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View Full Version : Immigation issue then and now



Common Sense
03-19-2016, 12:45 PM
Interesting video and a change in perspective.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixi9_cciy8w

Tahuyaman
03-19-2016, 01:16 PM
Not really much of a change. Still arguing the same points.

Common Sense
03-19-2016, 03:39 PM
Not really much of a change. Still arguing the same points.

Republicans are saying those sorts of things today?

Would a Republican today say something like this?...


"I'd like to see something done about the illegal alien problem that would be so sensitive, and so understanding about labor needs, and human needs, that that problem wouldn't come up. But today, if those people are here, I would reluctantly say they would get whatever it is, what society is giving their neighbors. But the problem has to be solved ... We're creating a whole society of really honorable, decent, family-loving people that are in violation of the law, and secondly we're exacerbating relations with Mexico. The answer to your question is much more fundamental than whether they attend Houston schools, it seems to me. I don't want to see ... six- and eight-year-old kids, being made, you know, one, totally uneducated, and being made to feel that they're living outside the law. Let's address ourselves to the fundamentals. These are good people, strong people. Part of my family is a Mexican."

How about this?...


"Rather than making them, of talking about putting up a fence, why don't we work out some recognition of our mutual problems, make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit, and then, while they're working and earning here, they pay taxes here. And when they want to go back they can go back, and cross. And open the border both ways, by understanding their problems. This is the only safety valve they have right now, with that unemployment, that probably keeps the lid from blowing off...And I think we could have a fine relationship."

The first quote is Bush, the second Reagan.

No one else watch it?

Mister D
03-19-2016, 04:35 PM
Republicans are saying those sorts of things today?

Would a Republican today say something like this?...



How about this?...



The first quote is Bush, the second Reagan.

No one else watch it?

I remember a few people here saying this, actually.



...why don't we work out some recognition of our mutual problems, make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit, and then, while they're working and earning here, they pay taxes here. And when they want to go back they can go back, and cross.

Mister D
03-19-2016, 04:35 PM
Including myself.

Tahuyaman
03-19-2016, 04:41 PM
Republicans are saying those sorts of things today?

uh...... Yes. The issue is basically unchanged over the past few decades.

Common Sense
03-19-2016, 04:42 PM
uh...... Yes. The issue is basically unchanged over the past few decades.

You don't see the vastly different rhetoric coming from Republicans today?

The comments by both Reagan and Bush are more similar to the comments of Democrats than Republicans.

Tahuyaman
03-19-2016, 04:58 PM
You don't see the vastly different rhetoric coming from Republicans today? .


No I don't, because they are not any different today.

Mac-7
03-21-2016, 06:17 AM
Republicans are saying those sorts of things today?

Would a Republican today say something like this?...



How about this?...



The first quote is Bush, the second Reagan.

No one else watch it?

I should not expect a canadian to give a hoot about unemployed Americans, but thats what we get when compassionate libs put the interests pf mexicans ahead of Americans.

donttread
03-21-2016, 06:32 AM
Not really much of a change. Still arguing the same points.


Still deflecting and using the ole smoke and morrors, you mean. Illegal immigration serves the Donkephant well, which is why it hasn't been dealt with yet and why it won't be dealt with in the next 4-8 years either

Mac-7
03-21-2016, 06:39 AM
Still deflecting and using the ole smoke and morrors, you mean. Illegal immigration serves the Donkephant well, which is why it hasn't been dealt with yet and why it won't be dealt with in the next 4-8 years either

Amd you are still chanting the same Woe-is-us We-cant-anything nonsense that helps prevent positive change.

Why dont you vote for trump or cruz if yoy care so much?

FindersKeepers
03-21-2016, 06:44 AM
Still deflecting and using the ole smoke and morrors, you mean. Illegal immigration serves the Donkephant well, which is why it hasn't been dealt with yet and why it won't be dealt with in the next 4-8 years either

"Immigration," not "illegal immigration."

Sure, we have an aging populace and we need more young workers to support our poorly-thought-out Social Security system that's preparing to explode with the ranks of the Baby Boomers.

That doesn't mean we should allow illegal immigration.

Close the border to the south.
Increase LEGAL immigration -- from MANY countries -- just increase vetting procedures at the same time.

That's all that's necessary.

Common Sense
03-21-2016, 07:46 AM
I should not expect a canadian to give a hoot about unemployed Americans, but thats what we get when compassionate libs put the interests pf mexicans ahead of Americans.

Are you saying Reagan and Bush senior put "Mexicans ahead of Americans"?

MisterVeritis
03-21-2016, 08:39 AM
"Immigration," not "illegal immigration."

Sure, we have an aging populace and we need more young workers to support our poorly-thought-out Social Security system that's preparing to explode with the ranks of the Baby Boomers.

That doesn't mean we should allow illegal immigration.

Close the border to the south.
Increase LEGAL immigration -- from MANY countries -- just increase vetting procedures at the same time.

That's all that's necessary.
The end result will be the same. Increasing immigration without changing who we allow in will result in one party, democratic party rule. The radical leftists cheer that Obama is bringing in as many dumb, sick, impoverished brown and black people from authoritarian nations. This has two benefits for Democrats. First, it punishes their enemies, productive Americans, by stealing their wealth to redistribute to the "new" democratic party voting base. Second, it increases the numbers of people who live on their knees with their hands stretched out to the government. In a few more years there will be more of them, the unproductive than there are of us, the productive. That is an enormous win for Democrat party masterminds. And Democrats are generally too stupid to realize how much damage the democratic party policies are to them.

PolWatch
03-21-2016, 08:45 AM
Are you saying Reagan and Bush senior put "Mexicans ahead of Americans"?

Reagan & Bush had other hot button issues to fire up their base. Their hot button issues (abortion & gay rights) have been resolved so today's repubs need something to get people emotional. Illegal immigration will never be dealt with because our economy depends on cheap, easily intimidated labor.

Chris
03-21-2016, 09:13 AM
Ah, the old argument from hypocrisy. Let's play. From http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/26/when-the-entire-democratic-party-was-lik



[W]e must remain a nation of laws. We cannot tolerate illegal immigration and we must stop it. For years […], Washington talked tough but failed to act….[O]ur borders might as well not have existed. The border was under-patrolled, and what patrols there were, were under-equipped. Drugs flowed freely. Illegal immigration was rampant. Criminal immigrants, deported after committing crimes in America, returned the very next day to commit crimes again.


OK, so the headline gives it away, but that's the Democratic Party's official platform for 1996.

My God, that sounds like Trump.

Mac-7
03-21-2016, 09:25 AM
Are you saying Reagan and Bush senior put "Mexicans ahead of Americans"?

Technically yes.

it was reagans greatest policy mistake.

but 30 years ago it was a different situation than we have now so what RR did then does not prove what he would do today.

Mac-7
03-21-2016, 09:32 AM
Reagan & Bush had other hot button issues to fire up their base. Their hot button issues (abortion & gay rights) have been resolved so today's repubs need something to get people emotional. Illegal immigration will never be dealt with because our economy depends on cheap, easily intimidated labor.

Dont be silly.

reagan - you keep saying bush but HW was only the VP and not an important part of the 1986 amnesty - but reagan took a lot of heat from his base at the time.

but it was a much smaller problem n 1986 with only 3 million shoeless mexicans begging for amnesty.

And our manufacturing base and overall economy was much better then.

Adelaide
03-21-2016, 09:39 AM
I think that the problem of illegal immigration has spiraled completely out of control in the United States which is why the rhetoric is harsher and quite frankly more mean and insensitive.

People born to places like the United States or Canada or large parts of Europe only immigrate for "luxury" purposes - they marry someone from another place, or they want to work in another country in a high paying job and they usually immigrate legally. There is a big contrast between those born in countries where they are lucky to have an almost guaranteed assurance they'll be safe, fed, clothed, protected from abject poverty, housed and not killed by drug cartels or revolutions. People born in many Central American countries or Mexico don't really have that so they end up migrating illegally. I believe we have to have some sympathy when we look at the issue of illegal immigration.

It doesn't make it less of a problem for Americans who are living in a society right now that has a lot of issues, especially concerning jobs, the economy, education, health care and the welfare system. All of those issues are impacted by illegal immigration and I am sure there are more.

Mac-7
03-21-2016, 09:47 AM
It doesn't make it less of a problem for Americans who are living in a society right now that has a lot of issues, especially concerning jobs, the economy, education, health care and the welfare system. All of those issues are impacted by illegal immigration and I am sure there are more.

Thank you.

but when open borders/amnesty democrats and republicans tell it they usually just simplify opposition to illegal aliens as hate and bigotry and zenophobia.

Adelaide
03-21-2016, 10:09 AM
Thank you.

but when open borders/amnesty democrats and republicans tell it they usually just simplify opposition to illegal aliens as hate and bigotry and zenophobia.

Well, some of the harsh rhetoric is what leads to that. Simple opposition to allowing illegal immigration isn't bigotry but saying they're all criminals and rapists is when it becomes a problem.

Mac-7
03-21-2016, 10:12 AM
Well, some of the harsh rhetoric is what leads to that. Simple opposition to allowing illegal immigration isn't bigotry but saying they're all criminals and rapists is when it becomes a problem.

How about saying that many are criminals?

which is true.

Trump has said that not all mexican illegals are criminals but far too many are.

Mac-7
03-21-2016, 10:15 AM
Trump is getting all the attention but ordinary Americans have been struggling with this issue for 30 years before trump came along.

This is about really about ordinary people more than about a media celebrity.

MisterVeritis
03-21-2016, 11:13 AM
Well, some of the harsh rhetoric is what leads to that. Simple opposition to allowing illegal immigration isn't bigotry but saying they're all criminals and rapists is when it becomes a problem.
Heere is what Trump said:

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”


How does one go from his statement to yours?

Mac-7
03-21-2016, 12:31 PM
Heere is what Trump said:

“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”


How does one go from his statement to yours?

I will be watching for Adelaides response.

but my guess is that distorting and misrepresenting is acceptable when its for a good cause.

the liberal media know the truth but they they are political activists Ndhave no interest in reporting the truth.

liberals like those we have here accept it and repeat it as fact

Mac-7
03-21-2016, 12:35 PM
The radio just minutes ago reported that an illegal alien with a hispanic name was arrested for pointing a lazer at a police helicopter

but without a fence if he gets deported he could be back in less than a week.