Another black murderer identified

[Oboe]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/17/gavin-eugene-long-identified-baton-rouge-gunman/

The Baton Rouge gunman has been identified as Gavin Eugene Long, according to multiple news outlets Sunday afternoon.

Citing unnamed “sources,” CBS News reported (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/baton-rouge-police-shooting-suspects-information/) that Mr. Long was a black man from Kansas City, Missouri, who committed the ambush on his 29th birthday. The network also identified him as an ex-Marine.
NBC News reported the same name (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baton-rouge-police-ambush/three-baton-rouge-officers-killed-three-injured-ambush-n611101) some moments later, citing “several law enforcement officials.”
The Wall Street Journal reported, citing “a person briefed on the investigation,” that the suspect had ties (http://www.washingtontimes.com/admin/stories/story/1490844/on.wsj.com/2a3NlHT) to “an antigovernment group called the New Freedom Group.” MSNBC also reported relationships with a different anti-government group, the Sovereign Citizens.
Three officers were killed and three were more injured Sunday in what police are describing as an ambush attack. The gunman was slain by police, though authorities are searching for possible accomplices.


---------------------------------

Oh, I almost forgot! Has obastard gave a statement yet?





These pieces of shit say they are tired of police harassment (their words), well, they ain't seen nothing yet.

[Ethereal]

I don't think his skin color is all that important. And I don't think ramping up the police's already militarized tactics is going to solve the problem. If anything, it will only make it worse.

[Bo-4]

I don't think his skin color is all that important. And I don't think ramping up the police's already militarized tactics is going to solve the problem. If anything, it will only make it worse.

Take a cue from me .. a reasonably smart guy who believes YOU to be a VERY smart guy.

Ditch that cloying clueless clown.

You'll thank me.

[Ethereal]

For example, the US military tried to defeat the insurgency with overwhelming force. I heard some stories...

But this only fueled the insurgency by creating resentment among the populace.

So the strategy was shifted to "hearts and minds".

Granted, a lot of that amounted to bribing Sunni tribal leaders, but there was also genuine efforts to engage with the populace and to reform our overly aggressive ROEs.

And it worked pretty well for a while. It certainly worked better than the iron fist approach we tried early on.

The same logic applies in America. Increasing the aggression will only cause resentment of police to intensify.

[Ethereal]

Take a cue from me .. a reasonably smart guy who believes YOU to be a VERY smart guy.

Ditch that cloying clueless clown.

You'll thank me.

But there are other posters who might be edified by my contributions... :wink:

[Tahuyaman]

I don't think his skin color is all that important. And I don't think ramping up the police's already militarized tactics is going to solve the problem. If anything, it will only make it worse.


So, what should the response be and what preventive measures should we take?

How should the police be equipped when they know they are out gunned?

Don't take those questions as an attack upon your view. Just tell me what you think the answers should be.

[Oboe]

For example, the US military tried to defeat the insurgency with overwhelming force. I heard some stories...

But this only fueled the insurgency by creating resentment among the populace.

So the strategy was shifted to "hearts and minds".

Granted, a lot of that amounted to bribing Sunni tribal leaders, but there was also genuine efforts to engage with the populace and to reform our overly aggressive ROEs.

And it worked pretty well for a while. It certainly worked better than the iron fist approach we tried early on.

The same logic applies in America. Increasing the aggression will only cause resentment of police to intensify.


When the government ties the military's hands by placing restrictions on when and how they can engage, we lose. Whenever we go in, we should go in and crush them.

Hearts and minds? You mean one to the head and two to the chest?

That'll work.

[exotix]

Thank Christ ... it it'd been a honkey it'd've been a righteous shoot.

[Ethereal]

So, what should the response be and what preventive measures should we take?

How should the police be equipped when they know they are out gunned?

Don't take those questions as an attack upon your view. Just tell me what you think the answers should be.

I've always said that repealing the federal war on drugs would probably eliminate 80% of the gun crime in America and would radically deescalate the tension between police and urban communities. It had a similar effect on violent crime when alcohol prohibition was repealed.

[Tahuyaman]

For example, the US military tried to defeat the insurgency with overwhelming force. I heard some stories...

But this only fueled the insurgency by creating resentment among the populace.
.

Maybe that force wasn't as overwhelming as you were told in those stories?

[Ethereal]

When the government ties the military's hands by placing restrictions on when and how they can engage, we lose. Whenever we go in, we should go in and crush them.

Hearts and minds? You mean one to the head and two to the chest?

That'll work.

They didn't tie our hands at all. I know Marines who shot almost anyone they wanted for almost any reason they wanted. That caused massive resentment among the Iraqis which fueled the insurgency. That's why Petraeus changed strategies and restricted our ROEs starting around 2007. And it worked pretty well. Violence decreased and cooperation increased.

[Ethereal]

Maybe that force wasn't as overwhelming as you were told in those stories?

Shooting pretty much anyone you want whenever you want seems overwhelming to me.

[Oboe]

They didn't tie our hands at all. I know Marines who shot almost anyone they wanted for almost any reason they wanted. That caused massive resentment among the Iraqis which fueled the insurgency. That's why Petraeus changed strategies and restricted our ROEs starting around 2007. And it worked pretty well. Violence decreased and cooperation increased.


They didn't do it enough.

[Tahuyaman]

I've always said that repealing the federal war on drugs would probably eliminate 80% of the gun crime in America and would radically deescalate the tension between police and urban communities. It had a similar effect on violent crime when alcohol prohibition was repealed.

You think this so called War on Drugs is related to these latest incidents of violence?

So, you are of the mind that if we legalize drugs, violent crime will decline to insignificant levels?

[Tahuyaman]

Shooting pretty much anyone you want whenever you want seems overwhelming to me.


You might have been told some kind of modern fairy tale.

[Tahuyaman]

I've always said that repealing the federal war on drugs would probably eliminate 80% of the gun crime in America and would radically deescalate the tension between police and urban communities. It had a similar effect on violent crime when alcohol prohibition was repealed.


Don't you think the US government's intentional creation of a dependent class is a factor?

[Ethereal]

You think this so called War on Drugs is related to these latest incidents of violence?

So, you are of the mind that if we legalize drugs, violent crime will decline to insignificant levels?

Interactions between police and urban communities cannot be divorced from the broader political context in which they occur. And that would necessarily include the war on drugs.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp-content/uploads/sites/22/2015/12/AEIChart.jpg

[Ethereal]

You might have been told some kind of modern fairy tale.

Unless you think all my senior Marines were lying constantly about what happened during their deployments to Iraq, then I have no idea what you're basing that on.

[Ethereal]

Don't you think the US government's intentional creation of a dependent class is a factor?

Absolutely.

[Tahuyaman]

So, what should the response be and what preventive measures should we take?

How should the police be equipped when they know they are out gunned?

Don't take those questions as an attack upon your view. Just tell me what you think the answers should be.


I've always said that repealing the federal war on drugs would probably eliminate 80% of the gun crime in America and would radically deescalate the tension between police and urban communities. It had a similar effect on violent crime when alcohol prohibition was repealed.


Ill try one more time to elicit an answer. Remember, under current law, many drugs are illegal to posess. Seeing as that is not going to change in the foreseeable future, what should the answers be right now?

[Ethereal]

Ill try one more time to elicit an answer. Remember, under current law, many drugs are illegal to posess. Seeing as that is not going to change in the foreseeable future, what should the answers be right now?

So because you don't like my answer, you ask me the same question again?

[Tahuyaman]

Unless you think all my senior Marines were lying constantly about what happened during their deployments to Iraq, then I have no idea what you're basing that on.


The Marines are a very small force. They did not nor do not represent the entire military effort. They represent a very small sliver of the operations.

[Ethereal]

The Marines are a very small force. They did not nor do not represent the entire military effort. They represent a very small sliver of the operations.

I am referring to combat operations, not logistics and admin personnel sitting in a FOB somewhere pulling their puds.

[Tahuyaman]

So, what should the response be and what preventive measures should we take?

How should the police be equipped when they know they are out gunned?

Don't take those questions as an attack upon your view. Just tell me what you think the answers should be.


So because you don't like my answer, you ask me the same question again?


You didn't answer the questions I asked. I just thought I'd give it a second try. Guess you just want to avoid answering.

[Ethereal]

You didn't answer the questions I asked. I just thought I'd give it a second try. Guess you just want to avoid answering.

Repealing the war on drugs was my answer.

[Tahuyaman]

I am referring to combat operations, not logistics and admin personnel sitting in a FOB somewhere pulling their puds.

And the Marines represented a very small element of combat forces.

I don't beleve we ever used overwhelming force since the first Gulf War. Certainly not any time in recent memory.

[Bo-4]

But there are other posters who might be edified by my contributions... :wink:

THAT one?

MEPS

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/62925659.jpg

[Tahuyaman]

Repealing the war on drugs was my answer.

Thats unrealistic because you know that is not going to happen any time soon. your answer is your way to dodge the questions.

[Ethereal]

And the Marines represented a very small element of combat forces.

You have some data to back that up?


I don't beleve we ever used overwhelming force since the first Gulf War. Certainly not any time in recent memory.

Were you in Iraq post-2003?

[Ethereal]

Thats unrealistic because you know that is not going to happen any time soon. your answer is your way to dodge the questions.

Like I said, you don't like my answer. That's fine. But I still answered your question, so stop acting like I didn't.

[Bo-4]

Interactions between police and urban communities cannot be divorced from the broader political context in which they occur. And that would necessarily include the war on drugs.



You're talking to a few who've never relished in the joy of a magnificent bowl or spliff.

They still buy into the 1960's movie "Reefer Madness" which threatened a moment of bliss and a lifetime of regret.

Or more recently, the "gateway drug" stupidity.

Big government Republicans will never fucking learn.

[Ethereal]

You're talking to a few who've never relished in the joy of a magnificent bowl or spliff.

They still buy into the 1960's movie "Reefer Madness" which threatened a moment of bliss and a lifetime of regret.

Or more recently, the "gateway drug" stupidity.

Big government Republicans will never $#@!ing learn.

They sure do love them some scotch, though...

[Bo-4]

Unless you think all my senior Marines were lying constantly about what happened during their deployments to Iraq, then I have no idea what you're basing that on.

Thanks for your service!

[Bo-4]

Thank Christ ... it it'd been a honkey it'd've been a righteous shoot.

We need to collectively avoid responding to Dickwad henceforth.

[Ethereal]

Thanks for your service!

There is really nothing to thank me for, but I appreciate the sentiment.

[Oboe]

You're talking to a few who've never relished in the joy of a magnificent bowl or spliff.

They still buy into the 1960's movie "Reefer Madness" which threatened a moment of bliss and a lifetime of regret.

Or more recently, the "gateway drug" stupidity.

Big government Republicans will never fucking learn.

Do you ever know wtf you're blathering about? Reefer madness was made in the 30's.

[Ethereal]

Do you ever know wtf you're blathering about? Reefer madness was made in the 30's.

Even so, some people still have a reefer madness mentality when it comes to the propriety of the war on drugs. It's probably the most egregious big government assault on the liberties of Americans in the last century.

[Oboe]

Weed is basically harmless. Politicians and liberals on the other hand....

[Tahuyaman]

I'm amazed by how many people come here to discuss issues, but resist a discussion or translate simple questions to be a personal attack or something. It's very odd.

[Tahuyaman]

You have some data to back that up?



Were you in Iraq post-2003?

You need a link to prove that the US Marines are a very small force?

I was part of the of the one time we did employ overwhelming force.

[Ethereal]

I'm amazed by how many people come here to discuss issues, but resist a discussion or translate simple questions to be a personal attack or something. It's very odd.

I have no idea WTF you are talking about, as usual.

I answered your question. You just didn't like the answer.

[Ethereal]

You need a link to prove that the US Marines are a very small force?

I need a link proving they were a "very small element of the combat forces" in Iraq.


I was part of the of the one time we did employ overwhelming force.

In other words, you weren't there.

[zelmo1234]

I don't think his skin color is all that important. And I don't think ramping up the police's already militarized tactics is going to solve the problem. If anything, it will only make it worse.

You have to illuminate the people that think it is a good political tactic to murder Cops. We need to have the Media Stop Lying about the Police shootings and We need to be very tough on officers that do break the law

[Oboe]

Every media story today, that I have seen on the Baton Rouge murders, also included the black guy killed by police in Baton Rouge and Minnesota. Media are scum!

[Crepitus]

I am referring to combat operations, not logistics and admin personnel sitting in a FOB somewhere pulling their puds.
Fobbits are people too.

[Crepitus]

Weed is basically harmless. Politicians and liberals on the other hand....
Weed is basically harmless. Politicians and conservatives on the other hand....

[Tahuyaman]

I have no idea WTF you are talking about, as usual.

I answered your question. You just didn't like the answer.

you failed to answer. You're not stupid. You know full well drugs will not be legalized in the near future. What is the workable solution right now under current conditions? Don't argue a solution which you know is not going to happen. Be realistic.

[Tahuyaman]

I need a link proving they were a "very small element of the combat forces" in Iraq.



In other words, you weren't there.

I wasn't in WWII either, but I know the history of it.

sheesh.....

The lengths people go to avoid exposing their view is mystifying.

[Oboe]

Weed is basically harmless. Politicians and conservatives on the other hand....In principle I can agree that politicians on both sides are fucked.

[Mac-7]

I don't think his skin color is all that important.

It would be vitally important to the lib news media if he were white and shooting up black churches.

So yes, the fact that blacks are coming out of tje woodwork like cockroaches to kill white police is worth noting.

[MisterVeritis]

For example, the US military tried to defeat the insurgency with overwhelming force. I heard some stories...

But this only fueled the insurgency by creating resentment among the populace.

So the strategy was shifted to "hearts and minds".

Granted, a lot of that amounted to bribing Sunni tribal leaders, but there was also genuine efforts to engage with the populace and to reform our overly aggressive ROEs.

And it worked pretty well for a while. It certainly worked better than the iron fist approach we tried early on.

The same logic applies in America. Increasing the aggression will only cause resentment of police to intensify.
To defeat an insurgency one must do a variety of things. We learned the right lessons in Vietnam. We forgot those lessons after our defeat.

To defeat the Black Insurgency (BI) in the US we will need some tough measures. If you are part of a hate group like BLM or if you have any dealings with race baiters link Sharpton, the washed-up, brain damaged Jesse Jackson or that evil reprobate Barrack Hussein O You should be watched around the clock.

The best answer is to elect a president who can improve job availability. That means Trump.

[Ethereal]

To defeat an insurgency one must do a variety of things. We learned the right lessons in Vietnam. We forgot those lessons after our defeat.

To defeat the Black Insurgency (BI) in the US we will need some tough measures. If you are part of a hate group like BLM or if you have any dealings with race baiters link Sharpton, the washed-up, brain damaged Jesse Jackson or that evil reprobate Barrack Hussein O You should be watched around the clock.

The best answer is to elect a president who can improve job availability. That means Trump.

I tend to side with the so-called "black insurgency", so I guess you'll have to watch me, too.

[MisterVeritis]

Shooting pretty much anyone you want whenever you want seems overwhelming to me.
No. That is senseless.

Overwhelming is when one can apply the level of force required to defeat an enemy in the shortest time possible. Now it might mean killing everybody. But usually, it doesn't.

[MisterVeritis]

I tend to side with the so-called "black insurgency", so I guess you'll have to watch me, too.
Sounds good. Some people will turn out to be enemies you thought were friends. It happens.

When you side with cop murderers we are done.

[Mac-7]

I tend to side with the so-called "black insurgency", so I guess you'll have to watch me, too.

You made the safe choice

If there is a race war obumer will side with his people.

and whites who play ball

[Ethereal]

Sounds good. Some people will turn out to be enemies you thought were friends. It happens.

When you side with cop murderers we are done.

I don't side with cop murderers or any murderers for that matter. Murder is immoral.

I side with people who protest police brutality.

[exotix]

To defeat an insurgency one must do a variety of things. We learned the right lessons in Vietnam. We forgot those lessons after our defeat.

To defeat the Black Insurgency (BI) in the US we will need some tough measures. If you are part of a hate group like BLM or if you have any dealings with race baiters link Sharpton, the washed-up, brain damaged Jesse Jackson or that evil reprobate Barrack Hussein O You should be watched around the clock.

The best answer is to elect a president who can improve job availability. That means Trump.Good luck violating Black Insurgents' 2nd Amendment Rights.

[Ethereal]

You made the safe choice

If there is a race war obumer will side with his people.

and whites who play ball

I side with anyone who opposes government oppression, whether they're black or white.

Many "small government conservatives" have a soft spot for government enforcement agents that I simply do not share.

That does not in any way imply that murdering them is acceptable. It's not.

But protesting, speaking out, and civil disobedience I find entirely acceptable and even laudable.

[Ethereal]

So when someone uses the actions of a few people to smear the entire BLM movement, how is that any different than someone using the actions of few people to smear all conservatives and libertarians?

If this individual is representative of the entire BLM movement, does that mean Timothy McVeigh is representative of the entire patriot movement?

Why do people have such a hard time judging people on an individual basis? Is it really that difficult to make distinctions between people who murder random police officers and people who peacefully protest institutionalized oppression?

[Mac-7]

I side with anyone who opposes government oppression, whether they're black or white.

.

So you want your cake and eat it too.

the black insurgency thst you support is killing police officers

[Dr. Who]

So when someone uses the actions of a few people to smear the entire BLM movement, how is that any different than someone using the actions of few people to smear all conservatives and libertarians?

If this individual is representative of the entire BLM movement, does that mean Timothy McVeigh is representative of the entire patriot movement?

Why do people have such a hard time judging people on an individual basis? Is it really that difficult to make distinctions between people who murder random police officers and people who peacefully protest institutionalized oppression?
I do think that the persistent anti-cop rhetoric is bringing the nutty extremists out of the woodwork and unfortunately strengthening their internal narrative of hate as well as their resolve to carry out these heinous acts of violence. If this continues, I'm afraid that the people who most need police intervention may find the police reluctant to act or reluctant to remain on those police forces with the result that violence and crime in inner cities will be allowed to rise. It has already produced that effect in Baltimore, where police officers are leaving the force in droves for safer municipalities with a concomitant increase in the rate of murders in the Baltimore area. Several other similar cities have experienced the same phenomenon.

I think that the media has got to stop fomenting the discord and allow federal investigators to determine the facts in some of these questionable shootings. The media is pandering to people's fears and emotions to increase their market share and that is yellow journalism at its worst. The media could do a much greater service in pressuring government to deal with the impression of police oppression in these communities and the underlying socioeconomic factors that drives both the crime and aggressive policing which unfortunately spills over in unfortunate ways and affects black people who are not even part of these communities. They can do this without creating hysteria in the public by returning to real journalism and by putting politicians on the hot seat.

[Ethereal]

I do think that the persistent anti-cop rhetoric is bringing the nutty extremists out of the woodwork and unfortunately strengthening their internal narrative of hate as well as their resolve to carry out these heinous acts of violence. If this continues, I'm afraid that the people who most need police intervention may find the police reluctant to act or reluctant to remain on those police forces with the result that violence and crime in inner cities will be allowed to rise. It has already produced that effect in Baltimore, where police officers are leaving the force in droves for safer municipalities with a concomitant increase in the rate of murders in the Baltimore area. Several other similar cities have experienced the same phenomenon.

I think that the media has got to stop fomenting the discord and allow federal investigators to determine the facts in some of these questionable shootings. The media is pandering to people's fears and emotions to increase their market share and that is yellow journalism at its worst. The media could do a much greater service in pressuring government to deal with the impression of police oppression in these communities and the underlying socioeconomic factors that drives both the crime and aggressive policing which unfortunately spills over in unfortunate ways and affects black people who are not even part of these communities. They can do this without creating hysteria in the public by returning to real journalism and putting policians on the hot seat.

I will try to give a more lengthy response later, but the simple solution is to end the war on drugs. It accounts for the large majority of gang-related violence and serves as the primary pretext for most interactions between police and urban communities.

[Ethereal]

So you want your cake and eat it too.

the black insurgency thst you support is killing police officers

Those crimes were committed by two individuals, not an entire movement. Why is it so difficult for you to make that simple distinction?

[Mac-7]

I will try to give a more lengthy response later, but the simple solution is to end the war on drugs. It accounts for the large majority of gang-related violence and serves as the primary pretext for most interactions between police and urban communities.

Oh my God.

It always comes down to drugs for some people.

Leave them alone to get high and they dont care about anything else

[Dr. Who]

I will try to give a more lengthy response later, but the simple solution is to end the war on drugs. It accounts for the large majority of gang-related violence and serves as the primary pretext for most interactions between police and urban communities.
That may well be, but beyond the drug-fueled gang banging in those urban communities, there are fundamental socioeconomic issues. Drug sales would not be a significant form of self-employment if there were not also other pervasive underlying problems.

[Mac-7]

Those crimes were committed by two individuals, not an entire movement. Why is it so difficult for you to make that simple distinction?

Yes I blame the entire black lives matter movement as long as it leads some black radicals to kill police officers.

[Dr. Who]

Yes I blame the entire black lives matter movement as long as it leads some black radicals to kill police officers.
The extremists are less inspired by BLM than by the media and internet traffic that is fomenting anti-cop rhetoric and racial divisions. Both white and black police officers have been killed by these killers. Both of the killers showed symptoms of paranoia and certainly Logan was a member of both black separatist groups and anti-government groups. He was likely most inspired by Johnson's actions if you consider his statements about standing on rights and the role of black men. Both were also former military and at this point we don't know what factors have played into their delusional behavior.

[Ethereal]

Oh my God.

It always comes down to drugs for some people.

Leave them alone to get high and they dont care about anything else

Leaving people alone is an alien concept to big government types.

[Mac-7]

The extremists are less inspired by BLM than by the media and internet traffic that is fomenting anti-cop rhetoric and racial divisions. Both white and black police officers have been killed by these killers. Both of the killers showed symptoms of paranoia and certainly Logan was a member of both black separatist groups and anti-government groups. He was likely most inspired by Johnson's actions if you consider his statements about standing on rights and the role of black men.

Both were also former military and at this point we don't know what factors have played into their delusional behavior.

How About 8 years of obama attacking the police as racists?

Starting with his condemnation of his white grandmother as a racist he has consistently presented the black grievence side of race relations in America.

Its almost as if the little black boy who grew up with stories of British colonialism in africe along slavery and jim crow in america Is now tilting the scales of justice the other way.

that explains making a public gesture of returning Winston Churchill's bust in the white house to the british and calling the police in Cambridge Mass stupid and racists even as he admitted that he did not have all the facts to go on.

That habit of taking the side of black people and being against the cops continued with the Traavon Martin and michel brown killings and has directly led to the BLM movement and the chant

"Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon."

Yes social justice activists masquarading as journalists have willingly carried obamas message of hate and divisiveness to the public.

But they are just servants of the master.

[Mac-7]

The extremists are less inspired by BLM than by the media and internet traffic that is fomenting anti-cop rhetoric and racial divisions. Both white and black police officers have been killed by these killers. Both of the killers showed symptoms of paranoia and certainly Logan was a member of both black separatist groups and anti-government groups. He was likely most inspired by Johnson's actions if you consider his statements about standing on rights and the role of black men. Both were also former military and at this point we don't know what factors have played into their delusional behavior.

You should see how much damage the drugs do to black people in the hood or the poor/stupid white underclass.

[Common]

The killer was one of Fairy Cans <farah Khan> racist muslims. Obamas neighbor and friend.

Police hate Obama and blame him and the media and other mouths that have made them the bad guys and they are right on the money with that.

One thing is for certain after reading the threads on this shooting in this thread and another and others and the responses by some. One thing is dead certain.

I WILL NEVER HAVE ANY REMORSE OR EVER ADMIT A POLICE OFFICER WAS WRONG IN SHOOTING ANYONE AGAIN.

Most of the Country supports the police and knows they are not the bad guys. They are the people that come whenever you call them, no matter who you are. Racism in this country is far worse than it ever has been

If it ever became necessary I am willing and able to take up arms and stand with the Police and Ill bet theres a whole lot more of us.

[Mac-7]

The killer was one of Fairy Cans <farah Khan> racist muslims. Obamas neighbor and friend.

Police hate Obama and blame him and the media and other mouths that have made them the bad guys and they are right on the money with that.

One thing is for certain after reading the threads on this shooting in this thread and another and others and the responses by some. One thing is dead certain.

I WILL NEVER HAVE ANY REMORSE OR EVER ADMIT A POLICE OFFICER WAS WRONG IN SHOOTING ANYONE AGAIN.

Most of the Country supports the police and knows they are not the bad guys. They are the people that come whenever you call them, no matter who you are. Racism in this country is far worse than it ever has been

If it ever became necessary I am willing and able to take up arms and stand with the Police and Ill bet theres a whole lot more of us.

White racism used to be a real problem

But now the KKK has been replaced by the congressional black caucus, the new black panthers, the nation of islam, and black lives matter to name just a few.

George wallace and bull connor have been replaced by Barack obama and many other black race baiters

[Truth Detector]

I don't think his skin color is all that important. And I don't think ramping up the police's already militarized tactics is going to solve the problem. If anything, it will only make it worse.

His race is tantamount in importance; it is an attack on white cops as a result of Obama, the media and the BLM movement and this moronic and false naarative that the reason young blacks are getting shot by police is that.....they......wait for it......are black and whites are racists.

[Truth Detector]

For example, the US military tried to defeat the insurgency with overwhelming force. I heard some stories...

But this only fueled the insurgency by creating resentment among the populace.

So the strategy was shifted to "hearts and minds".

Granted, a lot of that amounted to bribing Sunni tribal leaders, but there was also genuine efforts to engage with the populace and to reform our overly aggressive ROEs.

And it worked pretty well for a while. It certainly worked better than the iron fist approach we tried early on.

The same logic applies in America. Increasing the aggression will only cause resentment of police to intensify.

Wrong; we were beating the insurgents all they way up and until Obama removed our troops from Iraq. Let us not forget how Obama the retard claimed that ISIS was JV in the beginning. This administration is like a Laurel and Hardy re-run and events like these are part of the disaster.

[Truth Detector]

Thank Christ ... it it'd been a honkey it'd've been a righteous shoot.

So you're okay with black Islamists and lunatics murdering cops? No shocker there. After all; you are a proponent of disarming law abiding citizens and supporting criminal thugs. Dumb.

[Truth Detector]

They didn't tie our hands at all. I know Marines who shot almost anyone they wanted for almost any reason they wanted. That caused massive resentment among the Iraqis which fueled the insurgency. That's why Petraeus changed strategies and restricted our ROEs starting around 2007. And it worked pretty well. Violence decreased and cooperation increased.

BULLSHIT ALERT!!Hang on; it's time to grab the hip waders again. :biglaugh:

[Truth Detector]

Shooting pretty much anyone you want whenever you want seems overwhelming to me.

BULLSCHIT ALERT #2We might need life vests instead of hip waders. Yep, AmeriKa is an eviiil empire in the minds of lunatics.

[Truth Detector]

Unless you think all my senior Marines were lying constantly about what happened during their deployments to Iraq, then I have no idea what you're basing that on.

I don't think THEY are lying; I think YOU are lying and creating a false narrative much like the BLM movement. Dumb.

[Truth Detector]

We need to collectively avoid responding to Dickwad henceforth.

Irony in the above eruption. :biglaugh:

[Truth Detector]

I tend to side with the so-called "black insurgency", so I guess you'll have to watch me, too.

Good to know; so you're okay with sniping cops? Dumb.

[Truth Detector]

I don't side with cop murderers or any murderers for that matter. Murder is immoral.

I side with people who protest police brutality.

And yet, the narrative is false. But you seem to be okay with that too. Dumb.

[Truth Detector]

I do think that the persistent anti-cop rhetoric is bringing the nutty extremists out of the woodwork and unfortunately strengthening their internal narrative of hate as well as their resolve to carry out these heinous acts of violence. If this continues, I'm afraid that the people who most need police intervention may find the police reluctant to act or reluctant to remain on those police forces with the result that violence and crime in inner cities will be allowed to rise. It has already produced that effect in Baltimore, where police officers are leaving the force in droves for safer municipalities with a concomitant increase in the rate of murders in the Baltimore area. Several other similar cities have experienced the same phenomenon.

I think that the media has got to stop fomenting the discord and allow federal investigators to determine the facts in some of these questionable shootings. The media is pandering to people's fears and emotions to increase their market share and that is yellow journalism at its worst. The media could do a much greater service in pressuring government to deal with the impression of police oppression in these communities and the underlying socioeconomic factors that drives both the crime and aggressive policing which unfortunately spills over in unfortunate ways and affects black people who are not even part of these communities. They can do this without creating hysteria in the public by returning to real journalism and by putting politicians on the hot seat.

^A Liberal who gets it.

[Truth Detector]

I will try to give a more lengthy response later, but the simple solution is to end the war on drugs. It accounts for the large majority of gang-related violence and serves as the primary pretext for most interactions between police and urban communities.

Drugs are most of the reason blacks are getting killed in the leftist controlled urban sewers of America. You think that making drugs legal it will reduce the amount of crime in these places? Moronic.

[Truth Detector]

Leaving people alone is an alien concept to big government types.

I am amused by the moronic argument that if we have no laws, no law enforcement and just left people alone, we would achieve a utopian existence. dumb.

[Tahuyaman]

I tend to side with the so-called "black insurgency", so I guess you'll have to watch me, too.

that explains a lot.

[Tahuyaman]

I will try to give a more lengthy response later, but the simple solution is to end the war on drugs. It accounts for the large majority of gang-related violence and serves as the primary pretext for most interactions betweepn police and urban communities.


That's not going to hapoen, so what's the realistic response and solution? The one which could be implemented under current law and conditions.

[MisterVeritis]

I don't side with cop murderers or any murderers for that matter. Murder is immoral.

I side with people who protest police brutality.
Protesting police brutality, when it occurs, is reasonable for everybody. Promoting a fabric of lies is quite another. BLM is far more agitation and propaganda and far, far less truth. They began on a lie and they spread their lies. BLM works for this divisive, evil president who is the scourge of this nation. May they all go to hell.

[MisterVeritis]

To defeat an insurgency one must do a variety of things. We learned the right lessons in Vietnam. We forgot those lessons after our defeat.

To defeat the Black Insurgency (BI) in the US we will need some tough measures. If you are part of a hate group like BLM or if you have any dealings with race baiters link Sharpton, the washed-up, brain damaged Jesse Jackson or that evil reprobate Barrack Hussein O You should be watched around the clock.

The best answer is to elect a president who can improve job availability. That means Trump.

Good luck violating Black Insurgents' 2nd Amendment Rights.
There was a time when I would wonder and marvel at the conclusions you arrive at. Then I realized there is no correlation between my statements and your conclusions. You are a damaged person. I cannot fix you.

[Mo B]

What's the new freedom movement?

[MisterVeritis]

I side with anyone who opposes government oppression, whether they're black or white.

Many "small government conservatives" have a soft spot for government enforcement agents that I simply do not share.

That does not in any way imply that murdering them is acceptable. It's not.

But protesting, speaking out, and civil disobedience I find entirely acceptable and even laudable.
Like many people who wander close to the truth on occasion you pick up the closest shiny object. You think you have accomplished something.

Limited government Conservatives (note it is not the government's size, it is its scope) have a "soft spot" for the Constitution. The primary purpose of the Federal government is to protect its citizens from external and internal threats. The federal government, specifically, one evil man at the top, Barack Hussein O, has been the principal cheerleader for the war against the police. He deserves to be hanged for his crimes. He is the source of government oppression. He sides with Black Lives Matter, a racist, divisive, violent, anti-cop movement consisting of mostly useful idiots, and agitators. The leadership deserves to be hanged for their crimes. He sides with one of the worst race-pimps alive, Al Sharpton. If there is enough rope left, hang him too.

You are one of the useful idiots. You shouldn't be. You linger near the truth without ever accepting it. That is a shame.

[MisterVeritis]

So when someone uses the actions of a few people to smear the entire BLM movement, how is that any different than someone using the actions of few people to smear all conservatives and libertarians?

If this individual is representative of the entire BLM movement, does that mean Timothy McVeigh is representative of the entire patriot movement?

Why do people have such a hard time judging people on an individual basis? Is it really that difficult to make distinctions between people who murder random police officers and people who peacefully protest institutionalized oppression?
If it was just one person who murdered police officers it would be easy. But we have a racist, evil president who supports Black Lives Matter, a violent, anti-cop movement whose leadership is agitating for cop murders. The lone wolves are inspired by the BLMs lies. The murderers are useful idiots, patsies, of a cohesive, evil movement.

As to your McVeigh comment, when was the last time you saw someone in the Patriot Movement (I admit I have never heard of it) chanting in America's cities "FEDS in a blanket, FRY 'em like bacon", or "What do we want? DEAD FEDS! When do we want it? NOW"?

[MisterVeritis]

Those crimes were committed by two individuals, not an entire movement. Why is it so difficult for you to make that simple distinction?
You have completely discounted the agitation that the President, Sharpton, and BLM have engaged in for years. It is almost as if history, for you, started just last week.

You have shown your ability to reason. We do not always agree. That is okay. At least clearly reason, if not for us do it for yourself, why you are supporting murdering cops. Despite your protests that is what you are doing.

[Cigar]

If it was just one person who murdered police officers it would be easy. But we have a racist, evil president who supports Black Lives Matter, a violent, anti-cop movement whose leadership is agitating for cop murders. The lone wolves are inspired by the BLMs lies. The murderers are useful idiots, patsies, of a cohesive, evil movement.

As to your McVeigh comment, when was the last time you saw someone in the Patriot Movement (I admit I have never heard of it) chanting in America's cities "FEDS in a blanket, FRY 'em like bacon", or "What do we want? DEAD FEDS! When do we want it? NOW".


If you know something the rest of us don't, why are you not reporting this crime to the FBI? :huh:

Why are you allowing innocent people to be killed, if you already know who's responsible? :huh:

[MisterVeritis]

The extremists are less inspired by BLM than by the media and internet traffic that is fomenting anti-cop rhetoric and racial divisions.
This kind of thinking is very naive. Whose rhetoric do you believe the media are posting and running with? May I offer three good starting points for your consideration? First, the racist, evil President of the United States. Second, the race-pimp, Al Sharpton. Third, BlackLivesMatter.


Both white and black police officers have been killed by these killers. Both of the killers showed symptoms of paranoia and certainly Logan was a member of both black separatist groups and anti-government groups. He was likely most inspired by Johnson's actions if you consider his statements about standing on rights and the role of black men. Both were also former military and at this point we don't know what factors have played into their delusional behavior.
You parrot the President. He has a stake in muddying the waters. He is the primary reason for the divide.

[MisterVeritis]

Leaving people alone is an alien concept to big government types.
In my opinion, the better way to fight prohibition is through the Constitution's Article V process. This is why we have Federalism. The Federal government has no business, Constitutionally, in determining what substances citizens may put on or in their bodies.

[Mo B]

You have completely discounted the agitation that the President, Sharpton, and BLM have engaged in for years. It is almost as if history, for you, started just last week.

You have shown your ability to reason. We do not always agree. That is okay. At least clearly reason, if not for us do it for yourself, why you are supporting murdering cops. Despite your protests that is what you are doing.blm hasn't been around for years. IMO Obama and blm haven't engaged in anything other noting the racial divide in our country that came more obvious after he was elected. Like a sore.

[Mo B]

This is the group the nut belonged too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washitaw_Nation

[MisterVeritis]

If you know something the rest of us don't, why are you not reporting this crime to the FBI? :huh:

Why are you allowing innocent people to be killed, if you already know who's responsible? :huh:
Get lost. You are part of the problem.

[OGIS]

I don't think his skin color is all that important. And I don't think ramping up the police's already militarized tactics is going to solve the problem. If anything, it will only make it worse.

Ya think?

Roided-up cops tangle with ex-military raged-up black dudes?

The only answer is to keep blacks out of the military, and to round up all black vets as potential turrists.

[MisterVeritis]

blm hasn't been around for years. IMO Obama and blm haven't engaged in anything other noting the racial divide in our country that came more obvious after he was elected. Like a sore.
BLM started with Martin-Zimmerman. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter)That is years ago, unless you think that happened this year.

Obama has been blaming police and siding with black racists since the beginning of his presidency.

[JDubya]

BLM started with Martin-Zimmerman. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter)That is years ago, unless you think that happened this year.

Obama has been blaming police and siding with black racists since the beginning of his presidency.

Bullshit.

He has always walked straight down the middle, which is his responsibility as President.

The problem with people like you, is that you think if he says one word that isn't in full, 100% support of your side, you falsely accuse him of being 100% on the other side.

Pure partisan nonsense.

And btw, it's people like you who complain so much about racial division, who are at least as much to blame for it, if not moreso, as those you accuse.

People like you WANT to be racially divided.

Your poutrage over it is phony.

[spunkloaf]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/17/gavin-eugene-long-identified-baton-rouge-gunman/

The Baton Rouge gunman has been identified as Gavin Eugene Long, according to multiple news outlets Sunday afternoon.

Citing unnamed “sources,” CBS News reported (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/baton-rouge-police-shooting-suspects-information/) that Mr. Long was a black man from Kansas City, Missouri, who committed the ambush on his 29th birthday. The network also identified him as an ex-Marine.
NBC News reported the same name (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baton-rouge-police-ambush/three-baton-rouge-officers-killed-three-injured-ambush-n611101) some moments later, citing “several law enforcement officials.”
The Wall Street Journal reported, citing “a person briefed on the investigation,” that the suspect had ties (http://www.washingtontimes.com/admin/stories/story/1490844/on.wsj.com/2a3NlHT) to “an antigovernment group called the New Freedom Group.” MSNBC also reported relationships with a different anti-government group, the Sovereign Citizens.
Three officers were killed and three were more injured Sunday in what police are describing as an ambush attack. The gunman was slain by police, though authorities are searching for possible accomplices.


---------------------------------

Oh, I almost forgot! Has obastard gave a statement yet?





These pieces of shit say they are tired of police harassment (their words), well, they ain't seen nothing yet.

I think it's really numb-skulled of you to add more fuel to this fire. I'm so glad yours is a dying breed, because there's no room for this kind of arrogance and hatred in the world. I hope God has mercy on your sad, lonely soul.

[Oboe]

I get it. You can't address the topic, so like most liberals you attack the messenger. I've been collecting posts from liberal idiots on this forum to display on another forum trying to get more people to see what imbeciles the left is made of. May I copy your post? It is sufficiently stupid to be included in my array, and will help Trump immensely. Do you mind?

Thank you so much. Mr. Trump thanks you as well.

[Oboe]

Bullshit.

He has always walked straight down the middle, which is his responsibility as President.

The problem with people like you, is that you think if he says one word that isn't in full, 100% support of your side, you falsely accuse him of being 100% on the other side.

Pure partisan nonsense.

And btw, it's people like you who complain so much about racial division, who are at least as much to blame for it, if not moreso, as those you accuse.

People like you WANT to be racially divided.

Your poutrage over it is phony.


Must be that far left divisive middle.

[Mac-7]

I think it's really numb-skulled of you to add more fuel to this fire. I'm so glad yours is a dying breed, because there's no room for this kind of arrogance and hatred in the world. I hope God has mercy on your sad, lonely soul.

Black people are murdering cops by threes and you are mad at Oboe for speaking out about it?

Thats really stupid

[Mac-7]

Your outrage over it is phony.


Right on Bro!

Shame on Mr V for his phony outrage over black people killing white cops.

but if white conservatives dont support the cops no one will.

[JDubya]

Right on Bro!

Shame on Mr V for his phony outrage over black people killing white cops.

but if white conservatives dont support the cops no one will.

That's not what I was referring to.

He falsely accused Obama of siding with black racists against the police.

Stop obfuscating and twisting my words.

That's all you right-wingers ever do because it's all you have going for you.

[Cigar]

That's not what I was referring to.

He falsely accused Obama of siding with black racists against the police.

Stop obfuscating and twisting my words.

That's all you right-wingers ever do because it's all you have going for you.


Maybe he has been listening to the wrong Barack Obama :laugh:

[Oboe]

I guarantee that when the police start pulling over blacks for whatever reason, it aint gonna be the same, and I don't blame them a bit.

When I worked at the prison the blacks were the hardest ones to deal with. They would refuse to do what you told them, argue, refuse to keep their hands still, accuse you of being a racist, etc,etc. The difference is that convicts are captive and corrections officers have nowhere near the latitude police have. This one pos was told to put his his hands down by his side. He refused and started asking me what was I gonna do about it, call rank? I said no, I'm going to gas you and then call rank, Before he could finish his next threat I had put about 3 oz. of top cop on his ass. LOL! He was a good boy after that.

But as I said, police have far greater latitude than corrections officers do. These mouthy punks better watch out.

[Truth Detector]

Bull$#@!.

He has always walked straight down the middle, which is his responsibility as President.

The problem with people like you, is that you think if he says one word that isn't in full, 100% support of your side, you falsely accuse him of being 100% on the other side.

Pure partisan nonsense.

And btw, it's people like you who complain so much about racial division, who are at least as much to blame for it, if not moreso, as those you accuse.

People like you WANT to be racially divided.

Your poutrage over it is phony.

I am pretty sure he said this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAPtUfOs7Gs

Obama: "If I Had A Son, He Would Look Like Trayvon"

[MisterVeritis]

BLM started with Martin-Zimmerman. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter)That is years ago, unless you think that happened this year.

Obama has been blaming police and siding with black racists since the beginning of his presidency.

Bull$#@!.

He has always walked straight down the middle, which is his responsibility as President.

The problem with people like you, is that you think if he says one word that isn't in full, 100% support of your side, you falsely accuse him of being 100% on the other side.

Pure partisan nonsense.

And btw, it's people like you who complain so much about racial division, who are at least as much to blame for it, if not moreso, as those you accuse.

People like you WANT to be racially divided.

Your poutrage over it is phony.
Your lies will not help the president, the situation, nor you. You should stop.

[Truth Detector]

I think it's really numb-skulled of you to add more fuel to this fire. I'm so glad yours is a dying breed, because there's no room for this kind of arrogance and hatred in the world. I hope God has mercy on your sad, lonely soul.


I get it. You can't address the topic, so like most liberals you attack the messenger. I've been collecting posts from liberal idiots on this forum to display on another forum trying to get more people to see what imbeciles the left is made of. May I copy your post? It is sufficiently stupid to be included in my array, and will help Trump immensely. Do you mind?

Thank you so much. Mr. Trump thanks you as well.

No one can do stupid as good as spunkyloaf.....great screen name too! Spot on. :biglaugh:

[Truth Detector]

BLM started with Martin-Zimmerman. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter)That is years ago, unless you think that happened this year.

Obama has been blaming police and siding with black racists since the beginning of his presidency.

Your lies will not help the president, the situation, nor you. You should stop.

He caint hep it; he's a librul! That's what libruls do....besides supporting and defending corrupt, sociopathic lying, unaccomplished and incompetent harpy's like Hillary. ;)

[Oboe]

That's not what I was referring to.

He falsely accused Obama of siding with black racists against the police.

Stop obfuscating and twisting my words.

That's all you right-wingers ever do because it's all you have going for you.

That's what obama has done. He has stirred the races up as was his intention. Any president that sends a delegation to a black criminals funerals and sends feds to prosecute the cop, is scum.

Another thing, you liberal trolls need to go back to your old tactics. Taking my words and using them on conservatives makes you look like you don't have an original thought. You do have one, don't you?

[Oboe]

Oops.

[MisterVeritis]

I think it's really numb-skulled of you to add more fuel to this fire. I'm so glad yours is a dying breed, because there's no room for this kind of arrogance and hatred in the world. I hope God has mercy on your sad, lonely soul.
Don't be silly.

Oboe offered a Washington Times story. Did you abuse him for arrogance and hatred? LOL. But you are glad he will be dead soon so far more advanced thinkers, people like you, I suppose, can continue to make a muddled mess of everything you touch. Now that is arrogance and hatred.

[Mac-7]

That's not what I was referring to.

He falsely accused Obama of siding with black racists against the police.

Stop obfuscating and twisting my words.

That's all you right-wingers ever do because it's all you have going for you.

Thats not false

its a fact

obama has even hosted BLM at the white house

[Oboe]

I am pretty sure he said this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAPtUfOs7Gs

Obama: "If I Had A Son, He Would Look Like Trayvon"


15225

[Cigar]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/17/gavin-eugene-long-identified-baton-rouge-gunman/

The Baton Rouge gunman has been identified as Gavin Eugene Long, according to multiple news outlets Sunday afternoon.

Citing unnamed “sources,” CBS News reported (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/baton-rouge-police-shooting-suspects-information/) that Mr. Long was a black man from Kansas City, Missouri, who committed the ambush on his 29th birthday. The network also identified him as an ex-Marine.
NBC News reported the same name (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baton-rouge-police-ambush/three-baton-rouge-officers-killed-three-injured-ambush-n611101) some moments later, citing “several law enforcement officials.”
The Wall Street Journal reported, citing “a person briefed on the investigation,” that the suspect had ties (http://www.washingtontimes.com/admin/stories/story/1490844/on.wsj.com/2a3NlHT) to “an antigovernment group called the New Freedom Group.” MSNBC also reported relationships with a different anti-government group, the Sovereign Citizens.
Three officers were killed and three were more injured Sunday in what police are describing as an ambush attack. The gunman was slain by police, though authorities are searching for possible accomplices.


---------------------------------

Oh, I almost forgot! Has o$#@! gave a statement yet?





These pieces of $#@! say they are tired of police harassment (their words), well, they ain't seen nothing yet.

Oboe are you going to make an announcement for every Murderer or just The Black ones? :laugh:

[Cigar]

Thats not false

its a fact

obama has even hosted BLM at the white house


:shocked: No way ... meeting with The Black Community and BLMs and Police Officers .... shocking :laugh:

[MisterVeritis]

That's not what I was referring to.

He falsely accused Obama of siding with black racists against the police.

Stop obfuscating and twisting my words.

That's all you right-wingers ever do because it's all you have going for you.
I correctly accused Barack Hussein O of siding against the police. Do you agree or disagree that Al Sharpton spends far more time in the White House than the heads of Police Departments do? Do you agree or disagree that the president has honored the violent anti-cop group, Black Lives Matter with a visit to the White House?

[Oboe]

Oboe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1977) are you going to make an announcement for every Murderer or just The Black ones?


Troll, there is an organized attack underway on police by blacks. I'm sure that while you approve of it, I don't. Blacks are doing this, no one else.

[MisterVeritis]

That's all you right-wingers ever do because it's all you have going for you.
Why do you continue to lie?

[Cigar]

Troll, there is an organized attack underway on police by blacks. I'm sure that while you approve of it, I don't. Blacks are doing this, no one else.


Well you're right about that ... the attack was organized and the individual shooters were Black ... but highly doubt the entire Black Race go together and planned it. If so, no one called me.

[Oboe]

Why do you continue to lie?


It's one of the lefts favorites tactics. You see this all over the internet. They lie and spin and make false accusations, hoping to sway people lurking. It used to work but not anymore.

[MisterVeritis]

:shocked: No way ... meeting with The Black Community and BLMs and Police Officers .... shocking :laugh:
Obama praised BLM. I am not surprised.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIyxJwswVVA

[Oboe]

Well you're right about that ... the attack was organized and the individual shooters were Black ... but highly doubt the entire Black Race go together and planned it. If so, no one called me.

More deflection. fail. No one mentioned the whole black race troll.

[Mac-7]

@Oboe (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1977) are you going to make an announcement for every Murderer or just The Black ones? :laugh:

Obumer commented on the three cops murdered by a black muslim so why cant the rest of us mention it too?

[Cigar]

More deflection. fail. No one mentioned the whole black race troll.

Just checking sport

[Cigar]

Obumer commented on the three cops murdered by a black muslim so why cant the rest of us mention it too?


Who said you couldn't? :huh:

[Oboe]

In that video, on the right side, is that Mr. "Guam will capsize"?

[Truth Detector]

Well you're right about that ... the attack was organized and the individual shooters were Black ... but highly doubt the entire Black Race go together and planned it. If so, no one called me.

Fascinating; yet you and your leftist cabal here attempt to link ALL gun owners with the lunatic who shot up Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church and take down any vestige of the Confederate flag as if Dylann Roof represented all gun owners and white southern rednecks.

You're not smart enough to comprehend the hypocrisy that oozes from any of your posts. Seriously. :biglaugh:

[Truth Detector]

Obama praised BLM. I am not surprised.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIyxJwswVVA

There you go again; confusing race hustlers with the facts! :laugh:

[Mac-7]

Who said you couldn't? :huh:

Couldnt or shouldnt?

you seem offended that another poster was pointing out all these black killers of cops without including other races.

[Oboe]

Fascinating; yet you and your leftist cabal here attempt to link ALL gun owners with the lunatic who shot up Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church and take down any vestige of the Confederate flag as if Dylann Roof represented all gun owners and white southern rednecks.

You're not smart enough to comprehend the hypocrisy that oozes from any of your posts. Seriously. :biglaugh:



Confederate Flag Kills 7 At Alabama Shopping Mall

Jun 26, 2015



http://dailycurrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ThinkstockPhotos-512548735-e1435326395580-257x180.jpg

Seven people were killed this morning when a Confederate flag walked into an Alabama shopping mall and started shooting.
According to local reports, the flag entered Cherrywood Mall outside Huntsville armed with two AK-47 assault rifles, a P 228 handgun and several grenades. It immediately proceeded to unload its ordinance on unsuspecting shoppers.
In addition to those killed, 23 people were injured and are currently being treated in area emergency rooms. Several are in critical condition and not expected to survive.
The flag’s motivations are uncertain at the moment. However, according to witnesses the flag did specifically target White people with Northern accents.
“The flag chased us down the hallway screaming ‘Die, Yankees Die!’, says Justin Anderson, an aeronautical engineer originally from New Hampshire. “Luckily flags don’t move very fast, so my girlfriend and I managed to outrun it.”
Lucy Patterson, a homemaker from New Jersey wasn’t so lucky. Both her legs were blown off when the flag lobbed a hand grenade at her feet.
“It looked straight into my eyes, pulled the pin, and threw a deathball my way,” she says. “It was so cold-blooded. Almost as if it weren't human.”
Shortly thereafter the flag turned the gun on itself, shooting itself in the pole several times. Rushed to Huntsville Beth-Israel Medical Center, it was pronounced dead on arrival.
Confederate flags have increasingly been committing mass shootings in the South. Although retailers like Wal-Mart and Amazon have belatedly banned their sale, the existing stockpile of flags should be considered armed and extremely dangerous.

http://dailycurrant.com/2015/06/26/confederate-flag-kills-7-at-alabama-shopping-mall/

[Mac-7]

Why is it always blacks and muslims causing trouble?

the chinese are not murdering cops or burning down chinatown.

[Oboe]

Why is it always blacks and muslims causing trouble?

the chinese are not murdering cops or burning down chinatown.


I don't know, but it's gotten so bad that when i go anywhere I have a rifle and a shotgun, plus my wife and I both carry. It aint safe.

[exotix]

*update*

Weapons recovered from Baton Rouge cop massacre


http://i63.tinypic.com/j7sqpi.jpg

[MisterVeritis]

In that video, on the right side, is that Mr. "Guam will capsize"?
No.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesSRfXqS1Q

[Ethereal]

you failed to answer. You're not stupid. You know full well drugs will not be legalized in the near future. What is the workable solution right now under current conditions? Don't argue a solution which you know is not going to happen. Be realistic.

You didn't ask me for a "realistic" answer, you just asked me what I thought should be done and I provided you with an honest answer. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean I "failed" to answer the question.

Your position, as usual, is pretty ridiculous, but knowing you, you will never, ever admit it or acknowledge it in anyway, and you will keep acting like I didn't answer your question even though my answer is time-stamped on a public forum.

[Ethereal]

I wasn't in WWII either, but I know the history of it.

sheesh.....

The lengths people go to avoid exposing their view is mystifying.

Yea, but the people who were actually there during WWII probably know more about their own ROEs than you do. I know it's hard for you to admit that I know more about what happened in Iraq post-2003 than you do, but it's the truth. I served with hundreds of Marines who deployed to Iraq post-2003, and I did a deployment there myself in 2007 during the surge. I know a lot more about what the ROEs were than someone who didn't spend a single day in Iraq during the time in question.

[Ethereal]

It would be vitally important to the lib news media if he were white and shooting up black churches.

So yes, the fact that blacks are coming out of tje woodwork like $#@!roaches to kill white police is worth noting.

It's not vitally important to me. I don't think it's important at all, really. Unless you think black skin makes a person shoot other people, I have no idea what the actual relevance of his melanin content would be.

[Ethereal]

That may well be, but beyond the drug-fueled gang banging in those urban communities, there are fundamental socioeconomic issues. Drug sales would not be a significant form of self-employment if there were not also other pervasive underlying problems.

That's true. There are many contributing factors, like poor education systems and bad economic policies. I just think the war on drugs is the largest contributor to the observed phenomenon. Even the language of the policy, WAR on drugs, engenders militant overtones.

[Ethereal]

Yes I blame the entire black lives matter movement as long as it leads some black radicals to kill police officers.

So do you blame every movement for the actions of a few? Or just movements you don't like?

[Ethereal]

You should see how much damage the drugs do to black people in the hood or the poor/stupid white underclass.

A big reason why drugs do as much damage to people in those communities is the war on drugs.

It creates a black market where competition between sellers is settled, not by reasoning in courtrooms, but with guns in the streets.

When is the last time a low-level Budweiser employee gunned down someone from Miller Lite in a dispute over turf or customers?

And apart from prohibition-related violence, there is also the negative effect prohibition has on the people who use illegal drugs.

Issues with the quality and safety of a drug are always a concern because there is little transparency or social oversight, as there would be in a regulated market like alcohol or tobacco.

And getting help for an addiction to illegal drugs can also prove problematic given the harsh social and legal stigma attached to their use.

Really, I could go on and on and on about how drug prohibition causes all sorts of very serious problems. The list is almost endless.

Conversely, it provides almost no discernible social or economic benefits. It's just a gargantuan black hole of wasted resources, potential, and freedom.

[Dr. Who]

That's true. There are many contributing factors, like poor education systems and bad economic policies. I just think the war on drugs is the largest contributor to the observed phenomenon. Even the language of the policy, WAR on drugs, engenders militant overtones.
I sometimes wonder if the agenda behind the War on Drugs is calculated to keep young black males off the unemployment roles and not turning their attention to their lack of opportunities in a political fashion?

[Ethereal]

I WILL NEVER HAVE ANY REMORSE OR EVER ADMIT A POLICE OFFICER WAS WRONG IN SHOOTING ANYONE AGAIN.

That is precisely the kind of attitude that will only cause things to escalate and get more police officers killed. If your intention is to protect police officers, then you should be trying to deescalate the situation, not dig your heels in and refuse to acknowledge how police state policies have contributed to the increasing sense of alienation among many Americans, black and white.

[Ethereal]

His race is tantamount in importance; it is an attack on white cops as a result of Obama, the media and the BLM movement and this moronic and false naarative that the reason young blacks are getting shot by police is that.....they......wait for it......are black and whites are racists.

I'm shocked that you think it's all Obama's fault.

[Ethereal]

Wrong; we were beating the insurgents all they way up and until Obama removed our troops from Iraq. Let us not forget how Obama the retard claimed that ISIS was JV in the beginning. This administration is like a Laurel and Hardy re-run and events like these are part of the disaster.

We didn't start seeing success in Iraq until we changed strategies to winning "hearts and minds". I was there when this happened. It's called the "Sunni awakening" because Sunni tribal leaders were persuaded to work with coalition forces against AQI.

[Ethereal]

BULL$#@! ALERT!!Hang on; it's time to grab the hip waders again. :biglaugh:

Unlike you, I was actually in the Marine infantry during that time and knew hundreds of Marines who deployed to Iraq. The ROEs were pretty lax in the beginning. All "military-aged males" were basically fair game. And there was not a lot of emphasis placed on positively identifying threats. For example, if someone took a pot shot at you from a general direction, then you were basically cleared to return heavy fire back in that general direction, even if there was substantial civilian infrastructure in the way. By the time I got to Iraq in 2007, the rules of engagement were much stricter. You were not cleared to fire unless you positively identified a threat, i.e., actually saw the person shooting at you. You couldn't just unload in the general direction of the fire like you could in the early years of the occupation.

[Ethereal]

BULLSCHIT ALERT #2We might need life vests instead of hip waders. Yep, AmeriKa is an eviiil empire in the minds of lunatics.

The US government has a few evil lunatics in it, certainly.

But I'm merely basing my statements off my direct experience in the Marine infantry during that time. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's the truth whether you like it or not.

[Ethereal]

I don't think THEY are lying; I think YOU are lying and creating a false narrative much like the BLM movement. Dumb.

Well I'm not lying. This is what was conveyed to me during my time in the Marines. And the general thrust of my narrative can be confirmed with public data and documents showing that the US military under General Petraeus began shifting strategies to "hearts and minds" during the latter part of the occupation, including stricter ROEs for combat elements. Surely you must remember this? You were probably one of the Republicans complaining about the troops "having their hands tied" by politicians in DC.

[Ethereal]

Good to know; so you're okay with sniping cops? Dumb.

No, but Mister V basically smeared the entire BLM as a "black insurgency" based on the action of a few individuals. So if the entire BLM movement is what he means by "black insurgency", then I guess that's who I'm siding with, because police abuse and corruption are real and need to be addressed politically. Murdering police (or anyone for that matter) is clearly immoral, but there is nothing wrong with protesting, speaking out, or engaging in nonviolent resistance to abusive police state policies.

[Ethereal]

And yet, the narrative is false. But you seem to be okay with that too. Dumb.

No, the narrative is proven true almost every other week by police who wrongly kill American civilians, black and white.

[MisterVeritis]

No, but Mister V basically smeared the entire BLM as a "black insurgency" based on the action of a few individuals. So if the entire BLM movement is what he means by "black insurgency", then I guess that's who I'm siding with, because police abuse and corruption are real and need to be addressed politically. Murdering police (or anyone for that matter) is clearly immoral, but there is nothing wrong with protesting, speaking out, or engaging in nonviolent resistance to abusive police state policies.
BLM consists of the sheep and the leaders. I have written this before. Perhaps you missed it. The leaders involve themselves in agitation and propaganda. They give patsies the inspiration to murder police officers. This is who you have aligned with.

You have made your bed. Publicly. Openly. Without shame.

[Ethereal]

Drugs are most of the reason blacks are getting killed in the leftist controlled urban sewers of America. You think that making drugs legal it will reduce the amount of crime in these places? Moronic.

Repealing alcohol prohibition basically eliminated the black market for alcohol and the violence associated with it, why would it be any different for other forms of prohibition?

Portugal has decriminalized all drugs, yet they did not experience some kind of violent crime wave or epidemic of drug abuse.

Why do so-called "small government conservatives" so vigorously defend one of the most egregious failures of the big government nanny state in American history?

[Ethereal]

I am amused by the moronic argument that if we have no laws, no law enforcement and just left people alone, we would achieve a utopian existence. dumb.

Then it's a good thing I didn't make that argument.

[MisterVeritis]

No, the narrative is proven true almost every other week by police who wrongly kill American civilians, black and white.
Of all the delusions, self-delusions are the most powerful. If police are wrongly killing citizens we should be seeing plenty of trials. Are we?

Every police-involved shooting is investigated, many by Obama's (in)Justice Department. How many instances have they investigated that have determined that officers should stand trial? One? Two?

You are wrong but you are also blind.

[MisterVeritis]

Why do so-called "small government conservatives" so vigorously defend one of the most egregious failures of the big government nanny state in American history?
Do you have a learning disability?

[Ethereal]

that explains a lot.

I put "black insurgency" in quotes for a reason. For some reason, people cannot distinguish between the individuals who committed these crimes and the broader BLM movement. They just blame everyone involved with BLM for the actions of a few individuals. So if everyone involved with the BLM is part of a "black insurgency", then I suppose I have to side with them, since I agree with their views of police militarization and oppressive government.

[Ethereal]

That's not going to hapoen, so what's the realistic response and solution? The one which could be implemented under current law and conditions.

It's going to happen eventually. Legalization efforts are already underway on the state and local level. I will use any opportunity I can to draw attention to the role that drug prohibition plays in the militarization of police and the oppressive role it plays in poorer communities.

[Ethereal]

Protesting police brutality, when it occurs, is reasonable for everybody. Promoting a fabric of lies is quite another. BLM is far more agitation and propaganda and far, far less truth. They began on a lie and they spread their lies. BLM works for this divisive, evil president who is the scourge of this nation. May they all go to hell.

What lies are those, exactly?

[Ethereal]

Like many people who wander close to the truth on occasion you pick up the closest shiny object. You think you have accomplished something.

Limited government Conservatives (note it is not the government's size, it is its scope) have a "soft spot" for the Constitution. The primary purpose of the Federal government is to protect its citizens from external and internal threats. The federal government, specifically, one evil man at the top, Barack Hussein O, has been the principal cheerleader for the war against the police. He deserves to be hanged for his crimes. He is the source of government oppression. He sides with Black Lives Matter, a racist, divisive, violent, anti-cop movement consisting of mostly useful idiots, and agitators. The leadership deserves to be hanged for their crimes. He sides with one of the worst race-pimps alive, Al Sharpton. If there is enough rope left, hang him too.

You are one of the useful idiots. You shouldn't be. You linger near the truth without ever accepting it. That is a shame.

You have plenty insults for me and desires to hang people, but not much of an argument. There's really nothing to address in this post.

[MisterVeritis]

What lies are those, exactly?
They have already been posted and discussed. So I must ask again, do you have a learning disability?

[MisterVeritis]

Like many people who wander close to the truth on occasion you pick up the closest shiny object. You think you have accomplished something.

Limited government Conservatives (note it is not the government's size, it is its scope) have a "soft spot" for the Constitution. The primary purpose of the Federal government is to protect its citizens from external and internal threats. The federal government, specifically, one evil man at the top, Barack Hussein O, has been the principal cheerleader for the war against the police. He deserves to be hanged for his crimes. He is the source of government oppression. He sides with Black Lives Matter, a racist, divisive, violent, anti-cop movement consisting of mostly useful idiots, and agitators. The leadership deserves to be hanged for their crimes. He sides with one of the worst race-pimps alive, Al Sharpton. If there is enough rope left, hang him too.

You are one of the useful idiots. You shouldn't be. You linger near the truth without ever accepting it. That is a shame.

You have plenty insults for me and desires to hang people, but not much of an argument. There's really nothing to address in this post.
Your comment shows I am right. You have little fear of getting close to the truth. But you prefer the shiny object.

Maybe the truth frightens you.

[Tahuyaman]

It's going to happen eventually. Legalization efforts are already underway on the state and local level. I will use any opportunity I can to draw attention to the role that drug prohibition plays in the militarization of police and the oppressive role it plays in poorer communities.


If you have no solution other than something that will not happen any time soon, just say so.

[Ethereal]

If it was just one person who murdered police officers it would be easy. But we have a racist, evil president who supports Black Lives Matter, a violent, anti-cop movement whose leadership is agitating for cop murders. The lone wolves are inspired by the BLMs lies. The murderers are useful idiots, patsies, of a cohesive, evil movement.

BLM is a large group of people, all of whom possess individual beliefs and motivations. I doubt there is a large percentage of them who thinks murdering police officers is okay. Many of the most popular figures in the BLM movement condmened the police shootings, for example.

Black Lives Matter Leaders Condemn Police Shootings In Dallas (https://www.buzzfeed.com/rosebuchanan/black-lives-matter-leaders-condemn-violence-in-dallas?utm_term=.rrrr97KqP#.sywm2qX7E)

So when BLM leaders are publicly condemning these kinds of shootings, how can you say the entire BLM movement is responsible? Isn't responsibility supposed to be assigned individually?


As to your McVeigh comment, when was the last time you saw someone in the Patriot Movement (I admit I have never heard of it) chanting in America's cities "FEDS in a blanket, FRY 'em like bacon", or "What do we want? DEAD FEDS! When do we want it? NOW"?

By "patriot movement", I just mean a generic reference to the network of right-wing anti-government groups throughout the US. And according the FBI and other federal agencies, these groups routinely make hateful comments about federal agents and law enforcement in general. When the Bundys occupied that federal building in Oregon, they were saying all sorts of belligerent, hateful things about the federal government. Does that mean every individual in America who is associated with these movements or supportive of them is responsible for everything that emerges in the context of those movements?

[Ethereal]

You have completely discounted the agitation that the President, Sharpton, and BLM have engaged in for years. It is almost as if history, for you, started just last week.

You have shown your ability to reason. We do not always agree. That is okay. At least clearly reason, if not for us do it for yourself, why you are supporting murdering cops. Despite your protests that is what you are doing.

I don't support murdering anyone.

I just support efforts to oppose police brutality and government oppression.

And to the extent BLM opposes that, I support them.

It's not anymore complicated than that.

[Tahuyaman]

Yea, but the people who were actually there during WWII probably know more about their own ROEs than you do. I know it's hard for you to admit that I know more about what happened in Iraq post-2003 than you do, but it's the truth. I served with hundreds of Marines who deployed to Iraq post-2003, and I did a deployment there myself in 2007 during the surge. I know a lot more about what the ROEs were than someone who didn't spend a single day in Iraq during the time in question.


Why can't you admit that you often exaggerate and or misrepresent the facts? I don't know if that misrepresentation is intentional or not, but if it is, that's a different issue.

[del]

Why can't you admit that you often exaggerate and or misrepresent the facts? I don't know if that misrepresentation is intentional or not, but if it is, that's a different issue.

why can't you admit you don't know what the fuck you're talking about?

[Ethereal]

In my opinion, the better way to fight prohibition is through the Constitution's Article V process. This is why we have Federalism. The Federal government has no business, Constitutionally, in determining what substances citizens may put on or in their bodies.

I wouldn't discount using that method, but I think the easiest way is to simply pursue the Jeffersonian remedy of state and local nullification. It's already happening in some states like Colorado and Washington.

[Ethereal]

I sometimes wonder if the agenda behind the War on Drugs is calculated to keep young black males off the unemployment roles and not turning their attention to their lack of opportunities in a political fashion?

The agenda is to control the population and to create yet another pretext for extorting people out of their property. It's just a big government racket meant to suffocate liberty.

[Ethereal]

BLM consists of the sheep and the leaders. I have written this before. Perhaps you missed it. The leaders involve themselves in agitation and propaganda. They give patsies the inspiration to murder police officers. This is who you have aligned with.

You have made your bed. Publicly. Openly. Without shame.

Except the BLM leadership, to an extent they have one, have publicly condemned these murders.

[Ethereal]

If police are wrongly killing citizens we should be seeing plenty of trials.

You're right. We should be seeing more trials of police for wrongful shootings. But they are often protected by sympathetic prosecutors who are basically part of the broader law enforcement community that refuses to admit they are doing anything wrong. Nobody should expect law enforcement to police itself at this point.


Every police-involved shooting is investigated, many by Obama's (in)Justice Department. How many instances have they investigated that have determined that officers should stand trial? One? Two?

You are wrong but you are also blind.

Oh, wow. Police investigate themselves and say they did nothing wrong. Very compelling stuff.

[Ethereal]

Do you have a learning disability?

Nope, sure don't.

[Ethereal]

They have already been posted and discussed. So I must ask again, do you have a learning disability?

I must have missed them then.

[Ethereal]

Like many people who wander close to the truth on occasion you pick up the closest shiny object. You think you have accomplished something.

Limited government Conservatives (note it is not the government's size, it is its scope) have a "soft spot" for the Constitution. The primary purpose of the Federal government is to protect its citizens from external and internal threats. The federal government, specifically, one evil man at the top, Barack Hussein O, has been the principal cheerleader for the war against the police. He deserves to be hanged for his crimes. He is the source of government oppression. He sides with Black Lives Matter, a racist, divisive, violent, anti-cop movement consisting of mostly useful idiots, and agitators. The leadership deserves to be hanged for their crimes. He sides with one of the worst race-pimps alive, Al Sharpton. If there is enough rope left, hang him too.

You are one of the useful idiots. You shouldn't be. You linger near the truth without ever accepting it. That is a shame.

Your comment shows I am right. You have little fear of getting close to the truth. But you prefer the shiny object.

Maybe the truth frightens you.

There was nothing to respond to in your post. You just insulted me, asserted your opinion as fact, and talked about who you want to hang.

[Ethereal]

If you have no solution other than something that will not happen any time soon, just say so.

I don't really care if it will happen "soon" because it's the best solution and I will keep saying that until the solution is implemented. Any "solution" that doesn't entail criminal justice reform is not really a solution and will not significantly effect the situation.

[MisterVeritis]

BLM is a large group of people, all of whom possess individual beliefs and motivations. I doubt there is a large percentage of them who thinks murdering police officers is okay. Many of the most popular figures in the BLM movement condemned the police shootings, for example.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8

Actions versus words.

What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now

[Ethereal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj4ARsxrZh8

Actions versus words.

What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now

So those hundred or so people represent the entire BLM movement? What about the people associated with BLM who condemn the murder of police? They don't count?

[Ethereal]

One of the benefits of repealing the war on drugs would be less dead police officers. Many police die while serving high-risk drug warrants or otherwise trying to enforce unconstitutional drug laws. They shouldn't have to die enforcing bad, unethical policies. It's a waste of life.

[MisterVeritis]

So when BLM leaders are publicly condemning these kinds of shootings, how can you say the entire BLM movement is responsible? Isn't responsibility supposed to be assigned individually?
BLM consists of sheep, or if you prefer, useful idiots. They march and do as they are told. It also contains the leaders who are agitators and propagandists. They began with a lie following the Martin-Zimmerman verdict. They continue the lie of "Hands up! Don't shoot!" They have inspired patsies to murder cops in the same way ISIS inspires lone wolf attacks.

If BLM is reforming they need to renounce all of their earlier lies.

[Ethereal]

BLM consists of sheep, or if you prefer, useful idiots. They march and do as they are told. It also contains the leaders who are agitators and propagandists. They began with a lie following the Martin-Zimmerman verdict. They continue the lie of "Hands up! Don't shoot!" They have inspired patsies to murder cops in the same way ISIS inspires lone wolf attacks.

If BLM is reforming they need to renounce all of their earlier lies.

I've criticized BLM before. I don't think they're perfect by any means. But they also make some good points that deserve to be taken seriously. One thing where I disagree with them, though, is their fixation on black people being shot and oppressed by police. Granted, that's a problem, but it's not limited to black people. Plenty of white people get needlessly shot and imprisoned by law enforcement, too. This is a class issue, not a race issue. Poorer people are squashed beneath the boot of the police state at the behest of the rich and powerful. That's what this is really about.

[MisterVeritis]

By "patriot movement", I just mean a generic reference to the network of right-wing anti-government groups throughout the US. And according the FBI and other federal agencies, these groups routinely make hateful comments about federal agents and law enforcement in general. When the Bundys occupied that federal building in Oregon, they were saying all sorts of belligerent, hateful things about the federal government. Does that mean every individual in America who is associated with these movements or supportive of them is responsible for everything that emerges in the context of those movements?
Patriots have been killed by government agents, not the other way around.

We have a first amendment right to say hateful things about federal agencies. We do not have a right to murder police officers or other federal agents. We can defend ourselves. How many federal agents have been murdered by patriots?

[MisterVeritis]

I've criticized BLM before. I don't think they're perfect by any means. But they also make some good points that deserve to be taken seriously. One thing where I disagree with them, though, is their fixation on black people being shot and oppressed by police. Granted, that's a problem, but it's not limited to black people. Plenty of white people get needlessly shot and imprisoned by law enforcement, too. This is a class issue, not a race issue. Poorer people are squashed beneath the boot of the police state at the behest of the rich and powerful. That's what this is really about.
The black lives matter story is that cops are murdering blacks at epidemic levels. They imply that cops who shoot black men are getting away with it. Given that the Justice Department has investigated nearly every shooting and has charged only once or twice tells me that BLM is lying.

There is a recent study that says whites are shot more readily than blacks. Blacks are stopped (and harassed?) more frequently than whites. Would you like to swap? BLM did not make these good points.

Law enforcement does not imprison anyone. The courts do that after the accused are found guilty and sentenced.

Poor people are not squashed by a police state by rich people. That is Marxist clap-trap.

[MisterVeritis]

I wouldn't discount using that method, but I think the easiest way is to simply pursue the Jeffersonian remedy of state and local nullification. It's already happening in some states like Colorado and Washington.
That is not effective. It does not change the underlying laws. Nor does it clarify who has the authority to act. Only a Constitutional Amendment can do that (or the supremes who can be counted on to increase federal power and control).

[MisterVeritis]

The leaders involve themselves in agitation and propaganda. They give patsies the inspiration to murder police officers. This is who you have aligned with.

Except the BLM leadership, to an extent they have one, have publicly condemned these murders.
One condemnation after the fact is not sufficient. The BLM leaders have been agitating for cop killing for several years. But then they do receive praise from Obama who has his own anti-cop rhetoric.

[Tahuyaman]

I don't really care if it will happen "soon" because it's the best solution and I will keep saying that until the solution is implemented. Any "solution" that doesn't entail criminal justice reform is not really a solution and will not significantly effect the situation.


If you can't think of a solution other than something you know is not going to happen, you have no solution.

[Tahuyaman]

BLM is a large group of people, all of whom possess individual beliefs and motivations. I doubt there is a large percentage of them who thinks murdering police officers is okay...

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

[Mac-7]

One of the benefits of repealing the war on drugs would be less dead police officers. Many police die while serving high-risk drug warrants or otherwise trying to enforce unconstitutional drug laws. They shouldn't have to die enforcing bad, unethical policies. It's a waste of life.

Drugs are illegal for a reason.

ethereal thinks its because some people just dont want to let other people have fun.

But all the drugs that are illegal now were once legal and freely available.

But society saw the harm those drugs do and outlawed them

[Dr. Who]

The black lives matter story is that cops are murdering blacks at epidemic levels. They imply that cops who shoot black men are getting away with it. Given that the Justice Department has investigated nearly every shooting and has charged only once or twice tells me that BLM is lying.

There is a recent study that says whites are shot more readily than blacks. Blacks are stopped (and harassed?) more frequently than whites. Would you like to swap? BLM did not make these good points.

Law enforcement does not imprison anyone. The courts do that after the accused are found guilty and sentenced.

Poor people are not squashed by a police state by rich people. That is Marxist clap-trap.

Having read the legal standard for judging officers in these situations, it would seem a bit overly subjective. It translates to "I was scared" absent any objective reason and I'm not sure that is an appropriate standard, since the general population does not enjoy that latitude. One would think that the objective standard for persons trained in policing would be higher than for untrained citizens. While I don't think that the majority of police officers are prone to panic, I think that the legal standard for lethal force excuses the most anxiety prone officers. That not only results in senseless deaths and public scrutiny, but diminishes respect for the police forces in general.

For instance, if a citizen had the option of getting in a car and driving away in the face of an unarmed but large person running toward them in a threatening manner who was a considerable distance away, and chose to confront and shoot that individual, rather than easily escaping a violent confrontation, they would be convicted of manslaughter. The law with respect for citizens is very strict. How is the standard lower for police officers in the same situation? I think it is the disparity between the law for everyone else and the law as it applies to police actions that is adding to the anti-police rhetoric. You can convene a grand jury regarding a questionable police action, but they have to judge it based on the law as it applies to the police. Invariably the grand jury will support the police action because the law is not equal and does not require objective evidence. No small wonder that people who are fairly familiar with the penalties of criminal law and who are not aware of the disparity in the onus on police officers will see the verdicts as self-serving and biased toward the police.

[Ethereal]

Drugs are illegal for a reason.

The only "reason" drugs are illegal is because unethical, ignorant politicians made them illegal.


ethereal thinks its because some people just dont want to let other people have fun.

That's probably the only "reason" why you think drug prohibition is good, because you hate people who use certain drugs and want to stick it to them.


But all the drugs that are illegal now were once legal and freely available.

But society saw the harm those drugs do and outlawed them

Prohibition is a demonstrable failure on almost every level. It doesn't stop drugs from harming people; it wastes massive amounts of resources; it infringes on the liberties of the individual; and it empowers big government.

Whatever you are, you're no conservative, Mac. You love big, unconstitutional government as much as any progressive.

[OGIS]

Drugs are illegal for a reason.

ethereal thinks its because some people just dont want to let other people have fun.

But all the drugs that are illegal now were once legal and freely available.

But society saw the harm those drugs do and outlawed them

Please get educated.


Why is Marijuana Illegal?

http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/

[MisterVeritis]

Having read the legal standard for judging officers in these situations, it would seem a bit overly subjective. It translates to "I was scared" absent any objective reason and I'm not sure that is an appropriate standard, since the general population does not enjoy that latitude. One would think that the objective standard for persons trained in policing would be higher than for untrained citizens. While I don't think that the majority of police officers are prone to panic, I think that the legal standard for lethal force excuses the most anxiety prone officers. That not only results in senseless deaths and public scrutiny, but diminishes respect for the police forces in general.

For instance, if a citizen had the option of getting in a car and driving away in the face of an unarmed but large person running toward them in a threatening manner who was a considerable distance away, and chose to confront and shoot that individual, rather than easily escaping a violent confrontation, they would be convicted of manslaughter. The law with respect for citizens is very strict. How is the standard lower for police officers in the same situation? I think it is the disparity between the law for everyone else and the law as it applies to police actions that is adding to the anti-police rhetoric. You can convene a grand jury regarding a questionable police action, but they have to judge it based on the law as it applies to the police. Invariably the grand jury will support the police action because the law is not equal and does not require objective evidence. No small wonder that people who are fairly familiar with the penalties of criminal law and who are not aware of the disparity in the onus on police officers will see the verdicts as self-serving and biased toward the police.
I am sure you actually believe that Obama's Justice Department has cleared all of those guilty police officers.

You are a liberal piece of work.

[Dr. Who]

I am sure you actually believe that Obama's Justice Department has cleared all of those guilty police officers.

You are a liberal piece of work.
There were prior cases that were not investigated by the feds - in fact most are not.

[MisterVeritis]

There were prior cases that were not investigated by the feds - in fact most are not.
And yet everyone over the last seven years that the Justice Department investigated resulted in...what, Who?

[Dr. Who]

And yet everyone over the last seven years that the Justice Department investigated resulted in...what, Who?
They are also bound to apply the same legal standard as a court of law. So the officer would have to do something fairly egregious, like shoot someone in the back, to violate the standard for law enforcement.

This is the federal standard:
§ 1047.7 Use of deadly force.
(a) Deadly force means that force which a reasonable person would consider likely to cause death or serious bodily harm. Its use may be justified only under conditions of extreme necessity, when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed. A protective force officer is authorized to use deadly force only when one or more of the following circumstances exists:
(1) Self-Defense. When deadly force reasonably appears to be necessary to protect a protective force officer who reasonably believes himself or herself to be in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm.
(2) Serious offenses against persons. When deadly force reasonably appears to be necessary to prevent the commission of a serious offense against a person(s) in circumstances presenting an imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm (e.g. sabotage of an occupied facility by explosives).
(3) Nuclear weapons or nuclear explosive devices. When deadly force reasonably appears to be necessary to prevent the theft, sabotage, or unauthorized control of a nuclear weapon or nuclear explosive device.
(4) Special nuclear material. When deadly force reasonably appears to be necessary to prevent the theft, sabotage, or unauthorized control of special nuclear material from an area of a fixed site or from a shipment where Category II or greater quantities are known or reasonably believed to be present.
(5) Apprehension. When deadly force reasonably appears to be necessary to apprehend or prevent the escape of a person reasonably believed to: (i) have committed an offense of the nature specified in paragraphs (a)(1) through (a)(4) 1 of this section; or (ii) be escaping by use of a weapon or explosive or who otherwise indicates that he or she poses a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm to the protective force officer or others unless apprehended without delay.
1 These offenses are considered by the Department of Energy to pose a significant threat of death or serious bodily harm.

(b) Additional Considerations Involving Firearms. If it becomes necessary to use a firearm, the following precautions shall be observed:
(1) A warning, e.g. an order to halt, shall be given, if feasible, before a shot is fired.


When an incident occurs where the officers actions are called into question, the legal standard is to test the reasonableness of the officer's actions, however, because of the unique law enforcement context, special rules have developed for law enforcement use of force that are substantially different from traditional tort and criminal law principles. The law of force is generally deferential to the perceptions and beliefs of the officer at the scene and that may be entirely subjective. That is not to suggest that the officer(s) in question are simply resorting to deadly force out of complete disregard for human life, but because of the variable training, experience and varying emotional stability of any given officers in specific situations, outcomes may vary.

Several months ago I read a news story of two unarmed security guards that managed to take down a machete-wielding maniac determined to kill a third party in a shopping mall. The perpetrator had already struck the victim several times. The security guards took him down without sustaining any bodily injuries to themselves and held him for the police. I contrast this with situations where elderly people or mentally ill people have been shot to death by police for presenting a fork as a weapon, or a pen knife or a tall obese unarmed person is seen as a potential threat to life and limb when the officer has the means of escape and does not even wait for back-up before involving himself in a confrontation. These are the things that make people get angry. I don't think people want these officers to go to jail, they simply want them off the force.