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Peter1469
02-05-2016, 05:42 AM
College fails 2/3rd of students (http://www.realclearpolicy.com/blog/2016/02/04/colleges_fail_two-thirds_of_students_1542.html)

An interesting article consider the recent demands for free college. Of course a lot matters based upon what college you go to. The US still dominates the top 100 colleges in the world (http://www.thebestschools.org/features/100-best-universities-in-world-today/).


Presidential candidates have talked up college as an important pathway to the middle class. Sen. Bernie Sanders has even called for making public colleges and universities tuition-free. But these ideas ignore a harsh reality in the American higher-education system: Only one-third of college enrollees graduate within six years and then get jobs requiring college degrees.

That is the conclusion of my new report (http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/issues-2016-only-one-third-college-enrollees-end-jobs-requiring-college-degrees-8482.html) in the Manhattan Institute's Issues 2016 (https://www.manhattan-institute.org/issues2016) series. Only 59 percent of four-year college students graduate within six years. Those who graduate face an additional hurdle — only 56 percent of recent college graduates work in a job that requires a college degree (though the figure for all college graduates is 67 percent, suggesting some underemployed graduates move up later in their careers).



Multiplied together, these numbers suggest that only 33 percent of students who enter college emerge with both a degree within six years and a relevant job soon after graduation. This is the true crisis in higher education, and one policymakers must address before they offer up more taxpayer money to colleges.


Encouraging more students to attend college may worsen the already-poor graduation rate. The new students attracted by free college are likely to attend institutions where graduation rates are lower, such as community colleges (where 40 percent graduate) or four-year colleges with open enrollment (where just 34 percent do).


Failing to graduate is a major cause of financial hardship — student-loan delinquency rates among dropouts are four times higher than among graduates, despite dropouts' having less debt. Additionally, the years that dropouts spend in college are years in which they cannot pursue other career paths, such as apprenticeships.

Common
02-05-2016, 07:54 AM
Of course many are failing and theres a reason for it. Schools give HS diplomas away for a couple of reasons, mostly they want to keep their pass/ fail numbers up and some believe giving HS diplomas to kids that havent passed anything is giving them a chance.

Standing Wolf
02-05-2016, 08:01 AM
My youngest son spent/wasted a year attending Evergreen State College up in Washington state - motto (and I'm not kidding) "Omnia Extares" ("Let it all hang out"). Apropos of its motto, the school mascot was a freshwater clam called the geoduck, which looks like an oddly-shaped penis. Curriculum and course content were about what you'd expect: new age vagueness meets the diversity of uselessness.

After a year up there, even he, at 19, realized that it was a complete waste of time and money, regardless of how easy the experience - or perhaps because of that. He started from scratch at a state college here in Arizona, NAU - started out wanting to major in Political Science, but eventually settled on journalism. He graduated last Spring, and within a month had a paying gig as a full-time working reporter.

Not all university experiences are the same, obviously. Even more so, a student's attitude, character and other personal attributes and qualities are vital in determining how much, if anything, he or she will get out of attending. A kid who wants to be challenged and be improved will be. College can be a unique and valuable training ground for the real world, if approached with the right attitude, and not seen as just a way to postpone having to go out into that real world for a few years.

Common
02-05-2016, 08:03 AM
College are money machines its more about Profit than it is Education. If getting drunk doing drugs and having orgies keeps the kids happy and paying tuition so be it.

AeonPax
02-05-2016, 08:07 AM
`
I see two problems here, a) High Schools not preparing students for college and b) most importantly, colleges admitting these students. None of this is a reason not to allow qualified individuals from going to college for free.

Common
02-05-2016, 08:10 AM
`
I see two problems here, a) High Schools not preparing students for college and b) most importantly, colleges admitting these students. None of this is a reason not to allow qualified individuals from going to college for free.

Of course theres a reason not to let them go to college for free, first of all its NOT free, everyone else is paying for it and the same applies to them going free. The same applies that after someone else paying for them they dont or cant pass either.

Colleges are for PROFIT if the taxpayers are paying for a student they dont care if they are qualified or even have a chance to pass and graduate, a warm body = money

Standing Wolf
02-05-2016, 08:14 AM
If a college education is going to be paid for by taxpayers, there had damned well better be a system for monitoring whether a student is using that entitlement wisely. I have a slight problem with shelling out a s**t-ton of money to pay for anyone's four-year vacation in academic la-la land.

AeonPax
02-05-2016, 08:26 AM
Of course theres a reason not to let them go to college for free, first of all its NOT free, everyone else is paying for it and the same applies to them going free. The same applies that after someone else paying for them they dont or cant pass either. Colleges are for PROFIT if the taxpayers are paying for a student they dont care if they are qualified or even have a chance to pass and graduate, a warm body = money
`
I don't mind paying my tax dollars to educate Americans. I'd sooner pay the tuition for someone to try and fail than not try at all. In all cases, America ends up with a smarter electorate. For profit colleges are failing themselves in the US. The article, which is more of an opinion piece, takes a raw aggregate number (failure rates) and without examining WHY those failures occur, attempts to illogically apply that as a reason against free tuition. That may work as a reason for some people who like their answers simple but without knowing what the terms and conditions are for free tuition, is premature at best.

Cigar
02-05-2016, 08:38 AM
Don't study you shouldn't pass ...

Unless Daddy Builds a new wing or funds the Football Team.

Common
02-05-2016, 09:12 AM
`
I don't mind paying my tax dollars to educate Americans. I'd sooner pay the tuition for someone to try and fail than not try at all. In all cases, America ends up with a smarter electorate. For profit colleges are failing themselves in the US. The article, which is more of an opinion piece, takes a raw aggregate number (failure rates) and without examining WHY those failures occur, attempts to illogically apply that as a reason against free tuition. That may work as a reason for some people who like their answers simple but without knowing what the terms and conditions are for free tuition, is premature at best.

Free tuition isnt free I guess you are ok paying for illegal immigrant kids to get free tuiton too we already give them free public school.

No one can afford free anymore except the 2%

Cletus
02-05-2016, 11:14 AM
`
I don't mind paying my tax dollars to educate Americans.

That's nice. However, instead of forcing millions of other Americans to do something just because you don't mind doing it, maybe you should just get out your checkbook and and stand outside the enrollment office of some school and start writing checks and leave the rest of us alone.

Mac-7
02-05-2016, 01:06 PM
Education is overpriced.

The greedy professors keep raising prices and the only debate is how are the kids going to find the money to pay for it.

domer76
02-05-2016, 01:15 PM
Perhaps a good portion of the students failed themselves. College isn't a babysitting service.

However, in many universities, funding is a major problem. If you can't get into a class you need for your major and there's a year wait to try again, graduation is now set back a year.

Mac-7
02-05-2016, 01:22 PM
Perhaps a good portion of the students failed themselves. College isn't a babysitting service.

However, in many universities, funding is a major problem. If you can't get into a class you need for your major and there's a year wait to try again, graduation is now set back a year.

Poor performance by the students reflects on them, the parents and K-12 educators.

but the high cost of college is caused by government and greedy universities.

domer76
02-05-2016, 01:23 PM
Education is overpriced.

The greedy professors keep raising prices and the only debate is how are the kids going to find the money to pay for it.

The more you post about education, the more it is obvious you know nothing about it

Ethereal
02-05-2016, 01:28 PM
The more you post about education, the more it is obvious you know nothing about it

Only an economic illiterate would deny the fact that professor salaries and benefits are a substantial driver of increased tuition costs.

Ethereal
02-05-2016, 01:35 PM
It's really simple.

The government is subsidizing college educations, which results in a lot people who are not suited to college going to college anyway. Naturally, a lot of these people fail out of college, and in the process, drive up tuition costs for the people who actually are suited to college.

Ultimately, it's just another example of the unintended consequences of government central planning. They cause the cost of college to explode and they incentivize millions of people to waste their time attending an institution that they were never suited to in the first place.

Ethereal
02-05-2016, 01:43 PM
When are people going to realize that these government intrusions into the market are just elaborate rackets? There is an entire for-profit industry that is based on this education subsidization racket, and it mostly involves politicians, administrators, professors, and textbook manufactures who are lining their pockets with hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars.

Cigar
02-05-2016, 01:48 PM
When are people going to realize that these government intrusions into the market are just elaborate rackets? There is an entire for-profit industry that is based on this education subsidization racket, and it mostly involves politicians, administrators, professors, and textbook manufactures who are lining their pockets with hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars.

On Sunday

domer76
02-05-2016, 02:00 PM
Only an economic illiterate would deny the fact that professor salaries and benefits are a substantial driver of increased tuition costs.

When I worked at the local university, not once did I see professors get together and "raise prices". That's an absurd statement. State university salaries are set by the state. Or is it different in your state, where the "professors" get together and set those.

Truth Detector
02-05-2016, 02:03 PM
My youngest son spent/wasted a year attending Evergreen State College up in Washington state - motto (and I'm not kidding) "Omnia Extares" ("Let it all hang out"). Apropos of its motto, the school mascot was a freshwater clam called the geoduck, which looks like an oddly-shaped penis. Curriculum and course content were about what you'd expect: new age vagueness meets the diversity of uselessness.

After a year up there, even he, at 19, realized that it was a complete waste of time and money, regardless of how easy the experience - or perhaps because of that. He started from scratch at a state college here in Arizona, NAU - started out wanting to major in Political Science, but eventually settled on journalism. He graduated last Spring, and within a month had a paying gig as a full-time working reporter.

Not all university experiences are the same, obviously. Even more so, a student's attitude, character and other personal attributes and qualities are vital in determining how much, if anything, he or she will get out of attending. A kid who wants to be challenged and be improved will be. College can be a unique and valuable training ground for the real world, if approached with the right attitude, and not seen as just a way to postpone having to go out into that real world for a few years.

Northern Arizona University Flaggstaff is a great school in a great location.. My youngest attended there for one year.

Ethereal
02-05-2016, 02:17 PM
When I worked at the local university, not once did I see professors get together and "raise prices". That's an absurd statement. State university salaries are set by the state. Or is it different in your state, where the "professors" get together and set those.

Nobody cares what you saw or did not see. The fact is that college professors have lobbying groups and unions that pressure the government to raise salaries and benefits, and salaries and benefits are one of the main drivers of increased tuition. To suggest otherwise is ignorant or dishonest.

Ethereal
02-05-2016, 02:20 PM
AAUPCBC (http://www.aaupcbc.org/): The union arm of the AAUP, the largest lobbying organization for American college professors.

Gee, I wonder what their agenda is?

Matty
02-05-2016, 02:24 PM
`
I see two problems here, a) High Schools not preparing students for college and b) most importantly, colleges admitting these students. None of this is a reason not to allow qualified individuals from going to college for free.


Yes it is. Nothing is free. It costs somebody.

Matty
02-05-2016, 02:26 PM
So we have " free" pre K through 12 th grades and the educators are not preparing the students but the taxpayer should ante up for more " free" education. Now that's just an un educated move on democrats part.

The Xl
02-05-2016, 02:32 PM
It's a pay to play glorified scam at this point. Go in massive debt so you can get a piece of paper and maybe a decent job.

Mac-7
02-05-2016, 02:48 PM
When I worked at the local university, not once did I see professors get together and "raise prices". That's an absurd statement. State university salaries are set by the state. Or is it different in your state, where the "professors" get together and set those.

Everyone in the higher education racket has a vested interest in raising prices.

The adminstative suits in the front office recommend higher pay for the professors knowing that a rising tide for the profs lifts all boats, including theirs.

If the state objects to raising costs the educators put the word out to parents and alumni that the stingy republicans at the capital are denying poor little johnny and jane an education.

And it works almost every time.

Common Sense
02-05-2016, 02:53 PM
Education is overpriced.

The greedy professors keep raising prices and the only debate is how are the kids going to find the money to pay for it.

LOL...your perception of reality is so far out there.

Ethereal
02-05-2016, 02:58 PM
LOL...your perception of reality is so far out there.

So university professors' salaries and benefits aren't one of the drivers of increased tuition costs? University professors don't belong to lobbying organizations and unions that pressure politicians to raise their salaries and benefits while subsidizing their profession?

domer76
02-05-2016, 03:14 PM
When are people going to realize that these government intrusions into the market are just elaborate rackets? There is an entire for-profit industry that is based on this education subsidization racket, and it mostly involves politicians, administrators, professors, and textbook manufactures who are lining their pockets with hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars.

Definitely agree on the textbook people

domer76
02-05-2016, 03:17 PM
So we have " free" pre K through 12 th grades and the educators are not preparing the students but the taxpayer should ante up for more " free" education. Now that's just an un educated move on democrats part.

You should look at the parents as the major reason Johnny can't read.

Common Sense
02-05-2016, 03:25 PM
I think what probably skews those results are those horrible and utterly useless for profit private "colleges". The degrees people get from those places are useless. They also account for a massive portion of student debt.

Peter1469
02-05-2016, 03:28 PM
College are money machines its more about Profit than it is Education. If getting drunk doing drugs and having orgies keeps the kids happy and paying tuition so be it.

It is like that for the first two years of college, then the classes are more focused and serious. The freshman class especially is seen as a cash cow.

Peter1469
02-05-2016, 03:30 PM
`
I see two problems here, a) High Schools not preparing students for college and b) most importantly, colleges admitting these students. None of this is a reason not to allow qualified individuals from going to college for free.


Except there is no reason to expect that a and b are going to be fixed.

Matty
02-05-2016, 03:32 PM
You should look at the parents as the major reason Johnny can't read.


Why? What do we pay teachers to do?

domer76
02-05-2016, 03:33 PM
Only an economic illiterate would deny the fact that professor salaries and benefits are a substantial driver of increased tuition costs.

You act as if they all make CEO salaries. What would you pay for a Ph.D in your organization? $30,000 with no benefits? Sounds like it.

Peter1469
02-05-2016, 03:34 PM
Education is overpriced.

The greedy professors keep raising prices and the only debate is how are the kids going to find the money to pay for it.

The prices spiked when the federal government decided it was smart to use tax dollars to guarantee student loans. Here is an article that easily applies to law school debt because of the competitiveness and the ranking systems. But it might apply to college as well.

A way to discharge student debt in bankruptcy (http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/can_once_obscure_borrower_defense_help_law_grads_e rase_student_debt/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=navigation&utm_campaign=most_read)

It would be a more powerful check on rising costs of education if taxpayers weren't on the hook.


A once-obscure federal law is being cited by more than 7,500 borrowers who are applying to have their student debt erased because their schools allegedly used illegal recruiting tactics.

The law provides for forgiveness of debt borrowed from the federal government’s Direct Loan program when schools violate a state law during the recruiting process, the Wall Street Journal (http://www.wsj.com/articles/thousands-apply-to-u-s-to-forgive-their-student-loans-saying-schools-defrauded-them-1453285800) (sub. req.) reported last month. An example would be a school that lies about how many of its graduates landed jobs, the Wall Street Journal says in a companion article (http://blogs.wsj.com/briefly/2016/01/20/student-debt-forgiveness-for-victims-of-school-fraud-at-a-glance/).


The law doesn’t provide specifics on what is needed to prove fraud by a school. The U.S. Education Department is drafting rules to provide clarification. The rules will also address when the department can seek to claw back forgiven loans from the schools.

Read more at the link.

domer76
02-05-2016, 03:36 PM
I think what probably skews those results are those horrible and utterly useless for profit private "colleges". The degrees people get from those places are useless. They also account for a massive portion of student debt.

That's EXACTLY where the student debt crisis began. But the capitalists won't admit it.

Peter1469
02-05-2016, 03:36 PM
On Sunday


Notice: Thread banned at the request of the thread owner.

Common Sense
02-05-2016, 03:38 PM
So university professors' salaries and benefits aren't one of the drivers of increased tuition costs? University professors don't belong to lobbying organizations and unions that pressure politicians to raise their salaries and benefits while subsidizing their profession?

It's a factor, but Mac makes it seem like profs are greedy and are the ones who dictate tuition.

The fact is, if you want qualified professors, you have to pay for them. Unless you want idiots, you have to lure them away from the private sector with attractive salaries.

domer76
02-05-2016, 03:38 PM
Why? What do we pay teachers to do?

They can't do everything. Or do you expect them to wipe your kid's ass, too? Or perhaps that's part of YOUR responsibility as a parent.

Peter1469
02-05-2016, 03:39 PM
Definitely agree on the textbook people

Professors like to write their own text books and then create a new edition ever year or two. That is a "neat" revenue source for them.

Peter1469
02-05-2016, 03:40 PM
I think what probably skews those results are those horrible and utterly useless for profit private "colleges". The degrees people get from those places are useless. They also account for a massive portion of student debt.

I posted a link to the top 100 colleges in the world in the original post. Check out the top 10. All but two are American. And those 8 are for profit (or most of them are).

The for profit thing is pathological.

Common Sense
02-05-2016, 03:44 PM
I posted a link to the top 100 colleges in the world in the original post. Check out the top 10. All but two are American. And those 8 are for profit (or most of them are).

The for profit thing is pathological.

You misunderstand. Harvard and all the others listed are non profit universities. I'm speaking of the Devrys and Everest college type schools.

What universities on the list do you think are for profit?

AeonPax
02-05-2016, 03:47 PM
Free tuition isnt free I guess you are ok paying for illegal immigrant kids to get free tuiton too we already give them free public school. No one can afford free anymore except the 2%
`
Of course it isn't free, money doesn't grow on trees. Tax dollars are paying for it. It's a good investment in our nations people. Better this than war.

Common Sense
02-05-2016, 03:48 PM
`
Of course it isn't free, money doesn't grow on trees. Tax dollars are paying for it. It's a good investment in our nations people. Better this than war.

Could you imagine the same amount of money was spent on education that is spent on war and defense?

Peter1469
02-05-2016, 03:48 PM
You misunderstand. Harvard and all the others listed are non profit universities. I'm speaking of the Devrys and Everest college type schools.

What universities on the list do you think are for profit?

Are you thinking private versus public?

Peter1469
02-05-2016, 03:51 PM
Harvard claims it is non-profit, yet it is the richest university in the world (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/09/take-away-harvards-nonprofit-status.html)!

Common Sense
02-05-2016, 03:51 PM
Are you thinking private versus public?

No, I'm saying for profit vs. not for profit. Most private universities like Harvard are private non profit universities. Schools like the University of Phoenix and a lot of those "career institutes" are for profit colleges. They account for a huge amount of student debt. They also spend a ton on lobbying.

Peter1469
02-05-2016, 03:52 PM
`
Of course it isn't free, money doesn't grow on trees. Tax dollars are paying for it. It's a good investment in our nations people. Better this than war.

War spending is a meme. It is temporary as well.

Free college would make sense if college entrance was tightly controlled for those able, along with approved courses of study- linked to productive jobs after graduation.

Common Sense
02-05-2016, 03:52 PM
Harvard claims it is non-profit, yet it is the richest university in the world (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/09/take-away-harvards-nonprofit-status.html)!

Yes, but it's a non profit school. It doesn't have shareholders. The money it has goes back into the school.

It's a non profit as are all the others on the list of top schools.

AeonPax
02-05-2016, 03:53 PM
That's nice. However, instead of forcing millions of other Americans to do something just because you don't mind doing it, maybe you should just get out your checkbook and and stand outside the enrollment office of some school and start writing checks and leave the rest of us alone.
`
While I don't really think a President Bernie Sanders could actually pull this off, I am for the idea.

Peter1469
02-05-2016, 03:53 PM
No, I'm saying for profit vs. not for profit. Most private universities like Harvard are private non profit universities. Schools like the University of Phoenix and a lot of those "career institutes" are for profit colleges. They account for a huge amount of student debt. They also spend a ton on lobbying.

Harvard misuses the tax laws. But I see what you mean now. There could be more regulation on the quality of schools. Or even transparency.

AeonPax
02-05-2016, 04:03 PM
Except there is no reason to expect that a and b are going to be fixed.
`
I should have been more explicit, I meant "public high schools."

AeonPax
02-05-2016, 04:05 PM
Could you imagine the same amount of money was spent on education that is spent on war and defense?
`
The ruling class would not be happy. Educated people are hard to control.

AeonPax
02-05-2016, 04:08 PM
War spending is a meme. It is temporary as well.Free college would make sense if college entrance was tightly controlled for those able, along with approved courses of study- linked to productive jobs after graduation.
`
I have no problem with that. You have to draw the line somewhere.

domer76
02-05-2016, 04:39 PM
Professors like to write their own text books and then create a new edition ever year or two. That is a "neat" revenue source for them.

Yes it is.

domer76
02-05-2016, 04:40 PM
I posted a link to the top 100 colleges in the world in the original post. Check out the top 10. All but two are American. And those 8 are for profit (or most of them are).

The for profit thing is pathological.

You don't know what the "for profit" colleges are?

Cletus
02-05-2016, 04:47 PM
You act as if they all make CEO salaries. What would you pay for a Ph.D in your organization? $30,000 with no benefits? Sounds like it.

It would all depend on how much benefit he is to me. Merely having a Ph.D means nothing to me.

domer76
02-05-2016, 05:05 PM
It would all depend on how much benefit he is to me. Merely having a Ph.D means nothing to me.

Except it DOES in a university, doesn't it? Up it to $40,000 with no benefits? Is that too much?

Mac-7
02-05-2016, 05:18 PM
Yes, but it's a non profit school. It doesn't have shareholders. The money it has goes back into the school.

It's a non profit as are all the others on the list of top schools.

So greedy education administrators and professors taking advantage of the public is ok so long as its not those evil capitalist pigs?

domer76
02-05-2016, 06:18 PM
So greedy education administrators and professors taking advantage of the public is ok so long as its not those evil capitalist pigs?

I would't give a Stevens-Heneger grad a second look. It's unfortunate that so many have been lured into that and can't get a job. Then have all that debt.

Dr. Who
02-05-2016, 06:45 PM
Only an economic illiterate would deny the fact that professor salaries and benefits are a substantial driver of increased tuition costs.
Perhaps technology could be a solution, requiring fewer, but better professors, but more access to lessons via the internet. This would create more need for intermediate educational personnel at more reasonable rates of pay.

Dr. Who
02-05-2016, 06:46 PM
It's really simple.

The government is subsidizing college educations, which results in a lot people who are not suited to college going to college anyway. Naturally, a lot of these people fail out of college, and in the process, drive up tuition costs for the people who actually are suited to college.

Ultimately, it's just another example of the unintended consequences of government central planning. They cause the cost of college to explode and they incentivize millions of people to waste their time attending an institution that they were never suited to in the first place.
However therein lies the dilemma. If humans are not all academically inclined and the kind of work that non-academics are best suited disappears, what then?

Dr. Who
02-05-2016, 06:52 PM
AAUPCBC (http://www.aaupcbc.org/): The union arm of the AAUP, the largest lobbying organization for American college professors.

Gee, I wonder what their agenda is?
You also miss another cause of rising educational prices - the fact that basically all of the top ranking universities, where your degree opens doors, are privately owned:
http://www.languagemonitor.com/top-colleges/top-private-us-universities-2013-2/

donttread
02-05-2016, 07:06 PM
College fails 2/3rd of students (http://www.realclearpolicy.com/blog/2016/02/04/colleges_fail_two-thirds_of_students_1542.html)

An interesting article consider the recent demands for free college. Of course a lot matters based upon what college you go to. The US still dominates the top 100 colleges in the world (http://www.thebestschools.org/features/100-best-universities-in-world-today/).

But, but it all supports the banks and keeps unemployment rates down while the kids attend college

Standing Wolf
02-05-2016, 07:33 PM
Educated people are hard to control.

You got that right.

http://youtu.be/OJAuVQlLxD0

AeonPax
02-05-2016, 07:36 PM
You got that right.
`
Your point?

kilgram
02-05-2016, 07:54 PM
I love these threads where people show their true faces.

Greediness and not caring for anybody except themselves and people who care for their fellow citizens and want the best for all.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

Matty
02-05-2016, 07:56 PM
Yeah right. I knew that was coming. The you are greedy bullshit arguement.

kilgram
02-05-2016, 07:58 PM
Yeah right. I knew that was coming. The you are greedy bullshit arguement.
What is bullshit is the shit that conservative repeat from the XIX century and have been proven wrong one time and another.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

Truth Detector
02-05-2016, 08:03 PM
What is bull$#@! is the $#@! that conservative repeat from the XIX century and have been proven wrong one time and another.

The only thing proven historically to be a failure is Socialism and it's bigger brother Communism. But in order to see and understand this REALITY, one must first open ones tightly closed eyes.

But hey, we get it. Preaching self reliance and limited Government is bothersome to Fascist lefties like yourself who want to dictate to everyone what is best for them.

kilgram
02-05-2016, 08:06 PM
The only thing proven historically to be a failure is Socialism and it's bigger brother Communism. But in order to see and understand this REALITY, one must first open ones tightly closed eyes.

But hey, we get it. Preaching self reliance and limited Government is bothersome to Fascist lefties like yourself who want to dictate to everyone what is best for them.
Yeah big failures. Proven that the most prosperous lands in this world are the ones with more socialism. Where there is less crime, less inequality and more social mobility.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk

MisterVeritis
02-05-2016, 08:06 PM
`
I see two problems here, a) High Schools not preparing students for college and b) most importantly, colleges admitting these students. None of this is a reason not to allow qualified individuals from going to college for free.
How are you going to get the professors to indoctrinate the kids for free? Let's just insist that all professors and the hundreds of school administrators all work for free. Then your utopian dream can become a reality.

Truth Detector
02-05-2016, 08:07 PM
I love these threads where people show their true faces.

Greediness and not caring for anybody except themselves and people who care for their fellow citizens and want the best for all.

I'm amused by the asinine Marxist dogma that suggests enslaving citizens making them wards of the State is what is best for everyone.

Obama has made Wallstreet bankers far richer while literally destroying the lower those at the lower economic end over the last seven years. Only willful idiots can continue to defend this stupidity.

kilgram
02-05-2016, 08:08 PM
I'm amused by the asinine Marxist dogma that suggests enslaving citizens making them wards of the State is what is best for everyone.

Obama has made Wallstreet bankers far richer while literally destroying the lower those at the lower economic end over the last seven years. Only willful idiots can continue to defend this stupidity.
Obama is capitalist. Very far from being close to any socialist idea.

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Truth Detector
02-05-2016, 08:14 PM
Yeah big failures. Proven that the most prosperous lands in this world are the ones with more socialism.

Now you're erupting with pure unadulterated bullsh!t. The US is far and away the most prosperous nation with the greatest Liberty on the planet. We didn't become that way by stealing the wealth of those who earn it and giving it to those who are pandered to by dishonest professional politicians.


Where there is less crime, less inequality and more social mobility.

Yep; France is a leftist utopia where terrorists armed with fully automatic weapons gun down hundreds in the streets of Paris. Let's also not forget two global conflagrations that were started in these socialist utopian societies.

Let's be honest here; the reason you're a Marxist is because you're economically and historically clueless.

Truth Detector
02-05-2016, 08:15 PM
Obama is capitalist. Very far from being close to any socialist idea.

Another incredibly dumb claim; but Marxists are quite full of them.

kilgram
02-05-2016, 08:17 PM
Another incredibly dumb claim; but Marxists are quite full of them.
I am not Marxist. I am socialist but not Marxist.

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kilgram
02-05-2016, 08:21 PM
Now you're erupting with pure unadulterated bullsh!t. The US is far and away the most prosperous nation with the greatest Liberty on the planet. We didn't become that way by stealing the wealth of those who earn it and giving it to those who are pandered to by dishonest professional politicians.



Yep; France is a leftist utopia where terrorists armed with fully automatic weapons gun down hundreds in the streets of Paris. Let's also not forget two global conflagrations that were started in these socialist utopian societies.

Let's be honest here; the reason you're a Marxist is because you're economically and historically clueless.
I've never talked about USA. And obviously with the prosperity argument I didn't pretend to include USA with his high levels of poverty, inequality...

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Mac-7
02-05-2016, 09:09 PM
Obama is capitalist. Very far from being close to any socialist idea.



A capitalist huh?

Dumbo never made a payrole in his life.

I'm not even sure he ever had a job in the private sector.

He's a cradle to grave welfare baby.

Common Sense
02-05-2016, 10:02 PM
A capitalist huh?

Dumbo never made a payrole in his life.

I'm not even sure he ever had a job in the private sector.

He's a cradle to grave welfare baby.

He's made quite a bit of money. Do you have $7 million?

Standing Wolf
02-05-2016, 10:08 PM
Your point?

You wrote that educated people are hold to control...and I understand what you meant by that. Where I think the sentiment is inappropriate in this context lies in the fact that attending college, even graduating, is something very different from being educated. We have seen some of the most childish, ridiculous and ignorant behavior coming out of college campuses in recent times - sometimes from the faculty, people with advanced degrees.

domer76
02-05-2016, 10:39 PM
You wrote that educated people are hold to control...and I understand what you meant by that. Where I think the sentiment is inappropriate in this context lies in the fact that attending college, even graduating, is something very different from being educated. We have seen some of the most childish, ridiculous and ignorant behavior coming out of college campuses in recent times - sometimes from the faculty, people with advanced degrees.

They appear hard to control, don't they?

Dr. Who
02-05-2016, 10:54 PM
School, grades K to 12 and beyond need now to target core skills that will be needed in the future. They cannot exist as quasi-babysitting services. Life is about to get really difficult with people competing with technology for jobs. If people want to be employed they will have to bring something to the table that cannot be replicated by computer programs or robots.

Common
02-05-2016, 11:01 PM
School, grades K to 12 and beyond need now to target core skills that will be needed in the future. They cannot exist as quasi-babysitting services. Life is about to get really difficult with people competing with technology for jobs. If people want to be employed they will have to bring something to the table that cannot be replicated by computer programs or robots.

Too many parents or awol parents not prepared or capable to prepare their kids for it. School cannot replace the basics of parenting. The problem is schools are incapable of preparing students for college and they are giving diplomas to kids that failed most everything because they do nothing and kids that are absent 100 days out of 180 just to keep their statistics rosey. Those kids given diplomas cannot pass college in two lifetimes. People expect schools and teachers to do their jobs and the parents jobs it cant be done.

Dr. Who
02-05-2016, 11:08 PM
Too many parents or awol parents not prepared or capable to prepare their kids for it. School cannot replace the basics of parenting. The problem is schools are incapable of preparing students for college and they are giving diplomas to kids that failed most everything because they do nothing and kids that are absent 100 days out of 180 just to keep their statistics rosey. Those kids given diplomas cannot pass college in two lifetimes. People expect schools and teachers to do their jobs and the parents jobs it cant be done.
They aren't preparing their kids for the current reality, nevermind the huge changes to come. People need to be educated as to the changes coming in the near future if they want their kids to have any chance at all. You can't depend on the government to figure it out. They are always about 10 years behind.

Peter1469
02-06-2016, 02:20 AM
But, but it all supports the banks and keeps unemployment rates down while the kids attend college

Kids in college often get lumped into the not seeking work category and don't show up in the unemployment rates.

Peter1469
02-06-2016, 02:24 AM
Yeah big failures. Proven that the most prosperous lands in this world are the ones with more socialism. Where there is less crime, less inequality and more social mobility.

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There are many other factors than the economic system to consider with these nations.

Mac-7
02-06-2016, 06:08 AM
They aren't preparing their kids for the current reality, nevermind the huge changes to come. People need to be educated as to the changes coming in the near future if they want their kids to have any chance at all. You can't depend on the government to figure it out. They are always about 10 years behind.

Society is in the midst of a long downward slide.

Todays under-40 parents cant teach their children common truths that were not taught to them by their clueless hippy-dippy baby boomer parents.

AeonPax
02-06-2016, 08:01 AM
You wrote that educated people are hold to control...and I understand what you meant by that. Where I think the sentiment is inappropriate in this context lies in the fact that attending college, even graduating, is something very different from being educated. We have seen some of the most childish, ridiculous and ignorant behavior coming out of college campuses in recent times - sometimes from the faculty, people with advanced degrees.
`
Acting childish or inappropriately does NOT result from education, or the lack of it. It's a human characteristic. Try again.

Common
02-06-2016, 08:06 AM
This all breaks down to a simplicity, its not a complex issue. If a student cannot do HS level work and you give them a diploma they are doomed to fail in college.

There are colleges and universities that money is the first priority education is second and there are DUDS that graduate from college.

A BS or BA is what a high school diploma used to be in value. There are duds that get a diploma across the board in every field of study. Education is only as good as the student in the end.

Peter1469
02-06-2016, 09:57 AM
This all breaks down to a simplicity, its not a complex issue. If a student cannot do HS level work and you give them a diploma they are doomed to fail in college.

There are colleges and universities that money is the first priority education is second and there are DUDS that graduate from college.

A BS or BA is what a high school diploma used to be in value. There are duds that get a diploma across the board in every field of study. Education is only as good as the student in the end.

Right, and the fetish to send everyone for free will make matters worse. Politicians will not put controls in place to make sure only suitable people get the free ride to college. They will let all in to be fair. Standards will lower. Costs will skyrocket. And graduates will be unemployable.

MisterVeritis
02-06-2016, 10:17 AM
I love these threads where people show their true faces.

Greediness and not caring for anybody except themselves and people who care for their fellow citizens and want the best for all.

Kilgram that is exactly what I was thinking about you. In your world, it is not greedy to plunder those people who produce wealth. Instead, in the fantasy world you live in the greedy ones are the ones who refuse to be plundered.

If you want more then you must become worth more. Stop justifying your evil desire to steal from everybody.

MisterVeritis
02-06-2016, 10:19 AM
Obama is capitalist. Very far from being close to any socialist idea.


You live in a fascinating world where up is down. Foul is fair. Life is death. Lies are truth. Awesome.

Peter1469
02-06-2016, 10:20 AM
Kilgram that is exactly what I was thinking about you. In your world, it is not greedy to plunder those people who produce wealth. Instead, in the fantasy world you live in the greedy ones are the ones who refuse to be plundered.

If you want more then you must become worth more. Stop justifying your evil desire to steal from everybody.

I agree with the caveat that we need a safety net for those who fall through the cracks due to no fault of their own.

(Not a hammock)

Truth Detector
02-06-2016, 10:22 AM
Right, and the fetish to send everyone for free will make matters worse. Politicians will not put controls in place to make sure only suitable people get the free ride to college. They will let all in to be fair. Standards will lower. Costs will skyrocket. And graduates will be unemployable.

Bernie and his dullard supporters are too stupid to comprehend the OBVIOUS expressed above.

This also applies to FREE healthcare, FREE housing, FREE food stamps; not to mention it isn't actually FREE at all.

MisterVeritis
02-06-2016, 10:23 AM
I agree with the caveat that we need a safety net for those who fall through the cracks due to no fault of their own.

(Not a hammock)
Once you give a bureaucrat the ability to decide that plunder is acceptable we end up where we are today.

Truth Detector
02-06-2016, 10:25 AM
I agree with the caveat that we need a safety net for those who fall through the cracks due to no fault of their own.

(Not a hammock)

But who will be this Federal "decider" of "no fault of their own?" That's the problem; things like this used to be handled by local communities and churches.

Today, the sheeple have been indoctrinated to think this is a Federal matter. But it isn't; you can't find it in the Constitution.

Truth Detector
02-06-2016, 10:27 AM
Once you give a bureaucrat the ability to decide that plunder is acceptable we end up where we are today.

^Spot on. It's always refreshing to see people who "get" it.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/good-job.gif

MisterVeritis
02-06-2016, 10:29 AM
^Spot on. It's always refreshing to see people who "get" it.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/good-job.gif
I think it is time to rewatch the Potter movies.

Peter1469
02-06-2016, 10:35 AM
Once you give a bureaucrat the ability to decide that plunder is acceptable we end up where we are today.

Only if we allow it.

Fight the battles you can win- you will never eliminate a safety net. And do you really want to?

MisterVeritis
02-06-2016, 10:45 AM
Only if we allow it.

Fight the battles you can win- you will never eliminate a safety net. And do you really want to?
The Constitution makes NO provision for a "safety" net. Yes. I want safety nets eliminated.

The states and local governments have sufficient, legitimate powers, constrained by the citizens, to perform this role.

Surrender prior to battle is what got us to the place we find ourselves today.

Mac-7
02-06-2016, 10:48 AM
Only if we allow it.

Fight the battles you can win- you will never eliminate a safety net. And do you really want to?

I agree there are too many bleeding heart liberals to end the safety net/welfare hammock

but we should never give up and never try to reduce it.

Common
02-06-2016, 12:30 PM
Right, and the fetish to send everyone for free will make matters worse. Politicians will not put controls in place to make sure only suitable people get the free ride to college. They will let all in to be fair. Standards will lower. Costs will skyrocket. And graduates will be unemployable.

The problem with free is that its not free and why should we have billionaires kids go to college for free. Theres other issues with free. Is Harvard going to be free ? Yale etc.

When students fail the taxpayers pay for a year or two at great cost for a worthless result.

kilgram
02-06-2016, 12:35 PM
The problem with free is that its not free and why should we have billionaires kids go to college for free. Theres other issues with free. Is Harvard going to be free ? Yale etc.

When students fail the taxpayers pay for a year or two at great cost for a worthless result.
There can be private and public universities.

There is place for both. Having the public education being free and the private as always. And let compete between them which one gets the better results.

In Europe public universities are better than private in academic results. Private universities have better installations.

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Mac-7
02-06-2016, 01:06 PM
There can be private and public universities.

There is place for both. Having the public education being free and the private as always. And let compete between them which one gets the better results.

In Europe public universities are better than private in academic results. Private universities have better installations.

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I dont think the dope smoking hippies who took over the education system in America fully understand the european education model they are trying to copy.

Because they sure are not getting the same results

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 01:37 PM
I think what probably skews those results are those horrible and utterly useless for profit private "colleges". The degrees people get from those places are useless. They also account for a massive portion of student debt.

Huh? Some of the best colleges in the country are private colleges. And some of the crappiest most worthless colleges are public institutions. And just because a college is public doesn't mean they're immune from profit motives. It's not like people working at public colleges work for free.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 01:39 PM
You act as if they all make CEO salaries. What would you pay for a Ph.D in your organization? $30,000 with no benefits? Sounds like it.

I never said they make CEO salaries. And the amount I would pay them all depends on supply and demand.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 01:42 PM
It's a factor, but Mac makes it seem like profs are greedy and are the ones who dictate tuition.

The fact is, if you want qualified professors, you have to pay for them. Unless you want idiots, you have to lure them away from the private sector with attractive salaries.

They definitely influence tuition rates through their lobbying and unions.

And qualified to do what? Teach people about African American studies?

http://catalog.uic.edu/ucat/course-descriptions/aast/

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 01:45 PM
You misunderstand. Harvard and all the others listed are non profit universities. I'm speaking of the Devrys and Everest college type schools.

What universities on the list do you think are for profit?

C'mon...

You think that because they call themselves "non-profit" that makes it true? The administrators and professors don't work for free. They all profit from their employment. That's rather the point of being employed, isn't it?

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 01:54 PM
Except it DOES in a university, doesn't it? Up it to $40,000 with no benefits? Is that too much?

$40,000? You must have worked at a pretty marginal university. A professor of African American Studies at University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign makes a minimum of $128,728 a year: University of Illinois Faculty Salary Study (page 70) (https://www.pb.uillinois.edu/Documents/FY16-Salary-Book.pdf)

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 01:58 PM
Perhaps technology could be a solution, requiring fewer, but better professors, but more access to lessons via the internet. This would create more need for intermediate educational personnel at more reasonable rates of pay.

The solution is to stop comprehensively subsidizing college education and telling everyone they need to go to college. The other solution is to stop promoting absurd disciplines like "African American Studies" as a serious form of education that will make someone employable in the future. The traditional role of college was to educate intellectuals in things like writing, mathematics, science, and history, not to indoctrinate the fat portion of the bell curve in Marxist ideology.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 02:01 PM
However therein lies the dilemma. If humans are not all academically inclined and the kind of work that non-academics are best suited disappears, what then?

Then we will enjoy the immense prosperity that results from ultra cheap goods and services. People will be more free under such circumstances to dawdle away studying art and literature than they are right now.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 02:04 PM
You also miss another cause of rising educational prices - the fact that basically all of the top ranking universities, where your degree opens doors, are privately owned:
http://www.languagemonitor.com/top-colleges/top-private-us-universities-2013-2/

It doesn't matter where you get your degree from if your degree is in engineering or network support. You will get a job right away. But if your degree is in something stupid, like Gender and Women's Studies, then you will probably end up working at Starbucks.

And if you think the problem is private universities, then you haven't done much research on the state of public universities. Feel free to peruse some of the salaries contained in this study of the University of Illinois college system and then tell me if they aren't also part of the problem: https://www.pb.uillinois.edu/Documents/FY16-Salary-Book.pdf

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 02:05 PM
I love these threads where people show their true faces.

Greediness and not caring for anybody except themselves and people who care for their fellow citizens and want the best for all.

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I love threads where people think they're being generous because they volunteer other people's money to pay for something. That's not being generous, that's being a thief.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 02:08 PM
They appear hard to control, don't they?

Since when have leftists wanted citizens who are hard to control?

kilgram
02-06-2016, 02:29 PM
I love threads where people think they're being generous because they volunteer other people's money to pay for something. That's not being generous, that's being a thief.
We Agree that we disagree.

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Dr. Who
02-06-2016, 02:48 PM
It doesn't matter where you get your degree from if your degree is in engineering or network support. You will get a job right away. But if your degree is in something stupid, like Gender and Women's Studies, then you will probably end up working at Starbucks.

And if you think the problem is private universities, then you haven't done much research on the state of public universities. Feel free to peruse some of the salaries contained in this study of the University of Illinois college system and then tell me if they aren't also part of the problem: https://www.pb.uillinois.edu/Documents/FY16-Salary-Book.pdf
I do agree that there are some degrees that don't qualify you for much, other than teaching, unless it has some transferable value in business, such as in human resource work. As to the salaries, if you consider that all of the higher salaried professors are generally over the age of 50 and likely have doctorate degrees and that in the real world, they would likely be making even more money, the wages are not really unreasonable. You will not get a professor of medicine at a 50K/annum wage.

kilgram
02-06-2016, 02:50 PM
C'mon...

You think that because they call themselves "non-profit" that makes it true? The administrators and professors don't work for free. They all profit from their employment. That's rather the point of being employed, isn't it?
Nonprofit does not mean working for free.

Seriously, what the hell are you taught there?

If they call themselves "non-profit" it should be true, otherwise they would be commiting fraud.

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kilgram
02-06-2016, 02:53 PM
Since when have leftists wanted citizens who are hard to control?

Since forever. Because leftism looked for the self-emancipation of the people. So, it is that they think for themselves.

For this is so important to give education to everybody.

The right is interested in non-educated people because they are easier to use for slave-labor and how much less their minds are free, the better, so their best interest is having uneducated working people with few free time.

Mac-7
02-06-2016, 03:32 PM
Since forever. Because leftism looked for the self-emancipation of the people. So, it is that they think for themselves.

For this is so important to give education to everybody.

The right is interested in non-educated people because they are easier to use for slave-labor and how much less their minds are free, the better, so their best interest is having uneducated working people with few free time.

You have a warped view of the world.

The right has the same goals for people as leftists do.

the difference is we want individuals to be productive and earn what they get

whereas leftists want government to assign wealth equally

kilgram
02-06-2016, 03:40 PM
You have a warped view of the world.

The right has the same goals for people as leftists do.

the difference is we want individuals to be productive and earn what they get

whereas leftists want government to assign wealth equally
Maybe the difference is where the left and the right set the minimum of quality of life.

The right does not have problem in leaving people starving to death. And the left sets the minimum on having basic shelter, clothes, food, education and healthcare. And from those basic according to your skills get better things as reward of your efficiency and productivity.

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Ethereal
02-06-2016, 04:36 PM
I do agree that there are some degrees that don't qualify you for much, other than teaching, unless it has some transferable value in business, such as in human resource work. As to the salaries, if you consider that all of the higher salaried professors are generally over the age of 50 and likely have doctorate degrees and that in the real world, they would likely be making even more money, the wages are not really unreasonable. You will not get a professor of medicine at a 50K/annum wage.

I highly doubt someone with a Ph.D in African American Studies or Gender and Women's Studies would be making over $100,000 per year in the private sector. I doubt they would be making $20,000 per year in the private sector.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 04:38 PM
Nonprofit does not mean working for free.

Seriously, what the hell are you taught there?

If they call themselves "non-profit" it should be true, otherwise they would be commiting fraud.

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I'm taught the correct definition of words, unlike you. The entire purpose of working in exchange for compensation is profit.

domer76
02-06-2016, 04:40 PM
$40,000? You must have worked at a pretty marginal university. A professor of African American Studies at University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign makes a minimum of $128,728 a year: University of Illinois Faculty Salary Study (page 70) (https://www.pb.uillinois.edu/Documents/FY16-Salary-Book.pdf)

It was a question, pal. Not a statement. And not directed to you, either.

$128,000 a year? Mid-management level at some of the major corporations here in Boise. The engineers at Micron here make at least that. Not Ph.Ds either.

Next

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 04:42 PM
It was a question, pal. Not a statement. And not directed to you, either.

$128,000 a year? Mid-management level at some of the major corporations here in Boise. The engineers at Micron here make at least that. Not Ph.Ds either.

Next

Next what? Are you actually comparing corporate executives and engineers to someone with a Ph.D in African American Studies?

Peter1469
02-06-2016, 04:43 PM
I dont think the dope smoking hippies who took over the education system in America fully understand the european education model they are trying to copy.

Because they sure are not getting the same results

European universities rank below most American universities.

domer76
02-06-2016, 04:44 PM
I highly doubt someone with a Ph.D in African American Studies or Gender and Women's Studies would be making over $100,000 per year in the private sector. I doubt they would be making $20,000 per year in the private sector.

Who the fuck are you kidding with that absurd claim? Oh, that's right. Yourself

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 04:46 PM
Who the $#@! are you kidding with that absurd claim? Oh, that's right. Yourself

:rofl:

Domer thinks a Ph.D in African American Studies or Gender and Women's Studies would make $100,000 in the private sector! Hilarious!

No, I'm sure there are a lot of corporations out there looking for people to bloviate about institutional racism and sexism all day... :rollseyes:

domer76
02-06-2016, 04:46 PM
Next what? Are you actually comparing corporate executives and engineers to someone with a Ph.D in African American Studies?

I'm making a statement about a person, not even in upper management, most likely with a BS, to someone who has earned a Ph.D. Having difficulty following?

kilgram
02-06-2016, 04:47 PM
I'm taught the correct definition of words, unlike you. The entire purpose of working in exchange for compensation is profit.
You don't know what is a nonprofit association.

You can work (being paid) and continuing being nonprofit driving.

A nonprofit can have volunteers and paid workers depending of the needs. The difference is that the incomes must be used to pay the costs and not getting profit.

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Peter1469
02-06-2016, 04:47 PM
Since forever. Because leftism looked for the self-emancipation of the people. So, it is that they think for themselves.

For this is so important to give education to everybody.

The right is interested in non-educated people because they are easier to use for slave-labor and how much less their minds are free, the better, so their best interest is having uneducated working people with few free time.


Not in America. Leftists seek for a nanny state. I suspect the same is true there in Europe.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 04:47 PM
This company is in desperate need of someone to come in and tell us how we're all racist and sexist and transphobic. We don't get enough of that here at our engineering firm.

:rofl:

domer76
02-06-2016, 04:48 PM
I'm taught the correct definition of words, unlike you. The entire purpose of working in exchange for compensation is profit.

Go slap the person that taught you the definition of a non-profit. Either they, or you, fucked up

Dr. Who
02-06-2016, 04:48 PM
I highly doubt someone with a Ph.D in African American Studies or Gender and Women's Studies would be making over $100,000 per year in the private sector. I doubt they would be making $20,000 per year in the private sector.
Perhaps not, but the bulk of the educational departments are not without practical applications. However, people with those degrees that you mentione sometimes do find employment in HR or with government or in some other quasi-related field.

Peter1469
02-06-2016, 04:49 PM
Maybe the difference is where the left and the right set the minimum of quality of life.

The right does not have problem in leaving people starving to death. And the left sets the minimum on having basic shelter, clothes, food, education and healthcare. And from those basic according to your skills get better things as reward of your efficiency and productivity.

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It sounds like you learned about the US from cartoons.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 04:49 PM
I'm a statement about a person, not even in upper management, most likely with a BS, to someone who has earned a Ph.D. Having difficulty following?

A Ph.D in a worthless field that produces virtually nothing of value versus someone with a B.S. in a hard science that forms the basis for all productivity in our economy. Mmmmmmm, tough choice.

kilgram
02-06-2016, 04:50 PM
It sounds like you learned about the US from cartoons.
Observing comments of these forums.

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Ethereal
02-06-2016, 04:50 PM
Go slap the person that taught you the definition of a non-profit. Either they, or you, $#@!ed up

Profit = Revenue - Costs.

An individual earning an income (revenue) in excess of the costs is earning a profit.

Try again, fella.

domer76
02-06-2016, 04:50 PM
:rofl:

Domer thinks a Ph.D in African American Studies or Gender and Women's Studies would make $100,000 in the private sector! Hilarious!

No, I'm sure there are a lot of corporations out there looking for people to bloviate about institutional racism and sexism all day... :rollseyes:

Osmium, there is no demand for that type of position in the private sector. That's the pitiful absurdity of your post. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Peter1469
02-06-2016, 04:53 PM
Observing comments of these forums.

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Perhaps same same, yes? :wink:

domer76
02-06-2016, 04:53 PM
Next what? Are you actually comparing corporate executives and engineers to someone with a Ph.D in African American Studies?

I'm comparing mediocre individuals who need spell check to formulate a proper sentence making more than someone who has undergone the rigors of a Ph.D

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 04:53 PM
You don't know what is a nonprofit association.

You can work (being paid) and continuing being nonprofit driving.

A nonprofit can have volunteers and paid workers depending of the needs. The difference is that the incomes must be used to pay the costs and not getting profit.

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It's disingenuous to call such operations "non-profit" when profit simply refers to financial gain. People who earn incomes in excess of the costs of working are obtaining a profit by definition. A professor who makes $120,000 a year teaching African American Studies at the University of Illinois is PROFITING and handsomely even though their institution is nominally public. But leftists are manipulators of language and they routinely make up their own definition of words in order to hide the truth of what they're doing. Fortunately, not everyone is stupid enough to fall for it.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 04:56 PM
Perhaps not, but the bulk of the educational departments are not without practical applications. However, people with those degrees that you mentione sometimes do find employment in HR or with government or in some other quasi-related field.

Right, they find employment in departments that are effectively mandated by law or they work with the government, which relies on taxpayer money to sustain it.

In a voluntary market economy, nobody would hire them because they produce virtually nothing of value. There is no demand for African American Studies in the private sector except for that demand which is artificially created through government mandates. Consumers don't derive value from someone bloviating about racism and Spike Lee movies.

Peter1469
02-06-2016, 04:58 PM
Right, they find employment in departments that are effectively mandated by law or they work with the government, which relies on taxpayer money to sustain it.

In a voluntary market economy, nobody would hire them because they produce virtually nothing of value. There is no demand for African American Studies in the private sector except for that demand which is artificially created through government mandates. Consumers don't derive value from someone bloviating about racism and Spike Lee movies.
2-3 pHDs in black studies could get hired at the African American museum in DC. The rest are out of luck.

kilgram
02-06-2016, 04:58 PM
It's disingenuous to call such operations "non-profit" when profit simply refers to financial gain. People who earn incomes in excess of the costs of working are obtaining a profit by definition. A professor who makes $120,000 a year teaching African American Studies at the University of Illinois is PROFITING and handsomely even though their institution is nominally public. But leftists are manipulators of language and they routinely make up their own definition of words in order to hide the truth of what they're doing. Fortunately, not everyone is stupid enough to fall for it.
Your ignorance is brutal.

So, all the NGO are profit driving because they have some paid workers?

The association if is not gaining profit is nonprofit and cannot be considered an enterprise. That is what you're not getting.

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Ethereal
02-06-2016, 04:59 PM
Osmium, there is no demand for that type of position in the private sector. That's the pitiful absurdity of your post. Stop embarrassing yourself.

There is no demand for it because it's useless fluff. Yet we're paying people over $100,000 to teach students about it. Makes tons of sense... if you're an idiot.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:00 PM
I'm comparing mediocre individuals who need spell check to formulate a proper sentence making more than someone who has undergone the rigors of a Ph.D

This inane blather has no point or relevance. Try again.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:02 PM
2-3 pHDs in black studies could get hired at the African American museum in DC. The rest are out of luck.

Right, there will be niches here and there, but they are generally worthless because they produce virtually nothing of value. The only reason they have a job is because the government is heavily subsidizing their existence. They are the corn ethanol of the academic world.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:04 PM
Your ignorance is brutal.

Coming from you, that's a compliment.


So, all the NGO are profit driving because they have some paid workers?

The association if is not gaining profit is nonprofit and cannot be considered an enterprise. That is what you're not getting.

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Profit has a definition. It means financial GAIN. So when someone obtains a financial gain from working, they are profiting BY DEFINITION.

I'm sorry if you barely understand English enough to use the proper definition of words, but that is your problem, not mine.

kilgram
02-06-2016, 05:05 PM
Coming from you, that's a compliment.



Profit has a definition. It means financial GAIN. So when someone obtains a financial gain from working, they are profiting BY DEFINITION.

I'm sorry if you barely understand English enough to use the proper definition of words, but that is your problem, not mine.
Are you saying NGOs are enterprises (profit driving)?

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Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:06 PM
Some leftists are so dumb. They will believe anything. Just call your operation "non-profit" and they will believe you, even if you're making over $100,000 a year to teach useless fluff.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:08 PM
Are you saying NGOs are enterprises (profit driving)?

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It's very simple. If an operation and its members are earning more money than they spend, they are profiting BY DEFINITION. The only way it's "non-profit" is if nobody is profiting. That means they are working for free or for minimum costs. Anything in excess of that is PROFIT, even they go around calling themselves "non-profit" in order to trick gullible people into thinking they don't have a profit motive. I know this because I know what the definition of profit is. Go look up the definition and maybe you will achieve a similar understanding.

Peter1469
02-06-2016, 05:08 PM
Right, there will be niches here and there, but they are generally worthless because they produce virtually nothing of value. The only reason they have a job is because the government is heavily subsidizing their existence. They are the corn ethanol of the academic world.

Corn ethanol could be productive if you striped the starch from the protein and gave the protein to the farm animals and the starch for gas.

domer76
02-06-2016, 05:13 PM
A Ph.D in a worthless field that produces virtually nothing of value versus someone with a B.S. in a hard science that forms the basis for all productivity in our economy. Mmmmmmm, tough choice.

I see. Your notion of value is $$$. Pretty fucking sad.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:14 PM
I see. Your notion of value is $$$. Pretty $#@!ing sad.

Yea, it's so sad to quantify economic value with money. Only crazy people do that!

:rollseyes:

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:15 PM
I see. Your notion of value is $$$. Pretty $#@!ing sad.

The next time you're at the gas station and the attendant asks you to pay for your gas, make sure you tell him how sad he is for assigning a monetary value to your transaction. I'm sure he will feel really bad about himself... :rofl:

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:17 PM
In Domer's world, economic value isn't assigned monetarily, it's assigned with pixies and unicorns... :rollseyes:

domer76
02-06-2016, 05:19 PM
There is no demand for it because it's useless fluff. Yet we're paying people over $100,000 to teach students about it. Makes tons of sense... if you're an idiot.

I took two semesters of theology in college. A course in oceanography. Two semesters of Russian literature and two years of Russian. The university required a full year of a lifetime sport. I took a Mediterranean culture class. I obtained my degree in chemistry. Who would teach those other courses? The Organic Chem prof?

Now, what you are saying is that all of those other courses were "fluff". Nonsense. They were part of a full education. A world view versus yours with blindfolds on.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:28 PM
I took two semesters of theology in college. A course in oceanography. Two semesters of Russian literature and two years of Russian. The university required a full year of a lifetime sport. I took a Mediterranean culture class. I obtained my degree in chemistry. Who would teach those other courses? The Organic Chem prof?

Now, what you are saying is that all of those other courses were "fluff". Nonsense. They were part of a full education. A world view versus yours with blindfolds on.

If you pay for something and it doesn't make you more employable, it's definitely fluff. Fluff can be interesting, fluff can be inspiring, fluff can be enjoyable, but it's still fluff, and it won't help you become a productive member of society. I love Shakespeare. I think he's the greatest writer in history. I've read at least a dozen of his plays many times over. But my love of Shakespeare isn't going to get me a job unless I want to take my chances at writing, which is a long-shot. You got a degree that is very useful, so I'm sure you were able to obtain gainful employment relatively easily. However, I doubt your employment hinged on your theology or Mediterranean culture courses.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:30 PM
It's perfectly fine if someone wants to learn about theology or Mediterranean culture or Russian literature. But it shouldn't be subsidized by the government. Is that so hard to understand?

Mac-7
02-06-2016, 05:30 PM
I took two semesters of theology in college. A course in oceanography. Two semesters of Russian literature and two years of Russian. The university required a full year of a lifetime sport. I took a Mediterranean culture class. I obtained my degree in chemistry. Who would teach those other courses? The Organic Chem prof?

Now, what you are saying is that all of those other courses were "fluff". Nonsense. They were part of a full education. A world view versus yours with blindfolds on.

You would have been better off just studing chemestry where they keep the liberal brainwashing to a minimum

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:38 PM
The traditional role of college has been totally changed and it's a disaster.

Originally, colleges only admitted demonstrated intellectuals and they had rigorous curricula that was designed to turn them into exceptional minds who would go on to lead society. Everyone else was directed into an apprenticeship where they learned a trade or a craft that could earn them a living. Future blacksmiths didn't waste their time and money trying to learn about the nuances of Greek mythology. They just learned how to become the best possible blacksmith. And if they were so inclined, they could use their leisure time and their disposable income to study Greek mythology on their own. And that's how it should be. College is not for the "average" person, despite what politicians and education mavens like to claim. And the proof is in the pudding. Millions of Americans leaving college with crushing debt and no prospects for gainful employment. But since when has proof mattered to statists? They will just tell us that their social engineering schemes are failing because they're not doing it enough. They need even more money and even more people going to college. That is what they will say.

kilgram
02-06-2016, 05:39 PM
It's very simple. If an operation and its members are earning more money than they spend, they are profiting BY DEFINITION. The only way it's "non-profit" is if nobody is profiting. That means they are working for free or for minimum costs. Anything in excess of that is PROFIT, even they go around calling themselves "non-profit" in order to trick gullible people into thinking they don't have a profit motive. I know this because I know what the definition of profit is. Go look up the definition and maybe you will achieve a similar understanding.
Wrong.

If you are interested in continue this conversation when I am back to home I look for references to explain it better than I would be able

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Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:41 PM
Wrong.

If you are interested in continue this conversation when I am back to home I look for references to explain it better than I would be able

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Yes, you are wrong, and based on your post history, you will never admit it.

kilgram
02-06-2016, 05:42 PM
Yes, you are wrong, and based on your post history, you will never admit it.
When I am wrong, I admit it.

But this time I am 100% certain I am right, without any shadow of doubt.

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domer76
02-06-2016, 05:46 PM
Profit = Revenue - Costs.

An individual earning an income (revenue) in excess of the costs is earning a profit.

Try again, fella.

Perhaps you should review the IRS codes re: non-profit organizations. You are woefully ignorant on the subject.

kilgram
02-06-2016, 05:49 PM
Yes, you are wrong, and based on your post history, you will never admit it.
NPO from Wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization



A nonprofit organization (NPO, also known as a non-business entity[1]) is an organization whose purposes are other than making a profit.[2] A nonprofit organization is often dedicated to furthering a particular social cause or advocating for a particular point of view. In economic terms, a nonprofit organization uses its surplus revenues to further achieve its purpose or mission, rather than distributing its surplus income to the organization's shareholders (or equivalents) as profit or dividends. This is known as the distribution constraint.[3] The decision to adopt a nonprofit legal structure is one that will often have taxation implications, particularly where the nonprofit seeks income tax exemption, charitable status and so on.



Yes, you are wrong, and based on your post history, you will never admit it.
NPO from Wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization



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domer76
02-06-2016, 05:49 PM
The next time you're at the gas station and the attendant asks you to pay for your gas, make sure you tell him how sad he is for assigning a monetary value to your transaction. I'm sure he will feel really bad about himself... :rofl:

lol

domer76
02-06-2016, 05:51 PM
In Domer's world, economic value isn't assigned monetarily, it's assigned with pixies and unicorns... :rollseyes:

Here's your pitiable, moronic mistake. That value in life always has to be monetary.

Now, go back and finish pumping that guy's gas. Be sure to check the oil.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:52 PM
Perhaps you should review the IRS codes re: non-profit organizations. You are woefully ignorant on the subject.

I don't speak bureaucrat, I speak English.

domer76
02-06-2016, 05:52 PM
If you pay for something and it doesn't make you more employable, it's definitely fluff. Fluff can be interesting, fluff can be inspiring, fluff can be enjoyable, but it's still fluff, and it won't help you become a productive member of society. I love Shakespeare. I think he's the greatest writer in history. I've read at least a dozen of his plays many times over. But my love of Shakespeare isn't going to get me a job unless I want to take my chances at writing, which is a long-shot. You got a degree that is very useful, so I'm sure you were able to obtain gainful employment relatively easily. However, I doubt your employment hinged on your theology or Mediterranean culture courses.

What ignorant bullshit

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:54 PM
Here's your pitiable, moronic mistake. That value in life always has to be monetary.

Now, go back and finish pumping that guy's gas. Be sure to check the oil.

I never said it always has to be monetary, but in an economic context, which is what I'm talking about, the only rational way to assign value is monetarily.

But most leftists are economic illiterates of the highest order, so they resent being suffocated with basic things like supply, demand, and prices.

domer76
02-06-2016, 05:54 PM
You would have been better off just studing chemestry where they keep the liberal brainwashing to a minimum

Hmmm. I thought theology was the domain of you RW "Christians". As far as the language courses, I can see from your posts that even a first language is a struggle for you.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:55 PM
What ignorant bull$#@!

That's the kind of mindless, idiotic response I expected from you. You really did waste your time with those general education courses. You didn't learn a thing.

domer76
02-06-2016, 05:55 PM
NPO from Wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization



A nonprofit organization (NPO, also known as a non-business entity[1]) is an organization whose purposes are other than making a profit.[2] A nonprofit organization is often dedicated to furthering a particular social cause or advocating for a particular point of view. In economic terms, a nonprofit organization uses its surplus revenues to further achieve its purpose or mission, rather than distributing its surplus income to the organization's shareholders (or equivalents) as profit or dividends. This is known as the distribution constraint.[3] The decision to adopt a nonprofit legal structure is one that will often have taxation implications, particularly where the nonprofit seeks income tax exemption, charitable status and so on.



NPO from Wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization



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Checkmate

Dr. Who
02-06-2016, 05:55 PM
The traditional role of college has been totally changed and it's a disaster.

Originally, colleges only admitted demonstrated intellectuals and they had rigorous curricula that was designed to turn them into exceptional minds who would go on to lead society. Everyone else was directed into an apprenticeship where they learned a trade or a craft that could earn them a living. Future blacksmiths didn't waste their time and money trying to learn about the nuances of Greek mythology. They just learned how to become the best possible blacksmith. And if they were so inclined, they could use their leisure time and their disposable income to study Greek mythology on their own. And that's how it should be. College is not for the "average" person, despite what politicians and education mavens like to claim. And the proof is in the pudding. Millions of Americans leaving college with crushing debt and no prospects for gainful employment. But since when has proof mattered to statists? They will just tell us that their social engineering schemes are failing because they're not doing it enough. They need even more money and even more people going to college. That is what they will say.
There are colleges of applied technology which do turn out people with useful skills.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:56 PM
Checkmate

Only if you're an idiot who doesn't know what the definition of profit is.

domer76
02-06-2016, 05:56 PM
I don't speak bureaucrat, I speak English.

You may speak it, but you struggle with its comprehension.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 05:58 PM
There are colleges of applied technology which do turn out people with useful skills.

Indeed, and that is more in line with the traditional systems of educating and employing people.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:01 PM
You may speak it, but you struggle with its comprehension.

No, the definition of profit is very simple.

Profit = Revenues - Costs.

So when someone working for an organization makes $100,000 a year, they are personally profiting by definition. Calling their work "non-profit" is just disingenuous bureaucratic jargon meant to obfuscate the truth.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:04 PM
If the IRS said black was white, I'm sure Domer would believe that, too.

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:04 PM
I never said it always has to be monetary, but in an economic context, which is what I'm talking about, the only rational way to assign value is monetarily.

But most leftists are economic illiterates of the highest order, so they resent being suffocated with basic things like supply, demand, and prices.

^Missing the point entirely.

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:05 PM
Only if you're an idiot who doesn't know what the definition of profit is.

Stop now. You are only digging a deeper hole for yourself

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:06 PM
That's the kind of mindless, idiotic response I expected from you. You really did waste your time with those general education courses. You didn't learn a thing.

Here's what escapes fools like you. That value and success always has to have a dollar value assigned to it. Sad, actually.

Could you check the wiper fluid level for me?

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:07 PM
Only if you're an idiot who doesn't know what the definition of profit is.

You lost, idiot. Give it up.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:07 PM
Stop now. You are only digging a deeper hole for yourself

I don't give a flying f*ck what you or any other moron leftist thinks.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:07 PM
Here's what escapes fools like you. That value and success always has to have a dollar value assigned to it. Sad, actually.

Could you check the wiper fluid level for me?

You are a dishonest f*cking moron. No wonder you're a Democrat.

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:08 PM
No, the definition of profit is very simple.

Profit = Revenues - Costs.

So when someone working for an organization makes $100,000 a year, they are personally profiting by definition. Calling their work "non-profit" is just disingenuous bureaucratic jargon meant to obfuscate the truth.

The organization is non-profit. Now you're being willfully ignorant.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:08 PM
You lost, idiot. Give it up.

That must mean I'm a genius who won, because everything you say is completely dishonest bullsh*t.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:09 PM
The organization is non-profit. Now you're being willfully ignorant.

Yes, the organization is "non-profit" even though its members are profiting. Makes sense... if you're a dishonest, leftist idiot.

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:09 PM
If the IRS said black was white, I'm sure Domer would believe that, too.

It's an easy law to understand. Did you skip one of those fluff classes such as English?

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:10 PM
It's an easy law to understand. Did you skip one of those fluff classes such as English?

Like I said, you are the kind of mindless leftist dumbass who will believe anything the government tells you.

kilgram
02-06-2016, 06:13 PM
Yes, the organization is "non-profit" even though its members are profiting. Makes sense... if you're a dishonest, leftist idiot.
It makes sense.

If I have full dedication to a job I must be paid to live. I am not getting profit from my activity.

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domer76
02-06-2016, 06:13 PM
I don't give a flying f*ck what you or any other moron leftist thinks.

Hilarious.

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:14 PM
You are a dishonest f*cking moron. No wonder you're a Democrat.

Hysterical

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:15 PM
The President of the University of Chicago makes over $2 million a year. But don't you dare call it a profit! He is only interested in humanity. The $2 million that goes into his pocket each year doesn't impact his incentives or his motives one iota!

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:16 PM
Yes, the organization is "non-profit" even though its members are profiting. Makes sense... if you're a dishonest, leftist idiot.

You got your ass handed to you on the definition of a non-profit. Try to let it go, "Trump". You just didn't win this time and the temper tantrums won't make you right.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:16 PM
It makes sense.

If I have full dedication to a job I must be paid to live. I am not getting profit from my activity.

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You are profiting if the revenue you earn exceeds the costs you pay. But you don't care about the actual definition of profit.

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:17 PM
Like I said, you are the kind of mindless leftist dumbass who will believe anything the government tells you.

When the IRS defines a non-profit, dolt, I don't think you get to make up your own definition.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:17 PM
You got your ass handed to you on the definition of a non-profit. Try to let it go, "Trump". You just didn't win this time and the temper tantrums won't make you right.

Again, I don't give a f*ck what you think. You are easily one of the most dishonest and moronic people on this forum. If you think I'm losing, then it's a sure sign I'm winning.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:18 PM
When the IRS defines a non-profit, dolt, I don't think you get to make up your own definition.

Right, even if their definition of "non-profit" is totally at odds with the English language definition of profit. Maybe for their next trick, they can define black to mean white. And I'm sure you will believe them.

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:18 PM
The President of the University of Chicago makes over $2 million a year. But don't you dare call it a profit! He is only interested in humanity. The $2 million that goes into his pocket each year doesn't impact his incentives or his motives one iota!

Funnier by the minute!

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:20 PM
Funnier by the minute!

I'm sure most dishonest idiots find the truth to be a laughing matter.

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:22 PM
Again, I don't give a f*ck what you think. You are easily one of the most dishonest and moronic people on this forum. If you think I'm losing, then it's a sure sign I'm winning.

I don't think you're losing. I know you've lost.

T, is that you? Going for post after ignorant post trying to convince us that the formal name is the "Democrat Party"? This even more pitiable.

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:23 PM
Right, even if their definition of "non-profit" is totally at odds with the English language definition of profit. Maybe for their next trick, they can define black to mean white. And I'm sure you will believe them.

Take me home now, Jesus! He's killin' me!

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:23 PM
I don't think you're losing. I know you've lost.

T, is that you? Going for post after ignorant post trying to convince us that the formal name is the "Democrat Party"? This even more pitiable.

And I know you're an irrelevant moron who hasn't said a single intelligent thing since you arrived at this forum.

kilgram
02-06-2016, 06:24 PM
You are profiting if the revenue you earn exceeds the costs you pay. But you don't care about the actual definition of profit.
Profit is for a business not for a worker.

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Dr. Who
02-06-2016, 06:24 PM
Indeed, and that is more in line with the traditional systems of educating and employing people.
I think in the future they will be more popular than the universities because they tailor their programs to whatever business is demanding. Unlike in the past where having a degree in virtually anything could land you some kind of job, because it proved that you could learn, the future will need a lot of people with specific skill sets.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:24 PM
Take me home now, Jesus! He's killin' me!

I'm sure Jesus has much better things to do than listen to a mental midget like you.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:24 PM
Profit is for a business not for a worker.

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:rofl:

kilgram
02-06-2016, 06:25 PM
:rofl:
Like it or not. It is the reality.

It is not profit driving.

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Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:26 PM
Professor of African American Studies at University of Illinois makes over $120,000, but don't you dare call it a profit. Their incentives are entirely pure and humanist.

:rofl:

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:27 PM
Like it or not. It is the reality.

It is not profit driving.

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Your grasp of the English language is tenuous at best, and your honesty in matters of politics is virtually nonexistent, so your opinions on such matters are less than worthless.

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:29 PM
Professor of African American Studies at University of Illinois makes over $120,000, but don't you dare call it a profit. Their incentives are entirely pure and humanist.

:rofl:

^Folks, this is an example of one crossing the threshold from willfull ignorance to pure stupidity.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:29 PM
They need that $120,000 a year in order to afford their Ramen noodles and their woodfire stove. They would starve otherwise!

:rofl:

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:30 PM
^Folks, this is an example of one crossing the threshold from willfull ignorance to pure stupidity.

Who do you think is even listening to your moronic pleas aside from other dishonest, stupid Democrats?

kilgram
02-06-2016, 06:31 PM
Your grasp of the English language is tenuous at best, and your honesty in matters of politics is virtually nonexistent, so your opinions on such matters are less than worthless.
My honesty?

My grasp of English is pretty good. And profit is the same concept in Japanese, Russian, English, Spanish, Arabic or whatever language.

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Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:33 PM
My honesty?

My grasp of English is pretty good. And profit is the same concept in Japanese, Russian, English, Spanish, Arabic or whatever language.

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Yes, you are very, very dishonest, which is why I try to avoid debating you in general.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:35 PM
In Kilgram and Domer's deluded, dishonest minds, a professor making $120,000 a year isn't profiting, even though their salary meets the exact definition of profit.

These are the kind of dishonest, deluded morons I have to deal with on a daily basis. Just sad.

Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:39 PM
Everyone knows that $120,000 a year is the bare minimum needed to survive. Those African American studies professors are barely scraping by. They do what they do because they have a deep passion for Spike Lee movies and Maya Angelou poems, not because they're earning more than 90% of Americans. How dare I question their motives!

kilgram
02-06-2016, 06:43 PM
Yes, you are very, very dishonest, which is why I try to avoid debating you in general.
Well think whatever you want.

I am sincere with my ideas and opinions.

If you don't want discuss with me, ignore me.

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Ethereal
02-06-2016, 06:45 PM
If you don't want discuss with me, ignore me.

Gladly.

domer76
02-06-2016, 06:46 PM
In Kilgram and Domer's deluded, dishonest minds, a professor making $120,000 a year isn't profiting, even though their salary meets the exact definition of profit.

These are the kind of dishonest, deluded morons I have to deal with on a daily basis. Just sad.

^When I was a child and watched "I Love Lucy", I recall being so embarrassed for her when she got into those unbelievable predicaments that I had to change the channel. It was just too painful for me to watch her stupidity.

Well, folks, that's where I am with Osmium here. Too painful to watch one of the 2/3 that the OP is referring to.

kilgram
02-06-2016, 06:47 PM
Gladly.
Perfect, then.

See you never.

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Peter1469
02-06-2016, 07:49 PM
Warning: Discuss the topic.

Mac-7
02-07-2016, 05:04 AM
Everyone knows that $120,000 a year is the bare minimum needed to survive. Those African American studies professors are barely scraping by. They do what they do because they have a deep passion for Spike Lee movies and Maya Angelou poems, not because they're earning more than 90% of Americans. How dare I question their motives!

Dont forget the thousands of hours a year they dont work at all.

Or the free vacations they get to attend conferences for their field of study.

and the occasionsl federal or private grant money to do studies.

Last but not least there the lifetime job security and the very generous retirement benefits provided by the state.

all in all even professors in dead end womens or minority grievance classes have it pretty easy.

and it sure beats having to get a real job.

domer76
02-07-2016, 10:02 AM
Dont forget the thousands of hours a year they dont work at all.

Or the free vacations they get to attend conferences for their field of study.

and the occasionsl federal or private grant money to do studies.

Last but not least there the lifetime job security and the very generous retirement benefits provided by the state.

all in all even professors in dead end womens or minority grievance classes have it pretty easy.

and it sure beats having to get a real job.

^This, folks, is called jealousy. And they say that "those that can't, teach." Sounds like Mac fell a little short of his dream job.

Matty
02-07-2016, 10:06 AM
Teachers should get merit based pay.

Peter1469
02-07-2016, 10:27 AM
Teachers should get merit based pay.

The teacher unions are against that. Why?

Standing Wolf
02-07-2016, 10:42 AM
Acting childish or inappropriately does NOT result from education, or the lack of it. It's a human characteristic. Try again.

It's plain that you and I are using "educated" in entirely different ways. I've known people who never spent a day in college who were better educated, in terms of understanding the world and other people and dealing with them intelligently, than most PhDs. The educated people who are hard to control are not necessary those with a formal degree; rather, it's the people who are both self-aware and aware of what's going on around them and why.

Cthulhu
02-07-2016, 10:53 AM
I think what probably skews those results are those horrible and utterly useless for profit private "colleges". The degrees people get from those places are useless. They also account for a massive portion of student debt.
Depends on the school.

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Cthulhu
02-07-2016, 10:56 AM
You act as if they all make CEO salaries. What would you pay for a Ph.D in your organization? $30,000 with no benefits? Sounds like it.
Depends on what they are worth and what they bring in.

If I'm an engineering firm, I'm not going to care if you got a degree or PhD in underwater basket weaving. The kid who took AutoCAD on highschool is going to make more.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Cthulhu
02-07-2016, 11:02 AM
Professors like to write their own text books and then create a new edition ever year or two. That is a "neat" revenue source for them.
The BYUI here wrote their own chemistry text book to help ease costs on students. Some of these books easily cost 100+ bucks. They dropped it to like 30-40. Basically the cost of printing and binding it.

Genius move in my book. Some professors their are doing away with new math books and just using old ones too. Because the eternal principals of math don't exactly change... But some opt for these subscriptions to a website where you do your homework which totally blows and is nothing but profit. They do have some spiffy analytical tools though.

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domer76
02-07-2016, 11:18 AM
Depends on what they are worth and what they bring in.

If I'm an engineering firm, I'm not going to care if you got a degree or PhD in underwater basket weaving. The kid who took AutoCAD on highschool is going to make more.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

You're making false equivalences. What does a teacher "bring in? They taught you reading and math for you to make what you do. Pay them a percentage of your take, then. They helped you get where you are.

domer76
02-07-2016, 11:19 AM
The teacher unions are against that. Why?

Possibly because nobody has figured out an adequate system to determine "merit".

Mac-7
02-07-2016, 11:28 AM
You're making false equivalences. What does a teacher "bring in? They taught you reading and math for you to make what you do. Pay them a percentage of your take, then. They helped you get where you are.

Are they entitled to a share of your welfare check too if you graduate without being able to read and write?

kilgram
02-07-2016, 12:34 PM
Depends on what they are worth and what they bring in.

If I'm an engineering firm, I'm not going to care if you got a degree or PhD in underwater basket weaving. The kid who took AutoCAD on highschool is going to make more.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.
Knowing to use AutoCAD without having knowledge of structures, mechanic physics, and many others is not enough for engineering jobs. So for engineering you need to know the other things, AutoCAd is just a tool, like a pencil or a pen.

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Mac-7
02-07-2016, 12:38 PM
^This, folks, is called jealousy. And they say that "those that can't, teach." Sounds like Mac fell a little short of his dream job.

They are public employees paid for with tax dollars.

voters like me have a right to question whether they are doing a good job or not.

And clearly from the poor academic achievement of so many students the teachers are not worth what they are getting.

AeonPax
02-07-2016, 02:37 PM
It's plain that you and I are using "educated" in entirely different ways. I've known people who never spent a day in college who were better educated, in terms of understanding the world and other people and dealing with them intelligently, than most PhDs. The educated people who are hard to control are not necessary those with a formal degree; rather, it's the people who are both self-aware and aware of what's going on around them and why.
`
No one ever said going to college makes one smarter per se, however, what it does for the student is to help develop and use critical thinking skills. Furthermore, I know people with liberal arts degrees, art history, philosophy and other non-essential degrees simply because they like the subject. However, in all cases, learning by questioning is the back bone of a college education. While the axiom of educated people being harder to control is not absolute, a thinking and questioning pubic is definitely not conducive to control of a population. That's why one of the first things dictators do is gather up and execute the intellectuals.

Cthulhu
02-07-2016, 02:57 PM
Knowing to use AutoCAD without having knowledge of structures, mechanic physics, and many others is not enough for engineering jobs. So for engineering you need to know the other things, AutoCAd is just a tool, like a pencil or a pen.

Enviat des del meu Aquaris E5 usant Tapatalk
I know. It was just a simple reference.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Cthulhu
02-07-2016, 03:00 PM
You're making false equivalences. What does a teacher "bring in? They taught you reading and math for you to make what you do. Pay them a percentage of your take, then. They helped you get where you are.
A teacher does a labor. They are paid via taxes most of the time.

Why on earth should be be paid twice?

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domer76
02-07-2016, 05:22 PM
Are they entitled to a share of your welfare check too if you graduate without being able to read and write?

Of course not. No more than the opposite. I was trying to point out the idiocy of the statement that you should pay someone based on how much they "bring in". Obviously, that went over your head.

domer76
02-07-2016, 05:24 PM
They are public employees paid for with tax dollars.

voters like me have a right to question whether they are doing a good job or not.

And clearly from the poor academic achievement of so many students the teachers are not worth what they are getting.

Usually, because the parents are dropping the ball on their end. The teach can teach your brag how to wipe its ass, but your brat has to do their end. And you need to follow up, too.

domer76
02-07-2016, 05:25 PM
A teacher does a labor. They are paid via taxes most of the time.

Why on earth should be be paid twice?

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

You didn't get it, either

Matty
02-07-2016, 05:30 PM
Usually, because the parents are dropping the ball on their end. The teach can teach your brag how to wipe its ass, but your brat has to do their end. And you need to follow up, too.


Looks as if you missed a few classes. Were you an orphan?

domer76
02-07-2016, 05:36 PM
Looks as if you missed a few classes. Were you an orphan?

Sorry, pal. Honor student. Chemistry major from one of the nation's top universities. What's your excuse?

Cthulhu
02-07-2016, 06:07 PM
You didn't get it, either
Well, rather than insinuate that I'm an imbecile; why don't you illuminate me where I allegedly err?

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

domer76
02-07-2016, 06:08 PM
Well, rather than insinuate that I'm an imbecile; why don't you illuminate me where I allegedly err?

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Pretty obvious. The getting paid twice assumption.