Trump the Racist

[Private Pickle]

So as many of you know I am not a fan of the Donald. With that being said, Trump has been accused by many of being a racist given his suggested policies but hasn't actually said anything racist... Or has he?

I would like to have the participants of this thread to post "racist" quotes from Trump and argue their case on why it is racist.

Begin.

[Mister D]

Common Sense

No one will touch They'll say something about white nationalists blah blah blah :laugh:

[Peter1469]

Trump is not a racists. He will be branded as one by the hard left and the media, sorry I repeat myself.

[Matty]

Trump is not a racists. He will be branded as one by the hard left and the media, sorry I repeat myself.


Just as they did Rick Perry. They play dirty that way!

[TrueBlue]

Trump is not a racists. He will be branded as one by the hard left and the media, sorry I repeat myself.


Just as they did Rick Perry. They play dirty that way!
Oh yeah, Perry, who just got off scot-free with an appellate court that is well stacked with Republican judges. Just like DeLay did. How does that grab you!

[Peter1469]

Oh yeah, Perry, who just got off scot-free with an appellate court that is well stacked with Republican judges. Just like DeLay did. How does that grab you!

The judges found the prosecutor's conduct to be questionable.

[Private Pickle]

Trump is not a racists. He will be branded as one by the hard left and the media, sorry I repeat myself.

Well that's why I gave them this thread... Telling how quiet it is...

[del]

The judges found the prosecutor's conduct to be questionable.

you'd think something like that would make the news, wouldn't you?

i can't find anyone who says the prosecutor behaved questionably or in a partisan manner.

quite the opposite, which surprised me, given that there have been questions at the aba level.

must be that hard left media repeat thingie, huh?

[Common Sense]

I've never said Trump was a racist. At least I don't remember saying it. No one can really know how one really feels.

I do know he's said things that are idiotic and more dangerously he's said things that racists love to hear. He has fostered a hostility that I think has the capacity to be dangerous.

But no, I don't think the man is a racist.

[Safety]

So as many of you know I am not a fan of the Donald. With that being said, Trump has been accused by many of being a racist given his suggested policies but hasn't actually said anything racist... Or has he?

I would like to have the participants of this thread to post "racist" quotes from Trump and argue their case on why it is racist.

Begin.

Question...are you speaking about racist, as what the definition in a dictionary is.....or racist, the word that is used in place of actual bigotry and prejudice?

[Private Pickle]

Question...are you speaking about racist, as what the definition in a dictionary is.....or racist, the word that is used in place of actual bigotry and prejudice?

Good question.

I'm willing to open it up to encapsulate bigotry and prejudice as it relates to race.

[del]

Good question.

I'm willing to open it up to encapsulate bigotry and prejudice as it relates to race.


mighty white of you

[Private Pickle]

mighty white of you

Well I am white. #whitepitymatterstowhitepeople

[del]

Well I am white.

link?

[Private Pickle]

link?

www.privatepickleswhitenessondisplay.com (http://www.privatepickleswhitenessondisplay.com)

[sachem]

Trump is not a racists. He will be branded as one by the hard left and the media, sorry I repeat myself.:D

[Dr. Who]

People who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder are incapable of having any real empathy for others, furthermore, feeling that they are a part of a superior race can play into the disorder. So, he could be a racist or he could just be indifferent to offending minority groups.

[Hal Jordan]

For the sake of argument, there is the case of the Central Park Five (four black youths and one of Hispanic descent). He condemned them as rapists and killers early on, and stuck with it after they were proven to be innocent (DNA evidence and confession of the actual killer).

14222

[Mac-7]

People who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder are incapable of having any real empathy for others, furthermore, feeling that they are a part of a superior race can play into the disorder. So, he could be a racist or he could just be indifferent to offending minority groups.

By the correct definition of racist meaning a belief in the genetic inferiority of black people I am not

I expect black people to perform up to standard and if they don't I hold only them to blame

But using the bleeding heart liberal definition that makes me a racist

So I can't win either way

[Peter1469]

you'd think something like that would make the news, wouldn't you?

i can't find anyone who says the prosecutor behaved questionably or in a partisan manner.

quite the opposite, which surprised me, given that there have been questions at the aba level.

must be that hard left media repeat thingie, huh?


It has made the news. Clearly you haven't been paying attention. Although a lot was in professional legal journals and their associated blogs.

[Peter1469]

By the correct definition of racist meaning a belief in the genetic inferiority of black people I am not

I expect black people to perform up to standard and if they don't I hold only them to blame

But using the bleeding heart liberal definition that makes me a racist

So I can't win either way

Racism is on the left. The soft bigotry of low expectations- they have such low expectations of blacks that they seek legal protections to help them out. To parent them. Heck, blacks are said by the left to be too stupid to figure out what a photo ID is.

[Dr. Who]

By the correct definition of racist meaning a belief in the genetic inferiority of black people I am not

I expect black people to perform up to standard and if they don't I hold only them to blame

But using the bleeding heart liberal definition that makes me a racist

So I can't win either way
The problem Mac is not in holding people to a standard, it is in essentially painting all people of any minority group with the same brush. I don't think that anyone will deny that there are sociological problems in certain demographically and economically challenged neighborhoods. Those historical urban neighborhoods were a perfect storm where the institutionalized racism of old met government experimental social psychology and socioeconomic ignorance, with the added nuance of organized crime choosing them as the prime franchisees for the drug and prostitution trade. The result was the destruction of the family, social mores and the historical role of the male in those sociological groups. Criticism is all fine and dandy, but it's going to take more than excoriating comments to change what has become a dysfunctional subculture. It will have to change from the inside out, but that is going to take more than the lackidaisical approach to education and social services that have charicterized these neighborhoods to date. There will have to be far more social and educational mentoring of children to replace the lack of same in their homes. There will have to be far more positive role models for boys in particular. It's not just about throwing money at problems, it's about having specific measurable goals.

[MisterVeritis]

The problem Mac is not in holding people to a standard, it is in essentially painting all people of any minority group with the same brush. I don't think that anyone will deny that there are sociological problems in certain demographically and economically challenged neighborhoods. Those historical urban neighborhoods were a perfect storm where the institutionalized racism of old met government experimental social psychology and socioeconomic ignorance, with the added nuance of organized crime choosing them as the prime franchisees for the drug and prostitution trade. The result was the destruction of the family, social mores and the historical role of the male in those sociological groups. Criticism is all fine and dandy, but it's going to take more than excoriating comments to change what has become a dysfunctional subculture. It will have to change from the inside out, but that is going to take more than the lackidaisical approach to education and social services that have charicterized these neighborhoods to date. There will have to be far more social and educational mentoring of children to replace the lack of same in their homes. There will have to be far more positive role models for boys in particular. It's not just about throwing money at problems, it's about having specific measurable goals.
So many words to say what can be said more simply. The liberals in government replaced an at-home father with a government welfare check. End every welfare program and this horrible problem will resolve itself in a generation.

[Mac-7]

So many words to say what can be said more simply. The liberals in government replaced an at-home father with a government welfare check. End every welfare program and this horrible problem will resolve itself in a generation.

I could not have said it better.

[Matty]

The problem Mac is not in holding people to a standard, it is in essentially painting all people of any minority group with the same brush. I don't think that anyone will deny that there are sociological problems in certain demographically and economically challenged neighborhoods. Those historical urban neighborhoods were a perfect storm where the institutionalized racism of old met government experimental social psychology and socioeconomic ignorance, with the added nuance of organized crime choosing them as the prime franchisees for the drug and prostitution trade. The result was the destruction of the family, social mores and the historical role of the male in those sociological groups. Criticism is all fine and dandy, but it's going to take more than excoriating comments to change what has become a dysfunctional subculture. It will have to change from the inside out, but that is going to take more than the lackidaisical approach to education and social services that have charicterized these neighborhoods to date. There will have to be far more social and educational mentoring of children to replace the lack of same in their homes. There will have to be far more positive role models for boys in particular. It's not just about throwing money at problems, it's about having specific measurable goals.



Hhhhmmmm. Liberals have no problem broad brushing the entire white race!

[Dr. Who]

So many words to say what can be said more simply. The liberals in government replaced an at-home father with a government welfare check. End every welfare program and this horrible problem will resolve itself in a generation.
While that may sound expedient, it really disregards the collateral damage. These are not statistics that we are talking about, they are people. If you just pull the rug out, you will not only have third world child starvation of the World Vision variety, and you will also have an unprecedented explosion of property crime and violence directed at all of those nice white urban and suburban communities. There will rioting, looting in rich neighborhoods, civil disturbances, arson and terrorism. Are you ready for that? Jobs are in short supply these days and people will not just choose to die of starvation.

[Dr. Who]

Hhhhmmmm. Liberals have no problem broad brushing the entire white race!
I didn't mention the white race.

[Matty]

I didn't mention the white race.


Don't play innocent with me. You've seen it done countless times here and not had an issue with it.

[Dr. Who]

Don't play innocent with me. You've seen it done countless times here and not had an issue with it.
I argue on my own behalf, not on behalf of others. I am talking about the system to date and it hasn't just been white people who have contributed to the demise of these neighborhoods. It has been a combination of a lot of short-sighted, ill-thought-out policies and dilettante committees and knee-jerk economics that have created the current mess. None of it has had any expressed goal.

[PolWatch]

I'm sure this would never be considered racist...perhaps it was manufactured just to make the Donald look bad:

'The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems. [Applause] Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/06/17/trumps-mexican-rapists-will-keep-the-republican-party-out-of-the-white-house/

[Mister D]

I'm sure this would never be considered racist...perhaps it was manufactured just to make the Donald look bad:

'The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems. [Applause] Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/06/17/trumps-mexican-rapists-will-keep-the-republican-party-out-of-the-white-house/

How is this racist? Mexico isn't sending it's best as per Donald. That's obviously true but that's beside the point. This would mean that Mexico has much more to offer which would mean...well you can figure it out from there.

[MisterVeritis]

While that may sound expedient, it really disregards the collateral damage. These are not statistics that we are talking about, they are people. If you just pull the rug out, you will not only have third world child starvation of the World Vision variety, and you will also have an unprecedented explosion of property crime and violence directed at all of those nice white urban and suburban communities. There will rioting, looting in rich neighborhoods, civil disturbances, arson and terrorism. Are you ready for that? Jobs are in short supply these days and people will not just choose to die of starvation.
Let's do it. The problem will end in just a few years. And no more feral animals will be produced.

[Dr. Who]

How is this racist? Mexico isn't sending it's best as per Donald. That's obviously true but that's beside the point. This would mean that Mexico has much more to offer which would mean...well you can figure it out from there.
Mexico isn't sending, people are choosing. Perhaps it's this:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

America may well be the victim of its own advertising. That piece of Emma Lazarus's poem, which is engraved on the Statue of Liberty, is known throughout the world. America has been advertising itself as the land of opportunity and the land of liberty for at least 150 years. It's the land of OZ, where the streets are paved with gold. The media and entertainment industry depict America as fabulously wealthy and most Americans living like millionaires. Mexico doesn't have to send anyone. America is advertising every day.

[Dr. Who]

Let's do it. The problem will end in just a few years. And no more feral animals will be produced.
I can't imagine that you would be that dispassionate if your children or grandchildren are sacrificed to the cause.

[Mister D]

Mexico isn't sending, people are choosing. Perhaps it's this:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

America may well be the victim of its own advertising. That piece of Emma Lazarus's poem, which is engraved on the Statue of Liberty, is known throughout the world. America has been advertising itself as the land of opportunity and the land of liberty for at least 150 years. It's the land of OZ, where the streets are paved with gold. The media and entertainment industry depict America as fabulously wealthy and most Americans living like millionaires. Mexico doesn't have to send anyone. America is advertising every day.

A Jew from Brooklyn wrote that. Moreover, you're incredibly naive if you think people come here for freedom and 'Murica. Then again, I know you'll resort to just about anything to support this cosmopolitan nightmare world you envision. And then criticize capitalism and the reign of money the next day but that's neither here nor there.

Anyway, your comments are irrelevant. Trump's comment wasn't racist in any meaningful way.

[Matty]

Mexico isn't sending, people are choosing. Perhaps it's this:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

America may well be the victim of its own advertising. That piece of Emma Lazarus's poem, which is engraved on the Statue of Liberty, is known throughout the world. America has been advertising itself as the land of opportunity and the land of liberty for at least 150 years. It's the land of OZ, where the streets are paved with gold. The media and entertainment industry depict America as fabulously wealthy and most Americans living like millionaires. Mexico doesn't have to send anyone. America is advertising every day.


Well, we need to stop advertising and build that wall, cut off Mexico's welfare check, and cut each and every benefit we give illegals. And, to pacify you we need to hang a sign around lady liberty's neck that says Respect our laws. Come legally.

[Mister D]

Well, we need to stop advertising and build that wall, cut off Mexico's welfare check, and cut each and every benefit we give illegals. And, to pacify you we need to hang a sign around lady liberty's neck that says Respect our laws. Come legally.

We never advertised anything.

[Dr. Who]

A Jew from Brooklyn wrote that. Moreover, you're incredibly naive if you think people come here for freedom and 'Murica. Then again, I know you'll resort to just about anything to support this cosmopolitan nightmare world you envision. And then criticize capitalism and the reign of money the next day but that's neither here nor there.

Anyway, your comments are irrelevant. Trump's comment wasn't racist in any meaningful way.
Oh bother. People would only take these risks either if they have a legitimate chance of making money or a legitimate chance of social welfare or both. By comparison to the corruption of Mexico, America is the land of OZ.

As to this nightmare world - we all have different dreams. In your dreams, you are surrounded by sameness, in my dreams I am surrounded by diversity. My dreams are your nightmares. I'm not one of those people who walks around in fear. I assess people rather well and avoid the nutters, but I don't assume that everyone who isn't of the same culture is by default, scary. That's your burden to live with. What you want is 200 years old. It ended with industrialization and the discovery of fossil fuels. Unless the entire planet collapses economically, diversity is the new reality.

[Dr. Who]

We never advertised anything.
Sorry D, but America has been advertising its largesse ever since movies became distributed throughout the world. Television amped that up with syndication. The American entertainment industry tends to pretend, for the most part, that Americans are all wealthy. Even their depictions of poorer Americans living in houses seems wealthy by comparison to people who are living in crowded apartments.

[Mister D]

Oh bother. People would only take these risks either if they have a legitimate chance of making money or a legitimate chance of social welfare or both. By comparison to the corruption of Mexico, America is the land of OZ.

As to this nightmare world - we all have different dreams. In your dreams, you are surrounded by sameness, in my dreams I am surrounded by diversity. My dreams are your nightmares. I'm not one of those people who walks around in fear. I assess people rather well and avoid the nutters, but I don't assume that everyone who isn't of the same culture is by default, scary. That's your burden to live with. What you want is 200 years old. It ended with industrialization and the discovery of fossil fuels. Unless the entire planet collapses economically, diversity is the new reality.

Risks? Who, people come here to make the living they can't at home. Nothing more. Nothing less. A living that's denied to them by the very system you champion. Oh bother...lol It's all about money.

I'm not surrounded by sameness in my dreams,Who, I'm not even sure what that means. What do I know is that you have a habit or projecting the values (as you perceive them of course) of a particular city on the rest of the world. You remain steadfastly ignorant of how the world really is. well to do white people problems...lol

[Mister D]

Sorry D, but America has been advertising its largesse ever since movies became distributed throughout the world. Television amped that up with syndication. The American entertainment industry tends to pretend, for the most part, that Americans are all wealthy. Even their depictions of poorer Americans living in houses seems wealthy by comparison to people who are living in crowded apartments.

No, a small segment of America has been advertising its largesse. The sentiments you describe have NEVER been a general American sentiment or a majority one.

[Mister D]

Oh, and I should point out the irony in that you are the one wedded to "sameness". You have a genuine and often expressed fear of difference. Who are you kidding? It's no surprise that you would champion a system and a set of values that would make everyone the same (i.e a mindless consumer). Yeah, that's you Dr. Who. Quite frankly, your plans for humanity are more sinister than that of any racist.

[Dr. Who]

No, a small segment of America has been advertising its largesse. The sentiments you describe have NEVER been a general American sentiment or a majority one.
The point is that it doesn't matter - that is the perception in the world. Americans generally prefer to see representations of people living well, so Hollywood obliges and then that is distributed around the world. Other countries have soap operas that represent the average, America has soap operas about the wealthy. Almost everything that America says about itself, even if it is fantastic, represents America as the land of unbelievable wealth even by comparison to other western countries. No small wonder that people will risk life and limb to get in. They have a false belief that America is a utopia.

[Dr. Who]

Oh, and I should point out the irony in that you are the one wedded to "sameness". You have a genuine and often expressed fear of difference. Who are you kidding? It's no surprise that you would champion a system and a set of values that would make everyone the same (i.e a mindless consumer). Yeah, that's you Dr. Who. Quite frankly, your plans for humanity are more sinister than that of any racist.
Mindless consumer? I am against conspicuous consumption D. I wear things out before I replace them. I'm not sure where you are getting this skewed perception. I am against built-in obsolescence and against multi-national dominance of the world. To what difference do I express a fear? The only one that I can think of is the xenophobes. I fully admit that I find xenophobes dangerous. People who are phobic are by definition, not rational.

[Matty]

I used to be whisky phobic but I am trying to overcome this, no drunk driving allowed.

[Peter1469]

I used to be whisky phobic but I am trying to overcome this, no drunk driving allowed.

You tell them Matty. Do you like Scotch whiskey?

[Hal Jordan]

I used to be whisky phobic but I am trying to overcome this, no drunk driving allowed.

Trust me. That fear is easy to overcome.


Sent using the power of the ring

[Mac-7]

While that may sound expedient, it really disregards the collateral damage. These are not statistics that we are talking about, they are people. If you just pull the rug out, you will not only have third world child starvation of the World Vision variety, and you will also have an unprecedented explosion of property crime and violence directed at all of those nice white urban and suburban communities. There will rioting, looting in rich neighborhoods, civil disturbances, arson and terrorism. Are you ready for that? Jobs are in short supply these days and people will not just choose to die of starvation.

I dont advocate throwing everyone off welfare tomorrow and I doubt if a majority of conservatives want that.

But we do want it severely curtailed and over time eleminated.

Which will benefit the people on welfare who have become too dependent on government instead of themselves.

Open border/amnesty advoctes often claim that illegal aliens do not get welfare.

That may not be entirely true but it does raise the question of how mexicans often with no education can walk or ride a thousand miles to a country where they dont speak the language yet find jobs when American citizens cant?

What do illegal aliens know that obama voters in the hood do not?

[Peter1469]

I dont advocate throwing everyone off welfare tomorrow and I doubt if a majority of conservatives want that.

But we do want it severely curtailed and over time eleminated.

Which will benefit the people on welfare who have become too dependent on government instead of themselves.

Open border/amnesty advoctes often claim that illegal aliens do not get welfare.

That may not be entirely true but it does raise the question of how mexicans often with no education can walk or ride a thousand miles to a country where they dont speak the language yet find jobs when American citizens cant?

What do illegal aliens know that obama voters in the hood do not?

Conservatives want to restrict welfare to those in actual need. Eliminate it?- I never heard a serious proposal to do that.

[Matty]

You tell them Matty. Do you like Scotch whiskey?


When I was young I drank black and white, first swallow was like gasoline, after that it was good. The worst hangover is from scotch.

[Peter1469]

When I was young I drank black and white, first swallow was like gasoline, after that it was good. The worst hangover is from scotch.

Try just sipping a bit and putting the bottle back. :smiley: It isn't a bottle of Thunderbird.

[Mac-7]

Conservatives want to restrict welfare to those in actual need. Eliminate it?- I never heard a serious proposal to do that.

Liberal democrats sem to think any registered democrat who votes for them "needs" welfare

So there is a lot of wiggle room over what the correct level of welfare is

A lot of welfare dollars intended for children wind up in the hands of adults who spend it on themselves instead of the kids

[MisterVeritis]

I can't imagine that you would be that dispassionate if your children or grandchildren are sacrificed to the cause.
And you don't care for a cure that would diminish democratic political power. I get it.

[MisterVeritis]

Oh bother. People would only take these risks either if they have a legitimate chance of making money or a legitimate chance of social welfare or both. By comparison to the corruption of Mexico, America is the land of OZ.

As to this nightmare world - we all have different dreams. In your dreams, you are surrounded by sameness, in my dreams I am surrounded by diversity. My dreams are your nightmares. I'm not one of those people who walks around in fear. I assess people rather well and avoid the nutters, but I don't assume that everyone who isn't of the same culture is by default, scary. That's your burden to live with. What you want is 200 years old. It ended with industrialization and the discovery of fossil fuels. Unless the entire planet collapses economically, diversity is the new reality.
have you considered moving to Mexico?

[Dr. Who]

I dont advocate throwing everyone off welfare tomorrow and I doubt if a majority of conservatives want that.

But we do want it severely curtailed and over time eleminated.

Which will benefit the people on welfare who have become too dependent on government instead of themselves.

Open border/amnesty advoctes often claim that illegal aliens do not get welfare.

That may not be entirely true but it does raise the question of how mexicans often with no education can walk or ride a thousand miles to a country where they dont speak the language yet find jobs when American citizens cant?

What do illegal aliens know that obama voters in the hood do not?
What you also do not realize is that the majority of those people receiving means-tested assistance actually work for a living. There are very few who receive 100% support and those who do tend to be SSI recipients. The fact is that many of those receiving SNAP, TANF and other supplementary benefits are earning minimum wage and can't properly feed or house themselves or their families on what they make. So it's not a matter of not working. Here's an interesting statistic, just to add some perspective to this debate:

Food stamp redemption at military grocers has been rising steadily since the beginning of the recession in 2008. Nearly $104 million worth of food stamps (http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/17/news/economy/food-stamps-cut/index.html?iid=EL) was redeemed at military commissaries (http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/13/news/economy/military-grocery-stores/index.html?iid=EL)in the fiscal year ended Sept. 30.


http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/17/news/economy/military-food-stamps/

[Dr. Who]

have you considered moving to Mexico?
I hear that there are some nice areas where many go to retire. I've thought about it.

[MisterVeritis]

What you also do not realize is that the majority of those people receiving means-tested assistance actually work for a living. There are very few who receive 100% support and those who do tend to be SSI recipients. The fact is that many of those receiving SNAP, TANF and other supplementary benefits are earning minimum wage and can't properly feed or house themselves or their families on what they make. So it's not a matter of not working. Here's an interesting statistic, just to add some perspective to this debate:

Food stamp redemption at military grocers has been rising steadily since the beginning of the recession in 2008. Nearly $104 million worth of food stamps (http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/17/news/economy/food-stamps-cut/index.html?iid=EL) was redeemed at military commissaries (http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/13/news/economy/military-grocery-stores/index.html?iid=EL)in the fiscal year ended Sept. 30.


http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/17/news/economy/military-food-stamps/
Most of the federal programs replace a father with a government check. End it and the feral animal problem goes away.

[MisterVeritis]

I hear that there are some nice areas where many go to retire. I've thought about it.
It would give you the diversity you seek without destroying the USA.

[Dr. Who]

It would give you the diversity you seek without destroying the USA.
Mexico is not actually diverse. It does however a have nice climate in some areas.

[Mac-7]

What you also do not realize is that the majority of those people receiving means-tested assistance actually work for a living. There are very few who receive 100% support and those who do tend to be SSI recipients. The fact is that many of those receiving SNAP, TANF and other supplementary benefits are earning minimum wage and can't properly feed or house themselves or their families on what they make. So it's not a matter of not working. Here's an interesting statistic, just to add some perspective to this

You are talking about women with fatherless children whose husband is named Uncle Sam

Their men eat and sleep in the hovel supplied by government but spend their days standing around on a street corner

And you failed to mention the working poors favorite government program EITC

Or as I refer to it as the unEarned Income Tax Credit because working moms can get back far more at tax time than they paid in

All of that is part of the welfare dependency mentailty that influences the poor

[MisterVeritis]

Mexico is not actually diverse. It does however a have nice climate in some areas.
Then find a country that represents the utopia you want the US to be. And go there. Leave us to our country.

[Dr. Who]

Then find a country that represents the utopia you want the US to be. And go there. Leave us to our country.
Diversity is just a factor of the migration of people on the planet and immigration policies in the west coupled with declining birth rates among people of European ancestry. If you really want to change that, then people are going to have to start having at least 3 children. However many people don't feel that they can afford to properly support and educate three children, so just in order to not have negative population development, either immigration is needed or some financial incentive provided to have that extra child.

[Matty]

Diversity is just a factor of the migration of people on the planet and immigration policies in the west coupled with declining birth rates among people of European ancestry. If you really want to change that, then people are going to have to start having at least 3 children. However many people don't feel that they can afford to properly support and educate three children, so just in order to not have negative population development, either immigration is needed or some financial incentive provided to have that extra child.


Of course they can't they have to pay heavy taxes to pay for anchor babies.

[Truth Detector]

Hhhhmmmm. Liberals have no problem broad brushing the entire white race!

.....or gun owners.

[Truth Detector]

I'm sure this would never be considered racist...perhaps it was manufactured just to make the Donald look bad:

'The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems. [Applause] Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.'

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/06/17/trumps-mexican-rapists-will-keep-the-republican-party-out-of-the-white-house/

Then why post it if it isn't racist? FAIL.

[MisterVeritis]

Diversity is just a factor of the migration of people on the planet and immigration policies in the west coupled with declining birth rates among people of European ancestry. If you really want to change that, then people are going to have to start having at least 3 children. However many people don't feel that they can afford to properly support and educate three children, so just in order to not have negative population development, either immigration is needed or some financial incentive provided to have that extra child.
Return the federal government to its Constitutional limits. That will reduce federal taxes by an order of magnitude. Problem significantly reduced.

Bringing in the dumbest, sickest, illiterates from socialist countries does not improve us.

[Truth Detector]

So after 66 posts; NO ONE can find a single racist quote to attribute to Trump. I'd like to thank the thread author for making this so obvious. Now we can move off this failed taking point and onto more productive debate.

[Mac-7]

So after 66 posts; NO ONE can find a single racist quote to attribute to Trump. I'd like to thank the thread author for making this so obvious. Now we can move off this failed taking point and onto more productive debate.

Bleeding heart liberals are so protective of illegal aliens that any objective criticism is labeled racist

[Peter1469]

Liberal democrats sem to think any registered democrat who votes for them "needs" welfare

So there is a lot of wiggle room over what the correct level of welfare is

A lot of welfare dollars intended for children wind up in the hands of adults who spend it on themselves instead of the kids

The correct number isn't $0. Correct?

[Peter1469]

Diversity is just a factor of the migration of people on the planet and immigration policies in the west coupled with declining birth rates among people of European ancestry. If you really want to change that, then people are going to have to start having at least 3 children. However many people don't feel that they can afford to properly support and educate three children, so just in order to not have negative population development, either immigration is needed or some financial incentive provided to have that extra child.

Immigration isn't bad. We should pick educated, skilled, and needed people.

[Peter1469]

Return the federal government to its Constitutional limits. That will reduce federal taxes by an order of magnitude. Problem significantly reduced.

Bringing in the dumbest, sickest, illiterates from socialist countries does not improve us.

How much savings- most of the costs could legally be shifted to the States.

[Mister D]

It would give you the diversity you seek without destroying the USA.

Dr. Who fears diversity or at least any sort of diversity that signifies genuine difference. The superficial diversity of skin color is a sham people like Dr. Who have bought into. What these champions of "diversity" actually favor is the gradual annihilation of cultures and peoples. They desire a world where people may look different but are identical in every way that matters (i.e. same values, way of life etc.).

[Peter1469]

So after 66 posts; NO ONE can find a single racist quote to attribute to Trump. I'd like to thank the thread author for making this so obvious. Now we can move off this failed taking point and onto more productive debate.

Why? Did you except they could?

It is a meme.

It is also a fallacy called poisoning the well. Trump is a racist. If you support Trump you must be one too. That can effectively shut the debate down because many people don't want to be called racist.

[Truth Detector]

Why? Did you except they could?

It is a meme.

It is also a fallacy called poisoning the well. Trump is a racist. If you support Trump you must be one too. That can effectively shut the debate down because many people don't want to be called racist.

Agreed; and perfectly illustrated by this thread. ;)

[Mac-7]

The correct number isn't $0. Correct?

No it isn't $0

[IMPress Polly]

Private Pickle wrote:
So as many of you know I am not a fan of the Donald. With that being said, Trump has been accused by many of being a racist given his suggested policies but hasn't actually said anything racist... Or has he?

I would like to have the participants of this thread to post "racist" quotes from Trump and argue their case on why it is racist.

Begin.


Mister D wrote:
No one will touch They'll say something about white nationalists blah blah blah :laugh:
@Private Pickle (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=615)
@Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4)

Ask and you shall receive! As a user of the Trumpweb, I get the privilege of seeing Trump quotes every time his name is printed online and have thus amassed quite a collection of interesting ones. Here are just a few quotes from Mr. Donald Trump that strongly indicate racist sentiments:

"Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. ... Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only guys I want counting my money are little short guys that wear yarmulkes all day."

"Our great African-American President hasn’t exactly had a positive impact on the thugs who are so happily and openly destroying Baltimore."

Asked to estimate his wealth: "Who the fuck knows? I mean, really, who knows how much the Japs will pay for Manhattan property these days?"

“The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."

Here's another example from just a couple months ago: "I think we’re going to do, we’re doing really well with evangelicals. And by the way, and again, I do like Ted Cruz, but not a lot of evangelicals come out of Cuba, in all fairness. It’s true. Not a lot come out. But I like him nevertheless. But I think we’re going to do great, we are doing great with evangelicals." Translation for conservatives who can't pick up on how that's racist: Ted Cruz is a good Christian on the outside, but you can't really trust him because he's of Cuban ethnicity.

And then there's this one that's become perhaps the most famous of them all; the one that launched his presidential campaign: "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending the best. They're not sending you, they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." For the record, the stats show that Mexican immigrants actually tend to commit fewer crimes, including fewer violent crimes, than native-born American citizens.

Or need I remind anyone of this one from a few years back that he "doesn't like talking about" anymore for some odd reason: "A certificate of live birth is not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination as a birth certificate." You know what this was referring to.

Or how about this recent item he retweeted: "@ResisTyr (https://twitter.com/ResisTyr): Mr.Trump...BOTH Cruz AND Rubio are ineligible to be POTUS! It's a SLAM DUNK CASE!! Check it! http://powderedwigsociety.com/eligibility-of-cruz-and-rubio/ … (https://t.co/NjqWP0pP6X)"
8:07 AM - 20 Feb 2016 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/701045567783219201)


(This now marks the third birther conspiracy theory he's embraced. It's also very convenient. As with all other fascists, there is no such thing as legitimate competition in Trump's mind. There are only police paradigms. As it turns out, none of his opponents on either side of the aisle are legitimate candidates, particularly if they're not 'properly' (as in of European ancestry) white guys.)

[Mister D]

@Private Pickle (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=615)
@Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4)

Ask and you shall receive! As a user of the Trumpweb, I get the privilege of seeing Trump quotes every time his name is printed online and have thus amassed quite a collection of interesting ones. Here are just a few quotes from Mr. Donald Trump that strongly indicate racist sentiments:

"Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. ... Black guys counting my money! I hate it. ... The only guys I want counting my money are little short guys that wear yarmulkes all day."

"Our great African-American President hasn’t exactly had a positive impact on the thugs who are so happily and openly destroying Baltimore."

Asked to estimate his wealth: "Who the $#@! knows? I mean, really, who knows how much the Japs will pay for Manhattan property these days?"

“The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."

Here's another example from just a couple months ago: "I think we’re going to do, we’re doing really well with evangelicals. And by the way, and again, I do like Ted Cruz, but not a lot of evangelicals come out of Cuba, in all fairness. It’s true. Not a lot come out. But I like him nevertheless. But I think we’re going to do great, we are doing great with evangelicals." Translation for conservatives who can't pick up on how that's racist: Ted Cruz is a good Christian on the outside, but you can't really trust him because he's of Cuban ethnicity.

And then there's this one that's become perhaps the most famous of them all; the one that launched his presidential campaign: "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending the best. They're not sending you, they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." For the record, the stats show that Mexican immigrants actually tend to commit fewer crimes, including fewer violent crimes, than native-born American citizens.

Or need I remind anyone of this one from a few years back that he "doesn't like talking about" anymore for some odd reason: "A certificate of live birth is not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination as a birth certificate." You know what this was referring to.

Or how about this recent item he retweeted: "@ResisTyr (https://twitter.com/ResisTyr): Mr.Trump...BOTH Cruz AND Rubio are ineligible to be POTUS! It's a SLAM DUNK CASE!! Check it! http://powderedwigsociety.com/eligibility-of-cruz-and-rubio/ … (https://t.co/NjqWP0pP6X)"
8:07 AM - 20 Feb 2016 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/701045567783219201)


(This now marks the third birther conspiracy theory he's embraced. It's also very convenient. As with all other fascists, there is no such thing as legitimate competition in Trump's mind. There are only police paradigms. As it turns out, none of his opponents on either side of the aisle are legitimate candidates, particularly if they're not 'properly' (as in of European ancestry) white guys.)

@IMPress Polly (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=399), I appreciate all of your hard work but since only the first quote is arguably "racist" you could have ended it there. Now did he actually say that? When? Where? What was the context?

[Tahuyaman]

Oh yeah, Perry, who just got off scot-free with an appellate court that is well stacked with Republican judges

He got off "Scot-free" for not committing a crime.

[Tahuyaman]

The word racist is tossed around so much now it has lost its meaning.

[IMPress Polly]

Mister D wrote:
@IMPress Polly (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=399), I appreciate all of your hard work but since only the first quote is arguably "racist" you could have ended it there. Now did he actually say that? When? Where? What was the context?

First of all, you're wrong. They're all objectively racist statements. The only reason you're convinced otherwise is because, as a fascist yourself, you embrace a far more narrow definition of the term "racist" than qualifies.

But as for the context of the particular quote you're highlighting, that was a second-hand quote from an employee of Trump's as recorded in a 1991 book he wrote, but in a 1999 interview with Playboy magazine, Trump described the quotes and allegations leveled against him in the said book as "probably true", i.e. didn't dispute the quotation (unlike some of his defenders). Here was Trump's assessment of their validity in detail:

"Nobody has had worse things written about them than me," Trump says. "And here I am. The stuff O'Donnell wrote about me is probably true. The guy's a fucking loser. A fucking loser. I brought the guy in to work for me; it turns out he didn't know that much about what he was doing. I think I met the guy two or three times total. And this guy goes off and writes a book about me, like he knows me!"

And there are more. I've just offered a small sampling here.

[MisterVeritis]

How much savings- most of the costs could legally be shifted to the States.
We can disagree here.

[Dr. Who]

Immigration isn't bad. We should pick educated, skilled, and needed people.I agree.

[Mister D]

First of all, you're wrong. They're all objectively racist statements. The only reason you're convinced otherwise is because, as a fascist yourself, you embrace a far more narrow definition of the term "racist" than qualifies.

But as for the context of the particular quote you're highlighting, that was a second-hand quote from an employee of Trump's as recorded in a 1991 book he wrote, but in a 1999 interview with Playboy magazine, Trump described the quotes and allegations leveled against him in the said book as "probably true", i.e. didn't dispute the quotation (unlike some of his defenders). Here was Trump's assessment of their validity in detail:

"Nobody has had worse things written about them than me," Trump says. "And here I am. The stuff O'Donnell wrote about me is probably true. The guy's a $#@!ing loser. A $#@!ing loser. I brought the guy in to work for me; it turns out he didn't know that much about what he was doing. I think I met the guy two or three times total. And this guy goes off and writes a book about me, like he knows me!"

And there are more. I've just offered a small sampling here.

Polly, you use "racist" far too loosely for it to have any sting. Again, only the first comment can pass as "racist" in any meaningful sense. For example, let's take "Black people commit a lot of violent crime". You would consider that a racist comment. Sorry, I can't take that seriously.

So the only racist quite you can provide was obtained second hand from a former employee and you justify accepting this as truthful because of something Trump said in a Playboy interview years later? Are you for real? I sure hope there's more. A lot more. You're only demonstrating the dishonesty and irrationality claimed in the OP.

[Dr. Who]

Dr. Who fears diversity or at least any sort of diversity that signifies genuine difference. The superficial diversity of skin color is a sham people like Dr. Who have bought into. What these champions of "diversity" actually favor is the gradual annihilation of cultures and peoples. They desire a world where people may look different but are identical in every way that matters (i.e. same values, way of life etc.).
The only "genuine" difference that I object to is criminality. Since crime is not generally an aspect of culture, I'm not sure on what basis you are making such statements. I have said that often the American culture is adopted by the children of immigrants. That is just a statement of fact. Furthermore, the traditional cultures in the world are being changed by the availability of western entertainment and ideas over the internet. These are not qualitative statements, but just statements of fact.

[Peter1469]

We can disagree here.

I depart from libertarians over the legal authority of state governments.

I would still vote for less government, but the question is what can a State legislate.

[Mister D]

The only "genuine" difference that I object to is criminality. Since crime is not generally an aspect of culture, I'm not sure on what basis you are making such statements. I have said that often the American culture is adopted by the children of immigrants. That is just a statement of fact. Furthermore, the traditional cultures in the world are being changed by the availability of western entertainment and ideas over the internet. These are not qualitative statements, but just statements of fact.

Who, you have stated several times before that, for example, you don't like organized religion because it "divides" people. You simply do not like genuine human difference. You want everyone to think the same way, share the same values, desire the same things and by the same products. For you, that will lead to a more peaceful and sound world. That's why you champion the homogenization that globalism entails. For others, that's a rather horrifying prospect and a painfully dull world. I stand with human communities all over the world against this process. You appear to stand firmly with your economic superiors. It is what it is.

[MisterVeritis]

I depart from libertarians over the legal authority of state governments.

I would still vote for less government, but the question is what can a State legislate.
Well, that is different from what I disagreed with. I took your statement to mean the federal government could simply shift their programs to the states.

The states have wide latitude to pick up services or not.

[Peter1469]

Well, that is different from what I disagreed with. I took your statement to mean the federal government could simply shift their programs to the states.

The states have wide latitude to pick up services or not.

I meant the last statement. I would say complete latitude.

[Dr. Who]

Who, you have stated several times before that, for example, you don't like organized religion because it "divides" people. You simply do not like genuine human difference. You want everyone to think the same way, share the same values, desire the same things and by the same products. For you, that will lead to a more peaceful and sound world. That's why you champion the homogenization that globalism entails. For others, that's a rather horrifying prospect and a painfully dull world. I stand with human communities all over the world against this process. You appear to stand firmly with your economic superiors. It is what it is.
I don't like organized religion for myself. Yes, I do find religion as a divisive force in society, but that is generally a factor of fundamentalist beliefs that impute evil to those who are not of the same faith. Globalism is what it is. I don't endorse it. It is driven by the multi-nationals that control the western world. I don't support the multi-nationals. In fact, I wish that nations would take their control back.

[Private Pickle]

Well let me start by saying thank you for your attempt here. Let's go through it:


@Private Pickle (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=615)
@Mister D (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=4)

Ask and you shall receive! As a user of the Trumpweb, I get the privilege of seeing Trump quotes every time his name is printed online and have thus amassed quite a collection of interesting ones. Here are just a few quotes from Mr. Donald Trump that strongly indicate racist sentiments:

"Laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. ... Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only guys I want counting my money are little short guys that wear yarmulkes all day."

This is a false quote perpetrated by a former employee of Trump's and then the media. Sorry.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fusion-misattributes-racist-quote-to-donald-trump/article/2567872


"Our great African-American President hasn’t exactly had a positive impact on the thugs who are so happily and openly destroying Baltimore."


This statement isn't racist. It's fact. While the term "thug" has been deemed inappropriate by the PC police it doesn't mean it is...



Asked to estimate his wealth: "Who the fuck knows? I mean, really, who knows how much the Japs will pay for Manhattan property these days?"

The term "Jap" references the Japanese people. While many consider it derogatory (many don't) it wouldn't be considered racist. Especially in business. I have been around the international business world awhile now and terms like these are common as they abbreviate the nationalities.


“The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."

While stupid...not racist.


Here's another example from just a couple months ago: "I think we’re going to do, we’re doing really well with evangelicals. And by the way, and again, I do like Ted Cruz, but not a lot of evangelicals come out of Cuba, in all fairness. It’s true. Not a lot come out. But I like him nevertheless. But I think we’re going to do great, we are doing great with evangelicals." Translation for conservatives who can't pick up on how that's racist: Ted Cruz is a good Christian on the outside, but you can't really trust him because he's of Cuban ethnicity.

Stretch. Big time stretch. You are interpreting what he said but the literal meaning of what he said wasn't racist.


And then there's this one that's become perhaps the most famous of them all; the one that launched his presidential campaign: "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending the best. They're not sending you, they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." For the record, the stats show that Mexican immigrants actually tend to commit fewer crimes, including fewer violent crimes, than native-born American citizens.

Again...while stupid not racist. He is not saying they are doing those things BECAUSE they are Mexicans. You are making that stretch and it's disingenuous.


Or need I remind anyone of this one from a few years back that he "doesn't like talking about" anymore for some odd reason: "A certificate of live birth is not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination as a birth certificate." You know what this was referring to.


Not racist.


Or how about this recent item he retweeted: "@ResisTyr (https://twitter.com/ResisTyr): Mr.Trump...BOTH Cruz AND Rubio are ineligible to be POTUS! It's a SLAM DUNK CASE!! Check it! http://powderedwigsociety.com/eligibility-of-cruz-and-rubio/ … (https://t.co/NjqWP0pP6X)"
8:07 AM - 20 Feb 2016 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/701045567783219201)


(This now marks the third birther conspiracy theory he's embraced. It's also very convenient. As with all other fascists, there is no such thing as legitimate competition in Trump's mind. There are only police paradigms. As it turns out, none of his opponents on either side of the aisle are legitimate candidates, particularly if they're not 'properly' (as in of European ancestry) white guys.)

You're making the stretch again...

[IMPress Polly]

Private Pickle wrote:
This is a false quote perpetrated by a former employee of Trump's and then the media. Sorry.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fu...rticle/2567872 (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fusion-misattributes-racist-quote-to-donald-trump/article/2567872)


On the contrary, in a 1999 Playboy interview, Trump did not dispute the accuracy of the quotes, but instead said that they were "probably true":

"Nobody has had worse things written about them than me," Trump says. "And here I am. The stuff O'Donnell wrote about me is probably true. The guy's a $#@!ing loser. A $#@!ing loser. I brought the guy in to work for me; it turns out he didn't know that much about what he was doing. I think I met the guy two or three times total. And this guy goes off and writes a book about me, like he knows me!"


The term "Jap" references the Japanese people.

No, really? :tongue:


While many consider it derogatory (many don't) it wouldn't be considered racist. Especially in business. I have been around the international business world awhile now and terms like these are common as they abbreviate the nationalities.

Are they commonly used by Japanese people to describe each other?


Not racist.

Okay when we reach the point of concluding that birtherism is "not racist", I give up on trying to reason with you. You obviously embrace a far more narrow definition of racism than people on the receiving end would.

[Peter1469]

That last part is very true. Some people take a expansive view of the term. Others narrow. Most in between.

[Private Pickle]

On the contrary, in a 1999 Playboy interview, Trump did not dispute the accuracy of the quotes, but instead said that they were "probably true":

"Nobody has had worse things written about them than me," Trump says. "And here I am. The stuff O'Donnell wrote about me is probably true. The guy's a $#@!ing loser. A $#@!ing loser. I brought the guy in to work for me; it turns out he didn't know that much about what he was doing. I think I met the guy two or three times total. And this guy goes off and writes a book about me, like he knows me!"



No, really? :tongue:



Are they commonly used by Japanese people to describe each other?



Okay when we reach the point of concluding that birtherism is "not racist", I give up on trying to reason with you. You obviously embrace a far more narrow definition of racism than people on the receiving end would.

Birthirsm has more to do with the requirement for the POTUS to be natural citizen correct?

[Mister D]

Well let me start by saying thank you for your attempt here. Let's go through it:



This is a false quote perpetrated by a former employee of Trump's and then the media. Sorry.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/fusion-misattributes-racist-quote-to-donald-trump/article/2567872



This statement isn't racist. It's fact. While the term "thug" has been deemed inappropriate by the PC police it doesn't mean it is...



The term "Jap" references the Japanese people. While many consider it derogatory (many don't) it wouldn't be considered racist. Especially in business. I have been around the international business world awhile now and terms like these are common as they abbreviate the nationalities.



While stupid...not racist.



Stretch. Big time stretch. You are interpreting what he said but the literal meaning of what he said wasn't racist.



Again...while stupid not racist. He is not saying they are doing those things BECAUSE they are Mexicans. You are making that stretch and it's disingenuous.



Not racist.



You're making the stretch again...

Right. Only the first quote could reasonably be considered racist and it's of dubious origin.

[Mister D]

On the contrary, in a 1999 Playboy interview, Trump did not dispute the accuracy of the quotes, but instead said that they were "probably true":

"Nobody has had worse things written about them than me," Trump says. "And here I am. The stuff O'Donnell wrote about me is probably true. The guy's a $#@!ing loser. A $#@!ing loser. I brought the guy in to work for me; it turns out he didn't know that much about what he was doing. I think I met the guy two or three times total. And this guy goes off and writes a book about me, like he knows me!"



No, really? :tongue:



Are they commonly used by Japanese people to describe each other?



Okay when we reach the point of concluding that birtherism is "not racist", I give up on trying to reason with you. You obviously embrace a far more narrow definition of racism than people on the receiving end would.

You provided one quote, Polly. If he wrote a book this former employee probably had a lot to say. I disagree with Pickle though. You didn't stretch the truth. You tortured it on the rack and left it for dead.

[Mister D]

I don't like organized religion for myself. Yes, I do find religion as a divisive force in society, but that is generally a factor of fundamentalist beliefs that impute evil to those who are not of the same faith. Globalism is what it is. I don't endorse it. It is driven by the multi-nationals that control the western world. I don't support the multi-nationals. In fact, I wish that nations would take their control back.

Yes, you do find religion to be a divisive force. You want everyone to rally around the same system of values and have the same perspectives but this is achievable only at the price of beauty and everything that makes the world an interesting place. You have expressed support for the paradigm of "economic man" and favor a process that reduces human beings to consumers in a world market. You do that every time you regurgitate the propaganda about the "inevitability" of these developments and their consequences. Yes, globalism is what it is. It's a dehumanizing and destructive process that encourages only a superficial diversity at best. Genuine human differences seem to bother you and I think when forced to choose you prefer to chase the chimera of global unity.

If you truly want peoples to have their control back then you can start by not telling us we must submit to the "inevitable."

[Dr. Who]

Yes, you do find religion to be a divisive force. You want everyone to rally around the same system of values and have the same perspectives but this is achievable only at the price of beauty and everything that makes the world an interesting place. You have expressed support for the paradigm of "economic man" and favor a process that reduces human beings to consumers in a world market. You do that every time you regurgitate the propaganda about the "inevitability" of these developments and their consequences. Yes, globalism is what it is. It's a dehumanizing and destructive process that encourages only a superficial diversity at best. Genuine human differences seem to bother you and I think when forced to choose you prefer to chase the chimera of global unity.

If you truly want peoples to have their control back then you can start by not telling us we must submit to the "inevitable."I often suggest that people should not support the establishment parties that are just stooges for the multi-national corporations who manipulate the world to their own ends. That said, even if multi-national control ended tomorrow, technology will not and that technology is making the world a very small place. You cannot turn the clock back to create the isolation that is required for cultures to remain inviolate, not that they ever really were. Cultures have always influenced each other, it's just that the interactions of people and ideas are no longer dependent on months-long trading missions, so there is a greater inevitability of cultural cross contamination in this technological age. Mankind changes, things change and cultures change. The Scandinavian people are not the Vikings of old and Italy is not the Roman Empire. Pharaohs no longer rule in Egypt and there is no Spartan society in Greece. History is littered with dead cultures and dead languages. That isn't going stop just because some don't like it.

[Mister D]

I often suggest that people should not support the establishment parties that are just stooges for the multi-national corporations who manipulate the world to their own ends. That said, even if multi-national control ended tomorrow, technology will not and that technology is making the world a very small place. You cannot turn the clock back to create the isolation that is required for cultures to remain inviolate, not that they ever really were. Cultures have always influenced each other, it's just that the interactions of people and ideas are no longer dependent on months-long trading missions, so there is a greater inevitability of cultural cross contamination in this technological age. Mankind changes, things change and cultures change. The Scandinavian people are not the Vikings of old and Italy is not the Roman Empire. Pharaohs no longer rule in Egypt and there is no Spartan society in Greece. History is littered with dead cultures and dead languages. That isn't going stop just because some don't like it.

Who, I'm not sure if you're deliberately employing straw men or if you really don't understand what's at issue here. Cultures have always influenced each other? Cultures change? Who suggested otherwise? We're not talking about cultures influencing each other. We're talking about cultures, including our own, being snuffed out in the name of an economic model and an ideology that reduces human beings to their animal appetites and their desire for material objects. We're talking about a vision of humanity that is predicated on what is least human about us. Moreover, most people recognize, even if it's only on an visceral level, that there is something wrong with this.

Who, your sentiments are at turns ambivalent and contradictory. I think your heart is in the right place and that is why I find you so frustrating at times.

[Dr. Who]

Who, I'm not sure if you're deliberately employing straw men or if you really don't understand what's at issue here. Cultures have always influenced each other? Cultures change? Who suggested otherwise? We're not talking about cultures influencing each other. We're talking about cultures, including our own, being snuffed out in the name of an economic model and an ideology that reduces human beings to their animal appetites and their desire for material objects. We're talking about a vision of humanity that is predicated on what is least human about us. Moreover, most people recognize, even if it's only on an visceral level, that there is something wrong with this.

Who, your sentiments are at turns ambivalent and contradictory. I think your heart is in the right place and that is why I find you so frustrating at times.
The center of your argument is really about mass consumerism infecting the world, but you keep distracting from that by pointing at other things. The multi-nationals drive mass consumerism and have been doing so for more than 50 years. I totally agree that it is a plague upon the planet in more ways than one. I never defend it. It does drive some of the other issues that you talk about, but they are symptoms, not the disease. It is a worthy topic unto itself and really the one with the greatest impact on the world.

[Mister D]

The center of your argument is really about mass consumerism infecting the world, but you keep distracting from that by pointing at other things. The multi-nationals drive mass consumerism and have been doing so for more than 50 years. I totally agree that it is a plague upon the planet in more ways than one. I never defend it. It does drive some of the other issues that you talk about, but they are symptoms, not the disease. It is a worthy topic unto itself and really the one with the greatest impact on the world.

I do think you are partial to some of its effects.

My complete abandonment of the American right was prompted by my realization of what the true source of my complaints is. For example, I've said before that the immigrant communities are not the problem. The problem is the system that brings them to our shores. Moreover, I've realized that the most legitimate and effective way of protecting a people's identity is to protect everyone's.

[Dr. Who]

I do think you are partial to some of its effects.

My complete abandonment of the American right was prompted by my realization of what the true source of my complaints is. For example, I've said before that the immigrant communities are not the problem. The problem is the system that brings them to our shores. Moreover, I've realized that the most legitimate and effective way of protecting a people's identity is to protect everyone's.
Then you have to look at who defined capitalism and what it really means in the world. Capitalism is not Joe the grocery store owner and Hank the barber making a living in business for themselves. Capitalism is giant corporate interests manipulating the governments of the world to act on their behalf and paying to brainwash people to buy things that they don't need. Anyway, this is a massive derail of this thread. Perhaps I will post a separate thread on the subject.

[Mister D]

Then you have to look at who defined capitalism and what it really means in the world. Capitalism is not Joe the grocery store owner and Hank the barber making a living in business for themselves. Capitalism is giant corporate interests manipulating the governments of the world to act on their behalf and paying to brainwash people to buy things that they don't need. Anyway, this is a massive derail of this thread. Perhaps I will post a separate thread on the subject.


I will certainly participate. Off to a local watering hole shortly. And I agree 100%. When I use the term "capitalism" I'm referring to much more than Hank the barber making a living. It's a system of values, and a vision of man.