Do you feel safer now?

[PolWatch]

I was shocked to hear of two FBI agents showing up at a local shop to ask about someone I know. It seems the person had posted something on Facebook that they were investigating as terrorist threats. Since I know the person they were looking for, I find it difficult to believe the remarks were anything but someone complaining about something. I think people who use social media to spew anything on their mind (that they may later regret) is stupid. That said, I also can't believe we now have federal employees monitoring what is said.

This is the logical progression of the Patriot Act. Our elected representatives passed laws that allow the government to spy on us and some of you cheered them for doing it. I don't think the partisans can point across the aisle on this one. GWB proposed this legislation and it was passed with bi-partisan support. While BHO campaigned against it, he changed his tune when it came time to extend this piece of *&^%.

I have to wonder if those who cheered the PA feel safer now or do they (like me) fear just how far this is gonna go.

[Common]

My non partisan personal response is, doesnt bother me one bit.

Thats because for one I dont commit terrorist or criminal acts. Second, im not on any social media sites, I dont find a purpose or a need for social media. I prefer real life in your face friend interaction. I use my cell phone to make phone calls <gasp> and the only ones who have my number is wife all my kids and son in laws and a few closer friends.

However, I do understand your concerns and dont disagree with you, just on a personal level I have no worries

[PolWatch]

My non partisan personal response is, doesnt bother me one bit.

Thats because for one I dont commit terrorist or criminal acts. Second, im not on any social media sites, I dont find a purpose or a need for social media. I prefer real life in your face friend interaction. I use my cell phone to make phone calls <gasp> and the only ones who have my number is wife all my kids and son in laws and a few closer friends.

However, I do understand your concerns and dont disagree with you, just on a personal level I have no worries

I have no worries that I will have a problem too. Someday your cell phone might be monitored. Do you feel ok with knowing that anything to say in personal conversations might be listened into? Even if someone says nothing that can be construed as criminal, should we be subjected to government spying for no reason?

This reminds me of the old WWII movies. Remember the scenes we have all seen & shuddered at? The scene where people are walking down a street, talking & they are stopped by soldiers who demand their papers proving they have a right to walk down the street? Perhaps they have a neighbor that is under observation and are taken in for questioning because of that? Didn't you ever think "I'm sure glad I live in America because that would never happen here'?

How far away from that are we now?

[FindersKeepers]

I have to wonder if those who cheered the PA feel safer now or do they (like me) fear just how far this is gonna go.

I'm with you on this one.

Our congressional representatives are debating this right now -- since part of the Act is due to expire at the end of next year.

They're doing a lot more than just using algorithms to target specific words used online -- anything you say on your cell phone *could* potentially be monitored via the use of a "stingray," which is a way of spoofing your cell phone -- or any digital device -- into thinking its communicating via a real cell phone tower. But it's not a tower. Local law enforcement can buy the technology from the feds, but it comes with signing NDAs, so it's pretty hush-hush. Officials can record what you say -- in addition to pinpointing your location and identifying you.

Check out the interactive map here and click on your state to see if they're using stingrays (and who, exactly, is using them):

https://www.aclu.org/map/stingray-tracking-devices-whos-got-them

[FindersKeepers]

I have no worries that I will have a problem too. Someday your cell phone might be monitored. Do you feel ok with knowing that anything to say in personal conversations might be listened into? Even if someone says nothing that can be construed as criminal, should we be subjected to government spying for no reason?

This reminds me of the old WWII movies. Remember the scenes we have all seen & shuddered at? The scene where people are walking down a street, talking & they are stopped by soldiers who demand their papers proving they have a right to walk down the street? Perhaps they have a neighbor that is under observation and are taken in for questioning because of that? Didn't you ever think "I'm sure glad I live in America because that would never happen here'?

How far away from that are we now?

LOL, you posted this while I was typing my last post. To answer you last question -- it's here.

[PolWatch]

I'm not usually someone that runs around crying 'the sky is falling' over things that might happen. Thanks for the information that shows this has progressed from something that might happen, into something that is happening. The PA was/is represented as something to keep us safer from terrorists. Now, it seems we are all suspected of being terrorists.

[FindersKeepers]

My non partisan personal response is, doesnt bother me one bit.

Thats because for one I dont commit terrorist or criminal acts. Second, im not on any social media sites, I dont find a purpose or a need for social media. I prefer real life in your face friend interaction. I use my cell phone to make phone calls <gasp> and the only ones who have my number is wife all my kids and son in laws and a few closer friends.

However, I do understand your concerns and dont disagree with you, just on a personal level I have no worries

You ought to check out the map I linked above to see if your state is using stingrays. Some states, like PA, have introduced bills to stop stingray surveillance. But, right now, if you're in an area where they're using it -- all your private conversations, your photos, your texts, etc., are not as private as you might think.

[FindersKeepers]

I'm not usually someone that runs around crying 'the sky is falling' over things that might happen. Thanks for the information that shows this has progressed from something that might happen, into something that is happening. The PA was/is represented as something to keep us safer from terrorists. Now, it seems we are all suspected of being terrorists.


And, some of the surveillance that violates your privacy is legal and isn't even a part of Section 702, the section they're debating right now.

Be aware of this little trick -- federal officials can (and do) plant recording devices in "public" spots, and there's nothing you can do about it. It's legal and they don't need a warrant.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/05/13/hidden-microphones-exposed-as-part-of-government-surveillance-program-in-the-bay-area/

I guess we all really need to keep in mind that "loose lips sink ships" and not take part in blabbing things we don't want the whole world to know. LOL

[PolWatch]

You ought to check out the map I linked above to see if your state is using stingrays. Some states, like PA, have introduced bills to stop stingray surveillance. But, right now, if you're in an area where they're using it -- all your private conversations, your photos, your texts, etc., are not as private as you might think.

I'm lucky! Alabama is always at least 5 years behind the rest of the nation!

[donttread]

I was shocked to hear of two FBI agents showing up at a local shop to ask about someone I know. It seems the person had posted something on Facebook that they were investigating as terrorist threats. Since I know the person they were looking for, I find it difficult to believe the remarks were anything but someone complaining about something. I think people who use social media to spew anything on their mind (that they may later regret) is stupid. That said, I also can't believe we now have federal employees monitoring what is said.

This is the logical progression of the Patriot Act. Our elected representatives passed laws that allow the government to spy on us and some of you cheered them for doing it. I don't think the partisans can point across the aisle on this one. GWB proposed this legislation and it was passed with bi-partisan support. While BHO campaigned against it, he changed his tune when it came time to extend this piece of *&^%.

I have to wonder if those who cheered the PA feel safer now or do they (like me) fear just how far this is gonna go.

The tyranny to fear most is clearly tyranny from within

[FindersKeepers]

I'm lucky! Alabama is always at least 5 years behind the rest of the nation!


LOL

I'm in a non-stringray state as well.

[Captain Obvious]

It's not just the Patriot Act, legislation empowering the gubmint to restrict and oppress our freedoms are baked into completely unrelated, benign legislation as to make it unnoticed.

It's happening all the time.

Freedom no longer frees you.

[Common]

I have no worries that I will have a problem too. Someday your cell phone might be monitored. Do you feel ok with knowing that anything to say in personal conversations might be listened into? Even if someone says nothing that can be construed as criminal, should we be subjected to government spying for no reason?

This reminds me of the old WWII movies. Remember the scenes we have all seen & shuddered at? The scene where people are walking down a street, talking & they are stopped by soldiers who demand their papers proving they have a right to walk down the street? Perhaps they have a neighbor that is under observation and are taken in for questioning because of that? Didn't you ever think "I'm sure glad I live in America because that would never happen here'?

How far away from that are we now?

Polwatch youre making waaaay to much out of this, there is 321,000,000 americans, 250,000,000 have cell phones. Im not worried they are going to monitor my cell phone.

[PolWatch]

I'm beginning to think we are the frogs in a pot of water. Drop a frog in hot water & he jumps out immediately. Put him in cold water & turn the heat up gradually, he will stick around until he's cooked. We are approaching the almost cooked stage.

[del]

LOL

I'm in a non-stringray state as well.

you're in a state where sting ray use is *unknown*

if you think that means non, i've got a bridge you may be interested in.

[Common]

No matter how you wring your hands over this, its done. You cant stop it americans will never have any privacy again.

A year or so ago Ethereal got angry with me because I told him we have no privacy its already gone and it was given away when everyone stuck a cell phone to their face.

Im not going to worry about it, its here to stay and its going to get more insidious.

ANYONE your neighbor can buy a drone and outfit with a camera and listening device for 200 bucks and hear everything you say at dinner or worse and maybe catch a view through your window at night

[PolWatch]

you're in a state where sting ray use is *unknown*

if you think that means non, i've got a bridge you may be interested in.

there ya go.....destroy my illusions again! party-pooper!

[Captain Obvious]

I'm beginning to think we are the frogs in a pot of water. Drop a frog in hot water & he jumps out immediately. Put him in cold water & turn the heat up gradually, he will stick around until he's cooked. We are approaching the almost cooked stage.

Great analogy.

Hope your using some of that Tony's cajun seasoning when boiling frogs though.

[MisterVeritis]

Polwatch youre making waaaay to much out of this, there is 321,000,000 americans, 250,000,000 have cell phones. Im not worried they are going to monitor my cell phone.
That is because you are blissfully unaware. Most people are.

[FindersKeepers]

you're in a state where sting ray use is *unknown*

if you think that means non, i've got a bridge you may be interested in.

You're right. Unknown doesn't mean "non." My bad.

But - I don't want your darned old bridge....:tongue11:

[FindersKeepers]

No matter how you wring your hands over this, its done. You cant stop it americans will never have any privacy again.

A year or so ago Ethereal got angry with me because I told him we have no privacy its already gone and it was given away when everyone stuck a cell phone to their face.

Im not going to worry about it, its here to stay and its going to get more insidious.

They're debating the validity of Section 702 right now and, ostensibly, they "could" reduce some of the fed's leeway for spying on us.




ANYONE your neighbor can buy a drone and outfit with a camera and listening device for 200 bucks and hear everything you say at dinner or worse and maybe catch a view through your window at night

Yes, that's possible, but at a bit higher cost. The ones that will hold a cam and can be controlled at a distance (situational awareness) are more expensive, and the owner has to register now before flying one.

And -- they make for good target practice. LOL

[silvereyes]

My non partisan personal response is, doesnt bother me one bit.

Thats because for one I dont commit terrorist or criminal acts. Second, im not on any social media sites, I dont find a purpose or a need for social media. I prefer real life in your face friend interaction. I use my cell phone to make phone calls <gasp> and the only ones who have my number is wife all my kids and son in laws and a few closer friends.

However, I do understand your concerns and dont disagree with you, just on a personal level I have no worries

Do you "do" facebook? I have an account and i check up on my extended family on it. However, i cannot fathom how people spend allllllllll day and night on it.

[Ransom]

No matter how you wring your hands over this, its done. You cant stop it americans will never have any privacy again.

A year or so ago Ethereal got angry with me because I told him we have no privacy its already gone and it was given away when everyone stuck a cell phone to their face.

Im not going to worry about it, its here to stay and its going to get more insidious.

ANYONE your neighbor can buy a drone and outfit with a camera and listening device for 200 bucks and hear everything you say at dinner or worse and maybe catch a view through your window at night

http://www.cnet.com/news/judge-rules-man-had-right-to-shoot-down-drone-over-his-house/

Neighbor or anyone else can fly a drone over my property and listen on in, I've got nothing to hide.

Gonna cost you..."200 bucks" though.

[Truth Detector]

I was shocked to hear of two FBI agents showing up at a local shop to ask about someone I know. It seems the person had posted something on Facebook that they were investigating as terrorist threats. Since I know the person they were looking for, I find it difficult to believe the remarks were anything but someone complaining about something. I think people who use social media to spew anything on their mind (that they may later regret) is stupid. That said, I also can't believe we now have federal employees monitoring what is said.

This is the logical progression of the Patriot Act. Our elected representatives passed laws that allow the government to spy on us and some of you cheered them for doing it. I don't think the partisans can point across the aisle on this one. GWB proposed this legislation and it was passed with bi-partisan support. While BHO campaigned against it, he changed his tune when it came time to extend this piece of *&^%.

I have to wonder if those who cheered the PA feel safer now or do they (like me) fear just how far this is gonna go.

The first thing you always hear from the neighbors when a terrorist act occurs, San Bernardino comes to mind; "they seemed like such nice people and always kept to themselves."

Maybe your buddy is innocent, but if they are posting nonsense on the internet that could be construed as terroristic, I am fine with them getting a visit. It's taking crap like this lightly that creates conditions ripe for terrorism. In San Bernardino, political correctness was to blame for the FACT that no one reported the suspicious activity.

[Truth Detector]

It's not just the Patriot Act, legislation empowering the gubmint to restrict and oppress our freedoms are baked into completely unrelated, benign legislation as to make it unnoticed.

It's happening all the time.

Freedom no longer frees you.

Every time I ask some Libertarian lunatic for evidence of this Government suppression, they come up with NADA like deer in headlights. So please tell me how you have been restricted or suppressed by the Patriot Act. I would REALLY like to know and see ANY examples of it.

You see, after all the hand wringing and fear mongering is done, we find out that the Government still has to acquiesce to the Constitution in order to prosecute anyone.

[MisterVeritis]

Every time I ask some Libertarian lunatic for evidence of this Government suppression, they come up with NADA like deer in headlights. So please tell me how you have been restricted or suppressed by the Patriot Act. I would REALLY like to know and see ANY examples of it.

You see, after all the hand wringing and fear mongering is done, we find out that the Government still has to acquiesce to the Constitution in order to prosecute anyone.
Government suppression occurs through the nearly 4500 independent agencies that are in the Executive branch. They write hundreds of new regulations every month, and they carry the force of law just as if they had been passed Constitutionally. Only without all of that representation nonsense and voting.

[William]

Every time I ask some Libertarian lunatic for evidence of this Government suppression, they come up with NADA like deer in headlights. So please tell me how you have been restricted or suppressed by the Patriot Act. I would REALLY like to know and see ANY examples of it.

You see, after all the hand wringing and fear mongering is done, we find out that the Government still has to acquiesce to the Constitution in order to prosecute anyone.

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/projects/niem/niempix/NiemollerQuoteMonmouthNJ580pxw.JPG

[Mac-7]

My guess is liberals can threaten to kill Trump and get no more than a yawn from the obama flunkies in Washington.


But if a conservative says he does not care if an asteroid falls on obumer its off to the re-education camp for him.

[silvereyes]

My guess is liberals can threaten to kill Trump and get no more than a yawn from the obama flunkies in Washington.


But if a conservative says he does not care if an asteroid falls on obumer its off to the re-education camp for him.

After reading your shit for the last year Id say you need a first education before re-education.

[donttread]

I'm not usually someone that runs around crying 'the sky is falling' over things that might happen. Thanks for the information that shows this has progressed from something that might happen, into something that is happening. The PA was/is represented as something to keep us safer from terrorists. Now, it seems we are all suspected of being terrorists.

It was written to apply to non terrorist from the begining, just another government power grab

[Common]

They're debating the validity of Section 702 right now and, ostensibly, they "could" reduce some of the fed's leeway for spying on us.



Yes, that's possible, but at a bit higher cost. The ones that will hold a cam and can be controlled at a distance (situational awareness) are more expensive, and the owner has to register now before flying one.

And -- they make for good target practice. LOL


I believe thats wishful thinking anything they pass will be eyewash to keep the mass's quiet. Thats just my callous opinion though

[Ransom]

It was written to apply to non terrorist from the begining, just another government power grab

However, you'll admit following the attacks on 9-11 that we had some glaring holes in security that needed to be filled....yes?

[Ransom]

I believe thats wishful thinking anything they pass will be eyewash to keep the mass's quiet. Thats just my callous opinion though

Should an (R) get elected come November, you'll start hearing from the mass again. Much like 'earmarks'........much like the detainment of prisoners abroad without right to habeas......much like deficit spending...should an (R) be President.......all of these issues come back to front burner.

[Ethereal]

I was shocked to hear of two FBI agents showing up at a local shop to ask about someone I know. It seems the person had posted something on Facebook that they were investigating as terrorist threats. Since I know the person they were looking for, I find it difficult to believe the remarks were anything but someone complaining about something. I think people who use social media to spew anything on their mind (that they may later regret) is stupid. That said, I also can't believe we now have federal employees monitoring what is said.

This is the logical progression of the Patriot Act. Our elected representatives passed laws that allow the government to spy on us and some of you cheered them for doing it. I don't think the partisans can point across the aisle on this one. GWB proposed this legislation and it was passed with bi-partisan support. While BHO campaigned against it, he changed his tune when it came time to extend this piece of *&^%.

I have to wonder if those who cheered the PA feel safer now or do they (like me) fear just how far this is gonna go.

Americans live in an oligarchic police state, and it's been an entirely bipartisan affair.

But I have to say it goes back much further than the patriot act to the late 1800's and early 1900's when industrialists and bankers essentially took over the US government and turned America into an open-air plantation.

[Ethereal]

My non partisan personal response is, doesnt bother me one bit.

Thats because for one I dont commit terrorist or criminal acts. Second, im not on any social media sites, I dont find a purpose or a need for social media. I prefer real life in your face friend interaction. I use my cell phone to make phone calls <gasp> and the only ones who have my number is wife all my kids and son in laws and a few closer friends.

However, I do understand your concerns and dont disagree with you, just on a personal level I have no worries

Being innocent of a crime is no guarantee that your liberty is safe.

[Ethereal]

I have no worries that I will have a problem too. Someday your cell phone might be monitored. Do you feel ok with knowing that anything to say in personal conversations might be listened into? Even if someone says nothing that can be construed as criminal, should we be subjected to government spying for no reason?

This reminds me of the old WWII movies. Remember the scenes we have all seen & shuddered at? The scene where people are walking down a street, talking & they are stopped by soldiers who demand their papers proving they have a right to walk down the street? Perhaps they have a neighbor that is under observation and are taken in for questioning because of that? Didn't you ever think "I'm sure glad I live in America because that would never happen here'?

How far away from that are we now?

The US government is known to have imported Nazi scientists and officials into America after WWII.

It's also known that corporate elites in America were financing the Nazi war machine from the very beginning.

But nobody wants to think about those things because it's too disturbing.

It's much easier to remain in denial and wallow in fantasy, i.e., "land of the free, home of the brave".

[Ethereal]

I'm with you on this one.

Our congressional representatives are debating this right now -- since part of the Act is due to expire at the end of next year.

They're doing a lot more than just using algorithms to target specific words used online -- anything you say on your cell phone *could* potentially be monitored via the use of a "stingray," which is a way of spoofing your cell phone -- or any digital device -- into thinking its communicating via a real cell phone tower. But it's not a tower. Local law enforcement can buy the technology from the feds, but it comes with signing NDAs, so it's pretty hush-hush. Officials can record what you say -- in addition to pinpointing your location and identifying you.

Check out the interactive map here and click on your state to see if they're using stingrays (and who, exactly, is using them):

https://www.aclu.org/map/stingray-tracking-devices-whos-got-them

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's not "potential".

The NSA has been indiscriminately monitoring, collecting, and storing ALL of our electronic communique for years now.

[Ethereal]

Polwatch youre making waaaay to much out of this, there is 321,000,000 americans, 250,000,000 have cell phones. Im not worried they are going to monitor my cell phone.

They ARE monitoring it and storing all of your communications.

This is not a theory, it's a fact.

Snowden released top secret government documentation proving that this is happening.

And whether or not this will effect you personally shouldn't matter if your concern is principled.

Because even though I don't engage in racist speech, I still support the right of people to engage in such speech because the principle of free speech needs to be protected consistently, otherwise it creates a precedent that endangers ALL speech.

Similarly, the principle of privacy needs to be defended here, even if you don't believe you will be personally impacted by the NSA's domestic spying apparatus.

Because if history has proven anything, it's that governments will push the envelope of their power and secrecy as far as possible until people stand up and compel them to stop.

Trusting the government not to abuse such a totalitarian power is just naive.

[Ethereal]

I'm beginning to think we are the frogs in a pot of water. Drop a frog in hot water & he jumps out immediately. Put him in cold water & turn the heat up gradually, he will stick around until he's cooked. We are approaching the almost cooked stage.

It's not even a question.

History is replete with examples of incremental tyranny taking hold in a given society.

And it's always the same rationale that's employed: Making us safer.

Of course, there is no evidence that the mass spying program makes us safer or that it's primary purpose is to thwart terrorism.

I am always amazed at how quickly people forget the lessons of history.

How many governments throughout history have assumed totalitarian powers for themselves and abused them later?

I can't think of a single one that hasn't.

Yet Americans think the US government is somehow the exception to this historical trend?

[Ethereal]

No matter how you wring your hands over this, its done. You cant stop it americans will never have any privacy again.

A year or so ago Ethereal got angry with me because I told him we have no privacy its already gone and it was given away when everyone stuck a cell phone to their face.

Im not going to worry about it, its here to stay and its going to get more insidious.

ANYONE your neighbor can buy a drone and outfit with a camera and listening device for 200 bucks and hear everything you say at dinner or worse and maybe catch a view through your window at night

There are steps an individual can take to reclaim their privacy, but it requires some level of technological proficiency.

That said, the political struggle over this issue is FAR from over, especially when one considers how much younger generations resent having their electronic privacy monitored and collected.

[Ethereal]

Every time I ask some Libertarian lunatic for evidence of this Government suppression, they come up with NADA like deer in headlights. So please tell me how you have been restricted or suppressed by the Patriot Act. I would REALLY like to know and see ANY examples of it.

You see, after all the hand wringing and fear mongering is done, we find out that the Government still has to acquiesce to the Constitution in order to prosecute anyone.

Isn't it ironic that Republicans such as yourself endlessly complain about how the government is oppressing you and restricting your freedoms when a Democrat is the President, yet you refuse to believe that a Republican President is capable of the same?

[Ethereal]

However, you'll admit following the attacks on 9-11 that we had some glaring holes in security that needed to be filled....yes?

Yes, but the domestic mass spying program did not address them in any way, shape, or form.

The principle fault of 9/11 was the failure of the NSA/CIA to cooperate with the FBI.

They already had knowledge that a terrorist plot was unfolding on US soil, yet they failed to tell the FBI because of bureaucratic inertia.

That is why one of the main recommendations of the 9/11 commission was to promote more robust sharing of information between agencies.

Indiscriminately monitoring and collecting the electronic communications of American civilians did not address that problem in any way, which is why there have been numerous successful terrorist attacks since it was implemented.

Simply put, the NSA's domestic spying program did not prevent the Boston bombings, the San Bernadino attacks, the attacks in Paris, or the attack in Brussels, among others.

It's a demonstrable FAILURE.

[Ethereal]

If the government tried to pass "hate speech" laws, no doubt many self-avowed "moderates" and "conservatives" would object to that, even though they do not engage in racist speech themselves.

But for some reason, they have no problem with being spied on by the government because they claim they have "nothing to hide".

Yet they still put passwords on their accounts, still lock their doors, still shutter their blinds, and still share secrets among their friends and loved ones.