So, who won the VP debate? Does anyone care?

[Deadwood]

ABC News seems to be giving a slight edge to Ryan, bit notes that Biden was the more seasoned campaigner. They nailed him for having his foot on the gas peddle way too much and criticized his antics and laughing at Ryan as childish....

In the end, the panel basically said the debate changed nothing, there will be no news stories coming out of it......

I would tend to agree...


And you say?

[Captain Obvious]

Kinda what I expected.

Ryan didn't do anything stupid and that's all that matters. Probably be viewed as a tie of sorts, but I did state in another thread that it wasn't going to be a Ryan whitewash - Biden's been around the block too many times for that.

... and I was right. Go figure.

[GrassrootsConservative]

First few polls say Biden won, but I think we need to look at the long-term over tomorrow for people who had to record it that couldn't watch it live. I think Biden's face and gestures and laughing will show up in the polls. I think in the future no politician will ever be as rude and condescending during a debate.

[shaarona]

First few polls say Biden won, but I think we need to look at the long-term over tomorrow for people who had to record it that couldn't watch it live. I think Biden's face and gestures and laughing will show up in the polls. I think in the future no politician will ever be as rude and condescending during a debate.

You expected Biden to pamper Ryan? Ryan had no facts and his math was fuzzy.

[Deadwood]

Kinda what I expected.

Ryan didn't do anything stupid and that's all that matters. Probably be viewed as a tie of sorts, but I did state in another thread that it wasn't going to be a Ryan whitewash - Biden's been around the block too many times for that.

... and I was right. Go figure.

It happens, I agree, rarely, but you were right. But then so was I....even rarer.

[Chris]

Like a lot of "debates" on the forum, it was prickly but in the end no one won.

Biden had to win big to turn the tide though, and that didn't happen.

http://i.snag.gy/dFHmS.jpg

[Deadwood]

First few polls say Biden won, but I think we need to look at the long-term over tomorrow for people who had to record it that couldn't watch it live. I think Biden's face and gestures and laughing will show up in the polls. I think in the future no politician will ever be as rude and condescending during a debate.



Yeah, that surprised me. I have been saying all along he is a seasoned pro and he would slap 'sonny boy' a few times, but that was over the top. And what was with the scribbling, like he was keeping score so he could tell the teacher on him.

Basically a draw though

[roadmaster]

Biden couldn't deny that Obama gave sympathies to the ones who attacked us. Smiling doesn't make it any better. I wonder if the ones killed felt warm and fuzzy? Biden was over this. He can smile all he wants but he screwed up big time.

[roadmaster]

You expected Biden to pamper Ryan? Ryan had no facts and his math was fuzzy.

He doesn't need to pamper Ryan, just tell the truth.

[Deadwood]

He doesn't need to pamper Ryan, just tell the truth.

You expect that from a politician?


Ooh.....

[shaarona]

He doesn't need to pamper Ryan, just tell the truth.

Ryan was doing fuzzy lie stacking.. and he doesn't have a clue about foreign policy.

[roadmaster]

You expect that from a politician?


Ooh.....

No not most. We shouldn't have to handle 4 more years of Obama.

[Chris]

Ryan was doing fuzzy lie stacking.. and he doesn't have a clue about foreign policy.


fuzzy lie stacking

What's that?

[Deadwood]

What's that?

I think what is questioned is the answer.....

[shaarona]

What's that?

Did you hear what Ryan said about Obama appointing a medical panel to decide on senior healthcare? LOLOLOL..

Shades of Sarah Palin.. and a complete lie.

[Captain Obvious]

What's that?

Similar to a Cleveland steamer.

[Chris]

Did you hear what Ryan said about Obama appointing a medical panel to decide on senior healthcare? LOLOLOL..

Shades of Sarah Palin.. and a complete lie.

Perhaps the "fuzzy lie stacking" is in exaggerating what Ryan said.

Obama’s Ex-Adviser Admits Obamacare Can’t Work Without Death Panels (http://politicaloutcast.com/2012/10/obamas-ex-adviser-admits-obamacare-cant-work-without-death-panels/#ixzz293J7C7Kj): "In a column a couple of weeks ago in the New York Times, former Obama adviser Steven Rattner wrote, “We need death panels. Well, maybe not death panels, exactly, but unless we start allocating health care resources more prudently — rationing, by its proper name — the exploding cost of Medicare will swamp the federal budget.”"

[texmaster]

I thought Biden won. Ryan was far too nervous and did not make the strong points Romney made.

But, Biden's attitude made him loose with the independents or "stupid people" for the technical term because these morons care more about likeability and demeanor than they do substance.

I was disappointed in Ryan. He should have been much stronger.

[shaarona]

RYAN: "What troubles me more is how this administration has handled all of these issues. Look at what they're doing through Obamacare with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. They're infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals."

THE FACTS: The requirement under the health care law that most employers cover birth control free of charge to female employees does not apply to churches, houses of worship, or other institutions directly involved in propagating a religious faith. It does apply to church-affiliated institutions such as hospitals and charities that serve the general public.

[shaarona]

RYAN: "We cannot allow Iran to gain a nuclear weapons capability. Now, let's take a look at where we've gone — come from. When Barack Obama was elected, they had enough fissile material — nuclear material — to make one bomb. Now they have enough for five. They're racing toward a nuclear weapon. They're four years closer toward a nuclear weapons capability."

THE FACTS: Ryan's claim is misleading. Iran isn't believed to have produced any of the highly enriched uranium needed to produce even one nuclear weapon, let alone five. That point isn't even disputed by Israel, whose Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu implored the world at the United Nations last month to create a "red line" at enrichment above 20 percent. Iran would have to enrich uranium at much higher levels to produce a weapon. There is intelligence suggesting that Iran has worked on weapon designs, but not that it has developed a delivery system for any potential nuclear warhead.

[Brewskier]

Biden came across a petulant drunk, and that is going to cost him. Independents are put off by that kind of debating tactic. Romney was aggressive, but it never came across as disrespectful. Biden went way over that line.

To be fair though, Biden did get a few clean shots in on Ryan. Ryan did the same.

[texmaster]

RYAN: "What troubles me more is how this administration has handled all of these issues. Look at what they're doing through Obamacare with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. They're infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals."

THE FACTS: The requirement under the health care law that most employers cover birth control free of charge to female employees does not apply to churches, houses of worship, or other institutions directly involved in propagating a religious faith. It does apply to church-affiliated institutions such as hospitals and charities that serve the general public.

Spare us Margot. The FACT is that Obamcare forces Catholic hospitals to financially support something against their practiced religion, period end of story.

No wiggle room here for you.

[Brewskier]

What's that?

Liberals have been using that term all day. It must be the propaganda word of the day from their George Soros funded talking points list.

[Chris]

Liberals have been using that term all day. It must be the propaganda word of the day from their George Soros funded talking points list.

I see, their latest meaningless meme.

[shaarona]

Biden came across a petulant drunk, and that is going to cost him. Independents are put off by that kind of debating tactic. Romney was aggressive, but it never came across as disrespectful. Biden went way over that line.

To be fair though, Biden did get a few clean shots in on Ryan. Ryan did the same.

You want posturing over substance?

Its no wonder Biden was laughing at Ryan.

[shaarona]

Spare us Margot. The FACT is that Obamcare forces Catholic hospitals to financially support something against their practiced religion, period end of story.

No wiggle room here for you.

Check your FACTS.

[Canadianeye]

I had mentioned in another thread Ryan was prone to let things get under his skin, which was reactions in Apr 2011, when he was visibly upset after Obama, well, flat out attacked and disrespected him. It was noted how uncharacterisic it was for Obama to do that a bipartisan event to work through HC.

I think Biden was trying to produce a similar reaction from Ryan and he didn't get...and it cost him the debate. I think Ryan won out, no mistakes and Biden went too far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfPC1yiqKFY&feature=endscreen&NR=1

[shaarona]

I had mentioned in another thread Ryan was prone to let things get under his skin, which was reactions in Apr 2011, when he was visibly upset after Obama, well, flat out attacked and disrespected him. It was noted how uncharacterisic it was for Obama to do that a bipartisan event to work through HC.

I think Biden was trying to produce a similar reaction from Ryan and he didn't get...and it cost him the debate. I think Ryan won out, no mistakes and Biden went too far.

Why wouldn't Biden laugh?

Did you hear Ryan's nonsense about Afghanistan?

[Brewskier]

You want posturing over substance?

Its no wonder Biden was laughing at Ryan.

Biden was laughing because he was disrespectful and unpresidential. It had nothing to do with Ryan's position. Some people think that if they act like they have strength and condescend, it makes their position stronger. That's not the case, and I doubt many people (besides you, oh true believers) fell for it.

[shaarona]

Biden was laughing because he was disrespectful and unpresidential. It had nothing to do with Ryan's position. Some people think that if they act like they have strength and condescend, it makes their position stronger. That's not the case, and I doubt many people (besides you, oh true believers) fell for it.

Ryan was NOT well informed.. so he was fluffing it.

Wht could you do but laugh?

[Brewskier]

Ryan was NOT well informed.. so he was fluffing it.

I disagree with your baseless opinion.


Wht could you do but laugh?

Dumb people tend to laugh often. Sometimes I envy them, they always seem so happy.

[Trinnity]

Biden outright lied saying the embassy in Benghazi didn't ask for help. This scandal stinks to high heaven.

All people are gonna be talking about tomorrow is how rude Biden was. It was tacky, undignified and just plain damn rude. It will be the take away on him much more than anything Biden said.

[texmaster]

Check your FACTS.

I didn't expect you to actually make an argument. Thanks for staying predictable.

[BooHoo]

IMO Ryan won the debate based on substance and image. Biden seemed like he may have been on something?? He was far from presidential, constantly smirking and laughing instead of listening to Ryan speak. Also, I thought Biden was extremely defensive. He did not like it when Ryan made valid arguments. If I rememeber correctly Biden mostly interrupted Ryan as soon as he started making points.

[GrumpyDog]

Spare us Margot. The FACT is that Obamcare forces Catholic hospitals to financially support something against their practiced religion, period end of story.

No wiggle room here for you.

Wrong. If the employer with religious convictions does not wish to have the company insurance plan cover female employees contraception, then the government will automatically cover those costs, thus relieving the employer of having to be forced to do so.

What is insulting to women, is that DESPITE this, the employers in religious institutions, seem to think that the 1st amendment gives them the right to deny the woman contraception coverage PERIOD, regardless if it is paid for by the government.

Let me remind the religious employers AGAIN: Religious conviction DOES NOT give anyone the right to DENY rights to other non religious people, whether they be employees or not. It has been deemed by the US Supreme Court, that the Affordable Health Care Act IS Constitutional. THEREFORE, the contraception component of that plan IS Constitutional. Therefore, female employees CANNOT be denied the contraceptive health care coverage specified, ESPECIALLY NOW, that the cost is covered by government, NOT the employer.

In other words, no employer, religious or not, can deny an employee the right to have healthcare covered by the Affordable Health Care Act, if that employee wishes to be covered by such provisions, of which, contraception and reproductive healthcare are included.

[garyo]

It's a moot point, Romney is going to repeal this debacle of a sham crammed down the American people's throat.

[GrumpyDog]

More or less a draw. At least the VP was able to pay attention and respond in time, unlike Obama taking a dive (on purpose maybe), in the 1st debate.

If Obama takes a dive again, in the 2nd Presidential debate, then it is curtains. Nothing is worse than somebody betraying their own party, laughing about it, and saying it is just another game, move on, then repeating the same "not there, nor do I care" performance.

HEY MR. PRESIDENT:

WAKE THE F#$@ UP!

[hanger4]

Wrong. If the employer with religious convictions does not wish to have the company insurance plan cover female employees contraception, then the government will automatically cover those costs, thus relieving the employer of having to be forced to do so.

What is insulting to women, is that DESPITE this, the employers in religious institutions, seem to think that the 1st amendment gives them the right to deny the woman contraception coverage PERIOD, regardless if it is paid for by the government.

Let me remind the religious employers AGAIN: Religious conviction DOES NOT give anyone the right to DENY rights to other non religious people, whether they be employees or not. It has been deemed by the US Supreme Court, that the Affordable Health Care Act IS Constitutional. THEREFORE, the contraception component of that plan IS Constitutional. Therefore, female employees CANNOT be denied the contraceptive health care coverage specified, ESPECIALLY NOW, that the cost is covered by government, NOT the employer.

In other words, no employer, religious or not, can deny an employee the right to have healthcare covered by the Affordable Health Care Act, if that employee wishes to be covered by such provisions, of which, contraception and reproductive healthcare are included.


$10 a month contraception is a right now, I did not know that.

SCoUS case was all about the mandate, nothing else.

[Larry Dickman]

Biden came across a petulant drunk, and that is going to cost him. Independents are put off by that kind of debating tactic. Romney was aggressive, but it never came across as disrespectful. Biden went way over that line.

To be fair though, Biden did get a few clean shots in on Ryan. Ryan did the same.

I agree on both counts. The moderator was a joke. I thought early on based on her interrogation over Benghazi that it was going to be a fair fight, but as usual it was two against one with Ryan getting run over again and again, with nary a peep from slut mod.

[Chris]

For the most part, though, a smug Vice President Joe Biden, using a contemptuous tone and a smirk, attempted to deflect Ryan’s attacks on the administration’s economic record as “malarkey.” Ryan, conceding that Barack Obama had inherited a deep recession, argued that the administration had given us the weakest economic bounce-back in American history.

“This is not what a real recovery looks like,” Ryan said.

@ JOE BIDEN: MR. MALARKEY (http://www.humanevents.com/2012/10/12/biden-mr-malarkey-on-the-economy/)

That and the accompanying video are all that matter:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PCtemaHgjyA

It's the impressions you take away, and one or two policy points.

[Mainecoons]

What I'm reading and hearing this morning is that Biden's personal demeanor was a turn off and overshadowed his performance. Basically, he was just nasty and that is what people are remembering. As I expected, Biden was much better prepared and more articulate than Obama and was equal to Ryan in this aspect but negated that with his arrogance and sarcasm.

[Cigar]

I wish Joe would have just came out told the truth ... Paul you're a Fucking Liar! :)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b137/chasc5/121011-everyone-chill-the-fuck-out-biden-got-this.jpg

[Mainecoons]

Instead, like yourself, he made an indelible impression with his nastiness. Neither of you seem to understand what a turn off that is.

[IMPress Polly]

Biden won this one by a slim margin. The CBS poll of undecided voters showed him winning by 19 percent points. The CNN poll of debate viewers (which isn't the same thing as undecided voters) found that Ryan narrowly won, but the network was quick to highlight that Republicans were oversampled when compared to the nation as a whole and that the national reaction will probably skew more in Biden's favor therefore. The point is that the Obama campaign will regain some traction with undecided voters though as a result of this performance.

[Canadianeye]

What I'm reading and hearing this morning is that Biden's personal demeanor was a turn off and overshadowed his performance. Basically, he was just nasty and that is what people are remembering. As I expected, Biden was much better prepared and more articulate than Obama and was equal to Ryan in this aspect but negated that with his arrogance and sarcasm.

Yeah, Joe blew it and Ryan didn't hit any homeruns, but came off ok. Victory Ryan.

[shaarona]

Instead, like yourself, he made an indelible impression with his nastiness. Neither of you seem to understand what a turn off that is.

Biden was authentic... and his laughter was appropriate.

[Mainecoons]

I think Krauthammer pegged it:


“In the transcript, if you just look at the raw arguments, I think it was even because each side had points to make, it made them. I think on balance, not one side was stronger than the other,” Krauthammer explained.
If you heard it on radio, he said Biden would have sounded “aggressive, forceful – he was sort of on the attack all the time.“ He said Ryan reacted with ”excessive deference” and allowed himself to be cut off.
On Biden’s performance on television, Krauthammer said the vice president was “so disrespectful.”
“It was sort of almost unprecedented and hugely condescending. I think that undid the force of his arguments,” he added.

[Cigar]

Instead, like yourself, he made an indelible impression with his nastiness. Neither of you seem to understand what a turn off that is.

Politics is no place for Pussies ... and it's certainly no place to get "turned-on".

Buy a Magazine ... and untwist your Thong :)

[Mainecoons]

Thanks for proving my point--about both of you. :grin:

[Cigar]

Thanks for proving my point--about both of you. :grin:

Anything to help ... you just ask. :)

[Cigar]

I think Krauthammer pegged it:

Next time bring a Gun to a Gun Fight. :)

[birddog]

What I'm reading and hearing this morning is that Biden's personal demeanor was a turn off and overshadowed his performance. Basically, he was just nasty and that is what people are remembering. As I expected, Biden was much better prepared and more articulate than Obama and was equal to Ryan in this aspect but negated that with his arrogance and sarcasm.

I agree, plus Joe told so many lies than any sane person should find unacceptable.

[patrickt]

VP Biden's behavior was pure liberal. Snotty, lying, disrespectful not of Ryan but of the moderator and the audience, and absolutely felt the rules did not apply to him. The liberals are proud of their standard bearer.

[Canadianeye]

Win, loss, tie. Joes a knob, Ryan was soft...who cares. The important thing is, it kept the Romney thrashing of Obama in the spotlight ENDLESSLY on all MSM for another week.

Candy before Halloween.

[Cigar]

You are a tremendously foolish person. If I recall all that I have read of your claims as Margot, you were some police chief or something, you grew up in Arabia, you've had cheeseburgers with Parrot Head, and you were a lifelong Republican, until the reign of GWB.

You are, by far, the single most full of shit cyber persona I have ever come across. You must be mentally retarded in reality, with delusions of grandeur and possibly multiple personality disorder. I assume all your exclamations of a charmed erudite life make you feel like someone, but in reality your incessant need for attention makes you one big nobody.

I guess you just pulled that out of your Ass ?

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b137/chasc5/T-Paper-1.jpg

[Canadianeye]

Biden was authentic... and his laughter was appropriate.

Mmm hmm. And he cleared the whole Libya terrorist attack, citing twice "Well, we weren’t told they wanted more security there. We did not know they wanted more security..."

Really Joe? This is beyond a gaffe. It was a blatant lie, and the familys are starting to speak out already about this statement.

I guess he was authentic, in his reknowned special Biden idiocy way.

[respectfulguest]

can understand one's view that VP Biden could not help but laugh and smirk at some of the debate points, but when done on every single question it came off as rehearsed, arrogant and condescending, imo. get the whole politics is rough and so forth concept, but he is the incumbent VP of the US, seems VP Biden should be above this.

the base probably loved it, we'll see how it plays with undecided voters, regardless this will all be old news soon as the next Presidential debate is only a few days away (next Tuesday).

[Trinnity]

I wish Joe would have just came out told the truth ... Paul you're a Fucking Liar! :)


Oh really? You wish a sitting VP would call his opponent a "fucking liar" on national TV?

Biden has more common sense than you. Didn't see that coming.

[shaarona]

Mmm hmm. And he cleared the whole Libya terrorist attack, citing twice "Well, we weren’t told they wanted more security there. We did not know they wanted more security..."

Really Joe? This is beyond a gaffe. It was a blatant lie, and the familys are starting to speak out already about this statement.

I guess he was authentic, in his reknowned special Biden idiocy way.

You probably know that there are rival militias in Derna, Benghazi and Marsa Brega. I would expect there to be serious problems with reliable intelligence all over Eastern Libya..

[Trinnity]

The point is that the Obama campaign will regain some traction with undecided voters though as a result of this performance.I don't see that correlation at all. Undecided voters are looking closely and there's no reason to assume they'll be persuaded by Biden's arguments over Ryans. In fact, the most noticeable take away from the debate was Biden's rudeness.

[Trinnity]

Biden was authentic... and his laughter was appropriate.It was not. Wait for the polls on it. Most people are not impressed by someone who is rude in a debate.

[shaarona]

It was not. Wait for the polls on it. Most people are not impressed by someone who is rude in a debate.

He wasn't rude unless Ryan is fragile.. Biden seemed happy to me and made his position with gusto.

I happen to appreciate substance over "impressions".

[Trinnity]

VP Biden's behavior was pure liberal. Snotty, lying, disrespectful not of Ryan but of the moderator and the audience, and absolutely felt the rules did not apply to him. The liberals are proud of their standard bearer.
This ^

And America is fed up with it.

[Trinnity]

Mmm hmm. And he cleared the whole Libya terrorist attack, citing twice "Well, we weren’t told they wanted more security there. We did not know they wanted more security..."

Really Joe? This is beyond a gaffe. It was a blatant lie, and the familys are starting to speak out already about this statement.

I guess he was authentic, in his reknowned special Biden idiocy way.That was the most shocking thing he said all night. I gasped out loud. If a bold faced lie like that goes unnoticed, we're getting Thorazine in our water system.

[Deadwood]

I don't see that correlation at all. Undecided voters are looking closely and there's no reason to assume they'll be persuaded by Biden's arguments over Ryans. In fact, the most noticeable take away from the debate was Biden's rudeness.

Unfortunately, in today's politics image trumps substance. They both made points and on that it was at best a draw, with maybe an edge to Ryan.

However, the rudeness from Biden appears to be a compensation for Obama's opposite, flat performance.

IMO the Democrats are scrambling, in free fall and trying to find anything they can that will give them traction.

Biden's antics will play well with the committed, but I think will backfire with the 'soft" support, the majority of which, according to pollsters, decline to be polled.

[Calypso Jones]

odd. even cnn insta polls have Ryan as the winner. Not by much. Seems people did not particularly like Biden's demeanor. I find this extremely interesting.

[Calypso Jones]

I'm in an area of limited access to tv...how bout NONE. and then slow limited access for computer. Listened last nite on RADIO unfortunately and could not see body language. I knew Biden was rude and it occurred to me he could lose this based on his demeanor. Seems i was onto something after checking Drudge's front page this am. I'll continue to see what the consensus is today. Seems Ryan didn't do as badly as Cigar likes to claim.

But then.......Romney IS up and appears to be....gaining.

Looks like America, most of it anyway, has it's eyes opening.

[Trinnity]

He wasn't rude unless Ryan is fragile.. Biden seemed happy to me and made his position with gusto.

I happen to appreciate substance over "impressions".If you can't see or won't acknowledge he was rude, either your partisan bias overwhelms you, or you don't understand the expectation in civil society that in such a setting civility, dignity, and courtesy is appropriate.

If you expect people to be civil to "you", you must be civil in return. That applies in all circumstances, wouldn't you say, shaar? Hmmm??

[coolwalker]

Intelligent women were turned-off by Biden. Independents are scratching their heads still. Biden's base loved it, but then he could have stood up and pissed on Ryan and they would love it too. Biden did what he has done for 40 years...he was the laughable, likeable clown. It's how he got elected in the beginning and how he has stayed there for so long. I don't think anyone really won, but I believe Ryan proved to be a calm, level-headed gentleman.

[texmaster]

Wrong. If the employer with religious convictions does not wish to have the company insurance plan cover female employees contraception, then the government will automatically cover those costs, thus relieving the employer of having to be forced to do so.

What is insulting to women, is that DESPITE this, the employers in religious institutions, seem to think that the 1st amendment gives them the right to deny the woman contraception coverage PERIOD, regardless if it is paid for by the government.

Let me remind the religious employers AGAIN: Religious conviction DOES NOT give anyone the right to DENY rights to other non religious people, whether they be employees or not. It has been deemed by the US Supreme Court, that the Affordable Health Care Act IS Constitutional. THEREFORE, the contraception component of that plan IS Constitutional. Therefore, female employees CANNOT be denied the contraceptive health care coverage specified, ESPECIALLY NOW, that the cost is covered by government, NOT the employer.

In other words, no employer, religious or not, can deny an employee the right to have healthcare covered by the Affordable Health Care Act, if that employee wishes to be covered by such provisions, of which, contraception and reproductive healthcare are included.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Institutions with ties to the Catholic Church, such as hospitals and schools, say they are getting no exemption from the rule, which requires that health insurance plans cover contraceptive services.

The administration announced the rule, arising from the Affordable Care Act of 2010, about 10 days ago. Many church-affiliated institutions will have to cover free birth control for employees in what is largely seen as an election-year move that has outraged religious groups, fueling a national debate about the reach of government. In a concession, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said nonprofit institutions such as church-affiliated hospitals, colleges and social service agencies will have one additional year to comply with the requirement, issued in regulations under President Barack Obama's healthcare overhaul.
"I believe this proposal strikes the appropriate balance between respecting religious freedom and increasing access to important preventive services," Sebelius said in a statement.


[/URL]


http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/FreeBirthControl-ReligiousEmployers/2012/01/30/id/426049 (http://polls.newsmax.com/repeal/?PROMO_CODE=B683-1)

“The (national health-care law) literally requires an institution such as this — a Catholic hospital — to include abortion-inducing drugs in their health-care plans, which is in direct opposition to their ethical and moral and religious beliefs,” said the former U.S. representative of Wisconsin’s 1st Congressional District.

Last month, more than 40 Catholic organizations nationwide, including the University of Notre Dame in Notre Dame, Ind., and the Archdioceses of New York and Washington, filed a lawsuit against the Affordable Care Act.
“The federal mandate requires Notre Dame and similar religious organizations to provide in their insurance plans abortion-inducing drugs, contraceptives and sterilization procedures, which are contrary to Catholic teaching,” according to a statement from the University of Notre Dame.

[URL]http://wisconsinreporter.com/wi-neumann-blasts-obamacare-at-catholic-hospitals


Get your facts straight next time before you post not after.

[Mister D]

Unfortunately, in today's politics image trumps substance. They both made points and on that it was at best a draw, with maybe an edge to Ryan.

However, the rudeness from Biden appears to be a compensation for Obama's opposite, flat performance.

IMO the Democrats are scrambling, in free fall and trying to find anything they can that will give them traction.

Biden's antics will play well with the committed, but I think will backfire with the 'soft" support, the majority of which, according to pollsters, decline to be polled.

Antics describes Biden's performance well. It was definitely over-the-top and was done to compensate (over-compensate) for BO's dismal performance against Romney. I expect BO will also be obnoxious next week. The drones will be impressed but Romney will handle it well. I hope he shames BO.

[coolwalker]

Unfortunately, in today's politics image trumps substance. They both made points and on that it was at best a draw, with maybe an edge to Ryan.

However, the rudeness from Biden appears to be a compensation for Obama's opposite, flat performance.

IMO the Democrats are scrambling, in free fall and trying to find anything they can that will give them traction.

Biden's antics will play well with the committed, but I think will backfire with the 'soft" support, the majority of which, according to pollsters, decline to be polled.

You're on target and I expect Tuesday to see Obama trying the same game Biden did, only Obama isn't Biden and it won't work. While the media is patting Biden on the back, the administration in truth, probably isn't all that happy. They wanted a slam-dunk and all they got was a woosh.

[Mister D]

Honestly, Biden's antics were approached the grotesque. It's says a lot about us as a society that this could even happen.

[texmaster]

He wasn't rude unless Ryan is fragile.. Biden seemed happy to me and made his position with gusto.

I happen to appreciate substance over "impressions".

Forty-eight percent of voters who watched the vice presidential debate think that Rep. Paul Ryan won the showdown, according to a CNN/ORC International nationwide poll conducted right after Thursday night's faceoff. Forty-four percent say that Vice President Joe Biden was victorious.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

Now what Margot?

[IMPress Polly]

Trinnity wrote:
I don't see that correlation at all. Undecided voters are looking closely and there's no reason to assume they'll be persuaded by Biden's arguments over Ryans. In fact, the most noticeable take away from the debate was Biden's rudeness.

Poll results amongst undecided voters who watched the debate are a pretty good indication. It is just such people who will decide this election.

I think both of the debates thus far show that aggressiveness works regardless of party whether you and I like it or not.

Naturally, I strongly side with Biden, but I am not an undecided voter. I just found Ryan's Orwellian logic incredible: we have to privatize Medicare and Social Security in order to save them, we have to fire more workers (government workers) in order to create jobs, we have to impose austerity to avoid austerity, etc. I find it hard to get more dishonest than that.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Honestly, Biden's antics were approached the grotesque. It's says a lot about us as a society that this could even happen.

Looking back on it now with the veil of tiredness lifted after a night of great sleep, my memory now is that Joe Biden looked insane up there laughing at things like our troops dying in Afghanistan. Paul Ryan must have been so confused thinking he was up there with a man who gives a shit about something. He reminded me of a fourth grader who watches a war movie with a lot of shooting. People are dying on the screen and he's just sitting in his seat with his fat fingers buried in a bucket of popcorn as he spits out salty kernels.... "ha-ha, cool"... Really, Joe Biden? Have some respect.

[coolwalker]

I just found Ryan's Orwellian logic incredible: we have to privatize Medicare and Social Security in order to save them, we have to fire more workers (government workers) in order to create jobs, we have to impose austerity to avoid austerity, etc. I find it hard to get more dishonest than that.

Since SS and medicare have been looted for decades it is the only answer unless you loot from something else to give the money back to the original source. That is common sense. And...it won't affect people currently on the books or about to go on...only those 42 and younger, giving them time to decide what to do. That was honesty personified.

[Mister D]

Looking back on it now with the veil of tiredness lifted after a night of great sleep, my memory now is that Joe Biden looked insane up there laughing at things like our troops dying in Afghanistan. Paul Ryan must have been so confused thinking he was up there with a man who gives a shit about something. He reminded me of a fourth grader who watches a war movie with a lot of shooting. People are dying on the screen and he's just sitting in his seat with his fat fingers buried in a bucket of popcorn as he spits out salty kernels.... "ha-ha, cool"... Really, Joe Biden? Have some respect.

Biden made a face at almost everything Ryan said. He looked ridiculous. C. Krauthammer made a good point: if you listened to that on the radio you would think Biden won but if you watched it on television you would think Biden lost.

[Trinnity]

He wasn't rude unless Ryan is fragile.. Biden seemed happy to me and made his position with gusto.

I happen to appreciate substance over "impressions".He was rude. There is no question about that. What people will remember is that he was out of line in his demeanor. It will not be to his credit.

[bladimz]

can understand one's view that VP Biden could not help but laugh and smirk at some of the debate points, but when done on every single question it came off as rehearsed, arrogant and condescending, imo. get the whole politics is rough and so forth concept, but he is the incumbent VP of the US, seems VP Biden should be above this.

the base probably loved it, we'll see how it plays with undecided voters, regardless this will all be old news soon as the next Presidential debate is only a few days away (next Tuesday).While everyone was honing in on Biden's actions, everyone seemed to ignore Ryan's smirking; that snarky grin he did.

Anyone who knows Biden knows that what you see is what you get. There was nothing phony or rehearsed about him or his style. The man knows his politics and isn't afraid to make his point very clearly. We'll see how this all plays out over time, but if one thinks that Biden was out of line in his style, they then must admit that Romney bullied his way thru the first POTUS debate. In that regard, last night's moderator was much more effective and in control than Jim Lehrer, IMVHO.

[bladimz]

Biden won this one by a slim margin. The CBS poll of undecided voters showed him winning by 19 percent points. The CNN poll of debate viewers (which isn't the same thing as undecided voters) found that Ryan narrowly won, but the network was quick to highlight that Republicans were oversampled when compared to the nation as a whole and that the national reaction will probably skew more in Biden's favor therefore. The point is that the Obama campaign will regain some traction with undecided voters though as a result of this performance.
Additionally, that CNN poll was a sampling of just 381 viewers, and not an open poll available for general input. I might as well post the results of the Bladimz Poll, listing Biden as the hands-down winner, for pete's sake.

[garyo]

The Tampa Bay Times one of the most liberal papers in the country released their latest poll today showing Romney at 51% to Obama 44%.

[Trinnity]

Antics describes Biden's performance well. It was definitely over-the-top and was done to compensate (over-compensate) for BO's dismal performance against Romney. I expect BO will also be obnoxious next week. The drones will be impressed but Romney will handle it well. I hope he shames BO.

http://4.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/joe-biden-laughs.gifhttp://dailymilk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/funny-animated-gif-vice-presidential-debate-2012.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbrhp3UmTE1rdutw3o1_500.gif



Rude, sophomoric, overcompensating, inappropriate.

Result, -1

[GrassrootsConservative]

Trinnity, all that looks forced too. That last one looks so forced it's almost comical.

[Mister D]

http://dailymilk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/funny-animated-gif-vice-presidential-debate-2012.gif

http://4.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/joe-biden-laughs.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbrhp3UmTE1rdutw3o1_500.gif



Rude, sophomoric, overcompensating, inappropriate.

Result, -1

I mean really...if that is genuine he belongs in a nut house.

[Mister D]

Trinnity, all that looks forced too. That last one looks so forced it's almost comical.

Forced or he's a loon.

[garyo]

He is definitely a Looney Tune.

[Canadianeye]

http://dailymilk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/funny-animated-gif-vice-presidential-debate-2012.gif

http://4.mshcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/joe-biden-laughs.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbrhp3UmTE1rdutw3o1_500.gif



Rude, sophomoric, overcompensating, inappropriate.

Result, -1

On the heels of that day Sept 11th eleven years ago...imagine if it was this characterless ghoul who had been in front of those school children.

Joe-Ker is apt imagery.

[bladimz]

For those who thought that Biden floundered in his response to the Libyan attact and want to blame the Obama administration for the relaxed security at Benghazi, review this from the transcript from last night's debate: (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/10/12/transcript-the-2012-vp-debate/)


BIDEN: I will be very specific. Number one, the — this lecture on embassy security — the congressman here cut embassy security in his budget by $300 million below what we asked for, number one. So much for the embassy security piece.

Number two, Governor Romney, before he knew the facts, before he even knew that our ambassador was killed, he was out making a political statement which was panned by the media around the world. And this talk about this — this weakness. I — I don’t understand what my friend’s talking about here.Paul Ryan never contested that. I suspect because what Biden said was true...

[coolwalker]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbrhp3UmTE1rdutw3o1_500.gif



Rude, sophomoric, overcompensating, inappropriate.

Result, -1
Nothing is this funny for 2 hours!

[bladimz]

On the heels of that day Sept 11th eleven years ago...imagine if it was this characterless ghoul who had been in front of those school children.

Joe-Ker is apt imagery.And while Joe was smiling, Ryan was Cryin'.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Nothing is this funny for 2 hours!

Maybe he was watching the Romney/Odumba debate?

[Trinnity]

I mean really...if that is genuine he belongs in a nut house.With man one heartbeat away from the presidency, it's hard to say which one - he or Obama - is worse.

[bladimz]

Honestly, Biden's antics were approached the grotesque. It's says a lot about us as a society that this could even happen.This thread has been overwhelmingly and not surprisingly, centered on antics, smiling, laughing, "gesticulations", smirks (Ryan). Once all that whining is out of the way, (or if you want to simply read the transcript), it's pretty obvious that Biden was more concise, with more substance in his answers than Ryan; think the ever-vague "tax cuts and loopholes": what cuts? what loopholes?... crickets.

[GrassrootsConservative]

With man one heartbeat away from the presidency, it's hard to say which one - he or Obama - is worse.

He's Odumba's life insurance policy. No one would dare harm Odumba with that lunatic next in line.

[GrassrootsConservative]

This thread has been overwhelmingly and not surprisingly, centered on antics, smiling, laughing, "gesticulations", smirks (Ryan). Once all that whining is out of the way, (or if you want to simply read the transcript), it's pretty obvious that Biden was more concise, with more substance in his answers than Ryan; think the ever-vague "tax cuts and loopholes": what cuts? what loopholes?... crickets.

Except if people wanted a transcript there'd be no need for a televised debate. People like to take into account more than just words, they want to see how a person acts and all that. Biden acted inappropriately and the polls will show that.

[Mister D]

This thread has been overwhelmingly and not surprisingly, centered on antics, smiling, laughing, "gesticulations", smirks (Ryan). Once all that whining is out of the way, (or if you want to simply read the transcript), it's pretty obvious that Biden was more concise, with more substance in his answers than Ryan; think the ever-vague "tax cuts and loopholes": what cuts? what loopholes?... crickets.

Unfortunately, most people watch debates on television. Biden's antics hurt him. Period.

[Mister D]

Granted, it wasn't as effeminate and weird as Gore's sighing but his behavior was nonetheless grostesque and could only impress a drone like Blad.

[coolwalker]

With man one heartbeat away from the presidency, it's hard to say which one - he or Obama - is worse.

No Trin...that's easy. Obama is worse. Biden is just a very old frat boy.

[Trinnity]

This thread has been overwhelmingly and not surprisingly, centered on antics, smiling, laughing, "gesticulations", smirks (Ryan). Once all that whining is out of the way, (or if you want to simply read the transcript), it's pretty obvious that Biden was more concise, with more substance in his answers than Ryan; think the ever-vague "tax cuts and loopholes": what cuts? what loopholes?... crickets.It doesn't even matter is Biden was concise or better.
All people will remember is that he was an ass. I guarantee it.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbrhp3UmTE1rdutw3o1_500.gif
Ass ^

[bladimz]

Unfortunately, most people watch debates on television. Biden's antics hurt him. Period.
Of course. Television is the tool, and people see the images. But the discerning viewer also listen to what's being said. When the conversation here is 90% centered on "antics", it tells me that certain viewers either couldn't or didn't want to get past the imagery to listen to the substantive dialogue, or that the dialogue didn't matter to them; didn't work for them.

Joe looked comfortable and confident. Ryan looked like he couldn't wait to get out of there.

[Mister D]

Of course. Television is the tool, and people see the images. But the discerning viewer also listen to what's being said. When the conversation here is 90% centered on "antics", it tells me that certain viewers either couldn't or didn't want to get past the imagery to listen to the substantive dialogue, or that the dialogue didn't matter to them; didn't work for them.

Joe looked comfortable and confident. Ryan looked like he couldn't wait to get out of there.

Biden put on a grotesque performance. If anyone is to blame for viewers' inability to concentrate on the substance it's Biden. Ryan could have coplimented Biden's choice of tie and Biden would have laughed and made a weird face like it was the craziest thing he has ever heard.

Joe looked anything but genuine.

[bladimz]

It doesn't even matter is Biden was concise or better.
All people will remember is that he was an ass. I guarantee it.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbrhp3UmTE1rdutw3o1_500.gif
Ass ^
I'd rather an intelligent and informed ass, than a trained parrot, when it comes to our national issues and the approach to their resolutions.

[bladimz]

Biden put on a grotesque performance. If anyone is to blame for viewers' inability to concentrate on the substance it's Biden. Ryan could have coplimented Biden's choice of tie and Biden would have laughed and made a weird face like it was the craziest thing he has ever heard.

Joe looked anything but genuine.If blame is to be doled out there, you can point the finger at the split-screen technique. Clear and simple. The more some people insist on making the discussion about what they saw, and not the words they heard (or not), the more it starts looking like a diversion and a quiet admission to a loss.

[coolwalker]

Of course. Television is the tool, and people see the images. But the discerning viewer also listen to what's being said. When the conversation here is 90% centered on "antics", it tells me that certain viewers either couldn't or didn't want to get past the imagery to listen to the substantive dialogue, or that the dialogue didn't matter to them; didn't work for them.

Joe looked comfortable and confident. Ryan looked like he couldn't wait to get out of there.

I tried to listen but with all the interruptions from Biden it became difficult. He appears to have the beginnings of alzheimer's. Gotta' admit however, his caps are very bright!

[Trinnity]

I'd rather an intelligent and informed ass, than a trained parrot, when it comes to our national issues and the approach to their resolutions.Oh I think it's wildly inaccurate to call Ryan a trained parrot. He's well regarded and considered to be pretty sincere. If you don't like him, that's fine. A trained parrot, no.

[texmaster]

I'd rather an intelligent and informed ass, than a trained parrot, when it comes to our national issues and the approach to their resolutions.

LOL Then you wouldn't be Biden. That moron has 10 times the F up statements Quayle made.

[Mister D]

I'd rather an intelligent and informed ass, than a trained parrot, when it comes to our national issues and the approach to their resolutions.

If anyone was trained to perform a task it was Biden. Again, if that's genuine he belongs in a home for the mentally ill but we know it wasn't. He was told to let loose to compensate for BO's dismal performance against Romney. Ryan did well for his firts time out in a national debate.

[bladimz]

LOL Then you wouldn't be Biden. That moron has 10 times the F up statements Quayle made.
...Last night? I think not.

[coolwalker]

Biden has foot-in-mouth disease.

[texmaster]

...Last night? I think not.

Last night included.
top 10 lies are listed here


http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/12/Fact-Check-Top-Ten-Worst-Lies-by-Joe-Biden-in-VP-Debate

[bladimz]

If anyone was trained to perform a task it was Biden. Again, if that's genuine he belongs in a home for the mentally ill but we know it wasn't.You're exactly right; insanity reigns supreme in our capitol.

He was told to let loose to compensate for BO's dismal performance against Romney. Ryan did well for his firts time out in a national debate.Ryan did well for his first time, i agree. Second place is always admirable.

:drumdude:

[Canadianeye]

If blame is to be doled out there, you can point the finger at the split-screen technique. Clear and simple. The more some people insist on making the discussion about what they saw, and not the words they heard (or not), the more it starts looking like a diversion and a quiet admission to a loss.

Coming from someone who in all likelihood, swallowed the 2008 hopey changey rhetoric in great heaping gulps...to talk about substance being the key ingredient is pretty fucking hilarious.

You actually got me LOLing in RL here Blad.

[roadmaster]

Ryan did well and Biden did make some points too. But as an independent Biden lacked and laughed at the serious issues. Also, we are only talking about VP not President.

[coolwalker]

Politics shouldn't mimic SNL...and Biden is no Bill Murray.

[bladimz]

Last night included.


1. Biden said extra security was not requested. Documents, State Department cables and Congressional testimony just this week show more security for the consulate in Benghazi was requested as early as March 2012. All three also showed U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens received death threats from Al Qaeda in July 2012.
2. Biden repeated the lie that there was a protest outside of the consulate prior to the attack, despite the administration knowing there was no protest and that the attack was an act of terror within 24 hours. Biden, as Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder have in the past (remember the CIA prosecutions? remember the prosecutions of Navy SEALs?), threw the intelligence community under the Obama for America bus.
3. Biden accused Ryan of voting against consulate security funding, implying the attack happened as a result. This week, officials closest to the disaster in Libya said funding had nothing to do with the attack in Benghazi on 9/11.


1. Biden said extra security was not requested. Documents, State Department cables and Congressional testimony just this week show more security for the consulate in Benghazi was requested as early as March 2012. All three also showed U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens received death threats from Al Qaeda in July 2012.
2. Biden repeated the lie that there was a protest outside of the consulate prior to the attack, despite the administration knowing there was no protest and that the attack was an act of terror within 24 hours. Biden, as Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder have in the past (remember the CIA prosecutions? remember the prosecutions of Navy SEALs?), threw the intelligence community under the Obama for America bus.
3. Biden accused Ryan of voting against consulate security funding, implying the attack happened as a result. This week, officials closest to the disaster in Libya said funding had nothing to do with the attack in Benghazi on 9/11.
Repeating yourself here in this post... Is that supposed to make it even more reliable?

Your point #3 (both times): It wasn't an accusation. It was a point of fact: Ryan was silent in response, and would not refute it. Interesting that that funding had nothing to do with the lack of security. Kind of
like not having 9 nine players players on the diamond would have nothing to do with losing their game?

Your point #2: what you posted isn't exactly what Biden said:

BIDEN: Well, we weren’t told they wanted more security there. We did not know they wanted more security again. And by the way, at the time we were told exactly — we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew. That was the assessment. And as the intelligence community changed their view, we made it clear they changed their view.I get it. I know it was not a the debate you could have hoped for. And of course the Biden Bashing will continue, but all told, after it's all said and done, Biden was more concise and more substantive than Ryan.

[Cigar]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b137/chasc5/545780_10151230431803566_2036521936_n.jpg

[bladimz]

You actually got me LOLing in RL here Blad.I didn't vote for Obama in 2008, but that's not what this thread's about, is it.

I am glad however that i actually got you LOLing in RL here. The world can be such a sad and unhappy place sometimes, can't it.

[pjohns]

I thought that Rep. Ryan had the better of the debate--by far, in fact. Vice-President Biden appeared dismissive, cavalier, and downright rude, in my opinion.

Still, I am an unapologetic Republican; so my own analysis may be (reasonably enough) called into question.

A snap poll taken by CNN, just following the debate, gave a slight edge to Ryan, 48 percent to 44 percent: CNN Poll: Debate watchers split on who won VP debate – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/?hpt=hp_t1)

On the other hand, a CBS poll showed a rather large margin in favor of Biden, among uncommited voters, 50 percent to 31 percent: Poll: Biden takes debate over Ryan, uncommitted voters say - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say/)

Of course, the two combatants' goals were appreciably different: Biden apparently sought to energize the Democratic base, following a lackluster performance last week by President Obama in the first presidential debate; and in this, he probably succeeded.

Ryan, by contrast, was making an appeal to independent voters. (The Obama-Biden campaign has apparently concluded that this is a base election; and that there are just too few uncommitted voters to matter much, anyway.) In this regard, Ryan did impress me as very competent and level-headed; but the CBS poll, mentioned above, may call into question whether he was successful in his mission.

In the end, vice-presidential debates seldom matter much, unless one participant makes a jaw-dropping gaffe that the media choose to replay, over and over, in order to create a narrative. And neither candidate did this. (Well, not verbally, anyway. But I did think that Biden's continual smirking was a rather serious error in judgment; in fact, it was reminiscent of Al Gore's disrespectful facial expressions in 2000, during a presidential debate with George W. Bush.)

The most memorable line, in recent times, from a vice-presidential debate, was surely the late Lloyd Bentsen's zinger in 1988, directed at Dan Quayle: "Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you are no Jack Kennedy."

Yet the Dukakis-Bentsen ticket lost. And lost rather handily...

[head of joaquin]

Biden ANNIHILATED Ryan, showing every one of his talking points to be nonsense.

He literally shut Ryan's smarmy mouth when he pointed out that the stupid Romney claim that were undermanning the arming in Afghanistan is garbage, since we're replacing Ryan our soldiers with Afghani soldiers. Ryan's answer -- he sat there and looked more stupid than usual.

Joe -- you're the man!

[Canadianeye]

I didn't vote for Obama in 2008, but that's not what this thread's about, is it.

I am glad however that i actually got you LOLing in RL here. The world can be such a sad and unhappy place sometimes, can't it.

Weird...seems like nobody voted for Obama in 2008. :evil: Yes, definitely wishing I was back in Cuba as Canada is turning cold.

[coolwalker]

This is getting repetitive...and boring. It was the VP debate...proved nothing, did nothing other than allow America to see Biden laughing at everything. if he had used that sparingly, it would have probably been effective. As he used it for a straight 2 hours, it became worthless in the long run.

[bladimz]

Last night included.

10. "With all due respect, that’s a bunch of malarkey....not a single thing he said is accurate." At the outset of the debate, Biden tried to paint Ryan as a liar--when Biden, in fact, was the one lying. Ryan had pointed out: 1) that the White House had distanced itself from the Cairo embassy's apologies on 9/11; 2) that Obama had failed to speak up for Iranian protestors in 2009; 3) that the Obama administration called Syria's dictator a "reformer"; 4) and that the Obama administration is imposing defense cuts and projecting weakness. All of that is true.

.........................................

1. "Well, we weren’t told they wanted more security again." Biden lied through his teeth about the fact that the administration--specifically, the State Department--had been told again and again that security on the ground in Libya, and in Benghazi in particular, was inadequate. The day before, in Congressional hearings on the Libya attacks, former regional security director Eric Nordstrom described (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/security-officer-on-state-department-blocking-requests-for-me-the-taliban-is-inside-the-building/) his frustration with having those requests turned down by the government bureaucracy: "For me the Taliban is on the inside of the building.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/12/Fact-Check-Top-Ten-Worst-Lies-by-Joe-Biden-in-VP-DebateThanks for the long and very right-leaning response from the breitbart link. With all due respect, i don't accept this site as an unbiased site. I doubt that the owners of that site would disagree with me.

(i was just reminded of that embarrassing (for Ryan) moment in the debate last night when Biden pointed out that although Ryan fought the stimulus in public, he requested some of that evil money for his use. Ryan... no rebuttal.)

[bladimz]

Weird...seems like nobody voted for Obama in 2008. :evil: Yes, definitely wishing I was back in Cuba as Canada is turning cold.
Yeah. Weird, huh?

[respectfulguest]

While everyone was honing in on Biden's actions, everyone seemed to ignore Ryan's smirking; that snarky grin he did.

Anyone who knows Biden knows that what you see is what you get. There was nothing phony or rehearsed about him or his style. The man knows his politics and isn't afraid to make his point very clearly. We'll see how this all plays out over time, but if one thinks that Biden was out of line in his style, they then must admit that Romney bullied his way thru the first POTUS debate. In that regard, last night's moderator was much more effective and in control than Jim Lehrer, IMVHO.

there is a difference between paying attention to what your opponent is saying (with a smirk if you say so) and downright disrespecting your opponent by groaning and having a chuckle-fest with yourself every time your opponent attempts to speak. VP Biden may have resonated with the base, but believe it somewhat pathetic that seemingly after every public forum in which he opens his mouth it is always defended by the base with "oh that's just Joe being Joe", what in the hell does that mean?.. it's ok everyone our blithering idiot Vice President just made an ass himself again, but that's ok "Joe is just being Joe".

[texmaster]

Repeating yourself here in this post... Is that supposed to make it even more reliable?

It was an editing error Genius and it was fixed seconds later. Is that all you've got?


Your point #3 (both times): It wasn't an accusation. It was a point of fact: Ryan was silent in response, and would not refute it. Interesting that that funding had nothing to do with the lack of security. Kind of
like not having 9 nine players players on the diamond would have nothing to do with losing their game?

So because Ryan didn't respond that means Biden wasn't lying? Of course he was lying. Funding was never listed as a reason for refusal to commit troops.

Pretty pathetic attempt on your part to deflect from his lie.


Your point #2: what you posted isn't exactly what Biden said:
I get it. I know it was not a the debate you could have hoped for. And of course the Biden Bashing will continue, but all told, after it's all said and done, Biden was more concise and more substantive than Ryan.


If you actually took the time to read this thread you would have known I said Biden won. That doesn't mean he didn't lie.

And I updated it with 10 lies he told not 3. Try again.

[bladimz]

there is a difference between paying attention to what your opponent is saying (with a smirk if you say so) and downright disrespecting your opponent by groaning and having a chuckle-fest with yourself every time your opponent attempts to speak. VP Biden may have resonated with the base, but believe it somewhat pathetic that seemingly after every public forum in which he opens his mouth it is always defended by the base with "oh that's just Joe being Joe", what in the hell does that mean?.. it's ok everyone our blithering idiot Vice President just made an ass himself again, but that's ok "Joe is just being Joe".Sorry, but that is "Joe just being Joe". Which is kind of refreshing after trying to figure out for months just who the real Mitt Romney is. Like the Monday Mitt is different from the Wednesday Mitt is different from the Friday Mitt....

Meanwhile, his opponents insist on calling him the "Gaffe Machine". Now there's a very respectful and considerate way to address the VP of the United States.

[IMPress Polly]

I am amused that everyone here is suddenly concerned about rudeness. I struggle to think of anyone here who hasn't engaged in tons of rhetorical bullying that I've been witness to. Amazing how rudeness is only criticized when it is alleged to apply to someone of an opposing political persuasion.

Where was all this opposition to interrupting one's opponent or the debate moderator last week?

[Canadianeye]

Sorry, but that is "Joe just being Joe". Which is kind of refreshing after trying to figure out for months just who the real Mitt Romney is. Like the Monday Mitt is different from the Wednesday Mitt is different from the Friday Mitt....

Meanwhile, his opponents insist on calling him the "Gaffe Machine". Now there's a very respectful and considerate way to address the VP of the United States.

Yeah...especially when they didn't bother to mix in some hatred towards a down syndrome toddler too with the Gaffe Machine barrage. Horrible Repubs...they just can't generate the higher standard level of hatred like the left.

[bladimz]

It was an editing error Genius and it was fixed seconds later. Is that all you've got?Apparently not, but i guess i snuck in there before you could work your magic.


So because Ryan didn't respond that means Biden wasn't lying?Pretty much. He had the chance to refute and didn't.


Pretty pathetic attempt on your part to deflect from his lie.Yeah, well. Sometimes i just can't help myself, being a partisan hack, and all.
:thumbsup20:

[respectfulguest]

Sorry, but that is "Joe just being Joe". Which is kind of refreshing after trying to figure out for months just who the real Mitt Romney is. Like the Monday Mitt is different from the Wednesday Mitt is different from the Friday Mitt....

Meanwhile, his opponents insist on calling him the "Gaffe Machine". Now there's a very respectful and considerate way to address the VP of the United States.

the tried and true "just Joe being Joe" defense can hardly be called "refreshing" when it has been used almost every time he has opened his mouth as Vice President over the last 4 years. I agree the office of the Presidency and those within the Admin should be respected, but their actions and more specifically what they say needs held to account. in a day or two this VP squabbling will be ancient history, but if the base is pulling the "it's just Joe being Joe" defense, VP Biden most likely said or did something counter-productive to the Admin's efforts or it would not need to be said at all.

[coolwalker]

Sorry, but that is "Joe just being Joe".

That is not an excuse for rudeness. it is not at all presidential and he is one step away from that!

[bladimz]

But it shouldn’t be surprising for a guy who says 47 percent of the American people are unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives. My friend recently in a speech in Washington said “30 percent of the American people are takers.Ryan then says that Mitt said something that just came out wrong. That Mitt cares about 100% of americans. Actually, it sounds like it came out 53% wrong.

It's been pretty obvious where Mitt's allegiance lies. He didn't misspeak, he spoke his mind at that meeting of fellow millionaires. He just plain got caught.

[bladimz]

That is not an excuse for rudeness. it is not at all presidential and he is one step away from that!
You know what i consider rude? Rudeness is an invasion of Iran using american blood and treasure we no longer can afford. This is what will happen if Romney is awarded the WH. But being aware of Romney's past friendship with Bibi Netanyahu, there's no reason to think otherwise. I'm not in the habit of posting predictions, but i am breaking tradition here...

Rudeness is, pardon this reminder, the unwarranted invasion of Iraq, killing not only american soldiers but 10's of thousands (if not more) of Iraqi citizens, for absolutely no reason.

Now that's rude.

[head of joaquin]

That is not an excuse for rudeness. it is not at all presidential and he is one step away from that!

BAHAHHAHAHHA!

The rude meme. In defense of Ryan, a guy who has made his political fortunes mimicking tea bagger insults.

Americans LOVE politicians that know how to throw punches, and Biden pummelled the hapless man-child tea partier. Let's hope Obama learned his lesson and stops listening to milquetoast advisers and goes out there and talks about Romney and his 47%. That's how you win elections.

[coolwalker]

You know what i consider rude? Rudeness is an invasion of Iran using american blood and treasure we no longer can afford. This is what will happen if Romney is awarded the WH. But being aware of Romney's past friendship with Bibi Netanyahu, there's no reason to think otherwise. I'm not in the habit of posting predictions, but i am breaking tradition here...

Rudeness is, pardon this reminder, the unwarranted invasion of Iraq, killing not only american soldiers but 10's of thousands (if not more) of Iraqi citizens, for absolutely no reason.

Now that's rude.

No, that's called war. Rudeness using another word is Biden.

[coolwalker]

BAHAHHAHAHHA!

The rude meme. In defense of Ryan, a guy who has made his political fortunes mimicking tea bagger insults.

Americans LOVE politicians that know how to throw punches, and Biden pummelled the hapless man-child tea partier. Let's hope Obama learned his lesson and stops listening to milquetoast advisers and goes out there and talks about Romney and his 47%. That's how you win elections.

One thing is for sure; we will see how loud you roar on the 6th of next month. My bet is you will be whimpering like a kitten.

[WalterSobchak]

Since when did you neo-cons NOT want your President OR Vice President to be assertive?

The last 4 years, you neo-cons criticized and bashed Obama for being to kind to other foreign leaders. You neo-cons called him weak & too nice.

And apparantly last night, I say apparantly, because why the fuck would I watch a VP Debate over the greatness that is Thursday night football and MLB playoffs games, Biden was being assertive to his debate opponent, and now your saying he was too rude & mean. WTF??

[GrumpyDog]

http://dailymilk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/funny-animated-gif-vice-presidential-debate-2012.gif




Rude, sophomoric, overcompensating, inappropriate.

Result, -1

You gotta admit, though, Trinnity, that Joe has exceptionally nice teeth for a man his age. And he has a good dermatologist too. And when he dies, our Democrat party will honor him by having him stuffed by the best taxidermist, and have him on display at the Clinton Library.:greatjob:

[head of joaquin]

No, that's called war. Rudeness using another word is Biden.

I love the smell of conservative whining in the morning.

Meanwhile, Biden gave the smack down to that dysnumeric tea bagger. Now let's hope Obama follows his lead and keeps attacking the ridiculous memes of Romney.

47% anybody?

Did you hear Ryan try to spin that? BWHAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[Chris]

BAHAHHAHAHHA!

The rude meme. In defense of Ryan, a guy who has made his political fortunes mimicking tea bagger insults.

Americans LOVE politicians that know how to throw punches, and Biden pummelled the hapless man-child tea partier. Let's hope Obama learned his lesson and stops listening to milquetoast advisers and goes out there and talks about Romney and his 47%. That's how you win elections.

So you're saying Americans like brutes for whom might is right and dislike rational people for whom right is might. I do agree that that seems to be what many liberals think.

[garyo]

Man child, really? Bwahahahahahahahah!!!!

[Deadwood]

While everyone was honing in on Biden's actions, everyone seemed to ignore Ryan's smirking; that snarky grin he did.

Anyone who knows Biden knows that what you see is what you get. There was nothing phony or rehearsed about him or his style. The man knows his politics and isn't afraid to make his point very clearly. We'll see how this all plays out over time, but if one thinks that Biden was out of line in his style, they then must admit that Romney bullied his way thru the first POTUS debate. In that regard, last night's moderator was much more effective and in control than Jim Lehrer, IMVHO.



That's funny.

What I saw was an old Pol posing.

The reports in Canada's left wing CBC were not complimentary today and several commentators said Biden "acted like he was indignant" but it came across as arrogant".

I guess if you look at things with blue glasses everything looks blue....

[Deadwood]

Of course. Television is the tool, and people see the images. But the discerning viewer also listen to what's being said. When the conversation here is 90% centered on "antics", it tells me that certain viewers either couldn't or didn't want to get past the imagery to listen to the substantive dialogue, or that the dialogue didn't matter to them; didn't work for them.

Joe looked comfortable and confident. Ryan looked like he couldn't wait to get out of there.

What bullshit!


What "discerning viewer?"

Television has set the pace since the Kennedy/Nixon debates....the first ever televised.

That's why they spend millions on what color the fucking tie has to be.


Not only is Biden being slammed to the ground on his antics, but the Republican Party's charge that he outright LIED about not knowing the Bengazi consulate needed additional security is gaining serious traction.

Biden blew it.

Accept it.

[Deadwood]

BAHAHHAHAHHA!

The rude meme. In defense of Ryan, a guy who has made his political fortunes mimicking tea bagger insults.

Americans LOVE politicians that know how to throw punches, and Biden pummelled the hapless man-child tea partier. Let's hope Obama learned his lesson and stops listening to milquetoast advisers and goes out there and talks about Romney and his 47%. That's how you win elections.

Holy Shit!


For a second there I thought Head of Joke um was actually going to post something that did NOT mention "teabagger"


Phew! Glad to see the universe is unfolding as it should.

[Peter1469]

RYAN: "What troubles me more is how this administration has handled all of these issues. Look at what they're doing through Obamacare with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. They're infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals."

THE FACTS: The requirement under the health care law that most employers cover birth control free of charge to female employees does not apply to churches, houses of worship, or other institutions directly involved in propagating a religious faith. It does apply to church-affiliated institutions such as hospitals and charities that serve the general public.

And that is what Ryan was referring too. It is also the subject of a couple of civil law suits.

[Peter1469]

For those who thought that Biden floundered in his response to the Libyan attact and want to blame the Obama administration for the relaxed security at Benghazi, review this from the transcript from last night's debate: (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/10/12/transcript-the-2012-vp-debate/)

Paul Ryan never contested that. I suspect because what Biden said was true...

Except this regime has never passed a budget. It is operating off a continuing resolution....

[Calypso Jones]

o. m. g. I just got to see some actual debate footage. What a rude, obnoxious prick biden is. Is THAT how he thinks one wins a debate. Well WRONG VP Butthead.

[head of joaquin]

So you're saying Americans like brutes for whom might is right and dislike rational people for whom right is might. I do agree that that seems to be what many liberals think.

A teabagger acting like teabaggers are civil.

This is rich!

[head of joaquin]

o. m. g. I just got to see some actual debate footage. What a rude, obnoxious prick biden is. Is THAT how he thinks one wins a debate. Well WRONG VP Butthead.

Translated: he mopped the floor with the man-child.

I love it!

[Chris]

A teabagger acting like teabaggers are civil.

This is rich!

Try and make sense, joaquin.

[Calypso Jones]

Translated: he mopped the floor with the man-child.

I love it!

right. that's exactly what i meant. idiot.

[texmaster]

Thanks for the long and very right-leaning response from the breitbart link. With all due respect, i don't accept this site as an unbiased site. I doubt that the owners of that site would disagree with me.

(i was just reminded of that embarrassing (for Ryan) moment in the debate last night when Biden pointed out that although Ryan fought the stimulus in public, he requested some of that evil money for his use. Ryan... no rebuttal.)

Its pretty pathetic to watch someone dismiss an entire link because they don't like the messenger.

Can't you at least be honest and dispute their findings? Did you really think they just used their own bias without any factual backing for any of their points?

That was simply lazy posting.

[Calypso Jones]

Found this particularly interesting. By Allahpundit at Hotair.com

"Last week Mr. Obama was weirdly passive. Last night Mr. Biden was weirdly aggressive, if that is the right word for someone who grimaces, laughs derisively, interrupts, hectors, rolls his eyes, browbeats and attempts to bully. He meant to dominate, to seem strong and no-nonsense. Sometimes he did—he had his moments. But he was also disrespectful and full of bluster. “Oh, now you’re Jack Kennedy!” he snapped at one point. It was an echo of Lloyd Bentsen to Dan Quayle, in 1988. But Mr. Quayle, who had compared himself to Kennedy, had invited the insult. Mr. Ryan had not. It came from nowhere. Did Mr. Biden look good? No, he looked mean and second-rate. He meant to undercut Mr. Ryan, but he undercut himself. His grimaces and laughter were reminiscent of Al Gore’s sighs in 2000—theatrical, off-putting and in the end self-indicting (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443749204578051542621349694.html)…
National Democrats keep confusing strength with aggression and command with sarcasm. Even the latter didn’t work for Mr. Biden. The things he said had the rhythm and smirk of sarcasm without the cutting substance.
And so the Romney-Ryan ticket emerged ahead. Its momentum was neither stopped nor slowed and likely was pushed forward."

[texmaster]

Apparently not, but i guess i snuck in there before you could work your magic.

LOL So to you "magic" is correcting a mistake. Got it.


Pretty much. He had the chance to refute and didn't.

Do you even hear yourself? So if someone doesn't dispute something that means the other guy must be telling the truth?

Hold on a second.....

Oh well, I heard you once slept with with Barney Frank. I never heard you dispute it so it must be true.

Honestly, you seriously can't do any better than that? Facts matter. Biden lied and I explained how he lied. Be honest enough to debate the point.


Yeah, well. Sometimes i just can't help myself, being a partisan hack, and all.
:thumbsup20:

Did Cigar take over your computer? I don't know anything about your politics but you absolutely did deflect from the lie he told.

And you did it again so a predictable picture about you is definitely forming.

I see you ducked the fact I posted that I already said Biden won the debate. Not a surprise of course.

Different site, 2 other lies Biden told

http://freebeacon.com/biden-claims-he-voted-against-afghanistan-iraq-wars/

Now what.

[Calypso Jones]

did you see that. This debate neither stopped nor slowed the momentum of the R/R campaign. That's got to sting.

[Peter1469]

Found this particularly interesting. By Allahpundit at Hotair.com

"Last week Mr. Obama was weirdly passive. Last night Mr. Biden was weirdly aggressive, if that is the right word for someone who grimaces, laughs derisively, interrupts, hectors, rolls his eyes, browbeats and attempts to bully. He meant to dominate, to seem strong and no-nonsense. Sometimes he did—he had his moments. But he was also disrespectful and full of bluster. “Oh, now you’re Jack Kennedy!” he snapped at one point. It was an echo of Lloyd Bentsen to Dan Quayle, in 1988. But Mr. Quayle, who had compared himself to Kennedy, had invited the insult. Mr. Ryan had not. It came from nowhere. Did Mr. Biden look good? No, he looked mean and second-rate. He meant to undercut Mr. Ryan, but he undercut himself. His grimaces and laughter were reminiscent of Al Gore’s sighs in 2000—theatrical, off-putting and in the end self-indicting (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443749204578051542621349694.html)…
National Democrats keep confusing strength with aggression and command with sarcasm. Even the latter didn’t work for Mr. Biden. The things he said had the rhythm and smirk of sarcasm without the cutting substance.
And so the Romney-Ryan ticket emerged ahead. Its momentum was neither stopped nor slowed and likely was pushed forward."



But he was also disrespectful and full of bluster. “Oh, now you’re Jack Kennedy!”

And an example of a Biden fail: Ryan's point was that JFK's tax cuts increased tax revenues. It sounded like Biden had a bag of talking points and just pulled the wrong one out....

It would have been nice for Ryan to respond: of course not; I just agree with JFK on tax policy. You should try it.

[Calypso Jones]

I heard about that but i haven't gotten to see it yet because of poor and slow reception. Hopefully tomorrow. I thought the same though in the context of the remark. I think they've been watching old re-runs of debates. Unfortuntely for them they fail to see the 'fail' in those debate tactics. Even Lloyd Bentsen came off as a crotchety old sourpuss in spite of the fact that Mr. Quayle set himself up for that insult. This hysterical laughter and rude faces and head shaking in the background not only made biden look stupid but also that moderator. Raddatz.

[head of joaquin]

Joe Biden: Paul Ryan Asked Me For Stimulus Funds

Watch the hypocrite teabagger squirm. Ryan literally had to shut his mouth after being outted as a liar.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/11/joe-biden-paul-ryan-stimulus_n_1959966.html?ref=topbar