PDA

View Full Version : Cruz flip-flops on Snowden



exotix
01-14-2016, 04:23 PM
Just In

CRUZ FLIP-FLOPS ON EDWARD SNOWDEN

http://www.infowars.com/cruz-flip-flops-on-edward-snowden/

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/265889-cruz-flip-flops-on-snowden

“It is now clear that Snowden is a traitor, and he should be tried for treason"


Republican presidential hopeful Ted Cruz on Thursday said National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden is a “traitor” who should be “tried for treason,” shifting away from the praise he expressed for Snowden in 2013.

“It is now clear that Snowden is a traitor, and he should be tried for treason,” Cruz said in a statement to The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/fact-check.html#/factcheck-50).

“Today, we know that Snowden violated federal law, that his actions materially aided terrorists and enemies of the United States, and that he subsequently fled to China and Russia,” he continued.
“Under the Constitution, giving aid to our enemies is treason.”


Cruz struck a different tone when Snowden first went public with classified details about NSA snooping in 2013.

“If it is the case that the federal government is seizing millions of personal records about law-abiding citizens, and if it is the case that there are minimal restrictions on accessing or reviewing those records, then I think Mr. Snowden has done a considerable public service by bringing it to light,” he said at an event hosted by The Blaze (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/11/ted-cruz-reserving-judgement-on-whether-nsa-leaker-is-a-patriot-or-a-traitor/) in 2013.


http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_full/public/article_images/cruztedtwo12102015getty.jpg?itok=isQ98oUd

Safety
01-14-2016, 04:24 PM
Well, it's better late than never to come to your senses. Too bad it took him two years longer than most.

Tahuyaman
01-14-2016, 04:36 PM
If you look at what he said, he didn't change his position. He once said that "if" he did nothing more than expose government misconduct, he performed a public service. I don't know how anyone could disagree with that.

Eveidently he received more evidence and information, so he came to another conclusion.

I don't know exactly what they have on Snowden, but if all he did was expose government corruption and misconduct, I see nothing wrong with that.

exotix
01-14-2016, 04:40 PM
If you look at what he said, he didn't change his position. He once said that "if" he did nothing more than expose government misconduct, he performed a public service. I don't know how anyone could disagree with that.

Eveidently he received more evidence and information, so he came to another conclusion.

I don't know exactly what they have on Snowden, but if all he did was expose government corruption and misconduct, I see nothing wrong with that.Cruz actually believes America wants him to be POTUS Fidel Castro ... so why would Cruz be pro-America ?

The Xl
01-14-2016, 04:46 PM
Well, it's better late than never to come to your senses. Too bad it took him two years longer than most.

Snowden is a traitor for revealing to the public our governments crimes and shortcomings? No.

Safety
01-14-2016, 04:47 PM
Snowden is a traitor for revealing to the public our governments crimes and shortcomings? No.

Not "for", but "how" he went about doing it.

The Xl
01-14-2016, 04:47 PM
Not "for", but "how".
And how would you have had it been done?

Safety
01-14-2016, 04:52 PM
If I believed the information was something citizens didn't already know, I would have released it and stayed. I definitely would not have run to Russia to seek asylum. Didn't he say he would rather be in prison here anyway?

Tahuyaman
01-14-2016, 04:56 PM
Not "for", but "how" he went about doing it.


I dont have access to all the information, but from what I've seen, he did in fact do a public service.

Safety
01-14-2016, 05:02 PM
I dont have access to all the information, but from what I've seen, he did in fact do a public service.

Call me skeptical, but I really didn't need Snowden releasing documents to know the government spies on citizens. How much spying is really needed when most people share every single aspect of their life on social media? Like to use that snazzy gps feature on your smartphone, but the thought that that information is being stored on a server at your carrier, and that it could end up in .gov hands (or anyone tech savvy) is unbelievable?

Remember the Boston bombing? How do you think they were able to find and track the brothers so quickly?

MisterVeritis
01-14-2016, 05:03 PM
Just In

CRUZ FLIP-FLOPS ON EDWARD SNOWDEN

http://www.infowars.com/cruz-flip-flops-on-edward-snowden/

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/265889-cruz-flip-flops-on-snowden

“It is now clear that Snowden is a traitor, and he should be tried for treason"


Republican presidential hopeful Ted Cruz on Thursday said National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden is a “traitor” who should be “tried for treason,” shifting away from the praise he expressed for Snowden in 2013.

“It is now clear that Snowden is a traitor, and he should be tried for treason,” Cruz said in a statement to The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/fact-check.html#/factcheck-50).

“Today, we know that Snowden violated federal law, that his actions materially aided terrorists and enemies of the United States, and that he subsequently fled to China and Russia,” he continued.
“Under the Constitution, giving aid to our enemies is treason.”


Cruz struck a different tone when Snowden first went public with classified details about NSA snooping in 2013.

“If it is the case that the federal government is seizing millions of personal records about law-abiding citizens, and if it is the case that there are minimal restrictions on accessing or reviewing those records, then I think Mr. Snowden has done a considerable public service by bringing it to light,” he said at an event hosted by The Blaze (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/11/ted-cruz-reserving-judgement-on-whether-nsa-leaker-is-a-patriot-or-a-traitor/) in 2013.


http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_full/public/article_images/cruztedtwo12102015getty.jpg?itok=isQ98oUd
I support the earlier Cruz.

Tahuyaman
01-14-2016, 05:18 PM
Call me skeptical, but I really didn't need Snowden releasing documents to know the government spies on citizens. How much spying is really needed when most people share every single aspect of their life on social media? Like to use that snazzy gps feature on your smartphone, but the thought that that information is being stored on a server at your carrier, and that it could end up in .gov hands (or anyone tech savvy) is unbelievable?

Remember the Boston bombing? How do you think they were able to find and track the brothers so quickly?

Im sure that government eavesdropped on the American people can benefit public safety. I'm quite sure yet how much privacy I'm willing to give up in the name of public safety.

Monitoring public social media media is different that prying into every detail of ones life. If I put the info out there, it's fair game for anyone to intercept.

texan
01-14-2016, 05:18 PM
Just In

CRUZ FLIP-FLOPS ON EDWARD SNOWDEN

http://www.infowars.com/cruz-flip-flops-on-edward-snowden/

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/265889-cruz-flip-flops-on-snowden

“It is now clear that Snowden is a traitor, and he should be tried for treason"


Republican presidential hopeful Ted Cruz on Thursday said National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden is a “traitor” who should be “tried for treason,” shifting away from the praise he expressed for Snowden in 2013.

“It is now clear that Snowden is a traitor, and he should be tried for treason,” Cruz said in a statement to The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/fact-check.html#/factcheck-50).

“Today, we know that Snowden violated federal law, that his actions materially aided terrorists and enemies of the United States, and that he subsequently fled to China and Russia,” he continued.
“Under the Constitution, giving aid to our enemies is treason.”


Cruz struck a different tone when Snowden first went public with classified details about NSA snooping in 2013.

“If it is the case that the federal government is seizing millions of personal records about law-abiding citizens, and if it is the case that there are minimal restrictions on accessing or reviewing those records, then I think Mr. Snowden has done a considerable public service by bringing it to light,” he said at an event hosted by The Blaze (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/11/ted-cruz-reserving-judgement-on-whether-nsa-leaker-is-a-patriot-or-a-traitor/) in 2013.


http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_full/public/article_images/cruztedtwo12102015getty.jpg?itok=isQ98oUd

The only people that are seeing a big problem here are those looking for something.

I really don't see a big deal or a "Flip Flop." BTW key word "If" this is the case.............. Followed up with we know now that it wasn't......

Good lord people will you all be lead around by the noses forever? Think for yourself.

texan
01-14-2016, 05:35 PM
Especially think before your puppeteer handlers have you cutting and pasting this kind of stuff.

You should be more Joyful yourself.

Safety
01-14-2016, 05:36 PM
Im sure that government eavesdropped on the American people can benefit public safety. I'm quite sure yet how much privacy I'm willing to give up in the name of public safety.

Monitoring public social media media is different that prying into every detail of ones life. If I put the info out there, it's fair game for anyone to intercept.

Internet data (Google, yahoo, Bing, etc.), cell phone records (Verizon, et.al.), NSA spying on other countries and world leaders, are the top three revelations Snowden uncovered. Sorry, but I didn't need Snowden telling me that was happening.

exotix
01-14-2016, 06:07 PM
Especially think before your puppeteer handlers have you cutting and pasting this kind of stuff.

You should be more Joyful yourself.http://i64.tinypic.com/2ciagqd.gif


http://i64.tinypic.com/2rqp17d.png


Snowden appears at a Ted Cruz event

http://thefederalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/snowden-998x711.jpg

Green Arrow
01-14-2016, 06:19 PM
If I believed the information was something citizens didn't already know, I would have released it and stayed. I definitely would not have run to Russia to seek asylum. Didn't he say he would rather be in prison here anyway?

Given how our government gave itself the right to indefinitely detain or assassinate American citizens without trial, can you really blame him? Staying doesn't mean what it used to in the Martin Luther King days, now civil disobedience gets you dead or tortured and locked in a dark hole for the rest of your life.

Green Arrow
01-14-2016, 06:20 PM
Anyway, keep in mind I've been saying that Ted Cruz is a fake ass motherfucker since he first came on the scene with his executive-at-Goldman-Sachs wife, flip-flops like this only confirm that.

donttread
01-14-2016, 06:21 PM
Just In

CRUZ FLIP-FLOPS ON EDWARD SNOWDEN

http://www.infowars.com/cruz-flip-flops-on-edward-snowden/

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/265889-cruz-flip-flops-on-snowden

“It is now clear that Snowden is a traitor, and he should be tried for treason"


Republican presidential hopeful Ted Cruz on Thursday said National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden is a “traitor” who should be “tried for treason,” shifting away from the praise he expressed for Snowden in 2013.

“It is now clear that Snowden is a traitor, and he should be tried for treason,” Cruz said in a statement to The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/fact-check.html#/factcheck-50).

“Today, we know that Snowden violated federal law, that his actions materially aided terrorists and enemies of the United States, and that he subsequently fled to China and Russia,” he continued.
“Under the Constitution, giving aid to our enemies is treason.”


Cruz struck a different tone when Snowden first went public with classified details about NSA snooping in 2013.

“If it is the case that the federal government is seizing millions of personal records about law-abiding citizens, and if it is the case that there are minimal restrictions on accessing or reviewing those records, then I think Mr. Snowden has done a considerable public service by bringing it to light,” he said at an event hosted by The Blaze (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/11/ted-cruz-reserving-judgement-on-whether-nsa-leaker-is-a-patriot-or-a-traitor/) in 2013.


http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_full/public/article_images/cruztedtwo12102015getty.jpg?itok=isQ98oUd

Treason? For aiding and abetting the American citizens?

Green Arrow
01-14-2016, 06:23 PM
Internet data (Google, yahoo, Bing, etc.), cell phone records (Verizon, et.al.), NSA spying on other countries and world leaders, are the top three revelations Snowden uncovered. Sorry, but I didn't need Snowden telling me that was happening.

The point wasn't to reveal that it was happening. Any conspiracy theorist in a tin foil hat knew it was happening, it's just what governments do and have always done even back in the days when they spied with a guy on a horse listening in windows.

What he revealed, the important part, is the extent to which they were doing it.

Safety
01-14-2016, 06:24 PM
Given how our government gave itself the right to indefinitely detain or assassinate American citizens without trial, can you really blame him? Staying doesn't mean what it used to in the Martin Luther King days, now civil disobedience gets you dead or tortured and locked in a dark hole for the rest of your life.

Yea, there's that also. I guess I'm just not blown away with what he released, now if it was information about the Americans falsely accused of terrorism and being detained or killed without due process, then I would be in his corner.

Safety
01-14-2016, 06:25 PM
The point wasn't to reveal that it was happening. Any conspiracy theorist in a tin foil hat knew it was happening, it's just what governments do and have always done even back in the days when they spied with a guy on a horse listening in windows.

What he revealed, the important part, is the extent to which they were doing it.

Fair point.

Peter1469
01-14-2016, 07:40 PM
Has he flipped on gay marriage yet?


1. Obama in 1996: “I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages.”
2. Obama in 2004: “My religious faith dictates marriage is between a man and a woman, gay marriage is not a civil right.”
3. Obama in 2008: “I believe marriage is the union between a man and a woman. As a Christian it’s also a sacred union.” (was this where he said Muslim and a "reporter" corrected him- you mean Christian?)
4. Obama in 2008: “I support civil unions.”
5. Obama in 2010: “My feelings about [same-sex marriage] are constantly evolving. I struggle with this.”
6. Obama in 2011: “I’m still working on [my views on same-sex marriage].”
7. Obama in 2012: “At a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me, personally, it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married.”
8. Obama in 2013: “The laws of our land are catching up to the fundamental truth that millions of Americans hold in our hearts.”



Link (http://8. Obama in 2013: “The laws of our land are catching up to the fundamental truth that millions of Americans hold in our hearts.”)

del
01-14-2016, 07:43 PM
are you proposing?

Subdermal
01-14-2016, 07:46 PM
Anyway, keep in mind I've been saying that Ted Cruz is a fake ass $#@! since he first came on the scene with his executive-at-Goldman-Sachs wife, flip-flops like this only confirm that.

Garbage in; garbage out.

Don't eat garbage.

This is not a flip-flop; it was never anything other than 100% consistent. Snowden's exposure of Government abuse did the public a service; making them more aware of abuse of power, which is rampant.

However, that is not where Snowden stopped. Apparently, he allowed highly classified intel to get into the hands of Russia and China, and that's treason.

Those who are not limited by the binary mind of an intellectually limited leftist have the ability to understand positions which require more space than a bumper sticker.

Green Arrow
01-14-2016, 07:51 PM
Garbage in; garbage out.

Don't eat garbage.

This is not a flip-flop; it was never anything other than 100% consistent. Snowden's exposure of Government abuse did the public a service; making them more aware of abuse of power, which is rampant.

However, that is not where Snowden stopped. Apparently, he allowed highly classified intel to get into the hands of Russia and China, and that's treason.

Those who are not limited by the binary mind of an intellectually limited leftist have the ability to understand positions which require more space than a bumper sticker.

Just curious, but do you ever just ask someone what they believe about an issue or person, or do you always just make unfounded assumptions?

Subdermal
01-14-2016, 07:56 PM
Just curious, but do you ever just ask someone what they believe about an issue or person, or do you always just make unfounded assumptions?

It's unfounded to both take issue with your characterization of Ted Cruz - who by every measure is a good man and a highly accomplished American - and your attempt to further smear him by using pedantic leftist brain farting?

Let's be clear. What we're having isn't a dialogue. It's a smack down. I already know who you are and what you believe.

Green Arrow
01-14-2016, 08:03 PM
It's unfounded to both take issue with your characterization of Ted Cruz - who by every measure is a good man and a highly accomplished American - and your attempt to further smear him by using pedantic leftist brain farting?

Let's be clear. What we're having isn't a dialogue. It's a smack down. I already know who you are and what you believe.

Somehow, I seriously doubt that, but please, by all means, show me what you know. Tell me who I am and what I believe. Do be specific.

The Xl
01-14-2016, 08:25 PM
If I believed the information was something citizens didn't already know, I would have released it and stayed. I definitely would not have run to Russia to seek asylum. Didn't he say he would rather be in prison here anyway?

You're acting like they wouldn't have prosecuted him harshly, right or wrong.

Safety
01-14-2016, 08:29 PM
You're acting like they wouldn't have prosecuted him harshly, right or wrong.

No, I believe they probably would have prosecuted him, but I would have more respect for him doing so, seeing how he is willing to stand by his convictions, rather than running to Russia and giving the information to them.

The Xl
01-14-2016, 08:31 PM
Cruz is a fake, slimy piece of garbage. A flip flop of this magnitude should do him in, but we live in an era where an establishment criminal is the presidential frontrunner, so I'm sure this won't hurt him.

donttread
01-14-2016, 08:32 PM
Garbage in; garbage out.

Don't eat garbage.

This is not a flip-flop; it was never anything other than 100% consistent. Snowden's exposure of Government abuse did the public a service; making them more aware of abuse of power, which is rampant.

However, that is not where Snowden stopped. Apparently, he allowed highly classified intel to get into the hands of Russia and China, and that's treason.

Those who are not limited by the binary mind of an intellectually limited leftist have the ability to understand positions which require more space than a bumper sticker.

What highly classified information? The fact that our government spies on us. Besides , it would be insane to believe anything the very people who were spying on us without our knowledge claimed the whistle blower had done

Green Arrow
01-14-2016, 08:33 PM
I just look at it from my perspective. Given the facts I mentioned before, that the U.S. government gave itself the authority to indefinitely detain and assassinate American citizens with due process, no, I wouldn't stick around after doing it, I'd take my family and move somewhere friendly ("friendly" meaning "won't give me back to the U.S. government) like Russia. Not for me, but for my family.

If staying put just meant getting put in jail for a few months or a year or so, yeah, I'd stay. But throw in indefinite detention, torture, and assassination without trial? Hell no. Given that al-Awlaki's 16 year old son got murdered too, I wouldn't even be confident they wouldn't go after my family too.

The Xl
01-14-2016, 08:34 PM
No, I believe they probably would have prosecuted him, but I would have more respect for him doing so, seeing how he is willing to stand by his convictions, rather than running to Russia and giving the information to them.
That's putting a lot of trust in the integrity of our government. He'd be playing a deadly game there.

Safety
01-14-2016, 09:12 PM
That's putting a lot of trust in the integrity of our government. He'd be playing a deadly game there.

Of course, we are talking about our government. Still, in my opinion, it would show that he was willing to make the sacrifice and that it was worth whatever punishment it warranted. In retrospect, what has changed with the information that was released? Was there really an expectation of privacy of information a person shares without knowing the hands it passes through? When I use my phone to make a call, it goes through many cell towers that I have no control over, through network switches that I have no control over, and through servers that I don't see nor can access physically. So, I don't do anything that would require confidentiality over wireless or Internet. I place little trust over things I don't have absolute control over.

I remember my parents speaking about using "party lines" before the telephone system evolved to a semi-private system. Basically, you just picked up the phone and there would be people talking and you had to wait until the line was clear before you could place or receive a call. People could listen to your conversation and vise-versa. You learned not to say anything over the phone that you didn't want to become public knowledge.

MisterVeritis
01-14-2016, 09:16 PM
Garbage in; garbage out.

Don't eat garbage.

This is not a flip-flop; it was never anything other than 100% consistent. Snowden's exposure of Government abuse did the public a service; making them more aware of abuse of power, which is rampant.

However, that is not where Snowden stopped. Apparently, he allowed highly classified intel to get into the hands of Russia and China, and that's treason.

Those who are not limited by the binary mind of an intellectually limited leftist have the ability to understand positions which require more space than a bumper sticker.
It is not treason. It is espionage. We are not at war with Russia or China.

MisterVeritis
01-14-2016, 09:19 PM
What highly classified information? The fact that our government spies on us. Besides , it would be insane to believe anything the very people who were spying on us without our knowledge claimed the whistle blower had done
What is classified is that we no longer have Constitutional protections to prevent the government from spying upon us. What is amazing is how many people shrug their shoulders and say, "oh well."

Green Arrow
01-15-2016, 12:09 AM
It's unfounded to both take issue with your characterization of Ted Cruz - who by every measure is a good man and a highly accomplished American - and your attempt to further smear him by using pedantic leftist brain farting?

Let's be clear. What we're having isn't a dialogue. It's a smack down. I already know who you are and what you believe.


Somehow, I seriously doubt that, but please, by all means, show me what you know. Tell me who I am and what I believe. Do be specific.
Subdermal, afraid to answer the question?

Subdermal
01-15-2016, 12:12 AM
@Subdermal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1758), afraid to answer the question?

Don't confuse fear with inattention. I didn't notice your question. On what issue do you wish to know what to think?

Common
01-15-2016, 12:17 AM
Cruz doesnt mean it, he said right before the campaign started he would change his old ways tp create a new image. This is all part of it. I cant stomach ted cruz

Green Arrow
01-15-2016, 12:33 AM
Don't confuse fear with inattention. I didn't notice your question. On what issue do you wish to know what to think?

Any. Just start naming what it is you think my positions are on the issues.

Green Arrow
01-16-2016, 01:20 AM
Any. Just start naming what it is you think my positions are on the issues.
Subdermal

Subdermal
01-16-2016, 10:22 AM
@Subdermal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1758)

You think you're that cryptic? Do you pride yourself on being all over the map or something?

Your views are all over the map, but in them, the psychosis of the owner becomes apparent - just like your sexuality. In fact, you may suffer a form of multiple personality disorder.

You have strong geoist libertarian tendencies. I disagree with the geoist.

You have strong socialist tendencies, but not the Marxist version - because you hate welfare - more the anarchist version. You like to talk in flowery jargon to attempt to express exactly what this socialism of yours is, but you instead convolute the issue, because you yourself are convoluted. You want to be self-sufficient, and you want everyone else to be as well - but you think unions are just fine, and believe in government economic interventionism.

You are constantly in self-conflict between the rights of an employer and the rights of an employee. You don't mind Government controlling things like wage rates, for instance - which is asinine, and completely in conflict with your libertarian streak. You seem unable to comprehend that a government strong enough to implement wage controls is powerful enough to know everything about you - and will, because that is the essence of human nature when put in a position of unfettered power.

You think if you live your life based upon your own morality - and so does everyone else - things will work out nicely.

You laud progressives while bashing progressives. You think they made America an economic powerhouse while simultaneously blaming FDR - the figurehead of progressives - for screwing America up.

You love discussions involving capitalization of terms (like socialist v Socialist; Progressive v progressive) because you think it makes you seem smart. You think no one expresses an intelligent opinion on what 'socialism' is except perhaps you, and erudite and remote thinkers, who have never implemented any form of it.

You are young, weird and extremely c0cky: you have a very high opinion of your intelligence, without being aware of the conflicts implementation of your ideology creates when faced with human nature. A world full of just you would be equal parts orgy and bloodbath.

It's why you cannot abide someone like Ted Cruz, when Ted Cruz is not your ideological enemy. His Constitutionalist States Rights principles would allow you find your little whacky out-of-the-way State so that your weirdness would not infect the rest of America. By choice.

exotix
01-16-2016, 10:42 AM
You think you're that cryptic? Do you pride yourself on being all over the map or something?

Your views are all over the map, but in them, the psychosis of the owner becomes apparent - just like your sexuality. In fact, you may suffer a form of multiple personality disorder.

You have strong geoist libertarian tendencies. I disagree with the geoist.

You have strong socialist tendencies, but not the Marxist version - because you hate welfare - more the anarchist version. You like to talk in flowery jargon to attempt to express exactly what this socialism of yours is, but you instead convolute the issue, because you yourself are convoluted. You want to be self-sufficient, and you want everyone else to be as well - but you think unions are just fine, and believe in government economic interventionism.

You are constantly in self-conflict between the rights of an employer and the rights of an employee. You don't mind Government controlling things like wage rates, for instance - which is asinine, and completely in conflict with your libertarian streak. You seem unable to comprehend that a government strong enough to implement wage controls is powerful enough to know everything about you - and will, because that is the essence of human nature when put in a position of unfettered power.

You think if you live your life based upon your own morality - and so does everyone else - things will work out nicely.

You laud progressives while bashing progressives. You think they made America an economic powerhouse while simultaneously blaming FDR - the figurehead of progressives - for screwing America up.

You love discussions involving capitalization of terms (like socialist v Socialist; Progressive v progressive) because you think it makes you seem smart. You think no one expresses an intelligent opinion on what 'socialism' is except perhaps you, and erudite and remote thinkers, who have never implemented any form of it.

You are young, weird and extremely c0cky: you have a very high opinion of your intelligence, without being aware of the conflicts implementation of your ideology creates when faced with human nature. A world full of just you would be equal parts orgy and bloodbath.

It's why you cannot abide someone like Ted Cruz, when Ted Cruz is not your ideological enemy.

His Constitutionalist States Rights principles would allow you find your little whacky out-of-the-way State so that your weirdness would not infect the rest of America. By choice.

You were doing alright until you got to the bolded ... kissing the ass of a foreign-born high-treason traitor because he used our education system to study our laws and claims to be a constitutionalist then use it against us ... well, you're wacked.

Green Arrow
01-16-2016, 12:24 PM
You think you're that cryptic? Do you pride yourself on being all over the map or something?

I do pride myself on being a free-thinking individual, actually, yeah.


Your views are all over the map, but in them, the psychosis of the owner becomes apparent - just like your sexuality. In fact, you may suffer a form of multiple personality disorder.

Well, you're wrong. Depression is the only real mental disorder I suffer from and that demon I have mostly defeated.


You have strong geoist libertarian tendencies. I disagree with the geoist.

Geoism is not libertarian, there are probably more libertarians that disagree with Geoism than there are libertarians that agree with Geoism and Henry George himself was a progressive, not a libertarian. Other than Geoism and my position on social issues there is almost nothing libertarian about me.


You have strong socialist tendencies, but not the Marxist version - because you hate welfare - more the anarchist version.

I don't hate welfare, I just don't like what welfare has become. I believe we should have a strong, robust system of social welfare and have ideas on how to get it there, but the current system is not an appropriate welfare system.


You like to talk in flowery jargon to attempt to express exactly what this socialism of yours is, but you instead convolute the issue, because you yourself are convoluted. You want to be self-sufficient, and you want everyone else to be as well - but you think unions are just fine, and believe in government economic interventionism.

I don't think it's convoluted at all. I've been very specific in my answers when asked questions about socialism. Also, I disagree that unions and self-sufficiency are mutually exclusive. Unions are a tool to help workers achieve better self-sufficiency by improving their working environment and the amount of money they get to take home. I also believe in fairly limited and targeted government intervention in the economy, rather than just a blanket "government economic interventionism." That implies that I support any and all government economic interventionism, which is not true.


You are constantly in self-conflict between the rights of an employer and the rights of an employee. You don't mind Government controlling things like wage rates, for instance - which is asinine, and completely in conflict with your libertarian streak. You seem unable to comprehend that a government strong enough to implement wage controls is powerful enough to know everything about you - and will, because that is the essence of human nature when put in a position of unfettered power.

I assume you're referring to the minimum wage? I don't believe the federal government should be establishing a minimum wage anywhere but in D.C., I believe state governments AT MOST should establish a minimum wage, but I would much prefer local municipalities establish a minimum wage because they know better than anyone, even their state governments, what is an appropriate wage for their municipality.

I also have never advocated "unfettered power" for any government, even local governments, so that's incorrect.


You think if you live your life based upon your own morality - and so does everyone else - things will work out nicely.

That is incorrect. I don't believe morality is relative, at least to a certain degree. Virtually every religion on the planet, no matter how different, agrees on a central set of moral principles, which is fairly well-encapsulated in the Ten Commandments: don't murder, steal, lie, cheat, covet, honor your elders, etc. I do think that if everyone lived by those universal moral principles that, yeah, things would work out nicely. That's why G-d gave them to us.


You laud progressives while bashing progressives. You think they made America an economic powerhouse while simultaneously blaming FDR - the figurehead of progressives - for screwing America up.

I laud classical progressives. Modern progressives, in my view, have distorted the intent and methods of classical progressivism and have largely created their own neo-progressive ideology independent from classical progressivism. It's not unlike how neo-conservatives have twisted and distorted conservatism into a new, independent ideology, for example.

And I don't really blame FDR for screwing America up. He had a hand in it and largely began the division in progressivism from classical progressives to neo-progressives, but every president has done something that aided in the decline of America, mostly unintentionally.


You love discussions involving capitalization of terms (like socialist v Socialist; Progressive v progressive) because you think it makes you seem smart. You think no one expresses an intelligent opinion on what 'socialism' is except perhaps you, and erudite and remote thinkers, who have never implemented any form of it.

I think you're confusing me and Chris, Chris is the one that constantly talks about capitalization of terms. I don't care if you call yourself a Libertarian or libertarian, if you don't advocate libertarian principles I'm going to call you out on it. Same if you call yourself a Conservative or a conservative, a Liberal or a liberal, a socialist or a Socialist.

I'm also not sure when I promoted an "erudite and remote thinker" who has never implemented any form of socialism. I have most frequently talked about men like Charles Fourier, who did implement a form of socialism in the form of his Phalansteres.


You are young, weird and extremely c0cky: you have a very high opinion of your intelligence, without being aware of the conflicts implementation of your ideology creates when faced with human nature. A world full of just you would be equal parts orgy and bloodbath.

I am very aware of it, actually, and they are problems I have been working to fix for five years. Some I have found answers to, others I'm still working on.


It's why you cannot abide someone like Ted Cruz, when Ted Cruz is not your ideological enemy. His Constitutionalist States Rights principles would allow you find your little whacky out-of-the-way State so that your weirdness would not infect the rest of America. By choice.

Actually, I cannot abide Ted Cruz because he is a phony. I very strongly support others who advocate the same states rights message he does, like Rand Paul, because they are not phony. If Ted Cruz was not a phony, I would be more inclined to support him. But, alas, he is a phony.

Chris
01-16-2016, 12:27 PM
Uppercase Libertarian refers to a political party. Lowercase libertarian refers to a political principle. You could say I am a Libertarian but not a libertarian--I am libertarian.

donttread
01-16-2016, 12:28 PM
What is classified is that we no longer have Constitutional protections to prevent the government from spying upon us. What is amazing is how many people shrug their shoulders and say, "oh well."

Not people, sheep. No other way to describe them

donttread
01-16-2016, 12:31 PM
Yea, there's that also. I guess I'm just not blown away with what he released, now if it was information about the Americans falsely accused of terrorism and being detained or killed without due process, then I would be in his corner.

Well if he'd stayed here he'd be one of those people

TrueBlue
01-16-2016, 12:33 PM
You know, when you're not currently on the very top of the ticket at this point in the game you have to wet your finger and start placing it up to the wind to see in which direction it is blowing and then go with that. Flip-flopper Cruz is showing his true colors now.

valley ranch
01-16-2016, 12:35 PM
Greeting, There is another thread on the forum regarding NERDS. Snowden is a bit of a nerd and a heroic fellow into the bargain.

Up with Snowden, bring him home.






Hilarious is free!

Chris
01-16-2016, 12:48 PM
You know, when you're not currently on the very top of the ticket at this point in the game you have to wet your finger and start placing it up to the wind to see in which direction it is blowing and then go with that. Flip-flopper Cruz is showing his true colors now.

That was Bill Clinton's strategy. He was good at it.

TrueBlue
01-16-2016, 12:55 PM
That was Bill Clinton's strategy. He was good at it.
Difference is Clinton won TWICE, Cruz doesn't stand a prayer of a chance even once. :)

donttread
01-16-2016, 01:40 PM
Im sure that government eavesdropped on the American people can benefit public safety. I'm quite sure yet how much privacy I'm willing to give up in the name of public safety.

Monitoring public social media media is different that prying into every detail of ones life. If I put the info out there, it's fair game for anyone to intercept.


Those trade freedom for security wind up with neither

Tahuyaman
01-16-2016, 01:47 PM
Those trade freedom for security wind up with neither


And thats why I say I'm not sure how much privacy I am willing to sacrifice in the name of security.

government can always make a reasonable and rational argument for taking away more of our liberties or invading our privacy.