Trump Voters v. Clinton Voters

[Green Arrow]

I conducted an experiment this week that turned out rather interesting, with results that actually surprised me.

First, I posted a thread lampooning Hillary Clinton, The Many Lies of Hillary Clinton (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/70421-The-Many-Lies-of-Hillary-Clinton). Then, I posted a thread lampooning Trump on the same lines, The Many Flip-Flops of Donald Trump (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/70495-The-Many-Flip-Flops-of-Donald-Trump).

The responses from Clinton supporters in the Clinton thread were swift and immediate. First was Common Sense:


While I would never say Clinton is an ideal candidate, working against her is working for Trump.


Enjoy the Trump presidency.

Then maineman asked me this:


GA... what is the desired result of thread after thread about Hillary's supposed lack of integrity? What are you actually hoping to accomplish?
AZ Jim tried to "refute" my list of Clinton lies by posting an article from the same source as every one of the Clinton lies I posted, that compared the site's own measurements of Trump's lies versus Clinton's lies, and came to the conclusion that Trump had more dishonest statements, ergo Trump was more dishonest. Nevermind that this didn't actually address the fact that Clinton still has a lot of lies according to that same source...

Interestingly enough, the responses from Clinton supporters started out fairly polite, but got progressively nastier as the thread went on. The only person in the thread to actually attempt to refute any of the Clinton lies was, fascinatingly, hanger4, a conservative Trump voter.

Contrast this with the Trump thread (just one day younger than the Clinton thread).

Several Trump supporters chimed into the thread, but not to refute the lies and flip-flopping inconsistency of Trump. They actually ACKNOWLEDGED their candidate's flaws, and then explained why they were voting for him anyway. Probably my favorite Trump voter response in that thread was from FindersKeepers, who I am quickly growing a lot of respect for:


You're partially correct.


I will vote for him because he isn't Hillary Clinton -- but NOT because I support his doofussness.


All his flip-flops and all his Trumpspeak aside, I feel he is the lesser evil.


I feel he presents a lesser chance of a major world war -- which (in my mind) takes precedence over all his goofy talk.


It'd be nice if we had better candidates this time around -- but we don't. We have to make do with the choices we're given. And, don't tell me how I can vote third-party. Casting a vote against Ms. Jingoist is the most important thing.

The disparity in the responses to the two threads is particularly glaring considering the narratives about this presidential election. Democrats are using "love trumps hate" as a major campaign slogan and are criticizing Trump and his supporters for using fear and hatred as a political tool. We are constantly reminded that Trump is a bully that lashes out at people nastily at the first sign of disagreement or criticism. Hillary Clinton herself claimed half of Trump's supporters were "deplorables" and her supporters have capitalized on that.

And yet...here we are.

It's a fascinating study, really.

[del]

and again, claiming a vote for trump is somehow not a vote for trump is asinine.

[Tahuyaman]

There's not much difference between the Trump and Clinton supporters. Both seem to base most of their support on party affiliation.

When it comes to the issue of truthfulness, Hillary has a track record of running fast and loose with truth over a long period of time, even under oath.

Trump has been changing his positions and demonstrated a lot of inconsistencies as the campaign has gone on. Waffling and changing positions is not lying. It's showing that you have no core beliefs.

[Green Arrow]

and again, claiming a vote for trump is somehow not a vote for trump is asinine.

True. I think it's part of this attitude that is pretty widespread in America that we can basically do whatever we want, but can still be immune from taking responsibility for the impact of our choices.

[TrueBlue]

and again, claiming a vote for trump is somehow not a vote for trump is asinine.
Well, we don't often agree on things at all but this time I can agree with that. It's the same as saying that voting from Trump is voting against Hillary. They may think it is but they are not fooling anyone but themselves. Actually, it is simply what it is -- A Vote For Trump. Period.

[Green Arrow]

There's not much difference between the Trump and Clinton supporters. Both seem to base most of their support on party affiliation.

When it comes to the issue of truthfulness, Hillary has a track record of running fast and loose with truth over a long period of time, even under oath.

Trump has been changing his positions and demonstrated a lot of inconsistencies as the campaign has gone on. Waffling and changing positions is not lying. It's showing that you have no core beliefs.

If you say "I will do this," or "I believe this," and then later say you will do or believe something that contradicts what you originally said you would do or believe, you are lying.

[Mac-7]

There's not much difference between the Trump and Clinton supporters.

Both seem to base most of their support on party affiliation.

When it comes to the issue of truthfulness, Hillary has a track record of running fast and loose with truth over a long period of time, even under oath.

Trump has been changing his positions and demonstrated a lot of inconsistencies as the campaign has gone on. Waffling and changing positions is not lying. It's showing that you have no core beliefs.

What a dumb analysis.

trump supporters are 180 degrees removed from the beliefs of hillary voters.

The same as democrats strongly differ from the basic beliefs of republicans.

yes we will vote for the party nominee because our be
iefs are so different from liberal democrats who are voting for hillry

because they are the only two candidates with a chance to be elected president

[Green Arrow]

Well, we don't often agree on things at all but this time I can agree with that. It's the same as saying that voting from Trump is voting against Hillary. They may think it is but they are not fooling anyone but themselves. Actually, it is simply what it is -- A Vote For Trump. Period.

You were noticeably absent from the "Many Lies of Hillary Clinton" thread. Why's that?

[TrueBlue]

True. I think it's part of this attitude that is pretty widespread in America that we can basically do whatever we want, but can still be immune from taking responsibility for the impact of our choices.
And you're another one whom I don't usually agree with. Except that we are in agreement here this time around.

[TrueBlue]

You were noticeably absent from the "Many Lies of Hillary Clinton" thread. Why's that?
If there is such a thread floating around it has to be fraught with nothing but lies about her, that's why. No need to even take a peek in there if it's coming from a right-winger or right-wing source. I understand that you are not a right-winger except that you probably are since you support most of their ideas.

[Tahuyaman]

If you say "I will do this," or "I believe this," and then later say you will do or believe something that contradicts what you originally said you would do or believe, you are lying.

I think you are demonstrating that you have no core beliefs. I'm not going to argue that is a better trait to have.

[Tahuyaman]

If there is such a thread floating around it has to be fraught with nothing but lies about her, that's why. No need to even take a peek in there if it's coming from a right-winger or right-wing source. I understand that you are not a right-winger except that you probably are since you support most of their ideas.

Can you seriously tell us which doccumented lie by Hillary Clinton is in itself a lie?

[Tahuyaman]

There's not much difference between the Trump and Clinton supporters. Both seem to base most of their support on party affiliation.

When it comes to the issue of truthfulness, Hillary has a track record of running fast and loose with truth over a long period of time, even under oath.

Trump has been changing his positions and demonstrated a lot of inconsistencies as the campaign has gone on. Waffling and changing positions is not lying. It's showing that you have no core beliefs.


What a dumb analysis.

trump supporters are 180 degrees removed from the beliefs of hillary voters.

The same as democrats strongly differ from the basic beliefs of republicans.

yes we will vote for the party nominee because our be
iefs are so different from liberal democrats who are voting for hillry

because they are the only two candidates with a chance to be elected president

I'll be reasonably polite to you in spite of your opening comment.

You are very similar to the Hillary supporters in that you support Trump based on party affiliation just like many of the Clinton followers.

If your beliefs were so important, you would not be supporting someone who has demonstrated that he has no core beliefs.

I know exactly what Democrats believe in today. I have no idea what the average Republican stands for any more.

[Green Arrow]

If there is such a thread floating around it has to be fraught with nothing but lies about her, that's why. No need to even take a peek in there if it's coming from a right-winger or right-wing source. I understand that you are not a right-winger except that you probably are since you support most of their ideas.

I've linked to the thread in the OP and the source used is Politifact, not nearly a right-wing source.

I am curious, though. What right-wing ideas do you think I support?

[Green Arrow]

I think you are demonstrating that you have no core beliefs. I'm not going to argue that is a better trait to have.

I agree that you are demonstrating that you have no core beliefs, but you are also demonstrating that you are a liar.

[del]

Well, we don't often agree on things at all but this time I can agree with that. It's the same as saying that voting from Trump is voting against Hillary. They may think it is but they are not fooling anyone but themselves. Actually, it is simply what it is -- A Vote For Trump. Period.

a vote for hillary is a vote for a vicious, lying weasel

[Tahuyaman]

I agree that you are demonstrating that you have no core beliefs, but you are also demonstrating that you are a liar.


That's splitting hairs, but it's Ok in this case.

I believe Hillary Clinton intentionally and knowingly lies. I believe Trump has no core beliefs and be led to any conclusion. Neither one is presidential material.

[Tahuyaman]

Can you seriously tell us which doccumented lie by Hillary Clinton is in itself a lie?


I doubt that @TrueBlue (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=1308) will attempt to provide a serious answer to that question.

[maineman]

I conducted an experiment this week that turned out rather interesting, with results that actually surprised me.

First, I posted a thread lampooning Hillary Clinton, The Many Lies of Hillary Clinton (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/70421-The-Many-Lies-of-Hillary-Clinton). Then, I posted a thread lampooning Trump on the same lines, The Many Flip-Flops of Donald Trump (http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/70495-The-Many-Flip-Flops-of-Donald-Trump).


The responses from Clinton supporters in the Clinton thread were swift and immediate. First was Common Sense:



Then maineman asked me this:


AZ Jim tried to "refute" my list of Clinton lies by posting an article from the same source as every one of the Clinton lies I posted, that compared the site's own measurements of Trump's lies versus Clinton's lies, and came to the conclusion that Trump had more dishonest statements, ergo Trump was more dishonest. Nevermind that this didn't actually address the fact that Clinton still has a lot of lies according to that same source...

Interestingly enough, the responses from Clinton supporters started out fairly polite, but got progressively nastier as the thread went on. The only person in the thread to actually attempt to refute any of the Clinton lies was, fascinatingly, hanger4, a conservative Trump voter.

Contrast this with the Trump thread (just one day younger than the Clinton thread).

Several Trump supporters chimed into the thread, but not to refute the lies and flip-flopping inconsistency of Trump. They actually ACKNOWLEDGED their candidate's flaws, and then explained why they were voting for him anyway. Probably my favorite Trump voter response in that thread was from FindersKeepers, who I am quickly growing a lot of respect for:



The disparity in the responses to the two threads is particularly glaring considering the narratives about this presidential election. Democrats are using "love trumps hate" as a major campaign slogan and are criticizing Trump and his supporters for using fear and hatred as a political tool. We are constantly reminded that Trump is a bully that lashes out at people nastily at the first sign of disagreement or criticism. Hillary Clinton herself claimed half of Trump's supporters were "deplorables" and her supporters have capitalized on that.

And yet...here we are.

It's a fascinating study, really.

you applaud someone who will vote for Trump as the lesser of two evils, but castigate others who will vote for Clinton as the lesser of two evils.

Can you type that hypocritical bullshit without giggling as you do so, you self righteous prick?

[Green Arrow]

you applaud someone who will vote for Trump as the lesser of two evils, but castigate others who will vote for Clinton as the lesser of two evils.

Can you type that hypocritical bullshit without giggling as you do so, you self righteous prick?

I didn't applaud FK for voting for Trump as the lesser of two evils, I applauded FK for being honest, respectful, and reasonable.

[maineman]

I didn't applaud FK for voting for Trump as the lesser of two evils, I applauded FK for being honest, respectful, and reasonable.Have I been dishonest in any way when I have said - repeatedly - that I am voting for the lesser of two evils?

Is kissing your ass really necessary?

[Green Arrow]

Have I been dishonest in any way when I have said - repeatedly - that I am voting for the lesser of two evils?

Is kissing your ass really necessary?

I've never claimed you were dishonest for anything, particularly your reasoning for voting for Clinton.

And no, I'm not asking for anything but consistency and a refrain from hypocrisy.

[maineman]

if you honestly think you have been even handed in your criticism/praise of other posters on this issue, you need to take a serious look at your own objectivity.

gfy

[Hal Jordan]

if you honestly think you have been even handed in your criticism/praise of other posters on this issue, you need to take a serious look at your own objectivity.

gfy

Let's see, he's dealt with the ones that have insulted him more harshly than those that haven't, but other than that, he has been very even-handed. He has responded to similar replies in the same way. Look through both threads. You'd have to be blinded to miss it.

[Tahuyaman]

Have I been dishonest in any way when I have said - repeatedly - that I am voting for the lesser of two evils?

Is kissing your ass really necessary?


Actually, you have made it abundantly clear in the past that your primary consideration is party affiliation.

[Green Arrow]

if you honestly think you have been even handed in your criticism/praise of other posters on this issue, you need to take a serious look at your own objectivity.

gfy

You've made a lot of accusations and haven't once offered a shred of evidence to back them up.

[maineman]

You've made a lot of accusations and haven't once offered a shred of evidence to back them up.

a lot of accusations? a lot??? is that more than three, four, five? a lot? Can you offer a shred of evidence to back that up? Can you list this lot of accusations?

[Bethere]

You've made a lot of accusations and haven't once offered a shred of evidence to back them up.

We didn't take your little experiment seriously, we still don't. Your results are strongly influenced by our lack of respect for the project.

[FindersKeepers]

and again, claiming a vote for trump is somehow not a vote for trump is asinine.

I don't think anyone is making that claim.

Of course a vote for Trump is a vote for Trump, but a vote for Trump (or any candidate) does not necessarily indicate undying support for said candidate.

Perhaps you live in a world that's either black or white, but most people live in a world that's populated with many shades of gray.

If you still can't grasp that concept -- well -- enjoy your day.

[FindersKeepers]

We didn't take your little experiment seriously, we still don't. Your results are strongly influenced by our lack of respect for the project.

I haven't noticed an abundance of respect from you toward any topic here.

Green Arrow at least tried to delve a little deeper, rather than just skimming by on the surface as many people, yourself included, do on a daily basis.

If it's simpler to populate the lemming brigade, by all means, do so.

But, don't do the "we" thing in an attempt to garner a false feeling of support. Intelligent folks appreciate those who think and act independently.

[FindersKeepers]

I didn't applaud FK for voting for Trump as the lesser of two evils, I applauded FK for being honest, respectful, and reasonable.

Thank you, Green Arrow.

While I know you don't agree with me on substance, you approached this topic honestly and with integrity.

It's difficult for posters to discuss issues on message boards such as this one without becoming polarized.

The internet, itself, while offering us the ability to communicate with others in far corners of the world (because of it, actually) -- is polarizing. Racial division, political shaming, agendas; all run the risk of "going viral."

Many here blame Obama for increased racial division and unrest in our nation and I agree that he contributed, but 50 years ago, his comments would not have had the same polarizing effect they have today. Back then, folks would have read his knee-jerk reaction to Trayvon's death, or to the professor's arrest, and they might have discussed it at the barber shop or at the dinner table. Today, a few hours after he made the comments, lines in the sand were drawn. Protesters were spilling out into the streets. Counter-protesters were making plans via email/Facebook/blog.

We're going to have to learn how to control this two-headed monster or it could very well lead to our demise.

[Bethere]

I haven't noticed an abundance of respect from you toward any topic here.

Green Arrow at least tried to delve a little deeper, rather than just skimming by on the surface as many people, yourself included, do on a daily basis.

If it's simpler to populate the lemming brigade, by all means, do so.

But, don't do the "we" thing in an attempt to garner a false feeling of support. Intelligent folks appreciate those who think and act independently.

Considering that no one took the bait i'd have to say that 'we'was the perfect word choice.

[FindersKeepers]

Considering that no one took the bait i'd have to say that 'we'was the perfect word choice.

Whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

[Common Sense]

True. I think it's part of this attitude that is pretty widespread in America that we can basically do whatever we want, but can still be immune from taking responsibility for the impact of our choices.

Yes, that's pretty much what I was getting at in the comment you quoted me on.

I don't really see a huge disparity in the responses. I know Hillary Clinton has major flaws, I didn't know I was supposed to reiterate that in every response. But I wasn't going to go point by point over this list of lies.

I don't really see any "gotcha moment" in this so called experiment.

[Tahuyaman]

The bottom line here is that there is very little difference between the Trump or Clinton voter.

They argue so bitterly because they are so much alike.

[MisterVeritis]

Thank you, Green Arrow.

While I know you don't agree with me on substance, you approached this topic honestly and with integrity.

It's difficult for posters to discuss issues on message boards such as this one without becoming polarized.

The internet, itself, while offering us the ability to communicate with others in far corners of the world (because of it, actually) -- is polarizing. Racial division, political shaming, agendas; all run the risk of "going viral."

Many here blame Obama for increased racial division and unrest in our nation and I agree that he contributed, but 50 years ago, his comments would not have had the same polarizing effect they have today. Back then, folks would have read his knee-jerk reaction to Trayvon's death, or to the professor's arrest, and they might have discussed it at the barber shop or at the dinner table. Today, a few hours after he made the comments, lines in the sand were drawn. Protesters were spilling out into the streets. Counter-protesters were making plans via email/Facebook/blog.

We're going to have to learn how to control this two-headed monster or it could very well lead to our demise.
Soros money funds plenty of "grassroots" fly in overnight riot and chaos support. In Charlotte 7% of the arrests were from people who came from out of town (I believe out of state).

The goal is to get the black voters behind Illary. (I don't know if it will work, no one is excited about voting for the Crooked monster).

[Tahuyaman]

You don't need a major effort to coax blacks to vote for the Drmocrat.

[MisterVeritis]

You don't need a major effort to coax blacks to vote for the Drmocrat.
Crooked Illary is no Barrack Hussein Obama. Other than Trueblue who is on fire to go vote for Illary?

[Tahuyaman]

Crooked Illary is no Barrack Hussein Obama. Other than Trueblue who is on fire to go vote for Illary?


So, she'll get 92% of the black vote instead of 98%.

[Tahuyaman]

Crooked Illary is no Barrack Hussein Obama. Other than Trueblue who is on fire to go vote for Illary?


TrueBlue would be on fire for anyone running as a Democrat. Even Trump.

[MisterVeritis]

So, she'll get 92% of the black vote instead of 98%.
Do you understand the difference between turn out and vote percentages? In the last election, 66% of eligible black voters showed up to vote. What happens if that number drops to 50% of eligible black voters turn out? I believe your realism is simply ignorance.

[Tahuyaman]

You can never be anything other than disagreeable.

[Tahuyaman]

It's discouraging that we have so many closed minded hacks today. Something has to change. I don't know where we are heading.

[MisterVeritis]

You can never be anything other than disagreeable.
Sometimes you have to hit a mule upside its head to get its attention.

[MisterVeritis]

It's discouraging that we have so many closed minded hacks today. Something has to change. I don't know where we are heading.
Irony.

[Tahuyaman]

Irony.

How is that ironic, when I'm one here who's not blindly following along a party line? I'm the one going against a party line and thinking for myself.

You? Not so much.....

[Tahuyaman]

Sometimes you have to hit a mule upside its head to get its attention.



And and sometimes the mule kicks back.

You have a lot in common with the blind partisan Hillary supporters.

[MisterVeritis]

How is that ironic, when I'm one here who's not blindly following along a party line? I'm the one going against a party line and thinking for myself.

You? Not so much.....
It is ironic that a blind man is calling out blindness he sees in others. You are still blind. You just don't know it. And every day you beat your Hillary is going to win drum. Every day. Not so secretly you have become emotionally invested in a Crooked Illary win.

Don't kid yourself. When Trump wins you will wonder what happened.

[MisterVeritis]

And and sometimes the mule kicks back.
You have a lot in common with the blind partisan Hillary supporters.
Your shit is weak.

[Adelaide]

Tahuyaman and Misterveritis thread banned at request of OP.

[ripmeister]

Tahuyaman and Misterveritis thread banned at request of OP.

Wow! Mr V is two for two today!