Is It Possible...

[Ethereal]

...that the terrorist attack in Orlando was actually a botched FBI sting?

There are plenty of documented examples of the FBI concocting terrorist attacks so that they can arrest the perpetrator before he or she has the chance to follow through on their "plans".

Here are a few of them:

Another “Terror” Arrest; Another Mentally Ill Man, Armed by the FBI (https://theintercept.com/2015/07/13/another-terror-arrest-another-mentally-ill-man-armed-fbi/)

US: Terrorism Prosecutions Often An Illusion (https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/21/us-terrorism-prosecutions-often-illusion)

Why Does the FBI Have to Manufacture its Own Plots if Terrorism and ISIS Are Such Grave Threats? (https://theintercept.com/2015/02/26/fbi-manufacture-plots-terrorism-isis-grave-threats/)

CHRISTIE'S CONSPIRACY: The Real Story Behind the Fort Dix Five Terror Plot (https://theintercept.com/2015/06/25/fort-dix-five-terror-plot-the-real-story/)

Basically, the FBI looks for a mentally unstable person who they can persuade to commit a terrorist attack, provides them with weaponry (sometimes real, sometimes fake), and then arrests them before they actually go through with it.

Then they trumpet their success to the media who dutifully propagandizes the American people.

But what happens if one of these stings goes wrong? What if the FBI fails to stop their target before he goes through with it?

Could that be the case in Orlando?

I don't presume to know the answer, but it's a question worth asking, especially when one considers the fact that the shooter was indeed in contact with the FBI.

[Chris]

Hate to think it true but I wouldn't either put it past our government.

[Ethereal]

Hate to think it true but I wouldn't either put it past our government.

And I'm not saying there had to be intent on the FBI's part. It could have simply been incompetence.

And even if this wasn't a botched sting, it's still worth asking about the propriety of such sting operations.

Because the FBI is playing a very dangerous game.

A slip-up seems inevitable.

[The Xl]

Possible. I know, blah blah, conspiracy, but we have a bought, shady government that has declassified engaged in abhorrent behavior like this in the past.

[Ethereal]

Possible. I know, blah blah, conspiracy, but we have a bought, shady government that has declassified engaged in abhorrent behavior like this in the past.

It's a documented fact that the FBI basically entraps mentally ill people in terrorist plots that the FBI designed themselves.

So if someone wants to claim "conspiracy theory", then they are just ignorant of the facts.

[Truth Detector]

WOW; just wow. This forum seldom disjoints when it comes to raw exposed mental retardation.

[Ethereal]

WOW; just wow. This forum seldom disjoints when it comes to raw exposed mental retardation.

Just the sort of empty response I expected from you.

[Truth Detector]

Just the sort of empty response I expected from you.

How else can one respond to lunacy like "the terrorist attack in Orlando was actually a botched FBI sting"?

[Peter1469]

I doubt it.

[Cigar]

WOW; just wow. This forum seldom disjoints when it comes to raw exposed mental retardation.


Such strong words :grin: disjoint, mental and retardation all in the same sentence

[Crepitus]

I think it's pretty unlikely.

[Ethereal]

How else can one respond to lunacy like "the terrorist attack in Orlando was actually a botched FBI sting"?

Why do you always lie about other people's positions?

I did not say it was a botched FBI sting. I simply asked if it was possible.

[Ethereal]

I doubt it.

Why?

[Ethereal]

I think it's pretty unlikely.

Because?

[Peter1469]

Why?

They would have had tighter controls on the guy if it was a sting.

[Ethereal]

I will never understand why some people give the government the benefit of the doubt when history is replete with examples of them behaving in the most insane manner.

And I'm not even saying it had to be intentional, merely the result of incompetence.

Is that so hard to believe, that the government was incompetent?

[Ethereal]

They would have had tighter controls on the guy if it was a sting.

They would have? Or they should have?

Is government competence just assumed?

[Ethereal]

I heard probably a thousand times during the Obamacare debates that the US government cannot even run a website properly.

So why is it so hard to believe that they would botch a sting operation?

[Common Sense]

I doubt it.

No doubt it will generate conspiracy theories like Sandy Hook. Some of those believers are just plain nuts.

[Ethereal]

I doubt it.

Why?


No doubt it will generate conspiracy theories like Sandy Hook. Some of those believers are just plain nuts.

Except it's a fact that the FBI concocts these sorts of plots so that they can interdict the would-be perpetrator later on.

I provided ample documentation of this in my opening post.

[Peter1469]

They would have? Or they should have?

Is government competence just assumed?

I think that typically when you see large failures it is caused by policy decisions. I think most of the guys in the field are good and pay more attention when it matters. Had they been setting this guy up for a sting they don't have to wait for him to kill people to bust him. They create a conspiracy and then bust him after he takes overt acts to carry it out.

If they were running this guy and somehow he got the slip, the FBI would have been all over the crime scene early on in the attack.

[Ethereal]

I think that typically when you see large failures it is caused by policy decisions.

These FBI sting operations are the result of policy decisions.


I think most of the guys in the field are good and pay more attention when it matters.

So they don't make mistakes when it matters?


Had they been setting this guy up for a sting they don't have to wait for him to kill people to bust him.

I know that.

Theoretically, they're supposed to arrest him before he kills anyone.

But what if they make a mistake?


If they were running this guy and somehow he got the slip, the FBI would have been all over the crime scene early on in the attack.

They would have?

[Ethereal]

Putting aside for a moment this most recent incident, does anyone think it's risky for the FBI to concoct these plots?

Did anyone even bother to read the articles I posted in the OP?

Everything is documented fact.

[Green Arrow]

It's possible and worth considering, but outside of contact with the FBI there doesn't seem to be any real evidence of it yet.

[Peter1469]

These FBI sting operations are the result of policy decisions.



So they don't make mistakes when it matters?



I know that.

Theoretically, they're supposed to arrest him before he kills anyone.

But what if they make a mistake?



They would have?

The policy decision is much higher up than the agent level. Fast and Furious was a policy failure because the guns were not tracked. The program under the Bush admin tracked the guns. It was Operation Full Back or something like that.

I know senior agents who can't answer how F&F got so screwed up.

[del]

WOW; just wow. This forum seldom disjoints when it comes to raw exposed mental retardation.

it's just a coincidence that it happens when you're on.

[JDubya]

Is It Possible...


...that the terrorist attack in Orlando was actually a botched FBI sting?

There are plenty of documented examples of the FBI concocting terrorist attacks so that they can arrest the perpetrator before he or she has the chance to follow through on their "plans".

Is It Possible...

...that you are actually a botched abortion attempt?

There are plenty of documented examples of your idiotic nonsense that no normal, non-brain damaged person would ever utter publicly.

[Green Arrow]

Is It Possible...



Is It Possible...

...that you are actually a botched abortion attempt?

There are plenty of documented examples of your idiotic nonsense that no normal, non-brain damaged person would ever utter publicly.

This from the guy criticizing a lack of civility in another thread.

[donttread]

...that the terrorist attack in Orlando was actually a botched FBI sting?

There are plenty of documented examples of the FBI concocting terrorist attacks so that they can arrest the perpetrator before he or she has the chance to follow through on their "plans".

Here are a few of them:

Another “Terror” Arrest; Another Mentally Ill Man, Armed by the FBI (https://theintercept.com/2015/07/13/another-terror-arrest-another-mentally-ill-man-armed-fbi/)

US: Terrorism Prosecutions Often An Illusion (https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/21/us-terrorism-prosecutions-often-illusion)

Why Does the FBI Have to Manufacture its Own Plots if Terrorism and ISIS Are Such Grave Threats? (https://theintercept.com/2015/02/26/fbi-manufacture-plots-terrorism-isis-grave-threats/)

CHRISTIE'S CONSPIRACY: The Real Story Behind the Fort Dix Five Terror Plot (https://theintercept.com/2015/06/25/fort-dix-five-terror-plot-the-real-story/)

Basically, the FBI looks for a mentally unstable person who they can persuade to commit a terrorist attack, provides them with weaponry (sometimes real, sometimes fake), and then arrests them before they actually go through with it.

Then they trumpet their success to the media who dutifully propagandizes the American people.

But what happens if one of these stings goes wrong? What if the FBI fails to stop their target before he goes through with it?

Could that be the case in Orlando?

I don't presume to know the answer, but it's a question worth asking, especially when one considers the fact that the shooter was indeed in contact with the FBI.

Most people with mental illness are more than capable of being responsible gun owners

[donttread]

Hate to think it true but I wouldn't either put it past our government.

I've always wondered about the Boston bombing

[Ethereal]

Is It Possible...



Is It Possible...

...that you are actually a botched abortion attempt?

There are plenty of documented examples of your idiotic nonsense that no normal, non-brain damaged person would ever utter publicly.

Why is the mere possibility that this was the result of a botched FBI sting operation so upsetting to you?

Oh right.

It's because the state is your god and its agents your high priests.

How dare a lowly plebeian like myself question their methods or their motives.

[Crepitus]

Because?
My understanding is that in other cases they've been on the guy 24/7 and they would have had to drop the ball pretty far for him to this without them having any idea what was going on.

[Ethereal]

My understanding is that in other cases they've been on the guy 24/7 and they would have had to drop the ball pretty far for him to this without them having any idea what was going on.

What do you mean by "on the guy"? Direct observation by FBI agents at all times?

[Chris]

Another look at the possibility of false flag, facts in this case, facts in some previous cases: 5 Reasons To Question The Official Story Of The Orlando Shooting (http://www.activistpost.com/2016/06/5-reasons-to-question-the-official-story-of-the-orlando-shooting.html?utm_source=Activist+Post+Subscribers&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=770f9ec772-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_term=0_b0c7fb76bd-770f9ec772-369077697).

[Ethereal]

Another look at the possibility of false flag, facts in this case, facts in some previous cases: 5 Reasons To Question The Official Story Of The Orlando Shooting (http://www.activistpost.com/2016/06/5-reasons-to-question-the-official-story-of-the-orlando-shooting.html?utm_source=Activist+Post+Subscribers&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=770f9ec772-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_term=0_b0c7fb76bd-770f9ec772-369077697).

I don't want to use the word "false flag" because it implies somehow that the act was intentional.

I'm not ruling it out, but I want to limit the scope of this discussion to simple incompetence.

[Chris]

I don't want to use the word "false flag" because it implies somehow that the act was intentional.

I'm not ruling it out, but I want to limit the scope of this discussion to simple incompetence.

OK, understood. The author of the piece went that far in suggestion.

[Crepitus]

What do you mean by "on the guy"? Direct observation by FBI agents at all times?
That was my impression. I could always be wrong of course.

[Crepitus]

What do you mean by "on the guy"? Direct observation by FBI agents at all times?
I would also think that if they were leading him on they would know enough not to mention hezbolla and isis in the same breath.

[Peter1469]

Is It Possible...



Is It Possible...

...that you are actually a botched abortion attempt?

There are plenty of documented examples of your idiotic nonsense that no normal, non-brain damaged person would ever utter publicly.

True to form....

[Ethereal]

FBI spied on Orlando gay club terrorist Omar Mateen for 10 months in 2013: FBI Director James Comey (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/orlando-gay-club-shooter-omar-mateen-called-911-bathroom-article-1.2671481)

...

Nevertheless, FBI investigators investigated Mateen, who was born in New York, for 10 months. They introduced him to confidential informants, spied on his communications and followed him. They also interviewed him twice.

...


BEFORE NIGHTCLUB SHOOTING, FBI PURSUED QUESTIONABLE FLORIDA “TERROR” SUSPECTS (https://theintercept.com/2016/06/12/before-nightclub-shooting-fbi-pursued-questionable-florida-terror-suspects/)

...

For more than a year ending in April — a time during which investigators will now be looking for any clues from Mateen that might have been missed — the FBI in Miami focused on a counterterrorism sting that targeted James Medina, a homeless man with mental problems.

An FBI informant recorded conversations with Medina in which he expressed interest in attacking a Jewish community center. Medina did not have weapons or connections to international terrorists. In fact, he was known in homeless circles, not terrorism ones.

“C’mon, man, no terrorist is homeless,” Rick Wallace, who volunteered to serve lunch to homeless people in South Florida, told Local 10 ABC investigative reporter Bob Norman. “Who did he not threaten? He was insane.”

According to the FBI’s affidavit, the informant, not Medina, came up with the idea of crediting the planned attack to the Islamic State.

“You can do all that,” Medina told the informant. “Yeah, we can print up or something and make it look like it’s ISIS here in America. Just like that.”

...

Regardless of whether or not this was a botched sting of some sort, it's pretty clear that the FBI dropped the ball.

[Ethereal]

FBI Still Concealing Almost All of What the Orlando Gunman Said (https://theintercept.com/2016/06/20/fbi-releases-partial-redacted-transcript-orlando-gunmans-911-calls-attack/)

[Cletus]

It's possible and worth considering, but outside of contact with the FBI there doesn't seem to be any real evidence of it yet.

I agree.

It wouldn't be the first time the Feds screwed up. Fast and Furious is a great example of that. Another example is what happened at Ruby Ridge. It was an undercover federal agent who coerced Weaver into illegally modifying the shotgun that gave them the reason to raid his property.

That said, there is no evidence to date of any FBI involvement in this incident.

[donttread]

...that the terrorist attack in Orlando was actually a botched FBI sting?

There are plenty of documented examples of the FBI concocting terrorist attacks so that they can arrest the perpetrator before he or she has the chance to follow through on their "plans".

Here are a few of them:

Another “Terror” Arrest; Another Mentally Ill Man, Armed by the FBI (https://theintercept.com/2015/07/13/another-terror-arrest-another-mentally-ill-man-armed-fbi/)

US: Terrorism Prosecutions Often An Illusion (https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/21/us-terrorism-prosecutions-often-illusion)

Why Does the FBI Have to Manufacture its Own Plots if Terrorism and ISIS Are Such Grave Threats? (https://theintercept.com/2015/02/26/fbi-manufacture-plots-terrorism-isis-grave-threats/)

CHRISTIE'S CONSPIRACY: The Real Story Behind the Fort Dix Five Terror Plot (https://theintercept.com/2015/06/25/fort-dix-five-terror-plot-the-real-story/)

Basically, the FBI looks for a mentally unstable person who they can persuade to commit a terrorist attack, provides them with weaponry (sometimes real, sometimes fake), and then arrests them before they actually go through with it.

Then they trumpet their success to the media who dutifully propagandizes the American people.

But what happens if one of these stings goes wrong? What if the FBI fails to stop their target before he goes through with it?

Could that be the case in Orlando?

I don't presume to know the answer, but it's a question worth asking, especially when one considers the fact that the shooter was indeed in contact with the FBI.

The FBI's connection to the Boston bombers and this guy in Orlando are troubling. I'm not quite ready to use the "double f word" but these connections are not unnoticed.

[donttread]

I agree.

It wouldn't be the first time the Feds screwed up. Fast and Furious is a great example of that. Another example is what happened at Ruby Ridge. It was an undercover federal agent who coerced Weaver into illegally modifying the shotgun that gave them the reason to raid his property.

That said, there is no evidence to date of any FBI involvement in this incident.

Screws are one thing this could be beyong that. But as you say there is no evidence of that. Of course if I robbed a bank and got to investigate the crime there wouldn't be any evidence either

[Bo-4]

Of God .. take your Alex Jones false flag and shove it - hard and deep ...

Thanks in advance

http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/alex-jones-on-orlando-massacre-its-a-government-cover-up/#!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t8nI1nfnepo/TUmhYouGbuI/AAAAAAAAAKg/kjj4C8DMFcA/s200/Caution%2B-%2BTin%2BFoil%2BHat%2BArea.jpg

[Bo-4]

WOW; just wow. This forum seldom disjoints when it comes to raw exposed mental retardation.

This is the saddest thing i've read from an extreme righty in a month.

[Ethereal]

Of God .. take your Alex Jones false flag and shove it - hard and deep ...

Thanks in advance

http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/alex-jones-on-orlando-massacre-its-a-government-cover-up/#!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t8nI1nfnepo/TUmhYouGbuI/AAAAAAAAAKg/kjj4C8DMFcA/s200/Caution%2B-%2BTin%2BFoil%2BHat%2BArea.jpg

You're lying.

I did not say it was a false flag.

[Ethereal]

This is the saddest thing i've read from an extreme righty in a month.

Yea, except what you "read" was not what I actually said.

[The Xl]

Could have merely been a botch. Could have been a false flag too. The government has done it before, and no amount of labeling or dismissal will change that fact.

[Ethereal]

Could have merely been a botch. Could have been a false flag too. The government has done it before, and no amount of labeling or dismissal will change that fact.

Yea, but some people have a religious faith in the competency and nobility of the state, so anyone who questions those articles of faith is subject to ridicule and scorn by its legion of cultists.

[The Xl]

Yea, but some people have a religious faith in the competency and nobility of the state, so anyone who questions those articles of faith is subject to ridicule and scorn by its legion of cultists.

Yeah, true. Good thing that I don't care about the opinions of those indoctrinated morons.

[Bo-4]

You're lying.

I did not say it was a false flag.

Your insinuation met every imaginable definition of "false flag".

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t8nI1nfnepo/TUmhYouGbuI/AAAAAAAAAKg/kjj4C8DMFcA/s200/Caution%2B-%2BTin%2BFoil%2BHat%2BArea.jpg

[Ethereal]

Your insinuation met every imaginable definition of "false flag".

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t8nI1nfnepo/TUmhYouGbuI/AAAAAAAAAKg/kjj4C8DMFcA/s200/Caution%2B-%2BTin%2BFoil%2BHat%2BArea.jpg

Maybe if you repeat your lie a few more times, it will come true.

[Ethereal]

Bo-4 is still butt-hurt from the last time I spanked him.

Now he's out for some revenge.

But all he can think to do is lie about what I said.

C'mon, Bo. You can do better than that.

[Private Pickle]

Bo-4 is still but-hurt from the last time I spanked him.

Now he's out for some revenge.

But all he can think to do is lie about what I said.

C'mon, Bo. You can do better than that.

No he can't.

[Ethereal]

No he can't.

True.

The last time he was here, he tried to pretend like the time stamp on one of his posts didn't actually exist.

Think of the level of dishonesty that requires.

[Mac-7]

Of God .. take your Alex Jones false flag and shove it - hard and deep ...

Thanks in advance

http://www.wnd.com/2016/06/alex-jones-on-orlando-massacre-its-a-government-cover-up/#!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t8nI1nfnepo/TUmhYouGbuI/AAAAAAAAAKg/kjj4C8DMFcA/s200/Caution%2B-%2BTin%2BFoil%2BHat%2BArea.jpg

The obumer FBI was alerted to the muslim Boston bombers by the russians but did nothing.

the obumer FBI knew about this muslim wacko but did nothing.

Do you see a pattern here?

I sure do

[donttread]

And I'm not saying there had to be intent on the FBI's part. It could have simply been incompetence.

And even if this wasn't a botched sting, it's still worth asking about the propriety of such sting operations.

Because the FBI is playing a very dangerous game.

A slip-up seems inevitable.

Whatever occured don't let them use incompetence as an excuse, like at Ruby Ridge, Waco, Fast and furious, the occupation of Iraq, etc. Nobody is that incompetent that often

[donttread]

I will never understand why some people give the government the benefit of the doubt when history is replete with examples of them behaving in the most insane manner.

And I'm not even saying it had to be intentional, merely the result of incompetence.

Is that so hard to believe, that the government was incompetent?

Again nobody is that incompetent that often. . False flag, via winding a nut case up and them letting him go has to be looked at a possibility both here and in Boston.

[Ethereal]

FBI AGENT GOADED GARLAND SHOOTER TO “TEAR UP TEXAS,” RAISING NEW ALARMS ABOUT BUREAU’S METHODS (https://theintercept.com/2016/08/09/fbi-agent-goaded-garland-shooter-to-tear-up-texas-raising-new-alarms-about-bureaus-methods/)

Murtaza Hussain
Aug. 9 2016, 9:16 a.m.

THE REVELATION THAT an undercover FBI agent encouraged a would-be terrorist to “Tear up Texas” shortly before he opened fire on a “Draw Muhammad” cartoon contest in Garland, Texas, last year raises new concerns about FBI counterterrorism efforts that were already under fire for manufacturing terrorism cases rather than halting them.

According to an affidavit filed in a related case last week, Elton Simpson — one of two men who donned body armor and fired assault weapons before being shot dead by a Garland police officer — had been corresponding with an undercover FBI agent. And in a text message roughly a week before the attack, as they discussed the cartoon contest, the agent had exhorted Simpson to “Tear up Texas.”

...

The unlikely is slowly becoming the probable.

[Standing Wolf]

Possible botched set-up and sting? Absolutely. Not a stretch at all. False flag operation? Highly unlikely.