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MMC
05-10-2016, 07:24 AM
They’re Changing the Rules for Superdelegates.....


The award for most deliberate and egregious burying of a lead has just been handed out.

It goes to NBC News, for a story (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-makes-things-awkward-hillary-clintons-dnc-takeover) entitled, “Bernie Sanders Makes Things Awkward for Hillary Clinton’s DNC Takeover.”

Put aside for a moment that the story’s central premise is the uncritical repetition of a nonsense: the idea that a major-party convention can’t — as in literally cannot be — planned without a nominee being declared at least a month and a half in advance. We know that’s untrue because, up until a week ago, that’s exactly what the GOP was (with minimal public grousing by RNC Chair Reince Priebus) planning to do.

Where does this information appear in the article? In the very last sentence, of course.

So Bernie Sanders saying that he plans to go to the Party’s summer convention and argue that he’s best positioned to win the general election is the veritable dictionary definition of “playing by the rules.” Meanwhile, Clinton and her camp suddenly discovering some unstated principle about the connection between super-delegates and the popular vote, or super-delegates and the pledged-delegate count, is pretty rich — given that Clinton picked up 86 percent of her super-delegates (451 of 523) at a time when she was well behind in both measures. Calling Clinton a hypocrite on the issue of super-delegates would be unkind; it would be more accurate to say that, on the subject of super-delegates, as on so many other subjects, there is no evidence that Clinton has any core principles whatsoever.

So, to recap: the DNC has told the media that super-delegates can’t and don’t get tallied for purposes of declaring a nominee until July; Sanders has taken the same view; yet the DNC has since April, we now learn, been working with the Clinton camp behind the scenes to have the Democratic primary declared over on June 7th......snip~

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/clinton-and-the-dnc-are-not-just-colluding----theyre-changing-the-rules-for-superdelegates_b_9876274.html?ref=yfp


So far Maine did the Right thing. Here is more on this. :wink:

MMC
05-10-2016, 07:27 AM
So, to recap: Clinton approached hundreds and hundreds of super-delegates in 2015, before any American had voted or any candidate taken a popular-vote or pledged-delegate lead, and asked for their endorsement on the basis of super-delegates being tasked with supporting the Party’s strongest candidate; Sanders has accepted that view of super-delegates’ role; Clinton, now leading by a large margin among super-delegates and pledged delegates alike, has suddenly changed her view to the “principled” position that super-delegates must support whoever wins the popular vote and the pledged-delegate count; the media has treated Clinton’s about-face as honorable and Sanders’ consistent position as a betrayal of his core principles.


So, to recap: the traditional mechanism for assessing which primary candidate has the best chance to win in the fall is general-election polling, which research tells us (http://www.vox.com/2016/3/31/11336884/donald-trump-polls-winning) hits an “accuracy spike” in April, at which point it’s about as accurate as August polling; Bernie Sanders led Trump by more nationally and in every battleground state in April polling; the media and the Clinton campaign spent April talking about how general-election polling has no value; now that Clinton seems almost certain to be the Democratic nominee, both the media and the Clinton camp have suddenly declared spring polling inviolably predictive and reliable.

So, to recap: the media has consistently reported on Hillary Clinton’s efforts to reach out to Sanders voters; the media is unable to provide any example of this happening other than Clinton gamely refusing to call for her opponent’s concession a month earlier than she conceded in 2008;


I’ve been covering presidential elections for the past four election cycles, and the media coverage for this particular cycle has been so uniformly disgraceful that we can reasonably expect this — in conjunction with Hillary Clinton lately running one of the smuggest, most tone-deaf, and least transparent campaigns in postwar American politics — will lead to one of the lowest November turnouts in recent memory.

Barring a Sanders concession — which the candidate has assured the nation is not forthcoming — if the national media and the Clinton campaign declare victory at any time prior to the July convention, it will not only be a contravention of the rules laid out for the media and the Democratic Party by the DNC but such a dramatic dereliction of journalistic principles that both the Democrats and indeed the nation will deserve whatever they get come November. The media has been slapping progressives in the face for a year now; and the Clinton campaign has gleefully joined in over the last few months; so when young, working-class, and progressive Americans stay home in November, don’t you dare turn around and blame it on us......snip~

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/clinton-and-the-dnc-are-not-just-colluding----theyre-changing-the-rules-for-superdelegates_b_9876274.html?ref=yfp

PolWatch
05-10-2016, 07:36 AM
This election has been a real surprise on many levels. I would have bet that we would see a Bush/Clinton match-up....or any repub with RNC support. Clinton was kinda the presumed candidate, no matter what the situation. Both parties now have insurgents! Sanders won't go away & Trump appears to have the support of many repub except the RNC. I have to wonder what backroom maneuvers will go on at both conventions!

Standing Wolf
05-10-2016, 07:40 AM
...so when young, working-class, and progressive Americans stay home in November, don’t you dare turn around and blame it on us...

I'd like to believe that the number of truly progressive Americans - of whatever age, class and Party - who would allow their pique at such trivia to make them, in effect, aid the campaign of the Big Orange Clown by not voting in November, is small.

zelmo1234
05-10-2016, 07:43 AM
If you look at the votes that Sanders, Cruz, and Trump Received, you can see just how upset the country is with the direction of the country and Washington DC.

I actually felt sorry for the Obama Family

When they were announced at a Baseball Game, the Crowd actually booed them. That is tuff when you have your children with you.

This of all years is a chance for a 3rd party candidate to take the election. But not likely to happen.

zelmo1234
05-10-2016, 07:45 AM
I'd like to believe that the number of truly progressive Americans - of whatever age, class and Party - who would allow their pique at such trivia to make them, in effect, aid the campaign of the Big Orange Clown by not voting in November, is small.

So a Big Orange Clown, is worse that someone that used a Charity, of which she and her family take 85% for operating cost, to sell influence to the State Department. That is Treason in my book.

The reason that the people will stay home is because they have nothing to get excited about, That is the fault of the parties, not the people

PolWatch
05-10-2016, 07:46 AM
The repub party has seen a very emotional, mud slinging, name calling primary. I won't be surprised to see the emotions elicited result in a very low voter turnout on election day. Sore losers will take their marbles & stay home. The dems may experience the same reaction but I don't see as much high emotion in their primary. Clinton's nomination will not be a surprise. I expect Sanders to finish up with a call for party unity.

Mac-7
05-10-2016, 07:53 AM
I'd like to believe that the number of truly progressive Americans - of whatever age, class and Party - who would allow their pique at such trivia to make them, in effect, aid the campaign of the Big Orange Clown by not voting in November, is small.

Not that I care, but the Cookie Lady's obsession with being president means that the most popular candidate on the democrat side is not allowed to have the nomination.

And with the example of bernie to guide them I think the dems will nominate a full blown marxist next time

MMC
05-10-2016, 08:10 AM
I'd like to believe that the number of truly progressive Americans - of whatever age, class and Party - who would allow their pique at such trivia to make them, in effect, aid the campaign of the Big Orange Clown by not voting in November, is small.

They say a third, but if Clinton and the DNC keep playing it as they are. That will increase. Keep in mind that goes along with the problem Hillary has with women, the military and blue collar workers.

More States need to do like Maine. This way the Demos can make sure there isn't another Hillary Clinton type in the future.

Tahuyaman
05-10-2016, 09:24 AM
This election has been a real surprise on many levels. I would have bet that we would see a Bush/Clinton match-up....or any repub with RNC support. Clinton was kinda the presumed candidate, no matter what the situation. Both parties now have insurgents! Sanders won't go away & Trump appears to have the support of many repub except the RNC. I have to wonder what backroom maneuvers will go on at both conventions!

obviously the RNC has no choice but to back Trump. It would be interesting to see what happens if they didn't.

I never bought into the Bush vs Clinton notion. I always thought the Republicans were going to unite around a governor who had a record of kicking the crap out of liberals, like Scott Walker.

Green Arrow
05-10-2016, 09:32 AM
I'd like to believe that the number of truly progressive Americans - of whatever age, class and Party - who would allow their pique at such trivia to make them, in effect, aid the campaign of the Big Orange Clown by not voting in November, is small.

What incentive is there for us to turn around and support Hillary and the DNC after they've spent a year mocking, belittling, and insulting us, and doing everything they could to shut us out of the process? Even now, Democrats are gleefully boasting about agreeing to Sanders' concessions now and then stabbing him - and, by extension, us - in the back once Hillary is the nominee.

MMC
05-10-2016, 10:08 AM
Not that I care, but the Cookie Lady's obsession with being president means that the most popular candidate on the democrat side is not allowed to have the nomination.

And with the example of bernie to guide them I think the dems will nominate a full blown marxist next time

Either way.....the Progressives are calling out the MS Media as being part of the problem.

MisterVeritis
05-10-2016, 10:15 AM
I look forward to Hillary's indictment in the coming month or two. That should change the nature of the conversations.

Mac-7
05-10-2016, 10:28 AM
I look forward to Hillary's indictment in the coming month or two. That should change the nature of the conversations.

Would a trump justice department do what the obumer jd would not?

i used to think jail time was too punitive for any former first lady.

but now I say give her at least as much time as martha stewart got

AZ Jim
05-10-2016, 10:46 AM
I look forward to Hillary's indictment in the coming month or two. That should change the nature of the conversations.Enjoy your long, fruitless wait!!

domer76
05-10-2016, 10:47 AM
So, to recap: Clinton approached hundreds and hundreds of super-delegates in 2015, before any American had voted or any candidate taken a popular-vote or pledged-delegate lead, and asked for their endorsement on the basis of super-delegates being tasked with supporting the Party’s strongest candidate; Sanders has accepted that view of super-delegates’ role; Clinton, now leading by a large margin among super-delegates and pledged delegates alike, has suddenly changed her view to the “principled” position that super-delegates must support whoever wins the popular vote and the pledged-delegate count; the media has treated Clinton’s about-face as honorable and Sanders’ consistent position as a betrayal of his core principles.


So, to recap: the traditional mechanism for assessing which primary candidate has the best chance to win in the fall is general-election polling, which research tells us (http://www.vox.com/2016/3/31/11336884/donald-trump-polls-winning) hits an “accuracy spike” in April, at which point it’s about as accurate as August polling; Bernie Sanders led Trump by more nationally and in every battleground state in April polling; the media and the Clinton campaign spent April talking about how general-election polling has no value; now that Clinton seems almost certain to be the Democratic nominee, both the media and the Clinton camp have suddenly declared spring polling inviolably predictive and reliable.

So, to recap: the media has consistently reported on Hillary Clinton’s efforts to reach out to Sanders voters; the media is unable to provide any example of this happening other than Clinton gamely refusing to call for her opponent’s concession a month earlier than she conceded in 2008;


I’ve been covering presidential elections for the past four election cycles, and the media coverage for this particular cycle has been so uniformly disgraceful that we can reasonably expect this — in conjunction with Hillary Clinton lately running one of the smuggest, most tone-deaf, and least transparent campaigns in postwar American politics — will lead to one of the lowest November turnouts in recent memory.

Barring a Sanders concession — which the candidate has assured the nation is not forthcoming — if the national media and the Clinton campaign declare victory at any time prior to the July convention, it will not only be a contravention of the rules laid out for the media and the Democratic Party by the DNC but such a dramatic dereliction of journalistic principles that both the Democrats and indeed the nation will deserve whatever they get come November. The media has been slapping progressives in the face for a year now; and the Clinton campaign has gleefully joined in over the last few months; so when young, working-class, and progressive Americans stay home in November, don’t you dare turn around and blame it on us......snip~

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/clinton-and-the-dnc-are-not-just-colluding----theyre-changing-the-rules-for-superdelegates_b_9876274.html?ref=yfp

Call a waaambulance. Why are you so concerned about how the opposing party picks their candidates?

MMC
05-10-2016, 11:03 AM
Call a waaambulance. Why are you so concerned about how the opposing party picks their candidates?

The Sanders supporters and Progs did better, they sounded a nationwide alert.

Talked about how Hillary Clinton has no core values and how she subverted the process.

One should always be concerned about the opposing party and how they operate. Until they are no longer an opposing party.

domer76
05-10-2016, 11:08 AM
The Sanders supporters and Progs did better, they sounded a nationwide alert.

Talked about how Hillary Clinton has no core values and how she subverted the process.

One should always be concerned about the opposing party and how they operate. Until they are no longer an opposing party.

Why? I could not give a shit how this Republican Party chooses their candidate. They obviously have chosen one who has zero core values, is a policy dullard and wants to bang his daughter. His base is the uneducated. He has alienated almost every minority group and many world leaders. What could be better?

BTW, if you think Sanders did better, take another look at the delegate count.

MMC
05-10-2016, 11:39 AM
Why? I could not give a $#@! how this Republican Party chooses their candidate. They obviously have chosen one who has zero core values, is a policy dullard and wants to bang his daughter. His base is the uneducated. He has alienated almost every minority group and many world leaders. What could be better?

BTW, if you think Sanders did better, take another look at the delegate count.

Yeah yeah, at least the Repubs had people to choose from.

Sanders and the Progressives did better than calling for an ambulance. Like I said.....they sounded the alert. For their own kind.

domer76
05-10-2016, 11:54 AM
Yeah yeah, at least the Repubs had people to choose from.

Sanders and the Progressives did better than calling for an ambulance. Like I said.....they sounded the alert. For their own kind.

They had a circus of clowns to choose from and it looks like they got the biggest one.

MisterVeritis
05-10-2016, 04:49 PM
I look forward to Hillary's indictment in the coming month or two. That should change the nature of the conversations.

Enjoy your long, fruitless wait!!
There is less waiting time ahead than there is behind us. I believe that Hillary will face FBI questions before the end of May. I don't know how long it typically takes from question wrap-up to indictment recommendations. So does July seem like a reasonable month to see her perp-walked?