View Full Version : Does this sound familiar?
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 08:17 AM
Apparently the fascist on this forum are too chicken shit to discuss this
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 08:33 AM
Fdr.
Funny you should say that.
"Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 08:37 AM
"Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the $#@! is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
How does this answer my question regarding who made the statement in my post?
Why are you trying to bring race into this?
you seem nostalgic for the good old days, nat
Common
07-11-2016, 08:44 AM
"Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
Man go fuck yourself, There is not a single white person I know of that believes that now
Assholes like you is what continues to make the entire thing worse. Idiots like you just stoke the fire, offer no solutions just rhetoric to make it worse
Common has been TB'd for personal insult(s)
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 09:16 AM
you seem nostalgic for the good old days, natWhat the hell are you talking about. Why won't you answer the question of who was responsible for my post? Afraid or just too stupid to recognize it?
Safety
07-11-2016, 09:19 AM
"Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."
That speech seems to be the cornerstone for every ailment this country faces today.
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 09:19 AM
Man go $#@! yourself, There is not a single white person I know of that believes that now
$#@!s like you is what continues to make the entire thing worse. Idiots like you just stoke the fire, offer no solutions just rhetoric to make it worse
I don't understand why he is bringing race into the discussion here, although the authors of my post were eventually responsible for the deaths and enslavement of millions. I think he recognizes it for what it is and wants to deflect so he doesn't have to admit it
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 09:21 AM
`
That speech seems to be the cornerstone for every ailment this country faces today.
Talk about deflecting. You know what this is about but are just too afraid to actually engage the discussion.
The topic is who is responsible for the words of my initial post, not some racist bullshit you have conjured up.
Standing Wolf
07-11-2016, 10:26 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't see a quote in Nathan's OP?
Chris
07-11-2016, 10:41 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't see a quote in Nathan's OP?
I think it's a paraphrase, not sure.
Chris
07-11-2016, 10:41 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't see a quote in Nathan's OP?
I think it's a paraphrase, not sure.
Oops, he deleted it. Some don't want to discuss he says.
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 11:05 AM
I think it's a paraphrase, not sure.
Oops, he deleted it. Some don't want to discuss he says.
No one wanted to discuss this, they wanted to turn it into a racist screed.
This was the platform of the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany in 1920. This was published in "Der Nationalsazialismus Dokumente 1933-1945 page 29-31 and was part of Ayn Rand's book "Capitalism, the Unknown Ideal" If anyone wants to discuss this I will repost but I am afraid the left wingers will simply deflect it once again because it shows what will ultimately happen to their economic policies and they can't have that.
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 11:08 AM
We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living
The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interest of the community but take place within its confines and be for the good of all. Therefore we demand ...an end to the power of the financial interest
We demand profit sharing in big business
We demand a broad extension of care for the aged
We demand the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of the national, state, and municipal governments.
In order to make possible to every capable and industrious citizen the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education we demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents.
The government must undertake the improvement of public health......
We combat the materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundations of the Common Good.
Who said this? How many on this forum would agree with all or most of these provisos?
Chris
07-11-2016, 11:16 AM
We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living
The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interest of the community but take place within its confines and be for the good of all. Therefore we demand ...an end to the power of the financial interest
We demand profit sharing in big business
We demand a broad extension of care for the aged
We demand the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of the national, state, and municipal governments.
In order to make possible to every capable and industrious citizen the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education we demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents.
The government must undertake the improvement of public health......
We combat the materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundations of the Common Good.
Who said this? How many on this forum would agree with all or most of these provisos?
No need to look it up to know it's from Germany. As a nation it had been socializing since Otto von Bismarck who wrote in the late 1800s ". . . those who are disabled from work by age and invalidity have a well-grounded claim to care from the state."
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 11:22 AM
No need to look it up to know it's from Germany. As a nation it had been socializing since Otto von Bismarck who wrote in the late 1800s ". . . those who are disabled from work by age and invalidity have a well-grounded claim to care from the state."
The point is Chris that this is the platform of the Nazi Party, the party most liberals on this forum (and elsewhere) claim is made up of conservative right wingers. This is the current Democratic Party platform almost verbatim.
Standing Wolf
07-11-2016, 11:27 AM
Nathan, assuming that the quote actually is from where it is alleged to be from - and many such attributions do turn out to be fraudulent - does, as an example, an increased role for government in taking care of the aged automatically become a bad thing because it was advocated for in 1920 by a group that became the people we refer to as "Nazis"? Are all efforts to better the public health to be rejected and dismissed because that group advocated for those efforts?
Chris
07-11-2016, 11:46 AM
The point is Chris that this is the platform of the Nazi Party, the party most liberals on this forum (and elsewhere) claim is made up of conservative right wingers. This is the current Democratic Party platform almost verbatim.
Right. I'm just saying it's progressive, a long time building up. Hayek in The Road to Serfdom chronicles the socialist and other thinkers who promoted it. They were collectivists against any form of individualistic liberalism. Ironically, even as they saw their fatherland losing the war they predicted their ideology would prevail. That's why the first comment in thread, FDR, is telling.
Chris
07-11-2016, 11:46 AM
Nathan, assuming that the quote actually is from where it is alleged to be from - and many such attributions do turn out to be fraudulent - does, as an example, an increased role for government in taking care of the aged automatically become a bad thing because it was advocated for in 1920 by a group that became the people we refer to as "Nazis"? Are all efforts to better the public health to be rejected and dismissed because that group advocated for those efforts?
Well, it is well-intentioned.
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 11:50 AM
Right. I'm just saying it's progressive, a long time building up. Hayek in The Road to Serfdom chronicles the socialist and other thinkers who promoted it. They were collectivists against any form of individualistic liberalism. Ironically, even as they saw their fatherland losing the war they predicted their ideology would prevail. That's why the first comment in thread, FDR, is telling.
Roosevelt was a very big admirer of Mussolini' fascism. He, as does Obama, thought that he could have accomplished a lot more if he didn't have that pesky Constitution in the way.
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 11:54 AM
Nathan, assuming that the quote actually is from where it is alleged to be from - and many such attributions do turn out to be fraudulent - does, as an example, an increased role for government in taking care of the aged automatically become a bad thing because it was advocated for in 1920 by a group that became the people we refer to as "Nazis"? Are all efforts to better the public health to be rejected and dismissed because that group advocated for those efforts?
All collectivist governments will eventually enslave the people, find scapegoats or wage war on their neighbors for survival. Cuba, Venezuala, Brazil, North Korea, Zimbabwe are but a few examples of socialist failures.
What do you think the Nazi party (not Hitler) advocated as a political philosophy?
The Sage of Main Street
07-11-2016, 12:12 PM
We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living
The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interest of the community but take place within its confines and be for the good of all. Therefore we demand ...an end to the power of the financial interest
We demand profit sharing in big business
We demand a broad extension of care for the aged
We demand the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of the national, state, and municipal governments.
In order to make possible to every capable and industrious citizen the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education we demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents.
The government must undertake the improvement of public health......
We combat the materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundations of the Common Good.
Who said this? How many on this forum would agree with all or most of these provisos? That's a political come-on. All power-hungry freaks preach soothing ideas. Anyone who takes this quotation and runs with it has been preached to himself so he'd numbly take words at their face value.
Dr. Who
07-11-2016, 12:19 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't see a quote in Nathan's OP?
Whew! I thought it was just me that couldn't see it.
The Sage of Main Street
07-11-2016, 12:19 PM
All collectivist governments will eventually enslave the people, find scapegoats or wage war on their neighbors for survival. Cuba, Venezuela, Brazil, North Korea, Zimbabwe are but a few examples of socialist failures.
What do you think the Nazi party (not Hitler) advocated as a political philosophy? "Collectivism," as in when the employees create the wealth and a plutocratic parasite collects it for himself?
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 12:19 PM
That's a political come-on. All power-hungry freaks preach soothing ideas. Anyone who takes this quotation and runs with it has been preached to so he'd take words at their face value.
Well, they have been preaching this for over 100 years now and every day we see more and more who accept it as gospel. There is a very large group who believes and desires that Hillary Clinton win the election on just such a platform.
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 12:21 PM
Whew! I thought it was just me that couldn't see it.
If everyone read down to the last sentence you should have seen I was asking if anyone knew the author of that post.
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 12:22 PM
Well, it is well-intentioned.
You know what they say about the path to hell don't you?
Chris
07-11-2016, 12:25 PM
Whew! I thought it was just me that couldn't see it.
Well, it was removed because some tried to veer topic off into something else.
nathanbforrest45, if you like we can restore your OP with the quote.
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 12:26 PM
Well, it was removed because some tried to veer topic off into something else.
@nathanbforrest45 (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=891), if you like we can restore your OP with the quote.
What quote are we talking about? I did restore it on page 2 I think.
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 12:28 PM
Nathan, assuming that the quote actually is from where it is alleged to be from - and many such attributions do turn out to be fraudulent - does, as an example, an increased role for government in taking care of the aged automatically become a bad thing because it was advocated for in 1920 by a group that became the people we refer to as "Nazis"? Are all efforts to better the public health to be rejected and dismissed because that group advocated for those efforts?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party#Political_program
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/25points.htm
Dr. Who
07-11-2016, 12:50 PM
We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living
The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interest of the community but take place within its confines and be for the good of all. Therefore we demand ...an end to the power of the financial interest
We demand profit sharing in big business
We demand a broad extension of care for the aged
We demand the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of the national, state, and municipal governments.
In order to make possible to every capable and industrious citizen the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education we demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents.
The government must undertake the improvement of public health......
We combat the materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundations of the Common Good.
Who said this? How many on this forum would agree with all or most of these provisos? The quote is from Die Nationalsozialistische Dokumente. I don't know who wrote it, or if it was even ever used in a speech by Hitler, in whole or in part, although it has been oft repeated by the anti-socialism crowd. Noble ideas in the hands of the ignoble make for a very poor test of an ideology. One does not judge the ethics of the practice of medicine by the actions of Dr. Mengele nor do we judge all Monarchies by the actions of Vlad the Impaler or Ivan the Terrible.
Standing Wolf
07-11-2016, 12:54 PM
All collectivist governments will eventually enslave the people, find scapegoats or wage war on their neighbors for survival. Cuba, Venezuala, Brazil, North Korea, Zimbabwe are but a few examples of socialist failures.
What do you think the Nazi party (not Hitler) advocated as a political philosophy?
You didn't really attempt to answer my question, though.
Chris
07-11-2016, 01:06 PM
The quote is from Die Nationalsozialistische Dokumente. I don't know who wrote it, or if it was even ever used in a speech by Hitler, in whole or in part, although it has been oft repeated by the anti-socialism crowd. Noble ideas in the hands of the ignoble make for a very poor test of an ideology. One does not judge the ethics of the practice of medicine by the actions of Dr. Mengele nor do we judge all Monarchies by the actions of Vlad the Impaler or Ivan the Terrible.
And yet that is the ideology that has prevailed in the West with all the best of intentions. These were the ideas of thinkers from Plato to hegel to Marx, as criticized by Karl Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies, the ideas chronicled by Hayek in The Road to Serfdom where he records these thinkers predicting that despite the failure of the Third Reich that these collectivist ideas would prevail over individualistic liberalism. Collectivist liberalism is winning out, don't you think? But how is that working out?
Dr. Who
07-11-2016, 01:43 PM
And yet that is the ideology that has prevailed in the West with all the best of intentions. These were the ideas of thinkers from Plato to hegel to Marx, as criticized by Karl Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies, the ideas chronicled by Hayek in The Road to Serfdom where he records these thinkers predicting that despite the failure of the Third Reich that these collectivist ideas would prevail over individualistic liberalism. Collectivist liberalism is winning out, don't you think? But how is that working out?
I'm not sure that collectivist liberalism is the problem. We also have runaway capitalism, political corruption and a highly materialistic society which cannot be blamed on collectivism but actually its opposite - individualism.
nathanbforrest45
07-11-2016, 01:46 PM
I'm not sure that collectivist liberalism is the problem. We also have runaway capitalism, political corruption and a highly materialistic society which cannot be blamed on collectivism but actually its opposite - individualism.
Run away capitalism? You mean some people are too successful and need to be reined in?
Chris
07-11-2016, 01:48 PM
I'm not sure that collectivist liberalism is the problem. We also have runaway capitalism, political corruption and a highly materialistic society which cannot be blamed on collectivism but actually its opposite - individualism.
Capitalism? You mean state capitalism, even you couple it with political corruption. Marx was materialistic. That's collectivist liberalism, the collective represented by an elite oligarchy of central planners. That's what Plato, hegel and Marx envisioned.
Individualistic liberalism is all but dying out from its classical liberal heyday.
Dr. Who
07-11-2016, 02:41 PM
Capitalism? You mean state capitalism, even you couple it with political corruption. Marx was materialistic. That's collectivist liberalism, the collective represented by an elite oligarchy of central planners. That's what Plato, hegel and Marx envisioned.
Individualistic liberalism is all but dying out from its classical liberal heyday.
Political corruption is not a symbol of state capitalism, it is simply a function of dishonest people who place their individual success above their duty as an elected representative. This article describes well, what I deem to be runaway capitalism:
https://hbr.org/2012/01/runaway-capitalism
Chris
07-11-2016, 03:23 PM
Political corruption is not a symbol of state capitalism, it is simply a function of dishonest people who place their individual success above their duty as an elected representative. This article describes well, what I deem to be runaway capitalism:
https://hbr.org/2012/01/runaway-capitalism
So what you're saying is political corruption is not political. Hate to be so literal but that makes no sense. I agree there are dishonest people who rather than employing economic means of getting what they want by producing what others value, instead employ political means to get what they want by having the government take it from people. But you have got to have a government and a political system for such rent seeking to take place. And I think it inarguable that a small government simply doesn't offer such rents the way a big government does. I mean the government has to have a certain amount of power to coerce the people into paying for what it's cronies in corruption seek.
Your article reads like a 19th century analysis of the market as Darwinian survival of the fittest--when Darwin never described evolution as survival of the fittest.
Dr. Who
07-11-2016, 04:14 PM
So what you're saying is political corruption is not political. Hate to be so literal but that makes no sense. I agree there are dishonest people who rather than employing economic means of getting what they want by producing what others value, instead employ political means to get what they want by having the government take it from people. But you have got to have a government and a political system for such rent seeking to take place. And I think it inarguable that a small government simply doesn't offer such rents the way a big government does. I mean the government has to have a certain amount of power to coerce the people into paying for what it's cronies in corruption seek.
Your article reads like a 19th century analysis of the market as Darwinian survival of the fittest--when Darwin never described evolution as survival of the fittest.
Government never stays small, it always gets incrementally bigger as people demand that the government deal with the predations of other people, unscrupulous businesses, better access to goods and services, transportation etc. What you describe as limited government doesn't exist in the world. Conversely, if you look up regimes with limited government, the US is at the top of the list.
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