Let's talk about "conservatism"

[AZ Jim]

The acknowledged father of modern conservatism is Barry Goldwater. Here are some of his verbatim quotes:

"I am a conservative Republican, but I believe in democracy and the separation of church and state. The conservative movement is founded on the simple tenet that people have the right to live life as they please as long as they don’t hurt anyone else in the process."




"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right."
"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass."
"A woman has a right to an abortion."

Goldwater, an Episcopalian, had theological differences with greedy TV preachers. "I look at these religious television shows," he said, "and they are raising big money on God. One million, three million, five million – they brag about it. I don't believe in that. It's not a very religious thing to do."

Barry M. Goldwater (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/369997.Barry_M_Goldwater) > Quotes (http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/369997.Barry_M_Goldwater) > Quotable Quote


“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”


Now, GOPers, listen or don't but Barry Goldwater was a smart man. He was a true CONSERVATIVE not the paperassed punks of today. THINK ABOUT IT!!

Links? Go to google, it will open your eyes.

[del]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/17/article-2326147-19D4DEB9000005DC-488_634x792.jpg

[AZ Jim]

del, that makes as much sense in context as you usually do..

[AZ Jim]

I guess you GOP "conservatives" don't care to discuss this......what a surprise.

[Chris]

Why do you put GOP together with conservative? There's little connection.


Modern conservatism has it roots in the 1950's with the rise of the New Conservative in reaction to the New Deal. FDR had hijacked the label liberal. This was William Buckley, Russel Kirk and other ex-liberals. This was also about the time other liberals, classical liberals, started calling themselves libertarians. A second wave of Neoconservatives arose in the 60s who were ex-liberals, ex-Communists, ex-Trotskyists who were still liberal domestically but wanted to see the US play a bigger role on the world stage fighting the communist threat. It was about that time that the more libertarian than conservative Goldwater ran for President and lost but set the stage for Reagan. His The Conscience of a Conservative was a big influence on me.

Goldwater was pro-gay rights. He was also pro-civil rights for blacks. But while he was against the government discriminating against people, he was against it telling private business what it could and couldn't do in that regard.

Goldwater also said "To disagree, one doesn't have to be disagreeable."

[Peter1469]

Goldwater was a solid conservative. I don't agree with everything he said or everything he feared.

[valley ranch]

Are you/we sure he said all he is quoted as saying?

[Safety]

Are you/we sure he said all he is quoted as saying?

Like Johnson?

[AZ Jim]

You need to think about it.

[del]

@del (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=770), that makes as much sense in context as you usually do..

your obsession with religion is noted.

here's a list of people who care:

[AZ Jim]

your obsession with religion is noted.

here's a list of people who care:In in other words, DUH...............

[del]

In in other words, DUH...............

yes, that's what most of your posts boil down to, but hang in there, corky.

we're all pulling for you

[Chris]

Are you/we sure he said all he is quoted as saying?

"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right." comes from the afterword of The Conscience of a Conservative. See https://books.google.com/books?id=EUEc9YvmnvoC&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=%22I+don%27t+have+any+respect+for+the+Religious +Right.%22&source=bl&ots=2jxQya_f5g&sig=mo-zva7MbhbUdGxcg83peRKFisA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBqp6Su7zMAhWJ6CYKHXXAA7QQ6AEIJzAD#v=on epage&q=%22I%20don't%20have%20any%20respect%20for%20the% 20Religious%20Right.%22&f=false


So does "Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass." See https://books.google.com/books?id=EUEc9YvmnvoC&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq=%22Every+good+Christian+should+line+up+and+kick +Jerry+Falwell%27s+ass.%22&source=bl&ots=2jxQya-67m&sig=RoX6fskO4eo-gQ8UiFOk5fMtRCU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPmZnOu7zMAhWK6SYKHYpQABIQ6AEILTAD#v=on epage&q=%22Every%20good%20Christian%20should%20line%20up %20and%20kick%20Jerry%20Falwell's%20ass.%22&f=false


"A woman has a right to an abortion." I find attributed to him but not in any meaningful context. And the source cited in the OP doesn't show this.


Goldwater didn't much like the Religious Right, especially Falwell.


On gays in the military, he said "You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight" and he wrote Ban on Gays is Senseless Attempt to Stall the Inevitable (https://web.archive.org/web/20121021062721/http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/scotts/bulgarians/barry-goldwater.html).


These are from https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

"Those who seek absolute power, even though they seek it to do what they regard as good, are simply demanding the right to enforce their own version of heaven on earth. And let me remind you, they are the very ones who always create the most hellish tyrannies. Absolute power does corrupt, and those who seek it must be suspect and must be opposed. Their mistaken course stems from false notions of equality, ladies and gentlemen. Equality, rightly understood, as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences. Wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism."

"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution, or that have failed their purpose, or that impose on the people an unwarranted financial burden. I will not attempt to discover whether legislation is "needed" before I have first determined whether it is constitutionally permissible. And if I should later be attacked for neglecting my constituents' "interests," I shall reply that I was informed that their main interest is liberty and that in that cause I am doing the very best I can."


Greatest President we never had. :D

[hanger4]

I guess you GOP "conservatives" don't care to discuss this......what a surprise.

^^^ this is kind a funny ^^^

Whines in 5min about those not willing to discuss, yet when posters start discussion AZ Jim is no where to be found.

:grin:

[Mister D]

The acknowledged father of modern conservatism is Barry Goldwater. Here are some of his verbatim quotes:

"I am a conservative Republican, but I believe in democracy and the separation of church and state. The conservative movement is founded on the simple tenet that people have the right to live life as they please as long as they don’t hurt anyone else in the process."



"I don't have any respect for the Religious Right."
"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass."
"A woman has a right to an abortion."

Goldwater, an Episcopalian, had theological differences with greedy TV preachers. "I look at these religious television shows," he said, "and they are raising big money on God. One million, three million, five million – they brag about it. I don't believe in that. It's not a very religious thing to do."

Barry M. Goldwater (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/369997.Barry_M_Goldwater) > Quotes (http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/369997.Barry_M_Goldwater) > Quotable Quote


“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”


Now, GOPers, listen or don't but Barry Goldwater was a smart man. He was a true CONSERVATIVE not the paperassed punks of today. THINK ABOUT IT!!

Links? Go to google, it will open your eyes.

Among whom is Barry Goldwater acknowledged as such?

[valley ranch]

I remember Goldwater, he seemed really a decent guy.

[Common]

I guess you GOP "conservatives" don't care to discuss this......what a surprise.

The gop and conservatives are two different things. I was a republican for decades who got turned off by the far right and went independent. I am not a conservative and never was in the context of their values and agenda. I am of the opinion they are of the rich and foremost for the rich.

[Common]

I remember Goldwater, he seemed really a decent guy.

Goldwater ran for president in 1964 and lost HUGELY to Lyndon Johnson, the country was very much democrat tuned because of Kennedy he was wildly popular of course before his asassination. He didnt stand a chance

[Chris]

I remember Goldwater, he seemed really a decent guy.

He was. If not for him there likely would have been no Reagan Era.

[del]

He was. If not for him there likely would have been no Reagan Era.

i don't hold that against him.

[AZ Jim]

An interesting read about Barry Goldwater including information about his abortion stand. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/theres-something-about-barry/

[Chris]

An interesting read about Barry Goldwater including information about his abortion. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/theres-something-about-barry/


But by the early ’90s, there could be no doubt: Goldwater damned the Religious Right at every opportunity, spoke out for abortion rights, and not only supported letting gays serve openly in the military, but even lent his name to an effort to pass federal antidiscrimination laws for homosexuals—quite a turnabout for a man who as a senator had once stood on federalist grounds against the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Goldwater’s death in May 1998 rendered all of that moot. Whatever his heterodoxies, his place in conservative history, and conservatives’ hearts, was settled. He was still, as Pat Buchanan wrote at the time, “the father of us all.”