The Many Flip-Flops of Donald Trump

[Green Arrow]

Unlike his 'Make America Great Again' hats, Donald Trump's flip-flops are made in America.

This list is not exhaustive. As with the last thread, this thread is about Trump. If you want to talk about Hillary, here is the Hillary thread (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/70421-The-Many-Lies-of-Hillary-Clinton). Off-topic posts will be considered a violation of Rule 1 and will result in threadbans. If you are uncertain of the rules, you can find them here (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/31827-The-Political-Forums-Rules-and-Regulations). We're all adults here, so I won't be reminding anyone of the rules. You break it, you're out.

Let the dissension commence!

1) 9/13/16: Trump campaign says it will pull out of debates if Johnson, Stein not included (http://www.smobserved.com/story/2016/09/04/news/donald-trump-will-not-debate-hillary-if-gary-johnson-not-allowed-to-participate/1894.html)...9/14/16: Trump says not only will he debate Hillary, but Johnson and Stein should never be included in the debates (http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/09/09/trump-asks-no-johnson-stein-in-debates.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl)

2) Donald Trump, almost in the same interview: "Biggest problem, to me, in the world, is nuclear, and proliferation." Then, he says Japan and South Korea should have nuclear weapons...which expands nuclear and is 100% proliferation. Then he says, "I don't want more nuclear weapons."

3) This one is a lie rather than a flip-flop: In Trump's campaign announcement speech, he claimed that he opposed the Iraq War from day one, and (rightly) predicted it would destabilize the Middle East. But in 2002, Trump said he was fully supportive of the Iraq War.

Source for 2 and 3: CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/31/politics/donald-trump-positions-flip-flops/)

4) Trump says we're going to deport all illegal immigrants with a "deportation force"...and then says there are good illegal immigrants that shouldn't be deported.

5) Trump called President Obama a founder of ISIS...and then labeled it "sarcasm" when he caught heat for it.

6) Trump tax plan for the rich: September the rate goes from 39.6% to 25%, then Trump claims his tax plan raises taxes on the rich.

Source for 4-6: ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trumps-softening-immigration-latest-flip-flop/story?id=39063811)

7) No Muslims in the US, either as friends or visitors...on second thought, friends and visitors are okay. Matter of fact, let's not even call that a policy, it's just a suggestion. No, no, scratch that, it should be policy. Uhhh...

8) Send troops to defeat ISIS, and take the oil fields. No, don't take the oil fields, bomb the hell out of the oil fields and don't even worry about sending troops in. Yeah, destroy the oil fields, but let the ground troops be sent by our allies in the region. No, no, we'll just send in our own troops. Ah, hell, who cares, I know more about this than our generals in the field anyway.

9) Don't raise the minimum wage, it would send our jobs to China. Hm...now that I've thought about it, let's just raise the minimum wage. No, I take that back, let's just do away with the federal minimum wage altogether and make it a state issue. But if I do that, I can't raise it, and I kinda want to raise it...fuck it, let's just make it $10 an hour.

10) No more gun-free zones! Well, maybe no guns in classrooms, that sounds reasonable. Or maybe guns in classrooms is a good idea. In fact, some gun-free zones might be a good idea.

Source for 7-10: NBC (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801)

That's it for now, each source gives multiple other examples so we can just talk about those.

[Dr. Who]

Unlike his 'Make America Great Again' hats, Donald Trump's flip-flops are made in America.

This list is not exhaustive. As with the last thread, this thread is about Trump. If you want to talk about Hillary, here is the Hillary thread (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/70421-The-Many-Lies-of-Hillary-Clinton). Off-topic posts will be considered a violation of Rule 1 and will result in threadbans. If you are uncertain of the rules, you can find them here (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/31827-The-Political-Forums-Rules-and-Regulations). We're all adults here, so I won't be reminding anyone of the rules. You break it, you're out.

Let the dissension commence!

1) 9/13/16: Trump campaign says it will pull out of debates if Johnson, Stein not included (http://www.smobserved.com/story/2016/09/04/news/donald-trump-will-not-debate-hillary-if-gary-johnson-not-allowed-to-participate/1894.html)...9/14/16: Trump says not only will he debate Hillary, but Johnson and Stein should never be included in the debates (http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/09/09/trump-asks-no-johnson-stein-in-debates.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl)

2) Donald Trump, almost in the same interview: "Biggest problem, to me, in the world, is nuclear, and proliferation." Then, he says Japan and South Korea should have nuclear weapons...which expands nuclear and is 100% proliferation. Then he says, "I don't want more nuclear weapons."

3) This one is a lie rather than a flip-flop: In Trump's campaign announcement speech, he claimed that he opposed the Iraq War from day one, and (rightly) predicted it would destabilize the Middle East. But in 2002, Trump said he was fully supportive of the Iraq War.

Source for 2 and 3: CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/31/politics/donald-trump-positions-flip-flops/)

4) Trump says we're going to deport all illegal immigrants with a "deportation force"...and then says there are good illegal immigrants that shouldn't be deported.

5) Trump called President Obama a founder of ISIS...and then labeled it "sarcasm" when he caught heat for it.

6) Trump tax plan for the rich: September the rate goes from 39.6% to 25%, then Trump claims his tax plan raises taxes on the rich.

Source for 4-6: ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trumps-softening-immigration-latest-flip-flop/story?id=39063811)

7) No Muslims in the US, either as friends or visitors...on second thought, friends and visitors are okay. Matter of fact, let's not even call that a policy, it's just a suggestion. No, no, scratch that, it should be policy. Uhhh...

8) Send troops to defeat ISIS, and take the oil fields. No, don't take the oil fields, bomb the hell out of the oil fields and don't even worry about sending troops in. Yeah, destroy the oil fields, but let the ground troops be sent by our allies in the region. No, no, we'll just send in our own troops. Ah, hell, who cares, I know more about this than our generals in the field anyway.

9) Don't raise the minimum wage, it would send our jobs to China. Hm...now that I've thought about it, let's just raise the minimum wage. No, I take that back, let's just do away with the federal minimum wage altogether and make it a state issue. But if I do that, I can't raise it, and I kinda want to raise it...fuck it, let's just make it $10 an hour.

10) No more gun-free zones! Well, maybe no guns in classrooms, that sounds reasonable. Or maybe guns in classrooms is a good idea. In fact, some gun-free zones might be a good idea.

Source for 7-10: NBC (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801)

That's it for now, each source gives multiple other examples so we can just talk about those.
People who are supporting him don't even care what he says, so long as he isn't Hillary Clinton and running on the Republican ticket. All he has to do is emote like he's convinced about everything he says in the moment and he could be quoting from Marx (or maybe Harpo Marx) and all people hear is the dog whistle. Not that Hillary is any better, but just more consistent in her prevarications.

[Captain Obvious]

People who are supporting him don't even care what he says, so long as he isn't Hillary Clinton and running on the Republican ticket. All he has to do is emote like he's convinced about everything he says in the moment and he could be quoting from Marx (or maybe Harpo Marx) and all people hear is the dog whistle. Not that Hillary is any better, but just more consistent in her prevarications.

http://www.npr.org/2016/09/21/494874964/the-big-reason-voters-like-trump-clinton-theyre-not-the-other


The Big Reason Voters Like Trump, Clinton? They're Not The Other

[Tahuyaman]

Trump's most glaring inconsistency is his foreign policy ideas. He claims to be a non interventionist, but calls for deploying troops to take control of the oil produced by certain nations.

[Tahuyaman]

People who are supporting him don't even care what he says, so long as he isn't Hillary Clinton and running on the Republican ticket....

That's not exclusive to the Trump supporters

[Common]

People who are supporting him don't even care what he says, so long as he isn't Hillary Clinton and running on the Republican ticket. All he has to do is emote like he's convinced about everything he says in the moment and he could be quoting from Marx (or maybe Harpo Marx) and all people hear is the dog whistle. Not that Hillary is any better, but just more consistent in her prevarications.

Thats true and that is because the alternative is hillary clinton who is far worse. Flip flopping and being unable to tell the truth about anything and decades of dirty politcal deals and sleeze is the choice. Ill take flip flopping.

[FindersKeepers]

People who are supporting him don't even care what he says, so long as he isn't Hillary Clinton and running on the Republican ticket. All he has to do is emote like he's convinced about everything he says in the moment and he could be quoting from Marx (or maybe Harpo Marx) and all people hear is the dog whistle. Not that Hillary is any better, but just more consistent in her prevarications.


You're partially correct.

I will vote for him because he isn't Hillary Clinton -- but NOT because I support his doofussness.

All his flip-flops and all his Trumpspeak aside, I feel he is the lesser evil.

I feel he presents a lesser chance of a major world war -- which (in my mind) takes precedence over all his goofy talk.

It'd be nice if we had better candidates this time around -- but we don't. We have to make do with the choices we're given. And, don't tell me how I can vote third-party. Casting a vote against Ms. Jingoist is the most important thing.

[Peter1469]

People who are supporting him don't even care what he says, so long as he isn't Hillary Clinton and running on the Republican ticket. All he has to do is emote like he's convinced about everything he says in the moment and he could be quoting from Marx (or maybe Harpo Marx) and all people hear is the dog whistle. Not that Hillary is any better, but just more consistent in her prevarications.

As said often over the last year, it is nationalism v. the march towards globalism. That is why both candidate have strong support despite their flaws. Neither one should be getting over 20% or there is a very low turnout.

[Peter1469]

Trump's most glaring inconsistency is his foreign policy ideas. He claims to be a non interventionist, but calls for deploying troops to take control of the oil produced by certain nations.

Most of his foreign policy speeches seem to be written by members of the realist school of international relations.

[Green Arrow]

You're partially correct.

I will vote for him because he isn't Hillary Clinton -- but NOT because I support his doofussness.

All his flip-flops and all his Trumpspeak aside, I feel he is the lesser evil.

I feel he presents a lesser chance of a major world war -- which (in my mind) takes precedence over all his goofy talk.

It'd be nice if we had better candidates this time around -- but we don't. We have to make do with the choices we're given. And, don't tell me how I can vote third-party. Casting a vote against Ms. Jingoist is the most important thing.

How do you know he actually is the lesser evil, and represents a lesser chance of sparking another new world war?

[Green Arrow]

Thats true and that is because the alternative is hillary clinton who is far worse. Flip flopping and being unable to tell the truth about anything and decades of dirty politcal deals and sleeze is the choice. Ill take flip flopping.

How do you know Hillary is far worse?

[FindersKeepers]

How do you know he actually is the lesser evil, and represents a lesser chance of sparking another new world war?

None of us KNOWS anything. We can only assume based on what we've heard about and from the candidates.

In this specific case, I've heard Trump say he'd prefer to remain more "isolationist" and not partake in a lot of nation-building.

I've heard Hillary say that the US could "obliterate" Iran if they step out of line concerning Israel. I've seen the results of the chaos created by her push to kill Gaddafi.

I heard her victory whoop after he fell.

That's a small sample of what I'm basing my decision on.

[texan]

Unlike his 'Make America Great Again' hats, Donald Trump's flip-flops are made in America.

This list is not exhaustive. As with the last thread, this thread is about Trump. If you want to talk about Hillary, here is the Hillary thread (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/70421-The-Many-Lies-of-Hillary-Clinton). Off-topic posts will be considered a violation of Rule 1 and will result in threadbans. If you are uncertain of the rules, you can find them here (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/31827-The-Political-Forums-Rules-and-Regulations). We're all adults here, so I won't be reminding anyone of the rules. You break it, you're out.

Let the dissension commence!

1) 9/13/16: Trump campaign says it will pull out of debates if Johnson, Stein not included (http://www.smobserved.com/story/2016/09/04/news/donald-trump-will-not-debate-hillary-if-gary-johnson-not-allowed-to-participate/1894.html)...9/14/16: Trump says not only will he debate Hillary, but Johnson and Stein should never be included in the debates (http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/09/09/trump-asks-no-johnson-stein-in-debates.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl)

2) Donald Trump, almost in the same interview: "Biggest problem, to me, in the world, is nuclear, and proliferation." Then, he says Japan and South Korea should have nuclear weapons...which expands nuclear and is 100% proliferation. Then he says, "I don't want more nuclear weapons."

3) This one is a lie rather than a flip-flop: In Trump's campaign announcement speech, he claimed that he opposed the Iraq War from day one, and (rightly) predicted it would destabilize the Middle East. But in 2002, Trump said he was fully supportive of the Iraq War.

Source for 2 and 3: CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/31/politics/donald-trump-positions-flip-flops/)

4) Trump says we're going to deport all illegal immigrants with a "deportation force"...and then says there are good illegal immigrants that shouldn't be deported.

5) Trump called President Obama a founder of ISIS...and then labeled it "sarcasm" when he caught heat for it.

6) Trump tax plan for the rich: September the rate goes from 39.6% to 25%, then Trump claims his tax plan raises taxes on the rich.

Source for 4-6: ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trumps-softening-immigration-latest-flip-flop/story?id=39063811)

7) No Muslims in the US, either as friends or visitors...on second thought, friends and visitors are okay. Matter of fact, let's not even call that a policy, it's just a suggestion. No, no, scratch that, it should be policy. Uhhh...

8) Send troops to defeat ISIS, and take the oil fields. No, don't take the oil fields, bomb the hell out of the oil fields and don't even worry about sending troops in. Yeah, destroy the oil fields, but let the ground troops be sent by our allies in the region. No, no, we'll just send in our own troops. Ah, hell, who cares, I know more about this than our generals in the field anyway.

9) Don't raise the minimum wage, it would send our jobs to China. Hm...now that I've thought about it, let's just raise the minimum wage. No, I take that back, let's just do away with the federal minimum wage altogether and make it a state issue. But if I do that, I can't raise it, and I kinda want to raise it...$#@! it, let's just make it $10 an hour.

10) No more gun-free zones! Well, maybe no guns in classrooms, that sounds reasonable. Or maybe guns in classrooms is a good idea. In fact, some gun-free zones might be a good idea.

Source for 7-10: NBC (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/full-list-donald-trump-s-rapidly-changing-policy-positions-n547801)

That's it for now, each source gives multiple other examples so we can just talk about those.

Can't we just change it to the many flip flops from everyone that runs for office? I hear you, but I just don't think this matters. Heck we don't even hold politicians accountable for campaign promises.

[Green Arrow]

None of us KNOWS anything. We can only assume based on what we've heard about and from the candidates.

In this specific case, I've heard Trump say he'd prefer to remain more "isolationist" and not partake in a lot of nation-building.

I've heard Hillary say that the US could "obliterate" Iran if they step out of line concerning Israel. I've seen the results of the chaos created by her push to kill Gaddafi.

I heard her victory whoop after he fell.

That's a small sample of what I'm basing my decision on.

I just provided several examples of Donald Trump saying one thing and then contradicting that same thing later, sometimes in the same speech. He's supported many of the most interventionist policies of the last sixteen years and then went on to act like he opposed them.

Nobody so far has disputed the OP. Even Common, one of Trump's biggest boosters, acknowledges Trump is a liar and a flip-flopper. How can you trust he will actually be a non-interventionist or isolationist president?

[Green Arrow]

Can't we just change it to the many flip flops from everyone that runs for office? I hear you, but I just don't think this matters. Heck we don't even hold politicians accountable for campaign promises.

Nope, we can't. Not giving a shit is why our country is swirling the bowl. Break the cycle.

[FindersKeepers]

I just provided several examples of Donald Trump saying one thing and then contradicting that same thing later, sometimes in the same speech. He's supported many of the most interventionist policies of the last sixteen years and then went on to act like he opposed them.

Nobody so far has disputed the OP. Even Common, one of Trump's biggest boosters, acknowledges Trump is a liar and a flip-flopper. How can you trust he will actually be a non-interventionist or isolationist president?


I can't trust that, 100%. No one can.

But, the evidence is clear that Hillary won't be.

[Green Arrow]

I can't trust that, 100%. No one can.

But, the evidence is clear that Hillary won't be.

Fair enough.

[Crepitus]

How do you know Hillary is far worse?
We don't. In fact, we can't. Trump is an oozing ball of inconsistencies and contradictory statements. We have NO IDEA what he will actually do if he gets in office.

Clinton OTOH we know. We have a good idea what she will do if she wins. We don't like it, but we know what the worst is likely to be, and we will almost certainly survive it.

[Tahuyaman]

Trump's most glaring inconsistency is his foreign policy ideas. He claims to be a non interventionist, but calls for deploying troops to take control of the oil produced by certain nations.

Most of his foreign policy speeches seem to be written by members of the realist school of international relations.

His foreign policy ideas are very inconsistent. He talks about being a non interventionist, but I can't find one instance where he says we should not intervene in the ME.

[Tahuyaman]

We don't. In fact, we can't. Trump is an oozing ball of inconsistencies and contradictory statements. We have NO IDEA what he will actually do if he gets in office.

Clinton OTOH we know. We have a good idea what she will do if she wins. We don't like it, but we know what the worst is likely to be, and we will almost certainly survive it.


I have to to agree with that.

I can't support Hillary Clinton precisely because of what I know about her and fear of what I know she will do. I can't support Trump because of what I have heard from him and fear of what he might do.