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pjohns
10-11-2016, 02:21 PM
Even before, it appeared a bit of a longshot that Donald Trump might win the presidency.

However, what with the recent statement by Paul Ryan (he will no longer campaign with the man), plus the recent defections of other prominent GOP lawmakers (e.g. Sen. Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire and Rep. Jason Chafetz of Utah), it now appears that a civil war is brewing within the Republican Party.

And this, of course, is a war between the so-called "Establishment Republicans" and the anti-establishment (or populist) forces, led by Donald Trump.

Apart from the upcoming presidential election, I wonder if the GOP can survive as a viable party if it is halved because of this civil war...

MisterVeritis
10-11-2016, 02:26 PM
Even before, it appeared a bit of a longshot that Donald Trump might win the presidency.

However, what with the recent statement by Paul Ryan (he will no longer campaign with the man), plus the recent defections of other prominent GOP lawmakers (e.g. Sen. Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire and Rep. Jason Chafetz of Utah), it now appears that a civil war is brewing within the Republican Party.

And this, of course, is a war between the so-called "Establishment Republicans" and the anti-establishment (or populist) forces, led by Donald Trump.

Apart from the upcoming presidential election, I wonder if the GOP can survive as a viable party if it is halved because of this civil war...
Given that Congressional Republicans will not fight to prevent Clinton from winning the White House I encourage all Republicans to vote for Trump but for no down-ticket Republican contenders. I heard some flake on the radio call Trump's campaign scorched Earth. Well, let's give the Republicans what they have earned.

Trump is going to win. But if he does not there is no point in holding the House or the Senate. The Republicans would continue to be rubber stamps for the tyranny anyway.

AZ Jim
10-11-2016, 02:32 PM
The actions of repubs over the last 8 years has made America see them as the party of discontent, obstruction and slimy tricks. Now, having selected Trump they sealed their fate and it is leaving a party in total ruin.

The Xl
10-11-2016, 02:35 PM
Hopefully this leads to the GOP becoming an actual party for their constituents, and not some pseudo democrat light party filled with globalist proxies.

MisterVeritis
10-11-2016, 02:37 PM
The actions of repubs over the last 8 years has made America see them as the party of discontent, obstruction and slimy tricks. Now, having selected Trump they sealed their fate and it is leaving a party in total ruin.
Trump is going to win. The down-ticket Republicans who abandoned Trump in this fight will lose.

Chris
10-11-2016, 02:45 PM
It'll likely survive. I mean, Trump is a populist flash in the pan. He wins it might be a different story but he loses, his supporters scatter. The GOP need only adapt to what they want and pick up the pieces.

Peter1469
10-11-2016, 02:46 PM
We need a party for fiscal conservatives. Or just let the Establishment crash the economy.

MisterVeritis
10-11-2016, 02:46 PM
It'll likely survive. I mean, Trump is a populist flash in the pan. He wins it might be a different story but he loses, his supporters scatter. The GOP need only adapt to what they want and pick up the pieces.
I encourage all Republicans to vote for Trump but to withhold your down-ticket vote.

Cigar
10-11-2016, 02:46 PM
They don't fight, they just like to walk around with Guns looking Bad :laugh:

del
10-11-2016, 02:48 PM
I encourage all Republicans to vote for Trump but to withhold your down-ticket vote.

by all means.

hillary would love to have congress in her pocket.

:rolleyes:

Newpublius
10-11-2016, 02:52 PM
Even before, it appeared a bit of a longshot that Donald Trump might win the presidency.

However, what with the recent statement by Paul Ryan (he will no longer campaign with the man), plus the recent defections of other prominent GOP lawmakers (e.g. Sen. Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire and Rep. Jason Chafetz of Utah), it now appears that a civil war is brewing within the Republican Party.

And this, of course, is a war between the so-called "Establishment Republicans" and the anti-establishment (or populist) forces, led by Donald Trump.

Apart from the upcoming presidential election, I wonder if the GOP can survive as a viable party if it is halved because of this civil war...

Sure, Denocratic party, as a party survived the Civil.War. So be it, the parties have an evolutionary push on the other. The marketplace of ideas remains quite vibrant. Limoted government, free trade for instance will still be viable ideas for a long time to come. So too will neo-mercantalism......but I digress. If a big tent party like the Republican party has a Civil War, it loses power but will reform in viable opposition to the Democrats, who themselves still have internal pushes!

nathanbforrest45
10-11-2016, 03:02 PM
never mind

Wrong forum

Green Arrow
10-11-2016, 05:17 PM
It depends on how the GOP handles it. This happened before, albeit somewhat differently, in 1912. Teddy Roosevelt came back into the political arena to challenge incumbent William Taft in the primary. The GOP machine (controlled by party bosses and their corporate masters) felt Taft's slight conservative lean was preferable to Roosevelt's full progressivism (nevermind that Taft was harder on trusts than Roosevelt), and Taft won. TR took his faction with him and formed the Progressive Party. Democrat Woodrow Wilson won the presidency. Wilson gets two terms, the GOP takes the WH back for 12 years.

After a stinging round of defeats courtesy of a disastrous Hoover and a powerhouse pol like FDR, the GOP becomes a stronger party than they ever had been, and 40 years after FDR have the two biggest presidential blowouts in history.

MisterVeritis
10-11-2016, 05:33 PM
by all means.

hillary would love to have congress in her pocket.

:rolleyes:
If Clinton wins she would not face any problem with a Republican Congress. The Congress capitulated on every important issue. There is no reason to have them.
Have at it. The nation will collapse a bit quicker.

exotix
10-12-2016, 06:46 AM
Eventually we'll have to march conservatives off to *disappear* in FEMA Camps.

Chris
10-12-2016, 08:52 AM
I encourage all Republicans to vote for Trump but to withhold your down-ticket vote.

Not a Republican. Most likely will not vote.

Chris
10-12-2016, 08:53 AM
Eventually we'll have to march conservatives off to *disappear* in FEMA Camps.

The final solution?

NapRover
10-12-2016, 09:04 AM
The actions of repubs over the last 8 years has made America see them as the party of discontent, obstruction and slimy tricks. Now, having selected Trump they sealed their fate and it is leaving a party in total ruin.
your apparent amnesia regarding the previous 8 years under W is striking. Just FYI, reid and pelosi weren't exactly carrying W's water around.

maineman
10-12-2016, 09:09 AM
Trump is going to win. The down-ticket Republicans who abandoned Trump in this fight will lose.

your whistling past the graveyard schtick is getting pretty lame and shopworn at this point.

pjohns
10-12-2016, 12:55 PM
your apparent amnesia regarding the previous 8 years under W is striking. Just FYI, reid and pelosi weren't exactly carrying W's water around.

Az Jim (to whom you are responding here) is a mere troll. He does not wish to discus the matter analytically, but merely to take every opportunity to bash the Republican Party.

Needless to say, I have no use, whatsoever, for non-analytical partisans--of any stripe...

Cigar
10-12-2016, 01:02 PM
Even before, it appeared a bit of a longshot that Donald Trump might win the presidency.

However, what with the recent statement by Paul Ryan (he will no longer campaign with the man), plus the recent defections of other prominent GOP lawmakers (e.g. Sen. Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire and Rep. Jason Chafetz of Utah), it now appears that a civil war is brewing within the Republican Party.

And this, of course, is a war between the so-called "Establishment Republicans" and the anti-establishment (or populist) forces, led by Donald Trump.

Apart from the upcoming presidential election, I wonder if the GOP can survive as a viable party if it is halved because of this civil war...


The GOP can't even survive one skinny black community organizer w/o bed wetting themselves into oblivion :laugh:

ripmeister
10-12-2016, 02:37 PM
I heard an interesting analysis on the radio today where the speaker felt a candidate could meld the populism of Trump with the traditional conservatism of the GOP and be quite effective. This person felt that Trump really represents a third party that just happened to hijack the GOP this go around (said same thing about Bernie). They stressed that Trump tapped into something with his populist message but that all the other baggage that came along with it made him upalatable to a lot of Republicans.

pjohns
10-12-2016, 04:49 PM
I heard an interesting analysis on the radio today where the speaker felt a candidate could meld the populism of Trump with the traditional conservatism of the GOP and be quite effective. This person felt that Trump really represents a third party that just happened to hijack the GOP this go around (said same thing about Bernie). They stressed that Trump tapped into something with his populist message but that all the other baggage that came along with it made him upalatable to a lot of Republicans.

That is a pretty good analysis, I think.

However, as this radio personality (correctly) noted, Donald Trump did "hijack" the Republican Party.

His supporters have often characterized it as a "movement"--not a mere campaign.

If this is, indeed, the case, I cannot see why they would not have started a third party, in order to get their message across.

That does seem like the honorable thing to have done...

Dr. Who
10-12-2016, 06:30 PM
That is a pretty good analysis, I think.

However, as this radio personality (correctly) noted, Donald Trump did "hijack" the Republican Party.

His supporters have often characterized it as a "movement"--not a mere campaign.

If this is, indeed, the case, I cannot see why they would not have started a third party, in order to get their message across.

That does seem like the honorable thing to have done...
Probably because the duopoly does everything possible to shut out third parties from the process and the individual states often also throw up road-blocks in terms of the number of people who are required to form a legitimate party. Then there is the whole first past the post system that basically kills any chances of a third party to gain any political presence. Fund raising is also a problem when no one believes that you can overcome the overwhelming obstacles. As a consequence, those third party types end up trying to work within the two established parties.

Adelaide
10-12-2016, 10:29 PM
I don't think that this is a civil war - most Republicans seem to either avoid the Trump controversy or speak against it. Come next election season when Trump is out of the way, I'm sure they'll be back to their status quo.

ripmeister
10-12-2016, 10:40 PM
How many Trump voters were actually Rs pre-Trump. With all the open primaries and last minute registrations I seem to remember reports of lots of independents and blue collar dems voting in the R primaries. This dovetails with the idea of it being a movement that took over the party. If that's correct they won't return unless another messiah comes to the fore and runs R.

Peter1469
10-13-2016, 05:06 AM
People aren't suddenly going to embrace the path towards globalism after the election is over.

And there are general elections in many European nations in 2017. The fight goes on.

FindersKeepers
10-13-2016, 05:15 AM
People aren't suddenly going to embrace the path towards globalism after the election is over.

And there are general elections in many European nations in 2017. The fight goes on.


True.

A movement is beginning to rise against globalism and it's not going away any time soon.

It just awakened. It's still, for the most part, in its infancy.

But -- it's here to stay.

pjohns
10-13-2016, 12:04 PM
A movement is beginning to rise against globalism and it's not going away any time soon.

One example of this was the recent Brexit vote in Britain--which surprised (no, shocked!) many people...

pjohns
10-13-2016, 12:05 PM
Then there is the whole first past the post system that basically kills any chances of a third party to gain any political presence.

What do you mean, exactly, by a "first past the post system"?

pjohns
10-13-2016, 12:06 PM
[T]hose third party types end up trying to work within the two established parties.

Well, Ross Perot did not, in 1992...

FindersKeepers
10-13-2016, 12:07 PM
One example of this was the recent Brexit vote in Britain--which surprised (no, shocked!) many people...

Very true.

There's something contrary to human nature about allowing a global cabal to govern your every move.

The non-lemmings are pushing back and saying no.

AZ Jim
10-13-2016, 12:16 PM
Az Jim (to whom you are responding here) is a mere troll. He does not wish to discus the matter analytically, but merely to take every opportunity to bash the Republican Party.

Needless to say, I have no use, whatsoever, for non-analytical partisans--of any stripe...Good! I don't like you and do not want to deal with dense people so be gone. Dismissed!

Green Arrow
10-13-2016, 12:46 PM
What do you mean, exactly, by a "first past the post system"?

It's another term for "winner-take-all."

Green Arrow
10-13-2016, 12:47 PM
Well, Ross Perot did not, in 1992...

He was successful, too. Scared the R&D dictators enough to make them change the debate criteria to ensure only R&D would make it in.