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View Full Version : Warning: Cruz says abortion by rape victim is wrong.



AZ Jim
04-09-2016, 12:35 PM
He actually says if a woman is raped, it is a horrible crime, but she should not be allowed to abort the rapist's fetus. Incredible. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/04/05/ted-cruz-tells-megyn-kelly-he-would-force-rape-victims-to-carry-rapists-baby-video/

Captain Obvious
04-09-2016, 12:47 PM
Murder is murder.

Peter1469
04-09-2016, 12:49 PM
If death is not by natural causes, it is a homicide. Some homicides are legally justified. Others are not.

AZ Jim
04-09-2016, 12:52 PM
Listen to the rightwing justification for Cruz's rant against the rights of woman victim. No wonder they are losing in November. Wonder how he'd feel it that victim was his wife or daughter?

Peter1469
04-09-2016, 12:54 PM
Listen to the rightwing justification for Cruz's rant against the rights of woman victim. No wonder they are losing in November. Wonder how he'd feel it that victim was his wife or daughter?

I didn't justify anything. I gave options.

Captain Obvious
04-09-2016, 12:55 PM
Hey, life is dirt cheap anyway.

Grind them up for sausage and if they make it out of the vagina shuffle them off to war and an early death.

Why not? We'll just make more of them.

People are less than animals.

TrueBlue
04-09-2016, 01:17 PM
He actually says if a woman is raped, it is a horrible crime, but she should not be allowed to abort the rapist's fetus. Incredible. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/04/05/ted-cruz-tells-megyn-kelly-he-would-force-rape-victims-to-carry-rapists-baby-video/
Well then tell every woman who is raped to have the baby....but to consider taking it to Cruz's doorstep for HIM to take care of! How about that? I'm sure that is an offer he just couldn't refuse especially with his being morally obligated to care for the children brought to him under such circumstances.

Chris
04-09-2016, 01:17 PM
I'm pro-life, but still I have trouble with this, cases of unwanted, no, forced pregnancy.

TrueBlue
04-09-2016, 01:23 PM
I'm pro-life, but still I have trouble with this, cases of unwanted, no, forced pregnancy.
I'm Pro-Life too but isn't it quite obvious that those declaring that the baby should be born even after a rape should be the very ones to take care of the baby if the mother does not want it? And that would, of course, include the Pope.

Peter1469
04-09-2016, 01:25 PM
I suspect that most would abort in that circumstance. However, they do so while avoiding what they are doing: succumbing to a primordial desire for revenge against the rapist. Murder of what Hillary calls (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/3/hillary-clinton-unborn-person-has-no-constitutiona/?page=all)an unborn person. http://barbwire.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/hillary-unborn-person-bw.jpgn.

Peter1469
04-09-2016, 01:26 PM
I'm Pro-Life too but isn't it quite obvious that those declaring that the baby should be born even after a rape should be the very ones to take care of the baby if the mother does not want it? And that would, of course, include the Pope.

Can we abort 5 year olds that we no longer want?

hanger4
04-09-2016, 01:26 PM
Listen to the rightwing justification for Cruz's rant against the rights of woman victim. No wonder they are losing in November. Wonder how he'd feel it that victim was his wife or daughter?

Why should the conceived life be punished ??

hanger4
04-09-2016, 01:29 PM
Well then tell every woman who is raped to have the baby....but to consider taking it to Cruz's doorstep for HIM to take care of! How about that? I'm sure that is an offer he just couldn't refuse especially with his being morally obligated to care for the children brought to him under such circumstances.


Naaaah, lets just use your reasoning and kill anything unwanted.

AZ Jim
04-09-2016, 01:33 PM
Why should the conceived life be punished ??Why should the woman, already a victim, be forced to spend 9 months of her life reminded every day of the crime that so ravished her? Men have no business making these decisions about women's health issues. If you don't have a vagina, STFU about her plight. The mental issue is also important to consider.

hanger4
04-09-2016, 01:35 PM
Why should the woman, already a victim, be forced to spend 9 months of her life reminded every day of the crime that so ravished her? Men have no business making these decisions about women's health issues. If you don't have a vagina, STFU about her plight.

Like I said kill all the unwanted.

AZ Jim
04-09-2016, 01:36 PM
Like I said kill all the unwanted.Are you trying to act like an asshole? If so, you are convincing.

Chris
04-09-2016, 01:39 PM
Why should the conceived life be punished ??

See, that's where I'm conflicted. The woman shouldn't be punished for the rape but then neither should the unborn.

AZ Jim
04-09-2016, 01:43 PM
I've said it before and I repeat, I want to see how you feel when the rape victim is your mother, wife or daughter. You can say all you want about that faceless victim, but once that face becomes one of your own lets see you attitude change....

hanger4
04-09-2016, 01:47 PM
Are you trying to act like an asshole? If so, you are convincing.

Yours and TrueBlues reasoning, not mine. If ya don't want it, kill it.

hanger4
04-09-2016, 01:50 PM
I've said it before and I repeat, I want to see how you feel when the rape victim is your mother, wife or daughter. You can say all you want about that faceless victim, but once that face becomes one of your own lets see you attitude change....

There is another "faceless victim" which you ignore.

michiganFats
04-09-2016, 01:50 PM
Even if you're against abortion surely you would agree that a woman has the right to decide who she'll procreate with? If you don't then natural selection doesn't matter?

Quicksilver
04-09-2016, 01:58 PM
It seems to me that most women who report a rape and get medical attention will also have access to "Plan B" or the "morning after" pill.. Solves the problem.. no? No one knows if a conception occurred... but there won't be a baby.. Or are the all knowing men here against that also..??

TrueBlue
04-09-2016, 02:02 PM
It seems to me that most women who report a rape and get medical attention will also have access to "Plan B" or the "morning after" pill.. Solves the problem.. no? No one knows if a conception occurred... but there won't be a baby.. Or are the all knowing men here against that also..??
The most simple way yet to prevent such headaches is simply for the woman to keep her legs closed!

donttread
04-09-2016, 02:03 PM
He actually says if a woman is raped, it is a horrible crime, but she should not be allowed to abort the rapist's fetus. Incredible. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/04/05/ted-cruz-tells-megyn-kelly-he-would-force-rape-victims-to-carry-rapists-baby-video/


Not that hard to figure out without the "punishing women for being raped" sensationalism. I am not personally against abortion.
However the vast majority of people who oppose abortion do so because they believe the fetus is alive , has a soul and is subject to our protection. From that point of reference how the fetus was conceived is mute.

AZ Jim
04-09-2016, 02:05 PM
The most simple way yet to prevent such headaches is simply for the woman to keep her legs closed!Jesus! I cannot believe you said that. How does a woman "keep her legs together" when they are violently pulled apart often after a severe beating. I hope you examine your post and delete it.

Quicksilver
04-09-2016, 02:08 PM
The most simple way yet to prevent such headaches is simply for the woman to keep her legs closed!

While being raped... ??

TrueBlue
04-09-2016, 02:15 PM
Jesus! I cannot believe you said that. How does a woman "keep her legs together" when they are violently pulled apart often after a severe beating. I hope you examine your post and delete it.
She can still use her knees to kick her attacker who is violating her in a place he'll never forget as well as her hands and fingers! And that actually exemplifies the need for All Women and even men to carry MaceŽ or something else that is legal in order to protect themselves against such crimes.

AZ Jim
04-09-2016, 02:17 PM
She can still use her knees to kick her attacker who is violating her in a place he'll never forget as well as her hands and fingers! And that actually exemplifies the need for All Women and even men to carry MaceŽ or something else that is legal in order to protect themselves against such crimes.Ok, I get your position. I have lost all respect for you. I know you probably don't care but you just left my friends list.

TrueBlue
04-09-2016, 02:18 PM
While being raped... ??
It's not always rape you know. Most times they do it just for the sheer pleasure of it. That's when they really need to keep their legs closed or face the music afterward of an unwanted baby.

TrueBlue
04-09-2016, 02:20 PM
Ok, I get your position. I have lost all respect for you.
And the feeling is quite mutual since you're obviously making the statement that women are inherently weak and can't defend themselves against a man which is BS because they can and many have proven it even during a rape or an attempt.

AZ Jim
04-09-2016, 02:21 PM
It's not always rape you know. Most times they do it just for the sheer pleasure of it. That's when they really need to keep their legs closed or face the music afterward of an unwanted baby.
"Most times"?.....You sound like a fuckin republican.

AZ Jim
04-09-2016, 02:29 PM
TRUEBLUE takes the position that a woman can fend off a rapist. I would remind him of all the little women found dead with defensive wounds that most DO fight back, but in a somewhat typical case how does a 112 lb woman beat off a 150 lb man intent on raping her. She can fight all she want's but once he loses his temper about it she may not just be raped but killed too. Happens every day.

Common Sense
04-09-2016, 02:29 PM
Cruz is a lunatic.

Quicksilver
04-09-2016, 03:15 PM
And the feeling is quite mutual since you're obviously making the statement that women are inherently weak and can't defend themselves against a man which is BS because they can and many have proven it even during a rape or an attempt.




Are you saying that there is no such thing as legitimate rape? That perhaps the victims really enjoy it, and that if they end up pregnant.. after "allowing" it to happen.. then they really were not raped, but having consensual sex? I know.. you are really a Republican law maker.. right?

del
04-09-2016, 04:17 PM
Murder is murder.

and abortion isn't murder

Peter1469
04-09-2016, 04:19 PM
I've said it before and I repeat, I want to see how you feel when the rape victim is your mother, wife or daughter. You can say all you want about that faceless victim, but once that face becomes one of your own lets see you attitude change....

I would murder the little baby too. Just admit what you are doing. :wink:

Common Sense
04-09-2016, 04:20 PM
I would murder the little baby too. Just admit what you are doing. :wink:

So you're saying the supreme court allows murder? M'kay...

Peter1469
04-09-2016, 04:20 PM
She can still use her knees to kick her attacker who is violating her in a place he'll never forget as well as her hands and fingers! And that actually exemplifies the need for All Women and even men to carry MaceŽ or something else that is legal in order to protect themselves against such crimes.

Carry conceal helps as well. :smiley:

Peter1469
04-09-2016, 04:21 PM
So you're saying the supreme court allows murder? M'kay...


What causes you to ask such an odd question?

Subdermal
04-09-2016, 04:22 PM
He actually says if a woman is raped, it is a horrible crime, but she should not be allowed to abort the rapist's fetus. Incredible. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/04/05/ted-cruz-tells-megyn-kelly-he-would-force-rape-victims-to-carry-rapists-baby-video/

The position is understandable. Choose to disagree, but there's nothing intellectually indefensible about the position.

That scenario is one of the reasons my position on abortion has moved over the years. I realized that my religious beliefs allowed leeway: the Bible references that "life begins when the blood moves", which I take to mean 17-20 days after conception, when the fetus actually begins to pump its own blood.

If there is a rape, then, there is no reason to not immediately administer an abortifacient, to prevent the stage where I believe one becomes an individual. There is plenty of time in fact.

Common Sense
04-09-2016, 04:24 PM
What causes you to ask such an odd question?

You're claiming abortion is murder. Therefore the supreme court is complicit...in your mind at least.

Subdermal
04-09-2016, 04:25 PM
Cruz is a lunatic.

Stupid claim, as it can be equally thrown at you.

Peter1469
04-09-2016, 04:26 PM
http://media.comicbook.com/2016/03/negan-bat-176562.jpg

Common Sense
04-09-2016, 04:30 PM
Stupid claim, as it can be equally thrown at you.

Oh, OK...

Quicksilver
04-09-2016, 04:40 PM
and abortion isn't murder


No it isn't.... An embryo or a fetus has never been granted personhood by law.. But even if it were... why would someone give a rat's ass what someone else does with their fetus? I like to stay out of other peoples' business...

Tahuyaman
04-09-2016, 04:46 PM
He actually says if a woman is raped, it is a horrible crime, but she should not be allowed to abort the rapist's fetus. Incredible. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/04/05/ted-cruz-tells-megyn-kelly-he-would-force-rape-victims-to-carry-rapists-baby-video/

It's called being consistent. The unborn baby is not guilty of anything because of the circumstances of his or her conception. Being pro life is just that, pro life, not pro life in certain situations.

Are you so closed minded that you need to be in total agreement with someone in order to even respect their view?

Peter1469
04-09-2016, 04:49 PM
That club is from the Walking Dead. And Season 6 ends with one of the main characters being bludgeoned to death.

Maybe it is Maggie's baby- I mean fetus. :shocked:

Crepitus
04-09-2016, 06:12 PM
Can we abort 5 year olds that we no longer want?are you sure you understand what an abortion is?

Peter1469
04-09-2016, 06:14 PM
are you sure you understand what an abortion is?
Oh sure. Taking human life. It isn't a rabbit.

Tahuyaman
04-09-2016, 06:54 PM
Cruz is a lunatic.


Liberals think being consistent is crazy.

Tahuyaman
04-09-2016, 06:58 PM
Can we abort 5 year olds that we no longer want?

actually, there is a far left fringe element which supports the idea that a parent should have the right to kill their child for up to two years after birth.

Peter1469
04-09-2016, 07:01 PM
actually, there is a far left fringe element which supports the idea that a parent should have the right to kill their child for up to two years after birth.

If you are inconvenienced you should have that right. If consistency matters. :wink:

Quicksilver
04-09-2016, 07:02 PM
actually, there is a far left fringe element which supports the idea that a parent should have the right to kill their child for up to two years after birth.


Oh good grief!!! You ARE a gullible fool....:geez:

Quicksilver
04-09-2016, 07:03 PM
If you are inconvenienced you should have that right. If consistency matters. :wink:

You too...:loco:

Tahuyaman
04-09-2016, 07:05 PM
If you are inconvenienced you should have that right. If consistency matters. :wink:

well, one can clearly see how liberals are repulsed by consistency.

Tahuyaman
04-09-2016, 07:06 PM
actually, there is a far left fringe element which supports the idea that a parent should have the right to kill their child for up to two years after birth.


Oh good grief!!! You ARE a gullible fool....:geez:

are you denying this fringe element exists?

OGIS
04-09-2016, 07:14 PM
Listen to the rightwing justification for Cruz's rant against the rights of woman victim. No wonder they are losing in November. Wonder how he'd feel it that victim was his wife or daughter?

We The People would never know about the abortion.

OGIS
04-09-2016, 07:49 PM
Why should the woman, already a victim, be forced to spend 9 months of her life reminded every day of the crime that so ravished her? Men have no business making these decisions about women's health issues. If you don't have a vagina, STFU about her plight. The mental issue is also important to consider.

Shush now. The additional mental and emotional trauma of having to carry your rapist's child to term are part of the burden of original sin and guilt that all women carry due to Eve tempting Adam with the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. It sort of goes with the territory of being a brood sow female.

OGIS
04-09-2016, 07:51 PM
Oh good grief!!! You ARE a gullible fool....:geez:

I notice he offered no citation.

OGIS
04-09-2016, 07:52 PM
are you denying this fringe element exists?

Yes. Identify them. Citation, PLEASE.

Or you can Ad Hom like you always do.

hanger4
04-09-2016, 07:54 PM
Shush now. The additional mental and emotional trauma of having to carry your rapist's child to term are part of the burden of original sin and guilt that all women carry due to Eve tempting Adam with the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. It sort of goes with the territory of being a brood sow female.

Like I said kill all the unwanted.

Quicksilver
04-09-2016, 08:06 PM
are you denying this fringe element exists?

Of course it doesn't exist... Where did you get the idea it did? That is NONSENSE

Tahuyaman
04-09-2016, 08:26 PM
Denying that extremists exist, does not mean that they don't.

Tahuyaman
04-09-2016, 08:39 PM
Check the positions of these two guys. Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva.

Tahuyaman
04-09-2016, 08:42 PM
It's amazing how people can deny the existence of extremists, when they find that extremism hits too close to home.

Tahuyaman
04-09-2016, 08:56 PM
Check the positions of these two guys. Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva.

At least these guys have developed strict criteria for killing children. They must be mentally handicapped or sonrething.

Then there's that intellectual icon of the left, Mellisa Harris Perry. She claims a newborn is not a real lerson until the newborn's parents "feel" that the child is a real live human being.

Mac-7
04-10-2016, 12:32 AM
He actually says if a woman is raped, it is a horrible crime, but she should not be allowed to abort the rapist's fetus. Incredible. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/04/05/ted-cruz-tells-megyn-kelly-he-would-force-rape-victims-to-carry-rapists-baby-video/

You and the liberal woman are sentencing an innocent human being to death.

Kill the rapist not the unborn child

michiganFats
04-10-2016, 12:37 AM
Cruz is unelectable. Nuff said.

Mac-7
04-10-2016, 01:39 AM
Cruz is unelectable. Nuff said.

I would vote for him.

Tahuyaman
04-10-2016, 07:37 AM
Cruz is unelectable. Nuff said.

He certainly is electable in this current election cycle considering who his competition will be.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 08:03 AM
Hillary will have to drop out after she is indicted. Minorities won't vote for Bernie. That means a record low turnout for democrats. Mondale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mondale)like.

Tahuyaman
04-10-2016, 08:20 AM
This is great. Hillary Clinton is losing ground to a guy who just a few months ago was looked at as a laughable far left wing kook. If she can't soundly defeat a guy who honeymooned in the Soviet Union, she's in trouble.

PolWatch
04-10-2016, 08:27 AM
This is great. Hillary Clinton is losing ground to a guy who just a few months ago was looked at as a laughable far left wing kook. If she can't soundly defeat a guy who honeymooned in the Soviet Union, she's in trouble.

I can't argue with your description of the dem candidates. However, I don't think the repubs are doing any better at picking someone to lead the nation. The reasonable candidates are either sitting in last place in the polls (Kasich) or dropped out due to lack of interest (Webb).

Cthulhu
04-10-2016, 08:35 AM
Why should the woman, already a victim, be forced to spend 9 months of her life reminded every day of the crime that so ravished her? Men have no business making these decisions about women's health issues. If you don't have a vagina, STFU about her plight. The mental issue is also important to consider.
Rubbish. If you are involving government, then you cannot exclude half of the voters - men.

The obvious solution is to remove government from the equation and let the conscience reign.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Cthulhu
04-10-2016, 08:37 AM
She can still use her knees to kick her attacker who is violating her in a place he'll never forget as well as her hands and fingers! And that actually exemplifies the need for All Women and even men to carry MaceŽ or something else that is legal in order to protect themselves against such crimes.
Guns are more effective.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Cthulhu
04-10-2016, 08:43 AM
I would murder the little baby too. Just admit what you are doing. :wink:
That's dark.

*fist bump* :cool:

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 09:10 AM
Why should the woman, already a victim, be forced to spend 9 months of her life reminded every day of the crime that so ravished her? Men have no business making these decisions about women's health issues. If you don't have a vagina, STFU about her plight. The mental issue is also important to consider.

Why should the unborn child have his or her life taken away from them before they even have a chance at a first breath?

Here's the difference between people like you and me, I value life. You don't, life is cheap to you. You're content to just play it like a political football throwing hack darts at political candidates, the root of the matter means nothing to you, you really are less than human.

I value life and on the hierarchy of priorities I value life over a woman's convenience.

Life trumps most things in my book.

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 09:12 AM
Why should the woman, already a victim, be forced to spend 9 months of her life reminded every day of the crime that so ravished her? Men have no business making these decisions about women's health issues. If you don't have a vagina, STFU about her plight. The mental issue is also important to consider.

As far as your hack vagina comment, take that, roll it up sideways and shove it up your ass.

I as a compassionate, thinking human have an obligation to speak up against the inhuman slaughter of millions and millions of innocent, unborn children.

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 09:14 AM
I've said it before and I repeat, I want to see how you feel when the rape victim is your mother, wife or daughter. You can say all you want about that faceless victim, but once that face becomes one of your own lets see you attitude change....

Sure, at the cost of someone else.

Tell you what, if it were possible, would you sacrifice your life or the lives of your loved ones to prevent a woman being raped and/or having to give birth?

You readily throw the innocent, unborn into the blender, be a man. Offer yours up also.

Fucking coward.

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 09:18 AM
Vicrim?

Is the OP Japanese?

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 09:33 AM
For the record, btw, I don't support making abortion illegal. I don't not support it either, I'm simply not advocating for a change in the law.

I'm just disgusted with idiots who have no sense of value for life and would rather make a rhetorically political pissing contest out of the deaths of millions.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 09:35 AM
For the record, btw, I don't support making abortion illegal. I don't not support it either, I'm simply not advocating for a change in the law.

I'm just disgusted with idiots who have no sense of value for life and would rather make a rhetorically political pissing contest out of the deaths of millions.


They need to admit what they are doing.

The fetus didn't die a natural death. That leaves homicide as the cause of death. Under our laws some homicides are justified, others are not.

That is the next SCOTUS result if Roe is revisited.

del
04-10-2016, 10:02 AM
Sure, at the cost of someone else.

Tell you what, if it were possible, would you sacrifice your life or the lives of your loved ones to prevent a woman being raped and/or having to give birth?

You readily throw the innocent, unborn into the blender, be a man. Offer yours up also.

Fucking coward.

says the man from behind his keyboard

:biglaugh:

go get 'em, tiger

Private Pickle
04-10-2016, 10:05 AM
For the record, btw, I don't support making abortion illegal. I don't not support it either, I'm simply not advocating for a change in the law.

I'm just disgusted with idiots who have no sense of value for life and would rather make a rhetorically political pissing contest out of the deaths of millions.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

Tahuyaman
04-10-2016, 10:19 AM
I can't argue with your description of the dem candidates. However, I don't think the repubs are doing any better at picking someone to lead the nation. The reasonable candidates are either sitting in last place in the polls (Kasich) or dropped out due to lack of interest (Webb).

I find it amusing that the liberals respond to the madness on the Democrats side by saying "but those rascally Republicans".... etc.

Tahuyaman
04-10-2016, 10:20 AM
They need to admit what they are doing.

The fetus didn't die a natural death. That leaves homicide as the cause of death. Under our laws some homicides are justified, others are not.

That is the next SCOTUS result if Roe is revisited.

Abortion should not be an issue for the federal government.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 10:24 AM
Hillary will have to drop out after she is indicted. Minorities won't vote for Bernie. That means a record low turnout for democrats. Mondale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mondale)like.

So you reject the con talking point that blacks are a captive voting block who will vote for a "D" regardless of who is it?

OGIS
04-10-2016, 10:26 AM
Abortion should not be an issue for the federal government.

So you are OK with a state if they decide to allow abortion?

Dr. Who
04-10-2016, 10:27 AM
She can still use her knees to kick her attacker who is violating her in a place he'll never forget as well as her hands and fingers! And that actually exemplifies the need for All Women and even men to carry MaceŽ or something else that is legal in order to protect themselves against such crimes.
Many women who are the victims of stranger rape are raped at knife or gunpoint. Even the police advise not to resist because being raped is still better than being dead. Unless you are physically capable of taking a man down and rendering him unable to use a weapon or pursue you, macing or kicking him in the family jewels may only slow him down a bit. Furthermore, most rapes are by people the victim knows and don't take place in some dark alley, but in places like house parties, frat houses and the like, often after the girl is inebriated or have had their drinks spiked.

"statistics have shown that 50% to 88% of rape victims know their perpetrators. It has been reported that as many as 15% to 30% of women will experience date rape at some point in their lives." http://rapethetruevictim2010.weebly.com/types-of-rape.html

OGIS
04-10-2016, 10:35 AM
There are a half-million google entries for "can a man carry a fetus."

The answer is: "Yes, we are very close to being able to do that."

The answer to pregnancy via rape, as with any unwanted pregnancy, is technology. We should figure out a way to transplant the fetus into the rapist, pass the appropriate laws to allow it, and let the rapist carry the child to term, to be delivered by caesarean section nine months later. Additional laws should allow "whatever means necessary" to prevent the rapist from aborting the fetus. The delivered baby will be seized by the state and given up for adoption.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 10:38 AM
Also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR08DztQtk0


Would Republicans have a problem with this?

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 10:39 AM
Sure, at the cost of someone else.

Tell you what, if it were possible, would you sacrifice your life or the lives of your loved ones to prevent a woman being raped and/or having to give birth?

You readily throw the innocent, unborn into the blender, be a man. Offer yours up also.

Fucking coward.You one of those internet tough guys I've heard about? Just stick to the subject without the knuckle dragging comments sonny boy.

Quicksilver
04-10-2016, 10:42 AM
Sure, at the cost of someone else.

Tell you what, if it were possible, would you sacrifice your life or the lives of your loved ones to prevent a woman being raped and/or having to give birth?

You readily throw the innocent, unborn into the blender, be a man. Offer yours up also.

$#@!ing coward.

Oh come on now.... Have you ever tried blended babies??? Don't knock it.... Delish.. and a favored drink of most Liberals...

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 10:44 AM
Vicrim?

Is the OP Japanese?Oh! Now the tough guy is a spell checker too? How cute lil' fella, coochie coo...

OGIS
04-10-2016, 10:48 AM
Oh come on now.... Have you ever tried blended babies??? Don't knock it.... Delish.. and a favored drink of most Liberals...

I prefer my blended baby with whipped cream and a dash of pie spice sprinkled on top. They are available at selected Starbucks (you have to know the sekret liebrul code to order), just under the menu item for the drinks that use gay sperm as an ingredient.

Served, of course, in a plain red cup.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 10:49 AM
Oh! Now the tough guy is a spell checker too? How cute lil' fella, coochie coo...

It appears that the Captain is off his game today.

Chris
04-10-2016, 10:53 AM
Stop the bad faith baiting and insulting each other. Do try and discuss the topic.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 10:57 AM
Cruz is unelectable. Nuff said.

Hardly.

Cruz outpolls Trump against the Dem opposition. Your position is ignorant.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 11:01 AM
says the man from behind his keyboard

:biglaugh:

go get 'em, tiger

Good grief.

Stupid comment from a professional. The only way to communicate on this forum is behind a keyboard.

Uber-idiotic.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 11:02 AM
Abortion should not be an issue for the federal government.

Homicide is.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 11:03 AM
So you reject the con talking point that blacks are a captive voting block who will vote for a "D" regardless of who is it?

You don't have to reject that argument to acknowledge the trend.

Because you can simultaneously know that blacks vote (D) while also noting that the number that do so can vary fairly significantly.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 11:03 AM
So you reject the con talking point that blacks are a captive voting block who will vote for a "D" regardless of who is it?

No.

Bernie is not your typical democrat. He is a socialist.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 11:04 AM
There are a half-million google entries for "can a man carry a fetus."

The answer is: "Yes, we are very close to being able to do that."

The answer to pregnancy via rape, as with any unwanted pregnancy, is technology. We should figure out a way to transplant the fetus into the rapist, pass the appropriate laws to allow it, and let the rapist carry the child to term, to be delivered by caesarean section nine months later. Additional laws should allow "whatever means necessary" to prevent the rapist from aborting the fetus. The delivered baby will be seized by the state and given up for adoption.

No man will carry a fetus.

Bo-4
04-10-2016, 11:06 AM
He actually says if a woman is raped, it is a horrible crime, but she should not be allowed to abort the rapist's fetus. Incredible. http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/04/05/ted-cruz-tells-megyn-kelly-he-would-force-rape-victims-to-carry-rapists-baby-video/

Cruz - as creepy and unpalatable as they come.

http://commondreams.org/sites/default/files/media/tedcruz-reinvent.jpg

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 11:08 AM
You one of those internet tough guys I've heard about? Just stick to the subject without the knuckle dragging comments sonny boy.

There's nothing "tough guy" about my statement, don't try to turn it into something it's not.

People like you readily applaud the slaughter of unborn children so the mom isn't inconvenienced.

The question is simple, hypothetically if it were possible would you sacrifice your life for the convenience of a woman? When it's an unborn child's life, you're all for it.

Hypocrite.

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 11:09 AM
Funny, the talk now is about men carrying babies.

So step up hypothetical folks, would you lay down your life for the convenience of a woman?

OGIS
04-10-2016, 11:11 AM
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Tahuyaman http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=1509726#post1509726)
Abortion should not be an issue for the federal government.



Homicide is.

Actually, no it isn't... except under special circumstances.


Under the Constitution, criminal law is mostly handled by individual states. If you are accused of murder (https://www.wklaw.com/murder-PC187/) committed in California, you will most likely be charged and tried under California’s laws. However, there are many circumstances in which killing someone can also break a federal law. In those instances, you can be tried in federal court.
These cases usually involve killings that are related to the following:


Drug trafficking
Crossing state borders
Occur on a body of water
Are considered an attack on the U.S. government or judicial system

Here are 10 such circumstances in which a killing could be charged as a federal crime:



https://www.wklaw.com/10-ways-murder-becomes-a-federal-crime/

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 11:16 AM
There's nothing "tough guy" about my statement, don't try to turn it into something it's not.

People like you readily applaud the slaughter of unborn children so the mom isn't inconvenienced.

The question is simple, hypothetically if it were possible would you sacrifice your life for the convenience of a woman? When it's an unborn child's life, you're all for it.

Hypocrite.


Go away sonny, you are unworthy.

Quicksilver
04-10-2016, 11:18 AM
I prefer my blended baby with whipped cream and a dash of pie spice sprinkled on top. They are available at selected Starbucks (you have to know the sekret liebrul code to order), just under the menu item for the drinks that use gay sperm as an ingredient.

Served, of course, in a plain red cup.

Not me... I'm more into savory... salt, pepper and a dash of Tabasco... maybe a celery stalk.. Yes.. I know that code.. AND the secret handshake..

OGIS
04-10-2016, 11:19 AM
There are a half-million google entries for "can a man carry a fetus."

The answer is: "Yes, we are very close to being able to do that."

The answer to pregnancy via rape, as with any unwanted pregnancy, is technology. We should figure out a way to transplant the fetus into the rapist, pass the appropriate laws to allow it, and let the rapist carry the child to term, to be delivered by caesarean section nine months later. Additional laws should allow "whatever means necessary" to prevent the rapist from aborting the fetus. The delivered baby will be seized by the state and given up for adoption.


No man will carry a fetus.

Are you saying that it is technologically/medically impossible? Or that no man would want to?

If the former, I believe that you are simply misinformed. I gave a google search string; perhaps you should look at it and educate yourself. If the latter, lol, what CHOICE would the man have if he is a convicted rapist, and told by the law that, yes, he WILL carry the child.

And then if he induces an abortion (very VERY dangerous since the fetus in inside his stomach wall and needs to be removed by surgery) then he gets charged with murder. Easy peasy.

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 11:20 AM
Go away sonny, you are unworthy.

Pretty much what I expected from a coward.

When it's the death of an unborn child, something you don't have to see, deal with, something that happens beyond your radar you cheer and wave the "GO ABORTION" flag but when you're asked to take responsibility for the convenience of a woman you cower back into your hole.

Zero integrity, you truly are less than human.

donttread
04-10-2016, 11:20 AM
She can still use her knees to kick her attacker who is violating her in a place he'll never forget as well as her hands and fingers! And that actually exemplifies the need for All Women and even men to carry MaceŽ or something else that is legal in order to protect themselves against such crimes.

Does the term "beaten into submission mean anything to you?

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 11:24 AM
Pretty much what I expected from a coward.

When it's the death of an unborn child, something you don't have to see, deal with, something that happens beyond your radar you cheer and wave the "GO ABORTION" flag but when you're asked to take responsibility for the convenience of a woman you cower back into your hole.

Zero integrity, you truly are less than human. I won't call you any names as you seem bound to do. I just consider it another troll comment.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 11:26 AM
Dodge and weave

An abortion is not death by natural causes. That leaves homicide as the cause.
http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Tahuyaman http://thepoliticalforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://thepoliticalforums.com/showthread.php?p=1509726#post1509726)
Abortion should not be an issue for the federal government.




Actually, no it isn't... except under special circumstances.



https://www.wklaw.com/10-ways-murder-becomes-a-federal-crime/

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 11:28 AM
Are you saying that it is technologically/medically impossible? Or that no man would want to?

If the former, I believe that you are simply misinformed. I gave a google search string; perhaps you should look at it and educate yourself. If the latter, lol, what CHOICE would the man have if he is a convicted rapist, and told by the law that, yes, he WILL carry the child.

And then if he induces an abortion (very VERY dangerous since the fetus in inside his stomach wall and needs to be removed by surgery) then he gets charged with murder. Easy peasy.

I am saying that a man won't carry a baby. An estrogen filled girl boy may.

Why? Are you looking into it?

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 11:34 AM
I won't call you any names as you seem bound to do. I just consider it another troll comment.

Of course, because you can't in good conscience answer the question.

Pathetic but typical.

Here, I'll answer it since you refuse. No, I would not sacrifice my life for the convenience of a woman. Nor do I support the sacrificing of the lives of the unborn for the same thing.

My conscience is clear.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 11:35 AM
You don't have to reject that argument to acknowledge the trend.

Because you can simultaneously know that blacks vote (D) while also noting that the number that do so can vary fairly significantly.

I think that when blacks see the (R) alternative, especially if it is "The Zodiac Killer" they may very well decide that the socialist white guy is a better alternative.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 11:38 AM
I think that when blacks see the (R) alternative, especially if it is "The Zodiac Killer" they may very well decide that the socialist white guy is a better alternative.

You are expecting all blacks to be clinically insane?

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 11:39 AM
I think that when blacks see the (R) alternative, especially if it is "The Zodiac Killer" they may very well decide that the socialist white guy is a better alternative.

Are you unaware that your comment does not address my point?

It's like you think the same percentage of black voters show up every time or something.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 11:42 AM
The position is understandable. Choose to disagree, but there's nothing intellectually indefensible about the position.

That scenario is one of the reasons my position on abortion has moved over the years. I realized that my religious beliefs allowed leeway: the Bible references that "life begins when the blood moves", which I take to mean 17-20 days after conception, when the fetus actually begins to pump its own blood.

If there is a rape, then, there is no reason to not immediately administer an abortifacient, to prevent the stage where I believe one becomes an individual. There is plenty of time in fact.

Who can agree with this position?

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 12:05 PM
Pretty much what I expected from a coward.

When it's the death of an unborn child, something you don't have to see, deal with, something that happens beyond your radar you cheer and wave the "GO ABORTION" flag but when you're asked to take responsibility for the convenience of a woman you cower back into your hole.

Zero integrity, you truly are less than human.Sonny, I won't dignify your comments with retorts I will only say this. I'll be 80 soon, I am a well traveled veteran who has voted every election since Eisenhower. I spent 30 years on my position with a major corporation, I have seen the many faces of death up close. My political ideals are based upon many of the things that have been exposed to me in my lifetime. I do not need, expect or want a punk like you obviously are to come along paraphrasing my comments into something not implied in my OP so you can craft some asinine verbal barrage of bull$hit. So, yes go away sonny and play with someone less able to read you where you might stand a chance.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 12:19 PM
You are expecting all blacks to be clinically insane?

Why not? The cons on this board appear to be. Please tell me precisely what it is about Sanders that is going to make blacks not vote for him... especially given the Rethuglican alternatives.

Besides, the con position here seems to be that blacks, being lazy and shiftless, love their sochulisms. So why would they NOT vote for the socialist? Please answer that question.. without the standard evasions.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 12:22 PM
Sonny, I won't dignify your comments with retorts I will only say this. I'll be 80 soon, I am a well traveled veteran who has voted every election since Eisenhower. I spent 30 years on my position with a major corporation, I have seen the many faces of death up close. My political ideals are based upon many of the things that have been exposed to me in my lifetime. I do not need, expect or want a punk like you obviously are to come along paraphrasing my comments into something not implied in my OP so you can craft some asinine verbal barrage of bull$hit. So, yes go away sonny and play with someone less able to read you where you might stand a chance.

Well said.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 12:33 PM
....the Bible references that "life begins when the blood moves",....

Who can agree with this position?

You might like to check out Biblehub to avoid silly errors like this.

Are you arguing from Leviticus 17:11?








Your search - life begins when the blood moves - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing "life begins when the blood moves".

http://biblehub.net/search.php?q=life+begins+when+the+blood+moves




The actual verse (based on the translation) states:

Parallel Verses
New International Version (http://biblehub.com/niv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

New Living Translation (http://biblehub.com/nlt/leviticus/17.htm)
for the life of the body is in its blood. I have given you the blood on the altar to purify you, making you right with the LORD. It is the blood, given in exchange for a life, that makes purification possible.

English Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/esv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

New American Standard Bible (http://biblehub.com/nasb/leviticus/17.htm)
'For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.'

King James Bible (http://biblehub.com/kjv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (http://biblehub.com/hcsb/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have appointed it to you to make atonement on the altar for your lives, since it is the lifeblood that makes atonement.

International Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/isv/leviticus/17.htm)
because the life of the flesh is in the blood itself, and I myself have given it to you all so that atonement may be made for your souls on the altar, since the blood itself makes atonement through the life that is in it.

NET Bible (http://biblehub.com/net/leviticus/17.htm)
for the life of every living thing is in the blood. So I myself have assigned it to you on the altar to make atonement for your lives, for the blood makes atonement by means of the life.

GOD'S WORDŽ Translation (http://biblehub.com/gwt/leviticus/17.htm)
because blood contains life. I have given this blood to you to make peace with me on the altar. Blood is needed to make peace with me.

JPS Tanakh 1917 (http://biblehub.com/jps/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life.

New American Standard 1977 (http://biblehub.com/nasb77/leviticus/17.htm)
‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.’

Jubilee Bible 2000 (http://biblehub.com/jub/leviticus/17.htm)
For the soul (or life) of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you to reconcile your persons (or souls) upon the altar; therefore the same blood reconciles the person.

King James 2000 Bible (http://biblehub.com/kj2000/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul.

American King James Version (http://biblehub.com/akjv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you on the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul.

American Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/asv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life.

Douay-Rheims Bible (http://biblehub.com/drb/leviticus/17.htm)
Because the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you, that you may make atonement with it upon the altar for your souls, and the blood may be for an expiation of the soul.

Darby Bible Translation (http://biblehub.com/dbt/leviticus/17.htm)
for the soul of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul.

English Revised Version (http://biblehub.com/erv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life.

Webster's Bible Translation (http://biblehub.com/wbt/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar, to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

World English Bible (http://biblehub.com/web/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes atonement by reason of the life.

Young's Literal Translation (http://biblehub.com/ylt/leviticus/17.htm)
for the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar, to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood which maketh atonement for the soul.

http://biblehub.com/leviticus/17-11.htm

Oh, and are you Jewish? Because, according to most Christians, Jesus and the New Testament are the New Covenant and supercede the Old Testament.

Do you also not eat shellfish? Do you mix your fabrics?

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 12:38 PM
Sonny, I won't dignify your comments with retorts I will only say this. I'll be 80 soon, I am a well traveled veteran who has voted every election since Eisenhower. I spent 30 years on my position with a major corporation, I have seen the many faces of death up close. My political ideals are based upon many of the things that have been exposed to me in my lifetime. I do not need, expect or want a punk like you obviously are to come along paraphrasing my comments into something not implied in my OP so you can craft some asinine verbal barrage of bull$hit. So, yes go away sonny and play with someone less able to read you where you might stand a chance.

It's never too late to regain your dignity.

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 12:40 PM
You might like to check out Biblehub to avoid silly errors like this.

Are you arguing from Leviticus 17:11?








The actual verse (based on the translation) states:

Parallel Verses
New International Version (http://biblehub.com/niv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

New Living Translation (http://biblehub.com/nlt/leviticus/17.htm)
for the life of the body is in its blood. I have given you the blood on the altar to purify you, making you right with the LORD. It is the blood, given in exchange for a life, that makes purification possible.

English Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/esv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

New American Standard Bible (http://biblehub.com/nasb/leviticus/17.htm)
'For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.'

King James Bible (http://biblehub.com/kjv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (http://biblehub.com/hcsb/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have appointed it to you to make atonement on the altar for your lives, since it is the lifeblood that makes atonement.

International Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/isv/leviticus/17.htm)
because the life of the flesh is in the blood itself, and I myself have given it to you all so that atonement may be made for your souls on the altar, since the blood itself makes atonement through the life that is in it.

NET Bible (http://biblehub.com/net/leviticus/17.htm)
for the life of every living thing is in the blood. So I myself have assigned it to you on the altar to make atonement for your lives, for the blood makes atonement by means of the life.

GOD'S WORDŽ Translation (http://biblehub.com/gwt/leviticus/17.htm)
because blood contains life. I have given this blood to you to make peace with me on the altar. Blood is needed to make peace with me.

JPS Tanakh 1917 (http://biblehub.com/jps/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life.

New American Standard 1977 (http://biblehub.com/nasb77/leviticus/17.htm)
‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.’

Jubilee Bible 2000 (http://biblehub.com/jub/leviticus/17.htm)
For the soul (or life) of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you to reconcile your persons (or souls) upon the altar; therefore the same blood reconciles the person.

King James 2000 Bible (http://biblehub.com/kj2000/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul.

American King James Version (http://biblehub.com/akjv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you on the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul.

American Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/asv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life.

Douay-Rheims Bible (http://biblehub.com/drb/leviticus/17.htm)
Because the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you, that you may make atonement with it upon the altar for your souls, and the blood may be for an expiation of the soul.

Darby Bible Translation (http://biblehub.com/dbt/leviticus/17.htm)
for the soul of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul.

English Revised Version (http://biblehub.com/erv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life.

Webster's Bible Translation (http://biblehub.com/wbt/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar, to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

World English Bible (http://biblehub.com/web/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes atonement by reason of the life.

Young's Literal Translation (http://biblehub.com/ylt/leviticus/17.htm)
for the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar, to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood which maketh atonement for the soul.

http://biblehub.com/leviticus/17-11.htm

Oh, and are you Jewish? Because, according to most Christians, Jesus and the New Testament are the New Covenant and supercede the Old Testament.

Do you also not eat shellfish? Do you mix your fabrics?

So, Old Guy - not sure if you believe in God but do you figure that, assuming God is real that he'd be totally cool with grinding up fetuses for sausage?

So you'd ask him that question on judgment day and he'd just say "yeah, that whole life thing was a technicality, you're cool"?

OGIS
04-10-2016, 12:50 PM
So, Old Guy - not sure if you believe in God but do you figure that, assuming God is real that he'd be totally cool with grinding up fetuses for sausage?

So you'd ask him that question on judgment day and he'd just say "yeah, that whole life thing was a technicality, you're cool"?

Please don't change the subject. I was responding to the statement that "life begins when the blood moves." If you would like to respond to the accuracy of that, then please do so.

It's never too late to regain your dignity.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 12:51 PM
You are expecting all blacks to be clinically insane?

Racism of low expectations? Really? From you?

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 12:54 PM
It's never too late to regain your dignity.Then you should work at that sonny.

Dr. Who
04-10-2016, 12:56 PM
I am saying that a man won't carry a baby. An estrogen filled girl boy may.

Why? Are you looking into it?
How about fathers that don't want their offspring aborted? They would then have a clear choice - they could carry the baby and take the necessary hormones to do so. It's only 9 months.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 12:57 PM
Why not? The cons on this board appear to be. Please tell me precisely what it is about Sanders that is going to make blacks not vote for him... especially given the Rethuglican alternatives.

Besides, the con position here seems to be that blacks, being lazy and shiftless, love their sochulisms. So why would they NOT vote for the socialist? Please answer that question.. without the standard evasions.

Blacks are not interested in Sanders. You must not be from the south.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 01:00 PM
Racism of low expectations? Really? From you?

It is soft bigotry of low expectations. And it refers to democrat's love of special status laws for blacks. And it also explains the democratic penchant for their belief that minorities and old people are too stupid to figure out how to get a photo ID for life. And occasionally, to vote.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 01:11 PM
Are you saying that it is technologically/medically impossible? Or that no man would want to?

If the former, I believe that you are simply misinformed. I gave a google search string; perhaps you should look at it and educate yourself. If the latter, lol, what CHOICE would the man have if he is a convicted rapist, and told by the law that, yes, he WILL carry the child.

And then if he induces an abortion (very VERY dangerous since the fetus in inside his stomach wall and needs to be removed by surgery) then he gets charged with murder. Easy peasy.


I am saying that a man won't carry a baby. An estrogen filled girl boy may.

Are you saying he won't want to? He's a felon under government control; he won't have a choice. So what if the State fills him up with female horemones? He gave up his rights when he decided to rape someone.

Are you saying that, physically, medically, he cannot? You need to bone up a bit on science.

Oh, and I think your second sentence above needs some editing.


Why? Are you looking into it?

Are you name calling again? Shouldn't you be TBing yourself for bad faith postings and ad hom?

Mister D
04-10-2016, 01:15 PM
Blacks are not interested in Sanders. You must not be from the south.

And he certainly hasn't paid any attention to the primaries.

Mac-7
04-10-2016, 01:20 PM
I can't argue with your description of the dem candidates. However, I don't think the repubs are doing any better at picking someone to lead the nation. The reasonable candidates are either sitting in last place in the polls (Kasich) or dropped out due to lack of interest (Webb).

It is not surprising that liberals would see a moderate pandering kasich as the only reasonable republican candidate.

He comes very close to being hillary without the skirt and halter top.

Cthulhu
04-10-2016, 01:29 PM
Are you saying that it is technologically/medically impossible? Or that no man would want to?

If the former, I believe that you are simply misinformed. I gave a google search string; perhaps you should look at it and educate yourself. If the latter, lol, what CHOICE would the man have if he is a convicted rapist, and told by the law that, yes, he WILL carry the child.

And then if he induces an abortion (very VERY dangerous since the fetus in inside his stomach wall and needs to be removed by surgery) then he gets charged with murder. Easy peasy.
Rather curious. It's only chargeable with murder of a man kills the unborn eh? When inside of him?

Whatever happened to the my body my choice argument?

The double standards are amazing.

And hey forget rights and such. You don't think that is cruel and unusual right?

The mental midget circus has arrived folks.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Cthulhu
04-10-2016, 01:34 PM
It's never too late to regain your dignity.
Objection.

Some sorts can't be fixed. Or refuse to be fixed.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 01:36 PM
Are you saying he won't want to? He's a felon under government control; he won't have a choice. So what if the State fills him up with female horemones? He gave up his rights when he decided to rape someone.

Are you saying that, physically, medically, he cannot? You need to bone up a bit on science.

Oh, and I think your second sentence above needs some editing.



Are you name calling again? Shouldn't you be TBing yourself for bad faith postings and ad hom?

Unhinged. I probably shouldn't respond to that estrogen laced rant.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 01:38 PM
Rather curious. It's only chargeable with murder of a man kills the unborn eh? When inside of him?

Whatever happened to the my body my choice argument?

The double standards are amazing.

And hey forget rights and such. You don't think that is cruel and unusual right?

The mental midget circus has arrived folks.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Please show me where I have actually said that I am in favor of abortion.

I'll wait.

To help you along, my consistent position (reflected at least in part in various threads on this forum) has always been that abortion is a no-win situation, and that the answer is technology to make the issue moot. That's the position the Abortion Plank subcommittee (which I chaired) at the '76 LP convention decided on.

This clash of moral positions is really not a big mystery, nor rocket science. Ethical positions founded on contradictions must necessarily arrive at further contradictions when attempting to apply the ethic to real life applications.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 01:39 PM
Unhinged. I probably shouldn't respond to that estrogen laced rant.

Reported.

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 01:42 PM
And Pete is a MOD?????

OGIS
04-10-2016, 01:43 PM
Lol!

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 01:43 PM
And Pete is a MOD?????

yes

OGIS
04-10-2016, 01:45 PM
I don't think things are going the way "they" want on this thread. I expect that it will soon be moved to Purgatory.

Compliments can sometimes take strange forms.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 01:46 PM
I don't think things are going the way "they" want on this thread. I expect that it will soon be moved to Purgatory.

Compliments can sometimes take strange forms.

Incorrect.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 01:58 PM
lol!

michiganFats
04-10-2016, 02:00 PM
Hardly.

Cruz outpolls Trump against the Dem opposition. Your position is ignorant.

Cruz will make a lot of people stay home. Your position is a pipe dream.

hanger4
04-10-2016, 02:02 PM
Sonny, I won't dignify your comments with retorts I will only say this. I'll be 80 soon, I am a well traveled veteran who has voted every election since Eisenhower. I spent 30 years on my position with a major corporation, I have seen the many faces of death up close. My political ideals are based upon many of the things that have been exposed to me in my lifetime. I do not need, expect or want a punk like you obviously are to come along paraphrasing my comments into something not implied in my OP so you can craft some asinine verbal barrage of bull$hit. So, yes go away sonny and play with someone less able to read you where you might stand a chance.

Death by abortion is still death, and untill you come to that realization you have no argumemt.

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 02:15 PM
Where did I or anyone else say abortion was not death? Of course it is, depending on whether you consider a undeveloped human the same as one already born. It's all in definitions. But the bottom line is whether a rape victim has the right to have that seed aborted, I say hell yes with absolutely no recrimination. Tell me how much you remember a few weeks after YOU were conceived, what did you see then, what were your thoughts...

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 02:19 PM
Please don't change the subject. I was responding to the statement that "life begins when the blood moves." If you would like to respond to the accuracy of that, then please do so.

It's never too late to regain your dignity.

Nice punt.

If you don't want to answer the question just say so.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 02:19 PM
Where did I or anyone else say abortion was not death? Of course it is, depending on whether you consider a undeveloped human the same as one already born. It's all in definitions. But the bottom line is whether a rape victim has the right to have that seed aborted, I say hell yes with absolutely no recrimination. Tell me how much you remember a few weeks after YOU were conceived, what did you see then, what were your thoughts...

Cons, as their name suggests, are adept at the use of Straw Man.

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 02:20 PM
Where did I or anyone else say abortion was not death? Of course it is, depending on whether you consider a undeveloped human the same as one already born. It's all in definitions. But the bottom line is whether a rape victim has the right to have that seed aborted, I say hell yes with absolutely no recrimination. Tell me how much you remember a few weeks after YOU were conceived, what did you see then, what were your thoughts...

Awesome...

So you concede that abortion is murder, but it's justified because we don't want to inconvenience anyone.

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 02:28 PM
Awesome...

So you concede that abortion is murder, but it's justified because we don't want to inconvenience anyone.Listen, when did I say "murder"? I said "death" depending on definition. I do not contest any reason for abortion. I believe it to be the business of the woman and her physician. In the case of my OP I think the idea of even considering whether a woman should have to carry the fetus of a rapist is not even something debatable. Don't paraphrase my statements.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 02:29 PM
So, Old Guy - not sure if you believe in God but do you figure that, assuming God is real that he'd be totally cool with grinding up fetuses for sausage?

So you'd ask him that question on judgment day and he'd just say "yeah, that whole life thing was a technicality, you're cool"?


Please don't change the subject. I was responding to the statement that "life begins when the blood moves." If you would like to respond to the accuracy of that, then please do so.

It's never too late to regain your dignity.


Nice punt.

If you don't want to answer the question just say so.

As I said, the question under discussion (to which I have not seen and do not expect to see a rational response) was whether the statement "life begins when the blood moves" is accurate. From what I (and biblehub) can see, that phrase appears no where in the bible. Please address that issue. And no, because you saw fit to insert your comment into the discussion between Subdermal and myself, I will not answer your question until you make some comment, one way or the other, on the subject in question.

Thank you so much.

onecut
04-10-2016, 02:31 PM
Hey, life is dirt cheap anyway.

Grind them up for sausage and if they make it out of the vagina shuffle them off to war and an early death.

Why not? We'll just make more of them.

People are less than animals.

Rapists are indeed less than animals.

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 02:39 PM
Captain Obvious, saw your signature, not only is your junk apparently ugly, so is your attitude.

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 02:53 PM
Listen, when did I say "murder"? I said "death" depending on definition. I do not contest any reason for abortion. I believe it to be the business of the woman and her physician. In the case of my OP I think the idea of even considering whether a woman should have to carry the fetus of a rapist is not even something debatable. Don't paraphrase my statements.

lol

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 02:55 PM
As I said, the question under discussion (to which I have not seen and do not expect to see a rational response) was whether the statement "life begins when the blood moves" is accurate. From what I (and biblehub) can see, that phrase appears no where in the bible. Please address that issue. And no, because you saw fit to insert your comment into the discussion between @Subdermal (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1758) and myself, I will not answer your question until you make some comment, one way or the other, on the subject in question.

Thank you so much.

Can you waive the surrender flag any harder?

So, for you to answer my question I have to comment on something?

How ridiculous is that?

Seriously, it's pathetic. If choose not to address my point, just go quietly into that good night. Don't try to justify your punt with bullshit.

Seriously...

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 03:02 PM
lolYou are a gnat, a troll, not even worthy of comment.

Chris
04-10-2016, 03:03 PM
Have you two already gotten a room or what? :D

OGIS
04-10-2016, 03:07 PM
Can you waive the surrender flag any harder?

So, for you to answer my question I have to comment on something?

How ridiculous is that?

Seriously, it's pathetic. If choose not to address my point, just go quietly into that good night. Don't try to justify your punt with bull$#@!.

Seriously...

You injected yourself into the conversation.

Repeating to the clouds over and over again that you are victorious because reasons seems a little....

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/022/849/b49.png

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 03:09 PM
You might like to check out Biblehub to avoid silly errors like this.

Are you arguing from Leviticus 17:11?








The actual verse (based on the translation) states:

Parallel Verses
New International Version (http://biblehub.com/niv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.

New Living Translation (http://biblehub.com/nlt/leviticus/17.htm)
for the life of the body is in its blood. I have given you the blood on the altar to purify you, making you right with the LORD. It is the blood, given in exchange for a life, that makes purification possible.

English Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/esv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

New American Standard Bible (http://biblehub.com/nasb/leviticus/17.htm)
'For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.'

King James Bible (http://biblehub.com/kjv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (http://biblehub.com/hcsb/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have appointed it to you to make atonement on the altar for your lives, since it is the lifeblood that makes atonement.

International Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/isv/leviticus/17.htm)
because the life of the flesh is in the blood itself, and I myself have given it to you all so that atonement may be made for your souls on the altar, since the blood itself makes atonement through the life that is in it.

NET Bible (http://biblehub.com/net/leviticus/17.htm)
for the life of every living thing is in the blood. So I myself have assigned it to you on the altar to make atonement for your lives, for the blood makes atonement by means of the life.

GOD'S WORDŽ Translation (http://biblehub.com/gwt/leviticus/17.htm)
because blood contains life. I have given this blood to you to make peace with me on the altar. Blood is needed to make peace with me.

JPS Tanakh 1917 (http://biblehub.com/jps/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life.

New American Standard 1977 (http://biblehub.com/nasb77/leviticus/17.htm)
‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.’

Jubilee Bible 2000 (http://biblehub.com/jub/leviticus/17.htm)
For the soul (or life) of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you to reconcile your persons (or souls) upon the altar; therefore the same blood reconciles the person.

King James 2000 Bible (http://biblehub.com/kj2000/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul.

American King James Version (http://biblehub.com/akjv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you on the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul.

American Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/asv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life.

Douay-Rheims Bible (http://biblehub.com/drb/leviticus/17.htm)
Because the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you, that you may make atonement with it upon the altar for your souls, and the blood may be for an expiation of the soul.

Darby Bible Translation (http://biblehub.com/dbt/leviticus/17.htm)
for the soul of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul.

English Revised Version (http://biblehub.com/erv/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh atonement by reason of the life.

Webster's Bible Translation (http://biblehub.com/wbt/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar, to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

World English Bible (http://biblehub.com/web/leviticus/17.htm)
For the life of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes atonement by reason of the life.

Young's Literal Translation (http://biblehub.com/ylt/leviticus/17.htm)
for the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar, to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood which maketh atonement for the soul.

http://biblehub.com/leviticus/17-11.htm

Oh, and are you Jewish? Because, according to most Christians, Jesus and the New Testament are the New Covenant and supercede the Old Testament.

Do you also not eat shellfish? Do you mix your fabrics?

?

There is no error here. I wasn't quoting the Bible.

I said that the inference I drew was that life is when the blood moves. That is my belief, drawn from what is described in the Bible. It is the inference I draw, not an exact quote.

I'm not Jewish; it has nothing to do with this topic.

I am saying that my personal belief is that a fetus does not become an individual until they begin to pump their own blood, because a life - as the reference to the the identify of the individual as you've cited - is in the blood.

I'm asking if that position does or doesn't seem to resolve the sticky issue that you leftists love to pick at: abortion in the case of rape, incest, etc.

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 03:13 PM
You are a gnat, a troll, not even worthy of comment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 03:14 PM
Cruz will make a lot of people stay home. Your position is a pipe dream.

On which side?

Trump has far worse negatives on the GOP side than does Cruz. Which side are you suggesting stays home? Against two incredibly weak DEM candidates?

Cruz is the closest thing we've had to Reagan in 30 years.

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 03:15 PM
You injected yourself into the conversation.

Repeating to the clouds over and over again that you are victorious because reasons seems a little....

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/022/849/b49.png

In case you haven't noticed, Old Guy, that's how this message forum thingy works.

If you want strictly structured conversation, have one with Larry King.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 03:15 PM
On which side?

Trump has far worse negatives on the GOP side than does Cruz. Which side are you suggesting stays home? Against two incredibly weak DEM candidates?

Cruz is the closest thing we've had to Reagan in 30 years.

Has your family made contingency arrangements to deal with your emotional breakdown if Cruz loses?

michiganFats
04-10-2016, 03:17 PM
On which side?

Trump has far worse negatives on the GOP side than does Cruz. Which side are you suggesting stays home? Against two incredibly weak DEM candidates?

Cruz is the closest thing we've had to Reagan in 30 years.

We'll just have to wait and see what ends up happening in November. I see zero enthusiasm for Cruz and just can't see a big turnout to vote for him.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 03:17 PM
In case you haven't noticed, Old Guy, that's how this message forum thingy works.

If you want strictly structured conversation, have one with Larry King.

http://new2.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/It+s+good+bait+though+_f5abdfdf6e970a5d58b0ddbbb1e 8519d.jpg

OGIS
04-10-2016, 03:17 PM
We'll just have to wait and see what ends up happening in November. I see zero enthusiasm for Cruz and just can't see a big turnout to vote for him.

Few of the American public actually want a theocracy.

hanger4
04-10-2016, 03:22 PM
Cons, as their name suggests, are adept at the use of Straw Man.
And you are clueless as to what a strawmen is. I exaggerated, misrepresented or fabricated nothing.

Chris
04-10-2016, 03:22 PM
http://new2.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/It+s+good+bait+though+_f5abdfdf6e970a5d58b0ddbbb1e 8519d.jpg

We know, OGIS, we know.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 03:23 PM
Where did I or anyone else say abortion was not death? Of course it is, depending on whether you consider a undeveloped human the same as one already born. It's all in definitions. But the bottom line is whether a rape victim has the right to have that seed aborted, I say hell yes with absolutely no recrimination. Tell me how much you remember a few weeks after YOU were conceived, what did you see then, what were your thoughts...

A seed is not a plant.

Life is not an individual.

Your position is sophistry, as it does not address these critical milestones in development wrt a unique human life.

We have to pick an intellectually defensible position to determine when a life becomes an individual.

So far, liberals have offered - and regularly moved the goal posts - "the first trimester", or "when a fetus can survive outside the woman's womb".

Of course, those concessions have been forced by society's protest, and have no moral or intellectually defensible basis. They are offered merely to keep the liberal sacrament of Abortion intact.

One doesn't suddenly become an individual by society's definition merely because technology has suddenly advanced to allow survival outside of the womb at regularly sooner increments.

Were that so, one could easily imagine a not-too-distant future when a human can survive outside of the womb from conception, and strip bare as bankrupt the pithy and infantile proclamations of the pro-abortion leftists regarding the permissibility of abortion.

No. There has to be a point. I can see two: either one becomes an individual the moment that a sperm combines with an egg, or one becomes an individual when one is imbued with a soul.

We cannot certainly determine the latter; a metaphysical decision made far more difficult in a society full of immoral people who cannot accept the notion of a soul regardless.

There is sanctity of human life, and it must be defended - and it is inexorably wrapped in that issue.

So I pick the point that makes the most sense to me, particularly in light of the frequent references to the sanctity of blood, and that life exists within it.

When a fetus suddenly develops and circulates their own blood, I believe the individual is born.

Chris
04-10-2016, 03:23 PM
Few of the American public actually want a theocracy.

Few theists want theocracy.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 03:29 PM
Has your family made contingency arrangements to deal with your emotional breakdown if Cruz loses?

Have you made arrangements with Hostess for a truckload of your favorite snacks in case the Dem goes down?

Your comment was totally unnecessary.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 03:30 PM
We'll just have to wait and see what ends up happening in November. I see zero enthusiasm for Cruz and just can't see a big turnout to vote for him.

Your position is no more valid than anyone else's, which means that if you characterize someone else's as a pipe dream, yours is as well.

Cruz has consistently demonstrated momentum. His rally in Wisconsin was electric and I suggest that you don't know what you're talking about.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 03:30 PM
Few of the American public actually want a theocracy.

Less than a few, so you shouldn't be so fearful of it.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 03:31 PM
?

There is no error here. I wasn't quoting the Bible.

Then why did you have the phrase in quotes?


That scenario is one of the reasons my position on abortion has moved over the years. I realized that my religious beliefs allowed leeway: the Bible references that "life begins when the blood moves", which I take to mean 17-20 days after conception, when the fetus actually begins to pump its own blood.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 03:31 PM
Few of the American public actually want a theocracy.

Additionally asinine comment, and illustrative of your 100% ignorance of Cruz's - or any Constitutionalist's - belief systems.

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 03:32 PM
A seed is not a plant.

Life is not an individual.

Your position is sophistry, as it does not address these critical milestones in development wrt a unique human life.

We have to pick an intellectually defensible position to determine when a life becomes an individual.

So far, liberals have offered - and regularly moved the goal posts - "the first trimester", or "when a fetus can survive outside the woman's womb".

Of course, those concessions have been forced by society's protest, and have no moral or intellectually defensible basis. They are offered merely to keep the liberal sacrament of Abortion intact.

One doesn't suddenly become an individual by society's definition merely because technology has suddenly advanced to allow survival outside of the womb at regularly sooner increments.

Were that so, one could easily imagine a not-too-distant future when a human can survive outside of the womb from conception, and strip bare as bankrupt the pithy and infantile proclamations of the pro-abortion leftists regarding the permissibility of abortion.

No. There has to be a point. I can see two: either one becomes an individual the moment that a sperm combines with an egg, or one becomes an individual when one is imbued with a soul.

We cannot certainly determine the latter; a metaphysical decision made far more difficult in a society full of immoral people who cannot accept the notion of a soul regardless.

There is sanctity of human life, and it must be defended - and it is inexorably wrapped in that issue.

So I pick the point that makes the most sense to me, particularly in light of the frequent references to the sanctity of blood, and that life exists within it.

When a fetus suddenly develops and circulates their own blood, I believe the individual is born.Well, that's one mans definition. Mine is different. But in any case the OP is about a rape victim's right to abort a rapists seed. I have taken a position that of course she should retain that right. I happen to believe in a woman's right to choose in any event. You have and opinion, I have one but the fact is the law is on my side.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 03:34 PM
Then why did you have the phrase in quotes?

I was quoting myself, and my belief on the topic.

Now that we've cleared up that misconception, do you wish to have a substantive conversation on my determination?

OGIS
04-10-2016, 03:35 PM
Have you made arrangements with Hostess for a truckload of your favorite snacks in case the Dem goes down?

Your comment was totally unnecessary.

As are most of yours.

It was a serious question; I've known several political partisans, on both sides, who have become unhinged when their candidate loses. One got in trouble for threatening to assassinate the winner; another actually ended up in the hospital after taking a bottle of Oxy. No, he didn't make it.

Please don't commit suicide on us if Cruz loses. It's hard enough to find free entertainment these days.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 03:37 PM
Well, that's one mans definition. Mine is different.

Are you proud of it? You certainly don't seem anxious to share it, since right there would have been a fantastic opportunity to do so.


But in any case the OP is about a rape victim's right to abort a rapists seed. I have taken a position that of course she should retain that right. I happen to believe in a woman's right to choose in any event. You have and opinion, I have one but the fact is the law is on my side.

Again a leftist hides behind what was written into law, and illegitimately. Why are you not able to proudly declare a position that is moral, instead of merely legal?

Additionally, since you appear inattentive on this, I believe a pregnancy can be aborted under any circumstance, within a short period of time. Two weeks is ample, and I've explained my reasoning.

What is your problem with demanding that a pregnancy due to rape is aborted quickly?

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 03:38 PM
Are you proud of it? You certainly don't seem anxious to share it, since right there would have been a fantastic opportunity to do so.



Again a leftist hides behind what was written into law, and illegitimately. Why are you not able to proudly declare a position that is moral, instead of merely legal?

Additionally, since you appear inattentive on this, I believe a pregnancy can be aborted under any circumstance, within a short period of time. Two weeks is ample, and I've explained my reasoning.

What is your problem with demanding that a pregnancy due to rape is aborted quickly?My position is a moral one, yours is not. EOM

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 03:38 PM
As are most of yours.

No, they're not. I put more thought into my posts than most posters.


It was a serious question; I've known several political partisans, on both sides, who have become unhinged when their candidate loses.

No it wasn't, and you're obviously a dishonest jackass for claiming it was.


One got in trouble for threatening to assassinate the winner; another actually ended up in the hospital after taking a bottle of Oxy. No, he didn't make it.

Please don't commit suicide on us if Cruz loses. It's hard enough to find free entertainment these days.

Derp.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 03:39 PM
Mu position is a moral one, yours is not. EOM

Who the Fock knows? You haven't shared yours in any detail at all, despite my pointing out that you should.

Claiming my stance is not moral makes absolutely no sense at all. Defend it if you can.

Cthulhu
04-10-2016, 03:40 PM
Captain Obvious, saw your signature, not only is your junk apparently ugly, so is your attitude.
Ha...

You looked at his junk.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Cthulhu
04-10-2016, 03:46 PM
Please show me where I have actually said that I am in favor of abortion.

I'll wait.

To help you along, my consistent position (reflected at least in part in various threads on this forum) has always been that abortion is a no-win situation, and that the answer is technology to make the issue moot. That's the position the Abortion Plank subcommittee (which I chaired) at the '76 LP convention decided on.

This clash of moral positions is really not a big mystery, nor rocket science. Ethical positions founded on contradictions must necessarily arrive at further contradictions when attempting to apply the ethic to real life applications.

...and marsupials often have forked penises.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 03:46 PM
Ha...

You looked at his junk.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.You understand the word "apparently"? Idiot.

Cthulhu
04-10-2016, 03:48 PM
You understand the word "apparently"? Idiot.
It's too late. What has been seen, cannot be unseen.

Meat gazer.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 03:48 PM
Who the Fock knows? You haven't shared yours in any detail at all, despite my pointing out that you should.

Claiming my stance is not moral makes absolutely no sense at all. Defend it if you can.I believe all decisions made by a woman to have a abortion is moral. Get it?

OGIS
04-10-2016, 03:49 PM
Ha...

You looked at his junk.

well, to be fair, he was waving all 4 inches of it around in the air.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 03:51 PM
well, to be fair, he was waving all 4 inches of it around in the air.

Wow. You've paid close attention.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 03:53 PM
I believe all decisions made by a woman to have a abortion is moral. Get it?

I'll get back to dissecting this assertion, 80 yr old, in a moment.

My question, however, was not answered. I'll ask it again. How, exactly do you defend the claim that my position is not moral?

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 03:58 PM
I'll get back to dissecting this assertion, 80 yr old, in a moment.

My question, however, was not answered. I'll ask it again. How, exactly do you defend the claim that my position is not moral?You seek to deny another human, one who has already been horribly victimized the right to at least remove the constant reminder of her trauma. Totally immoral on your part. BTW yes, 80 years and if you are lucky one day you too might mature.

Captain Obvious
04-10-2016, 04:01 PM
well, to be fair, he was waving all 4 inches of it around in the air.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYlDbv7MqE8

OGIS
04-10-2016, 04:02 PM
I believe all decisions made by a woman to have a abortion is moral. Get it?

Here is the crux of the arguments that the '76 LP convention Abortion Plank subcommittee came up with:

One vision of a moral world holds that women are subject to the exact same freedoms and responsibilities as men. This is, essentially, the feminist argument.

The other vision of a moral world holds that women, due to their physical nature as the "holders of new life" must of necessity be held to more restrictive standards than men, that they are necessarily second class citizens. It goes without saying that this second viewpoint is rooted in both Biblical and Islamic tradition, and essentially ends up treating women as "brood mares."

We were never able to reconcile the two positions, since they start with totally opposite premises. This is why the plank that was included in the platform ended up consisting only of meaningless weasel words. It is the reason that we came up with the "cop out" answer of technology (i.e.: fetal tanks where the baby can grow) ultimately resolving the problem. I think it is still the go-to position, as technology of that sort would resolve other problems, as well.

Personally, I also think that surrogate motherhood would be a hell of a growth industry. Christian women (or even men!) who were horrified at abortion could volunteer (for money) to carry unwanted fetuses to term.

But the thought of Ted Cruz with a baby bump is somehow a bit obscene.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 04:09 PM
Death by abortion is still death, and untill you come to that realization you have no argumemt.


Where did I or anyone else say abortion was not death? Of course it is, depending on whether you consider a undeveloped human the same as one already born. It's all in definitions. But the bottom line is whether a rape victim has the right to have that seed aborted, I say hell yes with absolutely no recrimination. Tell me how much you remember a few weeks after YOU were conceived, what did you see then, what were your thoughts...


Cons, as their name suggests, are adept at the use of Straw Man.


And you are clueless as to what a strawmen is. I exaggerated, misrepresented or fabricated nothing.

Yes you did, as clearly shown by the conversation above. Please QUOTE who said that abortion was not death. Thank you so much.

http://www.credocourses.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/straw-man-informal-logical-fallacy.jpg
http://upmic.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/lf1-strawman.png

OGIS
04-10-2016, 04:15 PM
...and marsupials often have forked penises.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

I'll accept that as a grudging, mean-spirited surrender.

Cthulhu
04-10-2016, 04:20 PM
I'll accept that as a grudging, mean-spirited surrender.
Lol.

Tangle not with Cthulhu.

Mortal.



Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Mister D
04-10-2016, 04:31 PM
Few of the American public actually want a theocracy.

You don't even know what a theocracy is, OGIS, but you do fear it for some reason.

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 04:34 PM
You don't even know what a theocracy is, OGIS.It will be patently clear if by some fluke Cruz became president which isn't going to happen.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 04:37 PM
My position is a moral one, yours is not. EOM
How is snuffing a baby out moral?

You have serious issues.

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 04:40 PM
How is snuffing a baby out moral?

You have serious issues.The reasons for "snuffing" out a fetus is a moral decision if made by the woman. I would argue that YOU may have issues, sheriff.

Cthulhu
04-10-2016, 04:46 PM
The reasons for "snuffing" out a fetus is a moral decision if made by the woman. I would argue that YOU may have issues, sheriff.
Can we kill toddlers too when inconvenient? I don't plan to, but having the option is nice.

:rolleyes:

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 04:49 PM
Can we kill toddlers too when inconvenient? I don't plan to, but having the option is nice.

:rolleyes:

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Bait_5c538b_5515578.gif

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 04:57 PM
Can we kill toddlers too when inconvenient? I don't plan to, but having the option is nice.

:rolleyes:

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.Don't be an ass. Killing people out of the womb by birth is not the source of discussion.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 05:01 PM
You seek to deny another human, one who has already been horribly victimized the right to at least remove the constant reminder of her trauma. Totally immoral on your part.

Let's assume that as part of decaying for 8 decades now, you can hardly see. Assuming that, I'll grant you another chance.

Where does my position deny a rape victim the ability to end the pregnancy?


BTW yes, 80 years and if you are lucky one day you too might mature.

If by 'mature', you mean "become an inattentive leftist asshat", I'll stay as I am, thanks.

Subdermal
04-10-2016, 05:04 PM
It will be patently clear if by some fluke Cruz became president which isn't going to happen.

I'll reiterate: you are wholly ignorant regarding Cruz's position. He's already explained how it is not possible to impose one's religious beliefs on anyone in a Constitutional Republic where the rules regarding Constitutional limits and States Rights are honored.

You don't even want to understand that.

Mister D
04-10-2016, 05:04 PM
It will be patently clear if by some fluke Cruz became president which isn't going to happen.

No, it won't. Apparently, you don't understand what the term means either but that's alright.

Mister D
04-10-2016, 05:05 PM
I'll reiterate: you are wholly ignorant regarding Cruz's position. He's already explained how it is not possible to impose one's religious beliefs on anyone in a Constitutional Republic where the rules regarding Constitutional limits and States Rights are honored.

You don't even want to understand that.

They have no idea what theocracy means.

Mister D
04-10-2016, 05:06 PM
http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/Bait_5c538b_5515578.gif

I have never seen someone engage so consistently in the very behavior he condemns.

Cthulhu
04-10-2016, 05:07 PM
Don't be an ass. Killing people out of the womb by birth is not the source of discussion.
Hey, convenience is the argument. Why should it end after birth?

Killing a child prior to birth is still killing out of convenience. I just want to extend the window of opportunity.

We could call it a 4th term abortion.

Although the medical community would have to call it quarters of a pregnancy because having 4 trimesters is kinda silly when you think about it.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Cthulhu
04-10-2016, 05:09 PM
I have never seen someone engage so consistently in the very behavior he condemns.
While true, his has blinking lights. So it is in a league of its own.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

hanger4
04-10-2016, 05:10 PM
Yes you did, as clearly shown by the conversation above. Please QUOTE who said that abortion was not death. Thank you so much.

http://www.credocourses.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/straw-man-informal-logical-fallacy.jpg
http://upmic.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/lf1-strawman.png

You conveniently forgot to quote what my 'death by abortion' comment was responding to.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 05:10 PM
The reasons for "snuffing" out a fetus is a moral decision if made by the woman. I would argue that YOU may have issues, sheriff.


I know that.

When SCOTUS revisits this issue the main question is going to be homicide. Deal with it.

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 05:12 PM
I know that.

When SCOTUS revisits this issue the main question is going to be homicide. Deal with it.YOU deal with it Sheriff.

hanger4
04-10-2016, 05:16 PM
Don't be an ass. Killing people out of the womb by birth is not the source of discussion.

Correct. Killing life within the womb is.

Peter1469
04-10-2016, 05:25 PM
YOU deal with it Sheriff.

On it.

Tahuyaman
04-10-2016, 05:58 PM
So you are OK with a state if they decide to allow abortion?

I believe it's an issue which should be left up to the people of each state. No matter what they decide. I'm not a totalitarian where one size fits all, like you.

I can tolerate disagreement. You should open your mind a bit. I know that's expecting a lot, but......

Tahuyaman
04-10-2016, 05:59 PM
YOU deal with it Sheriff.


On it.


I still suspect that AZ Jim is maineman's alternate personality.

Tahuyaman
04-10-2016, 06:00 PM
Homicide is.


Of course.

AZ Jim
04-10-2016, 06:01 PM
I still suspect that AZ Jim is maineman's alternate personality.That would be a stupid assumption but then stupidity is your forte.

Tahuyaman
04-10-2016, 06:16 PM
That would be a stupid assumption but then stupidity is your forte.

Retorts like that actually go a long way in supporting my comment. I believe you are Mainman's alternate identity. You two have the same posting style. Senility combined with intoxication.

OGIS
04-10-2016, 08:24 PM
Retorts like that actually go a long way in supporting my comment. I believe you are Mainman's alternate identity. You two have the same posting style. Senility combined with intoxication.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/266/no_u_for_knowyourmeme.jpg

Tahuyaman
04-10-2016, 08:26 PM
Persuasive.....