tPF Tensions Mount as Native American Tribe Fights to Block Oil Pipeline [Archive]

TrueBlue

09-07-2016, 11:12 PM

Tensions Mount as Native American Tribe Fights to Block Oil Pipeline
By CATHERINE THORBECKE

http://abcnews.go.com/US/tensions-mount-native-american-tribe-fights-block-oil/story?id=41891717

"A multibillion-dollar pipeline being built through land claimed by Native Americans to be culturally sensitive has sparked outrage, protest and heartbreak among tribe members who say sacred sites are being “bulldozed.”
"A judge ordered a temporary halt to construction on part of the 1,172-mile Dakota Access pipeline after tensions between protesters and workers escalated over the weekend. Witnesses say private security workers unleashed pepper spray (http://abcnews.go.com/topics/news/pepper-spray.htm) and pit bulls on a crowd of men, women, and some children who were protesting the pipeline over the weekend. But authorities say the protesters became aggressive, nearly overwhelming the workers and security at the construction site. The Morton County Sheriff’s Office told ABC News that three workers were injured by protesters; tribal officials reported that 30 protesters were hit with by pepper spray and 12 more were bitten by dogs."

"These were grave sites and these were these people’s ancestors buried here," Dallas Goldtooth, who said he witnessed the protest, told ABC News. "What happened on Saturday was that Dakota Access bulldozed right through a sacred site." Goldtooth added that the conflict escalated quickly when Dakota Access workers plowed through what was believed to be a newly discovered sacred site on private land before state officials could come and survey the area."

========================================
Thanks to ABC News for this report.

Imho, It is a dire shame that sacred land has to be disturbed in such a despicable way just to make the almighty dollar. Native Americans are suffering immensely and there are great environmental concerns, as well as with the water that could become contaminated. But the bodies of their ancestors stand to be greatly disturbed and that can never be a good thing under any circumstances.

The forum rules will be strictly observed by participants in this thread or non-conforming members will be thread banned.

If You Don't Like What Is Being Discussed In the OP You Can Always Do the Courteous Thing and Just Leave the Thread.

Captain Obvious

09-07-2016, 11:16 PM

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/fd/fd583f3ba52cff7d5d70e8ded937de22a08ae76152d26b0867 90f460ad545e23.jpg

valley ranch

09-08-2016, 01:29 AM

Just like in the Movies!

Saudi Arabia couldn't do it better.

donttread

09-08-2016, 07:22 AM

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:27 AM

Maybe we should see if jack Daniels will help us out :) "We need this pipeline, and we's got some nice Whiskey"

It worked once???? Who knows?

Chloe

09-08-2016, 07:40 AM

Tensions Mount as Native American Tribe Fights to Block Oil Pipeline
By CATHERINE THORBECKE

http://abcnews.go.com/US/tensions-mount-native-american-tribe-fights-block-oil/story?id=41891717

========================================
Thanks to ABC News for this report.

Imho, It is a dire shame that sacred land has to be disturbed in such a despicable way just to make the almighty dollar. Native Americans are suffering immensely and there are great environmental concerns, as well as with the water that could become contaminated. But the bodies of their ancestors stand to be greatly disturbed and that can never be a good thing under any circumstances.

The forum rules will be strictly observed by participants in this thread or non-conforming members will be thread banned.

If You Don't Like What Is Being Discussed In the OP You Can Always Do the Courteous Thing and Just Leave the Thread.

See this is why I question your sincerity sometimes. Here you post a story about this pipeline affecting this tribe and the probable affects on the environment but yet on the other thread abou Jill Stein having a warrant for her arrest you thank the OP's mocking of Stein and basically dismiss her. The irony is that the warrant out for Jill Stein is for trespassing and vandalism, but the place that she was trespassing was on this land with the tribe protesting the actions, and the "vandalism" was her spray painting a message of support for the tribe on the bulldozer that is being used to destroy their land. That's a leader that truly invests.

You mock Stein on another thread about the same issue yet she was physically there in support of this tribe and the environmental impact that you supposedly now care about by posting this article. You probably didn't know that this is what Stein is getting in trouble for because you dismiss Stein, but would you have cared about this if you would have known that this is where Stein was at and defending and what led to her warrant? She was there supporting the tribe and protesting against the destruction of their land and the environmental impact of the pipeline. She was walking the walk basically. Where is Hillary with regards to this? I can promise you that she doesn't care enough to find the time to physically go there and take the risks that Stein does/did, and if she did it would only be to pander and campaign for money that would go towards her war chest and not the tribe or to stop the pipeline.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:43 AM

See this is why I question your sincerity sometimes. Here you post a story about this pipeline affecting this tribe and the probable affects on the environment but yet on the other thread abou Jill Stein having a warrant for her arrest you thank the OP's mocking of Stein and basically dismiss her. The irony is that the warrant for Jill Stein is for trespassing and vandalism and the place that she was trespassing was on this land with the tribe protesting the actions, and the "vandalism" was her spray painting a message of support for the tribe on the bulldozer that is being used to destroy their land. That's a leader that truly invests.

You mock Stein on another thread about the same issue yet she was physically there in support of this tribe and the environmental impact that you supposedly now care about by posting this article. You probably didn't know that this is what Stein is getting in trouble for because you dismiss Stein, but would you have cared about this if you would have known that this is where Stein was at and defending and what led to her warrant? She was there supporting the tribe and protesting against the destruction and environmental impact of the pipeline. She was walking the walk basically. Where is Hillary with regards to this? I can promise you she doesn't care enough to find the time to physically go there and take the risks that Stein does/did, and if she did it would only be to pander and campaign for money that would go then towards her war chest and not the tribe or to stop the pipeline.

If she was trespassing, and did vandalize the Equipment, she should be held accountable.

I am sure that she understood what could happen when she did it.

Chloe

09-08-2016, 07:44 AM

If she was trespassing, and did vandalize the Equipment, she should be held accountable.

I am sure that she understood what could happen when she did it.

That wasn't my point

Mister D

09-08-2016, 07:45 AM

lol TrueBlue that looks real bad, hoss. :laugh:

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 08:44 AM

Maybe we should see if jack Daniels will help us out :) "We need this pipeline, and we's got some nice Whiskey"

It worked once???? Who knows?

There are times when I have a lot of respect for you, and then there are those times you say something sickening and I have to take some away.

Chloe

09-08-2016, 11:21 AM

There are times when I have a lot of respect for you, and then there are those times you say something sickening and I have to take some away.

i agree

Cletus

09-08-2016, 11:55 AM

It appears this incident took place on private land. It was not on the rez and it was not at any established "sacred site".

birddog

09-08-2016, 12:02 PM

Maybe we should see if jack Daniels will help us out :) "We need this pipeline, and we's got some nice Whiskey"

It worked once???? Who knows?

Be careful, some around here don't have a sense of humor.:grin:

donttread

09-08-2016, 12:38 PM

Maybe we should see if jack Daniels will help us out :) "We need this pipeline, and we's got some nice Whiskey"

It worked once???? Who knows?

It's real. Their bodies were not acclimated to alcohol like the Europeons, as many tribes used drugs or alcohol only in a ceremonial way. . But they still have a much high incidence of alcoholism than does the general population. That might however be excluding the Irish. LOL

AZ Jim

09-08-2016, 12:40 PM

Oh those damn American Indians. They struggle every time we try to screw them. Savages.

TrueBlue

09-08-2016, 12:42 PM

See this is why I question your sincerity sometimes. Here you post a story about this pipeline affecting this tribe and the probable affects on the environment but yet on the other thread abou Jill Stein having a warrant for her arrest you thank the OP's mocking of Stein and basically dismiss her. The irony is that the warrant out for Jill Stein is for trespassing and vandalism, but the place that she was trespassing was on this land with the tribe protesting the actions, and the "vandalism" was her spray painting a message of support for the tribe on the bulldozer that is being used to destroy their land. That's a leader that truly invests.

You mock Stein on another thread about the same issue yet she was physically there in support of this tribe and the environmental impact that you supposedly now care about by posting this article. You probably didn't know that this is what Stein is getting in trouble for because you dismiss Stein, but would you have cared about this if you would have known that this is where Stein was at and defending and what led to her warrant? She was there supporting the tribe and protesting against the destruction of their land and the environmental impact of the pipeline. She was walking the walk basically. Where is Hillary with regards to this? I can promise you that she doesn't care enough to find the time to physically go there and take the risks that Stein does/did, and if she did it would only be to pander and campaign for money that would go towards her war chest and not the tribe or to stop the pipeline.
And yet if Stein had even mattered to them they would have cheerfully named her by her name and even given kudos to her. Yet that was not seen. If the law felt that the warrant was issued due to an infraction of the law then we must let them take care of the matter and see it through. That's what this is about.

donttread

09-08-2016, 03:49 PM

See this is why I question your sincerity sometimes. Here you post a story about this pipeline affecting this tribe and the probable affects on the environment but yet on the other thread abou Jill Stein having a warrant for her arrest you thank the OP's mocking of Stein and basically dismiss her. The irony is that the warrant out for Jill Stein is for trespassing and vandalism, but the place that she was trespassing was on this land with the tribe protesting the actions, and the "vandalism" was her spray painting a message of support for the tribe on the bulldozer that is being used to destroy their land. That's a leader that truly invests.

You mock Stein on another thread about the same issue yet she was physically there in support of this tribe and the environmental impact that you supposedly now care about by posting this article. You probably didn't know that this is what Stein is getting in trouble for because you dismiss Stein, but would you have cared about this if you would have known that this is where Stein was at and defending and what led to her warrant? She was there supporting the tribe and protesting against the destruction of their land and the environmental impact of the pipeline. She was walking the walk basically. Where is Hillary with regards to this? I can promise you that she doesn't care enough to find the time to physically go there and take the risks that Stein does/did, and if she did it would only be to pander and campaign for money that would go towards her war chest and not the tribe or to stop the pipeline.

That's because True either is a DNC plant or has turned himself into one. In fact True if you read this, most of have some disagreement with our parties platform and actions. Tell me about where you part ways with the dems on certain issues. Chloe has a hell of a point. You're not supporting envirnomentalism, you're simply supporting whatever the DNC tells you too even where such support is so hypocritical.

donttread

09-08-2016, 03:51 PM

And yet if Stein had even mattered to them they would have cheerfully named her by her name and even given kudos to her. Yet that was not seen. If the law felt that the warrant was issued due to an infraction of the law then we must let them take care of the matter and see it through. That's what this is about.

But Hilary gets to walk. ? How do you reconsile the hypocrisy the DNC demands of you?

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 03:59 PM

Oh those damn American Indians. They struggle every time we try to screw them. Savages.

Isn't it 2016 and time for them to assimilate into the mainstream American culture?

If they want to be a separate nation, let them live without subsistence from the taxpayers.

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 04:01 PM

But Hilary gets to walk. ? How do you reconsile the hypocrisy the DNC demands of you?

Mrs.Clinton can committ felonious crimes and the partisan Democrats cheer when the corrupt administration protects her.

Bo-4

09-08-2016, 04:02 PM

Maybe we should see if jack Daniels will help us out :) "We need this pipeline, and we's got some nice Whiskey"

It worked once???? Who knows?

Oh no you dint!

Sad :(

Bo-4

09-08-2016, 04:03 PM

Be careful, some around here don't have a sense of humor.:grin:

Including those on your side apparently.

Bo-4

09-08-2016, 04:09 PM

See this is why I question your sincerity sometimes. Here you post a story about this pipeline affecting this tribe and the probable affects on the environment but yet on the other thread abou Jill Stein having a warrant for her arrest you thank the OP's mocking of Stein and basically dismiss her. The irony is that the warrant out for Jill Stein is for trespassing and vandalism, but the place that she was trespassing was on this land with the tribe protesting the actions, and the "vandalism" was her spray painting a message of support for the tribe on the bulldozer that is being used to destroy their land. That's a leader that truly invests.

You mock Stein on another thread about the same issue yet she was physically there in support of this tribe and the environmental impact that you supposedly now care about by posting this article. You probably didn't know that this is what Stein is getting in trouble for because you dismiss Stein, but would you have cared about this if you would have known that this is where Stein was at and defending and what led to her warrant? She was there supporting the tribe and protesting against the destruction of their land and the environmental impact of the pipeline. She was walking the walk basically. Where is Hillary with regards to this? I can promise you that she doesn't care enough to find the time to physically go there and take the risks that Stein does/did, and if she did it would only be to pander and campaign for money that would go towards her war chest and not the tribe or to stop the pipeline.

Chloe, i concur. I don't know how one can "deface" the business end of a dozer that within a few days of use will wear off.

You won on this one. THIS is "defacing"

http://www.takepart.com/sites/default/files/styles/homepage_featured_image/public/nationalparkspromo.jpg?itok=PkbtgXeN

Cletus

09-08-2016, 04:40 PM

Chloe, i concur. I don't know how one can "deface" the business end of a dozer that within a few days of use will wear off.

Whether it will wear off is not the point. It was private property and she vandalized it. She needs to accept the consequences of breaking the law.

Bo-4

09-08-2016, 04:44 PM

Whether it will wear off is not the point. It was private property and she vandalized it. She needs to accept the consequences of breaking the law.

Wanna make sure you understand that i'm defending Jill .. not clowns who deface (or topple) awesome rocks.

What a dirt dumb thing to put a warrant out for her arrest!

Bo-4

09-08-2016, 04:47 PM

Isn't it 2016 and time for them to assimilate into the mainstream American culture?

If they want to be a separate nation, let them live without subsistence from the taxpayers.

Isn't it 2016 and time for us to provide them a modicum of respect for the fact that we stole THEIR lands, killed them by the thousands and put them on reservations?

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 04:52 PM

Isn't it 2016 and time for us to provide them a modicum of respect for the fact that we stole THEIR lands, killed them by the thousands and put them on reservations?

They had no defined lands when the Europeans came here. They were a primitive, nomadic unorganized mess. They hadn't even invented the wheel. They were the equivalent of prehistoric man.

They should feel fortunate that we came here and created the greatest nation in the history of the world. They have benefited greatly from our presence.

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 04:55 PM

When we honor their heritage by naming things we respect as a nation after them, people like you complain.

AeonPax

09-08-2016, 04:57 PM

`
`
I was considering going there to help. Protesting, moral support, especially if Jill Stein is willing to stick her neck out like that.

exploited

09-08-2016, 04:58 PM

Isn't it 2016 and time for them to assimilate into the mainstream American culture?

If they want to be a separate nation, let them live without subsistence from the taxpayers.

Most tribes would take this option in a heart-beat, assuming that the land was contiguous and that they had sovereign authority over it.

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 05:06 PM

Most tribes would take this option in a heart-beat, assuming that the land was contiguous and that they had sovereign authority over it.

They would not take that option.

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 05:46 PM

They had no defined lands when the Europeans came here. They were a primitive, nomadic unorganized mess. They hadn't even invented the wheel. They were the equivalent of prehistoric man.

They should feel fortunate that we came here and created the greatest nation in the history of the world. They have benefited greatly from our presence.

Yes, and Jews should be greatful for Hitler's leadership of Germany. After all, it ended with them getting their homeland back. So what if it almost wiped them all out?

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 05:48 PM

Yes, and Jews should be greatful for Hitler's leadership of Germany. After all, it ended with them getting their homeland back. So what if it almost wiped them all out?

You lose credibility when you make idiotic comments.

del

09-08-2016, 05:48 PM

You lose credibility when you make idiotic comments.

it never stopped you

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 05:52 PM

You lose credibility when you make idiotic comments.

Idiotic comments, like claiming Native Americans should be grateful that they were nearly made extinct by white Europeans because hey, the white Europeans created a "great" country out of their lands that they get little part of?

Bo-4

09-08-2016, 06:05 PM

They had no defined lands when the Europeans came here. They were a primitive, nomadic unorganized mess. They hadn't even invented the wheel. They were the equivalent of prehistoric man.

They should feel fortunate that we came here and created the greatest nation in the history of the world. They have benefited greatly from our presence.

CLOWN ALERT!!

Fucking sad Tahu .. SERIOUS

http://www.kosair.com/circus/clownwaving.gif

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 06:08 PM

CLOWN ALERT!!

$#@!ing sad Tahu .. SERIOUS

http://www.kosair.com/circus/clownwaving.gif

That's persuasive.....

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 06:10 PM

Idiotic comments, like claiming Native Americans should be grateful that they were nearly made extinct by white Europeans because hey, the white Europeans created a "great" country out of their lands that they get little part of?

They weren't nearly made extinct. That's twisting the truth in Gumby-like proportions.

Everyone currently in this nation is better off because they simply are here.

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 06:16 PM

They weren't nearly made extinct. That's twisting the truth in Gumby-like proportions.

It's the truth. Maybe you should educate yourself before you open your mouth.

Bo-4

09-08-2016, 06:21 PM

It's the truth. Maybe you should educate yourself before you open your mouth.

FAT chance

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 06:56 PM

It's the truth. Maybe you should educate yourself before you open your mouth.

Whatever...... You kids are supremely informed.

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 07:04 PM

Whatever...... You kids are supremely informed.

No, you're just an idiot.

Chloe

09-08-2016, 07:05 PM

Whether it will wear off is not the point. It was private property and she vandalized it. She needs to accept the consequences of breaking the law.

She is/has, emphatically actually

Chloe

09-08-2016, 07:07 PM

And yet if Stein had even mattered to them they would have cheerfully named her by her name and even given kudos to her. Yet that was not seen. If the law felt that the warrant was issued due to an infraction of the law then we must let them take care of the matter and see it through. That's what this is about.

Was it not? Did you do as much research on that as you did the previous thread that you thanked and this one that you posted? You also don't seem as caring about Clinton's legal troubles which are much greater as you do this misdemeanor by Stein.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:09 PM

There are times when I have a lot of respect for you, and then there are those times you say something sickening and I have to take some away.

Oh for goodness sakes I was Kidding, that is why I put the smiley face.

It is there land, the oil companies should have to come to and agreement with them or Go around! I just didn't care enough to make a huge issue out of it?

Ethereal

09-08-2016, 07:10 PM

Stein spray-painted something... hardened criminal, that one.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:13 PM

It's the truth. Maybe you should educate yourself before you open your mouth.

Certainly, there were issues, some tribes were peaceful, some were not. Some sided with the British during the Revolutionary War, and that left a bad feeling toward those tribes.

Were there atrocities committed? YES, on both sides, but every nation has that history.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:14 PM

Oh no you dint!

Sad :(

The left appears to have no sense of humor at all! Good Grief.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:17 PM

i agree

Really???? Do you know what that Smiley face was designed to represent????

Do you really think that there is a tribe today that would trade land for Whiskey???

This is what makes me want to push liberals down. They can't laugh anymore.

Chloe

09-08-2016, 07:18 PM

Really???? Do you know what that Smiley face was designed to represent????

Do you really think that there is a tribe today that would trade land for Whiskey???

This is what makes me want to push liberals down. They can't laugh anymore.

Not everything is funny. You can make a joke but that doesn't mean everybody will laugh just because you did.

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 07:20 PM

Oh for goodness sakes I was Kidding, that is why I put the smiley face.

If I made a joke about how the ovens clearly weren't big enough in Hitler's concentration camps because he couldn't kill people fast enough, would a smiley face be enough to make that totally acceptable of a thing to joke about?

del

09-08-2016, 07:21 PM

Really???? Do you know what that Smiley face was designed to represent????

Do you really think that there is a tribe today that would trade land for Whiskey???

This is what makes me want to push liberals down. They can't laugh anymore.

do you have any good child rape jokes?

how about wife beating? that's always good for a chuckle

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 07:22 PM

Really???? Do you know what that Smiley face was designed to represent????

Do you really think that there is a tribe today that would trade land for Whiskey???

This is what makes me want to push liberals down. They can't laugh anymore.

So, now, if you don't laugh at jokes about genocide, you're going to act violently towards people?

Big tough guy you are.

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 07:24 PM

No, you're just an idiot.

Now why did you feel the need to start the name calling? Too immature to handle disagreement?

Janitors should think twice before they toss insults.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:24 PM

Not everything is funny. You can make a joke but that doesn't mean everybody will laugh just because you did.

I know micro Aggressions. Make sure you report those boys that tell you that you look nice today, it is actually an insult :(

I think I hate everyone!

Chloe

09-08-2016, 07:26 PM

I know micro Aggressions. Make sure you report those boys that tell you that you look nice today, it is actually an insult :(

I think I hate everyone!

I have a good sense of humor I think. It's not a microaggression, it just wasn't funny to me. It is what it is.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:28 PM

So, now, if you don't laugh at jokes about genocide, you're going to act violently towards people?

Big tough guy you are.

How they hell did my joke about Whiskey have anything to do with Genocide????

If you want to talk about something that will cause people to loose respect? Lying about what they say is a sure way to do that!

I said nothing about the Genocide, and if you think that was one sided, you are mistaken, the Indians committed plenty of atrocities themselves. But Yes there Got a Raw Deal.

My Statement in NO way had anything to do with that. But the fact remains that the American Indians were very fond of the Whiteman's Whiskey and traded many things for it.

In the future please don't try and put words in my mouth.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:31 PM

So, now, if you don't laugh at jokes about genocide, you're going to act violently towards people?

Big tough guy you are.

REALLY? I think you need to put your big boy panties on today. You are calling people names, making up lies about them, and clearly have NO sense of humor.

This is a big boy forum, maybe you are being too sensitive today. You know me well enough to understand that I was not serious about the Whiskey, and certainly don't go around pushing people down.

Stop being a cry baby.

del

09-08-2016, 07:31 PM

How they hell did my joke about Whiskey have anything to do with Genocide????

If you want to talk about something that will cause people to loose respect? Lying about what they say is a sure way to do that!

I said nothing about the Genocide, and if you think that was one sided, you are mistaken, the Indians committed plenty of atrocities themselves. But Yes there Got a Raw Deal.

My Statement in NO way had anything to do with that. But the fact remains that the American Indians were very fond of the Whiteman's Whiskey and traded many things for it.

In the future please don't try and put words in my mouth.

no one put words in your mouth, short round.

you did it all by yourself

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 07:31 PM

How they hell did my joke about Whiskey have anything to do with Genocide????

If you want to talk about something that will cause people to loose respect? Lying about what they say is a sure way to do that!

I said nothing about the Genocide, and if you think that was one sided, you are mistaken, the Indians committed plenty of atrocities themselves. But Yes there Got a Raw Deal.

My Statement in NO way had anything to do with that. But the fact remains that the American Indians were very fond of the Whiteman's Whiskey and traded many things for it.

In the future please don't try and put words in my mouth.

And that whiskey was used to weaken the tribes so they would be easier to kill.

Don't get pissy with me because I called you out.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:32 PM

no one put words in your mouth, short round.

you did it all by yourself

OK Fuck Stain please show my quote where I said that I was OK with the Genocide of the American Indian?

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 07:33 PM

REALLY? I think you need to put your big boy panties on today. You are calling people names, making up lies about them, and clearly have NO sense of humor.

This is a big boy forum, maybe you are being too sensitive today. You know me well enough to understand that I was not serious about the Whiskey, and certainly don't go around pushing people down.

Stop being a cry baby.

I really don't care if you were serious or not. There are boundaries, lines you don't cross. That was one of them.

Get over yourself. You don't have any special privileges. If you say something that needs to be called out, I'm going to call you out. You can take it like a man or not, I don't care. I'll do what I think is right regardless of how you feel about it.

Also, I didn't call you any names, so chill out.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:34 PM

And that whiskey was used to weaken the tribes so they would be easier to kill.

Don't get pissy with me because I called you out.

I guess that you had better Cowboy up, (pun intended) or someone my joke about another subject that will make you all upset.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:36 PM

I really don't care if you were serious or not. There are boundaries, lines you don't cross. That was one of them.

Get over yourself. You don't have any special privileges. If you say something that needs to be called out, I'm going to call you out. You can take it like a man or not, I don't care. I'll do what I think is right regardless of how you feel about it.

Also, I didn't call you any names, so chill out.

Not me, but my post was not directed at your either.

If it offended anyone that was not my intention. But to me it is like the Redskin Issue. Most of the Indians don't care.

It is a shame that we can have jokes anymore. once upon a item we could all laugh together.

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 07:36 PM

I guess that you had better Cowboy up, (pun intended) or someone my joke about another subject that will make you all upset.

I find it really pretty funny that you're calling me a crybaby and telling me to cowboy up, when you're the one freaking out because I dared to say that your joke was neither funny nor appropriate.

Can't handle criticism anymore?

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 07:39 PM

Not me, but my post was not directed at your either.

If it offended anyone that was not my intention. But to me it is like the Redskin Issue. Most of the Indians don't care.

It is a shame that we can have jokes anymore. once upon a item we could all laugh together.

We can have jokes. We just have to also have lines we don't cross.

For example, I think this joke is funny (a little quirky Jewish humor):

A group of foreign dignitaries are visiting Israel. At the end of the tour, they are taken to see the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. They look at the tomb and read the following inscription: ABRAHAM SCHWARTZ BORN 5694 DIED 5733 A GOOD MAN AND A GREAT FURRIER

The visitors are incredulous. They ask the guide, "How can this be an unknown soldier if the grave has his name?" Their host responds, "Sure, as a soldier he was unknown, but as a furrier -- he was the best!"

Now, if I had made a joke about the name of a real dead soldier in Arlington, would that have been appropriate, or would that have crossed a line?

Mister D

09-08-2016, 07:39 PM

zelmo, when you tell a joke that offends people you have to learn how not to give a fuck and to make sure they know it. Seriously. Watching you grovel is a lot more offensive than your joke.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:41 PM

I find it really pretty funny that you're calling me a crybaby and telling me to cowboy up, when you're the one freaking out because I dared to say that your joke was neither funny nor appropriate.

Can't handle criticism anymore?

I don't like people telling me that I am supporting Genocide, but you are not fond of the Jews,

See not that funny is it!

I am sorry of my joke offended you. But I have no intentions of being more sensitive in the future. I meant no harm.

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:43 PM

zelmo, when you tell a joke that offends people you have to learn how not to give a $#@! and to make sure they know it. Seriously. Watching you grovel is a lot more offensive than your joke.

Yes! you are correct. I guess I will go get some Whiskey and head up to the Mt Pleasant Reservation and see if I can buy me a casino?? :) What do you think!

Great Advice.

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 07:43 PM

I don't like people telling me that I am supporting Genocide, but you are not fond of the Jews,

See not that funny is it!

I am sorry of my joke offended you. But I have no intentions of being more sensitive in the future. I meant no harm.

It didn't offend me, I just felt it was inappropriate. Feel free to continue telling whatever "jokes" you want, just don't get pissy when I decide to say it's inappropriate.

Chloe

09-08-2016, 07:43 PM

16069

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:44 PM

It didn't offend me, I just felt it was inappropriate. Feel free to continue telling whatever "jokes" you want, just don't get pissy when I decide to say it's inappropriate.

I did, Mister D was correct. Should not have tried to explain

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 07:46 PM

Tensions Mount
OK, so what?

del

09-08-2016, 07:48 PM

Maybe we should see if jack Daniels will help us out :) "We need this pipeline, and we's got some nice Whiskey"

It worked once???? Who knows?

OK Fuck Stain please show my quote where I said that I was OK with the Genocide of the American Indian?

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:52 PM

whis·key
[ˈ(h)wiskē]

NOUN

a spirit distilled from malted grain, especially barley or rye.

a code word representing the letter W, used in radio communication.

Can't find a Darn Definition where Whisky means Genocide?

maybe you liberals can help.

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 07:52 PM

whis·key
[ˈ(h)wiskē]

NOUN

a spirit distilled from malted grain, especially barley or rye.
a code word representing the letter W, used in radio communication.

Can't find a Darn Definition where Whisky means Genocide?

maybe you liberals can help.

Nobody said whiskey meant genocide.

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 07:55 PM

Watch out, when you post a comment Green Arrow can't deal with, he'll hurl a mindless insult.

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 07:56 PM

16069

No, you don't have this sense of humor as you claimed

zelmo1234

09-08-2016, 07:59 PM

Nobody said whiskey meant genocide.

You did, you accuse me of condoning genocide because of that statement and then defended it by saying that the got the Indians drunk before they killed them.

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 08:12 PM

You did, you accuse me of condoning genocide because of that statement and then defended it by saying that the got the Indians drunk before they killed them.

Yes, the whiskey was a precursor to the genocide. Didn't say they were the same.

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 08:13 PM

Watch out, when you post a comment @Green Arrow (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=868) can't deal with, he'll hurl a mindless insult.

You're cute when you act like a yipping dog.

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 08:15 PM

You're not, but then I can't expect much from a twenty something janitor.

Chloe

09-08-2016, 08:21 PM

You're not, but then I can't expect much from a twenty something janitor.

There's nothing wrong with being a janitor. It's honest work and necessary work. Don't be condescending.

Tahuyaman

09-08-2016, 09:06 PM

There's nothing wrong with being a janitor. It's honest work and necessary work. Don't be condescending.

Yep, it's honest. It doesn't take any skill, which should motivate someone to be a pompous jerk, but it's honest.

Cletus

09-08-2016, 10:30 PM

Wanna make sure you understand that i'm defending Jill .. not clowns who deface (or topple) awesome rocks.

What a dirt dumb thing to put a warrant out for her arrest!

Criminal damage to property. Assuming the damage was less that $1000.00, it will be a misdemeanor and she'll get off with a fine, some community service and maybe a year of probation.

Why are you defending her criminal action?

Cletus

09-08-2016, 10:32 PM

Most tribes would take this option in a heart-beat, assuming that the land was contiguous and that they had sovereign authority over it.

Probably not.

Cletus

09-08-2016, 10:36 PM

Isn't it 2016 and time for them to assimilate into the mainstream American culture?

If they want to be a separate nation, let them live without subsistence from the taxpayers.

It is not quite that simple. I suppose I could spend about 20 pages trying to bring people on the forum up to speed on this issue, but it would probably be a futile measure. The reservation system should be abolished. Of that there is no doubt. The biggest question though is HOW.

There is no good answer for that.

Green Arrow

09-08-2016, 10:43 PM

Criminal damage to property. Assuming the damage was less that $1000.00, it will be a misdemeanor and she'll get off with a fine, some community service and maybe a year of probation.

Why are you defending her criminal action?

Because it caused no tangible harm to anyone and far more violent actions have been done in our history to secure protection. The founders come to mind.

Cletus

09-08-2016, 10:45 PM

Yes, the whiskey was a precursor to the genocide. Didn't say they were the same.

Not really. The Whiskey was a trade item. Whiskey for furs. Whiskey for scalps. Whiskey for whatever.

Cletus

09-08-2016, 10:47 PM

Because it caused no tangible harm to anyone and far more violent actions have been done in our history to secure protection. The founders come to mind.

Are you equating her childish act of vandalism with the American Revolution?

Really?

zelmo1234

09-09-2016, 05:51 AM

You're not, but then I can't expect much from a twenty something janitor.

What the hell is wrong with being a Janitor?

I can't think of any reason to disparage any person's Work. That was pretty low.

zelmo1234

09-09-2016, 05:53 AM

Yep, it's honest. It doesn't take any skill, which should motivate someone to be a pompous jerk, but it's honest.

Actually, I think that pompous jerks can come from any walks of life, Green and I have always had disagreements, it never has nor do I feel it ever will change the fact that he is a good person.

Trying to belittle someone over a profession is just wrong.

zelmo1234

09-09-2016, 05:57 AM

If in fact Mrs. Stein did this, I am quite sure she understood the possible consequences of her actions.

I suspect that she would not want to be treated any differently than anyone else.

Civil disobedience often comes with a fine. And a slap on the wrist, which it should, Just because you believe that you have a good cause, does not give one an excuse to break the law.

FindersKeepers

09-09-2016, 06:14 AM

AeonPax

09-09-2016, 06:28 AM

`
`
Jill Stein did something she believed in and I fully support her. Aside from the fact that I am against oil pipelines for any reason whatsoever, Civil Disobedience to me is the highest form a patriotism. The only people profiting from this are the oil cartels.

donttread

09-09-2016, 06:58 AM

What the hell is wrong with being a Janitor?

I can't think of any reason to disparage any person's Work. That was pretty low.

Before I entered my profession in my late 20's after going back to college I had many jobs from hardware store clerk to construction laborer to "stock man/ bathroom cleaner " at K-mart to "cleaner at a textile mill to Pizza Hut manager trainee , to plastic factory worker, and worked in wholesale as well.
I did not like a few of those jobs but I did them and they paid the bills . I learned never to disrespect what a person did to make an honest living. In fact I think a couple years of labor jobs could benfit those Wall Street kids immensely.

Bo-4

09-09-2016, 07:14 AM

Green Arrow

09-09-2016, 08:54 AM

What the hell is wrong with being a Janitor?

I can't think of any reason to disparage any person's Work. That was pretty low.

He's wrong anyway. I left that job more than a year ago.

Green Arrow

09-09-2016, 08:55 AM

Are you equating her childish act of vandalism with the American Revolution?

Really?

Nope. I very clearly made a contrast, not an equation.

Tahuyaman

09-09-2016, 09:07 AM

Actually, I think that pompous jerks can come from any walks of life, Green and I have always had disagreements, it never has nor do I feel it ever will change the fact that he is a good person.

Trying to belittle someone over a profession is just wrong.

janitorial work is not a profession.

Cletus

09-09-2016, 09:54 AM

Sorry, but there was no damage done to the dozer.

Spray painting it constitutes damage. It is just like spray painting graffiti on a building. It is a criminal act and should be punished. In fact, the sentences for such crimes tend to be far too light.

Chloe

09-09-2016, 10:20 AM

`
`
jill stein did something she believed in and i fully support her. Aside from the fact that i am against oil pipelines for any reason whatsoever, civil disobedience to me is the highest form a patriotism. The only people profiting from this are the oil cartels.

x1000

Chloe

09-09-2016, 10:25 AM

Trying to get this thread back on topic.

Because honestly, a bad joke is a bad joke. Let's move on.

I sometimes wonder if it's the tribes - or those who want to use them - that care more about the pipeline.

What was Stein really doing? Using the issue to get a little name recognition?

A high pressure pipeline crosses my acreage. Where my long (quarter-mile) driveway crosses the line, there are two pole markers on either side. The pipeline company (Canadian) has an easement of 75 feet on both sides of the line. That means I can't build anything in that easement. I'm also not supposed to dig anywhere close without first notifying the pipeline so they can send a rep out to make sure it's all kosher.

Obviously, the pipeline should not disturb sacred ground. But, it's not that difficult to jog the line -- that would be the best solution.

Buried pipelines, utility lines, phone lines, internet lines and sewer lines crisscross every state and community in this nation, bringing energy and amenities to all of us. Just like roads, they all cross someone's land.

There is no reason why a compromise cannot be worked out that's acceptable to all. Of course, that might mean someone like Stein will have to butt out and let tribe members make their own decisions.

this wasn't about name recognition for Stein. She's been advocating for people like this for years now and didn't bring a news crew with her to these events like other candidates would have. She's been an advocate for civil disobedience and defending those in need for quite some time now, and she actually walks the walk unlike other candidates.

As for the article and the tribe did you read the article??? The protestors numbered in the thousands and represent multiple tribes. They welcomed Stein and were even more vocal and engaged than Stein was. They don't want the pipelines and there shouldn't and wouldn't be any compromise since to them the land is sacred and they also don't want any part of a possible environmental disaster. This pipeline won't benefit them and they assume the environmental risk.

Chloe

09-09-2016, 10:26 AM

janitorial work is not a profession.

maybe you should just stop talking

Cletus

09-09-2016, 10:27 AM

The whole "sacred land" thing is nothing but a smokescreen. The land in this incident wasn't even theirs.

Chloe

09-09-2016, 10:27 AM

The whole "sacred land" thing is nothing but a smokescreen. The land in this incident wasn't even theirs.

That doesn't mean they don't feel a connection to it

Cletus

09-09-2016, 10:36 AM

That doesn't mean they don't feel a connection to it

It is all about politics and money. There are probably not a whole lot more than a hundred or so locations in the country, if that, that have any real religious significance to any of the Indian nations and that could really be considered "sacred". Anytime there is a land dispute, that land immediately becomes "sacred", even if the day before, it was an open latrine.

It is how the game is played.

Green Arrow

09-09-2016, 10:37 AM

The whole "sacred land" thing is nothing but a smokescreen. The land in this incident wasn't even theirs.

The federal government doesn't recognize it as theirs, but they do recognize it as a sacred site nonetheless.

Tahuyaman

09-09-2016, 10:38 AM

maybe you should just stop talking

maybe you should help by not commenting on things you don't want to hear?

Chloe

09-09-2016, 10:38 AM

It is all about politics and money. There are probably not a whole lot more than a hundred or so locations in the country, if that, that have any real religious significance to any of the Indian nations and that could really be considered "sacred". Anytime there is a land dispute, that land immediately becomes "sacred", even if the day before, it was an open latrine.

It is how the game is played.

Maybe we should just stop screwing them over and pretending we know what's best for them? They've dealt with a whole lot of lies and cruelty from us as a country. Let them have their land.

Chloe

09-09-2016, 10:40 AM

maybe you should help by not commenting on things you don't want to hear?

You're being a jerk just to be a jerk. Just because it's a profession that you don't want doesn't mean you have to denigrate it like some pompous, elitist prick. Don't take for granted what makes all of ours lives cleaner on a day to day basis.

Cletus

09-09-2016, 10:50 AM

Maybe we should just stop screwing them over and pretending we know what's best for them? They've dealt with a whole lot of lies and cruelty from us as a country. Let them have their land.

"Their" land?

The Sioux are not indigenous to the Dakotas. They arrived there about 1760 after the Chippewa kicked their asses in Minnesota. They spent the 30 years or so engaged in a war of conquest with the Arikara, finally defeating them in 1794.

They took the land by conquest.

Sound familiar?

Chloe

09-09-2016, 10:52 AM

"Their" land?

The Sioux are not indigenous to the Dakotas. They arrived there about 1760 after the Chippewa kicked their asses in Minnesota. They spent the 30 years or so engaged in a war of conquest with the Arikara, finally defeating them in 1794.

They took the land by conquest.

Sound familiar?

It wasn't just the Sioux protesting

Tahuyaman

09-09-2016, 10:58 AM

You're being a jerk just to be a jerk. Just because it's a profession that you don't want doesn't mean you have to denigrate it like some pompous, elitist $#@!. Don't take for granted what makes all of ours lives cleaner on a day to day basis.

And you are keeping it alive.

However, I want janitors. I just can't call it a profession. That type of job is a great representation of our current situation. If you want a low paying job in an unskilled position, we are on the right path.

AeonPax

09-09-2016, 11:40 AM

You're being a jerk just to be a jerk. Just because it's a profession that you don't want doesn't mean you have to denigrate it like some pompous, elitist prick. Don't take for granted what makes all of ours lives cleaner on a day to day basis.
`
Being a jerk is a profession. It has to be. Some people clearly excel in it.

Cletus

09-09-2016, 02:48 PM

It wasn't just the Sioux protesting

Solidarity.

It is a Sioux issue.

Captain Obvious

09-09-2016, 02:55 PM

Anyone try giving them some shells and beads?

Cletus

09-09-2016, 03:02 PM

Anyone try giving them some shells and beads?

Unless they have been as emasculated as most males of European descent, that might be a good way to go home without your scalp.

Give it a try.

MisterVeritis

09-09-2016, 05:02 PM

MisterVeritis

09-09-2016, 05:04 PM

Chloe

09-09-2016, 06:10 PM

It is not their land.

meh

Mister D

09-09-2016, 08:17 PM

Unless they have been as emasculated as most males of European descent, that might be a good way to go home without your scalp.

Give it a try.

Drunks can't fight. Have a good time Captain Obvious

Captain Obvious

09-09-2016, 09:05 PM

Drunks can't fight. Have a good time @Captain Obvious (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=3)

lol - I didn't get past the "they still scalp" comment.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 01:38 AM

I didn't say anything about "still scalping". However, if you were ever really stupid enough to try the "beads and shells" routing or whatever the bullshit was you spewed, it might not be a bad tradition to pick back up. Just make sure you take your girlfriend Ms D with you when you go. she can check their sobriety while you are screaming for your mommy.

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 01:57 AM

Cletus

09-10-2016, 02:06 AM

Damn, take a midol and chill the fuck out.

If I want your advice I will lift up your rock and let you know.

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 02:09 AM

I'll continue to offer it regardless, thanks.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 02:20 AM

And I will continue to give it the consideration it deserves.

Perhaps you think it is fine to perpetuate the stereotype of Amerindians as a bunch of drunks who can be bought for handful of beads, but I do not.

Obvious generally gets a pass because people see him as the class clown and not someone to be taken seriously, but even the class clown can let his mouth override his ass one time too many. When that happens, he needs to be told to shut the fuck up and go sit in the front of the mirror and make faces at himself.

D... well, his limitations are well known, but you can only use that excuse for so long before it is worn out.

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 02:31 AM

This also happens to be the internet. Nothing that happens here means a hill of beans.

AeonPax

09-10-2016, 04:21 AM

`
`
Temporary Reprieve -- Obama halts new pipeline that protesters see as Keystone sequel (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/obama-halts-pipeline-north-dakota-227978)
`

The Obama administration halted vital work on a huge oil pipeline in North Dakota on Friday, handing a victory to tribal and environmental activists who have staged a growing protest portraying the $3.7 billion project as the successor to the vanquished Keystone XL.

Just minutes after a federal judge denied the Standing Rock Sioux tribe's legal bid for an immediate stop to work on the Dakota Access pipeline, three federal agencies announced they would effectively pause work along the most hotly disputed section of the project. The move was yet another setback for fossil fuel interests in the twilight of Barack Obama’s presidency, less than a year after he handed climate activists a huge victory by rejecting Keystone.

`
The MSM was ignoring this issue but this act puts in front and center.

donttread

09-10-2016, 05:07 AM

meh

They probably want hush money to go away

donttread

09-10-2016, 05:23 AM

How many who oppose the pipeline ( and I'm not saying I'm crazy about it) , especially those of you who live in cities are willing to dramatically change your life to use less fossil fuels? For example I shovel snow we measure in feet by hand and never used a tiller in my gardens or food plots until just this year and walk to the store when I can. I use an electric motor on the water when I can as well and even my gas out board is only a 9.9 HP these days.
But if we want to wage less war , use less fracking and not build pipelines we all need to sacrifice until we can force the corrupt system to truly develop home based and local alternate energy.
What are you doing towards this end? There are city dwellers who can't even get out of their building in the morning without an electric elevator who then spend their whole day on so much paved earth and among so many huge buildingings that their city has it's own weather pattern and spend their nights under mega watt lighting everywhere they turn ,who then turn around and call themselves "environmntalist" .
If you want off fossil fuels , as do I you must first sacrifice and then vote for those who will allow single home solor and neighborhood wind to be properly developed with no $200.00 a month umbilical cord and no bribes to the politicians who champion the change over. Words are cheap, actions and votes make changes.

FindersKeepers

09-10-2016, 05:24 AM

I'll continue to offer it regardless, thanks.

By "offering" it (in this instance), you're effectively advocating labeling American Indians as regressive and not deserving of any respect.

Cletus has given us specifics of why the Sioux might not be relevant in the current case, and yet other posters here are making extremely condescending (racist) comments. There is a huge difference.

I learned years ago (the hard way) not to challenge Cletus on Native American topics. You, and the other detractors on this thread would be wise to take my advice and realize you're not going to "outwit" him on this topic.

Sadly, we're seeing some posters' racial tendencies peek out in this thread. Sadder yet, you're backing them up.

I think you might want to reread this thread. Cletus' tongue-in-cheek comment about scalping was in response to a racist post.

zelmo1234

09-10-2016, 06:59 AM

The Really funny part about all of this?

Unless Jill Stein Pulls out a victory?

All of these pipelines are going to be built and completed, no matter who wins that Presidency.

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 08:41 AM

By "offering" it (in this instance), you're effectively advocating labeling American Indians as regressive and not deserving of any respect.

Cletus has given us specifics of why the Sioux might not be relevant in the current case, and yet other posters here are making extremely condescending (racist) comments. There is a huge difference.

I learned years ago (the hard way) not to challenge Cletus on Native American topics. You, and the other detractors on this thread would be wise to take my advice and realize you're not going to "outwit" him on this topic.

Sadly, we're seeing some posters' racial tendencies peek out in this thread. Sadder yet, you're backing them up.

I think you might want to reread this thread. Cletus' tongue-in-cheek comment about scalping was in response to a racist post.

All I'm doing is suggesting he not take this place so seriously. He posts on a number of issues like he has a giant stick up his ass. He joked about scalping - Mr. D and CO joked about trading beads and getting drunk. If Cletus can make insensitive jokes about Native Americans, he has little credibility to bitch when someone else makes insensitive jokes about Natives too.

MisterVeritis

09-10-2016, 09:07 AM

FindersKeepers

09-10-2016, 09:27 AM

FindersKeepers

09-10-2016, 09:29 AM

This is a good example of federal tyranny. The Obama regime did not like the results of a fair trial. So they did what tyrants do, they "fixed" it. All Federal agencies have been corrupted by Obama and his henchmen.

It is federal tyranny. In Obama's case, I think he was hoping the judge would grant the injunction, but this corrupt Administration was ready to move immediately when he did not.

And -- Obama's move has nothing to do with rights for Native Americans and everything to do with sticking the knife a little deeper in the fossil fuel industry.

War is coming.

I surely hope not.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 09:39 AM

All I'm doing is suggesting he not take this place so seriously. He posts on a number of issues like he has a giant stick up his ass. He joked about scalping - Mr. D and CO joked about trading beads and getting drunk. If Cletus can make insensitive jokes about Native Americans, he has little credibility to bitch when someone else makes insensitive jokes about Natives too.

I wasn't joking.

What both Oblivious and Ms D said was feeding into racial stereotypes and it was malicious. There was no humor in it. It was not was not a "joke" you would tell standing in a group of Indians. That really should be standard people should apply when making an attempt at schoolyard humor. Would you say it to the face of the target of your "joke"? If not, you know it wasn't really an attempt at humor. It was said with malice. It is not like Indians in this country don't have enough problems as it is, many self inflicted, but many more inflicted upon them. They don't need to and should not silently take it when some loud mouthed ass insults them and tries to perpetuate false stereotypes.

As for scalping... Scalping is a time honored tradition among a number of the Indian nations. Not all practiced it. The Sioux did. It was also a common practice among Whites in certain parts of the country. Kit Carson took a lot of scalps. His brother in law was scalped and killed during the 1847 Pueblo Revolt. Scalping itself, is not fatal. Although it was normally done to a fallen enemy, that was not always the case. If it had not been prohibited by the laws of land warfare, I would have taken a number of scalps over the years. As an interesting side note, the scalp was normally taken with a knife, but that was not the most efficient way to go about it. I would share the best way to take a scalp with you, but I wouldn't want to upset you... you being such a sensitive type and all.

exploited

09-10-2016, 09:50 AM

You... You would have taken scalps?

Mister D

09-10-2016, 10:00 AM

Mister D

09-10-2016, 10:04 AM

As for scalping... Scalping is a time honored tradition among a number of the Indian nations.

I'm sorry but...:laugh: Yeah, that should certainly help us esteem them.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 10:09 AM

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 10:10 AM

Do you believe when a black person uses the n-word it is as bad as when a white person uses it?

I generally don't give a shit.

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 10:12 AM

I wasn't joking.

What both Oblivious and Ms D said was feeding into racial stereotypes and it was malicious. There was no humor in it. It was not was not a "joke" you would tell standing in a group of Indians. That really should be standard people should apply when making an attempt at schoolyard humor. Would you say it to the face of the target of your "joke"? If not, you know it wasn't really an attempt at humor. It was said with malice. It is not like Indians in this country don't have enough problems as it is, many self inflicted, but many more inflicted upon them. They don't need to and should not silently take it when some loud mouthed ass insults them and tries to perpetuate false stereotypes.

As for scalping... Scalping is a time honored tradition among a number of the Indian nations. Not all practiced it. The Sioux did. It was also a common practice among Whites in certain parts of the country. Kit Carson took a lot of scalps. His brother in law was scalped and killed during the 1847 Pueblo Revolt. Scalping itself, is not fatal. Although it was normally done to a fallen enemy, that was not always the case. If it had not been prohibited by the laws of land warfare, I would have taken a number of scalps over the years. As an interesting side note, the scalp was normally taken with a knife, but that was not the most efficient way to go about it. I would share the best way to take a scalp with you, but I wouldn't want to upset you... you being such a sensitive type and all.

Me? The sensitive type? You're practically wetting yourself over two stupid comments on an internet forum. Stop projecting.

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 10:19 AM

I learned years ago (the hard way) not to challenge Cletus on Native American topics. You, and the other detractors on this thread would be wise to take my advice and realize you're not going to "outwit" him on this topic.

By the way, @FindersKeepers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1881), I don't back down from a challenge. I don't care who the person is. My family is rather well-known for our stubbornness and willingness to go toe-to-toe with anyone.

Cletus neither scares nor threatens me.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 10:28 AM

So what have we learned? When you tell people the Indians will scalp them you are not feeding into racial stereotypes. When you tell people the Indians will likely pass out drunk at their feet you are feeding a racial stereotype. Gotcha. lol

Well, we have certainly learned you are not the brightest bulb in the chandelier if you can't tell the difference between the two.

Scalping was not a practice limited to Indians. The Brits took scalps. The French took scalps. Americans took scalps. Scalping has been known to have even been practiced by the ancient Greeks.

The American colonies often paid bounties for Indian scalps. The first known bounties on Indian scalps were offered by the Governor of New Netherlands in the 1600s. In 1703, the Massachusetts Bay Colony started offering bounties on Indian scalps. The Governor of Pennsylvania, in 1756 offered a bounty of "130 Pieces of Eight for the Scalp of Every Male Indian Enemy, above the Age of Twelve Years, and 50 Pieces of Eight for the Scalp of Every Indian Woman, produced as evidence of their being killed." By the mid 1700s, Massachusetts was offering 40 Pounds for a male Indian scalp and 20 Pounds for the scalp of a female or child under 12.

Assuming that scalping is an "Indian thing" just reveals how little you actually know and how easily you accept stereotypes.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 10:30 AM

FindersKeepers

09-10-2016, 10:32 AM

By the way, @FindersKeepers (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1881), I don't back down from a challenge. I don't care who the person is. My family is rather well-known for our stubbornness and willingness to go toe-to-toe with anyone.

Cletus neither scares nor threatens me.

No one asked you to be scared or threatened. I was just pointing out how you were taking part in the racial disparagement of Native Americans earlier in the thread.

My family (not that it matters) is not the stubborn type. My father always told me I was "too stubborn by far," so, while your might not have fallen far from your family's tree, mine rolled all the way down the hill and floated down the creek.

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 10:32 AM

I have no desire to scare or threaten anyone here. Educate? Maybe, although that seems to be largely an exercise in futility.

Well, certainly, you have to be right before you can educate.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 10:33 AM

Well, we have certainly learned you are not the brightest bulb in the chandelier if you can't tell the difference between the two.

Scalping was not a practice limited to Indians. The Brits took scalps. The French took scalps. Americans took scalps. Scalping has been known to have even been practiced by the ancient Greeks.

The American colonies often paid bounties for Indian scalps. The first known bounties on Indian scalps were offered by the Governor of New Netherlands in the 1600s. In 1703, the Massachusetts Bay Colony started offering bounties on Indian scalps. The Governor of Pennsylvania, in 1756 offered a bounty of "130 Pieces of Eight for the Scalp of Every Male Indian Enemy, above the Age of Twelve Years, and 50 Pieces of Eight for the Scalp of Every Indian Woman, produced as evidence of their being killed." By the mid 1700s, Massachusetts was offering 40 Pounds for a male Indian scalp and 20 Pounds for the scalp of a female or child under 12.

Assuming that scalping is an "Indian thing" just reveals how little you actually know and how easily you accept stereotypes.

Pssst...it was an indigenous practice unknown to Europeans prior to New World contact. IOW, it's an Indian thing. Was this the Native American prowess Finderskeepers was telling us about? lol

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 10:33 AM

No one asked you to be scared or threatened. I was just pointing out how you were taking part in the racial disparagement of Native Americans earlier in the thread.

I don't recall saying anything racially disparaging about Native Americans.

My family (not that it matters) is not the stubborn type. My father always told me I was "too stubborn by far," so, while your might not have fallen far from your family's tree, mine rolled all the way down the hill and floated down the creek.

Eh, it happens. My family was also a bunch of rowdy Scottish rebels in the 1600-1700s, outlaws and horse thieves in the 1800s, and mobsters in the 1900s. We are none of those things now (except maybe rebellious), we've just maintained the stubborn pride.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 10:35 AM

Seriously, if telling someone the Indians will scalp him isn't feeding a racial stereotype nothing is. :laugh:

Cletus

09-10-2016, 10:39 AM

Well, certainly, you have to be right before you can educate.

I always am.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 10:40 AM

Pssst...it was an indigenous practice unknown to Europeans prior to New World contact. IOW, it's an Indian thing.

Wrong answer, but not unexpected.

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 11:37 AM

I always am.

That statement completely invalidates itself.

exploited

09-10-2016, 11:42 AM

To be fair to Cletus, scalping was practiced by the Scythians.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 11:49 AM

That statement completely invalidates itself.

Any time I am factually incorrect, feel free to correct me. Just don't hold your breath waiting for the ooportunity.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 12:36 PM

To be fair to Cletus, scalping was practiced by the Scythians.

That's as about as fair as one can be to Cletus. Let's say Herodotus was describing a very real practice and with perfect accuracy. We should be very careful with Herodotus but for the sake argument let's assume it is perfectly true in very detail. What do we have? A people of the Eurasian steppe practiced something very similar in ancient times. In the end, we still have a practice culturally alien and unknown to the European peoples who colonized the New World. More importantly, we have a practice associated today entirely with Native Americans.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 12:37 PM

Any time I am factually incorrect, feel free to correct me. Just don't hold your breath waiting for the ooportunity.

No problem. I've done so once this morning. :smiley:

exploited

09-10-2016, 12:53 PM

That's as about as fair as one can be to Cletus. Let's say Herodotus was describing a very real practice and with perfect accuracy. We should be very careful with Herodotus but for the sake argument let's assume it is perfectly true in very detail. What do we have? A people of the Eurasian steppe practiced something very similar in ancient times. In the end, we still have a practice culturally alien and unknown to the European peoples who colonized the New World. More importantly, we have a practice associated today entirely with Native Americans.

I would agree that scalping is more or less exclusively a Native practice, and that is was not practiced by Europeans, or even known about, as a general rule - prior to coming here. However, I would argue that mutilating the bodies of your enemies has been practiced by every culture, throughout history, including our own. Sometimes it is looked down upon, other times it is encouraged or tolerated. But it still happens to this day.

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 12:54 PM

Any time I am factually incorrect, feel free to correct me. Just don't hold your breath waiting for the ooportunity.

I just did.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 02:14 PM

No problem. I've done so once this morning. :smiley:

Not even close. Your contention that scalping is something associated almost exclusively with Indians is demonstrably false. The practice was widespread among English and French settlers and it was the Europeans who invented the practice of offering bounties for scalps. No one can say for sure, but it is very possible that more Indians have been scalped by Whites than Whites by Indians.

Hell, as of 2015, and probably today, Nova Scotia has a law on the books to provide for bounties paid to anyone who brings in a Mi’kmaq scalp. The law was put into effect in 1756 with the intent to "to annoy, distress, take and destroy the Indians". It has never been repealed.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 02:15 PM

I just did.

You are delusional if you believe that.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 02:17 PM

I would agree that scalping is more or less exclusively a Native practice, and that is was not practiced by Europeans, or even known about, as a general rule. However, I would argue that mutilating the bodies of your enemies has been practiced by every culture, throughout history, including our own. Sometimes it is looked down upon, other times it is encouraged or tolerated. But it still happens to this day.

Most certainly. Mutilating the dead happens quite a bit and continues to happen. I only disagree in terms of motive. Scalping appears to have been a highly ritualistic act that was pregnant with meaning. Mutilation, OTOH, is generally an act of rage and malice. It's an excess that wasn't and isn't considered customary.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 02:20 PM

Not even close. Your contention that scalping is something associated almost exclusively with Indians is demonstrably false. The practice was widespread among English and French settlers and it was the Europeans who invented the practice of offering bounties for scalps. No one can say for sure, but it is very possible that more Indians have been scalped by Whites than Whites by Indians.

Hell, as of 2015, and probably today, Nova Scotia has a law on the books to provide for bounties paid to anyone who brings in a Mi’kmaq scalp. The law was put into effect in 1756 with the intent to "to annoy, distress, take and destroy the Indians". It has never been repealed.

:facepalm:

The English and the French did not scalp one another, Cletus. Nor were there any scalps taken at Yorktown, the Alamo or Gettysburg. Do you know why, Cletus? Because it's an Indian thing.

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 02:23 PM

You are delusional if you believe that.

No, not really. It's frankly impossible to be right about everything, and you claimed you were never wrong. Ergo, by saying you are never wrong, you are wrong.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 02:27 PM

No, not really. It's frankly impossible to be right about everything, and you claimed you were never wrong. Ergo, by saying you are never wrong, you are wrong.

You should not assume everyone shares your shortcomings.

Green Arrow

09-10-2016, 02:32 PM

You should not assume everyone shares your shortcomings.

What process did you go through to obtain all the knowledge known to man?

Cletus

09-10-2016, 02:43 PM

:facepalm:

The English and the French did not scalp one another, Cletus. Nor were there any scalps taken at Yorktown, the Alamo or Gettysburg. Do you know why, Cletus? Because it's an Indian thing.

An Indian thing... The Scythians have already been mentioned. the Persians were known to scalp their enemies. The Romans took the scalps of the enemy fallen at the Battle of Raudine Plain. The Vandals scalped. Scalping was codified in the Sachsenspiegel, one of the oldest legal codes on medieval Germany. Scalping is known to have been practiced in Siberia and India. The Visigoths took Anglo-Saxon scalps in the 9th century. The Naga from the Indian state of Assam were well known as scalpers. In 1845 in Dahomey, the Apadomey regiment marched in parade with 700 scalps on display from their latest excursion. Scalping was common in Surinam, with the scalps being used for ceremonial purposes. Whites even took White scalps during the Kansas - Nebraska War in the 1850s.

In 1688 The French started paying for British scalps. In 1693, the British started paying for French scalps. It wasn't just Indians who were collecting those bounties.

The simple fact of the matter is that you are wrong. Scalping is not an "Indian thing".

Cletus

09-10-2016, 02:44 PM

What process did you go through to obtain all the knowledge known to man?

I never claimed to have such knowledge. I am not afraid to admit it when I do not know something. That is not the same as being wrong.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 03:26 PM

An Indian thing... The Scythians have already been mentioned. the Persians were known to scalp their enemies. The Romans took the scalps of the enemy fallen at the Battle of Raudine Plain. The Vandals scalped. Scalping was codified in the Sachsenspiegel, one of the oldest legal codes on medieval Germany. Scalping is known to have been practiced in Siberia and India. The Visigoths took Anglo-Saxon scalps in the 9th century. The Naga from the Indian state of Assam were well known as scalpers. In 1845 in Dahomey, the Apadomey regiment marched in parade with 700 scalps on display from their latest excursion. Scalping was common in Surinam, with the scalps being used for ceremonial purposes. Whites even took White scalps during the Kansas - Nebraska War in the 1850s.

In 1688 The French started paying for British scalps. In 1693, the British started paying for French scalps. It wasn't just Indians who were collecting those bounties.

The simple fact of the matter is that you are wrong. Scalping is not an "Indian thing".

Yes, an Indian thing. Do you really expect me to believe that when you say "scalping" people think "oh, yeah, the Scythians!". :laugh: I'm going to give you some credit here, Cletus, and assume that not even you believe that.

Now I know why you never cited a source for this "information".

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/scalping.aspx

(http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/scalping.aspx)

Herodotus (http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Herodotus.aspx) found the practice among the Pontic Scythians, and, according to the Maccabees (http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Maccabees.aspx), the ancient Persians tore away the scalp of one of their prisoners.

We have only the claim of Herodotus to support any such contention about the Scythians and, as we have discussed, it's irrelevant. This claim about the Persians peeling off the scalp of some guy in the 2nd Century B.C. was included for...what reason?

Orosius reports that Romans scalped during the battle on the Raudine plain.

Orosius was born almost 500 years after the battle in question. He was also a Christian. If there was anything like a Roman practice of scalping surely we would not have to rely on one isolated comment 500 years after the (supposed) fact. Good God...

The Vandals used this form of scalping (decalvatio) as a method of torture;

There is no agreement on what decalvatio actually entailedand some scholars do not think it resembled scalping.The head was shaved to shame the victim.

http://210.101.116.28/W_files/kiss61/1i400346_pv.pdf (http://210.101.116.28/W_files/kiss61/1i400346_pv.pdf)

...several provisions of the Sachsenspiegel, the oldest and most influential legal code of medieval Germany (http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Germany.aspx), are tantamount to the same thing. The shaved, bald heads of prisoners in Nazi (http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Nazi.aspx) concentration camps, as well as those of bochesses (German-lovers) after the defeat of the Wehrmacht in the zones occupied by Germany during World War II (http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/World_War_II.aspx), are horrible reminders of that dreadful tradition.

Here we have your article equating the shaving of the head with scalping. Dismissed.

As for what someone was doing in Dahomey in 1845 have at it. I don't feel like looking it up. The point of course is not just that your evidence is weak but that you've never heard about any of this until now! :laugh: That's because when you say scalping people think of Injuns. Kind off like how you associated scalping with Native Americans here on this thread. You were the first to do so! People don't think about Scythians, Persians, Romans, people getting their heads shaved in ancient Europe or some tribe in Dahomey (which they've never heard of and couldn't find on a map) when someone talks about scalping. The practice is associated exclusively with Native Americans.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 04:02 PM

Yes, an Indian thing. Do you really expect me to believe that when you say "scalping" people think "oh, yeah, the Scythians!". :laugh: I'm going to give you some credit here, Cletus, and assume that not even you believe that.

What YOU think is of no importance. If your racial biases make you want to believe it is an "Indian thing", go ahead. The fact remains that scalping was practiced in many different cultures in many parts of the world. You can close your eyes, plug your ears and stomp your feet all you want and it won't change that.

Now I know why you never cited a source for this "information".

That is A source. It is by no means the only source. It is also not the most authoritative source. It does however, provide a number of examples in a single spot.

Orosius was born almost 500 years after the battle in question. He was also a Christian. If there was anything like a Roman practice of scalping surely we would not have to rely on one isolated comment 500 years after the (supposed) fact. Good God...

What makes you so certain there is only one isolated source? Have you bothered to look?

Of course you haven't.

There is no agreement on what decalvatio actually entailedand some scholars do not think it resembled scalping.The head was shaved to shame the victim.

SOME scholars. Well, I guess that just completely settles the issue and refutes the opinions of many others. I am fairly sure that if you bother to actually look into it, you will find many references to "taking the skin". That is a littloe more than a haircut.

As for what someone was doing in Dahomey in 1845 have at it. I don't feel like looking it up. The point of course is not just that your evidence is weak but that you've never heard about any of this until now! :laugh: That's because when you say scalping people think of Injuns. Kind off like how you associated scalping with Native Americans here on this thread. You were the first to do so! People don't think about Scythians, Persians, Romans, people getting their heads shaved in ancient Europe or some tribe in Dahomey (which they've never heard of and couldn't find on a map) when someone talks about scalping. The practice is associated exclusively with Native Americans.

The practice is associated only with American Indians by ignorant, bigoted people who are either too lazy , unable or unwilling to find out the truth. It was widespread practice, exercised in many cultures in many parts of the world. For some, it had ritual significance. For many, it was a matter of expediency and convenience. It was a lot easier to carry a scalp than it was a whole head, particularly when there were a bunch of them to collect.

You really should try to set your prejudices aside and seeing the world as it is instead of the way you imagine or just want it to be. You are missing a lot.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 04:14 PM

You tell me it's my bias and that only ignorant, bigoted people make that strong association yet here you are...

Unless they have been as emasculated as most males of European descent, that might be a good way to go home without your scalp.

Give it a try.

:smiley_ROFLMAO:

Cletus, that is your only "source" and it's a joke as I've demonstrated. Moreover, you've never heard of any of these obscure "scalping" tales until now. That is also quite clear.

There is a reason you joked about scalping in this context and there is a reason you expected everyone to get it. The reason is that we all associate scalping with Native Americans and only with Native Americans. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 04:48 PM

You tell me it's my bias and that only ignorant, bigoted people make that strong association yet here you are...

:smiley_ROFLMAO:

Cletus, that is your only "source" and it's a joke as I've demonstrated. Moreover, you've never heard of any of these obscure "scalping" tales until now. That is also quite clear.

Wrong on both counts.

There is a reason you joked about scalping in this context and there is a reason you expected everyone to get it. The reason is that we all associate scalping with Native Americans and only with Native Americans. Stop embarrassing yourself.

No. The reason I mentioned it is because that was the first thing that occurred to me that I would be tempted to do if you tried that bullshit with me.

You see things from a very restricted and limited perspective. One set by your own prejudices and ignorance. If you are happy living like that, go right ahead, but when you try to pass off your preconceptions and misconceptions as fact, you need to be called on it. I have no problem doing that.

There are many studies that have been done on the origin and practice of scalping. You should look at them if you are truly interested in the subject. You won't. You have no real interest in the subject. You have no real interest in anything that challenges your preconceptions. You want to associate scalping with Indians because that fits your preconceived notions of them as a bunch of savages. It fits your myth of White superiority. The reality is that on this continent, scalping existed before the appearance of Europeans, but it was the Europeans who used it as a tool and made it much more widespread than it ever would have been without their presence. It was also widely practiced by settlers of European descent and not just by Indians. You can't bring yourself to acknowledge that. You can't bring yourself to accept that Whites scalped Whites and Whites paid bounties for White scalps. You refuse to acknowledge that scalping was practiced by a wide variety of cultures for a wide variety of reasons.

That is unfortunate for you.

exploited

09-10-2016, 04:51 PM

If you are going to claim studies support your position, it is only fair to provide a link, or at least a title.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 04:53 PM

If you are going to claim studies support your position, it is only fair to provide a link, or at least a title.

Are you incapable of using a search engine?

It is really not hard. I am reasonably certain you know how to do it.

exploited

09-10-2016, 04:55 PM

Are you incapable of using a search engine?

It is really not hard.

I'm perfectly capable. I'm also not the one making the claim. Is it your contention that I am responsible for proving your point for you?

Mister D

09-10-2016, 04:57 PM

Wrong on both counts.

No. The reason I mentioned it is because that was the first thing that occurred to me that I would be tempted to do if you tried that bull$#@! with me.

You see things from a very restricted and limited perspective. One set by your own prejudices and ignorance. If you are happy living like that, go right ahead, but when you try to pass off your preconceptions and misconceptions as fact, you need to be called on it. I have no problem doing that.

There are many studies that have been done on the origin and practice of scalping. You should look at them if you are truly interested in the subject. You won't. You have no real interest in the subject. You have no real interest in anything that challenges your preconceptions. You want to associate scalping with Indians because that fits your preconceived notions of them as a bunch of savages. It fits your myth of White superiority. The reality is that on this continent, scalping existed before the appearance of Europeans, but it was the Europeans who used it as a tool and made it much more widespread than it ever would have been without their presence. It was also widely practiced by settlers of European descent and not just by Indians. You can't bring yourself to acknowledge that. You can't bring yourself to accept that Whites scalped Whites and Whites paid bounties for White scalps. You refuse to acknowledge that scalping was practiced by a wide variety of cultures for a wide variety of reasons.

That is unfortunate for you.

lol Cletus, quit while you're behind. You would never have made a comment about scalping in any other context because it wouldn't have made a lick of sense to anyone including yourself. Is your Indian name Lies Through Teeth?

I already know about the origin of scalping in North America and the laughable attempt in the 1960s to blame it on Europeans. The archaeological and forensic evidence clearly shows that's simply not the case. It's a practice people (including you) associate with Native Americans and for a good reason: it was fairly common and well documented.

Now of course Cletus must resort to accusations of "White superiority". Yep, that's it, Cletus. It's racism. The irony in reducing you to a progressive caricature is a most delicious one. Thanks. :smiley:

Mister D

09-10-2016, 05:00 PM

If you are going to claim studies support your position, it is only fair to provide a link, or at least a title.

Out of curiosity I looked around a bit. There was one about "Scalping" in Roman Palestine but I'm not registering or paying to read it. It did look interesting though. OTOH, general trophy taking, particularly decapitated heads, seems to be conflated with scalping much of the time.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 05:03 PM

I'm perfectly capable. I'm also not the one making the claim. Is it your contention that I am responsible for proving your point for you?

Not at all. I am just saying I am not your mother. If you have an interest in the subject, you will research it. If you do not, you won't.

One of the reasons forums such as these are dying out is because people don't actually want to think anymore. They want to be spoon fed information. They don't want to do the work of finding things out for themselves.

This is the information age. A few keystrokes will give you access to more information than people just 50 years ago could amass in their lifetimes.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 05:05 PM

Not at all. I am just saying I am not your mother. If you have an interest in the subject, you will research it. If you do not, you won't.

One of the reasons forums such as these are dying out is because people don't actually want to think anymore. They want to be spoon fed information. They don't want to do the work of finding things out for themselves.

This is the information age. A few keystrokes will give you access to more information than people just 50 years ago could amass in their lifetimes.

That was pretty lame, Cletus. Who do you think you're kidding?

exploited

09-10-2016, 05:08 PM

Not at all. I am just saying I am not your mother. If you have an interest in the subject, you will research it. If you do not, you won't.

One of the reasons forums such as these are dying out is because people don't actually want to think anymore. They want to be spoon fed information. They don't want to do the work of finding things out for themselves.

This is the information age. A few keystrokes will give you access to more information than people just 50 years ago could amass in their lifetimes.

Right. But when I make a claim, and people dispute it, I usually provide reputable sources. This is just standard practice, and always has been, as far as I know.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 05:13 PM

lol Cletus, quit while you're behind. You would never have made a comment about scalping in any other context because it wouldn't have made a lick of sense to anyone including yourself. Is your Indian name Lies Through Teeth?

I already know about the origin of scalping in North America and the laughable attempt in the 1960s to blame it on Europeans. The archaeological and forensic evidence clearly shows that's simply not the case. It's a practice people (including you) associate with Native Americans and for a good reason: it was fairly common and well documented.

Now of course Cletus must resort to accusations of "White superiority". Yep, that's it, Cletus. It's racism. The irony in reducing you to a progressive caricature is a most delicious one. Thanks. :smiley:

Don't try to play the victim. Your history of racism on this forum is extensive and available to all to peruse.

The issue is not whether the idea that scalping is exclusively associated with Indians is in itself racist. I certainly don't see it as such. I see it as more of an educational issue. Most people never even think about it and have no real reason to think about it. Most however, would at least be willing to entertain the idea that it is not exclusively an "Indian thing" and would not dig your heels in as you have.

I think you are afraid to consider other possibilities.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 05:17 PM

Right. But when I make a claim, and people dispute it, I usually provide reputable sources. This is just standard practice, and always has been, as far as I know.

I tell them to look it up. That is my standard practice and always has been. I have never asked anyone for a link unless it was to a specific link of particular interest to me, and it is highly unlikely I ever will. If I feel a need to refute someone's claim, I am quite capable of looking up references on my own.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 05:21 PM

Don't try to play the victim. Your history of racism on this forum is extensive and available to all to peruse.

The issue is not whether the idea that scalping is exclusively associated with Indians is in itself racist. I certainly don't see it as such. I see it as more of an educational issue. Most people never even think about it and have no real reason to think about it. Most however, would at least be willing to entertain the idea that it is not exclusively an "Indian thing" and would not dig your heels in as you have.

I think you are afraid to consider other possibilities.

Cletus, I dismissed your accusation for what it is: a sign of desperation. I take it about as seriously as your argument here. :smiley:

We both know that scalping is in fact associated exclusively with Native Americans. You would not make a joke about scalping in any other context because it wouldn't make sense to you or anyone else. Why you can't admit that is anyone's guess. Stubborn old man? Who knows?

Mister D

09-10-2016, 05:24 PM

I tell them to look it up. That is my standard practice and always has been. I have never asked anyone for a link unless it was to a specific link of particular interest to me, and it is highly unlikely I ever will. If I feel a need to refute someone's claim, I am quite capable of looking up references on my own.

You made a claim and ran to encyclopedia.com to find support for it. Cletus, you're a textbook example of what not to do when one wishes to be taken seriously.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 05:43 PM

You made a claim and ran to encyclopedia.com to find support for it. Cletus, you're a textbook example of what not to do when one wishes to be taken seriously.

That particular article did a good job of consolidating information that is readily available in dozens of other places. I never use a single source. I have noted however, that you have provided exactly ZERO references to refute anything contained in that article.

If you were any good at this, you would have simply taken the information in that article and used it a s a jumping off place to find articles to either confirm or refute it. That is exactly what I did. That wasn't the first article I looked at nor was it the last. When it came time to post some information for you to think about, it was just the one that provided the best summary of the issue. I tried to keep it simple for you. I guess I didn't keep it simple enough.

Cletus

09-10-2016, 05:47 PM

Cletus, I dismissed your accusation for what it is: a sign of desperation. I take it about as seriously as your argument here. :smiley:

We both know that scalping is in fact associated exclusively with Native Americans. You would not make a joke about scalping in any other context because it wouldn't make sense to you or anyone else. Why you can't admit that is anyone's guess. Stubborn old man? Who knows?

It wouldn't make sense to you because of your own cultural and intellectual limitations.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 06:02 PM

It wouldn't make sense to you because of your own cultural and intellectual limitations.

That's great, Cletus.

Mister D

09-10-2016, 06:06 PM

That particular article did a good job of consolidating information that is readily available in dozens of other places. I never use a single source. I have noted however, that you have provided exactly ZERO references to refute anything contained in that article.

If you were any good at this, you would have simply taken the information in that article and used it a s a jumping off place to find articles to either confirm or refute it. That is exactly what I did. That wasn't the first article I looked at nor was it the last. When it came time to post some information for you to think about, it was just the one that provided the best summary of the issue. I tried to keep it simple for you. I guess I didn't keep it simple enough.

I've already refuted your article's claims and you have failed to respond. Proving those claims either false or irrelevant was a simple matter. For example, whether some obscure tribe in Siberia (oddly enough, that's where all the Injuns purportedly came from) took scalps is immaterial.