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Chris
08-06-2016, 12:22 PM
This sort of muddies up the debated over the trade deficit, that fact that many imports are inputs to production.

Douglas A. Irwin, a trade economist at Dartmouth, writes in Free Trade Under Fire (http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s7938.html):


...most of this trade in manufactured goods is not in final consumer goods, but rather in intermediate components and parts. The Department of Commerce provides a closer look at the imports when it attempts to classify them based on final actual use. Table 1.3 shows this end-use classification of U.S. imports for three categories: consumer goods, industrial supplies and materials, and capital goods. The most striking change is the rise of capital goods as a share of U.S. imports, especially since 1970. Capital goods include machinery, equipment, instruments, parts, and various other components to production. Over half of all imports are either intermediate components or raw materials. These imports are sold as inputs to domestic businesses rather than as goods consumed directly by households. As chapter 3 will explain, this fact has important implications for trade policy: protectionist policies will directly harm employment in other domestic industries by raising their production costs, in addition to forcing consumers to pay a higher price for the products they buy....

Don Boudreaux, economist at George Mason University, comments (http://cafehayek.com/2016/08/almost-all-imports-are-inputs.html):


...Recognition of this reality is important for at least three related reasons. First, it disabuses people of the false notion that increases in imports per-capita imply that we Americans are short-sightedly sacrificing our and our children’s futures in order to live irresponsibly high on the hog today. Second, it highlights a vital, positive connection between importing and domestic production. Third, it reveals that, while tariffs and other import restrictions are good for some domestic producers, they harm many other domestic producers even if those other domestic producers do not sell in export markets.

...In summary, with the exception of vacation travel abroad, almost no imports are purchased directly by final consumers. Almost all imports, even ones that are conventionally classified as “final consumer goods,” are inputs into the production processes of domestic producers. Almost all imports, even ones that are conventionally classified as “final consumer goods,” are in fact intermediate goods. And therefore, almost all tariffs, even ones on imports that are conventionally classified as “final consumer goods,” artificially increase the costs of producing domestically and of otherwise operating domestic businesses.

Common
08-06-2016, 12:35 PM
Chris when people talk about outsourced produced imported goods, they are talking about almost everything sold in walmart, kmart, target, and the wholesale clubs. The everyday they pick up that say. China, Mexico, India, Vietnam, Skorea, Phillipines Bangladesh, and on and on. Its very difficult for an everyday american not to believe that all the things they used to buy said made in USA now is not. You are hard pressed to be able to pick up something that does say made in the USA

Americans are perfectly right to feel they way they do

Newpublius
08-06-2016, 12:44 PM
This sort of muddies up the debated over the trade deficit, that fact that many imports are inputs to production.

Douglas A. Irwin, a trade economist at Dartmouth, writes in Free Trade Under Fire (http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s7938.html):



Don Boudreaux, economist at George Mason University, comments (http://cafehayek.com/2016/08/almost-all-imports-are-inputs.html):

Excellent insight and it should give mercantalists pause when they realize imported products are needed to produce the domestic ones they wish to protect. Nevertheless, I'd suggest that a fantastic example of this are some 'small' economies. Singapore immediately comes to mind. But there are many small economies where exports plus imports are greater than GDP....

Likewise the mercantalists position taken to its logical conclusion is a reliance on being completely self sufficient. In some ways that sounds appealing I suppose, but the case of the perversely backward near-autarky in Albania of years gone by is a great example of how important trade is.

Newpublius
08-06-2016, 12:46 PM
Chris when people talk about outsourced produced imported goods, they are talking about almost everything sold in walmart, kmart, target, and the wholesale clubs. The everyday they pick up that say. China, Mexico, India, Vietnam, Skorea, Phillipines Bangladesh, and on and on. Its very difficult for an everyday american not to believe that all the things they used to buy said made in USA now is not. You are hard pressed to be able to pick up something that does say made in the USA

Americans are perfectly right to feel they way they do

So what? We trade for them. They're not giving it to you.

Compared to other developed nations external trade from the US is actually relatively small percentage. Take US imports and compare to GDP. Now do the same for Canada, Germany, Switzerland......tell me what you find.

Chris
08-06-2016, 12:47 PM
Chris when people talk about outsourced produced imported goods, they are talking about almost everything sold in walmart, kmart, target, and the wholesale clubs. The everyday they pick up that say. China, Mexico, India, Vietnam, Skorea, Phillipines Bangladesh, and on and on. Its very difficult for an everyday american not to believe that all the things they used to buy said made in USA now is not. You are hard pressed to be able to pick up something that does say made in the USA

Americans are perfectly right to feel they way they do


Just trying to provide some insight to those Americans. If they are purchasing imports then doesn't it stand to reason they see value in it? So why should they pay for protectionism?


Here thought the point is those purchases are miniscule to imports used as inputs to production right here in the good ol' USA.

Common
08-06-2016, 12:50 PM
So what? We trade for them. They're not giving it to you.

Compared to other developed nations external trade from the US is actually relatively small percentage. Take US imports and compare to GDP. Now do the same for Canada, Germany, Switzerland......tell me what you find.

The working americans idled because of it dont say so what and the trade deficit with china and mexico is HUGE so nice try

Common
08-06-2016, 12:53 PM
Just trying to provide some insight to those Americans. If they are purchasing imports then doesn't it stand to reason they see value in it? So why should they pay for protectionism?


Here thought the point is those purchases are miniscule to imports used as inputs to production right here in the good ol' USA.

You cannot determine value when there is no alternatives. Try and find a small appliance made in the USA to substitute one made in China.

Last I read there was on tv assembled in america viore and Ive never seen one for sale

Chris
08-06-2016, 12:54 PM
The working americans idled because of it dont say so what and the trade deficit with china and mexico is HUGE so nice try

So you would protect those few and harm others with protectionism? The point of the OP is that the vast majority of imports are used as inputs to production in the US. Production means jobs.

Chris
08-06-2016, 12:56 PM
You cannot determine value when there is no alternatives. Try and find a small appliance made in the USA to substitute one made in China.

Last I read there was on tv assembled in america viore and Ive never seen one for sale


Why would I want to? I'm on my way to walmart to save some money so I can spend it on other things.

Newpublius
08-06-2016, 12:57 PM
The working americans idled because of it dont say so what

Oh, I see, so somehow they have a fundamental right to my patronage then? It's incumbent on you to do something I'm willing to buy with the money I obtained selling things other people were willing to buy.

I mean it matters not if I purchase a Florida vacation for early September and idle NJ tourism workers.

Any time you spend your money on one thing that means you're spending it on a nearly infinite variety of other things.

Economic change changes things, consumers' ever changing tastes and preferences, in the aggregate compels resources to flow one way over another.

Foreign trade as a source of economic change isn't more compelling than any other people who lose jobs due to any kind of economic change.

Newpublius
08-06-2016, 12:58 PM
Why would I want to? I'm on my way to walmart to save some money so I can spend it on other things.

although you'll lose your time doing so (something about that store, I can never find anything I'm looking for in there)

Chris
08-06-2016, 01:38 PM
although you'll lose your time doing so (something about that store, I can never find anything I'm looking for in there)

Ive got it memorized.