Do you think voters should have to show ID?

[Adelaide]

Yes or no - provide a reason if you wish.

I've said elsewhere that I fully support it so long as there is a form of identification that is no or low cost and accessible to everyone. To use an example, a driver's license isn't accessible to everyone because some people don't drive, never have, wouldn't or couldn't pass a test, so forth. Passports are also not as accessible because they tend to cost too much money for some people who will never use them since they also can't afford vacations.

[michiganFats]

No but I assumed you meant at the polls. Yes when registering.

[Cigar]

Just like we issue Social Security ID's ... why shouldn't Voting ID's?

Allow EVERYONE the Time and Access ... and Nationalize ALL National Voting Rules.

Problem Solved.

[Quicksilver]

I said no. If you are on the voter roster.. ie.. registered.. you shouldn't have to. When I voted.. my state says it requires a drivers license to vote.. but when I went up and signed in, I asked if they needed to see my ID and they said no. Because I am listed on the roster.. He asked what ballot I wanted and off I went to the voting machine.. I would have no problem showing my DL.. but there are people that simply do not have a required form of ID.. people that have been voting for years. We should make it easier for people to vote.. not harder.

[Adelaide]

Just like we issue Social Security ID's ... why shouldn't Voting ID's?

That's an interesting idea that actually makes sense. Only problem I see is that if you're requiring photo ID, those voting IDs would need to be replaced at least every 5-10 years. If it's at no cost to voters, then I think it would work. Or if it is at a low cost, like $10, or if a sliding scale is used based on income... potential there.

[Quicksilver]

Just like we issue Social Security ID's ... why shouldn't Voting ID's?

Allow EVERYONE the Time and Access ... and Nationalize ALL National Voting Rules.

Problem Solved.


I agree... that would be a solution.. when people apply for their SS card or when the elderly sign up for medicare or SS.. they should get a national ID that is good for voting in ALL states..

[PolWatch]

I voted no....You are required to show ID when you register to vote and your name is placed on the voter's list. That is enough. Most problems result from illegal voter registration and is not affected by checking ID's at the polls. The new flurry of voter ID laws is nothing but another attempt at reducing voter turnout. I think the same concern we see regarding the 2nd Amendment should be accorded the right to vote.

[Cigar]

That's an interesting idea that actually makes sense. Only problem I see is that if you're requiring photo ID, those voting IDs would need to be replaced at least every 5-10 years. If it's at no cost to voters, then I think it would work. Or if it is at a low cost, like $10, or if a sliding scale is used based on income... potential there.


The Cost of Democracy ...

In Sports, EVERYONE plays by the same Rules.

The ONLY reason to have State by State Rules, is to Rig The Game.

If the Rules are Equal for EVERYONE, then Candidates have nothing to fear if their message is what the people really like.

[Cigar]

I voted no....You are required to show ID when you register to vote and your name is placed on the voter's list. That is enough. Most problems result from illegal voter registration and is not affected by checking ID's at the polls. The new flurry of voter ID laws is nothing but another attempt at reducing voter turnout. I think the same concern we see regarding the 2nd Amendment should be accorded the right to vote.


EVERYONE knows the FACTS ...

Republicans have the advantage of Low Voter Turn-Out, and Off Year Elections.

We've known that FACT since 1988

The more people who Vote, the less likely a Republican will Win.

... and that's a direct correlation to the change in America's Demographics.

Far Less American's agree with the GOP Message ... the Facts prove that.

[Quicksilver]

What is the solution for college students who are away at school for an election. Why aren't their college IDs good enough to let them vote?

[Chris]

Just like we issue Social Security ID's ... why shouldn't Voting ID's?

Allow EVERYONE the Time and Access ... and Nationalize ALL National Voting Rules.

Problem Solved.


Or driver's license or ID card or whatever.

[Standing Wolf]

I voted no....You are required to show ID when you register to vote and your name is placed on the voter's list.

So - and I understand that this is not a big problem...I'm mostly just playing Devil's Advocate - if I know that your name is on the voter rolls, what is to stop me from coming in, claiming to be you, and voting in your place?

[Subdermal]

EVERYONE knows the FACTS ...

Republicans have the advantage of Low Voter Turn-Out, and Off Year Elections.

We've known that FACT since 1988

The more people who Vote, the less likely a Republican will Win.

... and that's a direct correlation to the change in America's Demographics.

Far Less American's agree with the GOP Message ... the Facts prove that.

Ignorance outnumbers intelligence.

Known fact.

[Mark III]

When people register to vote they sign a piece of paper. Those signatures are kept on file in the county clerk's office and then given to the applicable polling place based on the voter's address. When the person comes in to vote they sign a slip and the signature is matched to the signature on file. Case closed. Problem solved.

Some places do this already.

[bajisima]

I used to not think it was necessary until my mom went in to vote and the clerk told her she had already voted. She assured them she hadn't but they had her checked off. There was no way to know who had gone in and given her name. Four more senior citizens had the same issue and foul play was suspected but could never be proven. Here where I live, the state now goes into high schools and gives out free IDs to students turning 18 so they have ID for whatever purpose. They also go into retirement homes and such to offer the same service. We now have Voter ID but with record turnout it seems planning helped a lot.

[MisterVeritis]

EVERYONE knows the FACTS ...

... and that's a direct correlation to the change in America's Demographics.

Far Less American's agree with the GOP Message ... the Facts prove that.
The Democrats have brought in millions of the dumbest, sickest people who are accustomed to living under corrupt, authoritarian regimes. They make good democrats for the first two or three generations.

[MisterVeritis]

What is the solution for college students who are away at school for an election. Why aren't their college IDs good enough to let them vote?
If the college IDs meet the national standard they can be used. But, of course, they don't.

[bajisima]

If the college IDs meet the national standard they can be used. But, of course, they don't.

Problem with college IDs is every state has a different definition of what constitutes a "domicile." Example, is my son goes to college in Massachusetts and they describe a domicile as a place lived in at least 6 months a year. But he only lived in a dorm half the year so they denied him the right to vote there. Its a complicated mess in some states as dorms aren't legal residences but apartments are. Confusing system.

[texan]

How can ANYONE say no? Seriously, in today's world you are not allowed to not have id on your person. But for some reason you cannot present it to vote?

[Crepitus]

No. You already proved your identity when you registered.

[texan]

EVERYONE knows the FACTS ...

Republicans have the advantage of Low Voter Turn-Out, and Off Year Elections.

We've known that FACT since 1988

The more people who Vote, the less likely a Republican will Win.

... and that's a direct correlation to the change in America's Demographics.

Far Less American's agree with the GOP Message ... the Facts prove that.

76% of all facts are made up.

http://www.businessinsider.com/736-of-all-statistics-are-made-up-2010-2

[Subdermal]

No. You already proved your identity when you registered.

Ah.

So I don't have to furnish my driver's license to a cop when I'm pulled over while driving, because I already established who I am when I passed my driver's test?

[MisterVeritis]

Problem with college IDs is every state has a different definition of what constitutes a "domicile." Example, is my son goes to college in Massachusetts and they describe a domicile as a place lived in at least 6 months a year. But he only lived in a dorm half the year so they denied him the right to vote there. Its a complicated mess in some states as dorms aren't legal residences but apartments are. Confusing system.
For state elections use the state's rules.

[Tahuyaman]

Absolutely. One should be required to prove that they are who they claim they are when voting. The election process is important enough to protect it from fraud and abuse.

[Tahuyaman]

No but I assumed you meant at the polls. Yes when registering.

Don't you bebelieve it's important to ensure that the registered person is the one actually voting?

[michiganFats]

Don't you bebelieve it's important to ensure that the registered person is the one actually voting?

If I have to show ID then fine, it's no big deal to me but I haven't seen any evidence of identity theft being a problem in our elections. I'm far more concerned about electronic voting machines and their "accuracy". Throw absentee ballots in there too, we're handing out too many.

[nic34]

No but I assumed you meant at the polls. Yes when registering.


Yes, once is enough.

[nic34]

If I have to show ID then fine, it's no big deal to me but I haven't seen any evidence of identity theft being a problem in our elections. I'm far more concerned about electronic voting machines and their "accuracy". Throw absentee ballots in there too, we're handing out too many.

The only problem we have with voting is "election" fraud and voter suppression.

Been going on since the beginning.

[nic34]

76% of all facts are made up.

http://www.businessinsider.com/736-of-all-statistics-are-made-up-2010-2

Is this made up mac?


https://youtu.be/8GBAsFwPglw

[Tahuyaman]

If I have to show ID then fine, it's no big deal to me but I haven't seen any evidence of identity theft being a problem in our elections. I'm far more concerned about electronic voting machines and their "accuracy". Throw absentee ballots in there too, we're handing out too many.

I'm you on the absentee ballots or voting by mail, but I'm not in the camp of the consiracy theorists on the machines.

I just cant can't understand why so many people, primarily on the left are so opposed to ensuring that we maintain the integrity of the system by which we elect put nation's leaders.

[Quicksilver]

The only problem we have with voting is "election" fraud and voter suppression.

Been going on since the beginning.

And lets distinguish "Election" fraud from "Voter Identity" fraud. Election fraud is perpetrated by a party or it's operatives to rig machines or vote counts. THAT unfortunately does exist. Voter fraud doesn't.

[Doublejack]

If voter fraud ever became a problem then yes.

[Adelaide]

I read somewhere that in the 2008 US election there were only like 80 cases of voter fraud relating to not being who someone said they were. It's an incredibly low number in the grand scheme of things but it seems like basic common sense to me - where I am from, you have to provide proof of ID by photo and mailing address. For some people, like me, that means I showed up with my passport and a piece of mail with my address on it. Then I got the provincial ID card that had both on the card, and it was pretty cheap (cheaper than a passport, for sure, but I actually use my passport frequently).

[Tahuyaman]

I read somewhere that in the 2008 US election there were only like 80 cases of voter fraud relating to not being who someone said they were.

That's assuming all cases of fraud are discovered.

[Crepitus]

Ah.

So I don't have to furnish my driver's license to a cop when I'm pulled over while driving, because I already established who I am when I passed my driver's test?
http://thepoliticalforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14481&stc=1

[nic34]

I'm you on the absentee ballots or voting by mail, but I'm not in the camp of the consiracy theorists on the machines.

I just cant can't understand why so many people, primarily on the left are so opposed to ensuring that we maintain the integrity of the system by which we elect put nation's leaders.

Are you as adamant in ensuring that we maintain the integrity of the ability of all citizens to vote?

[Archer0915]

You NEED id to get a job, cash a check, pay some bills, get bennies, lots of other stuff.

Here we are talking about something that impacts all of us so yes, ID! To register and to vote! Why? May stop dead people that registered from voting.

[Subdermal]

<snip>

Seems like a fitting analogy to me.

Of course - to liberals - a fitting analogy is only one with which they agree.

Tell me, Crepitus, how my comparison is not apt?

You asserted that merely registering to vote is enough. Oh? How do we discern an unregistered voter from a registered one?

Derp.

It's painful how much excruciating detail is necessary in an argument to get mentally challenged liberals to shut the fock up, or get them to realize the ridiculousness of their claims.

[Standing Wolf]

When people register to vote they sign a piece of paper. Those signatures are kept on file in the county clerk's office and then given to the applicable polling place based on the voter's address. When the person comes in to vote they sign a slip and the signature is matched to the signature on file. Case closed. Problem solved.

Some places do this already.

I don't recall ever seeing anyone at the table where they keep those lists checking signatures. Even if they did, quite frankly, it has been my experience that the average poll worker is in her seventies or older and not the swiftest boat in the water. I very much doubt that a poll worker would be able to spot a forged signature, even under the best of conditions. Not exactly "case closed".

[Cletus]

So - and I understand that this is not a big problem...I'm mostly just playing Devil's Advocate - if I know that your name is on the voter rolls, what is to stop me from coming in, claiming to be you, and voting in your place?

Obvious question... one I am sure the anti-ID crowd would prefer not be asked.

You beat me to it.

[Standing Wolf]

How can ANYONE say no? Seriously, in today's world you are not allowed to not have id on your person. But for some reason you cannot present it to vote?

Under most circumstances, you are not required to have ID on your person...however, if you are stopped and questioned for any reason, you may be required to identify yourself to the satisfaction of the authorities, and not having an ID will obviously make that more difficult. It might make the difference between being questioned and released, and being taken in. In other words, not having an ID is not an offense - but it may be an impediment for you.

[Standing Wolf]

I'm far more concerned about electronic voting machines and their "accuracy".

Accuracy, security, hackability...yes. I seem to recall reading an article by RFK, Jr. in Rolling Stone several years ago that was revealing and scary.

[Tahuyaman]

Are you as adamant in ensuring that we maintain the integrity of the ability of all citizens to vote?

What is it about my position that confuses you? All voters must prove that they actually are who they claim they are.

[HoneyBadger]

I read somewhere that in the 2008 US election there were only like 80 cases of voter fraud relating to not being who someone said they were. It's an incredibly low number in the grand scheme of things

That's 80 legitimate voters who had their vote canceled out by someone who could not legally vote. That is a big damned deal. Even one case of voter fraud should never be tolerated.

[Standing Wolf]

I read somewhere that in the 2008 US election there were only like 80 cases of voter fraud relating to not being who someone said they were.

Most cases of "voter fraud", when you dig into it, are not really voter fraud, as such, at all, but people attempting to register under false names, often as a joke - that sort of thing - who never actually got anywhere near a polling place. Much was made by the Right, several years ago, about how some folks had attempted to register to vote through the (dreaded) ACORN organization, with names like "Mickey Mouse", and they claimed that ACORN was complicit in this effort at "fraud". What they failed to mention is that those fraudulent registration attempts were reported to the authorities by ACORN workers, and that the only reason they were initially accepted by the workers to begin with is that they were required by law to do so.

[nathanbforrest45]

No of course not. Voting for the leader of the free world is not nearly as important and cashing a check or buying a beer in Tennessee.

[Quicksilver]

That's assuming all cases of fraud are discovered.

Yes... I'm sure there were MILLIONS and MILLIONS that weren't:rollseyes:

[MisterVeritis]

Yes... I'm sure there were MILLIONS and MILLIONS that weren't:rollseyes:
It does not take millions. It takes just a few to steal an election. It won't be much longer before election stealing will require something more sophisticated.

[nic34]

Most cases of "voter fraud", when you dig into it, are not really voter fraud, as such, at all, but people attempting to register under false names, often as a joke - that sort of thing - who never actually got anywhere near a polling place. Much was made by the Right, several years ago, about how some folks had attempted to register to vote through the (dreaded) ACORN organization, with names like "Mickey Mouse", and they claimed that ACORN was complicit in this effort at "fraud". What they failed to mention is that those fraudulent registration attempts were reported to the authorities by ACORN workers, and that the only reason they were initially accepted by the workers to begin with is that they were required by law to do so.

So I'm guessing Mickey Mouse didn't show up demanding a ballot?

[Tahuyaman]

Yes... I'm sure there were MILLIONS and MILLIONS that weren't:rollseyes:

I'm sure there were more than 80. That's not even the amount we usually get out of Chicago alone.

[Cigar]

I'm sure there were more than 80. That's not even the amount we usually get out of Chicago alone.


It's Wednesday..Where's our new Black People & Chicago Thread?? (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/60988-It-s-Wednesday-Where-s-our-new-Black-People-amp-Chicago-Thread)

[nathanbforrest45]

http://thepoliticalforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14481&stc=1


Explain the difference please.

[Standing Wolf]

So I'm guessing Mickey Mouse didn't show up demanding a ballot?

No, he did, but then he ate it.

[Standing Wolf]

Explain the difference please.

:tumbleweed:

[kilgram]

Yes, they should. And not a mere id, a full id with photo and some kind of official id.

It is stupid that they don't prove when they are voting that they are who are saying that they are. It would make very easy to make fraud. For example, voting more than once.

However, knowing USA, it has its counterpart. It could prevent to vote to poor people who does not have any id (like driving license, library id,...)

[Peter1469]

I say yes with a caveat. If someone doesn't have acceptable ID let them vote, but hold the ballot and give them time to come back with valid ID / proof of residency in that voting district. That is what they do in Virginia.

[Peter1469]

This site tracks voting and voter fraud issue globally. Link. (http://blackboxvoting.org)

There is a lot worse stuff going on in the US than individuals voting under a different identity. Like entire piles of ballots going missing.

[PolWatch]

This site tracks voting and voter fraud issue globally. Link. (http://blackboxvoting.org)

There is a lot worse stuff going on in the US than individuals voting under a different identity. Like entire piles of ballots going missing.

Most of the voter fraud is not something that will be solved with ID cards....like this:

'During yesterday’s testimony at the Arizona state capitol in Phoenix, Secretary of State Michele Reagan was asked what her office was doing to investigate the claims that registration for thousands of voters had been changed from Democrat or Republican to independent. As US Uncut previously reported (http://usuncut.com/politics/5-examples-voter-suppression-arizona-primary/), thousands of voters were given provisional ballots, which aren’t actually counted, due to their party registration mysteriously showing up in the system as “independent” or “no party declared.”

http://usuncut.com/politics/arizona-election-fraud-primary/

[Peter1469]

Most of the voter fraud is not something that will be solved with ID cards....like this:

'During yesterday’s testimony at the Arizona state capitol in Phoenix, Secretary of State Michele Reagan was asked what her office was doing to investigate the claims that registration for thousands of voters had been changed from Democrat or Republican to independent. As US Uncut previously reported (http://usuncut.com/politics/5-examples-voter-suppression-arizona-primary/), thousands of voters were given provisional ballots, which aren’t actually counted, due to their party registration mysteriously showing up in the system as “independent” or “no party declared.”

http://usuncut.com/politics/arizona-election-fraud-primary/

I agree. But it is silly to not have IDs to vote.

[Dr. Who]

When people register to vote they sign a piece of paper. Those signatures are kept on file in the county clerk's office and then given to the applicable polling place based on the voter's address. When the person comes in to vote they sign a slip and the signature is matched to the signature on file. Case closed. Problem solved.

Some places do this already.
Do you really think that all of those signatures are checked? Your signature in 1965 might be a bit different in 2016 with arthritis.

[Dr. Who]

I think that we are headed to the point where all citizens will have to be microchipped. I'm serious. Forget photo ID. They will microchip you at birth. If you are older, just show up at the appointed government office and have your microchip installed. No microchip - you won't exist, can't work, can't do anything that requires ID. A microchip would be good for life unless it somehow fails. Aging wouldn't matter. Your microchip will link you to a database that will contain every piece of relevant financial and personal information that any government would ever need to identify you.

[Peter1469]

Cut it out. Move to the wilderness.

[Green Arrow]

I am undecided.

[Crepitus]

Explain the difference please.
Apples are most often red, with firm crunchy flesh where as oranges as the name should suggest to you are orange with pulpy flesh. Oranges also tend to be more expensive but keep longer and can prevent scurvy.

[Safety]

Apples are most often red, with firm crunchy flesh where as oranges as the name should suggest to you are orange with pulpy flesh. Oranges also tend to be more expensive but keep longer and can prevent scurvy.

Well f'n played, sir.

[Subdermal]

It was his only play.

[Tahuyaman]

Yes, once is enough.

so, if Joe Smith registers, it's no big deal if Pete Johnson votes in his place?

[Tahuyaman]

Apples are most often red, with firm crunchy flesh where as oranges as the name should suggest to you are orange with pulpy flesh. Oranges also tend to be more expensive but keep longer and can prevent scurvy.

Often times apples become soft and rotten. Sone apples are green too. Some are even yellow.

[bajisima]

I also want to add that it bothers me that some are against voter ID not just for the purpose of voting but for IDs in general. Poor people without IDs cant even apply for jobs at Walmart without an ID since they use the e-Verify system. Read where all US businesses will be using them in the next 5 years. Without helping and encouraging everyone to get an ID, we are doing a great injustice to those who will eventually need one to gain employment or go to college. If it isn't currently, it will be a necessity of life in the next 5 years or so.

[Peter1469]

I also want to add that it bothers me that some are against voter ID not just for the purpose of voting but for IDs in general. Poor people without IDs cant even apply for jobs at Walmart without an ID since they use the e-Verify system. Read where all US businesses will be using them in the next 5 years. Without helping and encouraging everyone to get an ID, we are doing a great injustice to those who will eventually need one to gain employment or go to college. If it isn't currently, it will be a necessity of life in the next 5 years or so.

Why do we manufacture crises (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/crisis)? This is nothing but liberal hand wringing. It is not a real issue.

[Cigar]

Why do we manufacture crises (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/crisis)? This is nothing but liberal hand wringing. It is not a real issue.


Why not just have a National ID, like we all have a SS Number?

I don't have to update my SS Number every 4 years, all we really need is current addresses.

[Peter1469]

Why not just have a National ID, like we all have a SS Number?

I don't have to update my SS Number every 4 years, all we really need is current addresses.

Fine with me. We sort of do- the federal government gave the states guidelines to follow to basically make their divers licenses national IDs. A few states said no. And people using those IDs can't fly. :shocked:

[Cigar]

Fine with me. We sort of do- the federal government gave the states guidelines to follow to basically make their divers licenses national IDs. A few states said no. And people using those IDs can't fly. :shocked:


This country should be add poling places, not reducing them.

[Peter1469]

This country should be add poling places, not reducing them.

I am fine with that. I can walk to mine.