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Mister D
09-26-2011, 09:13 AM
http://frontpagemag.com/2011/09/26/palestinian-state-will-not-accept-palestinian-refugees/

In his op-ed to The New York Times on May 16, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas told the world in no uncertain terms that Palestinian statehood and UN recognition would not end the conflict:

Palestine’s admission to the United Nations would pave the way for the internationalization of the conflict as a legal matter, not only a political one. It would also pave the way for us to pursue claims against Israel at the United Nations, human rights treaty bodies and the International Court of Justice.

But no one seemed to notice that this admission contradicts the core argument for Palestinian statehood: The Palestinians are fighting for their state, so they have told the world, for their political self-determination, for their national self-realization; so the creation of a Palestinian state is the way to end the conflict.

Conley
09-26-2011, 10:13 AM
But in addition to telling the world that even after the so-called Palestinian people have their state they will continue the conflict, Ambassador Abdullah Abdullah went on to say that:

…Palestinian refugees would not become citizens of the sought for U.N.-recognized Palestinian state, an issue that has been much discussed. “They are Palestinians, that’s their identity,” he says. “But … they are not automatically citizens.”

This would not only apply to refugees in countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan or the other 132 countries where Abdullah says Palestinians reside. Abdullah said that “even Palestinian refugees who are living in [refugee camps] inside the [Palestinian] state, they are still refugees. They will not be considered citizens.”



Jeez, nobody cares about those refugees at all. They are just used politically. It's sad...I feel badly for the segment of the population that doesn't support the violence against Israel.

Mister D
09-26-2011, 10:18 AM
But in addition to telling the world that even after the so-called Palestinian people have their state they will continue the conflict, Ambassador Abdullah Abdullah went on to say that:

…Palestinian refugees would not become citizens of the sought for U.N.-recognized Palestinian state, an issue that has been much discussed. “They are Palestinians, that’s their identity,” he says. “But … they are not automatically citizens.”

This would not only apply to refugees in countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan or the other 132 countries where Abdullah says Palestinians reside. Abdullah said that “even Palestinian refugees who are living in [refugee camps] inside the [Palestinian] state, they are still refugees. They will not be considered citizens.”



Jeez, nobody cares about those refugees at all. They are just used politically. It's sad...I feel badly for the segment of the population that doesn't support the violence against Israel.


Assuming this is all accurate, it is pretty outrageous that someone can get away with this kind of hypocrisy. Moreover, it's a clear admission that the current Palestinian leadership has no desire for peace whatsoever.

Conley
09-26-2011, 10:25 AM
But in addition to telling the world that even after the so-called Palestinian people have their state they will continue the conflict, Ambassador Abdullah Abdullah went on to say that:

…Palestinian refugees would not become citizens of the sought for U.N.-recognized Palestinian state, an issue that has been much discussed. “They are Palestinians, that’s their identity,” he says. “But … they are not automatically citizens.”

This would not only apply to refugees in countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan or the other 132 countries where Abdullah says Palestinians reside. Abdullah said that “even Palestinian refugees who are living in [refugee camps] inside the [Palestinian] state, they are still refugees. They will not be considered citizens.”



Jeez, nobody cares about those refugees at all. They are just used politically. It's sad...I feel badly for the segment of the population that doesn't support the violence against Israel.


Assuming this is all accurate, it is pretty outrageous that someone can get away with this kind of hypocrisy. Moreover, it's a clear admission that the current Palestinian leadership has no desire for peace whatsoever.


Well even if the UN recognizes them as an entity that is just the first step, right? I mean they still have no real nation, land and borders.

edit: never mind, he appears to be talking about after creation of full statehood. I'm still not sure what his justification is.

Conley
09-26-2011, 10:44 AM
What are the goals of the Palestinians? Why would they continue the conflict?

If the Palestinian leaders really think that there is any possibility of Israel no longer existing as a country they are deluding themselves.

Mister D
09-26-2011, 10:51 AM
What are the goals of the Palestinians? Why would they continue the conflict?

If the Palestinian leaders really think that there is any possibility of Israel no longer existing as a country they are deluding themselves.


That's what it sounds like and I certainly can't blame Israelis for suspecting as much. I always understood the goal to be a Palestinian state although I suspected, as did many others, that the annihilation of Israel was the real goal. That appears to be confirmed.

Conley
09-26-2011, 10:57 AM
What are the goals of the Palestinians? Why would they continue the conflict?

If the Palestinian leaders really think that there is any possibility of Israel no longer existing as a country they are deluding themselves.


That's what it sounds like and I certainly can't blame Israelis for suspecting as much. I always understood the goal to be a Palestinian state although I suspected, as did many others, that the annihilation of Israel was the real goal. That appears to be confirmed.


Yeah you are probably right. Certainly other groups and nations have stated that is their goal as well. That's just so incredibly stupid. Sometimes I am accused of being too logical but I can't even begin to fathom that degree of idiocy.

Mister D
09-26-2011, 11:29 AM
What are the goals of the Palestinians? Why would they continue the conflict?

If the Palestinian leaders really think that there is any possibility of Israel no longer existing as a country they are deluding themselves.


That's what it sounds like and I certainly can't blame Israelis for suspecting as much. I always understood the goal to be a Palestinian state although I suspected, as did many others, that the annihilation of Israel was the real goal. That appears to be confirmed.


Yeah you are probably right. Certainly other groups and nations have stated that is their goal as well. That's just so incredibly stupid. Sometimes I am accused of being too logical but I can't even begin to fathom that degree of idiocy.


It's passion and I could understand it maybe 40-50 years ago but it's a done deal. There is only one way that Israel is going to disappear and no sane person could possibly support that. Why don't these people try to improve their existing conditions? It seems to me that lviign a better life isn't really the point They just want revenge for whatever reason.

Conley
09-26-2011, 11:47 AM
What are the goals of the Palestinians? Why would they continue the conflict?

If the Palestinian leaders really think that there is any possibility of Israel no longer existing as a country they are deluding themselves.


That's what it sounds like and I certainly can't blame Israelis for suspecting as much. I always understood the goal to be a Palestinian state although I suspected, as did many others, that the annihilation of Israel was the real goal. That appears to be confirmed.


Yeah you are probably right. Certainly other groups and nations have stated that is their goal as well. That's just so incredibly stupid. Sometimes I am accused of being too logical but I can't even begin to fathom that degree of idiocy.


It's passion and I could understand it maybe 40-50 years ago but it's a done deal. There is only one way that Israel is going to disappear and no sane person could possibly support that. Why don't these people try to improve their existing conditions? It seems to me that lviign a better life isn't really the point They just want revenge for whatever reason.


Sure 50 years ago maybe it was a possibility but by now we both agree it is futile. Even a nuke attack would not end the country, and many Palestinians would die in any attack.

Realistically the goals should be like you said - trying to get a better life for their people. Right now there is a lot of room for improvement.

Mister D
09-26-2011, 12:05 PM
What are the goals of the Palestinians? Why would they continue the conflict?

If the Palestinian leaders really think that there is any possibility of Israel no longer existing as a country they are deluding themselves.


That's what it sounds like and I certainly can't blame Israelis for suspecting as much. I always understood the goal to be a Palestinian state although I suspected, as did many others, that the annihilation of Israel was the real goal. That appears to be confirmed.


Yeah you are probably right. Certainly other groups and nations have stated that is their goal as well. That's just so incredibly stupid. Sometimes I am accused of being too logical but I can't even begin to fathom that degree of idiocy.


It's passion and I could understand it maybe 40-50 years ago but it's a done deal. There is only one way that Israel is going to disappear and no sane person could possibly support that. Why don't these people try to improve their existing conditions? It seems to me that lviign a better life isn't really the point They just want revenge for whatever reason.


Sure 50 years ago maybe it was a possibility but by now we both agree it is futile. Even a nuke attack would not end the country, and many Palestinians would die in any attack.

Realistically the goals should be like you said - trying to get a better life for their people. Right now there is a lot of room for improvement.


Of course the Arab elite has no interest in resolving this issue. It's a useful distraction from their own inadequacies and misrule.

Conley
09-26-2011, 12:12 PM
What are the goals of the Palestinians? Why would they continue the conflict?

If the Palestinian leaders really think that there is any possibility of Israel no longer existing as a country they are deluding themselves.


That's what it sounds like and I certainly can't blame Israelis for suspecting as much. I always understood the goal to be a Palestinian state although I suspected, as did many others, that the annihilation of Israel was the real goal. That appears to be confirmed.


Yeah you are probably right. Certainly other groups and nations have stated that is their goal as well. That's just so incredibly stupid. Sometimes I am accused of being too logical but I can't even begin to fathom that degree of idiocy.


It's passion and I could understand it maybe 40-50 years ago but it's a done deal. There is only one way that Israel is going to disappear and no sane person could possibly support that. Why don't these people try to improve their existing conditions? It seems to me that lviign a better life isn't really the point They just want revenge for whatever reason.


Sure 50 years ago maybe it was a possibility but by now we both agree it is futile. Even a nuke attack would not end the country, and many Palestinians would die in any attack.

Realistically the goals should be like you said - trying to get a better life for their people. Right now there is a lot of room for improvement.


Of course the Arab elite has no interest in resolving this issue. It's a useful distraction from their own inadequacies and misrule.


I understand why the Saudis for example do this. But if I were a Palestinian and these were my leaders it's not a distraction, it's all there is. Know what I mean? I would not put up with this kind of crap. I am sure there are those that recognize this but they are drowned out by the bloodthirsty mobs I guess.

Mister D
09-26-2011, 12:15 PM
What are the goals of the Palestinians? Why would they continue the conflict?

If the Palestinian leaders really think that there is any possibility of Israel no longer existing as a country they are deluding themselves.


That's what it sounds like and I certainly can't blame Israelis for suspecting as much. I always understood the goal to be a Palestinian state although I suspected, as did many others, that the annihilation of Israel was the real goal. That appears to be confirmed.


Yeah you are probably right. Certainly other groups and nations have stated that is their goal as well. That's just so incredibly stupid. Sometimes I am accused of being too logical but I can't even begin to fathom that degree of idiocy.


It's passion and I could understand it maybe 40-50 years ago but it's a done deal. There is only one way that Israel is going to disappear and no sane person could possibly support that. Why don't these people try to improve their existing conditions? It seems to me that lviign a better life isn't really the point They just want revenge for whatever reason.


Sure 50 years ago maybe it was a possibility but by now we both agree it is futile. Even a nuke attack would not end the country, and many Palestinians would die in any attack.

Realistically the goals should be like you said - trying to get a better life for their people. Right now there is a lot of room for improvement.


Of course the Arab elite has no interest in resolving this issue. It's a useful distraction from their own inadequacies and misrule.


I understand why the Saudis for example do this. But if I were a Palestinian and these were my leaders it's not a distraction, it's all there is. Know what I mean? I would not put up with this kind of crap. I am sure there are those that recognize this but they are drowned out by the bloodthirsty mobs I guess.


I'm referring to non-Palestinians. The Palestinians are the football.

Conley
09-26-2011, 12:17 PM
Right but why would the Palestinians choose such awful leaders? Of course they could say the same about us. :D :-\

Mister D
09-26-2011, 12:19 PM
Right but why would the Palestinians choose such awful leaders? Of course they could say the same about us. :D :-\


I think they have become so radicalized at this point they are like a rabid dog that needs to be put down. Sounds harsh but I think it's accurate.

Conley
09-26-2011, 12:21 PM
Right but why would the Palestinians choose such awful leaders? Of course they could say the same about us. :D :-\


I think they have become so radicalized at this point they are like a rabid dog that needs to be put down. Sounds harsh but I think it's accurate.


:D I'm sure some of them on a case-by-case basis but I am not going to say the entire population needs to be wiped. That's a lot of people.

Mister D
09-26-2011, 12:24 PM
Right but why would the Palestinians choose such awful leaders? Of course they could say the same about us. :D :-\


I think they have become so radicalized at this point they are like a rabid dog that needs to be put down. Sounds harsh but I think it's accurate.


:D I'm sure some of them on a case-by-case basis but I am not going to say the entire population needs to be wiped. That's a lot of people.


I don;t mean to go that far either. I guess what I mean is that it needs to explained to them that this is the way it is and if you don;t like it too bad. I think the sympathy they have received over the decades (much of it misplaced) has done nothing but help extend the cycles of violence.

Conley
09-26-2011, 12:33 PM
Right but why would the Palestinians choose such awful leaders? Of course they could say the same about us. :D :-\


I think they have become so radicalized at this point they are like a rabid dog that needs to be put down. Sounds harsh but I think it's accurate.


:D I'm sure some of them on a case-by-case basis but I am not going to say the entire population needs to be wiped. That's a lot of people.


I don;t mean to go that far either. I guess what I mean is that it needs to explained to them that this is the way it is and if you don;t like it too bad. I think the sympathy they have received over the decades (much of it misplaced) has done nothing but help extend the cycles of violence.


Yes, I'm out of patience with them. They've tried violence for decades and it hasn't solved a thing. It's time to try a different approach. I do at times feel like just letting the Middle East go destroy itself but as long as we need that sweet sweet oil we'll have to be intimately involved. :-[

Mister D
09-26-2011, 12:35 PM
Right but why would the Palestinians choose such awful leaders? Of course they could say the same about us. :D :-\


I think they have become so radicalized at this point they are like a rabid dog that needs to be put down. Sounds harsh but I think it's accurate.


:D I'm sure some of them on a case-by-case basis but I am not going to say the entire population needs to be wiped. That's a lot of people.


I don;t mean to go that far either. I guess what I mean is that it needs to explained to them that this is the way it is and if you don;t like it too bad. I think the sympathy they have received over the decades (much of it misplaced) has done nothing but help extend the cycles of violence.


Yes, I'm out of patience with them. They've tried violence for decades and it hasn't solved a thing. It's time to try a different approach. I do at times feel like just letting the Middle East go destroy itself but as long as we need that sweet sweet oil we'll have to be intimately involved. :-[


For the foreseeable future, yes.