View Full Version : tPF Sarah Silvermann alienating Bernie supporters
Private Pickle
07-26-2016, 12:28 PM
Gotta love celebrities and their political acumen. I'm sure the last thing Hillary wanted was for Sarah to come out and call the voters she is trying to win over "ridiculous".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjGEHIkZ7ss
Common Sense
07-26-2016, 12:29 PM
I think she said they were "being ridiculous". As they sort of are.
Cigar
07-26-2016, 12:31 PM
Those two words got everyone in line ...
Private Pickle
07-26-2016, 12:33 PM
I think she said they were "being ridiculous". As they sort of are.
I'm sure that approach will win a lot of votes. I especially liked the part where she chanted "unity" right before she said what she said...
Green Arrow
07-26-2016, 12:35 PM
I think she said they were "being ridiculous". As they sort of are.
Yes, it's completely ridiculous to stand on principle and refuse to be moved by a career politician without serious concessions.
Common Sense
07-26-2016, 12:46 PM
Yes, it's completely ridiculous to stand on principle and refuse to be moved by a career politician without serious concessions.
No, it's ridiculous to not be realistic enough to see that Bernie didn't win and that pouting about it will only help Donald Trump and not help their progressive cause. Clinton and Sanders have far more in common than they do with Trump. As Bernie said, the fight isn't over, but it's time to support Clinton. Even if it's only to stop Trump.
nic34
07-26-2016, 12:48 PM
Gotta love celebrities and their political acumen. I'm sure the last thing Hillary wanted was for Sarah to come out and call the voters she is trying to win over "ridiculous".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjGEHIkZ7ss
Welllllllll, they actually are being "ridiculous". And I am a Bernie supporter.
Private Pickle
07-26-2016, 12:49 PM
Welllllllll, they actually are being "ridiculous". And I am a Bernie supporter.
Like I said...I'm sure that approach will win a lot of votes...
Cigar
07-26-2016, 12:51 PM
Like I said...I'm sure that approach will win a lot of votes...
I'm sure Donald Trumps approach will win a lot of votes also ...
Common Sense
07-26-2016, 12:51 PM
She wasn't labeling Bernie supporters. She was criticizing those who say Bernie or Bust.
Private Pickle
07-26-2016, 12:52 PM
I'm sure Donald Trumps approach will win a lot of votes also ...
A lot of the Bernie votes. ;)
Private Pickle
07-26-2016, 12:52 PM
She wasn't labeling Bernie supporters. She was criticizing those who say Bernie or Bust.
They are one in the same.
Common Sense
07-26-2016, 12:55 PM
They are one in the same.
No they're not. Many Bernie supporters realize that Bernie lost and the sensible thing to do is to help defeat Trump.
Green Arrow
07-26-2016, 12:56 PM
No, it's ridiculous to not be realistic enough to see that Bernie didn't win and that pouting about it will only help Donald Trump and not help their progressive cause. Clinton and Sanders have far more in common than they do with Trump. As Bernie said, the fight isn't over, but it's time to support Clinton. Even if it's only to stop Trump.
You can't help Donald Trump by not voting for Clinton. The vast majority of states are already going for Hillary and Trump regardless purely based on their solid red/blue state status. It might marginally affect the result in the swing states, but again, it's Hillary's responsibility (and Trump's) to earn the votes she needs to win.
Not one single person in this country is obligated to vote for either candidate. They have to earn the votes they need. Right now, Hillary and the DNC establishment are acting like they are entitled to the votes. If that's how they want to be, fine, but they won't like the result.
Common Sense
07-26-2016, 12:59 PM
You can't help Donald Trump by not voting for Clinton. The vast majority of states are already going for Hillary and Trump regardless purely based on their solid red/blue state status. It might marginally affect the result in the swing states, but again, it's Hillary's responsibility (and Trump's) to earn the votes she needs to win.
Not one single person in this country is obligated to vote for either candidate. They have to earn the votes they need. Right now, Hillary and the DNC establishment are acting like they are entitled to the votes. If that's how they want to be, fine, but they won't like the result.
Yes you can help Trump by not voting for the Democrat nominee.
No one says they are obligated, but if they stay home and Trump wins, they have helped that happen. I wonder how the progressive cause will flourish under Trump?
It's nonsensical. It amounts to a temper tantrum.
Green Arrow
07-26-2016, 01:10 PM
Yes you can help Trump by not voting for the Democrat nominee.
How? Not even counting swing states, purely counting states that are guaranteed to go Trump or Clinton before a single vote is cast, Hillary has 217 of the 270 electoral votes she needs to win, and Trump has 191. That's again counting all but the current swing states: Nevada, Colorado, Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida, a total of 130 remaining electoral votes.
Let's say that of those, Trump gets North Carolina, Florida, Virginia, and North Carolina. Clinton gets Nevada, Colorado, Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. She wins the election with 286 electoral votes to Trump's 252. If we also give Clinton Florida, for it's high Hispanic population, she wins 315-223, which in Electoral College results is considered a landslide (even if the popular vote is a nail-biter).
All she needs to win any of those swing states is 50.1% of the vote.
No one says they are obligated, but if they stay home and Trump wins, they have helped that happen. I wonder how the progressive cause will flourish under Trump?
It's nonsensical. It amounts to a temper tantrum.
The popular vote doesn't elect presidents in the United States, the electoral college does. A candidate can win the electoral college (and thus the presidency) with only 20% of the popular vote.
To answer your question, the progressive cause might actually be better off under Trump.
The Xl
07-26-2016, 01:10 PM
There isn't much political or moral incentive for Bernie supporters to support Hillary.
zelmo1234
07-26-2016, 01:11 PM
No, it's ridiculous to not be realistic enough to see that Bernie didn't win and that pouting about it will only help Donald Trump and not help their progressive cause. Clinton and Sanders have far more in common than they do with Trump. As Bernie said, the fight isn't over, but it's time to support Clinton. Even if it's only to stop Trump.
He didn't win because they stacked the deck against him. In a fair fight, Hillary is not the nominee. They took this from him.
I don't get why people think that Bernie supporters should just run to Hillary.
zelmo1234
07-26-2016, 01:12 PM
There isn't much political or moral incentive for Bernie supporters to support Hillary.
Actually on the Economy and War, they are closer to Trump than Hillary.
Standing Wolf
07-26-2016, 01:14 PM
You can't help Donald Trump by not voting for Clinton. The vast majority of states are already going for Hillary and Trump regardless purely based on their solid red/blue state status. It might marginally affect the result in the swing states, but again, it's Hillary's responsibility (and Trump's) to earn the votes she needs to win.
I don't actually believe this is going to happen, but IF enough pouty Sanderistas stayed home or voted for a third party candidate, yes - Trump could win. Saying it wouldn't be their fault reminds me of those folks who claim that a bad umpire's call never decides the outcome of a ballgame. Of course it can.
The Xl
07-26-2016, 01:15 PM
Actually on the Economy and War, they are closer to Trump than Hillary.
Absolutely. Trump and Sanders are reasonably close on trade and foreign policy. He's also probably closer to Trump on the second amendment as well. Again, outside of the mindless and unsubstantiated bigot propaganda, there isn't much of a reason for Bernie supporters to support Hillary.
Green Arrow
07-26-2016, 01:15 PM
Actually on the Economy and War, they are closer to Trump than Hillary.
I doubt it. And the only way they'd be closer to Trump on war is if Trump were a pacifist. Considering he supported the Iraq War, I doubt that one, too.
Private Pickle
07-26-2016, 01:18 PM
No they're not. Many Bernie supporters realize that Bernie lost and the sensible thing to do is to help defeat Trump.
Then they are Hillary supporters aren't they?
Green Arrow
07-26-2016, 01:18 PM
I don't actually believe this is going to happen, but IF enough pouty Sanderistas stayed home or voted for a third party candidate, yes - Trump could win. Saying it wouldn't be their fault reminds me of those folks who claim that a bad umpire's call never decides the outcome of a ballgame. Of course it can.
Again, it's the responsibility of the candidates to earn the votes they need to win. Nobody is obligated to vote for a candidate that they don't think would make a good president. I'm not obligated to vote for Hillary or Trump, I believe they are both morally, ethically, and ideologically unfit for the office. Unless either of them can convince me otherwise and earn my vote, neither of them will get it.
It also doesn't matter, because Tennessee's 13 electoral votes are already Trump's.
Common Sense
07-26-2016, 01:18 PM
How? Not even counting swing states, purely counting states that are guaranteed to go Trump or Clinton before a single vote is cast, Hillary has 217 of the 270 electoral votes she needs to win, and Trump has 191. That's again counting all but the current swing states: Nevada, Colorado, Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida, a total of 130 remaining electoral votes.
Let's say that of those, Trump gets North Carolina, Florida, Virginia, and North Carolina. Clinton gets Nevada, Colorado, Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. She wins the election with 286 electoral votes to Trump's 252. If we also give Clinton Florida, for it's high Hispanic population, she wins 315-223, which in Electoral College results is considered a landslide (even if the popular vote is a nail-biter).
All she needs to win any of those swing states is 50.1% of the vote.
The popular vote doesn't elect presidents in the United States, the electoral college does. A candidate can win the electoral college (and thus the presidency) with only 20% of the popular vote.
To answer your question, the progressive cause might actually be better off under Trump.
There is a real possibility that in swing states that Bernie or Bust voters absence could indeed swing the election.
How could a Trump presidency help progressives? I guess the pushback against them could help garner a bigger grassroots movement.
It's actually something I was talking about with a friend recently, the silver lining of a Trump presidency. Trump could be so bad that he actually helps people unite against him.
Private Pickle
07-26-2016, 01:25 PM
I doubt it. And the only way they'd be closer to Trump on war is if Trump were a pacifist. Considering he supported the Iraq War, I doubt that one, too.
Meanwhile Hillary and Obama have successfully destabilized 4 countries in their time...
Green Arrow
07-26-2016, 01:27 PM
There is a real possibility that in swing states that Bernie or Bust voters absence could indeed swing the election.
They could, sure. It should be a priority, then, for Hillary to earn their votes. It really wouldn't be hard. Even with the loss of the VP slot to a non-progressive, she could do a lot to assuage progressive fears by releasing the transcripts of her Wall Street speeches and promise, in writing, to nominate actual progressives to cabinet positions if elected. She could also turn down donations from the super wealthy and corporations, or at least limit those donations to the average donations of small, individual donors (which, for Bernie, was $27).
I loathe Hillary, and those actions would do a lot to persuade even me to possibly vote for her.
How could a Trump presidency help progressives? I guess the pushback against them could help garner a bigger grassroots movement.
It's actually something I was talking about with a friend recently, the silver lining of a Trump presidency. Trump could be so bad that he actually helps people unite against him.
That too, but I was more thinking along different lines. Hillary as president would be similar to Obama as president, she would make progressives look bad by claiming to be a progressive and then acting like a Republican in a blue jersey rather than a red one. She would also encourage people on the verge of progressive and moderate to sit back and not do anything, rather than mobilizing to push for more progressive choices in 2020 or 2024. Trump as president, on the other hand, would basically serve as a rallying cry for progressives and those allied with progressives. And Hillary losing to a terrible candidate like Trump would give progressives an "I told you so" card to use in the next Democratic nomination to push for an actual progressive as the nominee. Such as...Elizabeth Warren.
Also, Trump as president means we can try for a more progressive nominee in just four years, whereas Hillary as president means we have to languish under yet another four-to-eight of Republican-lite rule.
Green Arrow
07-26-2016, 01:27 PM
Meanwhile Hillary and Obama have successfully destabilized 4 countries in their time...
And I've criticized both for it endlessly and refuse to vote for Hillary.
Your point is?
Private Pickle
07-26-2016, 01:30 PM
And I've criticized both for it endlessly and refuse to vote for Hillary.
Your point is?
My point is if someone is voting for Hillary they are supporting Hillary...
Green Arrow
07-26-2016, 01:36 PM
My point is if someone is voting for Hillary they are supporting Hillary...
Naturally.
Private Pickle
07-26-2016, 01:51 PM
Naturally.
Hence; calling Bernie supporters "ridiculous" will not help Hillary win their votes.
Actually on the Economy and War, they are closer to Trump than Hillary.
:rofl:
My point is if someone is voting for Hillary they are supporting Hillary...
that's fucking brilliant
decedent
07-26-2016, 04:16 PM
Gotta love celebrities and their political acumen. I'm sure the last thing Hillary wanted was for Sarah to come out and call the voters she is trying to win over "ridiculous".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjGEHIkZ7ss
"Thank God they can fix this in post."
That made me snort.
Sarah who?
Who the hell ever told her that she was funny or intelligent?
Sarah who?
Who the hell ever told her that she was funny or intelligent?
the same one who told you the same thing
Adelaide
07-26-2016, 04:21 PM
No, it's ridiculous to not be realistic enough to see that Bernie didn't win and that pouting about it will only help Donald Trump and not help their progressive cause. Clinton and Sanders have far more in common than they do with Trump. As Bernie said, the fight isn't over, but it's time to support Clinton. Even if it's only to stop Trump.
Pouting? They were practically having mental breakdowns. So many tears.
He lost a primary election - not his life.
Good-freaking-grief...
Private Pickle
07-26-2016, 04:23 PM
that's fucking brilliant
It takes a village.
Hal Jordan
07-26-2016, 04:23 PM
Naturally.
Who?
It takes a village.
or an idiot
maineman
07-26-2016, 04:28 PM
Anyone who considers themselves to be progressive in America is being ridiculous if they do not now vote for Hillary. If for no other reason than SCOTUS. Does anyone believe that the justices that a President Trump will be prompted to nominate by his handlers will be more inclined to rule in favor of progressive legislation if challenged than those nominated by President Hillary?
the same one who told you the same thing
Would you like some Preparation H for that?
Private Pickle
07-26-2016, 04:30 PM
Sarah who?
Who the hell ever told her that she was funny or intelligent?
Hillary Clinton...when she let her speak at the DNC...
Peter1469
07-26-2016, 04:36 PM
Progressives claimed to have integrity. Voting for Hillary would destroy that claim.
Anyone who considers themselves to be progressive in America is being ridiculous if they do not now vote for Hillary. If for no other reason than SCOTUS. Does anyone believe that the justices that a President Trump will be prompted to nominate by his handlers will be more inclined to rule in favor of progressive legislation if challenged than those nominated by President Hillary?
Actually, yes.
Hillery's "progressivism" is entirely dependent on which corporate c0ck she happens to be sucking. I can make the case for Trump on several possible lines of reasoning, but just the nationwide legalization of marijuana will be a case in point. Trump's core belief, I think, is that drug enforcement is not a national issue, and that the states should handle it. His recent rhetoric is, I think, simply that. Hillery, OTOH, will do whatever is in the interests of Big Pharma, Big Booze, and Big Tobacco (depending on their contributions, of course).
And as a pragmatic progressive, I'm just fine with a wall along the southern border and extra attention paid to Muslims.
Trump 2016.
Ethereal
07-26-2016, 04:41 PM
Anyone who considers themselves to be progressive in America is being ridiculous if they do not now vote for Hillary.
Voting for Hillary Clinton is probably the most ridiculous thing a self-identified progressive could do.
Progressives claimed to have integrity. Voting for Hillary would destroy that claim.
Agreed.
Private Pickle
07-26-2016, 04:43 PM
or an idiot
Every village has one:
No they're not. Many Bernie supporters realize that Bernie lost and the sensible thing to do is to help defeat Trump.
nic34
07-26-2016, 05:44 PM
He didn't win because they stacked the deck against him. In a fair fight, Hillary is not the nominee. They took this from him.
I don't get why people think that Bernie supporters should just run to Hillary.
Are you math challenged? He didn't get enough votes! Besides, Bernie never ran just to oppose Clinton. He thought he was more able to beat Trump which is, after all like it or not, is what the 2 party system is all about. He also got Clinton to move left on many issues important to him.
So no, I wont help Trumpy one iota by sitting this one out.
Green Arrow
07-26-2016, 09:00 PM
Anyone who considers themselves to be progressive in America is being ridiculous if they do not now vote for Hillary. If for no other reason than SCOTUS. Does anyone believe that the justices that a President Trump will be prompted to nominate by his handlers will be more inclined to rule in favor of progressive legislation if challenged than those nominated by President Hillary?
My choice to vote for Jill Stein does nothing to help Trump win Tennessee, and if I compromised my principles and voted for Hillary, she would still not win Tennessee. My choice makes zero difference in the outcome of the election.
nic34
07-27-2016, 08:43 AM
My choice to vote for Jill Stein does nothing to help Trump win Tennessee, and if I compromised my principles and voted for Hillary, she would still not win Tennessee. My choice makes zero difference in the outcome of the election.
Of course he is talking about those in swing states like here in AZ.
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