Clinton: Trump's Comments on Gen. Allen 'Prove' He Should Not Be Commander-in-Chief

[TrueBlue]

Clinton: Trump's Comments on Gen. Allen 'Prove' He Should Not Be Commander-in-Chief

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clinton-trumps-comments-gen-allen-prove-commander-chief/story?id=41020306

"Hillary Clinton (http://abcnews.go.com/topics/news/whitehouse/hillary-clinton.htm) on Saturday ripped into Donald Trump (http://abcnews.go.com/topics/news/donald-trump.htm) for his critique of retired four-star Gen. John Allen (http://abcnews.go.com/topics/news/us/general-john-allen.htm), saying it's unpresidential to "insult and deride our generals."

"Just yesterday, he went after retired Gen. John Allen who commanded our troops in Afghanistan. General Allen is a distinguished Marine, a hero and a patriot," the Democratic nominee said during a stop on her bus tour at a manufacturing business in Johnstown. "Donald Trump called him a failed general. Why? Because he does not believe Donald Trump should be commander in chief."

"Well I’d say that proves it," she continued. "Our commander in chief shouldn't insult and deride our generals, retired or otherwise. That really should go without saying, but I'm going to respond on behalf of General Allen to those kinds of insults."


=======================================
Thanks to ABC News for this report.

Imho, one who is running for president and who would carry the title of Commander-in-Chief should not be insulting our American generals or other military personnel. It's bad enough that Trump is so cozy with Putin but to go against leading members of the military just because they disagree that he should become president is quite shameful to say nothing about his being disrespectful to the position that they hold. And of course, the rest of the world has already found out about this which does not place Trump in good light at all.

The forum rules will be strictly observed by participants in this thread or non-conforming members will be thread banned.

If You Don't Like What Is Being Discussed In the OP You Can Always Do the Courteous Thing and Just Leave the Thread.

[Tahuyaman]

Democrats are playing this silly childish game of "my General can beat up your General".

Personally, I can't see how any career military professional can support Mrs.Clinton simply based on her past statemts and actions as First Lady which demonstrated her contempt for members of the military.

[Peter1469]

This election is about one thing:

nationalism or the status quo- the drive towards zero borders.

[hanger4]

Clinton: Trump's Comments on Gen. Allen 'Prove' He Should Not Be Commander-in-Chief

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clinton-trumps-comments-gen-allen-prove-commander-chief/story?id=41020306




=======================================
Thanks to ABC News for this report.

Imho, one who is running for president and who would carry the title of Commander-in-Chief should not be insulting our American generals or other military personnel. It's bad enough that Trump is so cozy with Putin but to go against leading members of the military just because they disagree that he should become president is quite shameful to say nothing about his being disrespectful to the position that they hold. And of course, the rest of the world has already found out about this which does not place Trump in good light at all.

The forum rules will be strictly observed by participants in this thread or non-conforming members will be thread banned.

If You Don't Like What Is Being Discussed In the OP You Can Always Do the Courteous Thing and Just Leave the Thread.

You're kidding right ??

Nevermind I know that you don't know any better.

Why is it OK for Gen Allen to insult a POTUS candidate and the candidate isn't allowed to defend themselve ??

[Oboe]

This election is about one thing:

nationalism or the status quo- the drive towards zero borders.


How anyone could be as stupid as to want that here after seeing the failure that IS the EU, is, well, stupid.

[AZ Jim]

You're kidding right ??

Nevermind I know that you don't know any better.

Why is it OK for Gen Allen to insult a POTUS candidate and the candidate isn't allowed to defend themselve ??The general only pointed out facts. Trump insults himself every time he speaks.

[Peter1469]

The general only pointed out facts. Trump insults himself every time he speaks.

Hillary is no better.

Heck of a choice our two party system left us with.

[AZ Jim]

Hillary is no better.

Heck of a choice our two party system left us with.That is so silly it's not even worth discussion.

[Peter1469]

That is so silly it's not even worth discussion.

Perfect.

Hillary ought to be in jail.

Donald ought to be in an asylum.

[hanger4]

The general only pointed out facts. Trump insults himself every time he speaks.

Gen. John Allen stated assumptions, what he believes Trump might do.

Again; Why is it OK for Gen Allen to insult a POTUS candidate and the candidate isn't allowed to defend themselve ??

[hanger4]

That is so silly it's not even worth discussion.

That's right AZ Jim, run from Hillary's failings while attempting to point out Trumps.

[maineman]

How can any of the neocon hawks here be happy with a clown who says he knows more about ISIS than our generals do?

[Ethereal]

Did this general succeed in Afghanistan? No? Then Trump is merely stating a fact.

But if Trump said "two plus two equals four", some people would still find a way to disagree with him.

[maineman]

Did this general succeed in Afghanistan?

what would cause you to say otherwise?

[Bethere]

This election is about one thing:

nationalism or the status quo- the drive towards zero borders.

15506

[Ethereal]

what would cause you to say otherwise?

Afghanistan is a failed state run amok with anti-western militants. And it will stay that way unless the civilian and military leadership radically change their objectives and their strategies for achieving them.

[zelmo1234]

How can any of the neocon hawks here be happy with a clown who says he knows more about ISIS than our generals do?

I think that the left would have a argument here, But they supported Obama when he went against the advice of the Generals, and that is the very reason that ISIS exists in the first place.

So it is kind of Hypocritical for them to try and make that argument.

[maineman]

Afghanistan is a failed state run amok with anti-western militants. And it will stay that way unless the civilian and military leadership radically change their objectives and their strategies for achieving them.

Did he fail at the objectives that were set before him? I won't argue with you that the objectives are unrealistic and that we should not have made the same mistake that western powers have always made before us in thinking we could somehow "change" Afghanistan....but General Allen certainly did his job as well as could possibly be expected. The POLICY was a failure, not the performance of the general.

[Ethereal]

Did he fail at the objectives that were set before him? I won't argue with you that the objectives are unrealistic and that we should not have made the same mistake that western powers have always made before us in thinking we could somehow "change" Afghanistan....but General Allen certainly did his job as well as could possibly be expected. The POLICY was a failure, not the performance of the general.

I'm sure he was competent at implementing the strategy, but as a high-level general, he is also responsible for crafting the strategy.

[maineman]

I'm sure he was competent at implementing the strategy, but as a high-level general, he is also responsible for crafting the strategy.

perhaps. perhaps not. He was not the first general in that job. He took over late in the game and you have no idea what policy improvements or suggestions he may or may not have made that were or were not implemented. Ergo.... to say the general did not succeed - in absence of that data - is partisan hackery.

and Trump is certainly not "stating a fact".

[Archer0915]

The general only pointed out facts. Trump insults himself every time he speaks.

And how good has the current admin been to General officers? What have they asked them to do? What scenarios have cost many of them?

How many ranking officers has Obama purged from the ranks?

[Archer0915]

Obama is great for the military and Hillary will follow:

· General John R. Allen-U.S. Marines Commander International Security Assistance Force [ISAF] (Nov 2012)
· Major General Ralph Baker (2 Star)-U.S. Army Commander of the Combined Joint Task Force Horn in Africa (April 2013)
· Major General Michael Carey (2 Star)-U.S. Air Force Commander of the 20th US Air Force in charge of 9,600 people and 450 Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles (Oct 2013)
· Colonel James Christmas-U.S. Marines Commander 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit & Commander Special-Purpose Marine Air-Ground Task Force Crisis Response Unit (July 2013)
· Major General Peter Fuller-U.S. Army Commander in Afghanistan (May 2011)
· Major General Charles M.M. Gurganus-U.S. Marine Corps Regional Commander of SW and I Marine Expeditionary Force in Afghanistan (Oct 2013)
· General Carter F. Ham-U.S. Army African Command (Oct 2013)
· Lieutenant General David H. Huntoon (3 Star), Jr.-U.S. Army 58th Superintendent of the US Military Academy at West Point, NY (2013)
· Command Sergeant Major Don B Jordan-U.S. Army 143rd Expeditionary Sustainment Command (suspended Oct 2013)
· General James Mattis-U.S. Marines Chief of CentCom (May 2013)
· Colonel Daren Margolin-U.S. Marine in charge of Quantico’s Security Battalion (Oct 2013)
· General Stanley McChrystal-U.S. Army Commander Afghanistan (June 2010)
· General David D. McKiernan-U.S. Army Commander Afghanistan (2009)
· General David Petraeus-Director of CIA from September 2011 to November 2012 & U.S. Army Commander International Security Assistance Force [ISAF] and Commander U.S. Forces Afghanistan [USFOR-A] (Nov 2012)
· Brigadier General Bryan Roberts-U.S. Army Commander 2nd Brigade (May 2013)
· Major General Gregg A. Sturdevant-U.S. Marine Corps Director of Strategic Planning and Policy for the U.S. Pacific Command & Commander of Aviation Wing at Camp Bastion, Afghanistan (Sept 2013)
· Colonel Eric Tilley-U.S. Army Commander of Garrison Japan (Nov 2013)
· Brigadier General Bryan Wampler-U.S. Army Commanding General of 143rd Expeditionary Sustainment Command of the 1st Theater Sustainment Command [TSC] (suspended Oct 2013)
Commanding Admirals fired:
· Rear Admiral Charles Gaouette-U.S. Navy Commander John C. Stennis Carrier Strike Group Three (Oct 2012)
· Vice Admiral Tim Giardina(3 Star, demoted to 2 Star)-U.S. Navy Deputy Commander of the US Strategic Command, Commander of the Submarine Group Trident, Submarine Group 9 and Submarine Group 10 (Oct 2013)
Naval Officers fired: (All in 2011)
· Captain David Geisler-U.S. Navy Commander Task Force 53 in Bahrain (Oct 2011)
· Commander Laredo Bell-U.S. Navy Commander Naval Support Activity Saratoga Springs, NY (Aug 2011)
· Lieutenant Commander Kurt Boenisch-Executive Officer amphibious transport dock Ponce (Apr 2011)
· Commander Nathan Borchers-U.S. Navy Commander destroyer Stout (Mar 2011)
· Commander Robert Brown-U.S. Navy Commander Beachmaster Unit 2 Fort Story, VA (Aug 2011)
· Commander Andrew Crowe-Executive Officer Navy Region Center Singapore (Apr 2011)
· Captain Robert Gamberg-Executive Officer carrier Dwight D. Eisenhower (Jun 2011)
· Captain Rex Guinn-U.S. Navy Commander Navy Legal Service office Japan (Feb 2011)
· Commander Kevin Harms- U.S. Navy Commander Strike Fighter Squadron 137 aboard the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln (Mar 2011)
· Lieutenant Commander Martin Holguin-U.S. Navy Commander mine countermeasures Fearless (Oct 2011)
· Captain Owen Honors-U.S. Navy Commander aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (Jan 2011)
· Captain Donald Hornbeck-U.S. Navy Commander Destroyer Squadron 1 San Diego
(Apr 2011)
· Rear Admiral Ron Horton-U.S. Navy Commander Logistics Group, Western Pacific
(Mar 2011)
· Commander Etta Jones-U.S. Navy Commander amphibious transport dock Ponce (Apr 2011)
· Commander Ralph Jones-Executive Officer amphibious transport dock Green Bay (Jul 2011)
· Commander Jonathan Jackson-U.S. Navy Commander Electronic Attack Squadron 134, deployed aboard carrier Carl Vinson (Dec 2011)
· Captain Eric Merrill-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Emory S. Land (Jul 2011)
· Captain William Mosk-U.S. Navy Commander Naval Station Rota, U.S. Navy Commander Naval Activities Spain (Apr 2011)
· Commander Timothy Murphy-U.S. Navy Commander Electronic Attack Squadron 129 at Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, WA (Apr 2011)
· Commander Joseph Nosse-U.S. Navy Commander ballistic-missile submarine Kentucky (Oct 2011)
· Commander Mark Olson-U.S. Navy Commander destroyer The Sullivans FL (Sep 2011)
· Commander John Pethel-Executive Officer amphibious transport dock New York (Dec 2011)
· Commander Karl Pugh-U.S. Navy Commander Electronic Attack Squadron 141 Whidbey Island, WA (Jul 2011)
· Commander Jason Strength-U.S. Navy Commander of Navy Recruiting District Nashville, TN (Jul 2011)
· Captain Greg Thomas-U.S. Navy Commander Norfolk Naval Shipyard (May 2011)
· Commander Mike Varney-U.S. Navy Commander attack submarine Connecticut (Jun 2011)
· Commander Jay Wylie-U.S. Navy Commander destroyer Momsen (Apr 2011)
Naval Officers fired: (All in 2012):
· Commander Alan C. Aber-Executive Officer Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron 71 (July 2012)
· Commander Derick Armstrong- U.S. Navy Commander missile destroyer USS The Sullivans (May 2012)
· Commander Martin Arriola- U.S. Navy Commander destroyer USS Porter (Aug 2012)
· Captain Antonio Cardoso- U.S. Navy Commander Training Support Center San Diego (Sep 2012)
· Captain James CoBell- U.S. Navy Commander Oceana Naval Air Station’s Fleet Readiness Center Mid-Atlantic (Sep 2012)
· Captain Joseph E. Darlak- U.S. Navy Commander frigate USS Vandegrift (Nov 2012)
· Captain Daniel Dusek-U.S. Navy Commander USS Bonhomme
· Commander David Faught-Executive Officer destroyer Chung-Hoon (Sep 2012)
· Commander Franklin Fernandez- U.S. Navy Commander Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 24 (Aug 2012)
· Commander Ray Hartman- U.S. Navy Commander Amphibious dock-landing ship Fort McHenry (Nov 2012)
· Commander Shelly Hakspiel-Executive Officer Navy Drug Screening Lab San Diego (May 2012)
· Commander Jon Haydel- U.S. Navy Commander USS San Diego (Mar 2012)
· Commander Diego Hernandez- U.S. Navy Commander ballistic-missile submarine USS Wyoming (Feb 2012)
· Commander Lee Hoey- U.S. Navy Commander Drug Screening Laboratory, San Diego (May 2012)
· Commander Ivan Jimenez-Executive Officer frigate Vandegrift (Nov 2012)
· Commander Dennis Klein- U.S. Navy Commander submarine USS Columbia (May 2012)
· Captain Chuck Litchfield- U.S. Navy Commander assault ship USS Essex (Jun 2012)
· Captain Marcia Kim Lyons- U.S. Navy Commander Naval Health Clinic New England (Apr 2012)
· Captain Robert Marin- U.S. Navy Commander cruiser USS Cowpens (Feb 2012)
· Captain Sean McDonell- U.S. Navy Commander Seabee reserve unit Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 14 FL (Nov 2012)
· Commander Corrine Parker- U.S. Navy Commander Fleet Logistics Support Squadron 1 (Apr 2012)
· Captain Liza Raimondo- U.S. Navy Commander Naval Health Clinic Patuxent River, MD (Jun 2012)
· Captain Jeffrey Riedel- Program manager, Littoral Combat Ship program (Jan 2012)
· Commander Sara Santoski- U.S. Navy Commander Helicopter Mine Countermeasures Squadron 15 (Sep 2012)
· Commander Kyle G. Strudthoff-Executive Officer Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron 25 (Sep 2012)
· Commander Sheryl Tannahill- U.S. Navy Commander Navy Operational Support Center [NOSC] Nashville, TN (Sep 2012)
· Commander Michael Ward- U.S. Navy Commander submarine USS Pittsburgh (Aug 2012)
· Captain Michael Wiegand- U.S. Navy Commander Southwest Regional Maintenance Center (Nov 2012)
· Captain Ted Williams- U.S. Navy Commander amphibious command ship Mount Whitney (Nov 2012)
· Commander Jeffrey Wissel- U.S. Navy Commander of Fleet Air Reconnaissance Squadron 1 (Feb 2012)
Naval Officers fired: (All in 2013):
· Lieutenant Commander Lauren Allen-Executive Officer submarine Jacksonville (Feb 2013)
· Reserve Captain Jay Bowman-U.S. Navy Commander Navy Operational Support Center [NOSC] Fort Dix, NJ (Mar 2013)
· Captain William Cogar-U.S. Navy Commander hospital ship Mercy’s medical treatment facility (Sept 2013)
· Commander Steve Fuller-Executive Officer frigate Kauffman (Mar 2013)
· Captain Shawn Hendricks-Program Manager for naval enterprise IT networks (June 2013)
· Captain David Hunter-U.S. Navy Commander of Maritime Expeditionary Security Squadron 12 & Coastal Riverine Group 2 (Feb 2013)
· Captain Eric Johnson-U.S. Navy Chief of Military Entrance Processing Command at Great Lakes Naval Training Center, IL (2013)
· Captain Devon Jones-U.S. Navy Commander Naval Air Facility El Centro, CA (July 2013)
· Captain Kevin Knoop-U.S. Navy Commander hospital ship Comfort’s medical treatment facility (Aug 2013)
· Lieutenant Commander Jack O’Neill-U.S. Navy Commander Operational Support Center Rock Island, IL (Mar 2013)
· Commander Allen Maestas-Executive Officer Beachmaster Unit 1 (May 2013)
· Commander Luis Molina-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Pasadena (Jan 2013)
· Commander James Pickens-Executive Officer frigate Gary (Feb 2013)
· Lieutenant Commander Mark Rice-U.S. Navy Commander Mine Countermeasures ship Guardian (Apr 2013)
· Commander Michael Runkle-U.S. Navy Commander of Mobile Diving and Salvage Unit 2 (May 2013)
· Commander Jason Stapleton-Executive Office Patrol Squadron 4 in Hawaii (Mar 2013)
· Commander Nathan Sukols-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Jacksonville (Feb 2013)
· Lieutenant Daniel Tyler-Executive Officer Mine Countermeasures ship Guardian (Apr 2013)
· Commander Edward White-U.S. Navy Commander Strike Fighter Squadron 106 (Aug 2013)
· Captain Jeffrey Winter-U.S. Navy Commander of Carrier Air Wing 17 (Sept 2013)
· Commander Thomas Winter-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Montpelier (Jan 2013)
· Commander Corey Wofford- U.S. Navy Commander frigate Kauffman (Feb 2013)

[Ethereal]

perhaps. perhaps not. He was not the first general in that job. He took over late in the game and you have no idea what policy improvements or suggestions he may or may not have made that were or were not implemented. Ergo.... to say the general did not succeed - in absence of that data - is partisan hackery.

and Trump is certainly not "stating a fact".

So you admit the strategy is not working and that he helped to craft the strategy, but calling his time in Afghanistan a "failure" is not legitimate.

Yea, there sure is some partisan hackery going on here...

[maineman]

How many ranking officers has Obama purged from the ranks?

if, by "purged", you imply that the flag officer left his position unexpectedly early for political reasons only, the answer is none. Flag officers, and officers in every pay grade are fired for poor performance or unprofessional activity under every president. It is an incorrect, but oft repeated meme that Obama "purged" flag officers when such is simply not the case.

[maineman]

So you admit the strategy is not working and that he helped to craft the strategy, but calling his time in Afghanistan a "failure" is not legitimate.

Yea, there sure is some partisan hackery going on here...

you really can't fucking read, can you?

Show me where I "admitted" any such thing.

[Archer0915]

if, by "purged", you imply that the flag officer left his position unexpectedly early for political reasons only, the answer is none. Flag officers, and officers in every pay grade are fired for poor performance or unprofessional activity under every president. It is an incorrect, but oft repeated meme that Obama "purged" flag officers when such is simply not the case.

Obama is a bafoon. They were fired and now we have ISIS. Do you think I am fucking stupid? I know the score.

[maineman]

Obama is great for the military and Hillary will follow:


now...show me one of those officers who was fired from his position in advance of his normal rotation, for political reasons.

and it's interesting to note that of that long list, only 15 are actually "flag" officers, the majority are O-5's and O-6's with a handful of O-4's and even a senior enlisted man... all under the meme heading of FLAG officers PURGED.

Again... look at any one of those guys and show me that he lost his job for political reasons and NOT because he either exhibited poor professional performance and/or judgement, or behavior that was unbecoming of an officer.

I'll wait....

actually... I won't...

one night, when I had nothing much to do, I did that very thing and made it through all of the flag officers and a whole bunch of the O-6's and they ALL were fired for professional fuck ups or truly despicable behavior.

But feel free. Wake me up when you get something.

[Ethereal]

you really can't $#@!ing read, can you?

Show me where I "admitted" any such thing.

If you don't admit it, then you're ignorant.

He's a high level general. Of course he is crafting strategy. How could you not know that?

[kcvet]

Clinton: Trump's Comments on Gen. Allen 'Prove' He Should Not Be Commander-in-Chief

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clinton-trumps-comments-gen-allen-prove-commander-chief/story?id=41020306




=======================================
Thanks to ABC News for this report.

Imho, one who is running for president and who would carry the title of Commander-in-Chief should not be insulting our American generals or other military personnel. It's bad enough that Trump is so cozy with Putin but to go against leading members of the military just because they disagree that he should become president is quite shameful to say nothing about his being disrespectful to the position that they hold. And of course, the rest of the world has already found out about this which does not place Trump in good light at all.

The forum rules will be strictly observed by participants in this thread or non-conforming members will be thread banned.

If You Don't Like What Is Being Discussed In the OP You Can Always Do the Courteous Thing and Just Leave the Thread.

ABC gracey ?? dismissed

[Archer0915]

By the way, same Allen who was fired in 2012?

https://www.rt.com/usa/pentagon-investigation-gen-allen-828/

[maineman]

Obama is a bafoon. They were fired and now we have ISIS. Do you think I am fucking stupid? I know the score.

yes. as a matter of fact, I do. And I think you are fucking gullible as well. Would you NOT want our military to fire senior officers who showed incredibly poor professional judgment or incredibly poor personal behavior. Every name on that list either left their position at the normal rotation time, or screwed up personally or professionally. You can chose not to believe me... and I would expect something from someone as incurious as you, and as "fucking stupid" as you.

[Archer0915]

now...show me one of those officers who was fired from his position in advance of his normal rotation, for political reasons.

and it's interesting to note that of that long list, only 15 are actually "flag" officers, the majority are O-5's and O-6's with a handful of O-4's and even a senior enlisted man... all under the meme heading of FLAG officers PURGED.

Again... look at any one of those guys and show me that he lost his job for political reasons and NOT because he either exhibited poor professional performance and/or judgement, or behavior that was unbecoming of an officer.

I'll wait....

actually... I won't...

one night, when I had nothing much to do, I did that very thing and made it through all of the flag officers and a whole bunch of the O-6's and they ALL were fired for professional $#@! ups or truly despicable behavior.

But feel free. Wake me up when you get something.

I never said none were legit, I am sure most were.

[MisterVeritis]

How can any of the neocon hawks here be happy with a clown who says he knows more about ISIS than our generals do?
Had our generals won you might have a point. Our losing Generals never win.

[maineman]

If you don't admit it, then you're ignorant.

He's a high level general. Of course he is crafting strategy. How could you not know that?

If the strategy has been entrenched for years before he arrive and the civilians in charge are not willing to change it, than of course he is NOT crafting strategy. And I know that because I actually served with flag officers and know what I am talking about. How about you?

[maineman]

I never said none were legit, I am sure most were.

then what do you mean by the word "purged"?

all I ask is for you to give me one of the 15 flag officers on that list of 200 some odd "flag" officers who was purged for political reasons and not for professional ones.

you can't.

and you know it.

[Archer0915]

yes. as a matter of fact, I do. And I think you are $#@!ing gullible as well. Would you NOT want our military to fire senior officers who showed incredibly poor professional judgment or incredibly poor personal behavior. Every name on that list either left their position at the normal rotation time, or screwed up personally or professionally. You can chose not to believe me... and I would expect something from someone as incurious as you, and as "$#@!ing stupid" as you.

Don't know? Hillary did a shitload worse and you want her in the white house, now who is stupid?

Still I am not honoring the tpf thread, sorry TB.

One was fired for cussing.

I am sure everyone can be gotten rid of, easy to find something.

[MisterVeritis]

Did he fail at the objectives that were set before him? I won't argue with you that the objectives are unrealistic and that we should not have made the same mistake that western powers have always made before us in thinking we could somehow "change" Afghanistan....but General Allen certainly did his job as well as could possibly be expected. The POLICY was a failure, not the performance of the general.
He failed. Generals have a responsibility to advise the civilian leadership on the policies required to be successful.

He F A I L E D.

[MisterVeritis]

If the strategy has been entrenched for years before he arrive and the civilians in charge are not willing to change it, than of course he is NOT crafting strategy. And I know that because I actually served with flag officers and know what I am talking about. How about you?
Despite your apologies, we no longer win. Ever.

[Cletus]

Did he fail at the objectives that were set before him? I won't argue with you that the objectives are unrealistic and that we should not have made the same mistake that western powers have always made before us in thinking we could somehow "change" Afghanistan....but General Allen certainly did his job as well as could possibly be expected. The POLICY was a failure, not the performance of the general.

Did he achieve the mission objectives set by the Commander in Chief for Afghanistan?

A simple yes or no answer is all that is required.

[birddog]

Trump tends to believe some Generals more than others, Flynn for example. Trump is not saying that he Trump knows more than the Generals, he is using other General's opinions.

[Peter1469]

Check for status quo

[kcvet]

The general only pointed out facts. Trump insults himself every time he speaks.

when do we hear from Hitlary??

[maineman]

Did he achieve the mission objectives set by the Commander in Chief for Afghanistan?

A simple yes or no answer is all that is required.

no.

were the mission objectives set by the Commander in Chief for Afghanistan achievable?

A simple yes or no answer is all that is required OR desired.

[maineman]

Trump tends to believe some Generals more than others, Flynn for example. Trump is not saying that he Trump knows more than the Generals, he is using other General's opinions.

Trump's exact words:

“I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me’’

[kcvet]

CNC that's a good one

http://static.ijreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/10686691_10153164693298653_7564345890540538179_n.j pg

[maineman]

Cletus... I answered your question. If you aren't willing to be forthcoming with me in return, you ought not to expect further cooperation from me in the future.


no.

were the mission objectives set by the Commander in Chief for Afghanistan achievable?

A simple yes or no answer is all that is required OR desired.

[birddog]

Trump's exact words:

“I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me’’

"the Generals" could easily be only a few, but not all Generals.

[Cletus]

no.

Then he did in fact fail.


were the mission objectives set by the Commander in Chief for Afghanistan achievable?

It was his job to make them achievable.

[Cletus]

@Cletus (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1708)... I answered your question. If you aren't willing to be forthcoming with me in return, you ought not to expect further cooperation from me in the future.

It is hard to answer your question when I haven't been here in several hours.

[Tahuyaman]

Hillary is no better.

Heck of a choice our two party system left us with.


Dumb and dumber. Only no one can say which one is which.

[maineman]

It is hard to answer your question when I haven't been here in several hours.

but when you returned, you STILL couldn't. why am I not surprised.

[maineman]

"the Generals" could easily be only a few, but not all Generals.

YOUR words:

"Trump is not saying that he Trump knows more than the Generals."

TRUMP'S words:

“I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me.’’

so you have just demonstrated that you will actually try to spin black into white in defense of your orange haired megalomaniac hero. You should be so proud of yourself.

and tell me how Donald Trump, who never served his country in any capacity, and who never studied foreign affairs, or statecraft or comparative religion or Islam, could possibly know more about ISIS than ANY of our generals, or Colonels, or Lieutenant Colonels, or Majors, or Captains, for that matter? You don't gain a lot of insight on ISIS by building golf courses and hotels and bilking contractors and filing for bankruptcies. Different knowledge sets entirely.

[Mac-7]

YOUR words:

"Trump is not saying that he Trump knows more than the Generals."

TRUMP'S words:

“I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me.’’



Trump of course is wrong about that.

the military officers know far more about isis and how to fight them than trump.

or obumer

or hillary.

So trump will not only have to walk it back but he will have to accept that they are respected authorities in their field.

But as far as I can tell obama never learned that lesson and never listened to his generals.

I think trump is a faster learner and more humble and willing to learn than obumer or hillary.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W-Mjy9ETtRY

[maineman]

considering the distance that trump needs to walk, to "walk THAT back", he'd better get started today, don't you think?

What if he's required to make some hard decision about ISIS on day two of his presidency?

[maineman]

I think trump is a faster learner and more humble and willing to learn


the fact that you felt comfortable putting "Trump" and "humble" in the same sentence without some sort of a negative modifier between them proves to me that you have your nose completely imbedded in his ass. There is not a humble bone in his body.

"I am the ONLY one who can fix it"

very humble.... very humble indeed.

[MisterVeritis]

and tell me how Donald Trump, who never served his country in any capacity, and who never studied foreign affairs, or statecraft or comparative religion or Islam, could possibly know more about ISIS than ANY of our generals, or Colonels, or Lieutenant Colonels, or Majors, or Captains, for that matter? You don't gain a lot of insight on ISIS by building golf courses and hotels and bilking contractors and filing for bankruptcies. Different knowledge sets entirely.
Trump knows more about winning.

Our generals no longer win. It is time for a change.

[MisterVeritis]

considering the distance that trump needs to walk, to "walk THAT back", he'd better get started today, don't you think?

What if he's required to make some hard decision about ISIS on day two of his presidency?
Barack Hussein O has been putting off the hard decisions on ISIS since the beginning.

We go to war for political reasons. Military advisors are not there solely to offer military advice. Generals are there to ensure that the policy is the right one to allow for victory.

Trump knows about winning. He does know more about ISIS than the generals. The generals know lots of little things. Trump knows the important big things.

[birddog]

YOUR words:

"Trump is not saying that he Trump knows more than the Generals."

TRUMP'S words:

“I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me.’’

so you have just demonstrated that you will actually try to spin black into white in defense of your orange haired megalomaniac hero. You should be so proud of yourself.

and tell me how Donald Trump, who never served his country in any capacity, and who never studied foreign affairs, or statecraft or comparative religion or Islam, could possibly know more about ISIS than ANY of our generals, or Colonels, or Lieutenant Colonels, or Majors, or Captains, for that matter? You don't gain a lot of insight on ISIS by building golf courses and hotels and bilking contractors and filing for bankruptcies. Different knowledge sets entirely.

My opinion still holds, and not due to SW's saying, "it depends on what the definition of is is."

I do admit to not hearing Trump's opinion with consideration to the context. Of course, my command of language is superior to yours, but that's OK.:grin:

[maineman]

My opinion still holds.


of course it does. In your world, Trump is NOT saying something that he SAYS he IS saying is perfectly acceptable pretzel logic.

My command of the English language tells me that, "The sky is blue" is not the same as "The sky is NOT blue."

When the count is full on a batter in baseball, and someone says "The umpire just called that last pitch a strike", and someone else says, "The umpire did NOT just call that last pitch a strike", in one case, the runner walks to the dugout and in the other, he walks to first base.

[birddog]

of course it does. In your world, Trump is NOT saying something that he SAYS he IS saying is perfectly acceptable pretzel logic.

My command of the English language tells me that, "The sky is blue" is not the same as "The sky is NOT blue."

When the count is full on a batter in baseball, and someone says "The umpire just called that last pitch a strike", and someone else says, "The umpire did NOT just call that last pitch a strike", in one case, the runner walks to the dugout and in the other, he walks to first base.

That's a good attempt at reality. I always recognize reality, perhaps you should do it more often.:grin:

[Professor Peabody]

Hillary is simply too stupid to be Commander in Chump.

[FindersKeepers]

Hillary is simply too stupid to be Commander in Chump.



I don't know that I'd call her stupid -- but she's dangerous. Her history is one of jingoism and narcissism, traits that are volatile by themselves, but deadly when combined.

[Truth Detector]

Clinton: Trump's Comments on Gen. Allen 'Prove' He Should Not Be Commander-in-Chief

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clinton-trumps-comments-gen-allen-prove-commander-chief/story?id=41020306

=======================================
Thanks to ABC News for this report.

Imho, one who is running for president and who would carry the title of Commander-in-Chief should not be insulting our American generals or other military personnel. It's bad enough that Trump is so cozy with Putin but to go against leading members of the military just because they disagree that he should become president is quite shameful to say nothing about his being disrespectful to the position that they hold. And of course, the rest of the world has already found out about this which does not place Trump in good light at all.

The forum rules will be strictly observed by participants in this thread or non-conforming members will be thread banned.

If You Don't Like What Is Being Discussed In the OP You Can Always Do the Courteous Thing and Just Leave the Thread.

More stupidity; if you get your talking points from Hillary, you just might be an uninformed dupe.

So please elaborate on these hateful statements from the Trumpster; what are they? Then, let's compare them to the Islamic Fascist who made them.

I want to make something very clear; this gold star family bullschit is baloney; when they engage in political rhetoric and attack candidates, it is open season on them....I don't give a schit what their sons and daughters did.

As for the Democrats pretending to care about our military; that is the biggest steaming pile of manure on the planet.

Okay; your turn now....show me these awful comments Trump made and I will compare them to the bullshit this Islamic Fascist made.

[Truth Detector]

This election is about one thing:

nationalism or the status quo- the drive towards zero borders.

...and the fact that the most recent GDP report was again, anemic. Gotta love Obamunism; I can't imagine why anyone would want another four years of this crap except for the brain dead and retarded.

[Truth Detector]

The general only pointed out facts. Trump insults himself every time he speaks.

What facts were those? Do share them.

[Truth Detector]

How can any of the neocon hawks here be happy with a clown who says he knows more about ISIS than our generals do?

Link please.

[Truth Detector]

Did he fail at the objectives that were set before him? I won't argue with you that the objectives are unrealistic and that we should not have made the same mistake that western powers have always made before us in thinking we could somehow "change" Afghanistan....but General Allen certainly did his job as well as could possibly be expected. The POLICY was a failure, not the performance of the general.

Are you attempting to argue that Afghanistan is a resounding success??? It is amusing how Liberals cannot seem to remember what they were ranting about last week.

[Truth Detector]

Obama is great for the military and Hillary will follow:

· General John R. Allen-U.S. Marines Commander International Security Assistance Force [ISAF] (Nov 2012)
· Major General Ralph Baker (2 Star)-U.S. Army Commander of the Combined Joint Task Force Horn in Africa (April 2013)
· Major General Michael Carey (2 Star)-U.S. Air Force Commander of the 20th US Air Force in charge of 9,600 people and 450 Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles (Oct 2013)
· Colonel James Christmas-U.S. Marines Commander 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit & Commander Special-Purpose Marine Air-Ground Task Force Crisis Response Unit (July 2013)
· Major General Peter Fuller-U.S. Army Commander in Afghanistan (May 2011)
· Major General Charles M.M. Gurganus-U.S. Marine Corps Regional Commander of SW and I Marine Expeditionary Force in Afghanistan (Oct 2013)
· General Carter F. Ham-U.S. Army African Command (Oct 2013)
· Lieutenant General David H. Huntoon (3 Star), Jr.-U.S. Army 58th Superintendent of the US Military Academy at West Point, NY (2013)
· Command Sergeant Major Don B Jordan-U.S. Army 143rd Expeditionary Sustainment Command (suspended Oct 2013)
· General James Mattis-U.S. Marines Chief of CentCom (May 2013)
· Colonel Daren Margolin-U.S. Marine in charge of Quantico’s Security Battalion (Oct 2013)
· General Stanley McChrystal-U.S. Army Commander Afghanistan (June 2010)
· General David D. McKiernan-U.S. Army Commander Afghanistan (2009)
· General David Petraeus-Director of CIA from September 2011 to November 2012 & U.S. Army Commander International Security Assistance Force [ISAF] and Commander U.S. Forces Afghanistan [USFOR-A] (Nov 2012)
· Brigadier General Bryan Roberts-U.S. Army Commander 2nd Brigade (May 2013)
· Major General Gregg A. Sturdevant-U.S. Marine Corps Director of Strategic Planning and Policy for the U.S. Pacific Command & Commander of Aviation Wing at Camp Bastion, Afghanistan (Sept 2013)
· Colonel Eric Tilley-U.S. Army Commander of Garrison Japan (Nov 2013)
· Brigadier General Bryan Wampler-U.S. Army Commanding General of 143rd Expeditionary Sustainment Command of the 1st Theater Sustainment Command [TSC] (suspended Oct 2013)
Commanding Admirals fired:
· Rear Admiral Charles Gaouette-U.S. Navy Commander John C. Stennis Carrier Strike Group Three (Oct 2012)
· Vice Admiral Tim Giardina(3 Star, demoted to 2 Star)-U.S. Navy Deputy Commander of the US Strategic Command, Commander of the Submarine Group Trident, Submarine Group 9 and Submarine Group 10 (Oct 2013)
Naval Officers fired: (All in 2011)
· Captain David Geisler-U.S. Navy Commander Task Force 53 in Bahrain (Oct 2011)
· Commander Laredo Bell-U.S. Navy Commander Naval Support Activity Saratoga Springs, NY (Aug 2011)
· Lieutenant Commander Kurt Boenisch-Executive Officer amphibious transport dock Ponce (Apr 2011)
· Commander Nathan Borchers-U.S. Navy Commander destroyer Stout (Mar 2011)
· Commander Robert Brown-U.S. Navy Commander Beachmaster Unit 2 Fort Story, VA (Aug 2011)
· Commander Andrew Crowe-Executive Officer Navy Region Center Singapore (Apr 2011)
· Captain Robert Gamberg-Executive Officer carrier Dwight D. Eisenhower (Jun 2011)
· Captain Rex Guinn-U.S. Navy Commander Navy Legal Service office Japan (Feb 2011)
· Commander Kevin Harms- U.S. Navy Commander Strike Fighter Squadron 137 aboard the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln (Mar 2011)
· Lieutenant Commander Martin Holguin-U.S. Navy Commander mine countermeasures Fearless (Oct 2011)
· Captain Owen Honors-U.S. Navy Commander aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (Jan 2011)
· Captain Donald Hornbeck-U.S. Navy Commander Destroyer Squadron 1 San Diego
(Apr 2011)
· Rear Admiral Ron Horton-U.S. Navy Commander Logistics Group, Western Pacific
(Mar 2011)
· Commander Etta Jones-U.S. Navy Commander amphibious transport dock Ponce (Apr 2011)
· Commander Ralph Jones-Executive Officer amphibious transport dock Green Bay (Jul 2011)
· Commander Jonathan Jackson-U.S. Navy Commander Electronic Attack Squadron 134, deployed aboard carrier Carl Vinson (Dec 2011)
· Captain Eric Merrill-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Emory S. Land (Jul 2011)
· Captain William Mosk-U.S. Navy Commander Naval Station Rota, U.S. Navy Commander Naval Activities Spain (Apr 2011)
· Commander Timothy Murphy-U.S. Navy Commander Electronic Attack Squadron 129 at Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, WA (Apr 2011)
· Commander Joseph Nosse-U.S. Navy Commander ballistic-missile submarine Kentucky (Oct 2011)
· Commander Mark Olson-U.S. Navy Commander destroyer The Sullivans FL (Sep 2011)
· Commander John Pethel-Executive Officer amphibious transport dock New York (Dec 2011)
· Commander Karl Pugh-U.S. Navy Commander Electronic Attack Squadron 141 Whidbey Island, WA (Jul 2011)
· Commander Jason Strength-U.S. Navy Commander of Navy Recruiting District Nashville, TN (Jul 2011)
· Captain Greg Thomas-U.S. Navy Commander Norfolk Naval Shipyard (May 2011)
· Commander Mike Varney-U.S. Navy Commander attack submarine Connecticut (Jun 2011)
· Commander Jay Wylie-U.S. Navy Commander destroyer Momsen (Apr 2011)
Naval Officers fired: (All in 2012):
· Commander Alan C. Aber-Executive Officer Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron 71 (July 2012)
· Commander Derick Armstrong- U.S. Navy Commander missile destroyer USS The Sullivans (May 2012)
· Commander Martin Arriola- U.S. Navy Commander destroyer USS Porter (Aug 2012)
· Captain Antonio Cardoso- U.S. Navy Commander Training Support Center San Diego (Sep 2012)
· Captain James CoBell- U.S. Navy Commander Oceana Naval Air Station’s Fleet Readiness Center Mid-Atlantic (Sep 2012)
· Captain Joseph E. Darlak- U.S. Navy Commander frigate USS Vandegrift (Nov 2012)
· Captain Daniel Dusek-U.S. Navy Commander USS Bonhomme
· Commander David Faught-Executive Officer destroyer Chung-Hoon (Sep 2012)
· Commander Franklin Fernandez- U.S. Navy Commander Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 24 (Aug 2012)
· Commander Ray Hartman- U.S. Navy Commander Amphibious dock-landing ship Fort McHenry (Nov 2012)
· Commander Shelly Hakspiel-Executive Officer Navy Drug Screening Lab San Diego (May 2012)
· Commander Jon Haydel- U.S. Navy Commander USS San Diego (Mar 2012)
· Commander Diego Hernandez- U.S. Navy Commander ballistic-missile submarine USS Wyoming (Feb 2012)
· Commander Lee Hoey- U.S. Navy Commander Drug Screening Laboratory, San Diego (May 2012)
· Commander Ivan Jimenez-Executive Officer frigate Vandegrift (Nov 2012)
· Commander Dennis Klein- U.S. Navy Commander submarine USS Columbia (May 2012)
· Captain Chuck Litchfield- U.S. Navy Commander assault ship USS Essex (Jun 2012)
· Captain Marcia Kim Lyons- U.S. Navy Commander Naval Health Clinic New England (Apr 2012)
· Captain Robert Marin- U.S. Navy Commander cruiser USS Cowpens (Feb 2012)
· Captain Sean McDonell- U.S. Navy Commander Seabee reserve unit Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 14 FL (Nov 2012)
· Commander Corrine Parker- U.S. Navy Commander Fleet Logistics Support Squadron 1 (Apr 2012)
· Captain Liza Raimondo- U.S. Navy Commander Naval Health Clinic Patuxent River, MD (Jun 2012)
· Captain Jeffrey Riedel- Program manager, Littoral Combat Ship program (Jan 2012)
· Commander Sara Santoski- U.S. Navy Commander Helicopter Mine Countermeasures Squadron 15 (Sep 2012)
· Commander Kyle G. Strudthoff-Executive Officer Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron 25 (Sep 2012)
· Commander Sheryl Tannahill- U.S. Navy Commander Navy Operational Support Center [NOSC] Nashville, TN (Sep 2012)
· Commander Michael Ward- U.S. Navy Commander submarine USS Pittsburgh (Aug 2012)
· Captain Michael Wiegand- U.S. Navy Commander Southwest Regional Maintenance Center (Nov 2012)
· Captain Ted Williams- U.S. Navy Commander amphibious command ship Mount Whitney (Nov 2012)
· Commander Jeffrey Wissel- U.S. Navy Commander of Fleet Air Reconnaissance Squadron 1 (Feb 2012)
Naval Officers fired: (All in 2013):
· Lieutenant Commander Lauren Allen-Executive Officer submarine Jacksonville (Feb 2013)
· Reserve Captain Jay Bowman-U.S. Navy Commander Navy Operational Support Center [NOSC] Fort Dix, NJ (Mar 2013)
· Captain William Cogar-U.S. Navy Commander hospital ship Mercy’s medical treatment facility (Sept 2013)
· Commander Steve Fuller-Executive Officer frigate Kauffman (Mar 2013)
· Captain Shawn Hendricks-Program Manager for naval enterprise IT networks (June 2013)
· Captain David Hunter-U.S. Navy Commander of Maritime Expeditionary Security Squadron 12 & Coastal Riverine Group 2 (Feb 2013)
· Captain Eric Johnson-U.S. Navy Chief of Military Entrance Processing Command at Great Lakes Naval Training Center, IL (2013)
· Captain Devon Jones-U.S. Navy Commander Naval Air Facility El Centro, CA (July 2013)
· Captain Kevin Knoop-U.S. Navy Commander hospital ship Comfort’s medical treatment facility (Aug 2013)
· Lieutenant Commander Jack O’Neill-U.S. Navy Commander Operational Support Center Rock Island, IL (Mar 2013)
· Commander Allen Maestas-Executive Officer Beachmaster Unit 1 (May 2013)
· Commander Luis Molina-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Pasadena (Jan 2013)
· Commander James Pickens-Executive Officer frigate Gary (Feb 2013)
· Lieutenant Commander Mark Rice-U.S. Navy Commander Mine Countermeasures ship Guardian (Apr 2013)
· Commander Michael Runkle-U.S. Navy Commander of Mobile Diving and Salvage Unit 2 (May 2013)
· Commander Jason Stapleton-Executive Office Patrol Squadron 4 in Hawaii (Mar 2013)
· Commander Nathan Sukols-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Jacksonville (Feb 2013)
· Lieutenant Daniel Tyler-Executive Officer Mine Countermeasures ship Guardian (Apr 2013)
· Commander Edward White-U.S. Navy Commander Strike Fighter Squadron 106 (Aug 2013)
· Captain Jeffrey Winter-U.S. Navy Commander of Carrier Air Wing 17 (Sept 2013)
· Commander Thomas Winter-U.S. Navy Commander submarine Montpelier (Jan 2013)
· Commander Corey Wofford- U.S. Navy Commander frigate Kauffman (Feb 2013)

:rofl: Link please.

[Truth Detector]

you really can't $#@!ing read, can you?

Show me where I "admitted" any such thing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I

[Truth Detector]

now...show me one of those officers who was fired from his position in advance of his normal rotation, for political reasons.

and it's interesting to note that of that long list, only 15 are actually "flag" officers, the majority are O-5's and O-6's with a handful of O-4's and even a senior enlisted man... all under the meme heading of FLAG officers PURGED.

Again... look at any one of those guys and show me that he lost his job for political reasons and NOT because he either exhibited poor professional performance and/or judgement, or behavior that was unbecoming of an officer.

I'll wait....

actually... I won't...

one night, when I had nothing much to do, I did that very thing and made it through all of the flag officers and a whole bunch of the O-6's and they ALL were fired for professional $#@! ups or truly despicable behavior.

But feel free. Wake me up when you get something.

:rofl: So you support Hillary's decision to go into Iraq?

[Truth Detector]

yes. as a matter of fact, I do. And I think you are $#@!ing gullible as well. Would you NOT want our military to fire senior officers who showed incredibly poor professional judgment or incredibly poor personal behavior. Every name on that list either left their position at the normal rotation time, or screwed up personally or professionally. You can chose not to believe me... and I would expect something from someone as incurious as you, and as "$#@!ing stupid" as you.

Irony coming from someone supporting a sociopathic lying, inept, incompetent, corrupt partisan hack for President.

[Truth Detector]

If the strategy has been entrenched for years before he arrive and the civilians in charge are not willing to change it, than of course he is NOT crafting strategy. And I know that because I actually served with flag officers and know what I am talking about. How about you?

Nothing more amusing than watching Popeye erupt about military strategy. :rofl:

[Truth Detector]

Trump's exact words:

“I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me’’

Link please.

[Truth Detector]

considering the distance that trump needs to walk, to "walk THAT back", he'd better get started today, don't you think?

What if he's required to make some hard decision about ISIS on day two of his presidency?

How does Hillary walk back her vote to go into Iraq???

[Truth Detector]

of course it does. In your world, Trump is NOT saying something that he SAYS he IS saying is perfectly acceptable pretzel logic.

My command of the English language tells me that, "The sky is blue" is not the same as "The sky is NOT blue."

When the count is full on a batter in baseball, and someone says "The umpire just called that last pitch a strike", and someone else says, "The umpire did NOT just call that last pitch a strike", in one case, the runner walks to the dugout and in the other, he walks to first base.

:rofl: This from a guy living in Mexico pretending he was a Commander supporting a lying corrupt inept dunce like Hillary; it is HILLARIOUS!!

[donttread]

Clinton: Trump's Comments on Gen. Allen 'Prove' He Should Not Be Commander-in-Chief

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/clinton-trumps-comments-gen-allen-prove-commander-chief/story?id=41020306




=======================================
Thanks to ABC News for this report.

Imho, one who is running for president and who would carry the title of Commander-in-Chief should not be insulting our American generals or other military personnel. It's bad enough that Trump is so cozy with Putin but to go against leading members of the military just because they disagree that he should become president is quite shameful to say nothing about his being disrespectful to the position that they hold. And of course, the rest of the world has already found out about this which does not place Trump in good light at all.

The forum rules will be strictly observed by participants in this thread or non-conforming members will be thread banned.

If You Don't Like What Is Being Discussed In the OP You Can Always Do the Courteous Thing and Just Leave the Thread.

But to be accurate he did in fact fail. We were doing OK with ALQ but they got the hell out of the country and we just what stayed to make war on the Taliban, who probably wouldn't even be in power in Afghanistan if it weren't for our " proxy war" with the Russians in the 80's. I'm guessing that if the Russians ruled Afghanistan in 2001 there would have been no 9/11. And that's how what goes around comes around. So what attack 20 or 30 years from now did our occupation of Afghanistan for way too long already set in motion?
To be fair the fault truely lies with Bushbama not the general, but generals know going in where they stand on the scapegoat chart.