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JVV
04-12-2016, 12:37 PM
Keep the revolution alive.

The people are either ready to take the power back from big money, or we're not.


I am ready.

Quicksilver
04-12-2016, 12:39 PM
You've just wasted a few bucks... but.. I'm sure it made you feel better.. like you are doing something.. small price to pay for that.

Subdermal
04-12-2016, 12:41 PM
Keep the revolution alive.

The people are either ready to take the power back from big money, or we're not.

I am ready.

You are misguided.

Continuing to feed Government our tax money will not take a whit of power back. The enemy isn't "big money". The enemy is the agency which "big money" uses to gain an advantage.

Big Federal Government, which is now powerful enough to address nearly anything - a power which it should never have been given, and which must be taken away.

You don't take away that power by making my taxes go up $40K+/yr. The guy you want is Cruz.

Bo-4
04-12-2016, 04:13 PM
Thanks for the reminder.

Bo-4 just smacked down another 27 bucks today, and so did a quarter million or so others.

:cool:

Bo-4
04-12-2016, 04:14 PM
You are misguided.

Continuing to feed Government our tax money will not take a whit of power back. The enemy isn't "big money". The enemy is the agency which "big money" uses to gain an advantage.

Big Federal Government, which is now powerful enough to address nearly anything - a power which it should never have been given, and which must be taken away.

You don't take away that power by making my taxes go up $40K+/yr. The guy you want is Cruz.

Creepy Ted will be president when pigs fly.

http://reverbpress.com/politics/ted-cruz-3-biggest-donors-reveal-just-how-creepy-he-really-is/

Safety
04-12-2016, 04:21 PM
Creepy Ted will be president when pigs fly.

http://reverbpress.com/politics/ted-cruz-3-biggest-donors-reveal-just-how-creepy-he-really-is/

Delta or Southwest?

Bo-4
04-12-2016, 04:26 PM
Delta or Southwest?

Smart pigs fly Southwest ;-)

http://www.barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/whenpigsfly1-vi.gif

JVV
04-15-2016, 01:11 AM
Never give up. Never surrender.

Hillary represents a backward move. Gotta keep the flame alive.

Mac-7
04-15-2016, 04:11 AM
Fox News said Sanders does not even have to ask for the money.

True believers just send it in spontaneously like the two lefties here.

Its shocking to think there are that many cradle to grave socialists in America but I suppose there are.

Peter1469
04-15-2016, 04:35 AM
Fox News said Sanders does not even have to ask for the money.

True believers just send it in spontaneously like the two lefties here.

Its shocking to think there are that many cradle to grave socialists in America but I suppose there are.

Especially the younger kids who are use to getting awards for waking up in the morning.

Mac-7
04-15-2016, 05:11 AM
Especially the younger kids who are use to getting awards for waking up in the morning.

No-score soccer where all the kiddies get a trophy.

but when the left begins shaping minds since pre-school they will be good little unquestioning socialists for the rest of their lives.

Quicksilver
04-15-2016, 07:04 AM
YES!!!!! Get 'em while they are young!!

AZ Jim
04-15-2016, 10:53 AM
Idealism only works when tempered by realism. Sanders suckers please remit payment to me @conem.com.

JVV
04-15-2016, 11:04 AM
Idealism only works when tempered by realism. Sanders suckers please remit payment to me @conem.com.


"realism" ... another way to say we don't really give a crap about big money in politics or the shrinking middle class or healthcare for all or investing in infrastructure and the poverty-stricken instead of war or ....

Quicksilver
04-15-2016, 11:05 AM
Idealism only works when tempered by realism. Sanders suckers please remit payment to me @conem.com.

I used to like Sanders... I really did.. but he is wearing on my nerves with his constant whining and nasty accusations. Not to mention that he has shown he has a great message, but no real plan to carry it out.. Also he is woefully uninformed on foreign policy. That said though, he is infinitely better than any Republican and I will vote for him in a heartbeat if he by some miracle should win the nomination.

AZ Jim
04-15-2016, 11:18 AM
"realism" ... another way to say we don't really give a crap about big money in politics or the shrinking middle class or healthcare for all or investing in infrastructure and the poverty-stricken instead of war or ....No. Realism=a way to actually pay for our dreams.

AZ Jim
04-15-2016, 11:19 AM
I used to like Sanders... I really did.. but he is wearing on my nerves with his constant whining and nasty accusations. Not to mention that he has shown he has a great message, but no real plan to carry it out.. Also he is woefully uninformed on foreign policy. That said though, he is infinitely better than any Republican and I will vote for him in a heartbeat if he by some miracle should win the nomination.Yes he is as well informed as that dolt, Trump.

JVV
04-15-2016, 11:21 AM
No. Realism=a way to actually pay for our dreams.


Baloney.

Realism in the case of Hillary and the present DNC is abandoning dreams and abandoning the pretense of caring about curbing a corrupt corporatocracy.

Hillary will shift the political center to the right, just like Bill did.

Quicksilver
04-15-2016, 11:24 AM
Baloney.

Realism in the case of Hillary and the present DNC is abandoning dreams and abandoning the pretense of caring about curbing a corrupt corporatocracy.


Hillary will shift the political center to the right, just like Bill did.

May I ask what you think a Republican controlled Congress will do to anything that Sanders proposes? Hmmmmmm? It's great to have youthful idealism... but a sign of maturity is to realize what is possible and what isn't.

AZ Jim
04-15-2016, 11:25 AM
Baloney.

Realism in the case of Hillary and the present DNC is abandoning dreams and abandoning the pretense of caring about curbing a corrupt corporatocracy.

Hillary will shift the political center to the right, just like Bill did.Don't vote for the one chance we as Democrats have to retain, at the minimum a veto pen in the oval office. We must rescue America from common cause, if a Republican wins, we lose big time.

JVV
04-15-2016, 11:55 AM
May I ask what you think a Republican controlled Congress will do to anything that Sanders proposes? Hmmmmmm? It's great to have youthful idealism... but a sign of maturity is to realize what is possible and what isn't.


Sanders would utilize the power of the people to pressure legislators.

Equal to that in importance is that a Sanders win would signify to legislators that they needed to listen to the people. At the moment, people are less than gnats. Legislators' constituency is the lobbyists.

Hillary will cut the people out of the process -- again -- and be forced to give more to the Republicans than she would have to if she bothered to get the people on her side first.



I'm not youthful. I am jaded, because of Democrats like Hillary and Wasserman Schultz. Electing Bernie would show that Democrats actually mean what they say and would go a long way toward getting people to support a Democratic agenda, in opinion polls, in calls to legislators, and in midterm voting.

Electing Hillary means giving up on reaching for a higher bar. Means making the corporatists and the military industrial complex feel even more comfortable than they already feel.

JVV
04-15-2016, 11:59 AM
Don't vote for the one chance we as Democrats have to retain, at the minimum a veto pen in the oval office. We must rescue America from common cause, if a Republican wins, we lose big time.


Sanders would keep the veto pen for the Democrats.

But Democrats are rejecting Sanders for Hillary.

Hillary is a step backwards.

A vote for Hillary tells the DNC that they don't need to try to move forward. All they have to do is say, "We're still better than Republicans," and scare people into voting for them.

I soundly reject that.



Democrats can choose now to show they're willing to practice what they preach.


Or they can wait until the next round to have a chance to get my vote. Maybe next time they'll be more willing to convince me that they mean what they say.

JVV
04-15-2016, 12:15 PM
'I have a conscience': the Wall Streeters fighting for Bernie Sanders in New York (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/14/new-york-primary-bernie-sanders-wall-street)


....

Adam Green, cofounder of the million-member advocacy organization Progressive Change Campaign Committee (PCCC), said that ideas like breaking up too-big-to-fail banks were not long ago on the margins of Democratic politics. “Now the center of gravity of the Democratic party as it thinks about Wall Street has dramatically shifted and both the candidates are talking about jailing bankers who break the law and breaking up big institutions.”

For the Bankers for Bernie, however, Clinton’s talk about toughening up the regulators and empowering prosecutors doesn’t go far enough. He may be an investment banker himself, but Ryan prefers Sanders’ pledge to begin breaking up the banks in his first 100 days in the White House over Clinton’s more indirect promises.

“She has a thousand talking points, but when the lights are turned off and all the glare of the election fades, politics-as-normal will return, the lobbyists will get to work, and nothing at all will happen,” he said.

Frank, still speaking anonymously, agrees. “Hillary Clinton is paying lip-service to Wall Street changes. Maybe in her heart she means business, but for me income inequality is the civil rights issue of our time, and I feel strongly we need a president who is totally committed to making this happen.”

^^ good summary of the playing field

The Xl
04-15-2016, 12:24 PM
May I ask what you think a Republican controlled Congress will do to anything that Sanders proposes? Hmmmmmm? It's great to have youthful idealism... but a sign of maturity is to realize what is possible and what isn't.

Want a dose of realism? Voting for Hillary Clinton, who is beholden to bankers and the military industrial complex and not the people, is no win at all. Supporting someone who is no good is illogical and immature.

Quicksilver
04-15-2016, 12:49 PM
Want a dose of realism? Voting for Hillary Clinton, who is beholden to bankers and the military industrial complex and not the people, is no win at all. Supporting someone who is no good is illogical and immature.

You are CERTAIN she is beholden to bankers? Has there ever been an instance where that has affected her vote? Can you come up with an example? Bernie certainly couldn't when asked that same question in the debate. what you are buying into is Sanders smear job to win votes. He is casting aspersions with absolutely NO fact or proof.

JVV
04-15-2016, 01:06 PM
You are CERTAIN she is beholden to bankers? Has there ever been an instance where that has affected her vote? Can you come up with an example? Bernie certainly couldn't when asked that same question in the debate. what you are buying into is Sanders smear job to win votes. He is casting aspersions with absolutely NO fact or proof.


It is so sad that there has to be a paper trail now or Democrats will pretend to ignore the obvious. And even if there is a paper trail, they'll say it isn't ironclad enough to hold up in a court of law so since she hasn't done enough to put her in jail, what she has done should be ignored.



Well, the American people need to ask a very simple question: If these contributions from Wall Street and other powerful special interests have no influence over the candidate, why are these special interests making huge campaign contributions? -- Bernie Sanders


Hillary attacked Obama in 2008 on receiving Big Oil money and acted like it couldn't help but affect his policies. And now among the multiple disingenuous defenses for the contributions she accepts is a deflection to Obama's record -- saying that implying the money is likely to affect her is like saying that Obama taking money from Wall Street didn't stop him from trying to reform Wall Street.

Well, Obama didn't try as much as progressives wanted, but Hillary knows that it's safe to hide behind him because she can, will and has already twisted principled criticisms of Obama as doing the GOP's dirty work.

AZ Jim
04-15-2016, 01:30 PM
Sanders would keep the veto pen for the Democrats.

But Democrats are rejecting Sanders for Hillary.

Hillary is a step backwards.

A vote for Hillary tells the DNC that they don't need to try to move forward. All they have to do is say, "We're still better than Republicans," and scare people into voting for them.

I soundly reject that.



Democrats can choose now to show they're willing to practice what they preach.


Or they can wait until the next round to have a chance to get my vote. Maybe next time they'll be more willing to convince me that they mean what they say.You miss my point. At this point Sanders is tearing at our only hope to win a presidential election. He has become a spoiler for Democrats.

JVV
04-15-2016, 02:06 PM
You miss my point. At this point Sanders is tearing at our only hope to win a presidential election. He has become a spoiler for Democrats.



Until the Democrats decide to start practicing what they preach, they need spoilers.

Democrats could have chosen to make progress toward cutting the lobbyist apron strings, but instead the DNC rolled back lobbyist reforms instituted by Obama. That's a perfect symbol for what a Hillary presidency means.

Democrats are going in the wrong direction.

They need a spoiler.

AZ Jim
04-15-2016, 02:11 PM
Until the Democrats decide to start practicing what they preach, they need spoilers.

Democrats could have chosen to make progress toward cutting the lobbyist apron strings, but instead the DNC rolled back lobbyist reforms instituted by Obama. That's a perfect symbol for what a Hillary presidency means.

Democrats are going in the wrong direction.

They need a spoiler.As a friend I suggest to you that if you still intend to send money off to Bernie, you designate it to his retirement fund.

Quicksilver
04-15-2016, 02:12 PM
Until the Democrats decide to start practicing what they preach, they need spoilers.

Democrats could have chosen to make progress toward cutting the lobbyist apron strings, but instead the DNC rolled back lobbyist reforms instituted by Obama. That's a perfect symbol for what a Hillary presidency means.

Democrats are going in the wrong direction.

They need a spoiler.


Hello President TRUMP

AZ Jim
04-15-2016, 02:15 PM
Bernie "you kids get off my lawn" Sanders needs to kick it in.

JVV
04-15-2016, 02:24 PM
Hello President TRUMP


So?

If Democrats are going to consciously choose to move backwards, then they're inviting the possibility of President Trump. If they won't stand for something, then they stand for nothing.



One day, Democrats will hopefully decide to run on something more than, "We're not as bad as Republicans."

Until then ...

AZ Jim
04-15-2016, 02:36 PM
So?

If Democrats are going to consciously choose to move backwards, then they're inviting the possibility of President Trump. If they won't stand for something, then they stand for nothing.



One day, Democrats will hopefully decide to run on something more than, "We're not as bad as Republicans."

Until then ...It becomes more obvious with each of your posts, you are woefully uninformed. It's too late to fix that, stagger along in the darkness of ignorance.

Quicksilver
04-15-2016, 02:37 PM
So?

If Democrats are going to consciously choose to move backwards, then they're inviting the possibility of President Trump. If they won't stand for something, then they stand for nothing.



One day, Democrats will hopefully decide to run on something more than, "We're not as bad as Republicans."

Until then ...

That is absolute NONSENSE... Hillary Clinton is the BEST candidate in BOTH parties.. and by far the most experienced and ready to handle the job. She is going to win the nomination AND she is going to win the General.

Peter1469
04-15-2016, 02:40 PM
Hillary is a failure. The only reason she made it this far is because she has already been bought by the Establishment.

AZ Jim
04-15-2016, 02:40 PM
That is absolute NONSENSE... Hillary Clinton is the BEST candidate in BOTH parties.. and by far the most experienced and ready to handle the job. She is going to win the nomination AND she is going to win the General.Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you'll ruin his wet dream.

JVV
04-15-2016, 02:55 PM
That is absolute NONSENSE... Hillary Clinton is the BEST candidate in BOTH parties.. and by far the most experienced and ready to handle the job. She is going to win the nomination AND she is going to win the General.

She will almost certainly win the nomination.

She will almost certainly win the general.

She will almost certainly move the political center to the right, as her husband did, instead of to the left as Obama, Warren, Sanders, OWS, et al have been working on with considerable success.


And then Democrats will wake up in ten years and say, "oh gosh, how could we not realize how shortsighted this attempt to reclaim the middle was." Like they did with Bill, after it was too late to fix the repeal of Glass-Steagall or return the lives to the generations of African-Americans devastated by racially biased mass incarceration.

Ethereal
04-15-2016, 02:57 PM
...I'm sure it made you feel better.. like you are doing something...

Just like Clinton supporters.

Ethereal
04-15-2016, 03:01 PM
Idealism only works when tempered by realism. Sanders suckers please remit payment to me @conem.com.

Clinton supporters are undoubtedly the most arrogant, self-important idiots in America. They actually believe their support for Clinton, a war-mongering corporate puppet, will translate into something meaningful. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

Ethereal
04-15-2016, 03:03 PM
I used to like Sanders... I really did.. but he is wearing on my nerves with his constant whining and nasty accusations. Not to mention that he has shown he has a great message, but no real plan to carry it out.. Also he is woefully uninformed on foreign policy. That said though, he is infinitely better than any Republican and I will vote for him in a heartbeat if he by some miracle should win the nomination.

Sanders is uninformed on foreign policy?

Wow.

As opposed to Clinton, who has had a hand in every major foreign policy disaster of the past decade, including Iraq.

Just when I think Clinton supporters can't get any stupider, they prove me wrong.

Ethereal
04-15-2016, 03:06 PM
No. Realism=a way to actually pay for our dreams.

Laughable.

Democrats are the most fiscally irresponsible people in America. They are bankrupting virtually every city and state they govern. Stop pretending like you actually care about realistic fiscal policies. It's preposterous.

Ethereal
04-15-2016, 03:08 PM
Don't vote for the one chance we as Democrats have to retain, at the minimum a veto pen in the oval office. We must rescue America from common cause, if a Republican wins, we lose big time.

The last thing America needs is to be "rescued" by a bunch of pompous, self-important goons who are bankrupting dozens of cities and states across the country.

Ethereal
04-15-2016, 03:14 PM
You are CERTAIN she is beholden to bankers? Has there ever been an instance where that has affected her vote? Can you come up with an example? Bernie certainly couldn't when asked that same question in the debate. what you are buying into is Sanders smear job to win votes. He is casting aspersions with absolutely NO fact or proof.

She voted in favor of the Wall Street bailouts, duh. Have you been living under a rock or something?

And are you now saying that big money in politics is not a corrupting influence? Do you Clinton supporters actually have any discernible principles or do you just say whatever you think will get you closest to power and wealth?

Rhetorical question. Of course you don't have any principles.

Ethereal
04-15-2016, 03:17 PM
It becomes more obvious with each of your posts, you are woefully uninformed. It's too late to fix that, stagger along in the darkness of ignorance.

How incredibly, astoundingly, shockingly ironic of you.

Mac-7
04-15-2016, 03:28 PM
Sanders would utilize the power of the people to pressure legislators.

Equal to that in importance is that a Sanders win would signify to legislators that they needed to listen to the people. At the moment, people are less than gnats. Legislators' constituency is the lobbyists.

Hillary will cut the people out of the process -- again -- and be forced to give more to the Republicans than she would have to if she bothered to get the people on her side first.



I'm not youthful. I am jaded, because of Democrats like Hillary and Wasserman Schultz. Electing Bernie would show that Democrats actually mean what they say and would go a long way toward getting people to support a Democratic agenda, in opinion polls, in calls to legislators, and in midterm voting.

Electing Hillary means giving up on reaching for a higher bar. Means making the corporatists and the military industrial complex feel even more comfortable than they already feel.

The president is a very powerful position.

so sanders or trump or cruz could get stuff done if elected.

but none of them would get everything they want and no president ever has

Ethereal
04-15-2016, 03:29 PM
Since Clinton has been in government, AQ went from a few hundred people confined largely to the Tora Bora region in Afghanistan to thousands of members and affiliates spread across dozens of countries.

Virtually every country Clinton has supported intervention in - Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen - has turned into an AQ stronghold where chaos rules the day.

Hillary Clinton's record on foreign policy is so astoundingly bad that it's almost impossible to believe.

Even if Clinton were drawing her foreign policy decisions from a hat, she would have done better than her actual record.

AZ Jim
04-15-2016, 03:35 PM
Since Clinton has been in government, AQ went from a few hundred people confined largely to the Tora Bora region in Afghanistan to thousands of members and affiliates spread across dozens of countries.

Virtually every country Clinton has supported intervention in - Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen - has turned into an AQ stronghold where chaos rules the day.

Hillary Clinton's record on foreign policy is so astoundingly bad that it's almost impossible to believe.

Even if Clinton were drawing her foreign policy decisions from a hat, she would have done better than her actual record.Post after innate post you fruitlessly attempt to reflect an understanding of the issues. You have failed on all counts. Please salvage any shred of dignity you may have left and quit trying.

del
04-15-2016, 03:37 PM
Post after innate post you fruitlessly attempt to reflect an understanding of the issues. You have failed on all counts. Please salvage any shred of dignity you may have left and quit trying.

take your own advice

Ethereal
04-15-2016, 03:41 PM
Post after innate post you fruitlessly attempt to reflect an understanding of the issues. You have failed on all counts. Please salvage any shred of dignity you may have left and quit trying.

You cannot refute anything I said, so you just resort to the intellectual equivalent of saying "nuh-uh". Exactly the kind of dumbed down, asinine response I'd expect from a Clinton supporting goon.

But the facts are the facts.

Clinton's foreign policy record is beyond abysmal.

She supported intervention in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Yemen, and all of those countries are far worse off than they were before western intervention. Clinton's foreign policy record has aligned almost perfectly with the interests of America's enemies. She is an incompetent buffoon at best and an intentional traitor at worse.

Peter1469
04-15-2016, 04:34 PM
Post after innate post you fruitlessly attempt to reflect an understanding of the issues. You have failed on all counts. Please salvage any shred of dignity you may have left and quit trying.

Get the the logical part of your opposition to what he said.

You covered the ad hom attacks pretty completely.

Tahuyaman
04-16-2016, 12:06 AM
Bernie "you kids get off my lawn" Sanders needs to kick it in.


I still believe this guy is a clone if maineman.

Green Arrow
04-16-2016, 12:27 AM
I intend to send him more money too.

Mac-7
04-16-2016, 05:41 AM
All the libs should share part of their welfare check with bernie.

Quicksilver
04-16-2016, 06:19 AM
All the libs should share part of their welfare check with bernie.

Good Idea.... I guess I'll send him some of mine...