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Peter1469
04-19-2016, 05:55 PM
Bernie's Sweden isn't what he thinks (http://reason.com/archives/2016/04/18/bernies-rightamerica-should-be)

This is a long article written by a Swedish author in response to Sander's claim that he wants the US to be more like them. Long story short, Sweden's period of economic growth was from 1850-1950 where it became the 4th richest nation, per capita, in the world. That was with a limited government and free markets. In 1950 their tax burden was lower than any European nation as well as the US.

Then they started to regulate. Now it is the 14th richest country on the planet. And there was zero net job growth for over 20 years.

But starting in the 1990s Sweden began to pull back the regressive tax and economic policies and is now doing better. However the recent migrant crisis is taxing them greatly.


As late as 1950, total taxes as a percent of GDP in Denmark and Sweden were not just lower than in other European countries but lower than in the U.S.: 20 and 19 percent, respectively, vs. 24 percent in America.

It was at this point, when we Scandinavians had satisfied our thirst, that we thought that we could turn our backs to the well. We began to regulate. We increased taxes and beefed up the public sector. It's easy to see how foreigners observing the implementation of these unorthodox policies might confuse cause and effect. But those who think the semi-socialism made us rich would also probably look at a snapshot of Bill Gates and conclude that you become the world's wealthiest man by giving your money away.


Instead, the Scandinavian countries became a real life version of the old joke about how to make a small fortune; you start with a large one. Sweden took democratic socialist policies further than its neighbors, and as a result its economy fell more steeply. Slowly but steadily the policies of Prime Ministers Tage Erlander and Olof Palme eroded productivity and the long-renowned Scandinavian work ethic. In 1970, Sweden was 25 percent richer than the OECD average. Twenty years later, the average had almost caught up with us. Once the fourth richest country on the planet, Sweden was now the fourteenth.


It was a disaster for entrepreneurship and employment. During this time, not a single job was created in the private sector (on net), despite a growing population. As of 2000, just one of the 50 biggest Swedish companies had been founded after 1970.


As the Social Democratic finance minister Bosse Ringholm admitted in 2002: "If Sweden would have had the same growth rates as the OECD average since 1970, our common resources would have been so much bigger that it would be the equivalent of 20,000 SEK ($2,400) more per household per month."

Subdermal
04-20-2016, 09:21 AM
I don't have a thing to add to this topic that the article doesn't already address - but this topic needs to be kept at the top, to force the leftist mushbrain to confront the realities of the ideology which they cherish.

Face it, leftists. Face it; own it; begin to be disgusted by it, and then abandon it completely.

Subdermal
04-20-2016, 11:34 AM
Knock me over with a feather. Not one leftist attempts to touch this third rail of theirs, because leftists are wholly unwilling to challenge their preconceptions and ideology.

As I've said as a theme to my posts today: they don't care that their ideas are indefensible. They want them forced down our throats.

Take on this topic, leftists - if you're not truly the intellectual cowards I believe you to be.

What has happened in Sweden is a falsification of the hypothesis forwarded by Conservatives - free market supporters - from the start: socialism is nothing more than the desire to equalize outcomes, which sacrifices accomplishment in an attempt to increase the circumstances of the bottom.

What results, however, is equal misery for all, and a chronic entitlement class which never realizes its potential.

Captain Obvious
04-20-2016, 12:10 PM
The kool aid has already been drunk

Peter1469
04-20-2016, 04:42 PM
Many are too frighten to allow their world views to be challenged.

FindersKeepers
04-20-2016, 05:01 PM
This is a difficult issue for people to look at without getting upset -- one way or the other.

It's a nice idea to want to uplift those less fortunate, and I think it's a GOOD idea, as long as it's done privately and personally. When governments step in (at least in a large way) people get upset. Leftists, who typically are in favor of high taxation and redistribution of wealth, rarely help people in a personal way. I see this all the time. They defer to the government to do their charitable work for them. Conservatives are, by and large, more giving of themselves than Leftists are.

Leftists don't understand that we (United States) cannot fleece our own citizens to such a degree that those in third world nations will ever be free from poverty and oppression.

Whereas conservatives typically try to uplift the less fortunate in personal ways, which is often more effective, Leftists would rather drag the wealthy and successful down to the level of the poor and downtrodden to level the playing field.

Subdermal
04-20-2016, 05:01 PM
Hey Bo-4: how about you add your massive intellect to this topic here?

Oh. Wait...you did already.

Subdermal
04-20-2016, 05:32 PM
Yep.

We Conservatives address - head on - every issue. We are constantly testing our belief systems, and adjusting them as needed to ensure that we're correct and continue to fight for those things which are truly in society's best interest.

In this topic, we have a great opportunity to falsify the theory that socialism works; that higher taxes on the producers results in a more robust economy and society.

And no leftist is interested.

Is it that you're too stupid, or too dishonest? Which is it, liberals? Yes, you're being goaded.

Subdermal
04-20-2016, 05:39 PM
I ask readers to consider that Sweden is what Bernie thinks it is - because Bernie is a control freak.

Common Sense
04-20-2016, 05:41 PM
Look at the OP from a globalists perspective as the author does.

Bo-4
04-20-2016, 05:45 PM
Hey @Bo-4 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1297): how about you add your massive intellect to this topic here?

Oh. Wait...you did already.

How about you fuck the fuck off?

What a STOOPID flamebait!

Peter1469
04-20-2016, 06:21 PM
How about you fuck the fuck off?

What a STOOPID flamebait!

The OP is not flame bait. It is a very detailed description of the economic history of Sweden from 1850 until now.

del
04-20-2016, 06:26 PM
The OP is not flame bait. It is a very detailed description of the economic history of Sweden from 1850 until now.

no, it's an opinion piece by a cato fellow who happens to be swedish nd who mixes in some swedish economic history that bolsters his arguments.

it's neither very detailed nor objective.

honesty is the best policy, you know.

Peter1469
04-20-2016, 06:36 PM
no, it's an opinion piece by a cato fellow who happens to be swedish nd who mixes in some swedish economic history that bolsters his arguments.

it's neither very detailed nor objective.

honesty is the best policy, you know.

It isn't flame bait.

It has facts that can be countered if you can find counter-facts.

del
04-20-2016, 06:47 PM
It isn't flame bait.

It has facts that can be countered if you can find counter-facts.

i didn't say it was flame bait.

i said it wasn't a very detailed economic history of sweden, and that it is an opinion piece written by a swede who is a fellow at the cato institute.

those are facts as well.

Peter1469
04-20-2016, 07:10 PM
i didn't say it was flame bait.

i said it wasn't a very detailed economic history of sweden, and that it is an opinion piece written by a swede who is a fellow at the cato institute.

those are facts as well.

When I used the term detail I was working from a flame bait base-line.

del
04-20-2016, 07:43 PM
When I used the term detail I was working from a flame bait base-line.

of course

lol

Subdermal
04-20-2016, 09:18 PM
Well.

That was more substance than del or Bo usually contribute. What other leftist is going to dazzle us with their considerable intellect?

:facepalm: