacy has set this election cycle on its ear. I think if the repubs had a candidate that united the party better, they would have won with little competition. They ended up with Trump. My biggest dislike of Trump? He makes the election of Clinton possible, if not likely. I actually like Bernie....he has at been consistent over the years and he is rattling the Clinton cage.


You said if the Republicans had a candidate who united the party, they "would have won with little competition". Did they already Lose an election which hasn't happened yet? Has a nominee been chosen?

You said that they "ended up with Trump". When did Trump win the nomination? I must have missed that.

[Tahuyaman]

I agree that the majority is unhappy with the status quo, however the majority may not be unanimous as to what they want changed. Different demographics may have very disparate ideas as to what is currently wrong, so some of that majority might actually vote left for someone like Sanders who is bound to be more of an isolationist in terms of international military involvement and seems to hate the too big to fail bankers as much as everyone else does.

Bernie Sanders has no shot at winning a national election and you know it.

[Dr. Who]

Bernie Sanders has no shot at winning a national election and you know it.
There was a time when I wouldn't have thought so, but this is a highly nonstandard election campaign. I wouldn't have thought that Trump would be remotely acceptable either.

[JVV]

There is no "far right" as an element of the GOP. You have no idea what a conservative is or isn't.


Neither do most so-called conservatives. That's why we get things like Rush saying in 2008 that Romney satisfied all three legs of conservatism but in 2012 panning Romney as not conservative.

That's why conservatives rallied around Huckabee in 2008 when he wasn't a conservative.

That's why Tea Partiers were able to attract a great following by claiming they wanted to focus on fiscally conservative policy but then they lost support because those who were elected by the Tea Party pushed a social agenda instead of a fiscal agenda.

Conservatives can't decide if they want to be socially conservative, fiscally conservative, conservative in the sense of opposing change, conservative in the sense of going back to some previous, more acceptable status, etc. Some see conservatism as one thing and some see it as something completely different. There can be no such thing as a "solid conservative" candidate and if you did find that mythical beast, at least 20% of the GOP would refuse to vote for that person.

[Tahuyaman]

Neither do most so-called conservatives. That's why we get things like Rush saying in 2008 that Romney satisfied all three legs of conservatism but in 2012 panning Romney as not conservative.

That's why conservatives rallied around Huckabee in 2008 when he wasn't a conservative.

That's why Tea Partiers were able to attract a great following by claiming they wanted to focus on fiscally conservative policy but then they lost support because those who were elected by the Tea Party pushed a social agenda instead of a fiscal agenda.

Conservatives can't decide if they want to be socially conservative, fiscally conservative, conservative in the sense of opposing change, conservative in the sense of going back to some previous, more acceptable status, etc. Some see conservatism as one thing and some see it as something completely different. There can be no such thing as a "solid conservative" candidate and if you did find that mythical beast, at least 20% of the GOP would refuse to vote for that person.


Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about.

you just can't make stuff up out of thin air and expect it to be accepted as truth.

[MisterVeritis]

How do you Figure That?
You are willing for the nation to fall under Hillary?

It will be Trump or Cruz. Or maybe Trump/Cruz. So I suppose it does not matter that you are willing to see the nation fall.

[Green Arrow]

Bernie Sanders has no shot at winning a national election and you know it.

That is illogical.

[Tahuyaman]

You are willing for the nation to fall under Hillary? .

No. I'm not willing to vote for Trump when I know he would be a disaster.

[JVV]

Sorry, you don't know what you're talking about.

you just can't make stuff up out of thin air and expect it to be accepted as truth.


Easy answer from you.

I don't really care about the fight about conservatism. I am proof of the damage that the GOP is doing to itself. I was a Republican and now no longer want anything to do with Republicans. I wanted them to be moderate but instead they nominated crazies like Sharon Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Todd Akins, Richard Mourdock, etc.

Going more conservative will lose more voters. The majority will never vote for the kind of person who thinks that it's a good idea to say that a baby from rape is a gift from God.


You guys lost me, and you're going to lose a lot more before your purge of moderate voices is finished.

[Matty]

No. I'm not willing to vote for Trump when I know he would be a disaster.


Glen Beck just told O'Reilly that Trump voted for Obama in 2008. I would like to know who he voted for in 2012.

[Tahuyaman]

Originally Posted by Tahuyaman

Bernie Sanders has no shot at winning a national election and you know it.




That is illogical.

Really? How so?

[Tahuyaman]

Glen Beck just told O'Reilly that Trump voted for Obama in 2008. I would like to know who he voted for in 2012.

Trump waxed eloquently on how Obama was the best choice. Before that he went on and on about how Hiilary Clinton would make a great President. Trump is a buffoon.

[Green Arrow]

Really? How so?

There's no logical reason to think Bernie couldn't win the general election. He's guaranteed between 40 and 45% of the vote automatically just by virtue of being a Democrat, the other 5-10% would be decided by independents. The voting bloc he has wrapped up, the youth vote that goes for Bernie by something like 80%, would put him over the top the same way the minority vote put Barack Obama over the top in 2008 and 2012.

[Tahuyaman]

Easy answer from you.

I don't really care about the fight about conservatism. I am proof of the damage that the GOP is doing to itself. I was a Republican and now no longer want anything to do with Republicans. I wanted them to be moderate but instead they nominated crazies like Sharon Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Todd Akins, Richard Mourdock, etc.

Going more conservative will lose more voters. The majority will never vote for the kind of person who thinks that it's a good idea to say that a baby from rape is a gift from God.


You guys lost me, and you're going to lose a lot more before your purge of moderate voices is finished.

I'm not a Republican. I'm a conservative. You have no idea what conservatives stand for. The Republican party has done it your way for at least the last two presidential elections and lost because of it.

[JVV]

I'm not a Republican. I'm a conservative. You have no idea what conservatives stand for. The Republican party has done it your way for at least the last two presidential elections and lost because of it.


I don't care what you are.

You're making vacuous, contentless posts which I have lost interest in.

Goodbye.

[Tahuyaman]

There's no logical reason to think Bernie couldn't win the general election. He's guaranteed between 40 and 45% of the vote automatically just by virtue of being a Democrat, the other 5-10% would be decided by independents. The voting bloc he has wrapped up, the youth vote that goes for Bernie by something like 80%, would put him over the top the same way the minority vote put Barack Obama over the top in 2008 and 2012.


40% of the vote won't get you to the presidency. I suspect that you didn't know much about Sanders until he started this campaign.

He has no shot nationally and anyone with even half a clue knows that.

[Tahuyaman]

I don't care what you are.

You're making vacuous, contentless posts which I have lost interest in.

Goodbye.


Yes, goodbye. You're clueless.

[Green Arrow]

40% of the vote won't get you to the presidency.

No fucking duh. That's where the 80% of the youth vote and independents comes in. Like I said in the post.

Reading comprehension.

[Tahuyaman]

No $#@!ing duh. That's where the 80% of the youth vote and independents comes in. Like I said in the post.

Reading comprehension.

go %#$& yourself.

[Green Arrow]

go %#$& yourself.

Already did, had a great time. Your turn.

[Tahuyaman]

Already did, had a great time. Your turn.


Do It it again if you have the stamina.

[Dr. Who]

I'm not a Republican. I'm a conservative. You have no idea what conservatives stand for. The Republican party has done it your way for at least the last two presidential elections and lost because of it.
Is there one definitive definition of conservative and do all self-described conservatives adhere to the same definition? I suspect that the answer is no. The GOP purports to represent conservatives, but it is internally divided between moderates, fiscal and social conservatives. As time goes on the distance between the various groups increases. It is presently trying to balance statist social cons, moderates who are essentially statist, but want a little less government intervention and more economic freedom and those who want to strip the government down to its pre-1800 Constitutional mandate. That is a lot of political territory.

[Tahuyaman]

Is there one definitive definition of conservative and do all self-described conservatives adhere to the same definition? I suspect that the answer is no. The GOP purports to represent conservatives, but it is internally divided between moderates, fiscal and social conservatives. As time goes on the distance between the various groups increases. It is presently trying to balance statist social cons, moderates who are essentially statist, but want a little less government intervention and more economic freedom and those who want to strip the government down to its pre-1800 Constitutional mandate. That is a lot of political territory.


People who aren't conservative and disagree with conservative principles somehow always think they know what conservatives are supposed to believe. These non concervatives are always telling conservatives what they need to do in order to win elections.

Conservatives win when they ignore those people and follow their principles.

[JVV]

Is there one definitive definition of conservative and do all self-described conservatives adhere to the same definition? I suspect that the answer is no. The GOP purports to represent conservatives, but it is internally divided between moderates, fiscal and social conservatives. As time goes on the distance between the various groups increases. It is presently trying to balance statist social cons, moderates who are essentially statist, but want a little less government intervention and more economic freedom and those who want to strip the government down to its pre-1800 Constitutional mandate. That is a lot of political territory.


Good question. I was pretty sure he/she wouldn't answer.

[Tahuyaman]

Stupid questions don't deserve an answer.

[Dr. Who]

People who aren't conservative and disagree with conservative principles somehow always think they know what conservatives are supposed to believe. These non concervatives are always telling conservatives what they need to do in order to win elections.

Conservatives win when they ignore those people and follow their principles.
OK, but how do you define conservatism. I am only describing what I see.

[Tahuyaman]

OK, but how do you define conservatism. I am only describing what I see.


Avoid liberally applying the the power of government upon the citizens . Respect and abide by the constitutional limitations placed upon government. Pretty simple actually.

[Tahuyaman]

Liberals can't comprehend the concept of being conservative when imposing the power of government over the citizens.

[Dr. Who]

Stupid questions don't deserve an answer.
Asking whether conservatism has any common political definition is stupid? You describe yourself as a conservative, but what does that mean? I suspect that you are a social conservative, but beyond that I'm not sure where you fit into the political spectrum.

[Tahuyaman]

Asking whether conservatism has any common political definition is stupid?

you know what it means. You just don't get the concept. You can't comprehend limiting the power of government. You believe in the expansion of government power. You just want that power imposed according to your wishes.

[Dr. Who]

Avoid liberally applying the the power of government upon the citizens . Respect and abide by the constitutional limitations placed upon government. Pretty simple actually.
So you then adhere to a combination of both social and constitutional conservatism? More like a socially conservative libertarian?

[Tahuyaman]

So you then adhere to a combination of both social and constitutional conservatism? More like a socially conservative libertarian?


Simple. I believe the Constitution places obstacles in the way of government, not the citizens.

your question is just fluff intended to blur the issue. It's not complicated. Try not to make it so.

[Tahuyaman]

More like a socially conservative libertarian?

all I can do is shake my head at this stuff.

[Dr. Who]

you know what it means. You just don't get the concept. You can't comprehend limiting the power of government. You believe in the expansion of government power. You just want that power imposed according to your wishes.
I get the concept, but I identify it with libertarianism. There are self-described conservatives on this forum who actually have a different definition.

[JVV]

Liberals can't comprehend the concept of being conservative when imposing the power of government over the citizens.


Laughing out loud now at all the legislators trying to limit women's rights to have abortions and access to abortion clinics.

They're imposing the power of government over citizens. So much for them being conservative.




So who exactly is conservative?


Can anyone name five solid conservatives?

Just five.

[Dr. Who]

all I can do is shake my head at this stuff.
I'm just trying to get some understanding of your particular brand of conservatism. You cannot possibly believe that all conservatives hold the same views. We have self-described conservatives on this forum who are really major statists.

[Tahuyaman]

Laughing out loud now at all the legislators trying to limit women's rights to have abortions and access to abortion clinics.

They're imposing the power of government over citizens. So much for them being conservative.




So who exactly is conservative?


Can anyone name five solid conservatives?

Just five.

you have no clue what a conservative is and you demonstrate that more with each response.

[Tahuyaman]

I'm just trying to get some understanding of your particular brand of conservatism. You cannot possibly believe that all conservatives hold the same views. We have self-described conservatives on this forum who are really major statists.


all conservatives believe that the purpose of they US Constitution is to limit government power. All conservatives believe that it is the responsibility of elected officials to govern with that in mind.

Conservatives don't believe the constitution is a living and breathing document which sheds its content at the whim of the current popular culture.

conservatives believe the constitution means the same things it meant when it was first adopted.

[JVV]

you have no clue what a conservative is and you demonstrate that more with each response.


Since I have no clue what a conservative is, please give me the names of five solid conservatives.

Who is a solid conservative whose nomination would stop the GOP from splintering? Who is a solid conservative who could be nominated for president?

Name a total of five solid conservatives who could be nominated for president or some other position of leadership to help get the GOP back on course.

[leekohler2]

Since I have no clue what a conservative is, please give me the names of five solid conservatives.

Who is a solid conservative whose nomination would stop the GOP from splintering? Who is a solid conservative who could be nominated for president?

Name a total of five solid conservatives who could be nominated for president or some other position of leadership to help get the GOP back on course.

I can only name one that I respect- William Buckley. Unfortunately, he's dead. If he were alive now, he'd be horrified.

[Tahuyaman]

Since I have no clue what a conservative is, please give me the names of five solid conservatives.

Who is a solid conservative whose nomination would stop the GOP from splintering? Who is a solid conservative who could be nominated for president?

Name a total of five solid conservatives who could be nominated for president or some other position of leadership to help get the GOP back on course.


what does that have to do with defining what a conservative believes in? You don't know.....

[JVV]

what does that have to do with defining what a conservative believes in? You don't know.....


You said that if the GOP nominated a solid conservative, that would stop the GOP from splintering.

So, who would be a solid conservative?

[Tahuyaman]

You said that if the GOP nominated a solid conservative, that would stop the GOP from splintering

thats right. Nominating liberals poising as conservatives, like they have the last two presidential elections hasn't worked. Has it?

I don't know that there's a solid conservative in the race.

[JVV]

thats right. Nominating liberals poising as conservatives, like they have the last two presidential elections hasn't worked. Has it?

I don't know that there's a solid conservative in the race.


Do you know of any solid conservatives in the country?

This is a totally serious question.

As you say, I don't know what a conservative is. So I'm asking -- who in the whole country would you call a solid conservative?

[Boris The Animal]

Easy answer from you.

I don't really care about the fight about conservatism. I am proof of the damage that the GOP is doing to itself. I was a Republican and now no longer want anything to do with Republicans. I wanted them to be moderate but instead they nominated crazies like Sharon Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Todd Akins, Richard Mourdock, etc.

Going more conservative will lose more voters. The majority will never vote for the kind of person who thinks that it's a good idea to say that a baby from rape is a gift from God.


You guys lost me, and you're going to lose a lot more before your purge of moderate voices is finished.So you'd rather the GOP become just another arm of the Demoturd party, with zero differences whatsoever?

[Boris The Animal]

Do you know of any solid conservatives in the country?

This is a totally serious question.

As you say, I don't know what a conservative is. So I'm asking -- who in the whole country would you call a solid conservative?That's because you are no Conservative. Just another typical Communist Liberal.

[JVV]

So you'd rather the GOP become just another arm of the Demoturd party, with zero differences whatsoever?

It's not my business anymore. The GOP can do whatever it wants. I gave up on them, so I don't have any say anymore.

Good luck to you finding a way back to the White House.

[texan]

uhh bo dont try to pull my leg im not that easy. Most all the left have been all over hillary and defend her everything mightily. NONE of you even spoke of Bernie much at all until recently.

Well green and Bo are exceptions, the rest are rewriting history. Can't wait for exotic and true to jump and claim they were with him the whole time.

[JVV]

That's because you are no Conservative. Just another typical Communist Liberal.


Never claimed to be a Conservative.

Also never claimed to understand Conservatives.

Can't get a straight answer out of anyone about what it means to be a Conservative and who qualifies as one.

I have somewhat conservative family and friends, but as to what a Conservative is .... still searching for someone who can give a straight answer about that, with examples of who qualifies.

If no one can come up with any examples that says a lot about the problems which Conservatism faces.

[Boris The Animal]

It's not my business anymore. The GOP can do whatever it wants. I gave up on them, so I don't have any say anymore.

Good luck to you finding a way back to the White House.The best way is to not nominate RINOs like McStain and Romney.

[Chris]

Conservatism, it has been said, is against ideology.

That excludes most modern so-call conservatives.

[Peter1469]

So you'd rather the GOP become just another arm of the Demoturd party, with zero differences whatsoever?

That was accomplished over a decade ago.

[Boris The Animal]

That was accomplished over a decade ago.Which is why Conservatives need to take the party back.

[Tahuyaman]

Never claimed to be a Conservative.

Also never claimed to understand Conservatives.

Can't get a straight answer out of anyone about what it means to be a Conservative and who qualifies as one.

I have somewhat conservative family and friends, but as to what a Conservative is .... still searching for someone who can give a straight answer about that, with examples of who qualifies.

If no one can come up with any examples that says a lot about the problems which Conservatism faces.

There are several solid conservatives I can point to. Senators Mike Lee, Cruz, Rand paul, Jeff Sessions, Rubio, Tim Scott, James Inhofe, Tom Cotton. There are many more. Especially in the House of Representatives.

Of the Republican candidates for president, Cruz is probably the most conservative, followed by Rand Paul and Marco Rubio and Fiorina.

Rubio would be able to bring conservatives back into the Republican party if he was nominated. Conservatives would not sit-out the election with Rubio as the nominee as they have the last two presidential elections.

[JVV]

There are several solid conservatives I can point to. Senators Mike Lee, Cruz, Rand paul, Jeff Sessions, Rubio, Tim Scott, James Inhofe, Tom Cotton. There are many more. Especially in the House of Representatives.

Of the Republican candidates for president, Cruz is probably the most conservative, followed by Rand Paul and Marco Rubio and Fiorina.

Rubio would be able to bring conservatives back into the Republican party if he was nominated. Conservatives would not sit-out the election with Rubio as the nominee as they have the last two presidential elections.

Thank you.

Does that mean that conservatives would get on board with immigration reform which includes legalization of 12 million undocumented residents AKA illegal aliens?

[Tahuyaman]

Thank you.

Does that mean that conservatives would get on board with immigration reform which includes legalization of 12 million undocumented residents AKA illegal aliens?

I'm sure there's a variety of views on immigration reform within conservative ranks. Conservatives aren't required to be of "one mind" as liberals are.

[Matty]

Thank you.

Does that mean that conservatives would get on board with immigration reform which includes legalization of 12 million undocumented residents AKA illegal aliens?


Why would democrats legalize illegal immigrants? What does that say to those immigrants who abide by American immigration law? It says,doesn't it, that we are in fact not a nation of laws, break our laws and we will reward you for doing so.


Good gawd. What we need is a party that stands up for Americans!

[Tahuyaman]

Why would democrats legalize illegal immigrants?

Pandering for their vote in the future is the first thing that comes to my mind....

[JVV]

Why would democrats legalize illegal immigrants? What does that say to those immigrants who abide by American immigration law? It says,doesn't it, that we are in fact not a nation of laws, break our laws and we will reward you for doing so.


Good gawd. What we need is a party that stands up for Americans!


Rubio supports legalization.

If enough Conservatives rally around Rubio to help him get elected, then Republicans will join with Democrats to make that happen.

Enough Republicans will do it to make the legislation happen because they'll conclude that they have to support their president for political reasons.