American Conservatives are Embarrassing

[midcan5]

"By an accident of birth, I fall into the White Guy category. To keep this on a positive note, let’s call it my brand. And that means that if other people with my outward characteristics do dumb-ass things, it reflects on my brand." Scott Adams


White conservative Americans have become an embarrassment. I know that's not politically correct, but face it folks we are starting to look like a nation of idiots. Think about that for a minute. Our white conservative Congress is voting again to repeal healthcare, you know healthcare that is slavery. Texas Governor Greg Abbott wants to make America Somalia, no need to obey federal laws - articles of Confederation redux. Kansas Governor Brownback bought into the insane idea idea that reducing taxes brings forth magic. Now the state is a mess. Kansas is just one state run by a white conservative republican. Was Brownback alive in 2008 and 2009 or was he lost in some imaginary supply side universe. Laffer is so appropriate a name.


What's the matter with white America is the question of the day. Recently a group of white militia conservatives took over a garage sized nature center in Oregon because they have the mental acuity of a spoiled five year old. Give children guns and they soon think they are warriors. Reminds you of a five year old who won't come in for dinner. One wonders what the idiots will do when tourist season arrives, maybe they'll give 'take over nation' demonstrations one garage at a time. If another American had asked for this land it would be welfare, how is it America belongs to the select few white Americans? The nation's Indians should tell them they're way late.


Then we have Maine Governor Paul LePage, of course everyone knows racism is alive and well in America, that is except white Americans, they think they are colorblind, try really hard to forget their narratives. Didn't a Marxist Kenyan president change all that. One can only wonder at the level of insanity when a woman becomes president. She is white, will that help? Are you kidding me. Anyone watch the Benghazi hearing. If hate required a face there were plenty of opportunities. Can you spell just plan nuts. And Deez even got some votes.


Anyone watching the republican debates would marvel at the level of dialogue, when it isn't the same reduce taxes on corporations and the wealthy and the economic genie will appear, they are upping each other like some chest pumping pretend wrestler, bomb em all. Bomb em all, bomb em all, is it fear, paranoia, everything has become Munich. Have any of them served in the military, had they maybe a rational thought would arrive.


Have you seen the crowds at Trump rallies, cheering the blond platitude, an inherited real-estate developer, now the darling of white conservative America. Trump engages in so much hyperbole, historians and sane media journalists now require therapy. While Nazi references are badly overused by these conservative republicans, recently a Muslim woman stood up and was escorted to door, that wasn't the proper sign of allegiance to a mountebank wearing a trite slogan. Remember the Gay soldier. Booing in this crowd is a substitute for thought.


And this comedy of white conservative sloganeering would just be funny until someone like Governor Rick Snyder poisons the people of Flint, Michigan to save a buck. Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker isn't just dumb, he wants all the citizens of Wisconsin on an equal level. Why fund education when anyone who isn't as extreme as you is just not conservative enough. How many teachers does Governor Rick Perry want to fire, he can't remember that either. And then there is Rick Scott. Any need to go on.


Have you noticed none of the republican governors support education. This would be funny until you look at the warriors in Oregon, or the tea party signs to keep government out of their medicare, or poisoned water, add tornadoes and floods which only matter if you happen to be in one. Education is power, it is feared by the powerful for it focuses attention on cause rather than aimless finger pointing. Pay close attention to Governors and candidates who listen the likes of the Koch brothers or Sheldon Adelson.


"If we held the White House, taxes would be lower, spending slowed and the military strengthened...." Governor Nikki R. Haley of South Carolina responds to the SOTU. She forgot 'freedom.' If a listener read history they know how often these same words are used, and they'd know too how meaningless they are. Can you spell voodoo or oligarchy.


Idiocy mixed with fear is so dangerous a mindset, anyone find those WMDs or witness the wonderful spread of democracy in the Middle East? If you have, let the rest of America know. So long as big money buffoons, corporate lobbies, think tanks that do anything but think exist, militiamen armed with AK15s isn't a reality show, it is reality.


It would give solace to the sane American if after President Obama's term, sanity in America returned, but given the House under 'missing a heart Ryan' is still voting to end slavery, aka healthcare, no hope is in sight. It has to be clear now, elect a conservative white governor and your state gets dumber, you lose healthcare, your environment is polluted, and your state goes into massive debt. All the while they throw out, weakness, appeasement, surrender, Chamberlain, again and again, is there any hope white America.

If anyone has an idea on how sane white Americans, who still believe in a land of promise, inclusion, fairness, and accomplishment can separate themselves from dumb white America. Please, please let America know. By the way, suggested forehead tattoos, would help but people do occasionally change. Imagine for a minute the Donald's audience cheering bigotry, slogans waving, 'make America great again', Palin rambling, dissenting Americans booed, and you witness the absurd theater white conservative republicans have created. And so it goes....


Source Information:


http://blog.dilbert.com/post/136879450111/working-on-the-white-guy-brand
http://www.alternet.org/story/150392/the_8_worst_governors_in_america
http://www.salon.com/2016/01/14/thank_you_oregon_militiamen_the_longer_you_stay_th e_more_ridiculous_you_and_the_conservative_movemen t_look/
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/156038
https://aeon.co/opinions/why-bullshit-is-no-laughing-matter




Reading


'Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class' by Ian Haney López
'The Rhetoric of Reaction: Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy' Albert O. Hirschman
'Invisible Hands: The Businessmen's Crusade Against the New Deal' Kim Phillips-Fein
'It's Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided With the New Politics of Extremism' by Thomas E. Mann, Norman J. Ornstein
'Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong' by James W. Loewen
'Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free' by Charles P. Pierce
'Liberty Under Siege: American Politics, 1976-1988' by Walter Karp
'Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming' by Naomi Oreskes, Erik M. M. Conway
'American High: The Years of Confidence, 1945-1960' by William L. O'Neill
'A Bubble in Time: America During the Interwar Years, 1989-2001' by William L. O'Neill
'Coming Apart: An Informal History of America in the 1960s' by William L. O'Neill


'The American conservative has become a sort of trained bumpkin, they outsource their work and pay them nothing and he unconsciously blames government when she doesn't blame some racial or ethnic group. Years of training have made them puppets. One could say corporate puppets, the corporations play them like children. Has the conservative always been this naive a tool of others? Maybe they have, for power knows all you need to do is have an enemy to occupy them. When it isn't government it's progress, or for some conservatives it's another human being of difference. I guess when one's mind is empty of education or history, it gives comfort to know satan caused all that is wrong. Satan can be whatever the powers that be tell them. No need to name names' mc5


And I give you this idiot to add to the point. http://www.sltrib.com/home/3441922-155/story.html

[Common]

Im only going to address your first paragraph. I am 68 never before in my lifetime have the men that I talk to in various places from the computer shop I work in, to the VFW the American Legion, Moose and Elks all seem to have one thought. They are tired of being blamed for everything. They are tired of being blamed for everything black, hispanic and all the woes of women and everyone else. Most of these guys worked all their lives, they werent born with a gold spoon sticking out of their ass. They worked and worked hard and do not feel they have taken anything from ANYONE. They believe in their lifetime they have not tried to HURT anyone and they are tired of hearing they are the evil empire because they just happened to be born white.
These arent just conservative men, many are traditional democrats and have been for decades. That is whats driving this far right intensity. I am not a conservative nor a liberal a democrat nor a republican.

I follow my instincts and I pick and choose which issues I am for and against.

I started voting when I turned 21 and never missed a beat since. I have been voting for 47 yrs. Never have I been more disgusted with both parties candidates.

Hillary is a phony a liar and as decietful as it gets. She does NOT deserve to have the honor to be the first woman Potus. Trump is phony a fraud a liar and sleezy confidence man. Ted Cruz is the most dispicable lieing phony skank in recent politics. Bernie Sanders is a far left socialist.

They are the leaders and on the right I cant stand the two behind trump and cruz. I am very much considering sitting this election out and it will be the FIRST time in my life.

I have nothing to lose or gain. I am financially comfortable even if they took my social security.

[kilgram]

Im only going to address your first paragraph. I am 68 never before in my lifetime have the men that I talk to in various places from the computer shop I work in, to the VFW the American Legion, Moose and Elks all seem to have one thought. They are tired of being blamed for everything. They are tired of being blamed for everything black, hispanic and all the woes of women and everyone else. Most of these guys worked all their lives, they werent born with a gold spoon sticking out of their ass. They worked and worked hard and do not feel they have taken anything from ANYONE. They believe in their lifetime they have not tried to HURT anyone and they are tired of hearing they are the evil empire because they just happened to be born white.
These arent just conservative men, many are traditional democrats and have been for decades. That is whats driving this far right intensity. I am not a conservative nor a liberal a democrat nor a republican.

I follow my instincts and I pick and choose which issues I am for and against.

I started voting when I turned 21 and never missed a beat since. I have been voting for 47 yrs. Never have I been more disgusted with both parties candidates.

Hillary is a phony a liar and as decietful as it gets. She does NOT deserve to have the honor to be the first woman Potus. Trump is phony a fraud a liar and sleezy confidence man. Ted Cruz is the most dispicable lieing phony skank in recent politics. Bernie Sanders is a far left socialist.

They are the leaders and on the right I cant stand the two behind trump and cruz. I am very much considering sitting this election out and it will be the FIRST time in my life.

I have nothing to lose or gain. I am financially comfortable even if they took my social security.
Bernie Sanders is social democrat. He is not for anything far left socialist. He is a very moderate socialist if you pressure me.

Hillary is a hawk like all the American presidents before her.

Possibly Sanders will become a hawk, too if he gets the presidency and you're going to see how he is not going to do even the third part of the promises. It is my bet.

About the Republicans, well they are Republicans and with that is everything said.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

[Peter1469]

Midcan't wouldn't know a conservative if he stumbled across one in his stupor.

[Mac-7]

"By an accident of birth, I fall into the White Guy category. To l (http://www.sltrib.com/home/3441922-155/story.html)

Correction.

Make that the brainwashed, guilt-ridden white liberal catagory.

Most liverals are merely average.

but some are quite intelligent and remind me of Italian sports cars in the 1950s.

They had really strong engines the way that the liberal intelligentsia has big brains.

But the Ferrari's suffered from crude suspension systems and narrow tires which often caused them to crash into the hay bales during a race.

The Dilbert fool who wrote this attack on white conservatives appears to be one of those.

[Common]

Bernie Sanders is social democrat. He is not for anything far left socialist. He is a very moderate socialist if you pressure me.

Hillary is a hawk like all the American presidents before her.

Possibly Sanders will become a hawk, too if he gets the presidency and you're going to see how he is not going to do even the third part of the promises. It is my bet.

About the Republicans, well they are Republicans and with that is everything said.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk


Midcan you and I will always have different views, you are a hyper partisan and I am not

[Peter1469]

Keep in mind when left, right, liberal, conservative is used people mean very different things.

I have posted my model if anyone thinks context is important.

[kilgram]

Midcan you and I will always have different views, you are a hyper partisan and I am not

I am hyper partisan? To what party?

[Common]

I am hyper partisan? To what party?

I meant midcan put I quoted you by accident

[Safety]

Gee, I don't know, going by the posts of some of the self-proclaimed "conservatives" here, it pretty much aligns with the OP's post. As for the guys who are tired of getting blamed for everything....welcome to a minority's viewpoint.

[texan]

Falls into my category:

The world didn't start when you started paying attention.

Dumb post by by someone who doesn't think for themself. See it all the time they are moved along watching tv and reading things they want to hear, never being honest with themselves and challenging themselves. They are generally those that leaders manage at work while shaking their heads thinking how did I inherit an idiot like this on my team. The first sentence is one that a white privilege nimrod writes. Another BLM type sheep.

[Chris]

"By an accident of birth, I fall into the White Guy category. To keep this on a positive note, let’s call it my brand. And that means that if other people with my outward characteristics do dumb-ass things, it reflects on my brand." Scott Adams


White conservative Americans have become an embarrassment. I know that's not politically correct, but face it folks we are starting to look like a nation of idiots. Think about that for a minute. Our white conservative Congress is voting again to repeal healthcare, you know healthcare that is slavery. Texas Governor Greg Abbott wants to make America Somalia, no need to obey federal laws - articles of Confederation redux. Kansas Governor Brownback bought into the insane idea idea that reducing taxes brings forth magic. Now the state is a mess. Kansas is just one state run by a white conservative republican. Was Brownback alive in 2008 and 2009 or was he lost in some imaginary supply side universe. Laffer is so appropriate a name.


What's the matter with white America is the question of the day. Recently a group of white militia conservatives took over a garage sized nature center in Oregon because they have the mental acuity of a spoiled five year old. Give children guns and they soon think they are warriors. Reminds you of a five year old who won't come in for dinner. One wonders what the idiots will do when tourist season arrives, maybe they'll give 'take over nation' demonstrations one garage at a time. If another American had asked for this land it would be welfare, how is it America belongs to the select few white Americans? The nation's Indians should tell them they're way late.


Then we have Maine Governor Paul LePage, of course everyone knows racism is alive and well in America, that is except white Americans, they think they are colorblind, try really hard to forget their narratives. Didn't a Marxist Kenyan president change all that. One can only wonder at the level of insanity when a woman becomes president. She is white, will that help? Are you kidding me. Anyone watch the Benghazi hearing. If hate required a face there were plenty of opportunities. Can you spell just plan nuts. And Deez even got some votes.


Anyone watching the republican debates would marvel at the level of dialogue, when it isn't the same reduce taxes on corporations and the wealthy and the economic genie will appear, they are upping each other like some chest pumping pretend wrestler, bomb em all. Bomb em all, bomb em all, is it fear, paranoia, everything has become Munich. Have any of them served in the military, had they maybe a rational thought would arrive.


Have you seen the crowds at Trump rallies, cheering the blond platitude, an inherited real-estate developer, now the darling of white conservative America. Trump engages in so much hyperbole, historians and sane media journalists now require therapy. While Nazi references are badly overused by these conservative republicans, recently a Muslim woman stood up and was escorted to door, that wasn't the proper sign of allegiance to a mountebank wearing a trite slogan. Remember the Gay soldier. Booing in this crowd is a substitute for thought.


And this comedy of white conservative sloganeering would just be funny until someone like Governor Rick Snyder poisons the people of Flint, Michigan to save a buck. Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker isn't just dumb, he wants all the citizens of Wisconsin on an equal level. Why fund education when anyone who isn't as extreme as you is just not conservative enough. How many teachers does Governor Rick Perry want to fire, he can't remember that either. And then there is Rick Scott. Any need to go on.


Have you noticed none of the republican governors support education. This would be funny until you look at the warriors in Oregon, or the tea party signs to keep government out of their medicare, or poisoned water, add tornadoes and floods which only matter if you happen to be in one. Education is power, it is feared by the powerful for it focuses attention on cause rather than aimless finger pointing. Pay close attention to Governors and candidates who listen the likes of the Koch brothers or Sheldon Adelson.


"If we held the White House, taxes would be lower, spending slowed and the military strengthened...." Governor Nikki R. Haley of South Carolina responds to the SOTU. She forgot 'freedom.' If a listener read history they know how often these same words are used, and they'd know too how meaningless they are. Can you spell voodoo or oligarchy.


Idiocy mixed with fear is so dangerous a mindset, anyone find those WMDs or witness the wonderful spread of democracy in the Middle East? If you have, let the rest of America know. So long as big money buffoons, corporate lobbies, think tanks that do anything but think exist, militiamen armed with AK15s isn't a reality show, it is reality.


It would give solace to the sane American if after President Obama's term, sanity in America returned, but given the House under 'missing a heart Ryan' is still voting to end slavery, aka healthcare, no hope is in sight. It has to be clear now, elect a conservative white governor and your state gets dumber, you lose healthcare, your environment is polluted, and your state goes into massive debt. All the while they throw out, weakness, appeasement, surrender, Chamberlain, again and again, is there any hope white America.

If anyone has an idea on how sane white Americans, who still believe in a land of promise, inclusion, fairness, and accomplishment can separate themselves from dumb white America. Please, please let America know. By the way, suggested forehead tattoos, would help but people do occasionally change. Imagine for a minute the Donald's audience cheering bigotry, slogans waving, 'make America great again', Palin rambling, dissenting Americans booed, and you witness the absurd theater white conservative republicans have created. And so it goes....


Source Information:


http://blog.dilbert.com/post/136879450111/working-on-the-white-guy-brand
http://www.alternet.org/story/150392/the_8_worst_governors_in_america
http://www.salon.com/2016/01/14/thank_you_oregon_militiamen_the_longer_you_stay_th e_more_ridiculous_you_and_the_conservative_movemen t_look/
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/156038
https://aeon.co/opinions/why-bullshit-is-no-laughing-matter




Reading


'Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class' by Ian Haney López
'The Rhetoric of Reaction: Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy' Albert O. Hirschman
'Invisible Hands: The Businessmen's Crusade Against the New Deal' Kim Phillips-Fein
'It's Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided With the New Politics of Extremism' by Thomas E. Mann, Norman J. Ornstein
'Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong' by James W. Loewen
'Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free' by Charles P. Pierce
'Liberty Under Siege: American Politics, 1976-1988' by Walter Karp
'Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming' by Naomi Oreskes, Erik M. M. Conway
'American High: The Years of Confidence, 1945-1960' by William L. O'Neill
'A Bubble in Time: America During the Interwar Years, 1989-2001' by William L. O'Neill
'Coming Apart: An Informal History of America in the 1960s' by William L. O'Neill


'The American conservative has become a sort of trained bumpkin, they outsource their work and pay them nothing and he unconsciously blames government when she doesn't blame some racial or ethnic group. Years of training have made them puppets. One could say corporate puppets, the corporations play them like children. Has the conservative always been this naive a tool of others? Maybe they have, for power knows all you need to do is have an enemy to occupy them. When it isn't government it's progress, or for some conservatives it's another human being of difference. I guess when one's mind is empty of education or history, it gives comfort to know satan caused all that is wrong. Satan can be whatever the powers that be tell them. No need to name names' mc5


And I give you this idiot to add to the point. http://www.sltrib.com/home/3441922-155/story.html



Nice strawman!!!

[texan]

BTW the bad thing is this writing sounds smart seems to make sense.......LOL same mentality from the same people that have us 18 trillion in debt

[Cletus]

Gee, I don't know, going by the posts of some of the self-proclaimed "conservatives" here, it pretty much aligns with the OP's post. As for the guys who are tired of getting blamed for everything....welcome to a minority's viewpoint.

Really?

Who?

Tell me who here is against education. Tell me who here is against health care. Tell me who here fits the hateful, bigoted stereotype put forth in the opening post.

Don't be shy. Name them.

[Chris]

Gee, I don't know, going by the posts of some of the self-proclaimed "conservatives" here, it pretty much aligns with the OP's post. As for the guys who are tired of getting blamed for everything....welcome to a minority's viewpoint.


Self-proclaimed, yes.

[kilgram]

Self-proclaimed, yes.

Self-proclaimed Libertarians also fall in that category :)

[birddog]

It's difficult for me to directly respond to the OP without using mild profanity, so I will refrain.

I try to be as conservative politically as I can be. I will vote for the Republican nominee because that person will be the most conservative of the two viable candidates. I'm not silly!:grin:

[Mac-7]

It's difficult for me to directly respond to the OP without using mild profanity, so I will refrain.

I try to be as conservative politically as I can be. I will vote for the Republican nominee because that person will be the most conservative of the two viable candidates. I'm not silly!:grin:

Lefties think they are so smart that they accuse anyone who does not agree with them of being stupid.

Or evil and corrupt.

but the thought that they could be wrong never enters their heads

[Truth Detector]

Nothing more ironic than a Liberal who supports big Government solutions that have NEVER done anything to help the poor and middle class declaring everyone who doesn't agree with their dimwitted agenda morons.

What can be more ignorant than an ideology that spends $22 trillion in a declared war on poverty for three decades achieving nothing but MORE poverty then claim that we didn't spend enough?

What can be more ignorant than an ideology that claims that if Government spends a trillion dollars it doesn't have, it can miraculously lift us out of a recession?

What can be more ignorant than an ideology that declares that ONLY black lives can matter while denigrating the police who are trying to save those lives?

I think the liberal ideologues who laughably believe they are smarter than everyone else need a giant mirror to see what ignorance really looks like.

[midcan5]

Glad to see some replies, I find people shut up when faced with a truth. I wish people would read 'Liberty Under Siege: American Politics, 1976-1988' by Walter Karp. Read only the Reagan presidency sections.

Why does this meme about 'smarter' always come up? Rather interesting assumption one I could have easily added but hey enough is enough.

Conservatives must face the monster they have created after sixty years of disparaging government, why now would they think their idea of government is better than another. Nations deteriorate from the inside, the destruction of America started in earnest with Ronald Reagan and the rise of oligarchy. Sixty years on, an education that excluded diversity, reality, science, and every other American value has had great impact. Mirrors are obviously missing at the National Review and other locations. The interesting thing is Trump and Cruz could actually be more extreme and still appeal to the conservative of today. Check Iowa voting. The apologetics begin.


http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-potemkin-village-of-conservatism/
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/movement-conservatism-vs-trump/
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/millman/talking-trumps-chances/

[Chris]

Glad to see some replies, I find people shut up when faced with a truth. I wish people would read 'Liberty Under Siege: American Politics, 1976-1988' by Walter Karp. Read only the Reagan presidency sections.

Why does this meme about 'smarter' always come up? Rather interesting assumption one I could have easily added but hey enough is enough.

Conservatives must face the monster they have created after sixty years of disparaging government, why now would they think their idea of government is better than another. Nations deteriorate from the inside, the destruction of America started in earnest with Ronald Reagan and the rise of oligarchy. Sixty years on, an education that excluded diversity, reality, science, and every other American value has had great impact. Mirrors are obviously missing at the National Review and other locations. The interesting thing is Trump and Cruz could actually be more extreme and still appeal to the conservative of today. Check Iowa voting. The apologetics begin.


http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-potemkin-village-of-conservatism/
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/movement-conservatism-vs-trump/
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/millman/talking-trumps-chances/


What truth? You presented a bunch of liberal caricatures of conservatives.

And what's funny is you defend that with Trump and Crus as if they are conservatives.

Did you know that your three links reject Trump as conservative? Try reading before posting.

[Truth Detector]

Glad to see some replies, I find people shut up when faced with a truth. I wish people would read 'Liberty Under Siege: American Politics, 1976-1988' by Walter Karp. Read only the Reagan presidency sections.

Why does this meme about 'smarter' always come up? Rather interesting assumption one I could have easily added but hey enough is enough.

Conservatives must face the monster they have created after sixty years of disparaging government, why now would they think their idea of government is better than another. Nations deteriorate from the inside, the destruction of America started in earnest with Ronald Reagan and the rise of oligarchy. Sixty years on, an education that excluded diversity, reality, science, and every other American value has had great impact. Mirrors are obviously missing at the National Review and other locations. The interesting thing is Trump and Cruz could actually be more extreme and still appeal to the conservative of today. Check Iowa voting. The apologetics begin.


http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/the-potemkin-village-of-conservatism/
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/movement-conservatism-vs-trump/
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/millman/talking-trumps-chances/

Your premise is an outright falsehood based on a hyper partisan leftist narrative.

Our nations deterioration didn't begin with Ronald Reagan; it began with Franklin Delano Roosevelt and his nationalization of Government and corruption of the Constitutional limitations our founders created. He single handedly gave us the entitlement mess we find ourselves in today.

It's laughably ignorant to suggest that they began in the 1980's as a result of Reagan. Particularly when the LAW making body of Government was dominated by .... wait for it......DEMOCRATS led by Tipsy O'Neil.

As for the rise of oligarchy; do you even know what this means? It's almost as dimwitted as claiming that America is Imperialist.

[Chris]

Self-proclaimed Libertarians also fall in that category :)

What category is that? Do you even know?

[kilgram]

What category is that? Do you even know?

The catagory of statists.

[Chris]

Your premise is an outright falsehood based on a hyper partisan leftist narrative.

Our nations deterioration didn't begin with Ronald Reagan; it began with Franklin Delano Roosevelt and his nationalization of Government and corruption of the Constitutional limitations our founders created. He single handedly gave us the entitlement mess we find ourselves in today.

It's laughably ignorant to suggest that they began in the 1980's as a result of Reagan. Particularly when the LAW making body of Government was dominated by .... wait for it......DEMOCRATS led by Tipsy O'Neil.

As for the rise of oligarchy; do you even know what this means? It's almost as dimwitted as claiming that America is Imperialist.



And yours is merely the hyper partisan rightist Republican narrative.

Why do people continue to conflate left/right with liberal/conservative with Democrat/Republican?

Deterioration began with the Constitution. The Articles of Confederation were better suited to federalism.

[Chris]

The catagory of statists.

So to you libertarians are statists? That's wacky on the face of it when libertarianism is anti-statist.

[Tahuyaman]

"By an accident of birth, I fall into the White Guy categoryl (http://www.sltrib.com/home/3441922-155/story.html)


The circumstances of one's birth is beyond their control. Remaining ignorant is not beyond ones control.

[Green Arrow]

I think American liberals are equally embarrassing. American politics is largely vapid and meaningless and American liberals and conservatives alike have one thing in common: they eat it all up.

[Green Arrow]

So to you libertarians are statists? That's wacky on the face of it when libertarianism is anti-statist.

Hey, he defines libertarian as statist. Who are you, the definition police? Words change and their meanings change with them.

[TrueBlue]

Brilliant piece brought forth! I salute you!

[Truth Detector]

I think American liberals are equally embarrassing. American politics is largely vapid and meaningless and American liberals and conservatives alike have one thing in common: they eat it all up.

You need to watch the English Pairlament in action. If you think that American politics are unique in vapid and meaningless, you don't get around much.

And as much as Americans and others in the world like to impugn our politics, it still beats the stupidity of the parliamentary systems in most other Democratic nations or the tyranny of Communisim and Dictators.

What is clear to me is that those prone to criticize our system really don't have the slightest clue of how it actually works and why it was designed to work the way it does. I can think of nothing that illustrates that ignorance clearer than when citizens demand that Congress actually work.

[Chris]

Hey, he defines libertarian as statist. Who are you, the definition police? Words change and their meanings change with them.

So who else besides kilgram defines libertarian as statist?

Max Nettlau, A Short History of Anarchism, categorizes European anarchy into libertarian and statist camps. This same meaning is used today even in the US, where you have both left and right libertarians, but both are anti-statist. --Not quite the same with "socialism" which people have redefined over time.

One person redefining words is not linguistic change but mere confusion.

[Green Arrow]

You need to watch the English Pairlament in action. If you think that American politics are unique in vapid and meaningless, you don't get around much.

I watch the English parliament fairly regularly and I never said American politics were unique in vapid and meaningless qualities.


And as much as Americans and others in the world like to impugn our politics, it still beats the stupidity of the parliamentary systems in most other Democratic nations or the tyranny of Communisim and Dictators.

Stupidity? Those parliamentary systems once controlled vast swaths of the world, a feat America has so far never achieved. Britain in particular controlled one quarter of the planet at their peak.


What is clear to me is that those prone to criticize our system really don't have the slightest clue of how it actually works and why it was designed to work the way it does. I can think of nothing that illustrates that ignorance clearer than when citizens demand that Congress actually work.

I know how it works, I just don't like how it works. There's a difference, chief.

[Green Arrow]

So who else besides kilgram defines libertarian as statist?

Plenty of people, actually, but that's besides the point.

[Tahuyaman]

Actually, it looks like some people don't have a clear grasp of what the word "statist" actually means.

[Bo-4]

Actually, it looks like some people don't have a clear grasp of what the word "statist" actually means.

You probably don't either. :)

Statism:

1) the principle or policy of concentrating extensive economic, political, and related controls in the state (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/state) at the cost of individual liberty.

Not interested in loss of any individual liberties. I'm a live and let live kind of guy. But there HAVE to be rules and we can't do without either a state or federal government.


2) support of or belief in the sovereignty of a state (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/state), usually a republic.

Ehhh no, this part doesn't define me either. Sounds more like a wackanoid Sovereign Citizen militia sort who thinks that only a local sheriff can tell them what to do.

[Peter1469]

You probably don't either. :)

Statism:

1) the principle or policy of concentrating extensive economic, political, and related controls in the state (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/state) at the cost of individual liberty.

Not interested in loss of any individual liberties. I'm a live and let live kind of guy. But there HAVE to be rules and we can't do without either a state or federal government.


2) support of or belief in the sovereignty of a state (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/state), usually a republic.

Ehhh no, this part doesn't define me either. Sounds more like a wackanoid Sovereign Citizen militia sort who thinks that only a local sheriff can tell them what to do.


Bo, don't take a dump just yet. Your government issued ass wipe is running late. Pinch it off if you can.

[Bo-4]

Bo, don't take a dump just yet. Your government issued ass wipe is running late. Pinch it off if you can.

LoL :D

[Chris]

Plenty of people, actually, but that's besides the point.

Plenty--yet you name not one. And, yes, that is the point.

[Chris]

You probably don't either. :)

Statism:

1) the principle or policy of concentrating extensive economic, political, and related controls in the state (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/state) at the cost of individual liberty.

Not interested in loss of any individual liberties. I'm a live and let live kind of guy. But there HAVE to be rules and we can't do without either a state or federal government.


2) support of or belief in the sovereignty of a state (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/state), usually a republic.

Ehhh no, this part doesn't define me either. Sounds more like a wackanoid Sovereign Citizen militia sort who thinks that only a local sheriff can tell them what to do.




Not interested in loss of any individual liberties. I'm a live and let live kind of guy. But there HAVE to be rules and we can't do without either a state or federal government.

IOW, you're not a statist but you are.

[Tahuyaman]

Bo, don't take a dump just yet. Your government issued ass wipe is running late. Pinch it off if you can.


Bo liked that.

[Green Arrow]

Plenty--yet you name not one. And, yes, that is the point.

If you want to get hung up on how many people view libertarians as statists - including some libertarians - fine. The point is the same if you substitute "libertarianism" for "anarchism." Better, in fact, as virtually everyone on the planet views anarchism as chaos and not at all as a legitimate political system.

[Chris]

If you want to get hung up on how many people view libertarians as statists - including some libertarians - fine. The point is the same if you substitute "libertarianism" for "anarchism." Better, in fact, as virtually everyone on the planet views anarchism as chaos and not at all as a legitimate political system.

You seem to be hung up on it, with virtually nothing to say about it. Kilgram has his own definitions.

[Green Arrow]

You seem to be hung up on it, with virtually nothing to say about it. Kilgram has his own definitions.

I have a lot to say about it, actually, but let's just focus on the question.

If the vast majority view anarchism as chaos and not a valid political system, is it as they say it is?

[Chris]

I have a lot to say about it, actually, but let's just focus on the question.

If the vast majority view anarchism as chaos and not a valid political system, is it as they say it is?


This was the question I was engaged in...


Self-proclaimed Libertarians also fall in that category :)


What category is that? Do you even know?

[Bo-4]

IOW, you're not a statist but you are.

What part of the definition fits me Chris?

Honestly, i'm curious.

[Chris]

What part of the definition fits me Chris?

Honestly, i'm curious.

Color coded:


Not interested in loss of any individual liberties. I'm a live and let live kind of guy. But there HAVE to be rules and we can't do without either a state or federal government.

IOW, you're not a statist but you are.

[Ransom]

I have a strong suspicion from most Members here they wouldn't know an American Conservative if one shat on their front lawn.

Moving on.

[Peter1469]

I have a strong suspicion from most Members here they wouldn't know an American Conservative if one shat on their front lawn.

Moving on.


Probably correct. But don't confuse them with Neocon central. Neocons were liberals who left the Democratic party when it turned anti-national defense back in 'Nam. Neocons are still largely big government liberals. I.e. enemies to thinkers.

[Chris]

I have a strong suspicion from most Members here they wouldn't know an American Conservative if one shat on their front lawn.

Moving on.

An American conservative wouldn't do that, he'd respect your private property.

A neocon might.

[Bo-4]

Color coded:

IOW, you're not a statist but you are.

Clever but inaccurate color coding.

Please don't tell me that there is no need for government or some basic rules of fair play.

From my perspective, social cons (you're not one of those) seem to be after larger and more intrusive government than wild-eyed liberals.

I'm like Goldilocks when it comes to government. Not too big, not to small .. functional and JUUUST right!

:)

[Ransom]

Probably correct. But don't confuse them with Neocon central. Neocons were liberals who left the Democratic party when it turned anti-national defense back in 'Nam. Neocons are still largely big government liberals. I.e. enemies to thinkers.

I'm a Neocon, Pete. A proud as a peac0ck, Neocon. First time I've heard I'm a liberal who left the Democrat Party after Vietnam.

I actually happen to be rather small government. I am for welfare reform, tax reform, less regulation, less taxes. I also happen to believe you Pete....wouldn't know an 'enemy to thinkers' if one crawled up your wazoo and whistled Dixie. You've an odd interpretation of Neocon. Odd and dead wrong, but, odd all the same. Your sourcing sucks.

[Peter1469]

Clever but inaccurate color coding.

Please don't tell me that there is no need for government or some basic rules of fair play.

From my perspective, social cons (you're not one of those) seem to be after larger and more intrusive government than wild-eyed liberals.

I'm like Goldilocks when it comes to government. Not too big, not to small .. functional and JUUUST right!

:)

Social cons don't have any power. They get used for votes. Just like dems use minorities for votes. :wink:

[Bo-4]

Probably correct. But don't confuse them with Neocon central. Neocons were liberals who left the Democratic party when it turned anti-national defense back in 'Nam. Neocons are still largely big government liberals. I.e. enemies to thinkers.

Huh?

Okay check -- so Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Kristol, Dick Cheney, John Bolton, Donald Rumsfeld and Marco Rubio are all liberals.

Got it! :rolleyes:

[Ransom]

Social cons don't have any power. They get used for votes. Just like dems use minorities for votes. :wink:

The current majority in the House of Representatives was brought about by the Tea Party and many other social conservatives. You're wrong.

[Chris]

Huh?

Okay check -- so Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Kristol, Dick Cheney, John Bolton, Donald Rumsfeld and Marco Rubio are all liberals.

Got it! :rolleyes:

Neocons, said the godfather of it, Irvin Kristol, are liberals mugged by reality. They were all ex-liberals, ex-communists, ex-Trotskyites.

(According to Rand Paul, Hillary Clinton is a neocon.)

[Green Arrow]

This was the question I was engaged in...

Yes, and I brought a new (but related) question into it.

Can you answer it?

[Chris]

The current majority in the House of Representatives was brought about by the Tea Party and many other social conservatives. You're wrong.

Tea Partiers and social cons, while they may well overlap, are not the same thing. I recall early on i the Tea Party movement, in my voting district, some tried to use the local Tea Party for religious purposes in emails and newsletters, and the rest of us rose up and said, no disrespect, but the Tea Party is not interested in social issues, we stand for less taxes, smaller government and more liberty. Tea Partiers are closer to libertarians in principles, but, again, not the same.

[Bo-4]

Neocons, said the godfather of it, Irvin Kristol, are liberals mugged by reality. They were all ex-liberals, ex-communists, ex-Trotskyites.

(According to Rand Paul, Hillary Clinton is a neocon.)

Is Irvin Bill's Dad?

If so, that explains that i guess. But he's stumping for Ted Cruz - clearly a teabagging, conservative neocon.

Agree however that Hillary Clinton while a social liberal, is decidedly a neocon.

Apologies, but i'm just not seeing any connection between hardcore, present-day R neocons and liberals.

[Chris]

Is Irvin Bill's Dad?

If so, that explains that i guess. But he's stumping for Ted Cruz - clearly a teabagging, conservative neocon.

Agree however that Hillary Clinton while a social liberal, is decidedly a neocon.

Apologies, but i'm just not seeing any connection between hardcore, present-day R neocons and liberals.


I think Irvin is Bill's dad.

It explains nothing, Bill is a Republican shill.

Tea Party and neocon are antonyms.

Both want big government, both are statists.

[PolWatch]

Tea Partiers and social cons, while they may well overlap, are not the same thing. I recall early on i the Tea Party movement, in my voting district, some tried to use the local Tea Party for religious purposes in emails and newsletters, and the rest of us rose up and said, no disrespect, but the Tea Party is not interested in social issues, we stand for less taxes, smaller government and more liberty. Tea Partiers are closer to libertarians in principles, but, again, not the same.

That was in the day when they were not associated with either of the major parties. They have been hijacked by the social cons & welded to the right wing of the repub party.

[Bo-4]

I think Irvin is Bill's dad.

It explains nothing, Bill is a Republican shill.

Tea Party and neocon are antonyms.

Both want big government, both are statists.

WoW .. super interesting post and therefore a THX!

I've yet to figure you out, and thus you remain challenging and interesting.

HOWEVER, TP's and Neo's are antonyms?

Don't get that at ALL.

Rubio rode the TP wave into his cushy Senate seat (which he hates) and is possibly the worst of current crop of neos.

Ditto on Cruz

So, you're still a Gary Johnson guy or what?

[Ransom]

Gee, I don't know, going by the posts of some of the self-proclaimed "conservatives" here, it pretty much aligns with the OP's post. As for the guys who are tired of getting blamed for everything....welcome to a minority's viewpoint.

Is that the progression, is that how you became such victims and acting thus? Yikes.

[Peter1469]

Huh?

Okay check -- so Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Kristol, Dick Cheney, John Bolton, Donald Rumsfeld and Marco Rubio are all liberals.

Got it! :rolleyes:
Statists. Correct.

You are not as stupid as others claim.

[Peter1469]

The current majority in the House of Representatives was brought about by the Tea Party and many other social conservatives. You're wrong.


What have they done?

Dismissed.

[Bo-4]

Statists. Correct.

You are not as stupid as others claim.

Lol, thanks (i guess) - But see my response to Chris.

[Chris]

Bo-4, note, when I say you're a statist, I don't mean it to an extreme degree nor as a pejorative, just that you, to some degree, tend to look to the government for solutions. I tend not to.

[Bo-4]

@Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297), note, when I say you're a statist, I don't mean it to an extreme degree nor as a pejorative, just that you, to some degree, tend to look to the government for solutions. I tend not to.

This clarification is much appreciated.

I simply am attempting to communicate that government (whether state or national) is a necessary thing.

Without it?

Somalia Bay-Bee

[Chris]

This clarification is much appreciated.

I simply am attempting to communicate that government (whether state or national) is a necessary thing.

Without it?

Somalia Bay-Bee

"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."

Thomas Paine

[Chris]

That was in the day when they were not associated with either of the major parties. They have been hijacked by the social cons & welded to the right wing of the repub party.

Agree, the name has been hijacked by Republicans who were once the very target of Tea Partiers.

[Ransom]

What have they done?

Dismissed.

First and foremost, sat both Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid down. They did properly investigate the Benghazi disaster, I highly doubt the server mess Hillary finds herself in occurs should Republicans not have discovered it while insisting on information. I believe another government entity discovered the separate server, probably the State Department itself but it came at the request for information, this doesn't happen under a Pelosi House thus they may have undermined the candidacy of Hillary Clinton. So, politically they've done their due workload. Spending wise.....I'm as unhappy as you are although....they did oppose Obamacare, the Stimulus, the omnibus spending bill, I don't think Republicans share most of the blame for current debt levels.

[Chris]

Agree, the name has been hijacked by Republicans who were once the very target of Tea Partiers.

It was also hijacked in the same sense by the liberal media.

[Peter1469]

First and foremost, sat both Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid down. They did properly investigate the Benghazi disaster, I highly doubt the server mess Hillary finds herself in occurs should Republicans not have discovered it while insisting on information. I believe another government entity discovered the separate server, probably the State Department itself but it came at the request for information, this doesn't happen under a Pelosi House thus they may have undermined the candidacy of Hillary Clinton. So, politically they've done their due workload. Spending wise.....I'm as unhappy as you are although....they did oppose Obamacare, the Stimulus, the omnibus spending bill, I don't think Republicans share most of the blame for current debt levels.

How is the budget looking?

[Ransom]

How is the budget looking?

Unfortunately and much like your ISIS analyses, stretched and unrealistic. Why?

[Safety]

Really?

Who?

Tell me who here is against education. Tell me who here is against health care. Tell me who here fits the hateful, bigoted stereotype put forth in the opening post.

Don't be shy. Name them.

Here's a most recent thread that talks about education, you can read for yourself. Make sure you don't forget the comments about culture (Oh, I mean race) also.

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/57181-Bernie-Sanders-quot-Free-college-for-everyone!!-quot/page3

[Peter1469]

Unfortunately and much like your ISIS analyses, stretched and unrealistic. Why?

You only highlight your lack of qualifications to discuss geopolitics when you make statements like that. :smiley:

Are you still claiming to be a retired senior DoD official? You don't post like you have that background.