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View Full Version : tPF It's not about Bernie Sanders



Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 06:03 PM
The accusation has been made elsewhere on the forum, mostly by JDubya, that Bernie Sanders is only doing so well because his supporters are immature and idolize Sanders. Up to this point I've mostly ignored the accusation and haven't bothered to counter it, except to point out that it is a total strawman, but over the past few days I've realized it's necessary to address not for his benefit, but for anyone else who might agree with that baseless charge. So, here is the simple fact about Bernie Sanders' rise in the Democratic Party.

It's not about Bernie Sanders.

Marco Rubio made a point in the last Republican debate that he represented the generation of kids who grew up during the Reagan revolution of the 1980s, ready to inherit the mantle of leadership. He released a new ad that echoed that sentiment, saying, "Thirty-six years ago this nation faced a period of doubt. After a failed presidency it felt like America was in decline, our economy was stagnant, and the American Dream felt like it was slipping away. And then we elected a president that inspired us, and who asked us to remember who we were and who believed, as we do, that America's greatest days always lie ahead. Well, now the children of the Reagan revolution are ready to assume the mantle of leadership."

Say what you will about Reagan's leadership and his policies, but it is indisputable that the 1980s under Ronald Reagan were a time of American resurgence, both at home and abroad. That is what Marco Rubio and others of his generation remember about growing up.

My generation and those after mine, who grew up in the 1990s and 2000s, have a different outlook. After a short boom under the first Clinton, everything came crashing down around us. I was born just one year into the 1990s, in 1991, during the Gulf War. I was only nine years old when the World Trade Center came down on September 11, 2001. A month later, just five days after my tenth birthday, the War in Afghanistan begun, and still rages today, fifteen years later, with no sign of slowing down. One year and about five months after the War in Afghanistan began, the Iraq War began. Despite officially "ending" in 2011, the Iraq War is getting ready to start right back up again because of the rise of ISIL in Iraq, Syria, and dozens of other spots across the Middle East and North Africa.

For those still under 18 like my little sister, who was born in 2000, this era of endless war, conflict, and economic stagnation is all they've known. Even for my generation, just entering our mid-20s, we haven't known much else. Alongside all of those conflicts, the guiding hand of Hillary Clinton could be seen. The housing policies pushed by her husband's administration led to the housing collapse of 2007, which caused my family to lose the first (and so far, last) house we ever owned. While in the Senate, Hillary supported both the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars, and even after the real reason for the war was made known, she fought every effort to end the war and bring our troops home. Some of those troops were members of my family, and good friends. During her time in the State Department as President Obama's Secretary of State, she pushed for other similar interventions, such as the intervention in Libya, that destabilized the Assad regime in Syria and threw the nation of Libya into chaos. She supported a radical Islamist group in Egypt after the overthrow of Mubarak. The Arab Spring she promoted and supported further destabilized nearly the entire Arabian Peninsula and North Africa. In every situation, ISIL has taken advantage of the power vacuum she enabled, and gained footholds in every one of those nations. So after all of that, I once again am looking at the possibility that more friends and family will be sent to die to fix Hillary Clinton's mistakes.

Now, granted, this wasn't all Hillary Clinton's fault. She had plenty of help from Republicans and Democrats alike, but only she is running for president and she is the only one I am being told (not asked) to support.

Amidst all of this, along comes an independent senator from Vermont, a self-described democratic socialist named Bernie Sanders. Sanders had been in Congress for thirty-five years and is a member of the FDR generation, yet for all of those thirty-five years in Congress and prior years as mayor of Burlington, Vermont, as well as a lifetime of activism, Sanders has consistently stood up for the same principles. Those principles are the polar opposite of Hillary Clinton. He favors realism in foreign policy, which strikes a balance between the reckless interventionism of Hillary Clinton and the non-interventionist, neo-isolationism of libertarians. He supports tuition-free college, which is important to my generation because unlike previous generations, college is now ridiculously unaffordable unless you are rich or go immediately into debt for probably the rest of your life (and in today's America, that education is necessary). He supports raising the minimum wage to reflect the fact that Americans have become more productive in the last forty years yet have seen their wages stagnate even as the cost of living rises. He supports raising it farther even than Hillary has been willing to raise it.

It's not about Bernie Sanders. It's about the ideas that Bernie Sanders professes and, unlike Hillary Clinton, he has a record to show that he really does hold those ideas. He is the only candidate right now that talks about issues that affect my generation without sounding like the hip grandma that tries to be in touch with the things her grandkids like (like Hillary Clinton).

Bernie Sanders is simply the leader of a movement, a movement that will long outlast him. It's a movement that America has seen before, in the 1890s and early 1900s (if you don't see the parallel yet you aren't paying attention), with the rise of Joseph Folk and Robert M. "Fighting Bob" LaFollette Sr., who challenged the party bosses and the party establishment (St. Louis Democrats for Folk and Wisconsin Republicans for Fighting Bob) to have a seat at their table in the governorships of Missouri and Wisconsin. The Progressive Era then, as now, was a reaction to the times and the choices Americans were given to lead them out of those times.

Professor Peabody
03-02-2016, 06:08 PM
Bernie Sanders is simply the leader of a movement, a movement that will long outlast him. It's a movement that America has seen before, in the 1890s and early 1900s (if you don't see the parallel yet you aren't paying attention), with the rise of Joseph Folk and Robert M. "Fighting Bob" LaFollette Sr., who challenged the party bosses and the party establishment (St. Louis Democrats for Folk and Wisconsin Republicans for Fighting Bob) to have a seat at their table in the governorships of Missouri and Wisconsin. The Progressive Era then, as now, was a reaction to the times and the choices Americans were given to lead them out of those times. Like Occupy Wall St?

Matty
03-02-2016, 06:10 PM
So you believe stuff is free? Wow!

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 06:10 PM
Like Occupy Wall St?

Occupy was leaderless and had no direction, that was their downfall. The Progressive Movement has never been leaderless. We were not leaderless during our first rise in 1890-1920 and we are not leaderless now. That, and we have a clear direction.

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 06:11 PM
So you believe stuff is free? Wow!

Never said that.

Matty
03-02-2016, 06:12 PM
Never said that.


Yes! You did. He's offered you free college. You said that's one of the reasons you are voting for him. So I am asking, do you believe there is free stuff?

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 06:14 PM
Yes! You did. He's offered you free college. You said that's one of the reasons you are voting for him. So I am asking, do you believe there is free stuff?

No, I do not. I have yet to meet a Sanders supporter that believes in "free stuff." That is an oversimplification of Sanders' positions.

Matty
03-02-2016, 06:18 PM
No, I do not. I have yet to meet a Sanders supporter that believes in "free stuff." That is an oversimplification of Sanders' positions.



He supports tuition-free college, which is important to my generation because unlike previous generations, college is now ridiculously unaffordable unless you are rich or go immediately into debt for probably the rest of your life (and in today's America, that education is necessary). He supports raising the minimum wage to reflect the fact that Americans have become more productive in the last forty years yet have seen their wages stagnate even as the cost of living rises. He supports raising it farther even than Hillary has been willing to raise it.



there it is! And you know that college is ridiculously expensive now because Sanders and his ilk namely Obama put student loans squarely in the hands of the Feds. So, if stuff isn't free, who do you think will pay for it and how?


and, who is gonna pay for the $15.00 per hour wage?

Professor Peabody
03-02-2016, 06:21 PM
Occupy was leaderless and had no direction, that was their downfall. The Progressive Movement has never been leaderless. We were not leaderless during our first rise in 1890-1920 and we are not leaderless now. That, and we have a clear direction.

Do you realize Sanders position on Wall St is very similar to that of David Dukes who was a big supporter of Occupy Wall St??

kilgram
03-02-2016, 06:26 PM
He supports tuition-free college, which is important to my generation because unlike previous generations, college is now ridiculously unaffordable unless you are rich or go immediately into debt for probably the rest of your life (and in today's America, that education is necessary). He supports raising the minimum wage to reflect the fact that Americans have become more productive in the last forty years yet have seen their wages stagnate even as the cost of living rises. He supports raising it farther even than Hillary has been willing to raise it.



there it is! And you know that college is ridiculously expensive now because Sanders and his ilk namely Obama put student loans squarely in the hands of the Feds. So, if stuff isn't free, who do you think will pay for it and how?


and, who is gonna pay for the $15.00 per hour wage?
Tuition free college is not free stuff!!!

In Europe we have tuition free colleges. And the results are great. But I am not going further than this. Is repeating the same discussion with someone who is not able to see further his nose.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk

Matty
03-02-2016, 06:32 PM
Tuition free college is not free stuff!!!

In Europe we have tuition free colleges. And the results are great. But I am not going further than this. Is repeating the same discussion with someone who is not able to see further his nose.

Отправлено с моего Aquaris E5 через Tapatalk





Right. So politicians promise some citizens free stuff and they have to take from those who managed to get themselves through school by working one or two jobs. I see that now. Your's and Green Apple's generation are known as Buttercups".

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 06:53 PM
Do you realize Sanders position on Wall St is very similar to that of David Dukes who was a big supporter of Occupy Wall St??

Yes. What is your point?

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 06:56 PM
there it is! And you know that college is ridiculously expensive now because Sanders and his ilk namely Obama put student loans squarely in the hands of the Feds. So, if stuff isn't free, who do you think will pay for it and how?

It will be paid for by taxes in Sanders' system. I would pay for it with a combination of taxes and lottery funds.


and, who is gonna pay for the $15.00 per hour wage?

Consumers.

Matty
03-02-2016, 06:58 PM
It will be paid for by taxes in Sanders' system. I would pay for it with a combination of taxes and lottery funds.



Consumers.


Yeah! So you do believe in free stuff.

Matty
03-02-2016, 07:00 PM
Next question. When Bernie has managed to steal and spend everyone's money til the country is leveled then what? What will you do with all your free stuff? You know there aren't enough tax monies in the world to pay for all his free stuff.

Matty
03-02-2016, 07:01 PM
That's why old Bernie will never be elected.

Tahuyaman
03-02-2016, 07:16 PM
Occupy was leaderless and had no direction, that was their downfall. The Progressive Movement has never been leaderless. We were not leaderless during our first rise in 1890-1920 and we are not leaderless now. That, and we have a clear direction.

Anarchists took over of the occupy Wall Street movement. The occupy wall street thing isn't relevant to this discussion.

kilgram
03-02-2016, 07:18 PM
Right. So politicians promise some citizens free stuff and they have to take from those who managed to get themselves through school by working one or two jobs. I see that now. Your's and Green Apple's generation are known as Buttercups".
You know that I am European, right? :)

kilgram
03-02-2016, 07:20 PM
Next question. When Bernie has managed to steal and spend everyone's money til the country is leveled then what? What will you do with all your free stuff? You know there aren't enough tax monies in the world to pay for all his free stuff.

Are you certain? Do you base in what?

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 08:06 PM
Yeah! So you do believe in free stuff.

I'm making a good faith effort to have a serious discussion with you. If you're not going to show me that same courtesy then I will not continue to put up with you crapping in my thread.

I do not believe in free stuff. I believe in stuff everyone, particularly those that will use the service, pays for. "Free" in this context doesn't mean free of cost, it just means the direct cost - tuition - is removed. Nobody pays for primary education directly, so in that sense it is free. They pay for it indirectly, through taxes.

Ethereal
03-02-2016, 08:06 PM
I'm making a good faith effort to have a serious discussion with you.

That was your first mistake.

Matty
03-02-2016, 08:08 PM
I'm making a good faith effort to have a serious discussion with you. If you're not going to show me that same courtesy then I will not continue to put up with you crapping in my thread.

I do not believe in free stuff. I believe in stuff everyone, particularly those that will use the service, pays for. "Free" in this context doesn't mean free of cost, it just means the direct cost - tuition - is removed. Nobody pays for primary education directly, so in that sense it is free. They pay for it indirectly, through taxes.


All right. Then let me approach it this way. Do you believe everyone should pay federal taxes? If you don't then you believe in free stuff.

Matty
03-02-2016, 08:10 PM
Bernie would serve better to go back and make student loans competitive. And take it off the backs of taxpayers.

Ethereal
03-02-2016, 08:11 PM
He favors realism in foreign policy, which strikes a balance between the reckless interventionism of Hillary Clinton and the non-interventionist, neo-isolationism of libertarians. .

Why do people keep calling libertarians "isolationists" or "neo-isolationists"? Isolationism implies economic protectionism, which is fundamentally at odds with libertarian advocacy of free trade and travel between countries. Libertarians, whatever they are, are not isolationists, neo or otherwise.

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 08:21 PM
Why do people keep calling libertarians "isolationists" or "neo-isolationists"? Isolationism implies economic protectionism, which is fundamentally at odds with libertarian advocacy of free trade and travel between countries. Libertarians, whatever they are, are not isolationists, neo or otherwise.

It wasn't an insult and I called them non-interventionist first. Broadly, libertarians are non-interventionists, but there are many in the movement - donttread on this forum comes to mind - that are at best neo-isolationist. That's just a fact. You may disagree with them just as much as you disagree with interventionists, and I disagree with them too, but what they advocate borders heavily on isolationism.

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 08:21 PM
All right. Then let me approach it this way. Do you believe everyone should pay federal taxes? If you don't then you believe in free stuff.

Yes, I do.

Matty
03-02-2016, 08:23 PM
Yes, I do.


Good, then petition Bernie to pass a flat tax. Now how much will you pay for free education and healthcare?

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 08:26 PM
Good, then petition Bernie to pass a flat tax.

That is one of many ideas that could work.


Now how much will you pay for free education and healthcare?

I haven't completely worked that out yet but it should be minimal once we factor in the lottery budget.

Ethereal
03-02-2016, 08:27 PM
It wasn't an insult and I called them non-interventionist first. Broadly, libertarians are non-interventionists, but there are many in the movement - donttread on this forum comes to mind - that are at best neo-isolationist. That's just a fact. You may disagree with them just as much as you disagree with interventionists, and I disagree with them too, but what they advocate borders heavily on isolationism.

Those people would be better described as paleoconservatives, not libertarians. Patrick Buchanan is a good example of a paleoconservative. Unlike libertarians, they are opposed to liberalized trade and immigration policies. Paleoconservatives and libertarians both agree on non-interventionist foreign policy, but they are diametric opposites when it comes to economic protectionism and nationalism.

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 08:30 PM
Those people would be better described as paleoconservatives, not libertarians. Patrick Buchanan is a good example of a paleoconservative. Unlike libertarians, they are opposed to liberalized trade and immigration policies. Paleoconservatives and libertarians both agree on non-interventionist foreign policy, but they are diametric opposites when it comes to economic protectionism and nationalism.

Well, they call themselves libertarians, which is why I did.

Ethereal
03-02-2016, 08:32 PM
Well, they call themselves libertarians, which is why I did.

They are mistaken.

Matty
03-02-2016, 08:45 PM
That is one of many ideas that could work.



I haven't completely worked that out yet but it should be minimal once we factor in the lottery budget.
Lottery budget? That hasn't worked out. They told us in Florida if we would just vote the lottery in it would pay for education. Well guess what? It didn't.

del
03-02-2016, 08:46 PM
Lottery budget? That hasn't worked out. They told us in Florida if we would just vote the lottery in it would pay for education. Well guess what? It didn't.

florida fails at a lot of things

JDubya
03-02-2016, 08:49 PM
The thing about Bernie's positions and promises is that he has yet to explain how he's going to accomplish them. Because Bernie Sanders in the WH or not, there will still be more than enough Republicans in Congress (remember them, Green Arrow?) to stymie any attempts in the direction of free college or free health care he even so much as thinks of attempting.

The problem with your youthful exuberance and idealism is that young people have a tendency to elevate people to hero status, who later turn out to be only human and disappoint you.

Ask Hillary Clinton about proposing universal free health care to a Republican Congress. Back when you were just a wee little baby, while First Lady, she put together a little proposal that came to be known as "Hillarycare". Never saw the light of day. Sadly, even some Democrats were involved in crushing it. And you think Sanders somehow has a chance of pushing the same program thru a divided legislature? Remember how much trouble Obama had pushing through what, up until he adopted it, had been the Republicans' own health care plan, proposed as an alternative to the aforementioned Hillarycare? He barely got it passed with the help of one Republican Senator who was about to retire.

This "revolution" you all are imagining will go the way of all the social revolutions before it. The peace and love movement of the 60's, the "Moral Majority" movement of the late 70's/early 80's, the Reagan Revolution of the mid/late 80's, the Occupy Movement.... all of them just quietly faded away with barely a whimper.

You're chasing clouds my friend. We older folks who've lived life and been where you are prefer pragmatic realism. Someone who will be able to go toe to toe and blow for blow with those hard-ass hammerheads on the right.

Bernie would fold up and unravel like one of his old suits.

Ethereal
03-02-2016, 08:54 PM
Pragmatic realism... otherwise known as being owned by the military-industrial complex and Wall Street.

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 08:54 PM
Lottery budget? That hasn't worked out. They told us in Florida if we would just vote the lottery in it would pay for education. Well guess what? It didn't.

Florida sucks, what else is new? Here in Tennessee we're using the lottery revenue to pay for the majority of the cost of two years free community college/trade school and so far it's working out well.

Ethereal
03-02-2016, 09:00 PM
Some examples of Clinton's "pragmatic realism" at work...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2013/07/Mideast-Iraq-Violence_Horo-635x357.jpg
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/80772000/jpg/_80772948_derna.jpg
http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-RT254_1syria_G_20120210061545.jpg

del
03-02-2016, 09:00 PM
condescending horseshit eliminated for the sake of brevity

Ask Hillary Clinton about proposing universal free health care to a Republican Congress. Back when you were just a wee little baby, while First Lady, she put together a little proposal that came to be known as "Hillarycare". Never saw the light of day. Sadly, even some Democrats were involved in crushing it.

iirc, and i do, there were a fair number of people, dem and republican, black and white, young and old, christian and jew who felt that perhaps hillary should shut the fuck up as she wasn't elected to any office.

of course, her outstanding people skills and well known ability to negotiate should have been enough to see hillarycare to fruition.

sadly, as her later efforts in libya, syria and russia showed, those skills don't exist.

you may resume her tongue bath now.

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 09:07 PM
The thing about Bernie's positions and promises is that he has yet to explain how he's going to accomplish them.

He has, actually. Why is it even a question, though? He's worked across the aisle with senators from both parties toward meaningful legislation, like criminal justice reform efforts with Rand Paul and Cory Booker.

Bernie's said from the start that we will transform this country through a political revolution. It's always been about the people rising up and demanding change.


Because Bernie Sanders in the WH or not, there will still be more than enough Republicans in Congress (remember them, @Green Arrow (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=868)?) to stymie any attempts in the direction of free college or free health care he even so much as thinks of attempting.

How many Republicans expanded Medicare/Medicaid in their states? My own state of Tennessee, a Republican supermajority, passed the first free college in the nation. It's only two years and only for community college and trade school, but it's a step in the right direction, a state that even Democrat-controlled states haven't taken.


The problem with your youthful exuberance and idealism is that young people have a tendency to elevate people to hero status, who later turn out to be only human and disappoint you.

Again...that's not happening. Bernie Sanders is just the leader of a movement I follow. If he turncoated tomorrow I'd be disappointed, sure, but I'd move on.

Of course, that's unlikely. He's been fighting for the same ideals his entire life, why stop now?


This "revolution" you all are imagining will go the way of all the social revolutions before it. The peace and love movement of the 60's, the "Moral Majority" movement of the late 70's/early 80's, the Reagan Revolution of the mid/late 80's, the Occupy Movement.... all of them just quietly faded away with barely a whimper.

Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe this one has legs. The movement today very closely mirrors the Progressive Era that lasted from about 1890 to 1920 and America today is very different because of it, even after the movement itself faded away.


You're chasing clouds my friend. We older folks who've lived life and been where you are prefer pragmatic realism. Someone who will be able to go toe to toe and blow for blow with those hard-ass hammerheads on the right.

Pragmatic realism doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you do what Hillary has done and compromise all your values in the name of getting along. If she had put up a fight against the Iraq War like Sanders and others in the House and Senate did in 2002-2003, used all of that influence she had to effect real change, we'd be in a very different place right now.

But she didn't. Every step of the way she went along with the Republicans. It's for that reason I can't support her, whether she's the "pragmatic" choice or not.


Bernie would fold up and unravel like one of his old suits.

Bernie's been beating Republicans and Democrats alike for forty years. I'm confident we have a fighter.

At any rate, I respect your argument. You have your reasons for supporting Hillary. All I'm asking is that you respect and not belittle my (in my opinion) very legitimate reasons to not support her and support Sanders instead.

Next cycle it will be Elizabeth Warren, if she decides to run (and I hope she does). Or maybe Tulsi Gabbard.

Matty
03-02-2016, 09:11 PM
Florida sucks, what else is new? Here in Tennessee we're using the lottery revenue to pay for the majority of the cost of two years free community college/trade school and so far it's working out well.


No. Tennessee sucks.

Matty
03-02-2016, 09:12 PM
He has, actually. Why is it even a question, though? He's worked across the aisle with senators from both parties toward meaningful legislation, like criminal justice reform efforts with Rand Paul and Cory Booker.

Bernie's said from the start that we will transform this country through a political revolution. It's always been about the people rising up and demanding change.



How many Republicans expanded Medicare/Medicaid in their states? My own state of Tennessee, a Republican supermajority, passed the first free college in the nation. It's only two years and only for community college and trade school, but it's a step in the right direction, a state that even Democrat-controlled states haven't taken.



Again...that's not happening. Bernie Sanders is just the leader of a movement I follow. If he turncoated tomorrow I'd be disappointed, sure, but I'd move on.

Of course, that's unlikely. He's been fighting for the same ideals his entire life, why stop now?



Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe this one has legs. The movement today very closely mirrors the Progressive Era that lasted from about 1890 to 1920 and America today is very different because of it, even after the movement itself faded away.



Pragmatic realism doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you do what Hillary has done and compromise all your values in the name of getting along. If she had put up a fight against the Iraq War like Sanders and others in the House and Senate did in 2002-2003, used all of that influence she had to effect real change, we'd be in a very different place right now.

But she didn't. Every step of the way she went along with the Republicans. It's for that reason I can't support her, whether she's the "pragmatic" choice or not.



Bernie's been beating Republicans and Democrats alike for forty years. I'm confident we have a fighter.

At any rate, I respect your argument. You have your reasons for supporting Hillary. All I'm asking is that you respect and not belittle my (in my opinion) very legitimate reasons to not support her and support Sanders instead.

Next cycle it will be Elizabeth Warren, if she decides to run (and I hope she does). Or maybe Tulsi Gabbard.


Bernie Sanders has lived off the tax payer his whole adult life.



Bernie Sanders is beloved by a lot of people who live in their parents' basement and work part time to pay the bare minimum on the student loans they collected in pursuit of their Gender Studies degrees. Ostensibly, this is because your typical Millennial ne'er do well is fascinated by the idea of receiving things for free from the government in return for maintaining their citizenship, or because they heard about Bernie Sanders in their subversive knitting group or picked up a campaign flier at Urban Outfitters.
But if it turns out that the "takers" of the world are seeing their own reflection in Bernie's LensCrafters clearance section specs, it's because, it turns out, Bernie Sanders is, indeed, one of their own: a man who failed to earn a decent paycheck for actual work until almost his 40th birthday (http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/bernie-sanders-the-bum-who-wants-your-money/).

Despite a prestigious degree, however, Sanders failed to earn a living, even as an adult. It took him 40 years to collect his first steady paycheck — and it was a government check.
“I never had any money my entire life,” Sanders told Vermont public TV in 1985, after settling into his first real job as mayor of Burlington.

Ethereal
03-02-2016, 09:13 PM
Or maybe Tulsi Gabbard.

I like the cut of her jib.

Matty
03-02-2016, 09:14 PM
http://spectator.org/blog/65498/bernie-sanders-didnt-make-paycheck-until-he-turned-40

del
03-02-2016, 09:14 PM
Bernie Sanders has lived off the tax payer his whole adult life.

so have paul ryan, scott walker and marco rubio

what's your point, if any?

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 09:15 PM
No. Tennessee sucks.

Nothing beats this view:

https://nthp-savingplaces.s3.amazonaws.com/2015/07/31/15/47/06/510/140507_blog_photo_Chattanooga_Skyline_chattanoogaf un.jpg

Matty
03-02-2016, 09:16 PM
so have paul ryan, scott walker and marco rubio

what's your point, if any?




Are they 78?

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 09:17 PM
I like the cut of her jib.

I, too, like the cut of her jib. She's not bad on the eyes either.

http://shoebat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/tulsi-gabbard-new-mug-e1367375549796.jpg

del
03-02-2016, 09:17 PM
Are they 78?

no, neither is bernie

again, what's your point?

that professional politicians work for the govt?

i'll alert the media

Matty
03-02-2016, 09:20 PM
again, what's your point?

that professional politicians work for the govt?

i'll alert the media



He was was unemployed til he was 40. I was working at 17. How about you? I put myself through school too.

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 09:20 PM
He was was unemployed til he was 40. I was working at 17. How about you? I put myself through school too.

When you put yourself through school it was still possible to do so. It is no longer possible to do so.

Matty
03-02-2016, 09:20 PM
Nothing beats this view:

https://nthp-savingplaces.s3.amazonaws.com/2015/07/31/15/47/06/510/140507_blog_photo_Chattanooga_Skyline_chattanoogaf un.jpg
Honey! There is one hellava lot that beats that view!

Matty
03-02-2016, 09:21 PM
When you put yourself through school it was still possible to do so. It is no longer possible to do so.


Because of bernie and his Obama friends. Write him a thank you note!

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 09:22 PM
Matty, none of the snide comments about Bernie are relevant. The topic of the thread is quite literally that it's not about Bernie.

Green Arrow
03-02-2016, 09:22 PM
Because of bernie and his Obama friends. Write him a thank you note!

It was a problem that started long before Obama and Bernie came into the U.S. Congress.

del
03-02-2016, 09:23 PM
He was was unemployed til he was 40. I was working at 17. How about you? I put myself through school too.

i can't help you if you're going to believe the horseshit american expectorator prints, and i don't care enough to try to convince you otherwise.

bernie's worked all his life

*shrug

JDubya
03-03-2016, 12:27 AM
No. Tennessee sucks.

Big time.

No wonder they have to give away free college.

If they didn't give it away for free, them cousin-humping yahoos would never even put on shoes and come down out of the hills.

http://www.animationplayhouse.com/hillbilly.gif

Yeeeee hawwww!!!!
I gots me sum free college!!!

Of course, what passes for "college" in Tennessee is what most states would call high school.

JDubya
03-03-2016, 12:41 AM
Bernie Sanders has lived off the tax payer his whole adult life.

Bernie Sanders is beloved by a lot of people who live in their parents' basement and work part time to pay the bare minimum on the student loans they collected in pursuit of their Gender Studies degrees. Ostensibly, this is because your typical Millennial ne'er do well is fascinated by the idea of receiving things for free from the government in return for maintaining their citizenship, or because they heard about Bernie Sanders in their subversive knitting group or picked up a campaign flier at Urban Outfitters.
But if it turns out that the "takers" of the world are seeing their own reflection in Bernie's LensCrafters clearance section specs, it's because, it turns out, Bernie Sanders is, indeed, one of their own: a man who failed to earn a decent paycheck for actual work until almost his 40th birthday (http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/bernie-sanders-the-bum-who-wants-your-money/).
Despite a prestigious degree, however, Sanders failed to earn a living, even as an adult. It took him 40 years to collect his first steady paycheck — and it was a government check.
“I never had any money my entire life,” Sanders told Vermont public TV in 1985, after settling into his first real job as mayor of Burlington.



I don't normally agree with your posts, but that was funny and spot on.

Sanders is a lazy bum who's running a scam on a bunch of impressionable young dupes.

And given the level of shilling del has been engaging in, some impressionable old fart dupes, too.

Watching ol' BS swirl down the crapper is going to be a pleasure surpassed only by the tears of butthurt that will be running down the cheeks of his "Bern out" followers.

del
03-03-2016, 01:21 AM
I don't normally agree with your posts, but that was funny and spot on.

Sanders is a lazy bum who's running a scam on a bunch of impressionable young dupes.

And given the level of shilling @del (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=770) has been engaging in, some impressionable old fart dupes, too.

Watching ol' BS swirl down the crapper is going to be a pleasure surpassed only by the tears of butthurt that will be running down the cheeks of his "Bern out" followers.

lol