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View Full Version : Romney wins on style, Obama on Facts



Cigar
10-04-2012, 08:30 AM
If you score Wednesday’s debate largely on the basis of which candidate for president exuded a rambunctious energy, it was Gov. Romney all the way.

(snip)
If, however, you score Wednesday’s debate on substance — accurate facts and honest arithmetic — Obama more than held his own. He drove home the false promises and dangerous ramifications of Romney’s proposed tax cuts, which would surely raise taxes for the middle class by eliminating breaks, such as the home mortgage deduction, and require the elimination of essential programs, such as student loan subsidies.

“I believe Gov. Romney genuinely cares about education,” Obama said. “But when he says student should borrow from their parents to go, many . . . just don’t have that option.”

The president was especially strong in picking apart Romney’s ill-conceived plan to turn Medicare into a voucher program, which independent analysts say would leave elderly Americans down the road at the mercy of private insurance companies. Maybe those vouchers would cover the bill, but quite likely they would not over time, even as traditional fee-for-service Medicare would wither away.

http://www.suntimes.com/opinions/15535810-474/editorial-romney-wins-on-style-obama-on-facts.html

Romney lied about this tax policy and his tax-cut plans--which would cut $4 trillion in taxes for upper-income millionaires and billionaires. Romney has run on this tax policy for more than a year, and he has also run on the his plan to voucherize Medicare. Romney also denied that.

Romney lied about this healthcare plan, revealing tonight that he had a plan to cover people with pre-existing conditions even though he has promised to repeal Obamacare on day one.

Obama's head must have been spinning--and that was the plan. Romney knew they couldn't win on substance and that their ideas would be rejected. So they decided to just deny the basic tenants of their campaign.

Listen folks. This was a very deliberate strategy. Romney would lie and frustrate Obama--and it worked. No one, including the President--expected such sheer depravity.

When you agree to debate an opponent--you expect that they will stand up for the ideas on which their entire campaign has been based. Romney didn't even ADMIT his ideas! He called Obama a liar for spelling out Romney's own ideas that he's been showcasing for years.

No, Obama didn't lie. Obama presented Mitt with his own longs-held ideas and tried to debate him. Romney lied and said they weren't his ideas.

You could see the look of frustration on Obama's face. Fifteen minutes into this debate and it was very clear to our President that they were game playing. But you know what? That's the look of a President who is not about games. Obama wanted to have a substantive debate, but couldn't, because his opponent chose rancor and nonsense over wisdom and sincerity. That's the look and frustration of a President who wants to have an honest, rational discussion with America--but can't because his opponent is too busy playing oneupmanship with lies.

Now Mitt will have to explain everything he said during the debate ...

birddog
10-04-2012, 08:37 AM
Watch out cigar! Your pants are on fire!!

Chris
10-04-2012, 08:44 AM
I think truth has lost all meaning in politics.


Did you know that one-third of children in Ohio are enrolled in Medicaid? Neither did I, until last week when I picked up a copy of the Bucyrus (Ohio) Telegraph-Forum and read down to the seventh paragraph of a story headlined, "Study says more children have health insurance."

The positive spin in the headline was undercut by the statistical facts of the story: "The increase in children on insurance comes as median incomes across the state were relatively flat, and the percentage of families in poverty -- especially those with children -- rose slightly." An increase in poverty, in other words, actually reduced the number of uninsured children by qualifying them for coverage under a government program for the poor. Such was the substance of the explanation by Angela Krile, spokeswoman for the Ohio Children's Hospital Association, who said: "Really, this just shows the importance of Medicaid in our state for children."

Americans have become accustomed to this sort of "good news" in the Obama era, and there was more of it in that small-town Ohio paper. "Unemployment remains the same," declared the headline across the top of the front page. The story explained that, although the official unemployment rate in Crawford County, Ohio (population 43,389) declined from 9 percent in July to 8 percent in August, it wasn't because more people were working. "Since the number of employed stayed the same, 200 people went off of unemployment because their time limit is up and they have not found work yet," Dave Williamson, director of the Crawford County Economic Development Partnership, told the Bucyrus paper. "We have no more people working than we did last month."

<snip>

Whatever Happened to Truth? (http://spectator.org/archives/2012/10/03/whatever-happened-to-truth)

GrassrootsConservative
10-04-2012, 08:57 AM
I think truth has lost all meaning in politics.



Whatever Happened to Truth? (http://spectator.org/archives/2012/10/03/whatever-happened-to-truth)

Truth? TRUTH?
Ha ha fuckin ha.
Demorats don't care about truth.

coolwalker
10-04-2012, 08:58 AM
The only fact is that Obama looked and was unprepared. He is the president for God's sake! He should be prepared for anything, and everything. Sadly, he looked scared, confused and very angry. Couldn't even make eye contact which is a sign of fear of the other person and that you are basically unarmed. Romney was calm, cool, collected and came armed with facts that Obama couldn't even get straight. Cigar...your hero is a loser!

Cigar
10-04-2012, 09:20 AM
Do you care to discuss the topic of post #1 ... ?

GrassrootsConservative
10-04-2012, 09:22 AM
Do you care to discuss the topic of post #1 ... ?

We've discussed it. We've decided it's lies.

Calypso Jones
10-04-2012, 09:28 AM
style. are you kidding me. Mr. PRESIDEBT MTV. You can spin this fiasco anyway you want. It won't change the fact that Most of Americans know the truth and they don't like what mr. obama is cooking. don't worry though,cig. Even Mr. Obama said that you can survive 4 years of Romney. The right is gonna drag you into prosperity in spite of you digging in your heels. And hopefully into a renewed spirit and vigor for this country and it's constitution. you'll live.

truthmatters
10-04-2012, 09:29 AM
This big "win" ois going to come back to bite the robmoney

Deadwood
10-04-2012, 09:31 AM
Took a whole night for your story to completely reverse course.

Last night, immediately following the debate:

http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/6877-Mitt-Won-this-Debate

I agree .. Mitt did an excellent job in this debate, he surprised me.



I’m not Voting for Mitt because Mitt will do exactly what Mitt said he will do, and I don’t want what Mitt and Republicans wants to do.
I’m not Voting for Mitt because I believe Mitt believes exactly in the words that have come precisely out of his mouth, both publicly and privately.
I’m not Voting for Mitt because his party will put America last over Party his party and have proven that time and time again.
I’m not Voting for Mitt because I believe President Obama is for 100% of Americans, not just the 53% and $50k a plate donors.
I’m not Voting for Mitt because Republicans had the White House for 8 years and it ended in a CRASH that America is still recovering from 4 years later.

None of the real questions that I'm concerned with ever came out.

Congratulations Mitt you did a great Job. :icon_salut:


From unconditional praise to spin.....


You're good, Herman Georging would be proud.

Deadwood
10-04-2012, 09:32 AM
I think truth has lost all meaning in politics.



Whatever Happened to Truth? (http://spectator.org/archives/2012/10/03/whatever-happened-to-truth)



The Nixon/Kennedy debate proved that...

coolwalker
10-04-2012, 09:36 AM
Do you care to discuss the topic of post #1 ... ?

The air is leaking out of your hot-air balloon; you'd better set it down before you crash and burn!

truthmatters
10-04-2012, 09:37 AM
so you claim this one lie filled debate will change the entire election?

patrickt
10-04-2012, 09:38 AM
Flop sweat isn't pretty. Has anyone lied more that President "Transparency" Obama? Bills on CSpan for days before they're voted on. No lobbyists in the White House. Bipartisan. Post-racial. The man is a walking insult to honesty.

It is obvious why the President chooses to hang out with the ladies on The View and late night television hosts who are in the bag for the left.

truthmatters
10-04-2012, 09:50 AM
Go get the proof that those things are what you claim they are.

You people lie all the fucking time and REQUIRE fact checking

texmaster
10-04-2012, 09:58 AM
http://desertpeace.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/grasping-at-straws1.jpg

Calypso Jones
10-04-2012, 10:01 AM
no it won't. you're gonna be okay. This is going to be great for this country. Romney was almost reaganesque last nite. We can't afford four more years of a guy that is intent on destroying this country from the inside out.

Calypso Jones
10-04-2012, 10:02 AM
Go get the proof that those things are what you claim they are.

You people lie all the fucking time and REQUIRE fact checking

what lie are you talking about. EVEN leftist spinners are saying Romney won and they are not saying anything about lies. Because there were none. The lie has been everything that has happened in campaign time during 2008 and from then on.

truthmatters
10-04-2012, 10:04 AM
there is a whole thread in the lies and you have seen it.

why are you now lying and pretending they were not outlined?

coolwalker
10-04-2012, 10:04 AM
so you claim this one lie filled debate will change the entire election?

Not to an idiot...but to any thinking, knowledgeable individual, the tide is turning. I really think you need a Quaalude to stop your shaking.

GrassrootsConservative
10-04-2012, 10:09 AM
to any thinking, knowledgeable individual

I believe this is where we have a problem.

Chris
10-04-2012, 10:11 AM
there is a whole thread in the lies and you have seen it.

why are you now lying and pretending they were not outlined?

Sounds to me like your thinking goes like this: "I'm right, therefore it's a lie, and you're a liar."

But that's not logical, it's emotional, your premise hasn't been established, just because you think it's so doesn't make it so, and then you need to connect right/wrong with truth/lie.

Good luck.

Cigar
10-04-2012, 10:14 AM
The air is leaking out of your hot-air balloon; you'd better set it down before you crash and burn!

Balloons are for children ... not to worry ... Mitt now has to Back Up what he said.

Good Luck on that one.

birddog
10-04-2012, 10:17 AM
Mitt will make a great President, dontcha think Cigar?

Calypso Jones
10-04-2012, 10:17 AM
Do you care to discuss the topic of post #1 ... ?

what's there to discuss. You're wrong.

Calypso Jones
10-04-2012, 10:20 AM
Balloons are for children ... not to worry ... Mitt now has to Back Up what he said.

Good Luck on that one.

something tells me that this is not gonna be a problem.

Cigar
10-04-2012, 10:20 AM
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b137/chasc5/121004-winning-a-debate-romney-style.jpg
Now comes the Analysts ... it's like a really good smoke after some really good Sex!

Unless of course ... Mitt never cleared the Zipper before his Ooppps. :)

Cigar
10-04-2012, 10:21 AM
“Obama is depending on people's intelligence. Romney is depending on people's ignorance.”

coolwalker
10-04-2012, 10:25 AM
“Obama is depending on people's intelligence. Romney is depending on people's ignorance.”

Ah dude, reverse that. It is pure rhetoric that Obama relies on. It's all he has...it's all he has ever had. Words, phrases out of the Guide to Socialism.

GrassrootsConservative
10-04-2012, 10:26 AM
“Obama is depending on people's intelligence. Romney is depending on people's ignorance.”

Nope. It's backwards of what you just said.
Romney depends on America being more intelligent than Obama thinks they are. Obama is running on America being less intelligent than Scarygrunt.

Cigar
10-04-2012, 10:33 AM
Nope. It's backwards of what you just said.
Romney depends on America being more intelligent than Obama thinks they are. Obama is running on America being less intelligent than Scarygrunt.

Let's see who goes back on their story first ... Mitt of Barack :)

coolwalker
10-04-2012, 10:39 AM
Let's see who goes back on their story first ... Mitt of Barack :)

Mitt of Barack huh? That would be Sir Mitt of Barack to you.

Cigar
10-04-2012, 10:46 AM
Did you notice the smile on Barack's face when he was writing down Mitt's lies?

It's like he was trying to figure out how much Rope Mitt will need to hang himself. Obama is a master chess player that has his moves planned about 10 steps ahead. You win the debate by allowing that person to spew out all their misinformation and let the critics decide who knew their subject matter the best. Obama didn't have to go for the kill - he just laid the rope out there and let Mitt do it to himself.

Mitt's going to die a death of a thousand razor blade cuts ... and Obama is just going to throw Mitt one band-aide! :)

coolwalker
10-04-2012, 10:53 AM
Did you notice the smile on Barack's face when he was writing down Mitt's lies?

It's like he was trying to figure out how much Rope Mitt will need to hang himself. Obama is a master chess player that has his moves planned about 10 steps ahead. You win the debate by allowing that person to spew out all their misinformation and let the critics decide who knew their subject matter the best. Obama didn't have to go for the kill - he just laid the rope out there and let Mitt do it to himself.

Mitt's going to die a death of a thousand razor blade cuts ... and Obama is just going to throw Mitt one band-aide! :)

If that was what he was writing, it's strange he didn't say anything about these so called lies. He was simply avoiding eye contact because he was furious...furious that here he is, the sitting president and Romney knows more about government and programs than he does. And it showed!

Cigar
10-04-2012, 10:55 AM
If that was what he was writing, it's strange he didn't say anything about these so called lies. He was simply avoiding eye contact because he was furious...furious that here he is, the sitting president and Romney knows more about government and programs than he does. And it showed!

Go ahead and do your End-Zone Dance ... but remember, this is the 1st Quarter. :)

coolwalker
10-04-2012, 11:12 AM
Go ahead and do your End-Zone Dance ... but remember, this is the 1st Quarter. :)

Yep, and we will stay in the end zone. Personally I really was saddened for Obama. It must have struck him to the quick that he was out-foxed, out-distanced and proven to be unaware of how a government functions. I'm still more saddened for the rest of us who have had to endure his ineptitude for 4 years.

Chris
10-04-2012, 11:15 AM
Did you notice the smile on Barack's face when he was writing down Mitt's lies?

Smile, or smirk? Looked like the latter to me. It's little things like that could kill a race. Nixon's sweating, Gore's signs...

Cigar
10-04-2012, 11:33 AM
Yep, and we will stay in the end zone. Personally I really was saddened for Obama. It must have struck him to the quick that he was out-foxed, out-distanced and proven to be unaware of how a government functions. I'm still more saddened for the rest of us who have had to endure his ineptitude for 4 years.

So you're going to stay in the End-Zone through all 4 Quarters ... Brilliant :)

Calypso Jones
10-04-2012, 11:45 AM
SEems with that many lies you'd be able to post the first couple of them. Can ya?

Cigar
10-04-2012, 11:47 AM
SEems with that many lies you'd be able to post the first couple of them. Can ya?

Read my Threads sport and learn

Calypso Jones
10-04-2012, 08:20 PM
Read my Threads sport and learn

If you're so intent on teaching then post them.

Calypso Jones
10-04-2012, 08:22 PM
Cutter forced to concede that Obama's lie that Romney will cut 5 trill in taxes is BS

http://weaselzippers.us/2012/10/04/cutter-forced-to-concede-obamas-claim-romney-will-cut-5-trillion-in-taxes-is-bs/

Chris
10-04-2012, 08:53 PM
Liberals 'freak out' after Obama's poor debate performance (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/10/04/liberals-freak-out-after-obama-poor-debate-performance/#ixzz28NvypQJl)
...When the Rocky Mountain debate came to an end, a black cloud descended on the liberal off-shoot of NBC. “A CNN/ORC poll of registered voters who watched the debate in Denver showed 67 percent believe Romney won the debate, while just 25 percent said Obama won,” the Hill reported.

For MSNBCers, it was a sign of The End Times. Perennial Obama Fan Club President Chris Matthews lamented the whole ordeal, whining this “wasn’t an MSNBC debate, was it? It just wasn’t.”

Matthews erupted into a vein-throbbing rant about how Obama should be watching MSNBC to learn his debate talking points. “Where was Obama tonight?! He should watch, well not just 'Hardball,' Rachel [Maddow], he should watch you, he should watch the Reverend Al [Sharpton], he should watch Lawrence [O'Donnell]. He would learn something about this debate,” he vented. Perhaps the new soundtrack for “Hardball,” will be “After The Thrill Is Gone.”

Fellow MSNBC host Ed Schultz echoed the panic and added Obama “created a problem for himself on Social Security tonight. He agrees with Mitt Romney.” “I was absolutely stunned tonight,” Schultz concluded. In fact, MSNBC’s focus group of “undecideds,” all thought Romney did well.

...

It goes on and on: Bill Maher, Michael Moore, Ezra Klein, Paul Krugman, NYT, CBS, etc, a long funeral procession.

http://i.snag.gy/NBbCL.jpg

Calypso Jones
10-04-2012, 09:01 PM
I don't think Obama would recognize a fact if it snuck up behind him and bit his butt. BULL on his 'facts'. I have NEVER seen such gnashing of teeth and misery after this debate. I swear I am surprised that someone didn't commit hara kiri. I hear members of Team Obama were INconsolable.

roadmaster
10-04-2012, 09:29 PM
“I believe Gov. Romney genuinely cares about education,” Obama said. “But when he says student should borrow from their parents to go, many . . . just don’t have that option.”

I have a hard time believing Obama does. When Perdue a D said illegals could sign up for classes in colleges here in NC but legals of all races would be first in line that didn't happen. The illegals stepped in front of the ones that had been waiting for years to get into a program. Who are we looking out for, our own or the ones crossing the border?

Deadwood
10-04-2012, 10:02 PM
Let's see who goes back on their story first ... Mitt of Barack :)
'

Actually it was you, Cigar.

The guy who was admitting that Mitt Romney won, flat out, hands down, then eight hours later tried to spin it.

Respect gone.

roadmaster
10-04-2012, 10:06 PM
Mitt won, especially here in NC.

Peter1469
10-05-2012, 04:38 AM
Debates are about style. If Obama was a good debater he would have pointed out these alleged lies during the debate....

Cigar
10-05-2012, 07:08 AM
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b137/chasc5/36333_434886209882414_486102477_n.jpg