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View Full Version : tPF The Impossible (Pipe) Dream—Single-Payer Health Reform



Peter1469
01-25-2016, 07:28 PM
Inside Sources brings an argument against Sander's single payer health care system. The Impossible (Pipe) Dream—Single-Payer Health Reform (http://www.insidesources.com/the-impossible-pipe-dream-single-payer-health-reform/)
Read the entire article for context.

Sander's plan is more expensive than let on.


In contrast, Senator Sanders’ plan, like the earlier proposal sponsored by Representative John Conyers (D-Michigan) which Sanders co-sponsored, would scrap all of those arrangements. Instead, people would simply go to the medical care provider of their choice and bills would be paid from a national trust fund. That sounds simple and attractive, but it raises vexatious questions.



How much would it cost the federal government? Where would the money to cover the costs come from?
What would happen to the $700 billion that employers now spend on health insurance?
How would the $600 billion a year reductions in total health spending that Sanders says his plan would generate come from?
What would happen to special facilities for veterans and families of members of the armed services?

Sanders has answers for some of these questions, but not for others. Both the answers and non-answers show why single payer is unlike past major social legislation.


The answer to the question of how much single payer would cost the federal government is simple: $4.1 trillion a year, or $1.4 trillion more than the federal government now spends on programs that the Sanders plan would replace. The money would come from new taxes. Half the added revenue would come from doubling the payroll tax that employers now pay for Social Security. This tax approximates what employers now collectively spend on health insurance for their employees…if they provide health insurance. But many don’t. Some employers would face large tax increases. Others would reap windfall gains.

Don't forget this part:

Let me be clear: we know that high quality health care can be delivered at much lower cost than is the U.S. norm. We know because other countries do it. In fact, some of them have plans not unlike the one Senator Sanders is proposing. We know that single-payer mechanisms work in some countries. But those systems evolved over decades, based on gradual and incremental change from what existed before. That is the way that public policy is made in democracies. Radical change may occur after a catastrophic economic collapse or a major war. But in normal times, democracies do not tolerate radical discontinuity. If you doubt me, consider the tumult precipitated by the really quite conservative Affordable Care Act.

Green Arrow
01-25-2016, 07:40 PM
I think it could work if applied on a state-by-state basis, but I agree that it can't work over the whole nation unless the national system is administered by the states.

Captain Obvious
01-25-2016, 07:43 PM
We live in a materialistic, wealthy country that is currently founded on excess and waste.

Governmentalizing healthcare only makes government bigger and stronger, it does nothing to healthcare costs or quality because you don't cure the disease by treating the (wrong) symptom.

Legislate all the healthcare reform all you want, we are not Scandinavia or wherever. What works there isn't going to work here no matter how hard you force that square peg in there.

Peter1469
01-25-2016, 08:40 PM
We live in a materialistic, wealthy country that is currently founded on excess and waste.

Governmentalizing healthcare only makes government bigger and stronger, it does nothing to healthcare costs or quality because you don't cure the disease by treating the (wrong) symptom.

Legislate all the healthcare reform all you want, we are not Scandinavia or wherever. What works there isn't going to work here no matter how hard you force that square peg in there.

Hit the nail on the head.

We want the best here in the US. Even the people who can't afford it.

Captain Obvious
01-25-2016, 08:43 PM
Hit the nail on the head.

We want the best here in the US. Even the people who can't afford it.

It goes beyond that, the biggest and bestest concept - you think big pharma is going to allow their bought-and-paid-for legislative goons to truly reform health care costs, at the expense of their investors?

Faaaaaack no, ain't never happening in this realm.

All healthcare reform is is a lot of smoke and mirrors to bloat up gubmint more.

valley ranch
01-25-2016, 10:06 PM
Let's hurry up and pass this bill so we can find out what's in it! Barbara Boxer.

Cigar
01-25-2016, 10:07 PM
Let's hurry up and pass this bill so we can find out what's in it! Barbara Boxer.

Are you sure you want to go down memory lane ... ? :grin:

ThaiBoxer
01-25-2016, 11:31 PM
Every civilized nation in the world provides health care to its citizen so the idea that it's impossible here is just plain stupid.

Mac-7
01-26-2016, 01:21 AM
Every civilized nation in the world provides health care to its citizen so the idea that it's impossible here is just plain stupid.

America is unique - and a better nation than most.

Heathcare is not a human right.

Peter1469
01-26-2016, 05:55 AM
Every civilized nation in the world provides health care to its citizen so the idea that it's impossible here is just plain stupid.

What part of the article did you disagree with?