If Trump beats Clinton we all lose

[AZ Jim]

Unless Sanders sees the writing on the wall soon and pulls out of the race, Trump could squeak out a win. Should that happen Sanders legacy will be that of Wallace ('68),Perot ('92) and Nader ('00), a spoiler. He will provide the death blow to the Democrats. He is a stubborn old coot so who knows. Republicans are in disarray so now is no time for a spoiler on the Democrat side.

[Subdermal]

Unless Sanders sees the writing on the wall soon and pulls out of the race, Trump could squeak out a win. Should that happen Sanders legacy will be that of Wallace ('68),Perot ('92) and Nader ('00), a spoiler. He will provide the death blow to the Democrats. He is a stubborn old coot so who knows. Republicans are in disarray so now is no time for a spoiler on the Democrat side.

It's funny that you cite disarray on the GOP side, while your topic is based upon disarray on the DEM side.

What, though, does Sanders deciding to leave the Dem race for the nomination have to do with Trump's chances to beat the nominee?

Only one of them faces Trump as the Dem nominee. You should have expounded on Bernie's possible decision to run 3rd party - yet no mention of it exists in your OP.

BTW: the only way I lose is if - in order - Bernie wins, or Hillary wins. Both raise my taxes; Bernie by a ton.

Trump has promised to lower them. There is nearly an 80K swing there, between what Bernie has promised, and what Trump has promised. Hillary is in the middle, promising a less severe increase.

Why should I support the Dems, with those promises? Obama's promises didn't net a healthier economic or social reality in the US, and Hillary is exclaiming the exact same things, while Bernie's plan will decimate productivity.

Bernie hates corruption, but Bernie pushes policy which ensures that the source of the corrupt's power - Government - continues to enormously grow.

That makes no sense to support at all. In fact, none of these candidates have expressed a desire to shrink the tumor which is Federal Government. Only Cruz has done so.

[Mac-7]

Unless Sanders sees the writing on the wall soon and pulls out of the race, Trump could squeak out a win. Should that happen Sanders legacy will be that of Wallace ('68),Perot ('92) and Nader ('00), a spoiler. He will provide the death blow to the Democrats. He is a stubborn old coot so who knows. Republicans are in disarray so now is no time for a spoiler on the Democrat side.

Many things can happen between now and november.

neither trump or clinton are sure to win or lose.

[Private Pickle]

LOL No....

[AZ Jim]

What does Sanders deciding to leave the Dem race for the nomination have to do with Trump's chances to beat the nominee?

Only one of them faces Trump as the Dem nominee. You should have expounded on Bernie's possible decision to run 3rd party - yet no mention of it exists in your OP. No. My post is as I intended it to be. Every campaign day that Sanders pings on the front runner is a day of doing harm to the issues the Clinton campaign is focusing upon. It provides fodder for the republican cannon. Sanders is probably not stupid enough to actually run third party.

[Quicksilver]

I used to think a whole lot more of Sanders.. and at one time considered supporting him. Now he has turned into a belligerent, lying Politician no better, in fact worse than those he rails against.

[MisterVeritis]

Unless Sanders sees the writing on the wall soon and pulls out of the race, Trump could squeak out a win. Should that happen Sanders legacy will be that of Wallace ('68),Perot ('92) and Nader ('00), a spoiler. He will provide the death blow to the Democrats. He is a stubborn old coot so who knows. Republicans are in disarray so now is no time for a spoiler on the Democrat side.
Are you soliciting for Sanders contributions?

[hanger4]

I used to think a whole lot more of Sanders.. and at one time considered supporting him. Now he has turned into a belligerent, lying Politician no better, in fact worse than those he rails against.

"Now he has turned into a belligerent, lying Politician"

LOL......and Hillary Clinton is as pure as the driven snow.......LOL

Y'all crack me up.

[Quicksilver]

No. My post is as I intended it to be. Every campaign day that Sanders pings on the front runner is a day of doing harm to the issues the Clinton campaign is focusing upon. It provides fodder for the republican cannon. Sanders is probably not stupid enough to actually run third party.

He won't.. He knows how devastating a Republican president would be to the country. But I agree... NOW he needs to STFU.. and get out of the race.. He needs to concentrate how he is going to bring his supporters over to Clinton now after the stupid a$$ damage he has done with his nonsense.

[AZ Jim]

Are you soliciting for Sanders contributions?I suppose there is in your mind a logical reason for what I see as a stupid question.

[Quicksilver]

"Now he has turned into a belligerent, lying Politician"

LOL......and Hillary Clinton is as pure as the driven snow.......LOL

Y'all crack me up.

Actually she is.. but the GOP is trying it's best to invent stuff.

[hanger4]

Actually she is.. but the GOP is trying it's best to invent stuff.

OMG I don't believe you actually said this "Actually she is".

You want a list of HC's lies ?? or would you rather just ignore them ??

[Quicksilver]

OMG I don't believe you actually said this "Actually she is".

You want a list of HC's lies ?? or would you rather just ignore them ??


Anything that has been PROVEN.. would do.. Not just ridiculous conjecture.

[AZ Jim]

OMG I don't believe you actually said this "Actually she is".

You want a list of HC's lies ?? or would you rather just ignore them ??You mean your idea of her "lies"? No thanks.

[Crepitus]

Bernie Sanders is the only honest person in the race, one of very few honest people in Washington in fact. I hope he stays till the very end, win or lose, and if he loses the nomination I hope he runs third party. I for one would relish the chance to vote for someone who is neither the douche nor the turd sandwich for a change.

[Crepitus]

He won't.. He knows how devastating a Republican president would be to the country. But I agree... NOW he needs to STFU.. and get out of the race.. He needs to concentrate how he is going to bring his supporters over to Clinton now after the stupid a$$ damage he has done with his nonsense.
Since when is giving your honest opinion and expounding on your beliefs "damage"?

[hanger4]

Anything that has been PROVEN.. would do.. Not just ridiculous conjecture.


You mean your idea of her "lies"? No thanks.

Seriously ?? are you two fer real ??

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/false/

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/pants-fire/

Un-fricken-believable

[Subdermal]

Bernie Sanders is the only honest person in the race, one of very few honest people in Washington in fact. I hope he stays till the very end, win or lose, and if he loses the nomination I hope he runs third party. I for one would relish the chance to vote for someone who is neither the douche nor the turd sandwich for a change.

I will not vote for someone who honestly is going to take tens of thousands of dollars from me per year to support an idiotic Utopian notion which totally contradicts human nature.

We've done that for decades and it is has gotten us further from ideal; not closer.

[Subdermal]

You Progressives think your ideas are new. They're not. You're the same voices that objected to the Constitution when it was written.

[AZ Jim]

You Progressives think your ideas are new. They're not. You're the same voices that objected to the Constitution when it was written.You were there?

[Cigar]

Unless Sanders sees the writing on the wall soon and pulls out of the race, Trump could squeak out a win. Should that happen Sanders legacy will be that of Wallace ('68),Perot ('92) and Nader ('00), a spoiler. He will provide the death blow to the Democrats. He is a stubborn old coot so who knows. Republicans are in disarray so now is no time for a spoiler on the Democrat side.


None of this matters, we all know and have seen first hand, if The Republicans don't get their way, nothing get's done anyway.

[Quicksilver]

None of this matters, we all know and have seen first hand, if The Republicans don't get their way, nothing get's done anyway.


But if they win the White House... kiss this country good bye..

[Safety]

You were there?

It was on pay-per-view.

[Cigar]

But if they win the White House... kiss this country good bye..


The only way they're ever getting back into the Oval Office is with a Tour Ticket. :laugh:

[Quicksilver]

The only way they're ever getting back into the Oval Office is with a Tour Ticket. :laugh:

Well, I certainly hope you are right. Clinton is no doubt been damaged, not only by the constant drum beat of the GOP smear machine bringing up one baseless accusation after another.. but NOW by Sanders and his desperate nonsense? Then she has to face TRUMP who is really great at personal attacks and simply doesn't care what he says. That COULD help her as the General Electorate is far different that the goofy base that loves him and that nasty talk.. .. AND he has the lowest favorability of any candidate.. but who knows.. It's certainly going to be interesting.

[MisterVeritis]

I suppose there is in your mind a logical reason for what I see as a stupid question.
If keeping Sanders in the race damages Hillary Rotten Clinton shouldn't we be contributing to his campaign?

[AZ Jim]

If keeping Sanders in the race damages Hillary Rotten Clinton shouldn't we be contributing to his campaign?Throw you money away, sucker.

[MisterVeritis]

Throw you money away, sucker.
I would be supporting Trump with my contribution to Sanders. I am warming to the idea.

[maineman]

It's an interesting calculus for Hillary. She needs to pivot toward the center, certainly.... but she also needs to hang around on the left for a while and try to get the Bernie army a little bit more comfortable with her before she does. I certainly think that Trump gives her some wiggle room because the middle - moderate republicans and independents - will be looking for any reason to vote against Trump, imo.

[Green Arrow]

Wow, you Hillary sycophants are already trying to blame Sanders for Clinton's loss to the worst Republican presidential candidate in American history. That is pretty sad.

[birddog]

But if they win the White House... kiss this country good bye..

That is way more likely if you dims win, and that won't happen. If Hillary wins, we may get three more liberal SCOTUS judges. Then, this country may never recover.

[Mac-7]

He won't.. He knows how devastating a Republican president would be to the country. But I agree... NOW he needs to STFU.. and get out of the race.. He needs to concentrate how he is going to bring his supporters over to Clinton now after the stupid a$$ damage he has done with his nonsense.

Could the divide between left and right in America possibly be any greater?

conservatives would say exactly the same thing about hillary being elected as you just expressed for a republican president.

its like looking in a mirror.

Now I know the moderates posting here who listen to NPR and claim to be so much smarter than the rest of us will chime in to say what the country needs is COMPROMISE!

"Its compromise ah say."

But the self proclaimed superior class straddling the middle of the road are not enough to win an election.

and besides their ideas only look good to them and no one else.

[Peter1469]

If Clinton wins we all lose.

[Common Sense]

If Trump wins you become an international laughing stock.

[Mac-7]

If Clinton wins we all lose.

Not according to 40% of the voters

[Mac-7]

If Trump wins you become an international laughing stock.

I thought the America hating foreigners would be hopping mad not laughing.

[del]

Unless Sanders sees the writing on the wall soon and pulls out of the race, Trump could squeak out a win. Should that happen Sanders legacy will be that of Wallace ('68),Perot ('92) and Nader ('00), a spoiler. He will provide the death blow to the Democrats. He is a stubborn old coot so who knows. Republicans are in disarray so now is no time for a spoiler on the Democrat side.

fuck clinton

even trump is more honest than she is

[Common Sense]

I thought the America hating foreigners would be hopping mad not laughing.

What America haters?

Trust me, the foreigners you hate so much (because you've probably never met one) would be mocking the US if it was naive enough to elect a charlatan. It would be very hard to take the US seriously anymore.

[del]

I used to think a whole lot more of Sanders.. and at one time considered supporting him. Now he has turned into a belligerent, lying Politician no better, in fact worse than those he rails against.

that's nice, honey

[del]

He won't.. He knows how devastating a Republican president would be to the country. But I agree... NOW he needs to STFU.. and get out of the race.. He needs to concentrate how he is going to bring his supporters over to Clinton now after the stupid a$$ damage he has done with his nonsense.

got news for you

there's nothing he can say that will bring most of us to vote for that lying harridan

nothing

[del]

Anything that has been PROVEN.. would do.. Not just ridiculous conjecture.

remember the time the sniper shot at her?

nobody else does

:rofl:

remember how her mother named her after sir edmund hillary because he climbed mt everest.........5 years after she was born

you hacks have swallowed so much koolaid, you must have handles and spouts

[Mac-7]

What America haters?

you for instance.

You arent under oath so you dont have to tell the truth here.

But the America that you wouldnt hate does not exist - yet.



Trust me, the foreigners you hate so much (because you've probably never met one) would be mocking the US if it was naive enough to elect a charlatan. It would be very hard to take the US seriously anymore.

Like obumer who is half foreign himself they meaning obumer and international leftists hated me before I hated them.

[Common Sense]

you for instance.

You srent under oath so you dont have to tell the truth here.

But the America that you wouldnt hate does not exist - yet.



Like obumer who is half foreign himself they meaning obumer and international leftists hated me before I hated them.

I don't hate America or Americans.

[Mac-7]

I don't hate America or Americans.

Maybe slightly less now after 7 years of obumer and your hopes for another democrat after him.

[Common Sense]

Maybe slightly less now after 7 years of obumer and your hopes for another democrat after him.

As usual, you have no idea as to what you are talking about.

[The Xl]

Clinton would be considerably worse than Trump.

[MisterVeritis]

Wow, you Hillary sycophants are already trying to blame Sanders for Clinton's loss to the worst Republican presidential candidate in American history. That is pretty sad.
I like it!

[JVV]

Unless Sanders sees the writing on the wall soon and pulls out of the race, Trump could squeak out a win. Should that happen Sanders legacy will be that of Wallace ('68),Perot ('92) and Nader ('00), a spoiler. He will provide the death blow to the Democrats. He is a stubborn old coot so who knows. Republicans are in disarray so now is no time for a spoiler on the Democrat side.


If Trump beats Clinton, it is the Democrats' fault for running someone with as high of unfavorables as Clinton.

Democrats knew how disliked she was outside their tiny 30% sliver of the population, and still chose her.

It's your fault. Not Bernie's. Not mine. Yours.



You picked her. You thought it would be enough to say, "Well, she hasn't actually been convicted of anything," or "Well, she's better than the Republican". You thought those were good enough slogans for a presidential campaign. If she loses it's on you.


Full stop.

[nic34]

Sanders is probably not stupid enough to actually run third party.

If Trump does, Sanders should. Then y'all will have the multiple choices you always wanted. Let 'em split both parties up!

[Common Sense]

I have mixed feelings about Clinton. She certainly wouldn't be my first choice. That being said, I think she will offer a stability that Trump and Sanders could not.

I still think she's the next POTUS.

[MisterVeritis]

If Trump wins you become an international laughing stock.
Those who laugh shall have to pay for their own defense.

[Peter1469]

If Trump wins you become an international laughing stock.


The Establishment controls much of Europe. Of course they will spread an anti-Trump message. They will likely attempt to take his life.

[Common Sense]

The Establishment controls much of Europe. Of course they will spread an anti-Trump message. They will likely attempt to take his life.

That's a bit of a stretch.

The four years would be funny and yet tragic to watch though...

[Peter1469]

I have mixed feelings about Clinton. She certainly wouldn't be my first choice. That being said, I think she will offer a stability that Trump and Sanders could not.

I still think she's the next POTUS.

She will do as the Establishment asks. Just as the presidents before her.

[Peter1469]

That's a bit of a stretch.

The four years would be funny and yet tragic to watch though...

I am not so sure. At the intentional level personalities matter much less than national power and the real constraints on that power. Events tend to dictate courses of action in broad terms.

[valley ranch]

I have mixed feelings about Clinton, I can't decide if she would be the worst thing to happen to America or if she already is.


http://rs247.pbsrc.com/albums/gg125/Run_4_the_money/Hillary Clinton/120912hillaryclinton-300x250.jpg~c200
(http://media.photobucket.com/user/Run_4_the_money/media/Hillary Clinton/120912hillaryclinton-300x250.jpg.html?filters[term]=bill clinton monica lewinsky&filters[primary]=images&filters[secondary]=videos&sort=1&o=741)

[Mac-7]

Those who laugh shall have to pay for their own defense.

Well said.

but after the islamo nazis take over europe there will probably be a military buildup anyway.

[Tahuyaman]

If Trump beats Clinton we all lose
If either one is elected president, it's going to be a disaster. Which one will be worse? Flip a coin.

[JVV]

If Trump beats Clinton we all lose


If either one is elected president, it's going to be a disaster. Which one will be worse? Flip a coin.


Neither one will be a disaster.

The nation will continue trudging along with either one.

[Crepitus]

Wow, you Hillary sycophants are already trying to blame Sanders for Clinton's loss to the worst Republican presidential candidate in American history. That is pretty sad.
That would be absolutely hilarious if it wasn't true.

[Peter1469]

Neither one will be a disaster.

The nation will continue trudging along with either one.

What about the debt and deficit?

[Tahuyaman]

Neither one will be a disaster.

The nation will continue trudging along with either one.

sure the nation would survive, but both woukd cause seious problems which could easily have been avoided.

we shouldn't be settling for just "trudging along".

[Mac-7]

sure the nation would survive, but both woukd cause seious problems which could easily have been avoided.

we shouldn't be settling for just "trudging along".

Easily avoided how?

[Tahuyaman]

Easily avoided how?

Neither one will do anything to get a handle on the debt. They both will support this stupid idea that we can tax and spend our way out of debt. Neither one will do what needs to be done to create a robust and growing economy.

Neither one will do anything to discourage the expansion of the dependent class.

Both will be a foreign policy nightmare. Possibly worse than the incompetent knucklehead we have now.

[Mac-7]

Neither one will do anything to get a handle on the debt. They both will support this stupid idea that we can tax and spend our way out of debt. Neither one will do what needs to be done to create a robust and growing economy.

Neither one will do anything to discourage the expansion of the dependent class.

Both will be a foreign policy nightmare. Possibly worse than the incompetent knucklehead we have now.

You said easily avoided.

How?

Hillary is being give the nomination by the democrat party establishment

And the signature trump issues are attracting a majority of republican voters over the objection of the repub establishment.

neither of those two outcomes look easily avoided to me

[Tahuyaman]

You said easily avoided.

How?

Hillary is being give the nomination by the democrat party establishment

And the signature trump issues are attracting a majority of republican voters over the objection of the repub establishment.

neither of those two outcomes look easily avoided to me

Eliminate or reduce the corporate tax rate to make it the lowest in the industrialized world instead of the highest. Eliminate the income tax.

Remove the federal government from the administration of local school districts.

Stop getting involved in foreign matters which do not have any remote connection to our national interests or security.

Put real limitations upon the length of time someone can collect welfare. Do not allow and encourage generations after generation to be dependent upon government.

Just for starters.

Neither Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump woukd have the guts to do any of those things.

[MisterVeritis]

Eliminate or reduce the corporate tax rate to make it the lowest in the industrialized world instead of the highest. Eliminate the income tax.

Remove the federal government from the administration of local school districts.

Stop getting involved in foreign matters which do not have any remote connection to our national interests or security.

Put real limitations upon the length of time someone can collect welfare. Do not allow and encourage generations after generation to be dependent upon government.

Just for starters.

Neither Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump would have the guts to do any of those things.
Which of your salad of options are "easy"?

[Tahuyaman]

Which of your salad of options are "easy"?

All of them. Tell me why I'm wrong

[MisterVeritis]

All of them. Tell me why I'm wrong
LOL. None of them are easy. Had they been easy someone would have already done them. Nice try.

[The Sage of Main Street]

I thought the America hating foreigners would be hopping mad not laughing. Get out of the UN, NATO, WTO, NAFTA, etc. But don't be isolationist, be freelance.

[Tahuyaman]

LOL. None of them are easy. Had they been easy someone would have already done them. Nice try.


We have declined so far that things which are easy, are now difficult.

[The Sage of Main Street]

Neither one will be a disaster.

The nation will continue trudging along with either one. That's what the Romans kept telling themselves as their civilization slowly developed stress fractures and suddenly became rubble. One glaring statistic: at its peak, the city of Rome had one million people; during the Dark Ages it had 20,000.

[domer76]

Unless Sanders sees the writing on the wall soon and pulls out of the race, Trump could squeak out a win. Should that happen Sanders legacy will be that of Wallace ('68),Perot ('92) and Nader ('00), a spoiler. He will provide the death blow to the Democrats. He is a stubborn old coot so who knows. Republicans are in disarray so now is no time for a spoiler on the Democrat side.

Not to worry. Ain't gonna happen

[FindersKeepers]

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/13062252_10156896364235515_2293398469442025055_n.p ng?oh=b52331f77f19210a503e8f0769d6119b&oe=57A92EBC

[Peter1469]

That is disturbing.... :shocked:

[donttread]

Unless Sanders sees the writing on the wall soon and pulls out of the race, Trump could squeak out a win. Should that happen Sanders legacy will be that of Wallace ('68),Perot ('92) and Nader ('00), a spoiler. He will provide the death blow to the Democrats. He is a stubborn old coot so who knows. Republicans are in disarray so now is no time for a spoiler on the Democrat side.

Trust me , with the election over half a year away: We have already lost

[TrueBlue]

Unless Sanders sees the writing on the wall soon and pulls out of the race, Trump could squeak out a win. Should that happen Sanders legacy will be that of Wallace ('68),Perot ('92) and Nader ('00), a spoiler. He will provide the death blow to the Democrats. He is a stubborn old coot so who knows. Republicans are in disarray so now is no time for a spoiler on the Democrat side.
That's exactly the message I am trying to hammer to Democrats who need to start thinking real clearly now and forget about that Independent turned Democrat just so he could be a spoiler. But not to worry, Trump stands absolutely no chance over Hillary. She would sweep carpet with him and end up polishing the furniture with him after its all over.

[del]

That's exactly the message I am trying to hammer to Democrats who need to start thinking real clearly now and forget about that Independent turned Democrat just so he could be a spoiler. But not to worry, Trump stands absolutely no chance over Hillary. She would sweep carpet with him and end up polishing the furniture with him after its all over.



you misspelled munch

[Ethereal]

If Trump beats Clinton, then maybe the next time Democrats will put up someone that isn't repellent to most Americans.

But Trump, if he's elected, will be largely a figurehead, just like most Presidents. He will still have to contend with the Congress, the courts, and the state and local governments. His agenda will get watered down substantially as a result.

[TrueBlue]

If Clinton wins we all lose.
Gleefully, what we'd lose is the immediate threat that Trump could have won.

[Mac-7]

If Trump beats Clinton, then maybe the next time Democrats will put up someone that isn't repellent to most Americans.

But Trump, if he's elected, will be largely a figurehead, just like most Presidents. He will still have to contend with the Congress, the courts, and the state and local governments. His agenda will get watered down substantially as a result.

Congress is proving to be no roadblock to a strong willed white house.

[donttread]

That's exactly the message I am trying to hammer to Democrats who need to start thinking real clearly now and forget about that Independent turned Democrat just so he could be a spoiler. But not to worry, Trump stands absolutely no chance over Hillary. She would sweep carpet with him and end up polishing the furniture with him after its all over.


The old " a vote for the candidate I like takes a vote away from the donkephant bullshit?" Didn't see that coming from you

[Ethereal]

Congress is proving to be no roadblock to a strong willed white house.

That's why state and local governments are the most important repository of sovereign power.