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Common
08-09-2016, 05:15 AM
Seems china is digging in. They trained military manuevers with russia. WHERE is Obama ??


http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20160809&t=2&i=1148881547&w=644&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=LYNXNPEC7805U

Recent satellite photographs show China appears to have built reinforced aircraft hangars on its holdings in the disputed South China Sea, according to a Washington-based think tank.

Pictures taken in late July show the hangars constructed on Fiery Cross, Subi and Mischief Reefs in the Spratly islands, have room for any fighter jet in the Chinese air force, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).
"Except for a brief visit by a military transport plane to Fiery Cross Reef earlier this year, there is no evidence that Beijing has deployed military aircraft to these outposts. But the rapid construction of reinforced hangars at all three features indicates that this is likely to change," CSIS said in a report.
China claims most of the South China Sea, through which $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. The Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei have overlapping claims.
The images have emerged about a month after an international court in The Hague ruled against China's sweeping claims in the resource-rich region, a ruling emphatically rejected by Beijing.
The United States has urged China and other claimants not to militarize their holdings in the South China Sea.
China has repeatedly denied doing so and has in turn criticized U.S. patrols and exercises for ramping up tensions.
“China has indisputable sovereignty over the Spratly islands and nearby waters," China's Defence Ministry said in a faxed response to a request for comment on Tuesday.
"China has said many times, construction on the Spratly islands and reefs is multipurpose, mixed, and with the exception of necessary military defensive requirements, are more for serving all forms of civil needs."
Ties around the region have been strained in the lead-up to and since The Hague ruling.
China has sent bombers and fighter jets on combat patrols near the contested South China Sea islands, state media reported on Saturday, and Japan has complained about what it has said were multiple intrusions into its territorial waters around another group of islands in the East China Sea.
The hangars all show signs of structural strengthening, CSIS said.
"They are far thicker than you would build for any civilian purpose," Gregory Poling, director of CSIS's Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative, told the New York Times, which first reported on the new images. "They're reinforced to take a strike."
Other facilities including unidentified towers and hexagonal structures have also been built on the islets in recent months, CSIS said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-images-idUSKCN10K08P

Peter1469
08-09-2016, 05:31 AM
They want the exclusive economic zone- keep sailing past and not allow it.

Common
08-09-2016, 06:11 AM
Obama isnt doing anything to stop it, he just sits around like a pile worrying about screwing half of americans

DGUtley
08-09-2016, 06:14 AM
Fundamental transformation.

Peter1469
08-09-2016, 06:15 AM
No. The navy is contesting the area.

As it should.

stjames1_53
08-09-2016, 06:22 AM
..........as if we don't have enough problems coming from the west...........

Common
08-09-2016, 06:23 AM
If something isnt done to reign in china now, we will be subservient to them in 20 more years. Thanks to american corporate money

stjames1_53
08-09-2016, 06:32 AM
If something isnt done to reign in china now, we will be subservient to them in 20 more years. Thanks to american corporate money

with the communist party backing Hillary, you can expect more than just cooperation. We'll see a total sellout from the bitch just so she can line her pockets.

Mac-7
08-09-2016, 06:47 AM
They want the exclusive economic zone- keep sailing past and not allow it.

But you keep assuring everybody that china has a weak navy and cannot threaten peace at sea for several generations.

right?

DGUtley
08-09-2016, 07:11 AM
But you keep assuring everybody that china has a weak navy and cannot threaten peace at sea for several generations.

right?
Let's borrow some more money from them. That'll enable us to not be influenced in what we do in our foreign policy.

Cthulhu
08-09-2016, 07:18 AM
But you keep assuring everybody that china has a weak navy and cannot threaten peace at sea for several generations.

right?
Their navy is weak. The next generation of American carriers will be able to wage war singlehandedly.

As much I don't like it at times, the USA spend lots of money on the military R & D.

The tech produced is damn spooky.

They may have quantity, but they don't have the quality. Quantity might have won wars in the last century, but it won't help much in this one. Human wave attacks simply won't work anymore.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

Mac-7
08-09-2016, 07:32 AM
Their navy is weak. The next generation of American carriers will be able to wage war singlehandedly.



As much I don't like it at times, the USA spend lots of money on the military R & D.

The tech produced is damn spooky.

They may have quantity, but they don't have the quality. Quantity might have won wars in the last century, but it won't help much in this one. Human wave attacks simply won't work anymore.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.


How do you sink an island?

China does not need a navy as large as ours to control the seas in its region.

donttread
08-09-2016, 07:38 AM
Seems china is digging in. They trained military manuevers with russia. WHERE is Obama ??


http://s4.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20160809&t=2&i=1148881547&w=644&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&sq=&r=LYNXNPEC7805U

Recent satellite photographs show China appears to have built reinforced aircraft hangars on its holdings in the disputed South China Sea, according to a Washington-based think tank.

Pictures taken in late July show the hangars constructed on Fiery Cross, Subi and Mischief Reefs in the Spratly islands, have room for any fighter jet in the Chinese air force, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS).
"Except for a brief visit by a military transport plane to Fiery Cross Reef earlier this year, there is no evidence that Beijing has deployed military aircraft to these outposts. But the rapid construction of reinforced hangars at all three features indicates that this is likely to change," CSIS said in a report.
China claims most of the South China Sea, through which $5 trillion in ship-borne trade passes every year. The Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Taiwan and Brunei have overlapping claims.
The images have emerged about a month after an international court in The Hague ruled against China's sweeping claims in the resource-rich region, a ruling emphatically rejected by Beijing.
The United States has urged China and other claimants not to militarize their holdings in the South China Sea.
China has repeatedly denied doing so and has in turn criticized U.S. patrols and exercises for ramping up tensions.
“China has indisputable sovereignty over the Spratly islands and nearby waters," China's Defence Ministry said in a faxed response to a request for comment on Tuesday.
"China has said many times, construction on the Spratly islands and reefs is multipurpose, mixed, and with the exception of necessary military defensive requirements, are more for serving all forms of civil needs."
Ties around the region have been strained in the lead-up to and since The Hague ruling.
China has sent bombers and fighter jets on combat patrols near the contested South China Sea islands, state media reported on Saturday, and Japan has complained about what it has said were multiple intrusions into its territorial waters around another group of islands in the East China Sea.
The hangars all show signs of structural strengthening, CSIS said.
"They are far thicker than you would build for any civilian purpose," Gregory Poling, director of CSIS's Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative, told the New York Times, which first reported on the new images. "They're reinforced to take a strike."
Other facilities including unidentified towers and hexagonal structures have also been built on the islets in recent months, CSIS said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-images-idUSKCN10K08P

An objective observer would probably conclude that Russia and especially China are acting to prevent aggression in their regions from America. Don't lose it and fly off the handle gentlemen , instead think about it. Who has been fucking around with regional politics in Russia's back yard ? Who thinks America has any business in the Southb CHINA Sea?
Suppose Russia and China had intervened in the chaos in Columbia .Or if they'd stepped in to the chaos and cruel things being done in South America that we let go , except for shooting down an occassional plane we lable as drug running which occassionally has a pastor in it instead.
But in general we let South ameria implode while chasing "evil demons" half way around the world. So if a Russian Chinesse task force came in the to "help the peoples of South and Central America" ... how would we feel? What military manuvers might we under take to prepare for self defense?

Common
08-09-2016, 07:41 AM
Their navy is weak. The next generation of American carriers will be able to wage war singlehandedly.

As much I don't like it at times, the USA spend lots of money on the military R & D.

The tech produced is damn spooky.

They may have quantity, but they don't have the quality. Quantity might have won wars in the last century, but it won't help much in this one. Human wave attacks simply won't work anymore.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

You make a very valid point. Years ago they used to say no one had enough bullets to shoot the entire chinese army. I agree today technology prevails and they dont have it.

Eventually they will have it and they will be more threat than Russia.

Either we find world peace or we will have world war eventually

exotix
08-09-2016, 08:44 AM
We need to start another Gulf of Tonkin incident.

donttread
08-09-2016, 08:48 AM
Their navy is weak. The next generation of American carriers will be able to wage war singlehandedly.

As much I don't like it at times, the USA spend lots of money on the military R & D.

The tech produced is damn spooky.

They may have quantity, but they don't have the quality. Quantity might have won wars in the last century, but it won't help much in this one. Human wave attacks simply won't work anymore.

Sent from my evil, baby seal-clubbing cellphone.

"Wage war by itself:" Good news , now we only need one of the 13,000,000,000 money pits. But we'll build a dozen or so anyway, it's not like it's the DOD's money.

MisterVeritis
08-09-2016, 08:49 AM
No. The navy is contesting the area.

As it should.
Our actions are insufficient. And irrelevant. China will intimidate the nations in the region. There are things we could, and should be doing. Sailing past some artificial islands is only useful if we are doing those other things.

MisterVeritis
08-09-2016, 08:55 AM
Their navy is weak. The next generation of American carriers will be able to wage war singlehandedly.

As much I don't like it at times, the USA spend lots of money on the military R & D.

The tech produced is damn spooky.

They may have quantity, but they don't have the quality. Quantity might have won wars in the last century, but it won't help much in this one. Human wave attacks simply won't work anymore.

Most of us share the same weakness. We see this problem from a position of American strengths. That may be one reason why we never win our wars anymore.

The Chinese see the problem from their perspective, not from ours. They have developed a solution to our power from their perspective, not from ours. I believe their solution will work fine for them.

Not everyone is blind. The navy has been working with defense corporations for about a decade on the anti-access, area denial problem (A2AD). In my last year as a senior engineering manager, I monitored some half-dozen emerging programs to address A2AD. We are not there yet.

Adelaide
08-09-2016, 09:21 AM
I'm not sure what Obama could do. I doubt diplomacy would be effective, and threatening China seems like a bad idea.

MisterVeritis
08-09-2016, 09:24 AM
I'm not sure what Obama could do. I doubt diplomacy would be effective, and threatening China seems like a bad idea.
Seven nations in the region bordering the China Seas could be brought together using bilateral and trilateral agreements. Each could offer one or two other nearby nations support in defending their specific interests. We can provide coordination, some intelligence support, and other forms of support.

Japan and South Korea can develop their own nuclear weapons.

There are plenty of options that a Marxist regime would not likely consider to counter the Communist Chinese drive to dominate and own the region.

Mac-7
08-09-2016, 09:34 AM
I'm not sure what Obama could do. I doubt diplomacy would be effective, and threatening China seems like a bad idea.

We could begin by ending the $500 bil annual trade deficit with china

the money china makes selling cheap junk in America is funding their military expansion.

Crepitus
08-09-2016, 09:46 AM
Obama isnt doing anything to stop it, he just sits around like a pile worrying about screwing half of americans
This isn't about bombs and guns, it's economic warfare with a battle in the court of world opinion and some sabre rattling thrown in for fun.

MisterVeritis
08-09-2016, 09:54 AM
This isn't about bombs and guns, it's economic warfare with a battle in the court of world opinion and some sabre rattling thrown in for fun.
Effective policy is backed by an effective strategy to implement it. The Chinese strategy includes military moves to intimidate nations in the region. When the time is right it may include military moves to keep the US out of the South China Sea.

Chris
08-09-2016, 10:21 AM
exotix has been banned at the request of the OP, Common. Please do not respond to exotix any further in this thread. If you have questions contact the OP of this tPF thread.

Crepitus
08-09-2016, 05:58 PM
Effective policy is backed by an effective strategy to implement it. The Chinese strategy includes military moves to intimidate nations in the region. When the time is right it may include military moves to keep the US out of the South China Sea.
Sabre rattling. No way they would come to blows with the US. We are their biggest market, tons of their money is invest over here. They won't risk it.

MisterVeritis
08-09-2016, 06:01 PM
Sabre rattling. No way they would come to blows with the US. We are their biggest market, tons of their money is invest over here. They won't risk it.
Control of the South China Sea region is worth trillions in new wealth. Nations go to war for far less.

Bo-4
08-09-2016, 06:10 PM
What should Obama do .. bomb China?

Seriously - do you think tough always wins when it comes to diplomacy and negotiation?

If so, light the scented candles on your Bush Shrine.

http://internetweekly.org/images/bushhide.jpg

MisterVeritis
08-09-2016, 06:12 PM
What should Obama do .. bomb China?

Seriously - do you think tough always wins when it comes to diplomacy and negotiation?

If so, light the scented candles on your Bush Shrine.

http://internetweekly.org/images/bushhide.jpg
Is the quote function that difficult to master?

Common
08-09-2016, 06:13 PM
This has alot of implications that need to be sorted out. I disagree with peter that china is to just be scoffed at, especially with its blossoming relationship with russia

Bo-4
08-09-2016, 06:14 PM
Is the quote function that difficult to master?

Didn't quote anyone Gomer, and no need to waste bandwidth when replying to Common's ALWAYS lengthy OPs.

Maybe you should talk to Tahu, hOboe and Mac who haven't been able to master the "reply with quote" feature on replies to OPs?

MisterVeritis
08-09-2016, 06:17 PM
Didn't quote anyone Gomer, and no need to waste bandwidth when replying to Common's ALWAYS lengthy OPs.

Maybe you should talk to Tahu and Mac who haven't been able to master the "reply with quote" feature on replies to OPs?
It is difficult to tell who you are responding to if you don't bother to quote, Gomer.

Bo-4
08-09-2016, 06:19 PM
It is difficult to tell who you are responding to if you don't bother to quote, Gomer.

Not if you get smart and use the "threaded view" Goober.

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/1130thetiger.com/files/2012/05/wkrn-tv.jpg