PDA

View Full Version : New Overtime Rule Surely Appeals To Trump Supporters



Mark III
05-24-2016, 09:26 AM
McLaughlin Group discussing the new overtime rules enacted by President Obama


PAT BUCHANAN: Well, look, the idea that a bunch of politicians, most of whom never created a job in their entire life, can determine exactly how business should be managed by millions and millions of businesses who work every day, what’s going to happen is, somebody’s going to get a pay raise here, other employees are going to be dropped off. Some shops are going to say, let’s get out of the U.S. and all these regulations and move to Mexico. It’s all going to be all worked around by these millions and millions of people, and Congress will say, look at what a wonderful thing we did.


And it’s the same old nonsense. It’s why the country is in economic trouble.


CLARENCE PAGE: This is also why there’s so much support going to your protege Donald Trump, because people out there, working people, are upset over the growing wage and pay gap. This is one way of addressing it. It’s not perfect, but those folks who say Washington isn’t aware of what ordinary people are going through out there --



\http://www.mclaughlin.com/transcript.htm?id=2121

(http://www.mclaughlin.com/transcript.htm?id=2121)


The GOP is at war with itself. The old guard , Pat Buchanan, John McLaughlin, the National Review writer Tom Rogan ,who was also a panelist on this show, are completely at odds with the wishes of the working class Trump voters who want the government to do something for them.


It would be interesting to see some reporter with half a brain ask Trump what he thinks of the new overtime rules (if any did I didn't see it) . He'd probably hem and haw around the question because he is caught between the establishment, with a pattern of fighting anything that will benefit workers , and his lower class followers who will benefit from overtime rules that are more favorable to some of them.


The conservatives on the program said that paying people overtime pay will harm the economy. By the "economy" they surely mean profit that goes to executives and stockholders. For years companies have been taking non-managerial staff that have been hourly and making them "managers". With these people, it is a sham by which they put these workers on salary instead and are able to work them extra hours without paying them anything. The worker is enticed by a little more base pay and the "prestige" of being referred to as a "manager" even though in many cases the only person they manage is themselves. For the most part these people are not paid managers salaries. Until Obama just changed the rules, someone making 12.00 an hour might not be eligible for overtime pay if they were on salary. This is/was ridiculous, unfair, and immoral.


And the Republican establishment thinks it was just fine because "the economy" might be harmed by doing otherwise.

Mark III
05-24-2016, 09:27 AM
I can't find anything about a reporter getting Trump's take on this. Maybe they were asking him about Bill Clinton's mistresses.

Common
05-24-2016, 09:43 AM
Read it doesnt do much of anything, its too little too late. Jerkoff has done nothing for working americans from min wage workers on up. He has been totally engaged of frivolous crap for spite

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 10:06 AM
The Obama Regime's meddling will increase support for Trump. Of course the Regime set the implementation date right after the election. The regime knows it is going to hurt the lower middle class. They will earn less with the rule in place.

Tahuyaman
05-24-2016, 10:10 AM
New Overtime Rule Surely Appeals To Trump Supporters
Do you think you could have come up with a more dishonest title?

Mark III
05-24-2016, 10:11 AM
The Obama Regime's meddling will increase support for Trump. Of course the Regime set the implementation date right after the election. The regime knows it is going to hurt the lower middle class. They will earn less with the rule in place.

lol

Mark III
05-24-2016, 10:11 AM
New Overtime Rule Surely Appeals To Trump Supporters


Do you think you could have come up with a more dishonest title?


Not all , this is what Clarence Page of the McLaughlin group was saying.

Tahuyaman
05-24-2016, 10:13 AM
Of course, he's known for unbiased and honest journalism.

Mark III
05-24-2016, 10:14 AM
Of course, he's known for unbiased and honest journalism.

Okay, let's go at this from a different angle. Why wouldn't the new overtime rule appeal to Trump's working class supporters?

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 10:27 AM
The Obama Regime's meddling will increase support for Trump. Of course the Regime set the implementation date right after the election. The regime knows it is going to hurt the lower middle class. They will earn less with the rule in place.

lol
What do you find amusing?

The fascist Obama regime has created another harmful rule. Salaried employees will become hourly employees. To make sure no one goes beyond 40 hours many jobs will move to 3/4ths time. Employees will earn less.

The fascist Obama regime knows this is going to harm those salaried employees making less than 47K so they set the rule to begin after the election.

JDubya
05-24-2016, 10:32 AM
Okay, let's go at this from a different angle. Why wouldn't the new overtime rule appeal to Trump's working class supporters?

For the same reason attempting to make health care more affordable and accessible for them didn't appeal to them... a Democrat was behind it. And their puppet masters in the conservative media who issue the marching orders as to what and what not to support, issued the decree for them not to like it. In spite of the fact that it would put more money in their pockets.

They only support more money in their pockets when you apply the label "tax cut" to it. They love the idea of denying the govt of as much revenue as possible, but they hate the idea of denying billionaires a small percentage of profit.

In short, they are people whose brains were wired bassackwards.

Mark III
05-24-2016, 10:48 AM
The Obama Regime's meddling will increase support for Trump. Of course the Regime set the implementation date right after the election. The regime knows it is going to hurt the lower middle class. They will earn less with the rule in place.

What do you find amusing?

The fascist Obama regime has created another harmful rule. Salaried employees will become hourly employees. To make sure no one goes beyond 40 hours many jobs will move to 3/4ths time. Employees will earn less.

The fascist Obama regime knows this is going to harm those salaried employees making less than 47K so they set the rule to begin after the election.

You don't seem to have any idea what you are talking about. Most of the people effected by this rule WERE hourly employees who were elevated into a phony baloney managerial position so that they could be made to work overtime for free.

They will be happy to get out from under that albatross. Would you rather get 15.00 and hour for 35 hours of work ( 525.00) or 600.00 for 50 hours of work (12.00 per hr.)

Corporations want to cheat employees every chance they get. It happens millions of times in America every single day.

JDubya
05-24-2016, 10:54 AM
You don't seem to have any idea what you are talking about. Most of the people effected by this rule WERE hourly employees who were elevated into a phony baloney managerial position so that they could be made to work overtime for free.

They will be happy to get out from under that albatross. Would you rather get 15.00 and hour for 35 hours of work ( 525.00) or 600.00 for 50 hours of work (12.00 per hr.)

Corporations want to cheat employees every chance they get. It happens millions of times in America every single day.

And they do it under the guise of "just good business", which translated, means "puts more money into our pockets at their expense".

And right-wing Trumpers swallow it hook, line and sinker even when they are on the receiving end of the shaft.

Mark III
05-24-2016, 11:00 AM
And they do it under the guise of "just good business", which translated, means "puts more money into our pockets at their expense".

And right-wing Trumpers swallow it hook, line and sinker even when they are on the receiving end of the shaft.

Yes, as Buchanan and the other conservatives on the McLaughlin show said "this will hurt the economy" , by which they mean exec bonuses and stock prices. They couldn't care less about the workers. Supposedly Trump does, but I didn't hear him praise Obama for this action.

Mister D
05-24-2016, 11:09 AM
You don't seem to have any idea what you are talking about. Most of the people effected by this rule WERE hourly employees who were elevated into a phony baloney managerial position so that they could be made to work overtime for free.

They will be happy to get out from under that albatross. Would you rather get 15.00 and hour for 35 hours of work ( 525.00) or 600.00 for 50 hours of work (12.00 per hr.)

Corporations want to cheat employees every chance they get. It happens millions of times in America every single day.

You know that has been illegal for decades, right? Those affected are predominantly administrative employees who had met the former white collar exemptions. The government simply raised the salary threshold. That's it. They did so because the threshold is old.

Mister D
05-24-2016, 11:12 AM
Anyway, this will likely have an impact on business. The extra cost will have to be absorbed in some way. Hopefully it's not absorbed by hiring more part timers. Oddly enough, that was the reasoning behind the FLSA overtime laws. They thought it would reduce unemployment by forcing employers to avoid the overtime laws by hiring more people.

Mark III
05-24-2016, 11:18 AM
You know that has been illegal for decades, right? Those affected are predominantly administrative employees who had met the former white collar exemptions. The government simply raised the salary threshold. That's it. They did so because the threshold is old.



Improper Classification
Misclassification of employees as exempt, or not due overtime pay under the FLSA, is one of the most common ways employers try to get out of paying overtime and/or minimum wage. Employers usually give an employee a certain title.� The job requirements, and not title, will or will not exempt that employee from receiving overtime pay.�� To make sure you are not improperly classified as exempt, look at your specific job duties and responsibilities and see if they fit into an exemption.� If not, your employer may have misclassified you into an exempt profession when you really are entitled to overtime and protection under the FLSA

OVERTIME SCAMS (http://http://www.overtimescams.us/managerssupervisors.html)

These scams have been going on for years.

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 11:19 AM
You don't seem to have any idea what you are talking about.
We can agree to disagree about this.


Most of the people effected by this rule WERE hourly employees who were elevated into a phony baloney managerial position so that they could be made to work overtime for free.
I see you have read the talking points.


They will be happy to get out from under that albatross. Would you rather get 15.00 and hour for 35 hours of work ( 525.00) or 600.00 for 50 hours of work (12.00 per hr.)
47K per year works out to about $22/hour.

Economic illiterates cheered the $15/hour minimum wage. Businesses responded by automating. Leftists don't care. People who do not have sufficient economic value to be paid $15 were replaced by a reliable machine. Less entry level people will find jobs.


Corporations want to cheat employees every chance they get. It happens millions of times in America every single day.
This is radical leftist nonsense. But, you are free to start your own corporation and find out for yourself.

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 11:20 AM
Improper Classification


Misclassification of employees as exempt, or not due overtime pay under the FLSA, is one of the most common ways employers try to get out of paying overtime and/or minimum wage. Employers usually give an employee a certain title.� The job requirements, and not title, will or will not exempt that employee from receiving overtime pay.�� To make sure you are not improperly classified as exempt, look at your specific job duties and responsibilities and see if they fit into an exemption.� If not, your employer may have misclassified you into an exempt profession when you really are entitled to overtime and protection under the FLSA

OVERTIME SCAMS (http://http://www.overtimescams.us/managerssupervisors.html)

These scams have been going on for years.
Does anyone still believe we are not a fascist nation?

Mark III
05-24-2016, 11:21 AM
Anyway, this will likely have an impact on business. The extra cost will have to be absorbed in some way. Hopefully it's not absorbed by hiring more part timers. Oddly enough, that was the reasoning behind the FLSA overtime laws. They thought it would reduce unemployment by forcing employers to avoid the overtime laws by hiring more people.

How about the cost gets absorbed by lowering executive bonuses and stock profits?

Mark III
05-24-2016, 11:22 AM
Does anyone still believe we are not a fascist nation?


Where is my cuckoo clock?

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 11:22 AM
And they do it under the guise of "just good business", which translated, means "puts more money into our pockets at their expense".

And right-wing Trumpers swallow it hook, line and sinker even when they are on the receiving end of the shaft.
Businesses faced with this problem will convert positions to hourly and cut their full time jobs to part time jobs. Problem solved.

Mister D
05-24-2016, 11:23 AM
Improper Classification


Misclassification of employees as exempt, or not due overtime pay under the FLSA, is one of the most common ways employers try to get out of paying overtime and/or minimum wage. Employers usually give an employee a certain title.� The job requirements, and not title, will or will not exempt that employee from receiving overtime pay.�� To make sure you are not improperly classified as exempt, look at your specific job duties and responsibilities and see if they fit into an exemption.� If not, your employer may have misclassified you into an exempt profession when you really are entitled to overtime and protection under the FLSA

OVERTIME SCAMS (http://http://www.overtimescams.us/managerssupervisors.html)

These scams have been going on for years.

Right. They've been illegal for decades. Actually, they've been illegal since the FLSA came into existence. Now you might think most companies engage in those practices but then we know you're a loon. Oh and your link is broken too. Sloppy, old timer.

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 11:23 AM
Where is my cuckoo clock?
Was that a federal rule you cited? What authority does the federal government have to run businesses?

It is fascism. I understand your need for the clock, though. It is company, isn't it?

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 11:25 AM
How about the cost gets absorbed by lowering executive bonuses and stock profits?
More fascism?

The purpose of a business is to create something of value for its owners.

Mister D
05-24-2016, 11:25 AM
How about the cost gets absorbed by lowering executive bonuses and stock profits?

Because the overwhelmingly majority of businesses see executive bonuses and stock profits. What planet do you live on?

Mark III
05-24-2016, 11:26 AM
Right. They've been illegal for decades. Actually, they've been illegal since the FLSA came into existence. Now you might think most companies engage in those practices but then we know you're a loon. Oh and your link is broken too. Sloppy, old timer.


A lot of things in business are illegal but are done anyway, because the fines are cheaper than following the law, and you probably won't get caught anyway.

Your contention that the overtime scam is rare because it is illegal is amusing.

Mister D
05-24-2016, 11:28 AM
A lot of things in business are illegal but are done anyway, because the fines are cheaper than following the law, and you probably won't get caught anyway.

Your contention that the overtime scam is rare because it is illegal is amusing.

Back up your assertions with facts. I'll wait.

Mister D
05-24-2016, 11:29 AM
You have to smile at progressive kooks. Companies are breaking the law so we're going to create a new law that they won't break. Yeah, OK. lol

gamewell45
05-24-2016, 11:33 AM
The Obama Regime's meddling will increase support for Trump. Of course the Regime set the implementation date right after the election. The regime knows it is going to hurt the lower middle class. They will earn less with the rule in place.

What do you find amusing?

The fascist Obama regime has created another harmful rule. Salaried employees will become hourly employees. To make sure no one goes beyond 40 hours many jobs will move to 3/4ths time. Employees will earn less.

The fascist Obama regime knows this is going to harm those salaried employees making less than 47K so they set the rule to begin after the election.

It's not going to hurt those salaried employees making less then 47k; all it means is that employers can no longer use the flimsy excuse to squeeze as much out of employees so the owners can maximize profits.

Cutting hours in most cases will only reduce efficiency of the company and they full well know it; they'll whine and stomp their feet and in a few instances make sure that no one in their workplace works more then 40 hours per week and eventually live by the new rules.

Mister D
05-24-2016, 11:34 AM
BTW, guys, intentionally violating labor law is generally not worthwhile. All it takes is an angry employee to get caught. They contact the labor board and you will likely get audited. Most violations are actually unintentional. They happen all the time. If the state determines you did it on purpose you are so fucked...

Mister D
05-24-2016, 11:35 AM
It's not going to hurt those salaried employees making less then 47k; all it means is that employers can no longer use the flimsy excuse to squeeze as much out of employees so the owners can maximize profits.

Cutting hours in most cases will only reduce efficiency of the company and they full well know it; they'll whine and stomp their feet and in a few instances make sure that no one in their workplace works more then 40 hours per week and eventually live by the new rules.

No, that will likely be a common response to control costs.

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 11:40 AM
It's not going to hurt those salaried employees making less then 47k; all it means is that employers can no longer use the flimsy excuse to squeeze as much out of employees so the owners can maximize profits.

Cutting hours in most cases will only reduce efficiency of the company and they full well know it; they'll whine and stomp their feet and in a few instances make sure that no one in their workplace works more then 40 hours per week and eventually live by the new rules.
That is not what happens in the real world. In the real world, four full-time salaried jobs will be converted to five part-time hourly jobs. The original four might even lose their jobs. Given other federal rules, they might choose to convert to six part-time jobs to get under the hourly requirement for benefits.

The problem with fascism is that the fascists know so much that is not so.

gamewell45
05-24-2016, 11:41 AM
No, that will likely be a common response to control costs.

It could be said that the affected employees lose nothing since they originally were never compensated for working more then 40 hours in either case. An argument could be made that it's win-win for the employees since they'll now work a true 40 hour week or the company could pay them 47,000.01 and therefore be able to classify them as exempt.

Mark III
05-24-2016, 11:45 AM
That is not what happens in the real world. In the real world, four full-time salaried jobs will be converted to five part-time hourly jobs. The original four might even lose their jobs. Given other federal rules, they might choose to convert to six part-time jobs to get under the hourly requirement for benefits.

The problem with fascism is that the fascists know so much that is not so.


People like Mister Veritis would rather see someone making 600 a week work 50 hours, reducing his effective pay rate to 12.00 an hour instead of 15.00.

Sounds good to him , as long it is not him being cheated. Case closed.

gamewell45
05-24-2016, 11:46 AM
That is not what happens in the real world. In the real world, four full-time salaried jobs will be converted to five part-time hourly jobs. The original four might even lose their jobs. Given other federal rules, they might choose to convert to six part-time jobs to get under the hourly requirement for benefits.

The problem with fascism is that the fascists know so much that is not so.

And if the original four lose their jobs, who is going to do the work they were originally doing?

If they were to convert to six part-time jobs the employees could legally organize and bargain for the terms and conditions of employment including wages. There is no easy way out for the employer.

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 11:47 AM
That is not what happens in the real world. In the real world, four full-time salaried jobs will be converted to five part-time hourly jobs. The original four might even lose their jobs. Given other federal rules, they might choose to convert to six part-time jobs to get under the hourly requirement for benefits.

The problem with fascism is that the fascists know so much that is not so.

People like Mister Veritis would rather see someone making 600 a week work 50 hours, reducing his effective pay rate to 12.00 an hour instead of 15.00.

Sounds good to him , as long it is not him being cheated. Case closed.
The problem with you Marxists, is that your fundamental beliefs fail to take human nature into consideration. If you want to earn more you must be worth more.

But I get your support for federal fascism.

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 11:48 AM
And if the original four lose their jobs, who is going to do the work they were originally doing?

If they were to convert to six part-time jobs the employees could legally organize and bargain for the terms and conditions of employment including wages. There is no easy way out for the employer.
If the original four are fired the new six will do the work the four had been doing.

Private sector unions are on the way out. As they should be.

gamewell45
05-24-2016, 11:54 AM
If the original four are fired the new six will do the work the four had been doing.

If you are lucky enough to find 6 people willing to work part time; in today's world, people graduating from high school/college want full time jobs. Good Luck.


Private sector unions are on the way out. As they should be.

Private sector unions have definitely taken a hit over the past 3 decades, however like all other businesses, everything is cyclical and eventually they'll make a comeback if enough workers decide they are unhappy with their employment conditions. As it should be.

Mister D
05-24-2016, 11:55 AM
It could be said that the affected employees lose nothing since they originally were never compensated for working more then 40 hours in either case. An argument could be made that it's win-win for the employees since they'll now work a true 40 hour week or the company could pay them 47,000.01 and therefore be able to classify them as exempt.

On the contrary, there is no longer a guaranteed salary. Now you punch a clock. Never mind the demoralizing aspect of this transition. Wanna leave a couple hours early to watch the kids game? You won't get paid for it now. Late today? That's missed time. You won't get paid for it now. Long lunch? You get docked for that now. There are a multitude of scenarios that salaried workers generally don't have to worry about. I know I don't. Then you have to consider the very real possibility that the full time 50 hour job you were working will become two 25-30 part time jobs. Yeah, woo hoo. Must make retired old men feel victorious.

Mark III
05-24-2016, 11:58 AM
That is not what happens in the real world. In the real world, four full-time salaried jobs will be converted to five part-time hourly jobs. The original four might even lose their jobs. Given other federal rules, they might choose to convert to six part-time jobs to get under the hourly requirement for benefits.

The problem with fascism is that the fascists know so much that is not so.

The problem with you Marxists, is that your fundamental beliefs fail to take human nature into consideration. If you want to earn more you must be worth more.

But I get your support for federal fascism.

You have employee x who is making 14.00 and hour as an hourly employee. The company says "we are making you a manager. You're getting a raise to 17.00 an hour." The employee is excited. What he doesn't know is that instead of 40 hours and possible overtime , he will now be on call for any extra hours, 7 days a week and not paid a penny more than his 680 a week base pay. If he works 50 hours for 680 that lowers his effective hourly rate to 13.60, less than he was making before the "promotion", plus he is working 10 more hours a week.

It's little more than thievery. Apparently you endorse it.

Mister D
05-24-2016, 12:00 PM
You have employee x who is making 14.00 and hour as an hourly employee. The company says "we are making you a manager. You're getting a raise to 17.00 an hour." The employee is excited. What he doesn't know is that instead of 40 hours and possible overtime , he will now be on call for any extra hours, 7 days a week and not paid a penny more than his 680 a week base pay. If he works 50 hours for 680 that lowers his effective hourly rate to 13.60, less than he was making before the "promotion", plus he is working 10 more hours a week.

It's little more than thievery. Apparently you endorse it.

It's also pure fantasy. What planet do you live on?

Tahuyaman
05-24-2016, 12:01 PM
Okay, let's go at this from a different angle. Why wouldn't the new overtime rule appeal to Trump's working class supporters?

I don't know. Isn't it more important how Trump himself views the issue?

Mark III
05-24-2016, 12:02 PM
It's also pure fantasy. What planet do you live on?

It isn't fantasy at all. It happens all the time.

Mister D
05-24-2016, 12:04 PM
It isn't fantasy at all. It happens all the time.


Yeah, of course it does, Mark. :rollseyes: Da evil corporations try to make everyone's work experience a living hell. It's great for employee retention.

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 12:09 PM
You have employee x who is making 14.00 and hour as an hourly employee. The company says "we are making you a manager. You're getting a raise to 17.00 an hour." The employee is excited. What he doesn't know is that instead of 40 hours and possible overtime , he will now be on call for any extra hours, 7 days a week and not paid a penny more than his 680 a week base pay. If he works 50 hours for 680 that lowers his effective hourly rate to 13.60, less than he was making before the "promotion", plus he is working 10 more hours a week.

It's little more than thievery. Apparently you endorse it.
I love your artwork. Strawmen are all the rage, aren't they?

$14/hour is about $29K per year.
$17/hour is about $35K per year.

Some people do the minimum and will always be a low pay employee. Some people recognize that a 40 hour week is the floor, not the ceiling.

A business hit with this fascistic federal rule will convert the salaried employees to hourly and then stay under 40 hours. I have seen cases where the employee was only allotted 28 hours of work-time per week to ensure they could not accidently go into overtime.

Mark III
05-24-2016, 12:12 PM
I love your artwork. Strawmen are all the rage, aren't they?

$14/hour is about $29K per year.
$17/hour is about $35K per year.

Some people do the minimum and will always be a low pay employee. Some people recognize that a 40 hour week is the floor, not the ceiling.

A business hit with this fascistic federal rule will convert the salaried employees to hourly and then stay under 40 hours. I have seen cases where the employee was only allotted 28 hours of work-time per week to ensure they could not accidently go into overtime.

Is is a waste of time to talk to you.

Kudos to the president for belatedly correcting this injustice.

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 12:16 PM
If you are lucky enough to find 6 people willing to work part time; in today's world, people graduating from high school/college want full time jobs. Good Luck.
LOL. Sure. When federal fascism forces businesses to move from full time to part time labor forces there will always be somebody willing to fill the positions.


Private sector unions have definitely taken a hit over the past 3 decades, however like all other businesses, everything is cyclical and eventually they'll make a comeback if enough workers decide they are unhappy with their employment conditions. As it should be.
I don't know.

gamewell45
05-24-2016, 12:17 PM
On the contrary, there is no longer a guaranteed salary. Now you punch a clock. Punch a clock? I was hourly for my entire career and I never once punched a clock.


Never mind the demoralizing aspect of this transition. Wanna leave a couple hours early to watch the kids game? You won't get paid for it now. Late today? That's missed time. You won't get paid for it now. Long lunch? You get docked for that now.

What about if you have no kids; hence no games to watch? Late? That comes with the territory. Long lunch? How many 2 hour lunches does the average employee take per week? 1 or 2? Four hours total and if you do that every week, you'll be out of a job as a manager.


There are a multitude of scenarios that salaried workers generally don't have to worry about. I know I don't. Then you have to consider the very real possibility that the full time 50 hour job you were working will become two 25-30 part time jobs. Yeah, woo hoo. Must make retired old men feel victorious.

50 hour job for managers where I come from is a myth. How about 65 to 70 hours per week depending on the time of the year?? That's why the managers on my job were all paid 6 figures yearly. It was to make up for all the time you spent there without getting overtime. Demoralizing? If your a manager working 60 hours per week being paid 30k salaried, yeah that's demoralizing.

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 12:18 PM
Is is a waste of time to talk to you.

Kudos to the president for belatedly correcting this injustice.
I suppose when one actually does not care about the people who will be adversely affected congratulating the most destructive president in generations seems appropriate.

The Sage of Main Street
05-24-2016, 12:20 PM
How about the cost gets absorbed by lowering executive bonuses and stock profits? God will punish us if we stand up to our Masters, who are His appointed Lords of the Earth! Democracy is demonic; kneel to the Archangels of the Marketplace!

gamewell45
05-24-2016, 12:23 PM
LOL. Sure. When federal fascism forces businesses to move from full time to part time labor forces there will always be somebody willing to fill the positions.

It's all elementary, if you employ full time employees, there is a commitment to the employees and you get quality full time worth of work out of them; on the other hand if you employ part time employees your going to get less quality part time work out of them since there is no commitment by the employer. Blaming the federal government makes no difference to the employee since they want the best employment opportunity.

Remember, the federal government forces no company to shift from full time jobs to part time jobs; that decision is made at the corporate/owner level in one of their board rooms.

Mister D
05-24-2016, 12:34 PM
Punch a clock? I was hourly for my entire career and I never once punched a clock.



What about if you have no kids; hence no games to watch? Late? That comes with the territory. Long lunch? How many 2 hour lunches does the average employee take per week? 1 or 2? Four hours total and if you do that every week, you'll be out of a job as a manager.



50 hour job for managers where I come from is a myth. How about 65 to 70 hours per week depending on the time of the year?? That's why the managers on my job were all paid 6 figures yearly. It was to make up for all the time you spent there without getting overtime. Demoralizing? If your a manager working 60 hours per week being paid 30k salaried, yeah that's demoralizing.

It's a figure of speech referring to the need to record your time. Jesus...

What if you don't have children? Was that a serious response? There are a multitude of scenarios that will effectively reduce your pay. Want some more? Can't make it today? No pay. Doctor's appointment? You're getting docked.

What is this obsession with managers? The white collar exemptions apply to millions of workers the majority of whom are NOT managers. Now you want to talk about myths? Working 60 hours a week for a $30K salary is a myth. Who does that? Do you really think that's even remotely common? Seriously?

Mister D
05-24-2016, 12:42 PM
It's all elementary, if you employ full time employees, there is a commitment to the employees and you get quality full time worth of work out of them; on the other hand if you employ part time employees your going to get less quality part time work out of them since there is no commitment by the employer. Blaming the federal government makes no difference to the employee since they want the best employment opportunity.

Remember, the federal government forces no company to shift from full time jobs to part time jobs; that decision is made at the corporate/owner level in one of their board rooms.

And that decision will likely be a more a lot more common than you think but what do you care?

Cletus
05-24-2016, 01:14 PM
The government has no business in determining wages. That is something to be negotiated between employer and employee. It is the business of no one else.

Mister D
05-24-2016, 01:23 PM
The government has no business in determining wages. That is something to be negotiated between employer and employee. It is the business of no one else.

I don't fully agree but I won't argue the point. What bothers me here is that some progressive members insist on seeing this as a matter of good versus evil. It's a cartoonish perspective. They should take this sort of thing a little more seriously. It can and probably will have some negative repercussions.

MisterVeritis
05-24-2016, 01:25 PM
It's all elementary, if you employ full time employees, there is a commitment to the employees and you get quality full time worth of work out of them; on the other hand if you employ part time employees your going to get less quality part time work out of them since there is no commitment by the employer. Blaming the federal government makes no difference to the employee since they want the best employment opportunity.

Remember, the federal government forces no company to shift from full time jobs to part time jobs; that decision is made at the corporate/owner level in one of their board rooms.
What the federal government does is viewed as damage that must be compensated for.

If the part-time workers fail to work out I will fire them and find some who do.

Federal fascism is all the rage these days. But in the end businesses will adjust what they are doing so they can stay in business.

The Sage of Main Street
05-25-2016, 08:37 AM
The government has no business in determining wages. That is something to be negotiated between employer and employee. It is the business of no one else. To anybody with any pride, no contract should be valid unless negotiated within a balance of power. The fact that it is signed is just ink. Duress is the situation of the lone individual against the business Leviathan, including the like-minded pseudo-competitive businesses within it.

gamewell45
05-27-2016, 09:25 AM
If the part-time workers fail to work out I will fire them and find some who do.

And if you cannot, then what? Word will get around that your company is nothing more then a revolving door for employees; good luck attracting anyone who gives a hoot.

gamewell45
05-27-2016, 09:41 AM
It's a figure of speech referring to the need to record your time. Jesus...

No need to get upset; I was just giving my point of view that not everyone punches a clock these days who are hourly.


What if you don't have children? Was that a serious response? There are a multitude of scenarios that will effectively reduce your pay. Want some more? Can't make it today? No pay. Doctor's appointment? You're getting docked.

And there is a reasonable explanation almost each one. Can't make it today, use a vacation or personal day; Doctors appointment? Make the appointment on your day off or take a sick day. Most businesses take into account that there is a human element involved with their employees. You decide you don't want to come to work for 3 days in a row, yes your going to get docked or even fired if you do not have a reasonable excuse. Your just giving a worse case scenario when in most cases, this is not the case unless you work at a low level entry job.


What is this obsession with managers? The white collar exemptions apply to millions of workers the majority of whom are NOT managers. Now you want to talk about myths? Working 60 hours a week for a $30K salary is a myth. Who does that? Do you really think that's even remotely common? Seriously?

It's not an obsession with managers, it's through my experience that in white collar jobs (those that are not union), the exemptions apply mainly to those in positions of authority and they have to meet certain criteria as defined by the Fair Labor and Standards Act (FLSA).
You think that anyone working 60 hours per week for a $30k salary is a myth?? It does happen in some lower paying jobs in the service and agricultural industry.

Here is a link that explains in great depth who is and who isn't exempt.


http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

gamewell45
05-27-2016, 09:43 AM
And that decision will likely be a more a lot more common than you think but what do you care?

This is just for the sake of discussion here. No need to get an attitude with me.

gamewell45
05-27-2016, 09:47 AM
The government has no business in determining wages. That is something to be negotiated between employer and employee. It is the business of no one else.

Except unless the employee has a collective bargaining agent, he/she is bargaining from a position of weakness and the government realizes that if wages go below a certain point, the affected employees will most likely end up seeking additional aid from the government, thus increasing the tax burden on the taxpayers. Rather then have the government pay the employees, it is felt that the businesses should be paying the employees a certain amount so aid from the government is not required.

MisterVeritis
05-27-2016, 05:58 PM
And if you cannot, then what? Word will get around that your company is nothing more then a revolving door for employees; good luck attracting anyone who gives a hoot.
I am sure you believe that it is not possible to find part-time employees. I cannot tell why you believe it. Nor does it matter.

MisterVeritis
05-27-2016, 05:59 PM
Except unless the employee has a collective bargaining agent, he/she is bargaining from a position of weakness and the government realizes that if wages go below a certain point, the affected employees will most likely end up seeking additional aid from the government, thus increasing the tax burden on the taxpayers. Rather then have the government pay the employees, it is felt that the businesses should be paying the employees a certain amount so aid from the government is not required.
I understand the appeal fascism has for some people. You have a totalitarian mind set.

gamewell45
05-27-2016, 07:57 PM
I understand the appeal fascism has for some people. You have a totalitarian mind set.

Realistic is more like it. :)

gamewell45
05-27-2016, 07:58 PM
I am sure you believe that it is not possible to find part-time employees. I cannot tell why you believe it. Nor does it matter.

Oh i'm sure you can find part time employees if you look hard enough, the question is, will they have the same work ethic as employees who are full time? I think for the most part you won't.

MisterVeritis
05-27-2016, 08:17 PM
Oh i'm sure you can find part time employees if you look hard enough, the question is, will they have the same work ethic as employees who are full time? I think for the most part you won't.
Under the federal government's fascistic rulings it will become the new normal.

President Trump will have lots of "fixin" to do.