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Peter1469
04-02-2016, 08:56 PM
How Donald Trump & Hillary Clinton Have Made the Libertarian Party Relevant (http://reason.com/blog/2016/04/01/libertarian-party-2016-presidential)

It would be nice if a 3rd party could get some tracking this cycle.


Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, the likely presidential nominees of America’s two major political parties, would be among the best-known and most-disliked (http://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2016-02-26/the-most-hated-candidate) candidates in history. What better time for the Libertarian Party (LP) (http://www.lp.org/), the only third party that will be on all 50 states’ ballots, to make its move into the mainstream?

Reason spoke with a number of senior LP officials, party supporters, and philosphical fellow travelers about the unique opportunity presented by the 2016 election. Though all agreed the LP was in a great position to present a distinct political platform through a legitimately viable candidate, some were more optimistic than others about the prospects for success, or even by what measure success could be determined.


Is the goal the White House, or just altering the national conversation by getting on the main debate stage? The LP knows voters want an alternative, but the party continues to struggle with its sales pitch and structural realities of a two-party system that marginalizes alternative choices.

Mini Me
04-02-2016, 09:19 PM
What Libertarian Party? Who are they? Who are they running as candidates?

A lot of people claim to be libertarian, but have no party.

Peter1469
04-02-2016, 09:20 PM
What Libertarian Party? Who are they? Who are they running as candidates?

A lot of people claim to be libertarian, but have no party.


Correct. A libertarian is not necessarily part of the Libertarian Party (http://www.lp.org).

With our grammar rules a capital letter can make a lot of difference. Just say'in.

Crepitus
04-02-2016, 09:46 PM
What Libertarian Party? Who are they? Who are they running as candidates?

A lot of people claim to be libertarian, but have no party.

Yea, what he said. Does anyone outside of political junkies like folks here and on other boards know who their candidate is? What they stand for? what their plans are? Are there any in office anywhere? and so on.

No chance without that, and it's far to late this cycle to get people educated.

Peter1469
04-02-2016, 09:49 PM
Yea, what he said. Does anyone outside of political junkies like folks here and on other boards know who their candidate is? What they stand for? what their plans are? Are there any in office anywhere? and so on.

No chance without that, and it's far to late this cycle to get people educated.

Because most people don't follow politics; yet we see a strong surge toward the anti-Establishment candidates (Sanders and Trump). The ship is turning slowly.

Crepitus
04-02-2016, 09:52 PM
Because most people don't follow politics; yet we see a strong surge toward the anti-Establishment candidates (Sanders and Trump). The ship is turning slowly.
Sanders and Trump have something Gary Johnson and the rest of the merry crew of libertarian candidates don't.

Media coverage.

Peter1469
04-02-2016, 10:01 PM
True.

michiganFats
04-03-2016, 06:38 AM
I think if the Libertarian party were ever to become relevant it would have done so already. I don't think their problem is lack of exposure or even inertia as claimed in the OP article, their problem is people do know about them. Most people aren't Libertarian.

Peter1469
04-03-2016, 07:10 AM
I think if the Libertarian party were ever to become relevant it would have done so already. I don't think their problem is lack of exposure or even inertia as claimed in the OP article, their problem is people do know about them. Most people aren't Libertarian.

Or rather, most people do want more government in their lives. Not less. As our $19T debt gets larger, people will soon lose the opportunity to increase government in our lives.

michiganFats
04-03-2016, 07:52 AM
Or rather, most people do want more government in their lives. Not less. As our $19T debt gets larger, people will soon lose the opportunity to increase government in our lives.

The funny things about Libertarians, and I mean the Party here, is I've heard people over the years give a lot of different reasons for not liking them. Naive is a word I've heard a lot in conversations about the LP and it's never mattered what the topic of discussion was. I think the last 10 years have really hurt them because they seem to have really upped their social wackiness factor as opposed to 20 years ago when they had some success where I lived and were casting themselves more as principled Constitutionalists.

onecut
04-03-2016, 02:13 PM
How Donald Trump & Hillary Clinton Have Made the Libertarian Party Relevant (http://reason.com/blog/2016/04/01/libertarian-party-2016-presidential)

It would be nice if a 3rd party could get some tracking this cycle.

The Libertarian system and the Libertarian Party are not now and never have been relevant

onecut
04-03-2016, 02:15 PM
I think if the Libertarian party were ever to become relevant it would have done so already. I don't think their problem is lack of exposure or even inertia as claimed in the OP article, their problem is people do know about them. Most people aren't Libertarian.

I can think of nowhere that Libertarianism has been functional. (at least above the hunter/gatherer level) In the US their higest ranking official is the mayor of a small town. I doubt political affiliation in that race was relevant.

Peter1469
04-03-2016, 02:38 PM
The Libertarian system and the Libertarian Party are not now and never have been relevant

You are correct with your first assertion. Your second assertion is a wild guess.

Green Arrow
04-03-2016, 02:52 PM
If they can net 15% in the polls, they'll get to debate with Clinton and Trump in the general. That may help boost their already boosted standing.

Regardless, unless the establishment somehow finds a way to course-correct, we may be preparing to enter a new party system. Experts are still debating whether or not we're still in the Fifth Party System or in the Sixth, but either way, a new system seems inevitable. And it's long overdue - if this is still the Fifth Party System, it's the longest running party system in our history.

AZ Jim
04-03-2016, 02:58 PM
You are correct with your first assertion. Your second assertion is a wild guess.But in a small town, he has made good guess.

onecut
04-04-2016, 06:06 PM
You are correct with your first assertion. Your second assertion is a wild guess.

If you are talking about elected officials here it is not. I went back and looked it up and there was one change from the time I last saw it. Springfield Mo. ( pop.159,+++) now was a libertarian mayor. So there is one mayor of a fairy good sized city..

After that the picking gets a bit slim,

All mayors
Sumas Washington 1307
Quintans Texas 56
James Island Sout Carolina 11,821
Element Borough, Pennsyvania 18,042
Mountain Lake Park Maryland 2092
Bluffingto Georgia 103
Calimesa California 7879
Mineral Springs Maryland 1024
Lenoir City North Carolina ?????

onecut
04-04-2016, 06:33 PM
If you are talking about elected officials here it is not. I went back and looked it up and there was one change from the time I last saw it. Springfield Mo. ( pop.159,+++) now was a libertarian mayor. So there is one mayor of a fairy good sized city..

After that the picking gets a bit slim,

All mayors
Sumas Washington 1307
Quintans Texas 56
James Island Sout Carolina 11,821
Element Borough, Pennsyvania 18,042
Mountain Lake Park Maryland 2092
Bluffingto Georgia 103
Calimesa California 7879
Mineral Springs Maryland 1024
Lenoir City North Carolina ?????


And it seems there is a bitof trouble in Springfeild

http://www.news-leader.com/story/news/politics/2015/11/06/group-aims-recall-springfield-mayor/75308914/

onecut
04-04-2016, 06:35 PM
If they can net 15% in the polls, they'll get to debate with Clinton and Trump in the general. That may help boost their already boosted standing.

Regardless, unless the establishment somehow finds a way to course-correct, we may be preparing to enter a new party system. Experts are still debating whether or not we're still in the Fifth Party System or in the Sixth, but either way, a new system seems inevitable. And it's long overdue - if this is still the Fifth Party System, it's the longest running party system in our history.

Libertarians have never come close to 15%. In their heyday with Ed Clark I think they managed around 5%. NEVER APPROACHED THAT SINCE.

Mac-7
04-04-2016, 06:39 PM
Or rather, most people do want more government in their lives. Not less. As our $19T debt gets larger, people will soon lose the opportunity to increase government in our lives.

The 47% of Americans (as well as illegal aliens and foreign refugees) who almost totally depend on government that Romney was caught on audio referring to may actually be far more.

Perhsps well over 50% which means America's days as the envy of the world are coming to an end.

all the America hating foreigners who post here along with liberals who were born here stand up and cheer.

the time you have dreamed of for so long has almost arrived.

PolWatch
04-04-2016, 06:46 PM
I think that more people realize that 2 major parties do not reflect the priorities of all voters. After this election cycle we may see the creation of more parties. I can see the formation of at least 6 parties: the extreme progressives, the extreme social conservatives, libertarians, middle of the road repub & dem & a moderate party that would include the social liberals/fiscal conservatives.

Mac-7
04-04-2016, 07:02 PM
I think that more people realize that 2 major parties do not reflect the priorities of all voters. After this election cycle we may see the creation of more parties. I can see the formation of at least 6 parties: the extreme progressives, the extreme social conservatives, libertarians, middle of the road repub & dem & a moderate party that would include the social liberals/fiscal conservatives.

Many factions on the left but they all share the same basic goal of growing government so it can provide more government handouts.

Those who want smaller government will as always remain disorganized.

Green Arrow
04-04-2016, 07:27 PM
Libertarians have never come close to 15%. In their heyday with Ed Clark I think they managed around 5%. NEVER APPROACHED THAT SINCE.

That's nice. We're not talking about what they have done, we're talking about what they are doing.

michiganFats
04-04-2016, 08:59 PM
That's nice. We're not talking about what they have done, we're talking about what they are doing.

What are they doing?

Green Arrow
04-04-2016, 09:48 PM
What are they doing?

Currently polling at 10-11%.

domer76
04-04-2016, 09:53 PM
Currently polling at 10-11%.

Polling is actually DOING something?

lol

Green Arrow
04-04-2016, 10:14 PM
Polling is actually DOING something?

lol

It's indicative of their efforts over the past several decades. In just one presidential election cycle, their candidate has gone from 1% to 10%. That's a pretty big jump for one cycle.

onecut
04-04-2016, 10:30 PM
If they can net 15% in the polls, they'll get to debate with Clinton and Trump in the general. That may help boost their already boosted standing.

Regardless, unless the establishment somehow finds a way to course-correct, we may be preparing to enter a new party system. Experts are still debating whether or not we're still in the Fifth Party System or in the Sixth, but either way, a new system seems inevitable. And it's long overdue - if this is still the Fifth Party System, it's the longest running party system in our history.

It seems to me that it is just a question of whether the Republicans will implode before or after the election.

Mini Me
04-04-2016, 10:39 PM
Because most people don't follow politics; yet we see a strong surge toward the anti-Establishment candidates (Sanders and Trump). The ship is turning slowly.

The ship of state is listing badly hung up on the rocks! The crew has mutinied, and the captains have abandoned ship, and taken the only lifeboats. Passengers are being thrown overboard to the sharks!

https://youtu.be/Q6BzNEZxbiw

michiganFats
04-05-2016, 07:49 AM
Currently polling at 10-11%.

The Libertarians are or Gary Johnson is? I haven't seen any polling on Peterson.

Green Arrow
04-05-2016, 09:06 AM
The Libertarians are or Gary Johnson is? I haven't seen any polling on Peterson.

Johnson is, if I recall correctly.

suds00
04-05-2016, 09:57 AM
if the current candidates offered by the 2 main parties don't make us consider another way,i don't know what will.

onecut
04-05-2016, 02:01 PM
That's nice. We're not talking about what they have done, we're talking about what they are doing.


I must admit to an error. In the 1980 race Clark recieved less than 2% of the vote for president. He recieved 5% in his race for California governor. Gary Johnson recieved less than 2% also.

Libertarians do much better when their politcal phiosophy remains a mystery. I spent a good deal of time on the Clark campaign while listening to the platitudes about "freedom" and constitutional stances.

A bit later, when I learned how this was all supposed to work, or not to work I was appalled at my ignorance. There is a reason why such a society has never come about. When people "get it" they generally become disallusioned with the core beliefs of the Libertarians.

Tahuyaman
04-05-2016, 02:31 PM
How Donald Trump & Hillary Clinton Have Made the Libertarian Party Relevant (http://reason.com/blog/2016/04/01/libertarian-party-2016-presidential)

It would be nice if a 3rd party could get some tracking this cycle.

Yes, it would be nice if a Libertarian candidate could gain some traction. All they have done the past few election cycles is sit in the background crying about how no one listens to them or takes them seriously.

onecut
04-05-2016, 02:34 PM
Yes, it would be nice if a Libertarian candidate could gain some traction. All they have done the past few election cycles is sit in the background crying about how no one listens to them or takes them seriously.


With good reason.

Tahuyaman
04-05-2016, 02:38 PM
The thing that limits the libertarian cause is the Libertarian candidate.

Cthulhu
04-08-2016, 12:24 PM
The Libertarian system and the Libertarian Party are not now and never have been relevant
Fear is the path of the dark side.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.