View Full Version : tPF FBI sinks Hillary
Peter1469
07-06-2016, 02:32 PM
FBI sinks Hillary (http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/07/05/fbi-comey-clinton-email-trump-bernie-politics-campaign-column/86712780/)
People have been debating what the FBI did yesterday. To refer an indictment or not to do so. Put that aside: the Director's statement destroys her credibility. It clearly shows she has lied to Congress and to the American people every step of the way. A recommendation for indictment would have been seen as another part of the "vast right wing conspiracy." And Obama would have pardoned her anyway.
The text of the statement is here (https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b.-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system).
Hillary Clinton got her wish that the FBI would not recommend criminal charges for her homebrew email setup. Now she will suffer the consequences.
On Tuesday, FBI Director James Comey (https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b.-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system) announced that although “there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.” He cited “a number of factors” in reaching this decision, beyond the possibly criminal acts.
So Hillary skates? Not hardly. In fact, this could be the worst outcome possible.
Had a recommendation for indictment come down, it would not have slowed Hillary’s march to the nomination. Democrats have demonstrated they will support her no matter what. And had actual charges been filed, the process is so slow that she would probably not have faced significant court proceedings before the election. If the topic ever arose on the campaign trail, she would have said it was an ongoing process in the hands of her attorneys and declined to comment.
Instead she is left with an investigation that found her perilously incompetent, calling into question her fitness for office. Director Comey said she and her staff were “were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information” to which “hostile actors (https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b.-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system)” might have been able to gain access. The FBI did find that "hostile actors gained access to the private commercial e-mail accounts of people with whom Secretary Clinton was in regular contact from her personal account."
So in the view of the FBI, Hillary Clinton is a blundering fool who compromised national security but not a provable arch-criminal. This is not what the country needs in a president. “Dangerously negligent but never indicted” is an extremely low bar to set for the leadership of the free world. And it kills Hillary’s argument that she would be a highly skilled chief executive.
Cigar
07-06-2016, 02:36 PM
Mitch McConnell says the American public wants to hear the FBI interview of Hillary ... O'really :laugh:Since when does anything the American public want, mean jack sh!t to Mitch McConnell?
The American public, Democrat and Republicans alike overwhelmingly want to have a vote one SCOTUS nominee Garland, but Mitch won't let that happen.
domer76
07-06-2016, 02:40 PM
FBI sinks Hillary (http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/07/05/fbi-comey-clinton-email-trump-bernie-politics-campaign-column/86712780/)
People have been debating what the FBI did yesterday. To refer an indictment or not to do so. Put that aside: the Director's statement destroys her credibility. It clearly shows she has lied to Congress and to the American people every step of the way. A recommendation for indictment would have been seen as another part of the "vast right wing conspiracy." And Obama would have pardoned her anyway.
The text of the statement is here (https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b.-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system).
Odd that many of you RW jackasses were calling Comey the blundering fool just yesterday
Peter1469
07-06-2016, 02:46 PM
Mitch McConnell says the American public wants to hear the FBI interview of Hillary ... O'really :laugh:
Since when does anything the American public want, mean jack sh!t to Mitch McConnell?
The American public, Democrat and Republicans alike overwhelmingly want to have a vote one SCOTUS nominee Garland, but Mitch won't let that happen.
That isn't going to happen.
Peter1469
07-06-2016, 02:47 PM
Odd that many of you RW jackasses were calling Comey the blundering fool just yesterday
Link to where I said anything except that he is honorable and well respected.
After that, get back on topic.
FindersKeepers
07-06-2016, 02:48 PM
FBI sinks Hillary (http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/07/05/fbi-comey-clinton-email-trump-bernie-politics-campaign-column/86712780/)
People have been debating what the FBI did yesterday. To refer an indictment or not to do so. Put that aside: the Director's statement destroys her credibility. It clearly shows she has lied to Congress and to the American people every step of the way. A recommendation for indictment would have been seen as another part of the "vast right wing conspiracy." And Obama would have pardoned her anyway.
The BBC is running a similar piece:
Why it's bad...
Mrs Clinton said she hadn't sent classified information. The FBI found more than 100 of her 30,000 emails contained details that were classified "at the time" they were transmitted and "a very small number" even had classified markings.
She also said she had turned over all her work-related messages, but in fact her lawyers relied on keyword searches to sort through the email files and consequently missed several thousand relevant documents.
Major media fact-checkers were quick to survey the scope of the damage.
Politifact said (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/03/hillary-clinton/fact-checking-clintons-claim-she-never-received-no/) the FBI "clearly undercuts Clinton's defence". The Washington Post upgraded (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/08/27/clintons-claims-about-receiving-or-sending-classified-material-on-her-private-email-system/) its verdict on the veracity of Mrs Clinton's classified information claims from two to four "Pinocchios". The Associated Press wrote (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/ap-fact-check-hillary-clinton-email-claims-collapse-under-fbi-n604526) that the FBI "left much of her account in tatters and may have aggravated questions of trust swirling around her Democratic presidential candidacy".
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36719054
The FBI announcement reinforces the "Crooked Hillary" label. Does the nation want a leader who is "extremely careless" with our national security?
Common Sense
07-06-2016, 02:50 PM
I don't think it's going to hurt her much. Nothing new was revealed other than the fact that no criminal charges will be filled.
I'd like to think that when people go to the polls and have to choose between someone who used the wrong email server and a narcissistic clown, they will make the sane choice.
MisterVeritis
07-06-2016, 02:57 PM
I don't think it's going to hurt her much. Nothing new was revealed other than the fact that no criminal charges will be filled.
I'd like to think that when people go to the polls and have to choose between someone who used the wrong email server and a narcissistic clown, they will make the sane choice.
Embrace Crooked Hillary. Your leftism has corrupted you.
Cigar
07-06-2016, 03:11 PM
That isn't going to happen.
Neither is a Hillary Indictment ... :grin: ... now we're Clear?
Cigar
07-06-2016, 03:12 PM
Embrace Crooked Hillary. Your leftism has corrupted you.
Sure beats embracing a Twitter Fool :laugh:
What happened is that if they indict her, it sinks her presidency....they did the only thing they could reasonably do...it was a long shot and it failed. It will sink her anyway. Many many many people think she is guilty as hell, even Bernie supporters who are, btw, turning to Trump.
Truth Detector
07-06-2016, 03:21 PM
Hillary Clinton Caught on Camera Lying About Secret Email Server
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25U-kOJLWLM
She's been caught in so many lies no one cares anymore. She's toast.
JDubya
07-06-2016, 03:32 PM
FBI sinks Hillary (http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/07/05/fbi-comey-clinton-email-trump-bernie-politics-campaign-column/86712780/)
People have been debating what the FBI did yesterday. To refer an indictment or not to do so. Put that aside: the Director's statement destroys her credibility. It clearly shows she has lied to Congress and to the American people every step of the way. A recommendation for indictment would have been seen as another part of the "vast right wing conspiracy." And Obama would have pardoned her anyway.
The text of the statement is here (https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b.-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system).
What happened is that if they indict her, it sinks her presidency....they did the only thing they could reasonably do...it was a long shot and it failed. It will sink her anyway. Many many many people think she is guilty as hell, even Bernie supporters who are, btw, turning to Trump.
It's funny watching you clowns reassuring yourselves and rationalizing that your dreams of a defeated Hillary Clinton are not dead yet.
AZ Jim
07-06-2016, 03:37 PM
What happened is that if they indict her, it sinks her presidency....they did the only thing they could reasonably do...it was a long shot and it failed. It will sink her anyway. Many many many people think she is guilty as hell, even Bernie supporters who are, btw, turning to Trump.Thanks for your uninformed bullshit, the garden needed a pickmeup.
Truth Detector
07-06-2016, 03:42 PM
Fox’s Bret Baier Grills Hillary Clinton on Emails: ‘Not Accurate’ to Claim No Classified Info
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32SSjguk9qA
Truth Detector
07-06-2016, 03:43 PM
It's funny watching you clowns reassuring yourselves and rationalizing that your dreams of a defeated Hillary Clinton are not dead yet.
Dumber still to see leftist twits supporting a corrupt, sociopathic, unaccomplished Harpy. :rofl:
Truth Detector
07-06-2016, 03:43 PM
Thanks for your uninformed bull$#@!, the garden needed a pickmeup.
:rofl:
Peter1469
07-06-2016, 03:50 PM
Neither is a Hillary Indictment ... :grin: ... now we're Clear?
It may. The statute of limitations has a while to run.
Peter1469
07-06-2016, 03:51 PM
It's funny watching you clowns reassuring yourselves and rationalizing that your dreams of a defeated Hillary Clinton are not dead yet.
This is a tPF thread. Discuss the topic like an adult. We have another thread for the childish games.
https://youtu.be/wbkS26PX4rc
Truth Detector
07-06-2016, 04:03 PM
https://youtu.be/wbkS26PX4rc
Best video to date to illustrate the lying sociopath and the corrupt state of mind of this Administration and the FBI.
Peter1469
07-06-2016, 04:03 PM
I imagine it will get a lot of hits between now and November.
zelmo1234
07-06-2016, 04:05 PM
I don't think it's going to hurt her much. Nothing new was revealed other than the fact that no criminal charges will be filled.
I'd like to think that when people go to the polls and have to choose between someone who used the wrong email server and a narcissistic clown, they will make the sane choice.
If you want to see someone that is not fit, an Narcissist and with a temperament that is not fitting to lead.
You need to read the Crisis of Character the new book by the SS member that was with the Clintons when they lived in the Whitehouse.
She is the lowest from of human life.
Trump is a NYC street kid, and he speech is rough, but his heart is in the right place.
Common Sense
07-06-2016, 04:11 PM
If you want to see someone that is not fit, an Narcissist and with a temperament that is not fitting to lead.
You need to read the Crisis of Character the new book by the SS member that was with the Clintons when they lived in the Whitehouse.
She is the lowest from of human life.
Trump is a NYC street kid, and he speech is rough, but his heart is in the right place.
Then vote for the idiot.
Other SS agents have claimed that Byrne is most likely making up a lot of the book.
The hatred that liberals throw at people with differing opinions is indeed puzzling. I've got what, less then 20 posts here and already, for simply stating my opinion, the name calling and trolling have begun. And this, from the folks who always demand tolerance.
On a lighter note, this may have happened, but only in Clinton's mind.
15136
MisterVeritis
07-06-2016, 04:22 PM
Sure beats embracing a Twitter Fool :laugh:
I suppose when one is corrupt embracing corruption is no problem.That is why it is so easy for you.
Peter1469
07-06-2016, 04:25 PM
I expect historic low turnouts for the democrats this November. When push comes to shove people with integrity will not be able to vote for Hillary as protest vote over Trump.
Turnout in Dem primaries was down 21%.
MisterVeritis
07-06-2016, 04:26 PM
What happened is that if they indict her, it sinks her presidency....they did the only thing they could reasonably do...it was a long shot and it failed. It will sink her anyway. Many many many people think she is guilty as hell, even Bernie supporters who are, btw, turning to Trump.
The Corrupt and Cowardly Comey should have made the same speech yesterday right up to the point where he recommended that the attorney general impanel a grand jury to hear his evidence and indict Crooked Hillary. That was the right thing to do.
Instead we are stuck with this.
Common Sense
07-06-2016, 04:26 PM
The hatred that liberals throw at people with differing opinions is indeed puzzling. I've got what, less then 20 posts here and already, for simply stating my opinion, the name calling and trolling have begun. And this, from the folks who always demand tolerance.
On a lighter note, this may have happened, but only in Clinton's mind.
It's very much a two way street around here.
It's very much a two way street around here.
Well thank you, but I've not partaken of that pastime, and do not plan to. My passion comes from logically and methodically destroying the lefts nonsense, and showing how corrupt that can be by memes that I create, mostly.
Chris
07-06-2016, 04:30 PM
It is ironic that Comey's announcement keeping Hillary from prosecution ends up in a firestorm of discussion of her lies and extreme carelessness.
zelmo1234
07-06-2016, 04:31 PM
Then vote for the idiot.
Other SS agents have claimed that Byrne is most likely making up a lot of the book.
Do you have a link to that?
It is ironic that Comey's announcement keeping Hillary from prosecution ends up in a firestorm of discussion of her lies and extreme carelessness.
I believe that while welcome to me, this was not the intention of the dem machine. It has backfired big time and I think it will help bring about a Trump landslide.
Common Sense
07-06-2016, 04:35 PM
Well thank you, but I've not partaken of that pastime, and do not plan to. My passion comes from logically and methodically destroying the lefts nonsense, and showing how corrupt that can be by memes that I create, mostly.
My only point was that both the left and the right and those in between all tend to give as good as they get.
Welcome, by the way...
Chris
07-06-2016, 04:37 PM
I believe that while welcome to me, this was not the intention of the dem machine. It has backfired big time and I think it will help bring about a Trump landslide.
It's certainly backfired on the immediate reactions of gleeful dancing in the street by the left.
Don't think it will be a landslide, her followers and fellow travelers are entrenched deep with their heels dug in. If Comey had recommended prosecution, it wouldn't have changed their minds. She could be convicted and still get their vote.
Chris
07-06-2016, 04:37 PM
My only point was that both the left and the right and those in between all tend to give as good as they get.
Welcome, by the way...
Just another fallacious argument from hypocrisy.
Thank you, Common sense.
You know, one can only think that the dem machine was hoping, and even figured, that the people who for whatever reason support Clinton, would see this failed attempt at indictment, as yet another right wing attempt at toppling her. I think it has polarized people more then they know, and not in her favor.
Common Sense
07-06-2016, 04:38 PM
I think people have already made up their minds. I also think a lot of people didn't actually understand the email controversy.
I think the debates will have the biggest impact.
Common Sense
07-06-2016, 04:40 PM
Just another fallacious argument from hypocrisy.
Oh Christ...are you still all pissy? Grow up.
maineman
07-06-2016, 04:41 PM
It is ironic that Comey's announcement keeping Hillary from prosecution ends up in a firestorm of discussion of her lies and extreme carelessness.
It is ironic that Comey's announcement keeping Hillary from prosecution ends up in a firestorm of discussion of her lies and extreme carelessness on isolated internet political chat rooms while the vast majority of the middle of the bell curve voters aren't paying much attention to pre-convention politics on either side of the aisle and won't really become engaged until after Labor Day. (fixed that for ya!)
Chris
07-06-2016, 04:43 PM
It is ironic that Comey's announcement keeping Hillary from prosecution ends up in a firestorm of discussion of her lies and extreme carelessness on isolated internet political chat rooms while the vast majority of the middle of the bell curve voters aren't paying much attention to pre-convention politics on either side of the aisle and won't really become engaged until after Labor Day. (fixed that for ya!)
Last night went to bed and turned on CNN and it was all the talk. I realized then today would be a firestorm.
Chris
07-06-2016, 04:44 PM
Oh Christ...are you still all pissy? Grow up.
The name is Chris. :D
Just pointing out another logical fallacy from you. Don't get so upset. Stop committing them.
Ethereal
07-06-2016, 04:46 PM
Comey basically told everyone what they already knew.
Hillary Clinton is a liar who broke the law and will not be prosecuted.
In other news, water is wet.
Ethereal
07-06-2016, 04:47 PM
The name is Chris. :D
Just pointing out another logical fallacy from you. Don't get so upset. Stop committing them.
If you disagree with a leftist, that means you're pissy or butt-hurt. Duh!
Common Sense
07-06-2016, 05:06 PM
The name is Chris. :D
Just pointing out another logical fallacy from you. Don't get so upset. Stop committing them.
LOL...you'll get over it eventually. It's just a message board.
Ethereal
07-06-2016, 05:08 PM
LOL...you'll get over it eventually. It's just a message board.
More patented Common Sense double standards. Hilarious!
AZ Jim
07-06-2016, 05:44 PM
[QUOTE=zelmo1234;1625419]If you want to see someone that is not fit, an Narcissist and with a temperament that is not fitting to lead.
You need to read the Crisis of Character the new book by the SS member that was with the Clintons when they lived in the Whitehouse.
She is the lowest from of human life.
Trump is a NYC street kid, and he speech is rough, but his heart is in the right place.[/QUOTE zelmo1234! "Trump is a NYC street kid, and he speech is rough, but his heart is in the right place." Are you a complete imbecile? Trump went to private schools, including military academy, the son of a billionaire and he started his "career" with 40 million in seed money. Street kid my ass....wake up you are embracing a spoiled rich kid with a huge ego and you are his fool!!!
JDubya
07-06-2016, 05:48 PM
This is a tPF thread. Discuss the topic like an adult. We have another thread for the childish games.
This hypocrisy coming from you of all people is truly a joke, Peter1469
Learn how to take your own advice.
Peter1469
07-06-2016, 05:52 PM
I imagine some of Hillary's fans are not moved by the FBI directors systematic dismantling of her lies.
Ethereal
07-06-2016, 05:53 PM
This hypocrisy coming from you of all people is truly a joke, @Peter1469 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=10)
Learn how to take your own advice.
How can a hypocrite like you go around pointing out the nonexistent hypocrisy of others? Isn't that doubly hypocritical?
maineman
07-06-2016, 06:08 PM
How can a hypocrite like you go around pointing out the nonexistent hypocrisy of others? Isn't that doubly hypocritical?
That post is like a verbal mobius strip!
gamewell45
07-06-2016, 07:00 PM
People have been debating what the FBI did yesterday. To refer an indictment or not to do so. Put that aside: the Director's statement destroys her credibility. It clearly shows she has lied to Congress and to the American people every step of the way. A recommendation for indictment would have been seen as another part of the "vast right wing conspiracy." And Obama would have pardoned her anyway.
If that's the case, then why discuss it in the first place?? After all, Obama will pardon her anyhow so at this point discussion is completely useless.
Peter1469
07-06-2016, 07:04 PM
If that's the case, then why discuss it in the first place?? After all, Obama will pardon her anyhow so at this point discussion is completely useless.
I figure the Director knew if she was indicted two things would happen:
1. Dems would rally and cry right wing conspiracy.
2. Obama would pardon her
This way he destroyed her. It is still sinking in for the hard left. They better start looking for another nominee.
Common Sense
07-06-2016, 07:19 PM
I figure the Director knew if she was indicted two things would happen:
1. Dems would rally and cry right wing conspiracy.
2. Obama would pardon her
This way he destroyed her. It is still sinking in for the hard left. They better start looking for another nominee.
It's certainly amazing how people can see the same thing and draw two disparate conclusions.
Ethereal
07-06-2016, 07:23 PM
That post is like a verbal mobius strip!
Are you sure it's not a Lorentzian Manifold?
MisterVeritis
07-06-2016, 07:30 PM
I figure the Director knew if she was indicted two things would happen:
1. Dems would rally and cry right wing conspiracy.
2. Obama would pardon her
This way he destroyed her. It is still sinking in for the hard left. They better start looking for another nominee.
But recommending an indictment was still the right thing for Comey to do and he failed the nation. What we have today is second best.
maineman
07-06-2016, 07:47 PM
Are you sure it's not a Lorentzian Manifold?
no. honestly. I'm not. I googled that and, after about five minutes, my head hurts. thanks. ;)
domer76
07-06-2016, 08:11 PM
Best video to date to illustrate the lying sociopath and the corrupt state of mind of this Administration and the FBI.
Why don't you just toss in unelected, activist judges to round out your whine?
domer76
07-06-2016, 08:12 PM
If you want to see someone that is not fit, an Narcissist and with a temperament that is not fitting to lead.
You need to read the Crisis of Character the new book by the SS member that was with the Clintons when they lived in the Whitehouse.
She is the lowest from of human life.
Trump is a NYC street kid, and he speech is rough, but his heart is in the right place.
His heart is near where his head is. The head being up his ass and his heart in his wallet.
domer76
07-06-2016, 08:14 PM
Well thank you, but I've not partaken of that pastime, and do not plan to. My passion comes from logically and methodically destroying the lefts nonsense, and showing how corrupt that can be by memes that I create, mostly.
When do you start?
domer76
07-06-2016, 08:15 PM
I believe that while welcome to me, this was not the intention of the dem machine. It has backfired big time and I think it will help bring about a Trump landslide.
Change your name to Out of Tune Oboe
I expect historic low turnouts for the democrats this November. When push comes to shove people with integrity will not be able to vote for Hillary as protest vote over Trump.
Turnout in Dem primaries was down 21%.
If you got that from a news source, like you did, please stop.
Peter1469
07-07-2016, 05:15 AM
But recommending an indictment was still the right thing for Comey to do and he failed the nation. What we have today is second best.
It is very likely she would have gotten more votes under indictment / a pardon.
This way only people with no standards will vote for the serial liar.
Peter1469
07-07-2016, 05:16 AM
If you got that from a news source, like you did, please stop.
The first sentence is mine. The % I pulled from an article that I posted yesterday.
Quicksilver
07-07-2016, 10:00 AM
It is very likely she would have gotten more votes under indictment / a pardon.
This way only people with no standards will vote for the serial liar.
Well... NOW that we know the FBI investigation was biased and Comey a liar............. Perhaps Trump WILL win... the Right Likes liars.
Cigar
07-07-2016, 12:41 PM
Representative John Mica (R-Florida) just admitted why this interrogation is happening. He said it’s because he and his republican colleagues have to go home this weekend and ‘splain to their donors why the Republican director of the FBI couldn’t be brought on board for the failed witch hunt, and Republicans HATE having to be accountable to anyone for anything.
:laugh:
Safety
07-07-2016, 01:10 PM
I don't think it's going to hurt her much. Nothing new was revealed other than the fact that no criminal charges will be filled.
I'd like to think that when people go to the polls and have to choose between someone who used the wrong email server and a narcissistic clown, they will make the sane choice.
I think at this point, most conservatives would prefer if Obama just declared Martial law and stayed president...
when does peter get his shoelaces and belt back?
MisterVeritis
07-07-2016, 01:19 PM
It is very likely she would have gotten more votes under indictment / a pardon.
This way only people with no standards will vote for the serial liar.
That is not an adequate excuse for failing to do the right thing. Comey cracked under pressure and failed the nation.
Truth Detector
07-07-2016, 01:19 PM
Well... NOW that we know the FBI investigation was biased and Comey a liar............. Perhaps Trump WILL win... the Right Likes liars.
If you support Hillary, the irony is all yours. :laugh:
Truth Detector
07-07-2016, 01:20 PM
Representative John Mica (R-Florida) just admitted why this interrogation is happening. He said it’s because he and his republican colleagues have to go home this weekend and ‘splain to their donors why the Republican director of the FBI couldn’t be brought on board for the failed witch hunt, and Republicans HATE having to be accountable to anyone for anything.
:laugh:
Link?
Truth Detector
07-07-2016, 01:20 PM
I think at this point, most conservatives would prefer if Obama just declared Martial law and stayed president...
You're actually NOT thinking if this is what you "think." DERP
Chris
07-07-2016, 01:20 PM
Well... NOW that we know the FBI investigation was biased and Comey a liar............. Perhaps Trump WILL win... the Right Likes liars.
Link?
Subdermal
07-07-2016, 01:31 PM
Jason Chaffetz is eviscerating the credibility of the FBI decision right now. He's pointing out BLATANT perjury and violations of law.
Hillary perjured herself to Congress; Hillary shared classified information with those without clearance. Comey is not justifying his decision well under this withering line of question from Chaffetz.
zelmo1234
07-07-2016, 01:34 PM
[QUOTE=zelmo1234;1625419]If you want to see someone that is not fit, an Narcissist and with a temperament that is not fitting to lead.
You need to read the Crisis of Character the new book by the SS member that was with the Clintons when they lived in the Whitehouse.
She is the lowest from of human life.
Trump is a NYC street kid, and he speech is rough, but his heart is in the right place.[/QUOTE @zelmo1234 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=588)! "Trump is a NYC street kid, and he speech is rough, but his heart is in the right place." Are you a complete imbecile? Trump went to private schools, including military academy, the son of a billionaire and he started his "career" with 40 million in seed money. Street kid my ass....wake up you are embracing a spoiled rich kid with a huge ego and you are his fool!!!
I don't Think Trump is fit to lead either.
But Hillary is not Fit to handle Classified Documents, It this questioning of Comey has reveled anything, it is totally and completely incompetent to deal with anything that is national security.
YES we have a terrible choice to make in November, but only one of the Candidates has emails out there that they can likely be bribed with
MisterVeritis
07-07-2016, 01:36 PM
. . .but only one of the Candidates has emails out there that they can likely be bribed with
Crooked Hillary cannot be bribed. Her prices are available for any interested foreign government.
Peter1469
07-07-2016, 02:34 PM
Well... NOW that we know the FBI investigation was biased and Comey a liar............. Perhaps Trump WILL win... the Right Likes liars.
I don't think the FBI investigation was biased and that Comey is a liar. What makes you think so?
Common Sense
07-07-2016, 02:35 PM
I don't think the FBI investigation was biased and that Comey is a liar. What makes you think so?
It seems to be a quite a common theme around here among conservatives.
Peter1469
07-07-2016, 02:38 PM
CNN seem to agree with me.
The fundamental problem Clinton can't shake (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/05/opinions/hillary-clinton-fbi-robbins/index.html)
The FBI didn't recommend an indictment, but they did trash her and her character.
Today, the world's most boring political scandal reached an unsatisfying conclusion: Hilary Clinton has been cleared of criminal liability for allegations she mishandled classified information by using a private email server when she was the secretary of state.
Why is it unsatisfying? Because it confirms everything that we hate about the current state of politics. There are no winners today, only losers: the American public.
The FBI director, James Comey, appeared to be frustrated -- and fuming -- at the press conference where he announced the findings. It was a beat-down, even though he was backing away from an indictment. After an investigation that lasted longer than a year, a review of more than 30,000 emails and interviews with more than a dozen people, the decision not to formally charge Clinton came down to this, he said:
Read more at the link.
MisterVeritis
07-07-2016, 05:13 PM
I don't think the FBI investigation was biased and that Comey is a liar. What makes you think so?
I don't think he is a liar either. But he is corrupt and/or cowardly. He had his moment and he folded. He made the case for indictment and then walked away from it.
Peter1469
07-07-2016, 05:15 PM
I don't think he is a liar either. But he is corrupt and/or cowardly. He had his moment and he folded. He made the case for indictment and then walked away from it.
The gross negligence part of the statute has not been tested. There may have been one case on it.
MisterVeritis
07-07-2016, 05:19 PM
CNN seem to agree with me.
The fundamental problem Clinton can't shake (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/05/opinions/hillary-clinton-fbi-robbins/index.html)
The FBI didn't recommend an indictment, but they did trash her and her character.
Read more at the link.
There is plenty in her story for everyone. Comey folded. But Comey also damaged Clinton. This is Trump's election to lose.
Still, Comey failed the nation. He confirmed, for all of us, that the corrupt and powerful are beyond the laws.
MisterVeritis
07-07-2016, 05:20 PM
The gross negligence part of the statute has not been tested. There may have been one case on it.
This was the perfect opportunity. Comey could have been a hero. I believe he will die a disgraced, broken man.
Common Sense
07-07-2016, 05:21 PM
Oh lord...
MisterVeritis
07-07-2016, 05:21 PM
It seems to be a quite a common theme around here among conservatives.
I don't believe you have been paying attention. Who, in your opinion, is both conservative and calling Comey a liar? Let's start there.
Common Sense
07-07-2016, 05:22 PM
I don't believe you have been paying attention. Who, in your opinion, is both conservative and calling Comey a liar? Let's start there.
Do you think Comey lied? Do you consider yourself a conservative?
MisterVeritis
07-07-2016, 05:49 PM
I don't believe you have been paying attention. Who, in your opinion, is both conservative and calling Comey a liar? Let's start there.
Do you think Comey lied? Do you consider yourself a conservative?
From my post #81:
I don't think he is a liar either. But he is corrupt and/or cowardly. He had his moment and he folded. He made the case for indictment and then walked away from it.
You are zero for one.
Common Sense
07-07-2016, 06:01 PM
I don't believe you have been paying attention. Who, in your opinion, is both conservative and calling Comey a liar? Let's start there.
From my post #81:
I don't think he is a liar either. But he is corrupt and/or cowardly. He had his moment and he folded. He made the case for indictment and then walked away from it.
You are zero for one.
So he's corrupt? So when asked questions he told the truth? How can he be both corrupt and telling the truth? You seem to be confused.
MisterVeritis
07-07-2016, 06:43 PM
So he's corrupt? So when asked questions he told the truth? How can he be both corrupt and telling the truth? You seem to be confused.
I am not confused at all. Comey told the truth when he laid out the perfect case for indicting Crooked Hillary. He is corrupt because he did not take the logical step of recommending her indictment. He may be blackmailed. He may be bribed. He may have been threatened. Or maybe he just wanted to be invited to the cool leftist parties. So he had his opportunity to be a hero and he failed.
domer76
07-07-2016, 06:52 PM
I am not confused at all. Comey told the truth when he laid out the perfect case for indicting Crooked Hillary. He is corrupt because he did not take the logical step of recommending her indictment. He may be blackmailed. He may be bribed. He may have been threatened. Or maybe he just wanted to be invited to the cool leftist parties. So he had his opportunity to be a hero and he failed.
He may be gay.
He may be transgender.
He may be a Nazi.
He may be a gay, transgender Nazi.
He may be the reincarnation of Vince Foster.
MisterVeritis
07-07-2016, 09:30 PM
He may be gay.
He may be transgender.
He may be a Nazi.
He may be a gay, transgender Nazi.
He may be the reincarnation of Vince Foster.
See, even you came up with a list of things that may be why he took the corrupt and cowardly path after laying out the case for an indictment recommendation. Between you and me, my list is better. And none require that Comey lie.
Peter1469
07-08-2016, 04:26 PM
Comey: A theory (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/comey-a-theory/2016/07/07/297f9bd0-4478-11e6-8856-f26de2537a9d_story.html?tid=hybrid_collaborative_1 _na)
Why did he do it? FBI Director James Comey spent 14 minutes laying out an unassailable case for prosecuting Hillary Clinton for the mishandling of classified material. Then at literally the last minute, he recommended against prosecution.
This is baffling. Under the statute (18 U.S.C. section 793(f) (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793)), it’s a felony to mishandle classified information either intentionally or “through gross negligence.” The evidence, as outlined by Comey, is overwhelming.
I would suggest that Comey’s thinking, whether conscious or not, was similar: He did not want the FBI director to end up as the arbiter of the 2016 presidential election. If Clinton were not a presumptive presidential nominee but simply a retired secretary of state, he might well have made a different recommendation.
So he laid out the evidence for the American people to repudiate that woman at the ballot box.
Peter1469
07-08-2016, 04:28 PM
I’m a lawyer specializing in security clearance cases. Hillary Clinton got off easy. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/im-a-lawyer-specializing-in-security-clearance-cases-hillary-clinton-got-off-easy/2016/07/07/38b10f3c-4480-11e6-bc99-7d269f8719b1_story.html)
John V. Berry is a Virginia lawyer who specializes in cases involving security clearances.
My legal practice involves representing clients denied or at risk of losing their security clearances. Facing the same set of facts outlined by FBI Director James B. Comey about Hillary Clinton and her aides, my less-well-known clients — whether an entry-level government contractor or a GS-14 federal employee — would be in serious jeopardy of losing their security clearances. In fact, I cannot foresee a situation in which an ordinary employee facing such allegations would be able to keep a security clearance with the types of concerns raised in the FBI findings.
I write this as a political centrist who tends to like Clinton as a candidate — but who is also frustrated by a lack of consistency in the security clearance process and a bias in favor of the well-connected. It is a problem that runs across the political spectrum and is not a Democratic or Republican issue, but rather a “who you are and who you know” issue.
The higher-profile the individual, the less likelihood, in most circumstances, of sanctions relating to security issues. In short, current security clearance policy factors in the importance of an individual in deciding whether to revoke a security clearance. Basically, lower-profile individuals get treated differently than those at the top of the political food chain facing the same concerns. Perhaps this is human nature, but it is wrong and should be fixed.
Clinton’s use of a personal server for classified government email, without appropriate approvals and security, would normally be treated as a serious security violation. Another security violation would be the storage and transmission of classified materials using personal (nongovernmental) means off site. Everyone involved in the setting up of the server, the transmission or storage of such information or knowledge of same would have had separate security obligations to follow regarding the rules for protecting classified information. Finally, providing classified information to defense lawyers who are not cleared to review such documents (as was alleged to have occurred) could also constitute a security violation for a regular employee.
Read more at the link.
MisterVeritis
07-08-2016, 06:53 PM
Comey: A theory (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/comey-a-theory/2016/07/07/297f9bd0-4478-11e6-8856-f26de2537a9d_story.html?tid=hybrid_collaborative_1 _na)
So he laid out the evidence for the American people to repudiate that woman at the ballot box.
Corrupt and cowardly Comey shirked his duty. If he lacked the balls to do what is right he should have stepped down. He is a pathetic piece of crap.
Peter1469
07-08-2016, 07:14 PM
Corrupt and cowardly Comey shirked his duty. If he lacked the balls to do what is right he should have stepped down. He is a pathetic piece of crap.
We can agree to disagree. Hillary indicted could have turned out worse. Rally the fans and pull in the dim-witted with the familiar cry of right-wing-conspiracy. Stay in the race. And Obama pardon her after the election. Or even before.
MisterVeritis
07-08-2016, 07:17 PM
We can agree to disagree. Hillary indicted could have turned out worse. Rally the fans and pull in the dim-witted with the familiar cry of right-wing-conspiracy. Stay in the race. And Obama pardon her after the election. Or even before.
He should have done the right thing because it was his duty to do so. This lousy capitulation ends national security. It greatly damages the FBI's reputation. It affirms that the government is wholly corrupt and ought to be overthrown.
This is a very bad thing. So yes, we can disagree.
Peter1469
07-08-2016, 07:18 PM
He should have done the right thing because it was his duty to do so. This lousy capitulation ends national security. It greatly damages the FBI's reputation. It affirms that the government is wholly corrupt and ought to be overthrown.
This is a very bad thing. So yes, we can disagree.
Sounds good.
Peter1469
07-09-2016, 05:58 PM
The Chicago Tribune opines.
Hillary Clinton disqualifies herself (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-hillary-clinton-emails-comey-kass-0708-20160707-column.html)
Well here is someone who gets it. Hillary proved herself to be unqualified for any position of trust at any level.
No matter what your tribal politics may be, after FBI (http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/crime-law-justice/fbi-ORGOV000008-topic.html) Director James Comey's withering testimony before Congress on Thursday over her email scandal, there really is no way around it, is there?
She disqualified herself by her own hand.
Mrs. Clinton, former secretary of state, has already proved she can't be trusted with national secrets. She put those secrets at risk by using a private email server kept in her basement, against security protocol.
That server was likely hacked by foreign intelligence. She failed, miserably, in protecting the secrets of her nation.
So for all this she should be rewarded and promoted and handed the near absolute power of an imperial presidency?
And, she lied to the American people. That much is clear. She lied about what she did and how and why. There are tapes of it floating all about on the internet, lies to reporters, lies in those rare public appearances where she actually takes questions.
Video at link.
Peter1469
07-11-2016, 03:45 PM
56% of Americans disapprove of the FBI not recommending indicting Hillary (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/11/poll-most-disapprove-of-fbi-decision-to-exonerate-clinton/).
However it doesn't seem to affect their votes.
A majority of Americans reject the FBI's recommendation against charging Hillary Clinton with a crime for her State Department e-mail practices and say the issue raises concerns about how she might perform her presidential duties, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll (http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/politics/post-abc-poll-reaction-to-fbi-decision-on-clinton-e-mail-use/2059/).
Six in 10 voters say the outcome will have no impact on their vote this November, even as those who do largely say it discourages them from backing the presumptive Democratic nominee.
Last week's decision by FBI Director James B. Comey resulted in the Justice Department's decision that Clinton would not face criminal prosecution which could have derailed her presidential bid. But Comey's sharp critique of Clinton's email practices and systematic dismantling (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-the-fbi-director-systematically-dismantled-hillary-clintons-email-defense/2016/07/05/55c444ba-42da-11e6-8856-f26de2537a9d_story.html?postshare=341467754670797&tid=ss_tw) of her public defenses stocked critics with fresh ammunition for the general election campaign.
Detailed numbers at the link.
MisterVeritis
07-11-2016, 04:07 PM
56% of Americans disapprove of the FBI not recommending indicting Hillary (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/11/poll-most-disapprove-of-fbi-decision-to-exonerate-clinton/).
However it doesn't seem to affect their votes.
Detailed numbers at the link.
The Democratic Party is not wholly corrupt. But that is the way to bet.
We see it here. Men and women with no integrity are delighted that Crooked Hilly won't be indicted and could become the President. It is as if they have a death wish.
Peter1469
07-11-2016, 04:11 PM
Here is an article from First Things, a journal on religion and public life (http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2016/07/the-irrelevance-of-hillarys-peccadilloes). The author doesn't think Hillary's criminality matters, and neither does Trump's bombast and vulgarity. The author says people who want the status quo will vote for Hillary, and those who want to chart a new path (like the Brexit vote) will vote Trump.
Clinton represents the status quo. The status quo is factious, of course. We hear a great deal about Washington gridlock. But the establishment consensus is strong, and most leaders accept it, some happily, some grudgingly. It defies easy summary, but I’ll try:
Globalization is inevitable. Diversity is a boon, not just for culture, but also for business. Human beings are primarily utility-maximizing machines, and thus politics is really an epiphenomenon of economics. History is on the side of the sexual revolution. America must run the world.
The establishment that subscribes to this consensus is not limited to a narrow leadership class. It extends to the well-educated, high-earning upper-middle class—the top 20, perhaps 25 percent. These are the people who, by and large, think that things are heading in the right direction. There are setbacks, yes, and problems to be addressed. Republicans and Democrats in this top quartile disagree, sometimes bitterly. But the consensus holds.
The establishment is not insensitive to the peccadillos of the Clintons, of which the law-bending private email account is just one instance. Those who pay attention are troubled by the Clintons’ invention of a postmodern political machine. The Clinton Global Initiative is transparently a vehicle for influence-peddling on a grand scale, and it sustains an extensive network of organizations, activists, and politicos.
In other circumstances, the bad odor of the Clintons would be off-putting. But our leadership class has just received a shock: They have become aware that their consensus isn’t as widely shared as they imagined. It turns out that the stakes are higher than anyone thought possible only recently, and that in light of them, Clinton’s character and trustworthiness hardly matter.
Trump challenges the notions that globalization is inevitable and that diversity is a good thing. We can pick apart the bombast in his America-First rhetoric, show the economic impossibilities of his protectionist gestures, and point out the irresponsible, divisive demagoguery in his talk of building a wall and suspending Muslim immigration. All this is true, but it is as irrelevant as Hillary’s emails. Voters see what Trump is after. They recognize in him a politician who, unlike Clinton and the status quo she represents, does not believe that globalization is inevitable and does not think that an ever more diverse nation welcoming ever more immigrants would be better than one that is more homogeneous and closed.
Similarly, Trump’s neo-isolationism overturns what have been the foundations of American foreign policy since the end of World War II. It’s telling that the Republicans most closely associated with muscular American internationalism have announced their support for Clinton. Who can worry about private servers when America’s unique role as guardian of the global order is suddenly in question?
The establishment is so shocked by the very possibility of the Trumpian alternative that they can’t conceptualize it as a political choice at all. Instead, they re-describe it as a psychological disorder, a phobia, or a terrible vice—racism. The more generous ascribe Trump voters’ self-evident irresponsibility to their economic duress. Trump supporters aren’t really rejecting the status-quo consensus; they’re just in the awkward position of being shortchanged by the otherwise good processes of globalization and greater cultural diversity.
On the contrary, Trump supporters see that Trump favors the particular loyalties of citizens to their nation over vague sentiments of universal philanthropy that justify a system conveniently benefiting those who trumpet its political correctness. He questions the presumption that American power must guard a global system that seems less and less ordered to American interests—or at least to the interests of Americans not in the upper stratum of society. His aggressive violations of political correctness reassure those who tire of the diktats of “history.”
Basically what I have been saying: the election will be generally over globalism v. nationalism.
Peter1469
07-12-2016, 07:02 PM
Hillary’s awful week: She won’t be indicted, but the damage is done (http://www.salon.com/2016/07/08/hillarys_awful_week_she_wont_be_indicted_but_the_d amage_is_done/)
Salon (http://www.salon.com/2016/07/08/hillarys_awful_week_she_wont_be_indicted_but_the_d amage_is_done/) agrees with me regarding the damage that the FBI did to Hillary. Although they are hard left, apparently they get it right now and then.
Though it could have been a whole lot worse, presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton still a pretty terrible week. After months of being investigated by the FBI, the agency’s Director James Comey announced on Tuesday that the bureau would not be recommending charges against Clinton for her use of a private email server as Secretary of State — but that was all the good news afforded to the Clinton camp. In the same news conference, Comey proceeded to dismantle various falsehoods that Clinton has told the public throughout her presidential campaign (proving that coverups always make matters worse).
Comey revealed that the FBI found 113 emails that had contained classified information at the time they were sent on Clinton’s server, which directly refutes (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/06/hillary-clinton/fbi-findings-tear-holes-hillary-clintons-email-def/) her repeated claim over the past year that she never sent or received classified material through email while in the State department (“I never received nor sent any material that was marked classified,” Clinton categorically stated last year). Comey also divulged that Clinton’s lawyers had deleted emails marked “personal” that had contained relevant State department material, as well as the fact that Secretary Clinton used multiple private email servers. Ultimately, the FBI director called Clinton “extremely careless (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/05/hillary-clintons-email-problems-might-be-even-worse-than-we-thought/)” in her handling of classified material and remarked that, while the agency found no evidence of her server[s] being hacked, it was certainly a possibility.
For a candidate who is distrusted by the majority of the American citizens, Comey’s conference was disastrous. According to a Quinnipiac University survey (https://www.qu.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2363) released on June 29, “voters say 45 – 37 percent that Trump is more honest and trustworthy” than Clinton (which is admittedly shocking, considering every other claim that comes out of Trump’s mouth is a conspiracy theory or a blatant lie — but this shows how deep-seated this mistrust for Clinton is). And this was before the FBI director exposed Clinton’s fabrications. One can only imagine how deep Clinton’s trust ratings will sink now.
Tahuyaman
07-12-2016, 07:41 PM
FBI sinks Hillary (http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/07/05/fbi-comey-clinton-email-trump-bernie-politics-campaign-column/86712780/)
People have been debating what the FBI did yesterday. To refer an indictment or not to do so. Put that aside: the Director's statement destroys her credibility. It clearly shows she has lied to Congress and to the American people every step of the way. A recommendation for indictment would have been seen as another part of the "vast right wing conspiracy." And Obama would have pardoned her anyway.
The text of the statement is here (https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b.-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system).
I'm on your side, but the director's statement only verifies what everyone already knew about Mrs.Clinton.
Minds have been made up one way or the other on her fitness long ago. This changes nothing. The hard core partisans on the left will support her no matter what.
This is a sad commentary on our current state of affairs, but it's true.
Peter1469
07-12-2016, 08:30 PM
I'm on your side, but the director's statement only verifies what everyone already knew about Mrs.Clinton.
Minds have been made up one way or the other on her fitness long ago. This changes nothing. The hard core partisans on the left will support her no matter what.
This is a sad commentary on our current state of affairs, but it's true.
Fans don't care if she sacrifices babies to Baal (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Baal-ancient-deity). Independents will decide the election.
Tahuyaman
07-12-2016, 08:35 PM
Fans don't care if she sacrifices babies to Baal (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Baal-ancient-deity). Independents will decide the election.
And where are they going to go? Trump? I doubt it.
Peter1469
07-12-2016, 09:01 PM
And where are they going to go? Trump? I doubt it.
I am in that boat. 101% chance that I won't vote for Crooked Hillary.
I may stay home. I may vote 3rd party.
Who knows.
Tahuyaman
07-12-2016, 10:36 PM
I'm planning on voting for Gary Johnson.
maineman
07-12-2016, 10:39 PM
and it will be so selfishly satisfying to cast an irrelevant vote that will have zero impact on the identity of our next leader. Good for you. that's just great. Obviously, civics class in eighth grade taught you a great deal. congratulations.
Hal Jordan
07-12-2016, 10:59 PM
and it will be so selfishly satisfying to cast an irrelevant vote that will have zero impact on the identity of our next leader. Good for you. that's just great. Obviously, civics class in eighth grade taught you a great deal. congratulations.
Irrelevant votes. Nice hacktivism there. The only wasted vote is one that comes from being told who to vote for because of party rather than principles. Obviously you don't care for history, as George Washington warned of what was likely to happen due to a party system and has since been proven right.
Dr. Who
07-13-2016, 01:12 AM
and it will be so selfishly satisfying to cast an irrelevant vote that will have zero impact on the identity of our next leader. Good for you. that's just great. Obviously, civics class in eighth grade taught you a great deal. congratulations.
Democracy is not about choosing the leader that you think will win, but choosing the leader that represents your views. Simply voting for the lesser of two evils is not democracy. If your choices of the leading candidates were Pol Pot and Hitler, how could you in good conscience choose either one? If a person does not find a sense of security in voting for either Hillary or Donald, then they should vote for the candidate that does let them sleep at night. Whether or not that candidate has a reasonable chance of winning based on the polls should be irrelevant. The polls should not guide your voting choice. Choosing the person that most represents your politics is. If no one represents you, then not voting is an option. Votes for third party candidates also inform government that there is a segment of the population that have views that are not represented, and if those votes reach significant proportions, perhaps the existing duopoly will be forced to open up to other parties.
Peter1469
07-13-2016, 04:44 AM
and it will be so selfishly satisfying to cast an irrelevant vote that will have zero impact on the identity of our next leader. Good for you. that's just great. Obviously, civics class in eighth grade taught you a great deal. congratulations.
Thinking like this has given us pure shit for nominees for the last several election cycles.
Ransom
07-13-2016, 09:26 AM
Democracy is not about choosing the leader that you think will win, but choosing the leader that represents your views. Simply voting for the lesser of two evils is not democracy. If your choices of the leading candidates were Pol Pot and Hitler, how could you in good conscience choose either one? If a person does not find a sense of security in voting for either Hillary or Donald, then they should vote for the candidate that does let them sleep at night. Whether or not that candidate has a reasonable chance of winning based on the polls should be irrelevant. The polls should not guide your voting choice. Choosing the person that most represents your politics is. If no one represents you, then not voting is an option. Votes for third party candidates also inform government that there is a segment of the population that have views that are not represented, and if those votes reach significant proportions, perhaps the existing duopoly will be forced to open up to other parties.
This isn't a Democracy but a Republic. Given your analogy there, Democracy could just be three men in a prison cell and two of them decide to kill the third. We have a political process, Who. We are given via Primary the opportunity to "choose the person that most represents our politics" as you put it. We Republicans had as many as 15 choices at one time, a entire buffet of choices on policy and platform as well. We have a representative government....not a democracy. Look to our 20000 elections where many people still believe Al Gore got more votes than George Bush did......but we both know that is possible, the electoral college elects our President. Delegates who represent We the People are who actually send any President to the White House. Yes?
maineman
07-13-2016, 09:56 AM
Democracy is not about choosing the leader that you think will win, but choosing the leader that represents your views. Simply voting for the lesser of two evils is not democracy. If your choices of the leading candidates were Pol Pot and Hitler, how could you in good conscience choose either one? If a person does not find a sense of security in voting for either Hillary or Donald, then they should vote for the candidate that does let them sleep at night. Whether or not that candidate has a reasonable chance of winning based on the polls should be irrelevant. The polls should not guide your voting choice. Choosing the person that most represents your politics is. If no one represents you, then not voting is an option. Votes for third party candidates also inform government that there is a segment of the population that have views that are not represented, and if those votes reach significant proportions, perhaps the existing duopoly will be forced to open up to other parties.
If my choice were Pol Pot or Hitler, I'd go live permanently somewhere else. Voting for a third party candidate that makes you sleep better does not change the hard cold fact that you will have to learn to fall asleep with one of the other two in just a few months.
Dr. Who
07-13-2016, 10:44 AM
This isn't a Democracy but a Republic. Given your analogy there, Democracy could just be three men in a prison cell and two of them decide to kill the third. We have a political process, Who. We are given via Primary the opportunity to "choose the person that most represents our politics" as you put it. We Republicans had as many as 15 choices at one time, a entire buffet of choices on policy and platform as well. We have a representative government....not a democracy. Look to our 20000 elections where many people still believe Al Gore got more votes than George Bush did......but we both know that is possible, the electoral college elects our President. Delegates who represent We the People are who actually send any President to the White House. Yes?
The act of having elections is a democratic process, so let's not split hairs. Having a primary with only two parties represented is not much different than having the choice of 30 popsicles, but the choices are still only 15 orange and 15 lemon. The folks who like chocolate or cherry have no selections.
Dr. Who
07-13-2016, 10:45 AM
If my choice were Pol Pot or Hitler, I'd go live permanently somewhere else. Voting for a third party candidate that makes you sleep better does not change the hard cold fact that you will have to learn to fall asleep with one of the other two in just a few months.
At least you won't feel like you helped to put a person in office that doesn't represent you. You retain the right to complain.
Ransom
07-13-2016, 10:49 AM
The act of having elections is a democratic process, so let's not split hairs. Having a primary with only two parties represented is not much different than having the choice of 30 popsicles, but the choices are still only 15 orange and 15 lemon. The folks who like chocolate or cherry have no selections.
There is a primary in every state and required delegate votes o even win the primary, it's not splitting hairs. This is a representative Republic, your analogy wasn't accurate.
MisterVeritis
07-13-2016, 10:50 AM
The act of having elections is a democratic process, so let's not split hairs. Having a primary with only two parties represented is not much different than having the choice of 30 popsicles, but the choices are still only 15 orange and 15 lemon. The folks who like chocolate or cherry have no selections.
How much support did you give your candidate?
Ransom
07-13-2016, 10:52 AM
If my choice were Pol Pot or Hitler, I'd go live permanently somewhere else. Voting for a third party candidate that makes you sleep better does not change the hard cold fact that you will have to learn to fall asleep with one of the other two in just a few months.
this someone....who given his hero Jim Webb who himself couldn't even earn a single Democrat primary delegate...is throwing his lot in behind crooked Hillary to make sure his Party wins.
:biglaugh:
You're the audio visual aid in any presentation, Maine, an example to be used here to prove points.
maineman
07-13-2016, 10:59 AM
this someone....who given his hero Jim Webb who himself couldn't even earn a single Democrat primary delegate...is throwing his lot in behind crooked Hillary to make sure his Party wins.
:biglaugh:
You're the audio visual aid in any presentation, Maine, an example to be used here to prove points.
If you want to use me as an example of someone who understands the inevitability of the two party system, and someone who religiously reads each party's platform after each quadrennial convention and then decides which party best matches his personal philosophy and votes for that party's candidate, I'm fine with that. I will NEVER throw my vote away on a third party candidate.... although, I will admit that I was so pissed at Carter in 1980 that I voted for Anderson. It was an error of youthful indiscretion.
maineman
07-13-2016, 11:01 AM
At least you won't feel like you helped to put a person in office that doesn't represent you. You retain the right to complain.
I think I would feel better about myself if I made the hard decision as to which one would make it MORE difficult to sleep at night - even if only marginally so - and then voted for his opponent.
Dr. Who
07-13-2016, 11:58 AM
How much support did you give your candidate?
I am a Bernie fan. Alas, it was not meant to be. I can't stand Hillary.
MisterVeritis
07-13-2016, 12:01 PM
I am a Bernie fan. Alas, it was not meant to be. I can't stand Hillary.
Did you fund him?
Hal Jordan
07-13-2016, 12:48 PM
If you want to use me as an example of someone who understands the inevitability of the two party system, and someone who religiously reads each party's platform after each quadrennial convention and then decides which party best matches his personal philosophy and votes for that party's candidate, I'm fine with that. I will NEVER throw my vote away on a third party candidate.... although, I will admit that I was so pissed at Carter in 1980 that I voted for Anderson. It was an error of youthful indiscretion.
Funny, my youthful indiscretion was voting for one of the big two because I thought that it was useless to do otherwise. Thankfully, I learned as I grew older.
maineman
07-13-2016, 01:33 PM
Funny, my youthful indiscretion was voting for one of the big two because I thought that it was useless to do otherwise. Thankfully, I learned as I grew older.
and your vote has been instrumental in choosing our nation's president ever since. [/sarcasm off]
Hal Jordan
07-13-2016, 03:23 PM
and your vote has been instrumental in choosing our nation's president ever since. [/sarcasm off]
Listen, you can continue to be a agent of the entropy that is the status quo. Personally, I'd rather be an agent of change. Here's a lesson for you, which has been made very clear by this election so far. Change is coming. There are schisms in both parties right now.
Common
07-13-2016, 03:26 PM
Polling of independent voters say the email scandal and The lynch clinton plane meeting are turning them off
Common
07-13-2016, 03:27 PM
Listen, you can continue to be a agent of the entropy that is the status quo. Personally, I'd rather be an agent of change. Here's a lesson for you, which has been made very clear by this election so far. Change is coming. There are schisms in both parties right now.
Hal you are talking to the wall, that man is the true epitomy of a braindead mindless political hack. Exchanging with him is pointless
Hal Jordan
07-13-2016, 03:29 PM
Hal you are talking to the wall, that man is the true epitomy of a braindead mindless political hack. Exchanging with him is pointless
My exchange is more for the benefit of others reading than him.
Peter1469
07-13-2016, 04:06 PM
Trump is breaking up the GOP just fine. We will see what happens with the Dems. Hillary's numbers will go down.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.8 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.