View Full Version : tPF The Main Casualty of Cancelled Trump Rally Is The Idea of Free Speech
Chris
03-12-2016, 04:52 PM
Trump isn't to blame alone for the violence.
The Main Casualty of Cancelled Trump Rally Is The Idea of Free Speech (http://reason.com/blog/2016/03/12/the-main-casualty-of-cancelled-trump-ral)
So Donald Trump, the repellent and bullying frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination, cancelled a rally in Chicago yesterday after things got testy in a way he didn't care for. That's his prerogative, of course, though accounts vary as to whether the situation was as threatening as the Trump campaign claimed. Things had gotten ugly at a St. Louis event prior to Chicago, but then again, Trump himself has vaguely sanctioned violent reprisals against demonstrators at his events.
That sort of thing has progs such as Rachel Maddow insinuating that The Donald is working some sort of Black Hundreds program, creating a situation that can only be solved by...the guy who creates it:
“Violence at these events, which may start organically, is in effect spot lit and encouraged to the point where it becomes something that is legitimately out of control of anyone,” she explained. “And then the spectacle of political violence is itself seen as something that is a problem that needs to be solved by this strongman character who incited the initial event in the first place.”
Yeah, not so much. At the same time that Trump and at least some of his followers are cretinous goons, there's an equally problematic counter-dynamic at work as well: The anti-free-speech mentality that's extremely pervasive throughout the American left that is summed by the slogan of a prominent Bernie Sanders supporter who helped organize the anti-Trump show in Chicago: “Everyone, get your tickets to this. We’re all going in!!!! #SHUTITDOWN."
Shut it down! How cool is that? It's just like a college campus, where speakers aren't challenged on unpopular viewpoints but simply disinvited or shouted down to a degree that a thug's veto prevails....
Cigar
03-12-2016, 05:03 PM
Donald Free to say what ever he wants on the corner of 47th and King Drive in Chicago ...
Any bets on if he has the balls?
Chris
03-12-2016, 05:35 PM
Donald Free to say what ever he wants on the corner of 47th and King Drive in Chicago ...
Any bets on if he has the balls?
Seems he chose to avoid the violence implied by such statements.
Doublejack
03-12-2016, 05:48 PM
Trump: "Bernie can't even defend his microphone, how will he defend the country?"
lol I suppose cutting and running is how Trump deals with these issues. Does this mean he will cut and run from the country when things get too hard for him?
Quicksilver
03-12-2016, 05:54 PM
Donald Free to say what ever he wants on the corner of 47th and King Drive in Chicago ...
Any bets on if he has the balls?
He wouldn't have been too far from there. The rally was on the U of C campus.
did the government shut down his rally?
no? then where is the loss of freedom of speech?
obvious horseshit is obvious.
Peter1469
03-12-2016, 07:57 PM
It was Bernie supporters that ran amok.
Quicksilver
03-12-2016, 08:10 PM
It was Bernie supporters that ran amok.
Proof? That is doubtful... What shut down that clusterf&Ck was Trumps big mouth and race baiting.. The protesters had just as much right to be their voicing their disagreement as the Trump supporters did. THAT's "Muricka.. remember.. EVERYONE has the same freedoms no matter what color you are like it or not.
Mac-7
03-12-2016, 08:14 PM
I was critical of trump yesterday for canceling the rally.
It was a mistake in judgement by him.
But today he is standing up to the anti democratic democrats so Trump has corrected his error and is coming back stronger than ever.
Peter1469
03-12-2016, 08:15 PM
Proof? That is doubtful... What shut down that clusterf&Ck was Trumps big mouth and race baiting.. The protesters had just as much right to be their voicing their disagreement as the Trump supporters did. THAT's "Muricka.. remember.. EVERYONE has the same freedoms no matter what color you are like it or not.
Read the news. Bernie supporters are causing the trouble. :wink:
Chris
03-12-2016, 08:38 PM
Trump: "Bernie can't even defend his microphone, how will he defend the country?"
lol I suppose cutting and running is how Trump deals with these issues. Does this mean he will cut and run from the country when things get too hard for him?
Probably. I have nothing for Trump, think he is and would be a disaster politically for the country.
The point here though is that the reaction to it is the same thing, not yours, but those who would seek to silence him, to meet violence with violence, like we saw in Chicago.
Chris
03-12-2016, 08:39 PM
did the government shut down his rally?
no? then where is the loss of freedom of speech?
obvious horseshit is obvious.
No, people threatening to shut him down did. That's as bad as Trump. That ought to be obvious.
Chris
03-12-2016, 08:47 PM
Proof? That is doubtful... What shut down that clusterf&Ck was Trumps big mouth and race baiting.. The protesters had just as much right to be their voicing their disagreement as the Trump supporters did. THAT's "Muricka.. remember.. EVERYONE has the same freedoms no matter what color you are like it or not.
So then who were the protesters?
Subdermal
03-12-2016, 09:00 PM
did the government shut down his rally?
no? then where is the loss of freedom of speech?
obvious horse$#@! is obvious.
Did Trump not have an obligation to his supporters to de-escalate the situation, and separate the opposing parties - one of which has already demonstrated a willingness to riot and harm; the other of which has demonstrated an ability and desire to fight back?
Obvious stupidity is obvious.
Doublejack
03-12-2016, 09:17 PM
Probably. I have nothing for Trump, think he is and would be a disaster politically for the country.
The point here though is that the reaction to it is the same thing, not yours, but those who would seek to silence him, to meet violence with violence, like we saw in Chicago.
I saw the protest more about sticking it to the constituency more so than trying to silence Trump himself. Not that either action would be acceptable but it did seem inevitable given today's political climate.
No, people threatening to shut him down did. That's as bad as Trump. That ought to be obvious.
as it should be obvious that the first amendment has nothing to do with it, and yet...
Did Trump not have an obligation to his supporters to de-escalate the situation, and separate the opposing parties - one of which has already demonstrated a willingness to riot and harm; the other of which has demonstrated an ability and desire to fight back?
Obvious stupidity is obvious.
yes, yes it is.
thanks for the power of your example
Chris
03-12-2016, 11:20 PM
I saw the protest more about sticking it to the constituency more so than trying to silence Trump himself. Not that either action would be acceptable but it did seem inevitable given today's political climate.
Well, you're right, the confrontation was between supporters of different factions. Trump was no where in sight.
Chris
03-12-2016, 11:21 PM
as it should be obvious that the first amendment has nothing to do with it, and yet...
Strictly speaking, that's right, the first amendment only protects against the government preventing political speech. But liberal progressivism has stretched the Constitution beyond original intent.
Quicksilver
03-13-2016, 07:26 AM
So then who were the protesters?
Americans
zelmo1234
03-13-2016, 07:53 AM
Donald Free to say what ever he wants on the corner of 47th and King Drive in Chicago ...
Any bets on if he has the balls?
God I would love it if he would hire X's (Black Water) and go down there an do that? We could get ride of a few hundred of our worst scum in one night!
There you want to play this race and violence, I am now your Huckleberry as they said in the movie Tombstone. Every time you pull this I support black on white violence, I am right there with you. This scumbags should be planted in the ground and stop terrorizing the Good people of Chicago, no matter the color of their skin or economic back ground.
Safety
03-13-2016, 08:58 AM
lol
Crepitus
03-13-2016, 09:14 AM
Did Trump not have an obligation to his supporters to de-escalate the situation, and separate the opposing parties - one of which has already demonstrated a willingness to riot and harm; the other of which has demonstrated an ability and desire to fight back?
Obvious stupidity is obvious.
Wow! That may be the most obviously biased post I have ever seen pretend not to be.
This violence it Trump's doing. His rhetoric started it and his encouragement supports it.
We're back to "obvious horseshit is obvious".
sachem
03-13-2016, 09:26 AM
It was Bernie supporters that ran amok.The amok runners should pay the consequences. No matter who they support.
Peter1469
03-13-2016, 09:34 AM
The amok runners should pay the consequences. No matter who they support.
Agree
Chris
03-13-2016, 11:20 AM
Americans
OK, want to go that route, who were they protesting against but Americans. They both got violent.
Chris
03-13-2016, 11:23 AM
Did Trump not have an obligation to his supporters to de-escalate the situation, and separate the opposing parties - one of which has already demonstrated a willingness to riot and harm; the other of which has demonstrated an ability and desire to fight back?
Obvious stupidity is obvious.
Wow! That may be the most obviously biased post I have ever seen pretend not to be.
This violence it Trump's doing. His rhetoric started it and his encouragement supports it.
We're back to "obvious horseshit is obvious".
Have to disagree, Subdermal is blaming both sides for being violent and putting it on Trump to have de-escalated it.
Crepitus
03-13-2016, 11:59 AM
Have to disagree, @Subdermal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1758) is blaming both sides for being violent and putting it on Trump to have de-escalated it.
You're allowed to disagree. Doesn't make you any less biased than him.
Chris
03-13-2016, 12:01 PM
You're allowed to disagree. Doesn't make you any less biased than him.
I'm allowed, lol. Say he's biased all you want but it would help if you could show bias when he blames both sides and, like you, holds Trump responsible.
Crepitus
03-13-2016, 12:06 PM
I'm allowed, lol. Say he's biased all you want but it would help if you could show bias when he blames both sides and, like you, holds Trump responsible.
Yes, you are allowed. It's a free country.
Bias: one side riots and harms, other side fights back.
domer76
03-13-2016, 12:06 PM
Trump isn't to blame alone for the violence.
The Main Casualty of Cancelled Trump Rally Is The Idea of Free Speech (http://reason.com/blog/2016/03/12/the-main-casualty-of-cancelled-trump-ral)
Nope. Free speech not the issue.
Cigar
03-13-2016, 12:10 PM
Seems he chose to avoid the violence implied by such statements.
Yea keep saying that to your self
Chris
03-13-2016, 12:21 PM
Nope. Free speech not the issue.
OK, technically, I agree. But is it right to try and #shutitdown?
Chris
03-13-2016, 12:22 PM
Yea keep saying that to your self
...click my heels 3 times, and wake up home with Toto?
Chris
03-13-2016, 12:23 PM
Yes, you are allowed. It's a free country.
Bias: one side riots and harms, other side fights back.
Both sides did that.
why, it's the free market of ideas in action
pragmatic
03-13-2016, 12:24 PM
Proof? That is doubtful... What shut down that clusterf&Ck was Trumps big mouth and race baiting.. The protesters had just as much right to be their voicing their disagreement as the Trump supporters did. THAT's "Muricka.. remember.. EVERYONE has the same freedoms no matter what color you are like it or not.
No. They didn't.
That is why they were removed.
Chris
03-13-2016, 12:26 PM
why, it's the free market of ideas in action
Not a very good understanding of the free market if you think that. The free market is based on voluntary exchange, not violent force.
Not a very good understanding of the free market if you think that. The free market is based on voluntary exchange, not violent force.
they were there voluntarily and voluntarily became violent, did they not?
domer76
03-13-2016, 12:31 PM
Strictly speaking, that's right, the first amendment only protects against the government preventing political speech. But liberal progressivism has stretched the Constitution beyond original intent.
"Strictly speaking" = I really didn't know what I was talking about.
Strictly speaking, that's right, the first amendment only protects against the government preventing political speech. But liberal progressivism has stretched the Constitution beyond original intent.
then i would suggest you stop being a liberal progressive
Chris
03-13-2016, 12:41 PM
then i would suggest you stop being a liberal progressive
I'll try.
Chris
03-13-2016, 12:42 PM
they were there voluntarily and voluntarily became violent, did they not?
Yes, so I see you see the difference between voluntary and violent.
I'll try.
do your best
we don't expect much, and i'm sure you'll deliver
Chris
03-13-2016, 12:43 PM
"Strictly speaking" = I really didn't know what I was talking about.
No, you probably didn't know what you were talking about. That's OK.
Yes, so I see you see the difference between voluntary and violent.
can't fool you for long, huh?
Chris
03-13-2016, 12:44 PM
can't fool you for long, huh?
Do you have something to contribute to the topic, del?
domer76
03-13-2016, 01:04 PM
No, you probably didn't know what you were talking about. That's OK.
Nope. I know EXACTLY what the free speech of the First means. You, obviously didn't. But of course, that's "positive law" that you keep bitching about. Why would you attempt to learn about it?
TBed by OP. Please don't respond further to domer in this thread.
Crepitus
03-13-2016, 02:08 PM
Both sides did that.
But you do see where I'm filling bias yes?
Chris
03-13-2016, 02:10 PM
But you do see where I'm filling bias yes?
In what subdermal posted, no, I don't see bias there.
Green Arrow
03-13-2016, 02:49 PM
There are zero "free speech" implications here. Donald Trump has the right to speak and organize wherever he likes. Likewise, anti-Trump protestors have the right to speak and organize wherever they like. If the people of Chicago don't want Trump speaking in their city, he should not speak there. Emphasis on "should not" - he still can, but he should respect local autonomy and move on.
Until the government steps in and prevents him from speaking, this has nothing to do with free speech. Nobody "silenced" Donald Trump except Donald Trump.
Chris
03-13-2016, 02:53 PM
Yea, I think we've settled the free speech part of this.
There remains violent actions and reactions to try and shut others down.
suds00
03-13-2016, 03:56 PM
he's allegedly a billionaire.that means he's never wrong-not!
Subdermal
03-13-2016, 06:03 PM
You're allowed to disagree. Doesn't make you any less biased than him.
Where's the bias? I've blamed BOTH sides. How could that be biased? In fact, how could my post be biased, and your objection to it not?
PolWatch
03-13-2016, 06:34 PM
The only thing the cancellation shows is that Trump doesn't handle anyone disagreeing with him well. He didn't want to appear at the rally is the same as not wanting to attend a debate because a female moderator was mean to him. I suspect Trump is more familiar with paid yes-men than with free speech.
Tahuyaman
03-13-2016, 07:02 PM
It was Bernie supporters that ran amok.
Some people don't want to hear views which are contrary to theirs.
The odd thing is that these are the people who claim to be the most tolerant and open minded in our society. Their claims of tolerance and open mindedness last until you express a view thy disagree with. Then they show zero tolerance and go to any means to block your views from being heard.
Chris
03-13-2016, 07:08 PM
The only thing the cancellation shows is that Trump doesn't handle anyone disagreeing with him well. He didn't want to appear at the rally is the same as not wanting to attend a debate because a female moderator was mean to him. I suspect Trump is more familiar with paid yes-men than with free speech.
That may be true of Trump but I think he and his handlers feared worse violence.
Quicksilver
03-14-2016, 06:43 AM
Meh.... Trump knew exactly what he was doing holding a rally smack dab in a city that has been solid Democratic for longer than most people can remember. Not to mention on a college campus with a very large minority population. College campuses are always a hotbed for protest. IMO.. Trump had no intention of showing up to this rally. He fanned the flames in St.Louis.. opened the doors to the venue in Chicago and sat back and watched the show.. Then accused Bernie Sanders followers for creating the problem. People who cannot see through what Trump is intentionally creating are insane.. either that or are a blatantly racist and bigoted as Trump himself pretends to be. He's playing these fools like a fine violin.
Chris
03-14-2016, 08:15 AM
Meh.... Trump knew exactly what he was doing holding a rally smack dab in a city that has been solid Democratic for longer than most people can remember. Not to mention on a college campus with a very large minority population. College campuses are always a hotbed for protest. IMO.. Trump had no intention of showing up to this rally. He fanned the flames in St.Louis.. opened the doors to the venue in Chicago and sat back and watched the show.. Then accused Bernie Sanders followers for creating the problem. People who cannot see through what Trump is intentionally creating are insane.. either that or are a blatantly racist and bigoted as Trump himself pretends to be. He's playing these fools like a fine violin.
Let me guess, you're a Republican.
Quicksilver
03-14-2016, 08:20 AM
:spacecraft:
Cigar
03-14-2016, 08:23 AM
http://media.cagle.com/73/2016/03/12/176651_600.jpg
Cigar
03-14-2016, 08:25 AM
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoons/BenneC/2016/BenneC20160312_low.jpg
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.8 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.