Told you so: Here's the answer to the abortion problem, folks

[OGIS]

Article says that the only reason they stopped at 13 days was that the current legal limit is 14 days. IOW, the fetus was viable.

So, we solve the abortion problem this way:
1) Ban abortion.
2) If the woman does not have the wherewithal, the state pays for the decanting of the fetus from womb to artificial womb, and subsequent care.
3) No lives are lost.
4) Good, conservative Christian families can adopt the newly born "test tube" babies and give them loving homes.



Scientists smash record for human embryos grown in the lab in revolutionary breakthrough

Human embryo survives outside the womb for 13 days – about twice the previous record – heralding a new dawn in scientists' understanding of how life begins but triggering a fresh ethical debate

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/human-embryos-grown-lab-test-tube-ivf-fertility-genetic-diseases-disability-medical-ethics-a7013656.html

[leekohler2]

They murdered a baby! :rollseyes:

[Chris]

It's a moral problem, not an abortion problem.

[Private Pickle]

Article says that the only reason they stopped at 13 days was that the current legal limit is 14 days. IOW, the fetus was viable.

So, we solve the abortion problem this way:
1) Ban abortion.
2) If the woman does not have the wherewithal, the state pays for the decanting of the fetus from womb to artificial womb, and subsequent care.
3) No lives are lost.
4) Good, conservative Christian families can adopt the newly born "test tube" babies and give them loving homes.

Count me out.

[Private Pickle]

It's a moral problem, not an abortion problem.

It's your moral problem. ;)

[Chris]

It's your moral problem. ;)

As a member of society, yes, it is. Yours, too.

No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee. -John Donne

[Private Pickle]

As a member of society, yes, it is. Yours, too.

Nope. Not mine.


No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee. -John Donne

Society's current moral mood happens to agree with me.

[donttread]

They murdered a baby! :rollseyes:

It would seem so.

[OGIS]

It's a moral problem, not an abortion problem.

Any system of morality that does not hold human survival as an end result - a morality system that subverts/denies human nature - is actually not a viable morality for living. Whether you know it or not, women have been figuring out how to do abortions for thousands of years. Unless your standard of morality is blind obedience to a boogaloo invisible spy pixie who hands down random edicts (that are curiously always male-dominant in advantage), then a behavior that a significant portion of half of the species engages in for their survival is actually not immoral. And what is more "private property" than your own body?

[Chris]

Nope. Not mine.

[I]

Society's current moral mood happens to agree with me.



Moods are not morality.

[OGIS]

Count me out.

Fine. You gonna help support the kid until he's old enough to hold a job?

Didn't think so.

[Private Pickle]

Moods are not morality.

That's exactly what they are.

[Private Pickle]

Fine. You gonna help support the kid until he's old enough to hold a job?

Didn't think so.

That's what I just said. Count me out of paying for anyone's unwanted fetus...

[Chris]

Any system of morality that does not hold human survival as an end result - a morality system that subverts/denies human nature - is actually not a viable morality for living. Whether you know it or not, women have been figuring out how to do abortions for thousands of years. Unless your standard of morality is blind obedience to a boogaloo invisible spy pixie who hands down random edicts (that are curiously always male-dominant in advantage), then a behavior that a significant portion of half of the species engages in for their survival is actually not immoral. And what is more "private property" than your own body?

Two problems with your premise.

One, soldiers, police, firefighters, and others who sacrifice life for others. Altruism often goes beyond survival.

Two, the unborn baby is a living human being as well. What of its survival?

[OGIS]

Moods are not morality.

Lol, yeah you go mansplain that to the poor young things, helplessly in the grip of their emotions.

Lord!

[del]

proverbs 26:11 always comes to mind when abortion is the topic

woof

[Private Pickle]

proverbs 26:11 always comes to mind when abortion is the topic

woof

Whose he?

[del]

he's no one's

[Doublejack]

The issue has never been about the sanctity of life, nor about money. Just two sides stomping feet and garnering votes.

[Chris]

The issue has never been about the sanctity of life, nor about money. Just two sides stomping feet and garnering votes.

You mean sort of like the climate change debate?

[Doublejack]

You mean sort of like the climate change debate?

Pretty much.

[Mac-7]

Pretty much.

At least as far as the liberal tree huggers are concerned who profit from the man-made global warning hoax.

For the rest of us we are trying to prevent liberals from destroying the economy and our standard of living along with it

[Doublejack]

http://i.imgur.com/up6yu.jpg
At least as far as the liberal tree huggers are concerned who profit from the man-made global warning hoax.

For the rest of us we are trying to prevent liberals from destroying the economy and our standard of living along with it

[Chris]

http://i.imgur.com/up6yu.jpg

Maybe the babies can teach their parents well...

https://i.snag.gy/NmdqcL.jpg

[Peter1469]

Fine. You gonna help support the kid until he's old enough to hold a job?

Didn't think so.

Do we get to kill losers who won't get a job too? Same same.

[Mister D]

Any system of morality that does not hold human survival as an end result - a morality system that subverts/denies human nature - is actually not a viable morality for living. Whether you know it or not, women have been figuring out how to do abortions for thousands of years. Unless your standard of morality is blind obedience to a boogaloo invisible spy pixie who hands down random edicts (that are curiously always male-dominant in advantage), then a behavior that a significant portion of half of the species engages in for their survival is actually not immoral. And what is more "private property" than your own body?

Ayn Rand was a self-absorbed cretin. Please stop parroting her nonsense. You don't even understand what she was actually saying.

[Cthulhu]

Article says that the only reason they stopped at 13 days was that the current legal limit is 14 days. IOW, the fetus was viable.

So, we solve the abortion problem this way:
1) Ban abortion.
2) If the woman does not have the wherewithal, the state pays for the decanting of the fetus from womb to artificial womb, and subsequent care.
3) No lives are lost.
4) Good, conservative Christian families can adopt the newly born "test tube" babies and give them loving homes.
No. To all four.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

[OGIS]

That's what I just said. Count me out of paying for anyone's unwanted fetus...

And yet you would force them to carry that fetus? And then raise it in poverty?

[OGIS]

Ayn Rand was a self-absorbed cretin. Please stop parroting her nonsense. You don't even understand what she was actually saying.

Sorry to disagree with your massive expertise in all things, but I'm pretty sure that my background and education, and the people I've known and mentored with, give me a better understanding of Rand, her ideas, and her philosophical triumphs and failures than you. We'll just leave it at that; I don't feel like playing the IPTG (Internet Philosophy Tough Guy) card. And I really don't feel I need to prove anything to a pretentious and condescending jacka55 who has yet, as far as I can see, to post anything that (1) doesn't include at least one veiled put-down of someone, and (2) actually contributes something of substance to the knowledge-base of this forum.

[Private Pickle]

And yet you would force them to carry that fetus? And then raise it in poverty?

Wut? No. They want to abort that thing legally then that is their call.

[OGIS]

Wut? No. They want to abort that thing legally then that is their call.

Oh, sorry. Thought you were one of these "no abortions under any circumstances" types.

[OGIS]

Do we get to kill losers who won't get a job too? Same same.

I'm sure that would excite you. You could wear your armband.

[Chris]

Oh, sorry. Thought you were one of these "no abortions under any circumstances" types.


I'm sure that would excite you. You could wear your armband.


Is that how you work, miscategorize people and then attack the category?

[Chris]

Ayn Rand was a self-absorbed cretin. Please stop parroting her nonsense. You don't even understand what she was actually saying.

Right, he's no Ayn Rand.

[Private Pickle]

Oh, sorry. Thought you were one of these "no abortions under any circumstances" types.

I'm comfortable with the current laws in place.

[Bo-4]

I wasn't aware there was any "abortion problem" but sure, that sounds like a winner.

But i won't hold my breath for "good Christian families" to adopt all of them.

Which means the ugly babies will end up on wards of the state and eventually in prison ...

at which point, conservatives will have yet another thing to whine about.

[Chris]

I wasn't aware there was any "abortion problem" but sure, that sounds like a winner.

But i won't hold my breath for "good Christian families" to adopt all of them.

Which means the ugly babies will end up on wards of the state and eventually in prison ...

at which point, conservatives will have yet another thing to whine about.


That argument from hypocrisy is kind of old.

I read recently where a gay couple adopted a baby but were upset it was black. Yea, old but popped up recently, here: White Woman Who Sued Sperm Bank Over Black Baby Says It’s Not About Race (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/02/black-sperm-lawsuit_n_5922180.html).

[Mister D]

Sorry to disagree with your massive expertise in all things, but I'm pretty sure that my background and education, and the people I've known and mentored with, give me a better understanding of Rand, her ideas, and her philosophical triumphs and failures than you. We'll just leave it at that; I don't feel like playing the IPTG (Internet Philosophy Tough Guy) card. And I really don't feel I need to prove anything to a pretentious and condescending jacka55 who has yet, as far as I can see, to post anything that (1) doesn't include at least one veiled put-down of someone, and (2) actually contributes something of substance to the knowledge-base of this forum.

You'd have to know what you're talking about before you can agree or disagree. In this case, you don't. I'll continue to point that out whenever I feel like it. You will of course respond and stomp your feet because it bothers you when I do that. :wink: Ayn Rand was a self-absorbed cretin which is exactly what your remarks indicate. But you don't really get that. You're just trying and failing to be pretentious by parroting a philosophical position you don't really understand.

[OGIS]

Right, he's no Ayn Rand.

Something, for once, that you are literally correct about. I'm male, for one thing. And alive.

Congratulations.

[Mister D]

Right, he's no Ayn Rand.

Sure he is! All you have to do is say "man qua man! squawk! man qua man!"

[OGIS]

You'd have to know what you're talking about before you can agree or disagree. In this case, you don't. I'll continue to point that out whenever I feel like it. You will of course respond and stomp your feet because it bothers you when I do that. :wink: Ayn Rand was a self-absorbed cretin which is exactly what your remarks indicate. But you don't really get that. You're just trying and failing to be pretentious by parroting a philosophical position you don't really understand.

Oh, by the way, just so you know, my comment on morality that you went all derpy over was not actually based on anything Ayn Rand said or wrote. It may have sounded similar to ignorant people, but it wasn't derivative of her work. Many other ethical philosophers have noted that moral codes that do not assume life as the primary value are, at best, examples of lifeboat ethics, and at worst simply irrelevant to actual, you know, living.

Seeing Ayn Rand lurking behind every bush and comment is no way to go through life, son. Did she reject your attentions, or something?

[Mister D]

Oh, by the way, just so you know, my comment on morality that you went all derpy over was not actually based on anything Ayn Rand said or wrote. It may have sounded similar to ignorant people, but it wasn't derivative of her work. Many other ethical philosophers have noted that moral codes that do not assume life as the primary value are, at best, examples of lifeboat ethics, and at worst simply irrelevant to actual, you know, living.

Take a hike, Troll.

:laugh: Yes, it was and you know it was. Nice try but you're a little too late, OGIS. Stop parroting Ayn Rand. She sure as hell isn't worth it.

[Mister D]

I love how pissed off this clown gets when i force feed him his own medicine.

[OGIS]

That argument from hypocrisy is kind of old.

I read recently where a gay couple adopted a baby but were upset it was black. Yea, old but popped up recently, here: White Woman Who Sued Sperm Bank Over Black Baby Says It’s Not About Race (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/02/black-sperm-lawsuit_n_5922180.html).

So you turn around and immediately use it!

14661

[Mister D]

So you turn around and immediately use it!

14661

No, OGIS. He's saying it's stupid and easily turned on the accuser. Get it now? Maybe we can conduct an Ayn Rand seminar later on so you can learn about her too. lol

[OGIS]

:laugh: Yes, it was and you know it was. Nice try but you're a little too late, OGIS. Stop parroting Ayn Rand. She sure as hell isn't worth it.


I love how pissed off this clown gets when i force feed him his own medicine.

Lol, Mind Reader AND Internet Tough Guy.

Lions and tigers and bears, OH MY!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

[Mister D]

Lol, Mind Reader AND Internet Tough Guy.

Lions and tigers and bears, OH MY!

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

Tough guy? What? lol Dude, you have a very limited repertoire.

Anyway, you aren't fooling anyone least of all yourself. :wink:

[Peter1469]

I'm sure that would excite you. You could wear your armband.

I checked. The store said that the pro-death crowd bought them all.

[Chris]

Sorry to disagree with your massive expertise in all things, but I'm pretty sure that my background and education, and the people I've known and mentored with, give me a better understanding of Rand, her ideas, and her philosophical triumphs and failures than you. We'll just leave it at that; I don't feel like playing the IPTG (Internet Philosophy Tough Guy) card. And I really don't feel I need to prove anything to a pretentious and condescending jacka55 who has yet, as far as I can see, to post anything that (1) doesn't include at least one veiled put-down of someone, and (2) actually contributes something of substance to the knowledge-base of this forum.


Cut the insults and stick to topic.

[Peter1469]

Notice: tPF removed from flame bait thread.

[OGIS]

And so it goes....

Nice little underground railroad you people have here.

Let me check the logic:

1) post legitimate news article regarding a scientific breakthrough and post a comment about how this will do an end-run around a prominent and apparently unsolvable moral debate.

2) thread attracts con(servative)-artist Trolls who trash the thread.

3) OH NOES! Thread is a flamebait thread, as proven by the fact that it has attracted Trolls.

4) Remove tPF designation so Trolls cannot be removed.

5 PROFIT! For someone.

But wait! There's MORE:

6) Thread will soon be removed from Latest Happenings and moved to Rants... and thence to The Hole.

7) TO will be TBed.

.
.
.
.
.
299) tpf finally becomes yet another con(servative)-artist echo chamber with an entirely predictable and greatly reduced membership. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

[Mister D]

300) Get a life! :laugh:

[Chris]

And so it goes....

Nice little underground railroad you people have here.

Let me check the logic:

1) post legitimate news article regarding a scientific breakthrough and post a comment about how this will do an end-run around a prominent and apparently unsolvable moral debate.

2) thread attracts con(servative)-artist Trolls who trash the thread.

3) OH NOES! Thread is a flamebait thread, as proven by the fact that it has attracted Trolls.

4) Remove tPF designation so Trolls cannot be removed.

5 PROFIT! For someone.

But wait! There's MORE:

6) Thread will soon be removed from Latest Happenings and moved to Rants... and thence to The Hole.

7) TO will be TBed.

.
.
.
.
.
299) tpf finally becomes yet another con(servative)-artist echo chamber with an entirely predictable and greatly reduced membership. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!



Is that really what goes on inside that noggin of yours?