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midcan5
08-06-2016, 08:33 AM
I am watching the screaming crowd at a Trump rally, I am asking why. A purple heart veteran gives a medal to a draft dodger who promises greatness. Google 'the emasculated American male' and you will get 634,000 hits. What is it about a man that I perceive as a insecure narcissist that gives hope to so many?


Harvard professor and Manliness author Harvey C. Mansfield, 'We are attracted to the manly man because he imparts some of his confidence to everyone else.' Maybe so, but I do not see Donald Trump as a manly man, if anything he seems the son of the pampered upper class. Those born to wealth, who cannot imagine poverty's world. He will not even release his tax forms.


A few of the links in my Google search came from conservative sites and were dated after Barack Obama's election. Did the accomplishment of a Black man fuel this sense of powerlessness? Democrats have lost the white vote since Civil Rights legislation. Is this fear and need born of a deep seated racism.


Witness the hatred of Hillary. Today it is email and Benghazi, but do they forget the witch images from her husband's presidency. Is fear and need born too of misogyny. A woman demonized by republicans for so long. Add in immigration, Mexicans, Muslims, where do you place them.


Certain themes dominate, they get it all, freeloaders, the system is rigged, we are a Christian nation, it's the liberal media, words come to form meaning, thinking is absent, thought is absent. When Trump loses in November it will be because it is a rigged system, and the false narrative will continue. Some will believe. Republicans have engaged in these whistle words for sixty years, someone finally took them up. Their appeal has backfired. Republicans were complicit in a creation they now question.


Hitler references are used too often so now one cannot make comparisons. I will make America great again. I will do this. The crowd cheers, and we will be safe again, and strong again. I will have your back, we will keep them out, we will throw them out, they have to go, the crowd chants, signs waves, slogans work on this audience. Nationalism is a double edged sword.


And why does the American, a person who lives in one of the greatest nations feel they need a savior, a powerful man to lead them to some promised land? Trump praises Putin, is a Russia dictator what they want, a strong leader to makes their wrongs right?


The question becomes when did Americans become so weak they needed someone to lead them? What happened to the free individual, the cowboy image, the creators, the proud American, the laborer, and the made in America. What happened to the nation that won all the important battles? What changed?

Peter1469
08-06-2016, 08:37 AM
They have supplements and diets to leach excess estrogen from men.



Research it. You need it.

Subdermal
08-06-2016, 09:00 AM
I am watching the screaming crowd at a Trump rally, I am asking why. A purple heart veteran gives a medal to a draft dodger who promises greatness. Google 'the emasculated American male' and you will get 634,000 hits. What is it about a man that I perceive as a insecure narcissist that gives hope to so many?

I googled 'mid can' and got 854,000,000 hits. What is it about...what? Who cares what you perceive?



Harvard professor and Manliness author Harvey C. Mansfield, 'We are attracted to the manly man because he imparts some of his confidence to everyone else.' Maybe so, but I do not see Donald Trump as a manly man, if anything he seems the son of the pampered upper class. Those born to wealth, who cannot imagine poverty's world. He will not even release his tax forms.

And yet, Trump has paid off mortgages of struggling families, given rides to stranded motorists, given to and raised for charity many orders of magnitude more money than you'll ever earn.


A few of the links in my Google search came from conservative sites and were dated after Barack Obama's election. Did the accomplishment of a Black man fuel this sense of powerlessness? Democrats have lost the white vote since Civil Rights legislation. Is this fear and need born of a deep seated racism.

Race card; three paragraphs in. Obama is effeminate; that's why your hits reflect Obama.


Witness the hatred of Hillary. Today it is email and Benghazi, but do they forget the witch images from her husband's presidency. Is fear and need born too of misogyny. A woman demonized by republicans for so long. Add in immigration, Mexicans, Muslims, where do you place them.

The gender card, played in paragraph 4. Sweet. I guess you prioritize race-baiting above misogyny.


Certain themes dominate

Yes, we've seen two of your themes which dominate - all in the first 5 paragraphs of your goofy talking point meme rant.


..they get it all, freeloaders, the system is rigged, we are a Christian nation, it's the liberal media, words come to form meaning, thinking is absent, thought is absent.

There is zero evidence of that. Trump has galvanized a strong sentiment in this country that it is being taken away from us; that our traditions and autonomy and identity are under attack.

You're a willing participant in this attack, what with your social justice race-baiting causes, so you refuse to acknowledge the causes of the backlash to your ideology.

Thought isn't being demonstrated as absent here, midcan. Awareness is: you're unaware. You're unaware of the backlash to the increasingly brash and unapologetic implementation BY FORCE of your progressive ideology.


When Trump loses in November it will be because it is a rigged system, and the false narrative will continue.

Oh. A strawman. Paragraph 5.

If Trump loses, it will be a combination of the following:

1. Trump's inability to stay on message, and the ease with which the MSM and Dems paint him as unfit.

2. Activist liberals playing with votes through a combination of Voter ID judicial malfeasance and activism, vote baiting (leftist concerts held to funnel voters into the booths; broad-brush voting rights granted to felons; voter fraud allowing illegals and dead people to vote) - or outright tampering (zero votes for Romney - ZERO! - in nearly a hundred precincts: a statistical impossibility).

3. The power of the MSM to paint an opaque picture that a dimwitted public didn't discern as false;

4. A now sufficiently large dependent class of citizens more interested in sucking hind teat than providing one.


Some will believe. Republicans have engaged in these whistle words for sixty years, someone finally took them up. Their appeal has backfired. Republicans were complicit in a creation they now question.

You clearly fail at diagnosing the sentiment of many Americans. The backlash is happening with both Republicans and Democrats. Bernie voters are the Dem version; Trump voters are the GOP version.


Hitler references are used too often so now one cannot make comparisons.

And are the Hitler references mostly leftist, along with the race and gender cards?


I will make America great again. I will do this. The crowd cheers, and we will be safe again, and strong again. I will have your back, we will keep them out, we will throw them out, they have to go, the crowd chants, signs waves, slogans work on this audience. Nationalism is a double edged sword.

Double edged? Are you worried about seeing more than one way to get cut?

Good.


And why does the American, a person who lives in one of the greatest nations feel they need a savior, a powerful man to lead them to some promised land? Trump praises Putin, is a Russia dictator what they want, a strong leader to makes their wrongs right?

More leftist spin. I thought you leftists wanted the world to get along?

Trump hasn't praised Putin like you're claiming. He's said he can get along with him. Isn't that what you lefties claim you want? Or are your claims - as so many of us suspect - bullsht?


The question becomes when did Americans become so weak they needed someone to lead them?

When weakness is what has been leading.


What happened to the free individual, the cowboy image, the creators, the proud American, the laborer, and the made in America. What happened to the nation that won all the important battles? What changed?

Again, your tuning fork is strangled with cognitive dissonance.

Liberals infiltrated positions of power and influence: The Three Branches (most effectively in the Judiciary), Entertainment and Education. That's what happened - and with the expansion of Government, came Cronyism.

It's hard to be any of those things in a land with suffocating red tape and hand-wringing leftists who write impossible ROE for our military and are afraid to lead, for fear of who it is they will offend.

Except Conservatives and Christians. Offending them is fine.

FindersKeepers
08-06-2016, 09:06 AM
I am watching the screaming crowd at a Trump rally, I am asking why. A purple heart veteran gives a medal to a draft dodger who promises greatness. Google 'the emasculated American male' and you will get 634,000 hits. What is it about a man that I perceive as a insecure narcissist that gives hope to so many?

That's interesting that you view it as such, because the same has been said of Obama over the years. Those who support Trump, do so becasue they think he'll be "strong" on specific issues, one of them being illegal immigration. BTW, Trump wasn't a "draft dodger." That term has a specific definition.



Witness the hatred of Hillary. Today it is email and Benghazi, but do they forget the witch images from her husband's presidency. Is fear and need born too of misogyny. A woman demonized by republicans for so long. Add in immigration, Mexicans, Muslims, where do you place them.

Oh foof. Hillary is constantly criticized over things she's been involved in. If you want to see true hatred toward a candidate, look back to the way the democrats treated Palin.



Certain themes dominate, they get it all, freeloaders, the system is rigged, we are a Christian nation, it's the liberal media, words come to form meaning, thinking is absent, thought is absent. When Trump loses in November it will be because it is a rigged system, and the false narrative will continue. Some will believe. Republicans have engaged in these whistle words for sixty years, someone finally took them up. Their appeal has backfired. Republicans were complicit in a creation they now question.

Some of those claims have a bit of validity -- and perhaps you're right. Perhaps, when Trump loses in November, we'll hear a replay of what we heard when Gore lost to GWB.



And why does the American, a person who lives in one of the greatest nations feel they need a savior, a powerful man to lead them to some promised land? Trump praises Putin, is a Russia dictator what they want, a strong leader to makes their wrongs right?

Your complaints of the "savior" complex are nothing new. Google "Obama" and "savior" and you'll be astonished what you pull up.


The question becomes when did Americans become so weak they needed someone to lead them? What happened to the free individual, the cowboy image, the creators, the proud American, the laborer, and the made in America. What happened to the nation that won all the important battles? What changed?

The Progressives have feminized us. The Snowflake Generation cries and demands a "safe space" when they feel oppressed because someone writes "Trump 2016" on the steps.

You're actually right about a lot of what you say -- you just don't seem to realize where the feminization is actually coming from.

Common
08-06-2016, 09:12 AM
Im speechless

Subdermal
08-06-2016, 09:19 AM
Im speechless

And you said more truth in 2 words than the OP managed in 800.

Cletus
08-06-2016, 09:41 AM
If you want to look at emasculated Americans, you need go no farther than the pages of this forum. Some of our resident Leftists, and I am certainly willing to name them, gave up any vestige of "manliness" they may have ever possessed, long ago.

I just read a post from one of them that I would have sworn was female until he started talking about women being attracted to him because he plays guitar (Of course, that would also fit the profile of many of our Leftist females).

Standing Wolf
08-06-2016, 10:43 AM
If you want to look at emasculated Americans, you need go no farther than the pages of this forum. Some of our resident Leftists, and I am certainly willing to name them, gave up any vestige of "manliness" they may have ever possessed, long ago.

I just read a post from one of them that I would have sworn was female until he started talking about women being attracted to him because he plays guitar (Of course, that would also fit the profile of many of our Leftist females).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V_hCqO6UQs

birddog
08-06-2016, 12:36 PM
Trump was not a draft dodger. He had four college deferments and a medical deferment. The OP and the truth are far apart, probably jealous of Donald drawing big crowds and Hillary zilch!

Subdermal
08-06-2016, 12:37 PM
Millennial males are absolutely emasculated - and they, better than any other demographic in our history - are emblematic of the weakness of the ideology of Progressivism.

Common
08-06-2016, 12:42 PM
Millennial males are absolutely emasculated - and they, better than any other demographic in our history - are emblematic of the weakness of the ideology of Progressivism.

I hope to god this isnt true. There was a reason nature made men and women. Mothers instill values needed and so Do Fathers take one or the other way and you got an unfinished product

Bethere
08-06-2016, 02:42 PM
If you want to look at emasculated Americans, you need go no farther than the pages of this forum. Some of our resident Leftists, and I am certainly willing to name them, gave up any vestige of "manliness" they may have ever possessed, long ago.I just read a post from one of them that I would have sworn was female until he started talking about women being attracted to him because he plays guitar (Of course, that would also fit the profile of many of our Leftist females).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V_hCqO6UQs

Bob the Slob
08-06-2016, 02:45 PM
I am watching the screaming crowd at a Trump rally, I am asking why. A purple heart veteran gives a medal to a draft dodger who promises greatness. Google 'the emasculated American male' and you will get 634,000 hits. What is it about a man that I perceive as a insecure narcissist that gives hope to so many?


Harvard professor and Manliness author Harvey C. Mansfield, 'We are attracted to the manly man because he imparts some of his confidence to everyone else.' Maybe so, but I do not see Donald Trump as a manly man, if anything he seems the son of the pampered upper class. Those born to wealth, who cannot imagine poverty's world. He will not even release his tax forms.


A few of the links in my Google search came from conservative sites and were dated after Barack Obama's election. Did the accomplishment of a Black man fuel this sense of powerlessness? Democrats have lost the white vote since Civil Rights legislation. Is this fear and need born of a deep seated racism.


Witness the hatred of Hillary. Today it is email and Benghazi, but do they forget the witch images from her husband's presidency. Is fear and need born too of misogyny. A woman demonized by republicans for so long. Add in immigration, Mexicans, Muslims, where do you place them.


Certain themes dominate, they get it all, freeloaders, the system is rigged, we are a Christian nation, it's the liberal media, words come to form meaning, thinking is absent, thought is absent. When Trump loses in November it will be because it is a rigged system, and the false narrative will continue. Some will believe. Republicans have engaged in these whistle words for sixty years, someone finally took them up. Their appeal has backfired. Republicans were complicit in a creation they now question.


Hitler references are used too often so now one cannot make comparisons. I will make America great again. I will do this. The crowd cheers, and we will be safe again, and strong again. I will have your back, we will keep them out, we will throw them out, they have to go, the crowd chants, signs waves, slogans work on this audience. Nationalism is a double edged sword.


And why does the American, a person who lives in one of the greatest nations feel they need a savior, a powerful man to lead them to some promised land? Trump praises Putin, is a Russia dictator what they want, a strong leader to makes their wrongs right?


The question becomes when did Americans become so weak they needed someone to lead them? What happened to the free individual, the cowboy image, the creators, the proud American, the laborer, and the made in America. What happened to the nation that won all the important battles? What changed?


I don't know as it's this man trump gives them hope or more that the republican establishment has used them and lied to them for 40 years about helping them.

Bob the Slob
08-06-2016, 02:46 PM
If you want to look at emasculated Americans, you need go no farther than the pages of this forum. Some of our resident Leftists, and I am certainly willing to name them, gave up any vestige of "manliness" they may have ever possessed, long ago.

I just read a post from one of them that I would have sworn was female until he started talking about women being attracted to him because he plays guitar (Of course, that would also fit the profile of many of our Leftist females).

So a real man beats his wife like it says in your bible?

Bob the Slob
08-06-2016, 02:48 PM
Millennial males are absolutely emasculated - and they, better than any other demographic in our history - are emblematic of the weakness of the ideology of Progressivism.


How do you get that? Where has progressivism been in our society? Where is it located? It was taken from funding for public schools back in reagan times. There are NO progressive bills being pushed in congress because the majority of democrats are reagan republicans called neoliberals. Seems to me the emasulcation definition should be explained further by you...

What is a masculine man?

Cletus
08-06-2016, 04:25 PM
So a real man beats his wife like it says in your bible?

I really hope for your sake, that you are not as stupid as that post made you appear.

zelmo1234
08-06-2016, 04:37 PM
I can't believe that some are just noticing this?

Obama himself is a perfect example of an Emasculated Male. I have never seen such a sissy in a position of power.

It is easy to see why

about 50% of young men are growing up with out a Father in the Home.

Any Male that acts like a male in the school systems are punished and ridiculed.

Even in Sports they are continuing to create rules that make it wimpy. Look at Football, Basketball and Even Baseball

Remember the good old days when you could celebrate a hard hit on a QB or a receiver, now it is a penalty.

The Bad Boy Detroit Pistons would not win a game in the new Girly NBA

And Nolan Ryan would be half the pitcher that he was not being able to brush the batter off the plate.

Kids caught playing Cops and Robbers or Cowboys and Indians today would be put in counseling

And there are groups and organizations trying to put and end to the outdoor and shooting sports.

Do you really wonder why we have a country of Girly men.

My Redhead/Blonde, when asked why she was dating an older man, said that the men that were her age were not men.

zelmo1234
08-06-2016, 04:39 PM
So a real man beats his wife like it says in your bible?

I am going to see a Book and verse where the Bible says it is OK for man to beat his wife???

I can find this, but that seems to be just the opposite.

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

So is dying to protect your Wife considered Beating her by the left now? Things change very quickly with your crowd

NapRover
08-06-2016, 04:41 PM
Trump was not a draft dodger. He had four college deferments and a medical deferment. The OP and the truth are far apart, probably jealous of Donald drawing big crowds and Hillary zilch!
Agree, at Trump's draft age, the war hadn't really started in earnest, there was nothing to dodge, from my view.

zelmo1234
08-06-2016, 04:44 PM
How do you get that? Where has progressivism been in our society? Where is it located? It was taken from funding for public schools back in reagan times. There are NO progressive bills being pushed in congress because the majority of democrats are reagan republicans called neoliberals. Seems to me the emasulcation definition should be explained further by you...

What is a masculine man?

You don't know what Progressivism is do you? Look no further than the ACA, the EPA, Homeland Security

As for what is a Masculine Man I think that General MacArthur Said it best in his Build me a Son prayer

Build me a son, O Lord, who will be strong enough to know when he is weak, and brave enough to face himself when he is afraid, one who will be proud and unbending in honest defeat, and humble and gentle in victory. Douglas MacArthur
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/douglasmac115561.html

Docthehun
08-06-2016, 06:07 PM
Agree, at Trump's draft age, the war hadn't really started in earnest, there was nothing to dodge, from my view.

And certainly he was far from being the only one. "Be the first one on your block to have your boy sent home in a box"

decedent
08-06-2016, 07:43 PM
Agree, at Trump's draft age, the war hadn't really started in earnest, there was nothing to dodge, from my view.

He got five deferments -- one for each year he avoided the draft.

Bethere
08-06-2016, 08:00 PM
Agree, at Trump's draft age, the war hadn't really started in earnest, there was nothing to dodge, from my view.

Trump's almost 70, so our patriotic great American hero would have turned 18 in 1964. He would have gotten deferments in 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, and 1968--the height of the war.

Consider your argument crushed.

15631

birddog
08-06-2016, 08:18 PM
Again, deferments are valid and not "dodging" the draft. A real draft dodger would be someone like Slick Willie, or those who shot themselves in the foot, or those who went to Canada.

Bethere
08-06-2016, 08:25 PM
Again, deferments are valid and not "dodging" the draft. A real draft dodger would be someone like Slick Willie, or those who shot themselves in the foot, or those who went to Canada.

Meet rugged individualist patriotic american Republican hero, ted Nugent:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/nugent.asp

On one hand you say clinton is a draft dodger and on the other you say that deferments are cool.

You, sir, are tripping hard.

birddog
08-06-2016, 09:54 PM
Meet rugged individualist patriotic american Republican hero, ted Nugent:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/nugent.asp

On one hand you say clinton is a draft dodger and on the other you say that deferments are cool.

You, sir, are tripping hard.

I said deferments are valid, not cool. Read much? Clinton was definitely a draft dodger, so were many others including Nugent.

I was drafted in 1966, I thought the Vietnam war was political and stupid, but I knew that what was going on with dodging was not right. By the way, try not to talk down to your obvious betters!

Peter1469
08-06-2016, 10:15 PM
How do you get that? Where has progressivism been in our society? Where is it located? It was taken from funding for public schools back in reagan times. There are NO progressive bills being pushed in congress because the majority of democrats are reagan republicans called neoliberals. Seems to me the emasulcation definition should be explained further by you...

What is a masculine man?

If you have to ask, you ain't one.

And that bit about neoliberals is nonsense.

zelmo1234
08-06-2016, 10:24 PM
Meet rugged individualist patriotic american Republican hero, ted Nugent:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/nugent.asp

On one hand you say clinton is a draft dodger and on the other you say that deferments are cool.

You, sir, are tripping hard.

Slick Will skipped the country on his, He did not honor the agreement that he made.

Remember it was the Democrats that were Spitting on the Vietnam Vets as they returned home. It is very clear how they view those that fight and die for the country.

Bethere
08-06-2016, 10:25 PM
I said deferments are valid, not cool. Read much? Clinton was definitely a draft dodger, so were many others including Nugent.

I was drafted in 1966, I thought the Vietnam war was political and stupid, but I knew that what was going on with dodging was not right. By the way, try not to talk down to your obvious betters!

You can't make the case that Clinton was a draft dodger and give trump a pass at the same time without being a hypocrite.

Bethere
08-06-2016, 10:29 PM
Slick Will skipped the country on his, He did not honor the agreement that he made.

Remember it was the Democrats that were Spitting on the Vietnam Vets as they returned home. It is very clear how they view those that fight and die for the country.

He didn't skip the country, Clinton--also an elite fullbright scholar--won an extremely prestigious Rhodes scholarship.

Trump's was just another student deferment.

zelmo1234
08-06-2016, 10:40 PM
He didn't skip the country, Clinton--also an elite fullbright scholar--won an extremely prestigious Rhodes scholarship.

Trump's was just another student deferment.

Did Trump do anything illegal???

If he did then Shame on Him.

Bill Clinton did not Honor his commitment to the ROTC and the military he stayed Some say that it is a Felony, I would have to defer to those that know that system more

Bethere
08-06-2016, 11:10 PM
Did Trump do anything illegal???

If he did then Shame on Him.

Bill Clinton did not Honor his commitment to the ROTC and the military he stayed Some say that it is a Felony, I would have to defer to those that know that system more

I am unimpressed with your commitment to due process. There is nothing in either bill or Hillary's criminal records. If they weren't public figures they could throw you and your evil misguided party in jail for libel, slander, and defamation of character.

Subdermal
08-07-2016, 12:50 AM
So a real man beats his wife like it says in your bible?

Yes Slob.

Because that's the only alternative to what Cletus describes.

:facepalm:

Subdermal
08-07-2016, 12:51 AM
How do you get that? Where has progressivism been in our society? Where is it located? It was taken from funding for public schools back in reagan times. There are NO progressive bills being pushed in congress because the majority of democrats are reagan republicans called neoliberals. Seems to me the emasulcation definition should be explained further by you...

:facepalm:


What is a masculine man?

If you have to ask...

debbietoo
08-07-2016, 11:42 AM
They have supplements and diets to leach excess estrogen from men.



Research it. You need it.

What kind of lowlife response is that to a thoughtful and provocative post? Perhaps you should get therapy for anger issues?

NapRover
08-07-2016, 02:53 PM
Trump's almost 70, so our patriotic great American hero would have turned 18 in 1964. He would have gotten deferments in 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, and 1968--the height of the war.

Consider your argument crushed.

You're right, I thought he is near 74 now. My bad.

15631

MisterVeritis
08-07-2016, 03:49 PM
So a real man beats his wife like it says in your bible?
Kook Alert! A new suspect...

Bethere
08-07-2016, 04:14 PM
Watch what you say, Pete. He could do a Bo-4 and go whining to the Mods about getting sand in his vagina.
I think women rock. My admiration for them causes me to ask why in your view being a woman would be such a contemptible thing?

Cletus
08-07-2016, 04:17 PM
I think women rock. My admiration for them causes me to ask why in your view being a woman would be such a contemptible thing?

I never said it would be.

Your posts led me to believe you were a woman. Maybe you just wish you were.

maineman
08-07-2016, 04:25 PM
I said deferments are valid, not cool. Read much? Clinton was definitely a draft dodger, so were many others including Nugent.

I was drafted in 1966, I thought the Vietnam war was political and stupid, but I knew that what was going on with dodging was not right. By the way, try not to talk down to your obvious betters!

so... did you spend any time in country?

Bethere
08-07-2016, 04:29 PM
I never said it would be.

Your posts led me to believe you were a woman. Maybe you just wish you were.

If I were, would that be a contemptible thing?

Cletus
08-07-2016, 05:25 PM
If I were, would that be a contemptible thing?

Being a woman is not a contemptible thing. You however, would probably be a contemptible woman.

Peter1469
08-07-2016, 05:26 PM
Being a woman is not a contemptible thing. You however, would probably be a contemptible woman.

She is a lib. But that is not contemptible. She seems nice enough.

Bethere
08-07-2016, 06:21 PM
I never said it would be.

Your posts led me to believe you were a woman. Maybe you just wish you were.

And, again, if I were? Would that be bad?

Common
08-07-2016, 06:24 PM
I never said it would be.

Your posts led me to believe you were a woman. Maybe you just wish you were.

I thought he was female also, but who knows and I really dont care

Peter1469
08-08-2016, 04:52 AM
Don't eat GMO foods. No soy.

That will man you up. The OP is an example of a man with estrogen poisoning.

maineman
08-08-2016, 07:06 AM
And, again, if I were? Would that be bad?

ya know.... I think a lot has to do with your screen name. I read it and see two words, BE and THERE. Others - mostly on the right, it seems, concentrate on the first four letters and think your name is BETH. ;)

midcan5
08-08-2016, 09:04 AM
I'm not seeing any good counterpoints, only the usual no, you are. I still ask how Americans can follow this man. When I have time I'll review other comments - only so much time.

A few replies:

Peter1469, estrogen? I hadn't thought of that? Has it helped you?

Subdermal, egads, the usual rhetorical tactic of taking words out of context. The point holds, and this link shows it in spite of your 'card' arguments - empty rhetoric. http://nyti.ms/2b2UjMV

FindersKeepers, Can't you guys think in a single paragraph? Feminized? Ironic kinda, whenever men mention feminism, it is a sure sign they are insecure men. You may not be that, but it is an irrelvant point. Only content matters.

Common, LOL, you can't be!

Cletus, funny as I sometimes agree as I usually fine writing by women not to my taste. My wife calls me a chauvinist. Although if you want to read a book by a women that will blow your mind read: 'One of Us: The Story of Anders Breivik and the Massacre in Norway' By Asne Seierstad. Translated by Sarah Death. It reminds me of the right wing here in America and even Trump fans. Highly recommended reading. Read it.

Birddog, NapRover, Trump was a draft dodger - I've only met one man in my life, a friend who admits getting a doctor to give him a reason not to serve. Trump did same. Lots did. Imagine a draft today? The idea of serving your country went out with the ascent of the spoiled upper classes. When I mention service should be required, as they do in other nations, the tears well up. Pampers anyone.

Bob the Slob, agreed for some, but shouldn't the message matter? And I agree with you next comment.

Zelmo1234, Odd comments, I do see a kind of spoiled class, but that is among the wealthy and it is usually about economics and fantasy-land libertarian nonsense. You forget the flower children and hippies, were they soft? Not really. And consider drug use today, escapism. And while some gay and artist types may appear girly to you tough guys, so what. To each his own. I seen some pretty tough acting men run scared when confronted and some girly men stand their ground. But it would be an interesting area for discussion. Manly men all stand. LOL Zelmo I'd stay away from the Bible.

Be back to see if there are any real challenges. Me Tarzan, you guys, kinda Jane like. Sorry couldn't resist. Beat your chest now boys.


PS I do want to get into the more serious consideration of change and seeing Trump clearly.

Cletus
08-08-2016, 09:16 AM
ya know.... I think a lot has to do with your screen name. I read it and see two words, BE and THERE. Others - mostly on the right, it seems, concentrate on the first four letters and think your name is BETH. ;)

It has nothing to do with its screen name.

debbietoo
08-08-2016, 09:21 AM
I'm not seeing any good counterpoints, only the usual no, you are. I still ask how Americans can follow this man. When I have time I'll review other comments - only so much time.

A few replies:


Peter1469, estrogen? I hadn't thought of that? Has it helped you?

Subdermal, egads, the usual rhetorical tactic of taking words out of context. The point holds, and this link shows it in spite of your 'card' arguments - empty rhetoric. http://nyti.ms/2b2UjMV

FindersKeepers, Can't you guys think in a single paragraph? Feminized? Ironic kinda, whenever men mention feminism, it is a sure sign they are insecure men. You may not be that, but it is an irrelvant point. Only content matters.

Common, LOL, you can't be!

Cletus, funny as I sometimes agree as I usually fine writing by women not to my taste. My wife calls me a chauvinist. Although if you want to read a book by a women that will blow your mind read: 'One of Us: The Story of Anders Breivik and the Massacre in Norway' By Asne Seierstad. Translated by Sarah Death. It reminds me of the right wing here in America and even Trump fans. Highly recommended reading. Read it.

Birddog, NapRover, Trump was a draft dodger - I've only met one man in my life, a friend who admits getting a doctor to give him a reason not to serve. Trump did same. Lots did. Imagine a draft today? The idea of serving your country went out with the ascent of the spoiled upper classes. When I mention service should be required, as they do in other nations, the tears well up. Pampers anyone.

Bob the Slob, agreed for some, but shouldn't the message matter? And I agree with you next comment.

Zelmo1234, Odd comments, I do see a kind of spoiled class, but that is among the wealthy and it is usually about economics and fantasy-land libertarian nonsense. You forget the flower children and hippies, were they soft? Not really. And consider drug use today, escapism. And while some gay and artist types may appear girly to you tough guys, so what. To each his own. I seen some pretty tough acting men run scared when confronted and some girly men stand their ground. But it would be an interesting area for discussion. Manly men all stand. LOL Zelmo I'd stay away from the Bible.

Be back to see if there are any real challenges. Me Tarzan, you guys, kinda Jane like. Sorry couldn't resist. Beat your chest now boys.


PS I do want to get into the more serious consideration of change and seeing Trump clearly.

The GOP or republican party has completely gone so far to the right they are off the spectrum so to speak. They want to go back to the "dark ages", in my opinion.

They have not picked a qualified candidate to run for President in years, and, frankly, I'm glad. Ever since the Bush administration, I have moved to the left politically. My parents were republicans and I always thought I was a republican too, until the Bush administration. I never even voted until then. When Kerry ran for President against Bush, that was the first time I voted as a democrat. I know that election was rigged via the "red voting machine". I saw a documentary about a woman in Washington state who proved it. There was a secret program inside those red voting machines that switched votes from democrat to republican. The exit polls showed Kerry was winning in Florida. It was rigged in favor of Bush! If you want I can find the links to some articles regarding that rigged election.

2004 Voting Controversies from Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_election_voting_controversies

2004 Election Fraud:

https://ratical.org/ratville/2004Waldman.html#p3

Cletus
08-08-2016, 09:25 AM
The GOP or republican party has completely gone so far to the right they are off the spectrum so to speak. They want to go back to the "dark ages", in my opinion.

They have not picked a qualified candidate to run for President in years, and, frankly, I'm glad. Ever since the Bush administration, I have moved to the left politically. My parents were republicans and I always thought I was a republican too, until the Bush administration. I never even voted until then. When Kerry ran for President against Bush, that was the first time I voted as a democrat. I know that election was rigged via the "red voting machine". I saw a documentary about a woman in Washington state who proved it. There was a secret program inside those red voting machines that switched votes from democrat to republican. The exit polls showed Kerry was winning in Florida. It was rigged in favor of Bush! If you want I can find the links to some articles regarding that rigged election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVSRm80WzZk

nic34
08-08-2016, 09:26 AM
Remember it was the Democrats that were Spitting on the Vietnam Vets as they returned home.

Democrats? Linky maybe zel.

FindersKeepers
08-08-2016, 09:27 AM
I know that election was rigged via the "red voting machine". I saw a documentary about a woman in Washington state who proved it. There was a secret program inside those red voting machines that switched votes from democrat to republican. The exit polls showed Kerry was winning in Florida. It was rigged in favor of Bush! If you want I can find the links to some articles regarding that rigged election.



Conspiracy theories like this are damaging to everyone, and especially to the nation's integrity. Despite numerous "claims," there has never been any real evidence of election rigging.

Trump just made a similar claim and Obama (rightly) told him the idea of a rigged election was "ridiculous."

debbietoo
08-08-2016, 09:53 AM
I'm sorry, but there was a documentary I saw awhile back where a lady in Washington state actually proved it. They punched the button for Kerry on the machine and printed out the paper. It showed "Bush"!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/6/16/1100628/-It-s-the-Voting-Machines-Not-the-Voters

Kerry actually won that 2004 election.

NapRover
08-08-2016, 10:11 AM
I'm not seeing any good counterpoints, only the usual no, you are. I still ask how Americans can follow this man. When I have time I'll review other comments - only so much time.

A few replies:

Peter1469, estrogen? I hadn't thought of that? Has it helped you?

Subdermal, egads, the usual rhetorical tactic of taking words out of context. The point holds, and this link shows it in spite of your 'card' arguments - empty rhetoric. http://nyti.ms/2b2UjMV

FindersKeepers, Can't you guys think in a single paragraph? Feminized? Ironic kinda, whenever men mention feminism, it is a sure sign they are insecure men. You may not be that, but it is an irrelvant point. Only content matters.

Common, LOL, you can't be!

Cletus, funny as I sometimes agree as I usually fine writing by women not to my taste. My wife calls me a chauvinist. Although if you want to read a book by a women that will blow your mind read: 'One of Us: The Story of Anders Breivik and the Massacre in Norway' By Asne Seierstad. Translated by Sarah Death. It reminds me of the right wing here in America and even Trump fans. Highly recommended reading. Read it.

Birddog, NapRover, Trump was a draft dodger - I've only met one man in my life, a friend who admits getting a doctor to give him a reason not to serve. Trump did same. Lots did. Imagine a draft today? The idea of serving your country went out with the ascent of the spoiled upper classes. When I mention service should be required, as they do in other nations, the tears well up. Pampers anyone.

Bob the Slob, agreed for some, but shouldn't the message matter? And I agree with you next comment.

Zelmo1234, Odd comments, I do see a kind of spoiled class, but that is among the wealthy and it is usually about economics and fantasy-land libertarian nonsense. You forget the flower children and hippies, were they soft? Not really. And consider drug use today, escapism. And while some gay and artist types may appear girly to you tough guys, so what. To each his own. I seen some pretty tough acting men run scared when confronted and some girly men stand their ground. But it would be an interesting area for discussion. Manly men all stand. LOL Zelmo I'd stay away from the Bible.

Be back to see if there are any real challenges. Me Tarzan, you guys, kinda Jane like. Sorry couldn't resist. Beat your chest now boys.


PS I do want to get into the more serious consideration of change and seeing Trump clearly.

I'll say this: the last thing I wanted to do was go to Viet Nam. I didn't serve, just left it up to the draft, which spared me. To the left, "draft dodgers" (those who fled to Canada or elsewhere) were considered heroes at the time. Deferments for any reason weren't considered dodging. That's a term used by the left today to smear any on the right who got deferments. Millions and millions got deferments, they're not dodgers. The left (Carter) pardoned draft dodgers, for right or wrong. Why won't they pardon those who never committed a crime at all?

midcan5
08-08-2016, 12:44 PM
My point still remains what is the appeal of this man who talks in slogans? Who counter punches like a twelve year old, and seems to really know nothing?

Zelmo1234, most of the vets I know think the spitting thing is myth. After My Lai etcetera could someone have done it? Maybe. I traveled lots during those times in uniform as we flew standby and never once encountered any opposition. Got help often running for a plane after being bumped. But let's get real about the human soul, look at the hate directed at our president and Hillary sometime and explain that. Humans ain't nice nothing new there. Ever see who God hates? Mirrors are so hard for some people.

Bethere, Exactly. This is the equivalency comeback, in math it is, two wrongs make my wrong right. It is dominate among conservatives and republicans.

Debbietoo, thanks Deb, that's the usual one sentence response, explains a lot. Welcome aboard.

Nic, One view of spitting is below. But I wouldn't doubt some wacko didn't spit on a soldier, crazies are everywhere, but like so much else it was blown out of proportion if it happened?

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Did_protesters_spit_050803.htm

" Jerry Lembcke, an associate professor of sociology at Holy Cross and a Vietnam combat veteran, has written a well documented book, "The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam" (New York University Press, 1998) that thoroughly debunks the tales of protesters "spitting upon" Vietnam vets. Lembcke conducted extensive research to ascertain that there were no contemporaneous news reports or police complaints lodged to substantiate the claims that began appearing in the media about 1991. The perpetuation of such myths only blocks the healing of Vietnam veterans from our "culture of victimization," and it serves the agenda of those pro-war forces who place fear and intimidation in the path of open debate on the pressing issues of the moment."


"Something is profoundly wrong with the way we live today. For thirty years we have made a virtue out of the pursuit of material self-interest: indeed, this very pursuit now constitutes whatever remains of our sense of collective purpose. We know what things cost but have no idea what they are worth. We no longer ask of a judicial ruling or a legislative act: is it good? Is it fair? Is it just? Is it right? Will it help bring about a better society or a better world? Those used to be the political questions, even if they invited no easy answers. We must learn once again to pose them." Tony Judt 'Ill Fares the Land'

Bethere
08-08-2016, 12:52 PM
ya know.... I think a lot has to do with your screen name. I read it and see two words, BE and THERE. Others - mostly on the right, it seems, concentrate on the first four letters and think your name is BETH. ;)


Beth Eyre? Kind of like Bronte's Jane?

Chloe
08-08-2016, 12:57 PM
I think a lot of it regarding "emasculated males" is that they aren't becoming more feminine or weak or anything like that but are just able to be more of themselves without feeling societal pressure to be a certain way that previous generations expected a man to be like.

Subdermal
08-08-2016, 01:10 PM
I think a lot of it regarding "emasculated males" is that they aren't becoming more feminine or weak or anything like that but are just able to be more of themselves without feeling societal pressure to be a certain way that previous generations expected a man to be like.

Men are not naturally women.

Chloe
08-08-2016, 01:12 PM
Men are not naturally women.

So don't become one

ripmeister
08-08-2016, 03:36 PM
One of my favorite movies of all time is The Big Country. Charleton Heston and Gregory Peck. I'll bet a lot of the big dogs on here would have liked Chuck Hestons character. :rollseyes:

ripmeister
08-08-2016, 03:40 PM
"Something is profoundly wrong with the way we live today. For thirty years we have made a virtue out of the pursuit of material self-interest: indeed, this very pursuit now constitutes whatever remains of our sense of collective purpose. We know what things cost but have no idea what they are worth. We no longer ask of a judicial ruling or a legislative act: is it good? Is it fair? Is it just? Is it right? Will it help bring about a better society or a better world? Those used to be the political questions, even if they invited no easy answers. We must learn once again to pose them." Tony Judt 'Ill Fares the Land'

I have hope that this is changing. With all the heat the millenials take these days I think they have a perspective about what is important in life that doesn't buy into the consumerism of the past few decades. They look at someone like Trump and just laugh at his lack of insight. Of course some celebrate the Trumpian ideal at any cost.

Oboe
08-08-2016, 04:40 PM
15668

Bethere
08-08-2016, 05:08 PM
15668

15672

Bethere
08-08-2016, 05:12 PM
I have hope that this is changing. With all the heat the millenials take these days I think they have a perspective about what is important in life that doesn't buy into the consumerism of the past few decades. They look at someone like Trump and just laugh at his lack of insight. Of course some celebrate the Trumpian ideal at any cost.

Nice post, sir. T'is good to see another refugee!

Peter1469
08-08-2016, 05:13 PM
The GOP or republican party has completely gone so far to the right they are off the spectrum so to speak. They want to go back to the "dark ages", in my opinion.

They have not picked a qualified candidate to run for President in years, and, frankly, I'm glad. Ever since the Bush administration, I have moved to the left politically. My parents were republicans and I always thought I was a republican too, until the Bush administration. I never even voted until then. When Kerry ran for President against Bush, that was the first time I voted as a democrat. I know that election was rigged via the "red voting machine". I saw a documentary about a woman in Washington state who proved it. There was a secret program inside those red voting machines that switched votes from democrat to republican. The exit polls showed Kerry was winning in Florida. It was rigged in favor of Bush! If you want I can find the links to some articles regarding that rigged election.

2004 Voting Controversies from Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_election_voting_controversies

2004 Election Fraud:

https://ratical.org/ratville/2004Waldman.html#p3

The GOP has moved left. More government.

Oboe
08-08-2016, 05:16 PM
15672

Chickens don't vote, unless they are from Mexico. Or dead.

Peter1469
08-08-2016, 05:17 PM
15672


What about Blacks who vote democrat and get nothing for it? The welfare state and abortion has done far more damage than slavery ever did.

Bethere
08-08-2016, 05:19 PM
Chickens don't vote, unless they are from Mexico. Or dead.

15673

Bethere
08-08-2016, 05:20 PM
What about Blacks who vote democrat and get nothing for it? The welfare state and abortion has done far more damage than slavery ever did.

Re: your obfuscation.

15674

Peter1469
08-08-2016, 05:26 PM
Re: your obfuscation.

15674

When they wake up and stop voting (D) you will be out of political power.

Oboe
08-08-2016, 05:31 PM
I have hope that this is changing. With all the heat the millenials take these days I think they have a perspective about what is important in life that doesn't buy into the consumerism of the past few decades. They look at someone like Trump and just laugh at his lack of insight. Of course some celebrate the Trumpian ideal at any cost.

Millennials and insight? LOL! Most of those kids haven't got a clue that they don't get off CNN.

Docthehun
08-08-2016, 06:46 PM
When they wake up and stop voting (D) you will be out of political power.

This is what it will take.

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2006/Macgee/Web%20Project/dynamite_blast.jpg

maineman
08-08-2016, 06:47 PM
When they wake up and stop voting (D) you will be out of political power.

cuz evahbody know dat dem negroes is jes some lazy, sleepy kinda folks, ain't dat right?

Peter1469
08-08-2016, 06:51 PM
cuz evahbody know dat dem negroes is jes some lazy, sleepy kinda folks, ain't dat right?

I refuse that - it is your team that think the darkies are too goddamn stupid to figure out what an ID is. Racist pos. The entire party.

Blacks are full humans. They can get IDs on their own. They can think for themselves. The Democratic party is racist trash.

maineman
08-08-2016, 06:58 PM
I refuse that - it is your team that think the darkies are too goddamn stupid to figure out what an ID is. Racist pos. The entire party.

Blacks are full humans. They can get IDs on their own. They can think for themselves. The Democratic party is racist trash.

dem negroes is asleep.... according to YOU, not me.

Peter1469
08-08-2016, 06:59 PM
dem negroes is asleep.... according to YOU, not me.

No. I hold them as equals.

The dems don't.

Subdermal
08-08-2016, 07:00 PM
So don't become one

I'm not a millennial. They're seriously at risk.

Subdermal
08-08-2016, 07:06 PM
15673

Teensy problem with your meme.

You are using an example of private charity. It isn't a picture of Jesus petitioning Caesar to use taxpayer money to feed people.

Peter1469
08-08-2016, 07:07 PM
trash anyhow

Subdermal
08-08-2016, 07:09 PM
Re: your obfuscation.

15674

Can you explain why you think Pete's post is obfuscation, but your post wasn't?

Peter1469
08-08-2016, 07:18 PM
a pos
ignore it

Bethere
08-08-2016, 07:39 PM
Can you explain why you think Pete's post is obfuscation, but your post wasn't?

Sure, he changed the subject--classic, text book obfuscation.

Subdermal
08-08-2016, 07:47 PM
15672


Sure, he changed the subject--classic, text book obfuscation.

So then you did it first, correct?

Bethere
08-08-2016, 07:55 PM
So then you did it first, correct?

Way to go! "I know you are but what I am I" is always obfuscation.

Subdermal
08-08-2016, 08:06 PM
Way to go! "I know you are but what I am I" is always obfuscation.

Actually, that sentence is the stumbling, bumbling bubbleheaded stupidity of a busted hypocrite.

Mister D
08-08-2016, 08:17 PM
I have hope that this is changing. With all the heat the millenials take these days I think they have a perspective about what is important in life that doesn't buy into the consumerism of the past few decades. They look at someone like Trump and just laugh at his lack of insight. Of course some celebrate the Trumpian ideal at any cost.

I'm sorry but...:laugh:

Common
08-08-2016, 09:00 PM
I'm sorry but...:laugh:

Dont be sorry

debbietoo
08-09-2016, 09:09 AM
I have hope that this is changing. With all the heat the millenials take these days I think they have a perspective about what is important in life that doesn't buy into the consumerism of the past few decades. They look at someone like Trump and just laugh at his lack of insight. Of course some celebrate the Trumpian ideal at any cost.

Wow, what a great post! I totally agree. Young people have great insight about what is going on today. They know our government doesn't work for the majority of working class Americans. I believe the capitalist really is in the driver's seat, as Soros would say. We need more government regulation on corporations and/or market fundamentalism because, in essence, they are the ruling class!

Oboe
08-09-2016, 10:02 AM
Most young people today cannot find there ass with both hands unless mommy or daddy leads them to it. These are the idiots that want everything for free.

silvereyes
08-09-2016, 10:19 AM
Again, deferments are valid and not "dodging" the draft. A real draft dodger would be someone like Slick Willie, or those who shot themselves in the foot, or those who went to Canada.

Lol...he got college deferrements as well. Whats the difference? They knew where he was.

silvereyes
08-09-2016, 10:25 AM
I'll say this: the last thing I wanted to do was go to Viet Nam. I didn't serve, just left it up to the draft, which spared me. To the left, "draft dodgers" (those who fled to Canada or elsewhere) were considered heroes at the time. Deferments for any reason weren't considered dodging. That's a term used by the left today to smear any on the right who got deferments. Millions and millions got deferments, they're not dodgers. The left (Carter) pardoned draft dodgers, for right or wrong. Why won't they pardon those who never committed a crime at all?

Um, wanna let the ones calling Bill a draft dodger slide, huh? Not surprised.

Bethere
08-09-2016, 10:26 AM
Most young people today cannot find there ass with both hands unless mommy or daddy leads them to it. These are the idiots that want everything for free.

"Their."

There isn't a possessive pronoun. Their is.

Grab THAT with both hands.

silvereyes
08-09-2016, 10:27 AM
I refuse that - it is your team that think the darkies are too goddamn stupid to figure out what an ID is. Racist pos. The entire party.

Blacks are full humans. They can get IDs on their own. They can think for themselves. The Democratic party is racist trash.

*ahem*

maineman
08-09-2016, 10:30 AM
No. I hold them as equals.

The dems don't.

you were the one who said they needed to "wake up", not me. I believe they are already fully awake. Either stand by your statements or retract them.

Chris
08-09-2016, 10:31 AM
"Their."

There isn't a possessive pronoun. Their is.

Grab THAT with both hands.


Gertrude Stein once wrote of Oakland CA: "Their is no their their."

Common
08-09-2016, 10:38 AM
Lol...he got college deferrements as well. Whats the difference? They knew where he was.

Bill Clintons letter to the head of the Reserve Uniit he was in regarding the Draft, it is my understanding he got no college deferment he had been registered in the reserves and called to duty.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/blank.gif
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/draft0.gif
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/blank.gif [Note: After the draft letter, below, there is a transcript of a February 1992 Nightline program in which then-Governor Bill Clinton discusses the controversial draft letter with Ted Koppel.] "Dear Colonel Holmes,
I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have had to have some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to England I have thought about writing, about what I want to and ought to say. First, I want to thank you, not just for saving me from the draft, but for being so kind and decent to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One thing which made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me, about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought me more fit for the draft than for ROTC. Let me try to explain.
As you know, I worked for two years in a very minor position on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the salary, but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter lightly, but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did. I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine. After I left Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans here for demonstrations here October 15th and November 16th.



http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/videob_lefttop.gif
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/blank.gif


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/blank.gif
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/blank.gif
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/blank.gif
After one week of answering questions about allegations of draft-dodging and one week before the New Hampshire primary, a letter surfaces in which a young Bill Clinton thanks a colonel for "saving me from the draft."Clinton defends the letter and questions the motives of his accusers. (2/12/92)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/blank.gif
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/blank.gif
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/blank.gif


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/videob_leftbot.gifhttp://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/videob_leftb1.gif (http://play.rbn.com/?url=swave/abc/g2demand/clintonyears/draft_pc_hi.rm&proto=rtsp)http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/videob_leftb2.gif (http://play.rbn.com/?url=swave/abc/g2demand/clintonyears/draft_pc_lo.rm&proto=rtsp)


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/blank.gif


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/art/blank.gif


Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar at Georgetown I wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not simply to, quote, participation in war in any form, end quote. From my work I came to believe that the draft system itself is illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war which, in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the nation. The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the people collectively was at stake. Individuals had to fight if the nation was to survive, for the lives of their countrymen and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea, an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.
Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe die for their country, that is, the particular policy of a particular government, right or wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a letter which I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year. One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is considered a criminal is an obscenity.
The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years (the society may be corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all finished anyway).
When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way left in which I could possibly, but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and resistance. Going on with my education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School, because there is nothing else I can do. In fact, I would like to have been able to take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law school or graduate school and how to be putting what I have learned to use. But the particulars of my personal life are not nearly as important to me as the principles involved.
After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in the ROTC program in itself and all I seemed to have done was to protect myself from physical harm. Also, I began to think I had deceived you, not by lies - there were none - but by failing to tell you all the things I'm writing now. I doubt that I had the mental coherence to articulate them then. At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1 - D deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of self-regard and self-confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally on September 12th, I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking him for trying to help me in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as possible.
I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it on me every day until I got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I didn't see, in the end, how my going in the Army and maybe going to Vietnam would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something of this second year of my Rhodes scholarship.
And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find themselves still loving their country but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted years, lifetimes, of the best service you could give. To many of us, it is no longer clear what is service and what is disservice, or if it is clear, the conclusion is likely to be illegal. Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Colonel Jones for me. Merry Christmas.
Sincerely,
Bill Clinton"


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/clinton/etc/draftletter.html

nic34
08-09-2016, 12:33 PM
Democrats? Linky maybe zel.

I didn't think so..... more GOPer urban mythology....

MisterVeritis
08-09-2016, 02:46 PM
Wow, what a great post! I totally agree. Young people have great insight about what is going on today. They know our government doesn't work for the majority of working class Americans. I believe the capitalist really is in the driver's seat, as Soros would say. We need more government regulation on corporations and/or market fundamentalism because, in essence, they are the ruling class!
When did you begin to suspect you were a radical Marxist? Or do you prefer to think of yourself as a fascist?

jimmyz
08-09-2016, 03:31 PM
He didn't skip the country, Clinton--also an elite fullbright scholar--won an extremely prestigious Rhodes scholarship.

Trump's was just another student deferment.

How many lefties in this thread have served? Maybe 0%. The lefties degrading people using deferments would be the first one's in line looking for a deferment in wartime. The left are insufferable cowards and always have been. Unless said lefties were in politically powerful positions. Then they are all too willing to send someone else to die in their wars.

Bethere
08-09-2016, 07:17 PM
How many lefties in this thread have served? Maybe 0%. The lefties degrading people using deferments would be the first one's in line looking for a deferment in wartime. The left are insufferable cowards and always have been. Unless said lefties were in politically powerful positions. Then they are all too willing to send someone else to die in their wars.

Do you want to see a list of Republican chicken hawks?

Just let me know.

Peter1469
08-09-2016, 07:44 PM
that is insanity.

Bethere
08-09-2016, 07:51 PM
My point still remains what is the appeal of this man who talks in slogans? Who counter punches like a twelve year old, and seems to really know nothing?


http://www.poetry-archive.com/a_pic.gifND did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the Countenance Divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear!
O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

debbietoo
08-10-2016, 08:37 AM
Do you want to see a list of Republican chicken hawks?

Just let me know.

What is a "RINO"? I see it all the time on boards and don't know what it means!

Subdermal
08-10-2016, 08:38 AM
What is a "RINO"? I see it all the time on boards and don't know what it means!

Republican In Name Only.

Subdermal
08-10-2016, 08:44 AM
I have hope that this is changing. With all the heat the millenials take these days I think they have a perspective about what is important in life that doesn't buy into the consumerism of the past few decades. They look at someone like Trump and just laugh at his lack of insight. Of course some celebrate the Trumpian ideal at any cost.

What effect on the psychology of the young do you think seeing real estate values crater - as a result of free market manipulation from Government - have?

What did the effect of watching the rapidly shrinking net worth of their parents have?

midcan5
12-13-2016, 02:45 PM
Watching Trump's bizarre and ridiculous claim that millions voted illegally has demonstrated how emasculated the republican party is today. Both Pence and Ryan were unable to dispute Trump's nonsense in even a diplomatic way. White males in America have become so emasculated a woman president scared them so it was interesting to check out this women's tweets. Link below. Now that whites kowtow to the ridiculous preachings of their savior maybe women will now step forward and tell it like it is as the male of the species looks up to their hero.

http://news.groopspeak.com/a-woman-just-stood-up-to-trumps-latest-outburst-on-twitter-and-america-is-cheering-her-on/

Captain Obvious
12-13-2016, 02:55 PM
Real men aren't trolls and partison hacks

Common Sense
12-13-2016, 02:56 PM
Real men aren't trolls and partison hacks

Midcan isn't a troll or a hack. "Partison" or otherwise.

Captain Obvious
12-13-2016, 02:58 PM
Midcan isn't a troll or a hack. "Partison" or otherwise.

Android, give me a break.

Midcan doesn't possess a fiber of impartiality and he copies/pastes most of this crap.

Common Sense
12-13-2016, 03:01 PM
Android, give me a break.

Midcan doesn't possess a fiber of impartiality and he copies/pastes most of this crap.

The OP isn't a copy paste and neither was his last post. You just gloss over it and dismiss it. That's on you...not him.

Captain Obvious
12-13-2016, 03:03 PM
The OP isn't a copy paste and neither was his last post. You just gloss over it and dismiss it. That's on you...not him.

Thanks for your opinion.

Common Sense
12-13-2016, 03:04 PM
Thanks for your opinion.

Thanks for nuthin...


;)

Captain Obvious
12-13-2016, 03:06 PM
Thanks for nuthin...


;)

One mans wisdom is another fools folly.

Capt O

donttread
12-14-2016, 05:47 AM
I am watching the screaming crowd at a Trump rally, I am asking why. A purple heart veteran gives a medal to a draft dodger who promises greatness. Google 'the emasculated American male' and you will get 634,000 hits. What is it about a man that I perceive as a insecure narcissist that gives hope to so many?


Harvard professor and Manliness author Harvey C. Mansfield, 'We are attracted to the manly man because he imparts some of his confidence to everyone else.' Maybe so, but I do not see Donald Trump as a manly man, if anything he seems the son of the pampered upper class. Those born to wealth, who cannot imagine poverty's world. He will not even release his tax forms.


A few of the links in my Google search came from conservative sites and were dated after Barack Obama's election. Did the accomplishment of a Black man fuel this sense of powerlessness? Democrats have lost the white vote since Civil Rights legislation. Is this fear and need born of a deep seated racism.


Witness the hatred of Hillary. Today it is email and Benghazi, but do they forget the witch images from her husband's presidency. Is fear and need born too of misogyny. A woman demonized by republicans for so long. Add in immigration, Mexicans, Muslims, where do you place them.


Certain themes dominate, they get it all, freeloaders, the system is rigged, we are a Christian nation, it's the liberal media, words come to form meaning, thinking is absent, thought is absent. When Trump loses in November it will be because it is a rigged system, and the false narrative will continue. Some will believe. Republicans have engaged in these whistle words for sixty years, someone finally took them up. Their appeal has backfired. Republicans were complicit in a creation they now question.


Hitler references are used too often so now one cannot make comparisons. I will make America great again. I will do this. The crowd cheers, and we will be safe again, and strong again. I will have your back, we will keep them out, we will throw them out, they have to go, the crowd chants, signs waves, slogans work on this audience. Nationalism is a double edged sword.


And why does the American, a person who lives in one of the greatest nations feel they need a savior, a powerful man to lead them to some promised land? Trump praises Putin, is a Russia dictator what they want, a strong leader to makes their wrongs right?


The question becomes when did Americans become so weak they needed someone to lead them? What happened to the free individual, the cowboy image, the creators, the proud American, the laborer, and the made in America. What happened to the nation that won all the important battles? What changed?


Essentially ultra libs have all but made it illegal to be male and while women can be strong they can only be" opinionated" if their opinions match the herd. Part of the reason the millenials are such huge whine assess.

midcan5
06-06-2018, 07:24 AM
If I copy anything it will be in quotes and sourced. I will also add author to quotes if author is known, there are times when quotes have no author but I will still enclose in quotes. Liberals are honest and think for themselves, it is part of our DNA.

I return to this thread because of a few items i read recently. 'Is politics driven by pragmatic self-interest or by identities and ideals? The self-harming voter offers a clue'

"Successful challengers will also need to come up with narratives that help to reshape peoples’ worldviews and identities."

https://aeon.co/essays/how-do-elites-manage-to-hijack-voters-ideas-of-themselvesKim

I often mention this book and when I came across the Youtube I wanted to share. Phillips-Fein: "Invisible Hands" Many of the most astute writers today in America are women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-L-gloXroE
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-L-gloXroEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K6g81hgGhE)

And the NFL distraction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K6g81hgGhE

DGUtley
06-06-2018, 07:41 AM
If I copy anything it will be in quotes and sourced. I will also add author to quotes if author is known, there are times when quotes have no author but I will still enclose in quotes. Liberals are honest and think for themselves, it is part of our DNA.
That's not my experience. I have found many liberals to be outright liars. I have found that it is in their DNA, inherent in their being. Not all of them, mind you, but many of them.


I return to this thread because of a few items i read recently. 'Is politics driven by pragmatic self-interest or by identities and ideals? The self-harming voter offers a clue' "Successful challengers will also need to come up with narratives that help to reshape peoples’ worldviews and identities." https://aeon.co/essays/how-do-elites-manage-to-hijack-voters-ideas-of-themselvesKim

Your link doesn't work. You lost me though on what AEON is:
Support Aeon. Aeon is a registered charity committed to the spread of knowledge and a cosmopolitan worldview. Our mission is to create a sanctuary online for serious thinking. No ads, no paywall, no clickbait – just thought-provoking ideas from the world’s leading thinkers, free to all. But we can’t do it without you. "A cosmopolitan worldview." More elitism. Yep, the party of the people.....



I often mention this book and when I came across the Youtube I wanted to share. Phillips-Fein: "Invisible Hands" Many of the most astute writers today in America are women.
Many of the most astute writers today in American aren't women.

Note: portions omitted.

Vision
06-08-2018, 01:33 PM
The question becomes when did Americans become so weak they needed someone to lead them?

If average American lifestyles are any indication, such as poor diets and infatuation with degenerate media, I'm not sure when they became particularly weak, but it does seem to have increased rather exponentially over the past 50-60 years.



What happened to the free individual, the cowboy image, the creators, the proud American, the laborer, and the made in America. What happened to the nation that won all the important battles? What changed?

In practice, "free individuals" don't really exist except in myth other than in the case of those who advance to higher stations in life, as opposed to being materialistic and slavish - iconography such as the "cowboy image" has its adolescent charm, but in practice that type of "freedom" isn't really actualized much at all other than by those who answer to a higher ideal or power and naturally inspire leadership in others.

The "cowboys" in reality as opposed to in cartoons for children, were merely employees of a superior man, and he was merely employee of superior above him... while ideally men of the highest varnas, or the "Priestly" class, such as Christ, or Buddha - would be the only ones who truly answer to no man, but directly to God-consciousness, or the Cosmos itself.

So the reality, of course, is that mankind has always needed a savior to lead them to a promised land, the difference would merely be the type of ideal they choose to view as a savior.

If people become slavish, lazy, materialistic, and weak then they will naturally choose to worship false idols which cater to the more childish and feral pleasures, much like a pack of dogs or the "cargo cult" religions of yore.

Tahuyaman
06-08-2018, 05:44 PM
They have supplements and diets to leach excess estrogen from men.



Research it. You need it.

You sir have an impressive grasp of the obvious.

Lummy
06-08-2018, 06:04 PM
Pakman is an immature, irresponsible idiot.

midcan5
06-09-2018, 10:03 AM
DGUtley Sorry about that, fixed the link. Excellent piece read it. Aeon is obviously not a 'Dark Money' sourced propaganda site, sorry about that, but it may help you out of the snowflake cocoon so many live in today.


https://aeon.co/essays/how-do-elites-manage-to-hijack-voters-ideas-of-themselves


Vision, I'll try to get back to your thoughts.


"Only a few know, how much one must know to know how little one knows." Werner Heisenberg

donttread
06-09-2018, 10:25 AM
I am watching the screaming crowd at a Trump rally, I am asking why. A purple heart veteran gives a medal to a draft dodger who promises greatness. Google 'the emasculated American male' and you will get 634,000 hits. What is it about a man that I perceive as a insecure narcissist that gives hope to so many?


Harvard professor and Manliness author Harvey C. Mansfield, 'We are attracted to the manly man because he imparts some of his confidence to everyone else.' Maybe so, but I do not see Donald Trump as a manly man, if anything he seems the son of the pampered upper class. Those born to wealth, who cannot imagine poverty's world. He will not even release his tax forms.


A few of the links in my Google search came from conservative sites and were dated after Barack Obama's election. Did the accomplishment of a Black man fuel this sense of powerlessness? Democrats have lost the white vote since Civil Rights legislation. Is this fear and need born of a deep seated racism.


Witness the hatred of Hillary. Today it is email and Benghazi, but do they forget the witch images from her husband's presidency. Is fear and need born too of misogyny. A woman demonized by republicans for so long. Add in immigration, Mexicans, Muslims, where do you place them.


Certain themes dominate, they get it all, freeloaders, the system is rigged, we are a Christian nation, it's the liberal media, words come to form meaning, thinking is absent, thought is absent. When Trump loses in November it will be because it is a rigged system, and the false narrative will continue. Some will believe. Republicans have engaged in these whistle words for sixty years, someone finally took them up. Their appeal has backfired. Republicans were complicit in a creation they now question.


Hitler references are used too often so now one cannot make comparisons. I will make America great again. I will do this. The crowd cheers, and we will be safe again, and strong again. I will have your back, we will keep them out, we will throw them out, they have to go, the crowd chants, signs waves, slogans work on this audience. Nationalism is a double edged sword.


And why does the American, a person who lives in one of the greatest nations feel they need a savior, a powerful man to lead them to some promised land? Trump praises Putin, is a Russia dictator what they want, a strong leader to makes their wrongs right?


The question becomes when did Americans become so weak they needed someone to lead them? What happened to the free individual, the cowboy image, the creators, the proud American, the laborer, and the made in America. What happened to the nation that won all the important battles? What changed?


The individual has been under attack from the state for decades. As for the rest of it, you might be watching too much TV

DGUtley
06-09-2018, 10:30 AM
@DGUtley (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=2019) Sorry about that, fixed the link. Excellent piece read it. Aeon is obviously not a 'Dark Money' sourced propaganda site, sorry about that, but it may help you out of the snowflake cocoon so many live in today.
Thanks. I'll check out the link later. I'm starting a deposition at noon here so I'll see if I can get to it later today. You kind of lose me when you use terms like "obviously not". In my business that typically means that it "obviously is". I'll read it nonetheless. You apparently don't know what a snowflake is to suggest that I live in a snowflake cocoon; but, it is Philly. Enjoy Lebron next year. We did.

midcan5
01-04-2019, 08:04 AM
'Why Are White Men Stockpiling Guns?' Is there a simple answer?

As a white male who lives in a city of great diversity, this stuff boggles my mind. Why are white men not the John Wayne image they once were? Change frightens the insecure, but why are they insecure? What changed? Trump plays on that fear and insecurity, it is his only tool.

'Research suggests it's largely because they're anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market and beset by racial fears'

"These are men who are anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market, and beset by racial fears. They tend to be less educated. For the most part, they don’t appear to be religious—and, suggests one study, faith seems to reduce their attachment to guns. In fact, stockpiling guns seems to be a symptom of a much deeper crisis in meaning and purpose in their lives. Taken together, these studies describe a population that is struggling to find a new story—one in which they are once again the heroes."

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-are-white-men-stockpiling-guns/

Peter1469
01-04-2019, 08:09 AM
'Why Are White Men Stockpiling Guns?' Is there a simple answer?

As a white male who lives in a city of great diversity, this stuff boggles my mind. Why are white men not the John Wayne image they once were? Change frightens the insecure, but why are they insecure? What changed? Trump plays on that fear and insecurity, it is his only tool.

'Research suggests it's largely because they're anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market and beset by racial fears'

"These are men who are anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market, and beset by racial fears. They tend to be less educated. For the most part, they don’t appear to be religious—and, suggests one study, faith seems to reduce their attachment to guns. In fact, stockpiling guns seems to be a symptom of a much deeper crisis in meaning and purpose in their lives. Taken together, these studies describe a population that is struggling to find a new story—one in which they are once again the heroes."

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-are-white-men-stockpiling-guns/
Sounds like the article is discussing fems.

Men are not experiencing anxiety about anything.

So how are your anxiety levels Mcant?

DGUtley
01-04-2019, 08:34 AM
Stockpiling guns? I don't know anybody that is "stockpiling" guns, and I live in a very friendly gun state. I always say that guns are like the latest golf driver or video game. You go to the range and your buddy pulls that out of his bag. You look at it. It's cool. It's got the latest this or that. They've talked about it at the range. It feels good when you swing shoot it. You think it helps you be a bit more accurate. Driving home, you think you might want it. You eventually get it. You put it in your bag safe and tell the wife you've had it a long time, it's not new at all.

By the way, I read the article and the study linked therein. Both are result-oriented. Read the study. You'll be shocked at it result-oriented bias.

Tahuyaman
01-04-2019, 10:47 AM
I hope to god this isnt true. There was a reason nature made men and women. Mothers instill values needed and so Do Fathers take one or the other way and you got an unfinished product

Many people, mostly millenials, don't believe in the natural inclinations of men vs women any longer. To them there is no nature. Nature is what you perceive it to be at any one time regardless of reality.

Tahuyaman
01-04-2019, 10:49 AM
'Why Are White Men Stockpiling Guns?' Is there a simple answer?

As a white male who lives in a city of great diversity, this stuff boggles my mind. Why are white men not the John Wayne image they once were? Change frightens the insecure, but why are they insecure? What changed? Trump plays on that fear and insecurity, it is his only tool.

'Research suggests it's largely because they're anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market and beset by racial fears'

"These are men who are anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market, and beset by racial fears. They tend to be less educated. For the most part, they don’t appear to be religious—and, suggests one study, faith seems to reduce their attachment to guns. In fact, stockpiling guns seems to be a symptom of a much deeper crisis in meaning and purpose in their lives. Taken together, these studies describe a population that is struggling to find a new story—one in which they are once again the heroes."

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-are-white-men-stockpiling-guns/

I think that's basically a bunch of hogwash.

Kalkin
01-04-2019, 11:53 AM
As a white male
With your avatar? I call BS.

Tahuyaman
01-04-2019, 12:22 PM
'Why Are White Men Stockpiling Guns?' Is there a simple answer?

As a white male who lives in a city of great diversity, this stuff boggles my mind. Why are white men not the John Wayne image they once were? Change frightens the insecure, but why are they insecure? What changed? Trump plays on that fear and insecurity, it is his only tool.

'Research suggests it's largely because they're anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market and beset by racial fears'

"These are men who are anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market, and beset by racial fears. They tend to be less educated. For the most part, they don’t appear to be religious—and, suggests one study, faith seems to reduce their attachment to guns. In fact, stockpiling guns seems to be a symptom of a much deeper crisis in meaning and purpose in their lives. Taken together, these studies describe a population that is struggling to find a new story—one in which they are once again the heroes."

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-are-white-men-stockpiling-guns/

If one buys more than one firearm is he or she considered to be stockpiling guns?

DGUtley
01-04-2019, 12:24 PM
If one buys more than one firearm is he or she considered to be stockpiling guns?

Apparently....

Mister D
01-04-2019, 03:04 PM
'Why Are White Men Stockpiling Guns?' Is there a simple answer?

As a white male who lives in a city of great diversity, this stuff boggles my mind. Why are white men not the John Wayne image they once were? Change frightens the insecure, but why are they insecure? What changed? Trump plays on that fear and insecurity, it is his only tool.

'Research suggests it's largely because they're anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market and beset by racial fears'

"These are men who are anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market, and beset by racial fears. They tend to be less educated. For the most part, they don’t appear to be religious—and, suggests one study, faith seems to reduce their attachment to guns. In fact, stockpiling guns seems to be a symptom of a much deeper crisis in meaning and purpose in their lives. Taken together, these studies describe a population that is struggling to find a new story—one in which they are once again the heroes."

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-are-white-men-stockpiling-guns/
Philadelphia is one of the most segregated large cities in the country. Living in a diverse city and actually living in a diverse environment (local community, neighborhood etc.) re two different things. White guys (like you) don't live in diverse neighborhoods. That shouldn't boggle your mind. You aren't as different as you might think, pilgrim.

donttread
01-05-2019, 11:45 AM
I am watching the screaming crowd at a Trump rally, I am asking why. A purple heart veteran gives a medal to a draft dodger who promises greatness. Google 'the emasculated American male' and you will get 634,000 hits. What is it about a man that I perceive as a insecure narcissist that gives hope to so many?


Harvard professor and Manliness author Harvey C. Mansfield, 'We are attracted to the manly man because he imparts some of his confidence to everyone else.' Maybe so, but I do not see Donald Trump as a manly man, if anything he seems the son of the pampered upper class. Those born to wealth, who cannot imagine poverty's world. He will not even release his tax forms.


A few of the links in my Google search came from conservative sites and were dated after Barack Obama's election. Did the accomplishment of a Black man fuel this sense of powerlessness? Democrats have lost the white vote since Civil Rights legislation. Is this fear and need born of a deep seated racism.


Witness the hatred of Hillary. Today it is email and Benghazi, but do they forget the witch images from her husband's presidency. Is fear and need born too of misogyny. A woman demonized by republicans for so long. Add in immigration, Mexicans, Muslims, where do you place them.


Certain themes dominate, they get it all, freeloaders, the system is rigged, we are a Christian nation, it's the liberal media, words come to form meaning, thinking is absent, thought is absent. When Trump loses in November it will be because it is a rigged system, and the false narrative will continue. Some will believe. Republicans have engaged in these whistle words for sixty years, someone finally took them up. Their appeal has backfired. Republicans were complicit in a creation they now question.


Hitler references are used too often so now one cannot make comparisons. I will make America great again. I will do this. The crowd cheers, and we will be safe again, and strong again. I will have your back, we will keep them out, we will throw them out, they have to go, the crowd chants, signs waves, slogans work on this audience. Nationalism is a double edged sword.


And why does the American, a person who lives in one of the greatest nations feel they need a savior, a powerful man to lead them to some promised land? Trump praises Putin, is a Russia dictator what they want, a strong leader to makes their wrongs right?


The question becomes when did Americans become so weak they needed someone to lead them? What happened to the free individual, the cowboy image, the creators, the proud American, the laborer, and the made in America. What happened to the nation that won all the important battles? What changed?

The world loves testosterone when they are in trouble or need a physical task preformed or when they want that one particular guy to "sweep them off their feet".
Bad news world you can't have it both ways. Men are going to ask out women who don't want them to, oggle those bikinis , and make sex jokes and even compliments. Deal with it.

Cletus
01-05-2019, 11:57 AM
'Why Are White Men Stockpiling Guns?' Is there a simple answer?

As a white male who lives in a city of great diversity, this stuff boggles my mind. Why are white men not the John Wayne image they once were? Change frightens the insecure, but why are they insecure? What changed? Trump plays on that fear and insecurity, it is his only tool.

'Research suggests it's largely because they're anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market and beset by racial fears'

"These are men who are anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market, and beset by racial fears. They tend to be less educated. For the most part, they don’t appear to be religious—and, suggests one study, faith seems to reduce their attachment to guns. In fact, stockpiling guns seems to be a symptom of a much deeper crisis in meaning and purpose in their lives. Taken together, these studies describe a population that is struggling to find a new story—one in which they are once again the heroes."

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-are-white-men-stockpiling-guns/

I read the entire article. There was very little truth in it.

jet57
01-05-2019, 11:57 AM
I am watching the screaming crowd at a Trump rally, I am asking why. A purple heart veteran gives a medal to a draft dodger who promises greatness. Google 'the emasculated American male' and you will get 634,000 hits. What is it about a man that I perceive as a insecure narcissist that gives hope to so many?


Harvard professor and Manliness author Harvey C. Mansfield, 'We are attracted to the manly man because he imparts some of his confidence to everyone else.' Maybe so, but I do not see Donald Trump as a manly man, if anything he seems the son of the pampered upper class. Those born to wealth, who cannot imagine poverty's world. He will not even release his tax forms.


A few of the links in my Google search came from conservative sites and were dated after Barack Obama's election. Did the accomplishment of a Black man fuel this sense of powerlessness? Democrats have lost the white vote since Civil Rights legislation. Is this fear and need born of a deep seated racism.


Witness the hatred of Hillary. Today it is email and Benghazi, but do they forget the witch images from her husband's presidency. Is fear and need born too of misogyny. A woman demonized by republicans for so long. Add in immigration, Mexicans, Muslims, where do you place them.


Certain themes dominate, they get it all, freeloaders, the system is rigged, we are a Christian nation, it's the liberal media, words come to form meaning, thinking is absent, thought is absent. When Trump loses in November it will be because it is a rigged system, and the false narrative will continue. Some will believe. Republicans have engaged in these whistle words for sixty years, someone finally took them up. Their appeal has backfired. Republicans were complicit in a creation they now question.


Hitler references are used too often so now one cannot make comparisons. I will make America great again. I will do this. The crowd cheers, and we will be safe again, and strong again. I will have your back, we will keep them out, we will throw them out, they have to go, the crowd chants, signs waves, slogans work on this audience. Nationalism is a double edged sword.


And why does the American, a person who lives in one of the greatest nations feel they need a savior, a powerful man to lead them to some promised land? Trump praises Putin, is a Russia dictator what they want, a strong leader to makes their wrongs right?


The question becomes when did Americans become so weak they needed someone to lead them? What happened to the free individual, the cowboy image, the creators, the proud American, the laborer, and the made in America. What happened to the nation that won all the important battles? What changed?

Very well said. Politics is about morality. The far right morality is connected directly to the business world and thus connected to all the money that gets poured into the far right causes. These people are puritans; their leaders are confederates, read "Antebellum South". The far -right will follow ANY banner or anybody or anything that props that morality up as The Cause, ergo Donald Trump, Ken Star, Jerry Falwell, Ronald Reagan and a host of other giblets that know what's best for you just like your strict father did. As Sean Hannity said - "If you don't support the war (Iraq) then you don't support our troops". And then we started to see all those ribbon like bumper stickers that read "support our troops"... You just cannot convince certain types in this country that the earth is more than 13,000 years old no matter what empirical evidence you show them, and as long as they buy the BS and vote the candidates in we are all going to continue to fight the pillow called the far right-wing. The only way to defeat them, is just to smarten up, defeat them at the polls and buy enough stock in companies we don't like in order to change their behavior.

Peter1469
01-05-2019, 12:01 PM
Very well said. Politics is about morality. The far right morality is connected directly to the business world and thus connected to all the money that gets poured into the far right causes. These people are puritans; their leaders are confederates, read "Antebellum South". The far -right will follow ANY banner or anybody or anything that props that morality up as The Cause, ergo Donald Trump, Ken Star, Jerry Falwell, Ronald Reagan and a host of other giblets that know what's best for you just like your strict father did. As Sean Hannity said - "If you don't support the war (Iraq) then you don't support our troops". And then we started to see all those ribbon like bumper stickers that read "support our troops"... You just cannot convince certain types in this country that the earth is more than 13,000 years old no matter what empirical evidence you show them, and as long as they buy the BS and vote the candidates in we are all going to continue to fight the pillow called the far right-wing. The only way to defeat them, is just to smarten up, defeat them at the polls and buy enough stick in companies we don't like in order to change their behavior.
A lot of major corporations give to both parties. And then you have Silicon Valley- which has serious money- and they primarily give to Dems, especially for presidential elections.

jet57
01-05-2019, 12:02 PM
A lot of major corporations give to both parties. And then you have Silicon Valley- which has serious money- and they primarily give to Dems, especially for presidential elections.


You didn't read my post, therefore you don;t understand it. I'm going to answer a cheery picked from the tree.

donttread
01-05-2019, 12:02 PM
Very well said. Politics is about morality. The far right morality is connected directly to the business world and thus connected to all the money that gets poured into the far right causes. These people are puritans; their leaders are confederates, read "Antebellum South". The far -right will follow ANY banner or anybody or anything that props that morality up as The Cause, ergo Donald Trump, Ken Star, Jerry Falwell, Ronald Reagan and a host of other giblets that know what's best for you just like your strict father did. As Sean Hannity said - "If you don't support the war (Iraq) then you don't support our troops". And then we started to see all those ribbon like bumper stickers that read "support our troops"... You just cannot convince certain types in this country that the earth is more than 13,000 years old no matter what empirical evidence you show them, and as long as they buy the BS and vote the candidates in we are all going to continue to fight the pillow called the far right-wing. The only way to defeat them, is just to smarten up, defeat them at the polls and buy enough stick in companies we don't like in order to change their behavior.



Politics is the antithesis of morality.

Peter1469
01-05-2019, 02:05 PM
You didn't read my post, therefore you don;t understand it. I'm going to answer a cheery picked from the tree.

Go back to your corner.

jet57
01-05-2019, 07:32 PM
Go back to your corner.

The post is way over your head anyway; tough for the uneducated mind to grasp.

Continue to shoot sparrows out of trees though.

Peter1469
01-05-2019, 08:24 PM
The post is way over your head anyway; tough for the uneducated mind to grasp.

Continue to shoot sparrows out of trees though.
You have a lot of confidence for someone who has to reason to be confident.

jet57
01-05-2019, 11:36 PM
You have a lot of confidence for someone who has to reason to be confident.

Just more vapid BS.

donttread
01-06-2019, 10:25 AM
Apparently....


That's why it's best to inherit your guns from a time before records were kept.

Lummy
01-06-2019, 10:32 AM
Just more vapid BS.
Do you really think anyone reads any of your posts and thereafter considers you anything more than an irrational, left wing, nutjob brat?

donttread
01-06-2019, 11:00 AM
Philadelphia is one of the most segregated large cities in the country. Living in a diverse city and actually living in a diverse environment (local community, neighborhood etc.) re two different things. White guys (like you) don't live in diverse neighborhoods. That shouldn't boggle your mind. You aren't as different as you might think, pilgrim.


We don't have enough minorities in our town to have their own neighborhoods. All 5 black people, both hispanics, the two "Dot on the forehead Indians) and few part blooded we were here first Americans along with that Arab dude all live among us in near perfect harmony. The white folks do gossip about them and each other however.

donttread
01-06-2019, 11:13 AM
We don't have enough minorities in our town to have their own neighborhoods. All 5 black people, both hispanics, the two "Dot on the forehead Indians) and few part blooded we were here first Americans along with that Arab dude all live among us in near perfect harmony. The white folks do gossip about them and each other however.

I forgot that we have two very nice Oriental ladies as well. We are practically a melting pot!

jet57
01-06-2019, 11:55 AM
Do you really think anyone reads any of your posts and thereafter considers you anything more than an irrational, left wing, nutjob brat?

The smart people do. The stupid people say things like "Do you really think anyone reads any of your posts and thereafter considers you anything more than an irrational, left wing, nutjob brat? because they can't read.

Jeb!
01-06-2019, 02:53 PM
And why does the American, a person who lives in one of the greatest nations feel they need a savior, a powerful man to lead them to some promised land?

This is ironic coming from a ladyboy with a Michelle Obama avatar. Trump is president. Feel empowered, chump?