Californians Suggest ‘Calexit’ in Wake of Donald Trump Win

[Ethereal]

Californians Suggest ‘Calexit’ in Wake of Donald Trump Win (http://time.com/4564119/california-calexit-donald-trump-victory/)

Sarah Begley @SCBegley 9:08 AM ET

West Coasters took to social media to call for secession

At the end of a bitter election season that left many Americans devastated by Donald Trump’s win, some citizens of the bluest state on Hillary Clinton’s map took to social media to call for secession from the U.S.

The hashtag #Calexit trended on Twitter, recalling Brexit in its appeal to break off from the union. Another popular moniker: #Caleavefornia. Some took a serious approach, like venture capitalist Shervin Pishevar: “If Trump wins,” he wrote, “I am announcing and funding a legitimate campaign for California to become its own nation.”

He and others called California the sixth largest economy in the world and suggested it could be a serious player on the national stage. Others took a more lighthearted approach, with one Twitter user joking, “We’ll just take our avocados and legal weed and go.”

...

I support their right to do this 100%. And I'm not saying that condescendingly. If Californians do not think they can realize their destiny as a member of the US union, then they should pursue their independence. That doesn't mean trade and travel between California and the rest of America would cease. The USA and Canada are separate, independent nations, yet we maintain friendly, mutually beneficial relations. There is no reason why it would be any different if California declared their independence. I even found a website that is promoting a secession referendum in 2018: http://www.yescalifornia.org/

[MRogersNhood]

Do eet! We'll have Americans voting Republican for the next 50 years! :rofl:

http://www.brandinsightblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Nike-Just-Do-It-63.jpg.png

[Common Sense]

If any state could stand on it's own, it would be California. They would have water issues though.

I doubt there would be any serious movement to do so. At least I hope not.

[Bethere]

I support their right to do this 100%. And I'm not saying that condescendingly. If Californians do not think they can realize their destiny as a member of the US union, then they should pursue their independence. That doesn't mean trade and travel between California and the rest of America would cease. The USA and Canada are separate, independent nations, yet we maintain friendly, mutually beneficial relations. There is no reason why it would be any different if California declared their independence. I even found a website that is promoting a secession referendum in 2018: http://www.yescalifornia.org/

White v Texas.

Read it. Learn.

[Ethereal]

If any state could stand on it's own, it would be California. They would have water issues though.

I doubt there would be any serious movement to do so. At least I hope not.

If Lichtenstein can stand as an independent, sovereign nation, then any state in America could do it as well.

[MRogersNhood]

Screw it! Build a wall around CA,too!
Let everybody know you're doing it in case they want to get out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFLPVvES9pg

[Ethereal]

White v Texas.

Read it. Learn.

Nah. That's okay.

[AZ Jim]

It's talk and even if it was a serious discussion the legal issues would prevent it happening.

[Chris]

If any state could stand on it's own, it would be California. They would have water issues though.

I doubt there would be any serious movement to do so. At least I hope not.


Or Texas. What a great experiment that would be!

[Ethereal]

It's talk and even if it was a serious discussion the legal issues would prevent it happening.
All that matters at the end of the day is the will of the people. So if the people will it, it will happen regardless.

[Chris]

I support their right to do this 100%. And I'm not saying that condescendingly. If Californians do not think they can realize their destiny as a member of the US union, then they should pursue their independence. That doesn't mean trade and travel between California and the rest of America would cease. The USA and Canada are separate, independent nations, yet we maintain friendly, mutually beneficial relations. There is no reason why it would be any different if California declared their independence. I even found a website that is promoting a secession referendum in 2018: http://www.yescalifornia.org/


But liberals oppose secession.

I'd support it. Declaration of Independence says it's their right.

[Chris]

White v Texas.

Read it. Learn.



What of it. Secession is extra-legal. Appeals to higher law.

[Bethere]

Nah. That's okay.
I knew you wouldn't, and that's the kind of lack of inquisitiveness that made you the easily manipulated man that you are today.

Texas v White is the case where the supreme court ruled that the confederate states never left the union, and that there is no unilateral means for a state to leave the union.

How do I know all of this stuff? I must seem like a god to you.

[Bo-4]

Dude, unlike Texas, Alaska and other states who threaten secession frequently - this one is tongue in cheek for the most part.

Allow them their mourning period ;-)

[Bethere]

But liberals oppose secession.

I'd support it. Declaration of Independence says it's their right.

Th declaration isn't a legal document. It's a declaration.

[AZ Jim]

All that matters at the end of the day is the will of the people. So if the people will it, it will happen regardless.Not true but enjoy the idea.

[Bethere]

What of it. Secession is extra-legal. Appeals to higher law.

Acquaint yourself with the civil war.

[Chris]

Acquaint yourself with the civil war.

Acquaint yourself with the American Revolution.

[Chris]

Th declaration isn't a legal document. It's a declaration.

Secession is extra-legal. Appeals to higher law.

[FindersKeepers]

I don't think our nation would suffer much if California seceded.

My brother in law, who lives in the Reno, NV area is always saying that when the "big one" (quake) hits CA, he's going to be right there on the NV/CA border with a crow bar -- trying to pry CA loose from the rest of the nation. He jests, of course, but there are good reasons why many Californians have left the state and migrated inward (to our dismay). California will tax anything that moves or doesn't move. Everything is ultra-regulated and small businesses have to fight just to survive. Big labor, hollywierdos running the place.

Let them go.

We will all be the better for it, I think.

[Bethere]

Acquaint yourself with the American Revolution.
You confuse states with colonies.

Please make a note of it.

[Bethere]

Secession is extra-legal. Appeals to higher law.
Then be prepared to die for it as 600000 Americans did in the 1860s.

[Chris]

You confuse states with colonies.

Please make a note of it.


Irrelevant.

[Chris]

Then be prepared to die for it as 600000 Americans did in the 1860s.


So you and other 'mericans are going to engage in mass murder?

[Bethere]

Irrelevant.

Ok. The Constitution wasn't written yet.

[Common Sense]

I don't think our nation would suffer much if California seceded.

My brother in law, who lives in the Reno, NV area is always saying that when the "big one" (quake) hits CA, he's going to be right there on the NV/CA border with a crow bar -- trying to pry CA loose from the rest of the nation. He jests, of course, but there are good reasons why many Californians have left the state and migrated inward (to our dismay). California will tax anything that moves or doesn't move. Everything is ultra-regulated and small businesses have to fight just to survive. Big labor, hollywierdos running the place.

Let them go.

We will all be the better for it, I think.

Regardless of what your brother in law says, California accounts for over 13% of your economy.

It's also the bread basket of the US, producing the majority of your fruits and vegetables. Not to mention it's a centre of innovation in technology and the core of internet based technologies.

Better for it? I don't think so. Losing California would be devastating.

[FindersKeepers]

Acquaint yourself with the civil war.

Acquaint yourself with the 21st Century.

[Bethere]

So you and other 'mericans are going to engage in mass murder?
No, but states that try to leave unilaterally are declaring war.

[FindersKeepers]

Regardless of what your brother in law says, California accounts for over 13% of your economy.

It's also the bread basket of the US, producing the majority of your fruits and vegetables. Not to mention it's a centre of innovation in technology and the core of internet based technologies.

Better for it? I don't think so. Losing California would be devastating.

Then, you take her.

You have my permission.

[texan]

I doubt that they would fold in 10 minutes because states like Texas wouldn't be bailing their butts out every month! LOL California as a stand alone with all their cash shortages........

Now this is funny!

[Cletus]

It would a very good thing for the country if California left the union.

[Bethere]

Acquaint yourself with the 21st Century.
Acquaint yourself with texas v white.

[Common Sense]

Then, you take her.

You have my permission.
Yes, allow your disdain for libruls and California to obscure judgment and rationality. That'll show em.

[FindersKeepers]

No, but states that try to leave unilaterally are declaring war.

Actually, today, the states just file petitions.

[Chris]

Acquaint yourself with texas v white.


Already shot down.

[Bethere]

It would a very good thing for the country if California left the union.
You can check out any time you like, but you may never leave.

[FindersKeepers]

Yes, allow your disdain for libruls and California to obscure judgment and rationality. That'll show em.

What's that I detect?

You don't seem to want the state, either.

No worries. This is what happens every time we try to give her away.

[Bethere]

Already shot down.
Hardly, it is the law of the land.

[Chris]

No, but states that try to leave unilaterally are declaring war.

Uh, no, they're declaring independence. Leave them alone.

[Newpublius]

Regardless of what your brother in law says, California accounts for over 13% of your economy.

It's also the bread basket of the US, producing the majority of your fruits and vegetables. Not to mention it's a centre of innovation in technology and the core of internet based technologies.

Better for it? I don't think so. Losing California would be devastating.

Nonsense. Is the Czech Republic starving because Slovakia left? Of course not. Would the rest of America have facebook pulled away because facebook headquarters is in San Francisco. Absolutely not.

California is a wonderful place and so too is Canada, your home country. Are you and I worse off because Canada and the US are not in political union? Of course not.....and neither would the US if California should decide to leave.

[Common Sense]

I doubt that they would fold in 10 minutes because states like Texas wouldn't be bailing their butts out every month! LOL California as a stand alone with all their cash shortages........

Now this is funny!

There are states that take in more federal taxes than they put in. California is not one of those states. Texas is.

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2014/05/Slide3/966724856.jpg

[nathanbforrest45]

I knew you wouldn't, and that's the kind of lack of inquisitiveness that made you the easily manipulated man that you are today.

Texas v White is the case where the supreme court ruled that the confederate states never left the union, and that there is no unilateral means for a state to leave the union.

How do I know all of this stuff? I must seem like a god to you.



No, just an arrogant SOB

[Chris]

Hardly, it is the law of the land.

Secession is extra-legal, appealing to higher law: " That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "

[Cletus]

Acquaint yourself with texas v white.

It was a bad decision.

[Newpublius]

Uh, no, they're declaring independence. Leave them alone.

Very true but the totality of the circumstances would warrant an equitable dissolution of sorts. Simply leaving unilaterally without any consideration for the natural and incidental consequences of the separation would be to permit an inequity.

[FindersKeepers]

There are states that take in more federal taxes than they put in. California is not one of those states. Texas is.



Well, there you go! They'd be an asset to Canada. We'll keep Texas.

[Newpublius]

Acquaint yourself with texas v white.

A victor's decision which still contemplates secession 'with consent'

[Bo-4]

I don't think our nation would suffer much if California seceded.

My brother in law, who lives in the Reno, NV area is always saying that when the "big one" (quake) hits CA, he's going to be right there on the NV/CA border with a crow bar -- trying to pry CA loose from the rest of the nation. He jests, of course, but there are good reasons why many Californians have left the state and migrated inward (to our dismay). California will tax anything that moves or doesn't move. Everything is ultra-regulated and small businesses have to fight just to survive. Big labor, hollywierdos running the place.

Let them go.

We will all be the better for it, I think.

TEXAS our nation would not suffer much without.

California? Eventually, you'd cry like a baby.

[Cletus]

There are states that take in more federal taxes than they put in. California is not one of those states. Texas is.

Unless you understand why that happens, your chart is meaningless.

[Common Sense]

Nonsense. Is the Czech Republic starving because Slovakia left? Of course not. Would the rest of America have facebook pulled away because facebook headquarters is in San Francisco. Absolutely not.

California is a wonderful place and so too is Canada, your home country. Are you and I worse off because Canada and the US are not in political union? Of course not.....and neither would the US if California should decide to leave.
It certainly would not be business as usual. I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to use their tech an buy their goods, but the prices would be higher. As I just mentioned, California pays more into the US in federal taxes than it takes. That would no longer be the case. That enormous economy would no longer be part of the American economy. It would be naive to think the US wouldn't be hurt financially by California leaving the US.

[nathanbforrest45]

Uh, no, they're declaring independence. Leave them alone.


This was the same attitude that lead to the War of Northern Aggression. The South did not wish to take over the United States, they merely didn't want to be part of it. In the Federalist Papers it was made clear that the several States could leave the union if it so chose. No less a person than John Adams suggested that as early as 1820.

[Cletus]

TEXAS our nation would not suffer much without.

California? Eventually, you'd cry like a baby.

Why do you think that?

[nathanbforrest45]

I wonder if California declared its independence would bethere claim it was because Californians hated straight people?

[Bethere]

Uh, no, they're declaring independence. Leave them alone.
You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with the supreme court and 150 years of jurisprudence.

Don't use bethere as a human shield.

[FindersKeepers]

Texas v White is the case where the supreme court ruled that the confederate states never left the union, and that there is no unilateral means for a state to leave the union.


Nothing lasts forever. Did you watch what happened when Obama put his foot down and said the Crimea could NOT secede from the Ukraine?

The Crimea collectively flipped the bird to the rest of the world, and...

...life goes on.

[Newpublius]

There are states that take in more federal taxes than they put in. California is not one of those states. Texas is.

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2014/05/Slide3/966724856.jpg

Actually TX flops back and forth on these charts, California being very large in population and area tends to gravitate towards averages for most stats

[Bethere]

This was the same attitude that lead to the War of Northern Aggression. The South did not wish to take over the United States, they merely didn't want to be part of it. In the Federalist Papers it was made clear that the several States could leave the union if it so chose. No less a person than John Adams suggested that as early as 1820.

The federalist papers aren't a legal document. Texas v white is the controlling opinion on this matter and has been for around 150 years.

[Common Sense]

Well, there you go! They'd be an asset to Canada. We'll keep Texas.

So you're basing your wishes on what, your distaste for California, not on logic? Great idea.

I'd be for joining California. We already have a great relationship with them and they are financial powerhouse. Maybe if we can get Washington state and Oregon...then we'd be attached at least.

[Common Sense]

Actually TX flops back and forth on these charts, California being very large in population and area tends to gravitate towards averages for most stats
That's not accurate.

[Chris]

TEXAS our nation would not suffer much without.

California? Eventually, you'd cry like a baby.


CA might rank higher in GDP than TX but TX's economic growth rate is much higher. People are migrating from CA to TX.

[Bethere]

Nothing lasts forever. Did you watch what happened when Obama put his foot down and said the Crimea could NOT secede from the Ukraine?

The Crimea collectively flipped the bird to the rest of the world, and...

...life goes on.

Neither the Ukraine nor Russia are the greatest superpower the world has ever known, nor are they controlled by the us constitution.

[Chris]

The federalist papers aren't a legal document. Texas v white is the controlling opinion on this matter and has been for around 150 years.

Secession is extra-legal. Now you can repeat that dumb claim of yours till the cows come home but it's meaningless.

[Newpublius]

That's not accurate.

It is accurate actually. In 2016 CA actually was a 'net taker' state based on receiving $1.18 for every dollar paid and TX at $1.09.......

[Common Sense]

It is accurate actually. In 2016 CA actually was a 'net taker' state based on receiving $1.18 for every dollar paid and TX at $1.09.......
Link?

[MRogersNhood]

Regardless of what your brother in law says, California accounts for over 13% of your economy.

It's also the bread basket of the US, producing the majority of your fruits and vegetables. Not to mention it's a centre of innovation in technology and the core of internet based technologies.

Better for it? I don't think so. Losing California would be devastating.
ONNK! Many other states produce fruits and vegetables as well.

CA could fall off of the US taking all the whackjobs with it and The US wouldn't skip a beat.

Maybe then all those celebrities would leave the country.

[Newpublius]

So you're basing your wishes on what, your distaste for California, not on logic? Great idea.

I'd be for joining California. We already have a great relationship with them and they are financial powerhouse. Maybe if we can get Washington state and Oregon...then we'd be attached at least.

Well with California likely would also go Oregon and Washington. (that would actually make alot of sense).

[Newpublius]

Link?

You can google it up and you'll find various charts over the course of time. The chart you found isn't wrong, its a snapshot of that year. Another thing to consider are retirement destination states (think Carolinas and Florida) where retirees pull in Social Security and Medicare.

[Common Sense]

Well with California likely would also go Oregon and Washington. (that would actually make alot of sense).
Sounds good to me.

While we're at it, why not join that new nation with New York State, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maryland and Virginia?

[Newpublius]

Sounds good to me.

While we're at it, why not join that new nation with New York State, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maryland and Virginia?

I note how you left out NJ and RI. But yes, I'm all for it.

As an aside:

http://ritholtz.com/2012/02/is-your-state-a-net-giver-or-taker-of-federal-taxes/

In 2012 TX a net contributor, CA a net consumer of tax funds.

[Common Sense]

ONNK! Many other states produce fruits and vegetables as well.

CA could fall off of the US taking all the whackjobs with it and The US wouldn't skip a beat.

Maybe then all those celebrities would leave the country.
That's an ill-informed analysis.

[del]

Regardless of what your brother in law says, California accounts for over 13% of your economy.

It's also the bread basket of the US, producing the majority of your fruits and vegetables. Not to mention it's a centre of innovation in technology and the core of internet based technologies.

Better for it? I don't think so. Losing California would be devastating.

they won't be growing as much food because they'll lose most of their water for agriculture

https://mavensnotebook.com/the-notebook-file-cabinet/californias-water-systems/

[Chris]

Sounds good to me.

While we're at it, why not join that new nation with New York State, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maryland and Virginia?


Folks, the US is not red and white but purple.

https://i.snag.gy/yGczEJ.jpg

(2012 map but 2016 didn't change much.)

[Common Sense]

I note how you left out NJ. But yes, I'm all for it.

As an aside:

http://ritholtz.com/2012/02/is-your-state-a-net-giver-or-taker-of-federal-taxes/

In 2012 TX a net contributor, CA a net consumer of tax funds.

LOL...you can keep em.

Fair enough.

[MRogersNhood]

That's an ill-informed analysis.
No,it's not.Grapes don't my world go 'round.

You ever been to CA? You should do some looking @ who produces what in America,post links,then get back with me.

[Bethere]

Secession is extra-legal. Now you can repeat that dumb claim of yours till the cows come home but it's meaningless.

It's the law.

The only was to secede is to take up arms or get our permission. We are a nation of laws, and in this case it's texas v white.

we fought a war over stuff like nullification and secession.

YOU LOST.

[Common Sense]

No,it's not.Grapes don't my world go 'round.

You ever been to CA? You should do some looking @ who produces what in America,post links,then get back with me.

Yes, I've been to California a few times.

Yeah, if you're not into fruits and vegetables, you might not mind.

http://westernfarmpress.com/tree-nuts/what-happens-if-us-loses-california-food-production

[Axiomatic]

Regardless of what your brother in law says, California accounts for over 13% of your economy.

It's also the bread basket of the US, producing the majority of your fruits and vegetables. Not to mention it's a centre of innovation in technology and the core of internet based technologies.

Better for it? I don't think so. Losing California would be devastating.

Common Sense thinks you can't trade with anyone outside your union of states.

[resister]

So you're basing your wishes on what, your distaste for California, not on logic? Great idea.

I'd be for joining California. We already have a great relationship with them and they are financial powerhouse. Maybe if we can get Washington state and Oregon...then we'd be attached at least.
Dream on ,dream until ya dreams come true(or in your case,not true)

[del]

Common Sense thinks you can't trade with anyone outside your union of states.
doesn't matter what he thinks- can't grow without water, and cali ain't gonna have no water if they secede.

[Axiomatic]

Bethre thinks "blood in, blood out" is a legal provision of the union.

[Axiomatic]

doesn't matter what he thinks- can't grow without water, and cali ain't gonna have no water if they secede.
Has that already been negotiate, or is it just your personal preference?

[Bethere]

Bethre thinks "blood in, blood out" is a legal provision of the union.
It doesn't matter what I think. You guys aren't arguing with me. You are arguing with the supreme court and 150 years of precedent and jurisprudence.

[MRogersNhood]

Yes, I've been to California a few times.

Yeah, if you're not into fruits and vegetables, you might not mind.

http://westernfarmpress.com/tree-nuts/what-happens-if-us-loses-california-food-production
Ain't not a damn thing grown in CA that can't be grown in the south where there's plenty of water.

[Axiomatic]

It doesn't matter what I think. You guys aren't arguing with me. You are arguing with the supreme court and 150 years of precedent and jurisprudence.
No we're not.

[del]

Has that already been negotiate, or is it just your personal preference?

considering water rights in the whole west/southwest is a highly contentious issue and there's not enough to go around now, i don't think you need to be nostradamus to foresee that they'll lose whatever they divert from the colorado river and the hetch hetchy before the ink dries on their declaration of secession.

i personally don't give as shit.

[del]

Ain't not a damn thing grown in CA that can't be grown in the south where there's plenty of water.

Updated Nov. 4, 2016 1:36 p.m. ET 7 COMMENTS (http://www.wsj.com/articles/severe-drought-strikes-the-south-1478268000#renderComments)
DAWSON, Ala.—Severe drought is hitting parts of the South, even as North Carolina and Louisiana experienced historic flooding (http://www.wsj.com/articles/damage-grows-from-louisiana-flood-1471803140) this year.
Although the drought has spared some major agricultural sectors, including the area’s large poultry industry, it has left livestock and hay producers scrambling.
Ranchers raising more than 2.35 million cattle and calves in Alabama and Georgia, out of about 92 milllion nationwide, expect major losses. Hay production, valued in 2015 at about $369 million in those two states, could drop significantly.
The drought (http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/)—covering parts of Tennessee, Mississippi and the Carolinas in addition to Georgia and Alabama—has scorched pasture land, hurting cattle herds and farms across the region.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/severe-drought-strikes-the-south-1478268000

dummy up

[Peter1469]

If any state could stand on it's own, it would be California. They would have water issues though.

I doubt there would be any serious movement to do so. At least I hope not.

Aren't they broke? And they have public pensions that they won't be able to service.

[del]

Aren't they broke? And they have public pensions that they won't be able to service.

they're broke like the us is broke, which is to say not at all.

[Bethere]

No we're not.

If you stay at a Holiday Inn express tonight maybe you'll be able to do what no other lawyer in the last 150 years has done: convince the supreme court to overturn texas v white.

Hey! This has ceased to be productive. I'm out of here.

[Mini Me]

Regardless of what your brother in law says, California accounts for over 13% of your economy.

It's also the bread basket of the US, producing the majority of your fruits and vegetables. Not to mention it's a centre of innovation in technology and the core of internet based technologies.

Better for it? I don't think so. Losing California would be devastating.
Right! The US would be dependent on sweat shops in the deep South and food stamps!

[Subdermal]

they're broke like the us is broke, which is to say not at all.

The difference is that California would no longer have the benefit of the FED Treasury printing inflated US dollars to pay for their irresponsible spending habits.

[Newpublius]

The difference is that California would no longer have the benefit of the FED Treasury printing inflated US dollars to pay for their irresponsible spending habits.

Well they'd have one in Sacramento, no?

[Green Arrow]

I would support it. I've never opposed a single secession movement anywhere else in the world, I certainly won't do it here.

Besides, if any U.S. state could succeed as an independent nation, it would be California. Common Sense already mentioned their only real problem - water.

[FindersKeepers]

Neither the Ukraine nor Russia are the greatest superpower the world has ever known, nor are they controlled by the us constitution.

Things change dude. Back when Lincoln launched a war over the South seceding, people thought blacks were property. We don't think like that anymore. Nor do we start civil wars and slaughter tens of thousands over border changes.

This nation will last forever. History should tell you that. No empire lasts forever.

A decision to secede, or not, will be decided without shooting at one another.

[MRogersNhood]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/severe-drought-strikes-the-south-1478268000

dummy up
What if you're not in any of those states and have plenty of water?

[Common Sense]

Sorry, couldn't help myself...

http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n350/blackstorme/map-jesusland.jpg

[Peter1469]

they're broke like the us is broke, which is to say not at all.

As a state Cali can't print money.

[exploited]

Let them separate. I wouldn't advise it, but if they hold a referendum, and that is the result, it should go forward.

[Ethereal]

I knew you wouldn't, and that's the kind of lack of inquisitiveness that made you the easily manipulated man that you are today.

Texas v White is the case where the supreme court ruled that the confederate states never left the union, and that there is no unilateral means for a state to leave the union.

How do I know all of this stuff? I must seem like a god to you.
I'm not too worried about what the supreme court says or doesn't say.

[Ethereal]

Th declaration isn't a legal document. It's a declaration.
I suppose it never occurred to you that legality is not the sole or overriding determinant of an act's legitimacy.

[Ethereal]

Not true but enjoy the idea.
The idea is called "democracy".

[Ethereal]

Then be prepared to die for it as 600000 Americans did in the 1860s.
So you are willing to kill in order to deny people their right to political independence. And you're not the least bit embarrassed to admit it.

[Ethereal]

Regardless of what your brother in law says, California accounts for over 13% of your economy.

It's also the bread basket of the US, producing the majority of your fruits and vegetables. Not to mention it's a centre of innovation in technology and the core of internet based technologies.

Better for it? I don't think so. Losing California would be devastating.
It's not like they'd be going to a different dimension. They'd still be a huge trading partner with the rest of America just like Canada is.

[Ethereal]

No, but states that try to leave unilaterally are declaring war.

How is declaring independence a declaration of war?

[Ethereal]

Hardly, it is the law of the land.
If the "law of the land" is inconsistent with the principle of political independence and democracy, then it has no legitimacy and is nothing more than an instrument of tyranny.

[Ethereal]

Uh, no, they're declaring independence. Leave them alone.
Some people just want to rule over others and tell them how to live. It used to be we called these people "tyrants" but now we just call them "Democrats".

[Ethereal]

It certainly would not be business as usual. I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to use their tech an buy their goods, but the prices would be higher. As I just mentioned, California pays more into the US in federal taxes than it takes. That would no longer be the case. That enormous economy would no longer be part of the American economy. It would be naive to think the US wouldn't be hurt financially by California leaving the US.

Of course it would be "part" of the "American economy" in much the same way all our trading partners are "part" of the same. It's not like Canada's status as a separate, independent nation stops us from having a mutually beneficial and peaceable relationship with them. You ought to know that better than anyone.

[Ethereal]

You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with the supreme court and 150 years of jurisprudence.

Don't use bethere as a human shield.

We're fine with that. The supreme court are not gods. Arguing with them is entirely reasonable and permissible.

[Don]

Or Texas. What a great experiment that would be!

Mexico probably wouldn't like that one bit. Unfettered Texans might make things miserable for them. :laugh:

[Ethereal]

Sounds good to me.

While we're at it, why not join that new nation with New York State, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maryland and Virginia?

You wouldn't want Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont. Their guns are far too lax for you. And hands off Virginia. Thomas Jefferson is from there... :wink:

[Don]

Some people just want to rule over others and tell them how to live. It used to be we called these people "tyrants" but now we just call them "Democrats".

And RINO's

[Ethereal]

It's the law.

And?

[Ethereal]

doesn't matter what he thinks- can't grow without water, and cali ain't gonna have no water if they secede.
Independent countries negotiate water rights all the time. California's neighbors and trading partners would benefit from an arrangement that kept California's agricultural market viable.

[Ethereal]

Bethre thinks "blood in, blood out" is a legal provision of the union.
Yes, he believes it's a collectivist death pact that justifies itself. His argument is fundamentally no different than the arguments used by monarchists and Tories to justify British rule over the colonies.

[Ethereal]

It doesn't matter what I think. You guys aren't arguing with me. You are arguing with the supreme court and 150 years of precedent and jurisprudence.

And the founding fathers were arguing with the British parliament, monarchy, and centuries of tradition. What's your point?

[Bo-4]

Why do you think that?

REALLY?

CA contributes more in taxes than they TAKE from the Feds
CA is 1 or 2 in produce and livestock production
CA is #ONE in technology (Apple/Microsoft/SiliconValley/etc)

Hey, they can keep that shit on the down-low and Californians will just keep it.

Texas? Meh

[Bo-4]

CA might rank higher in GDP than TX but TX's economic growth rate is much higher. People are migrating from CA to TX.

Yeah, and people are ALSO migrating from TX to the West.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2015/10/06/the-cities-americans-are-thronging-to-and-fleeing/#d68b945139a2

C'mon Chris, you know better than this post. ;-)

[GrassrootsConservative]

We should give them back to Mexico and just curve the wall up along the west borders of Arizona and Nevada. If the Liberal idiots in Washington and Oregon want out too we can just include Idaho in that as well and make a direct border from Mexico all the way to Canada and let the Canucks deal with illegal immigration and all the drug trade, murder, rape, and tax theft and fraud that comes with it.

[Green Arrow]

We should give them back to Mexico and just curve the wall up along the west borders of Arizona and Nevada. If the Liberal idiots in Washington and Oregon want out too we can just include Idaho in that as well and make a direct border from Mexico all the way to Canada and let the Canucks deal with illegal immigration and all the drug trade, murder, rape, and tax theft and fraud that comes with it.

There won't be a wall.

[GrassrootsConservative]

There won't be a wall.
Incorrect. There already is a wall, it just doesn't function very well.
http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/lg/public/2014/09/19/us-mexico-border.jpg

[Green Arrow]

Incorrect. There already is a wall, it just doesn't function very well.
http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/lg/public/2014/09/19/us-mexico-border.jpg

I mean a new one. The beautiful one that everyone will love, that President Trump will build and make Mexico pay for.

That pitiful little fence will be about all you see on the border.

[GrassrootsConservative]

I mean a new one. The beautiful one that everyone will love, that President Trump will build and make Mexico pay for.

That pitiful little fence will be about all you see on the border.

If you're right then he is a bad president and a liar.

But I am actually willing to see what pans out, unlike some.

[Green Arrow]

If you're right then he is a bad president and a liar.

But I am actually willing to see what pans out, unlike some.
I've seen enough already from what's actually written in the book to determine that it's not one I want to keep reading.

[HoneyBadger]

If any state could stand on it's own, it would be California. They would have water issues though.



They'd have a tough time making a go of it without Lake Mead. They don't get to take that with them.

[GrassrootsConservative]

I've seen enough already from what's actually written in the book to determine that it's not one I want to keep reading.
Well try not to spoil it for the rest of us that want to read the book, too. I want to know what happens for myself.

[Dr. Who]

doesn't matter what he thinks- can't grow without water, and cali ain't gonna have no water if they secede.

Desalination plants.

[Ethereal]

They'd have a tough time making a go of it without Lake Mead. They don't get to take that with them.
America would have a tough time without California's agricultural products, so it would be in the interest of their neighbor's to negotiate an equitable distribution of water resources.

[Green Arrow]

Well try not to spoil it for the rest of us that want to read the book, too. I want to know what happens for myself.

You'd know already if you had been paying attention and did your homework.

[Bethere]

If the "law of the land" is inconsistent with the principle of political independence and democracy, then it has no legitimacy and is nothing more than an instrument of tyranny.
Making 10 posts in a row as you did reveals your desperation.

Desperation is a poor substitute for wisdom.

[Ethereal]

Making 10 posts in a row as you did reveals your desperation.

Desperation is a poor substitute for wisdom.

Are you trying to be an obnoxious little twat or does it just come naturally?

[Newpublius]

CA might rank higher in GDP than TX but TX's economic growth rate is much higher. People are migrating from CA to TX.

Remember one thing about nominal GDP. Imagine building a 3,000 square foot colonial in Pearland, TX with a 3 car garage and a pool. Wonderful, somebody has a home and your GDP is now $250k higher. A builder in California does the same thing in a suburb equidistant to LA that Pearland is to Houston and that home is now $1mn and while your GDP looks higher, fact is it really ia the same. It of course needs to be adjusted for cost of living.

[del]

Independent countries negotiate water rights all the time. California's neighbors and trading partners would benefit from an arrangement that kept California's agricultural market viable.
maybe, maybe not

i can tell you that a quick examination of water rights in the west doesn't bode well for california as an independent entity negotiating for same, especially in a drought.

[del]

Desalination plants.

they'll need to build a lot of power plants to make that work

where will the energy come from?

[Dr. Who]

they'll need to build a lot of power plants to make that work

where will the energy come from?
Cali gets an awful lot of sun. Perhaps solar farms. The Mojave, Colorado and Great Basin deserts comprise a great deal of arid sunny real estate. The cost of solar has come down and energy storage is now possible. With enough desert solar farms, Calfornia could even cut itself off the grid.

[del]

Cali gets an awful lot of sun. Perhaps solar farms. The Mojave, Colorado and Great Basin deserts comprise a great deal of arid sunny real estate. The cost of solar has come down and energy storage is now possible. With enough desert solar farms, Calfornia could even cut itself off the grid.

california currently can draw 4.4mm acre-feet from the colorado river. the cost to desalinize that much water is close to $100bb, not counting the cost building and providing power to the desalinization plants. it could be done, but not particularly quickly, and what do they do in the interim?

[Dr. Who]

california currently can draw 4.4mm acre-feet from the colorado river. the cost to desalinize that much water is close to $100bb, not counting the cost building and providing power to the desalinization plants. it could be done, but not particularly quickly, and what do they do in the interim?

Stop watering their lawns and filling their swimming pools.
/Edit - also stop growing almond trees.

[del]

Stop watering their lawns and filling their swimming pools.
/Edit - also stop growing almond trees.

i don't disagree but i also don't see it happening, either

i know people in palm springs who complain that it's gotten more humid because of all the water thrown at golf courses, but that doesn't stop them

[Axiomatic]

california currently can draw 4.4mm acre-feet from the colorado river. the cost to desalinize that much water is close to $100bb, not counting the cost building and providing power to the desalinization plants. it could be done, but not particularly quickly, and what do they do in the interim?
Why should an alternate political configuration change what they pay now?

[decedent]

If you're right then he is a bad president and a liar.

But I am actually willing to see what pans out, unlike some.

So far, it doesn't look good. Trump stopped mentioning the wall about a while ago. He seems to be backpedaling on one of his biggest promises.

[del]

Why should an alternate political configuration change what they pay now?
because when they leave the union, they will no longer be subject to, and part of, the colorado compact, and imo, the other western states will tell them to fuck off.

they'll have to find they're own water source, and that's what water costs to desalinize.

i realize this may bruise your libertarian feelings, but that's the way the real world works.

[Axiomatic]

because when they leave the union, they will no longer be subject to, and part of, the colorado compact, and imo, the other western states will tell them to $#@! off.
they'll have to find they're own water source, and that's what water costs to desalinize.
You don't know that the other states would tell them to fuck off. It's your opinion. For all you know, the other states don't give a fuck if they stay or go. For all you know, a deal could be struck that would benefit the other states in a way that they couldn't dream of with California in the union, and still be much cheaper for cali than desalination.

The point is: These logistical barriers you keep imagining are not real.

[ripmeister]

I don't think our nation would suffer much if California seceded.

My brother in law, who lives in the Reno, NV area is always saying that when the "big one" (quake) hits CA, he's going to be right there on the NV/CA border with a crow bar -- trying to pry CA loose from the rest of the nation. He jests, of course, but there are good reasons why many Californians have left the state and migrated inward (to our dismay). California will tax anything that moves or doesn't move. Everything is ultra-regulated and small businesses have to fight just to survive. Big labor, hollywierdos running the place.

Let them go.

We will all be the better for it, I think.

you might want to check Cals contribution to the public coffers. If they were to leave all those red states that take more than they give would be in a world of hurt.

[Dr. Who]

i don't disagree but i also don't see it happening, either

i know people in palm springs who complain that it's gotten more humid because of all the water thrown at golf courses, but that doesn't stop them
Cali wastes a lot of water. If the price goes up, they will waste less.

[HoneyBadger]

Independent countries negotiate water rights all the time. California's neighbors and trading partners would benefit from an arrangement that kept California's agricultural market viable.

The water situation in the West/Southwest is pretty ugly as it is. I can damned near guarantee Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah and Nevada aren't going to agree to provide nearly the amount of water California receives today. They're not going to deprive themselves so people in the desert can plant lawns and overpopulate.

[Newpublius]

Cali wastes a lot of water. If the price goes up, they will waste less.

Remember that truism!

[Cthulhu]

I knew you wouldn't, and that's the kind of lack of inquisitiveness that made you the easily manipulated man that you are today.

Texas v White is the case where the supreme court ruled that the confederate states never left the union, and that there is no unilateral means for a state to leave the union.

How do I know all of this stuff? I must seem like a god to you.
You don't recognize natural rights, we get it.

Others do, and care more for them than we do for man made codes.

Fear profits a man nothing.

[Ethereal]

maybe, maybe not

i can tell you that a quick examination of water rights in the west doesn't bode well for california as an independent entity negotiating for same, especially in a drought.

It would be one thing if they had nothing to offer in exchange for favorable water rights, but...

[Ethereal]

because when they leave the union, they will no longer be subject to, and part of, the colorado compact, and imo, the other western states will tell them to $#@! off.

they'll have to find they're own water source, and that's what water costs to desalinize.

i realize this may bruise your libertarian feelings, but that's the way the real world works.
Couldn't just give your opinion. Had to toss an insult in there, as if anyone who disagreed with you was not living in the "real world".

[Chris]

It would be one thing if they had nothing to offer in exchange for favorable water rights, but...


California's Top Export Goods
California has long been one of the nation's leading states for exports. In 2003, California's exports totaled $94 billion. More than one-fourth of all manufacturing workers in California depend on exports for their jobs. California now ranks second only to Texas ($98.8 billion) among the states in its amount of exports.

California is the nation's leader in agricultural exports. In 2003, more than $7.20 billion in both food and agricultural goods were exported worldwide. Although California exports many agricultural goods, its leading exports were manufactured items in 2003. The major exports were computers and electronic products, machinery, transportation equipment, and chemicals. California exported to 224 countries in 2003. California's largest export market was Mexico ($14.9 billion), followed by Japan ($11.8 billion) and Canada ($11.2 billion).


@ http://glencoe.com/sec/socialstudies/ca/ca_economy.html


Secession doesn't mean isolation (or declaration of war).

[Ethereal]

The water situation in the West/Southwest is pretty ugly as it is. I can damned near guarantee Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah and Nevada aren't going to agree to provide nearly the amount of water California receives today. They're not going to deprive themselves so people in the desert can plant lawns and overpopulate.
So maybe the people in California would just have to be more prudent in how they use their water or maybe they would just pay more money in order to maintain the same level of access. They have a huge economy and much to offer in exchange for favorable water rights.

[resister]

I support their right to do this 100%. And I'm not saying that condescendingly. If Californians do not think they can realize their destiny as a member of the US union, then they should pursue their independence. That doesn't mean trade and travel between California and the rest of America would cease. The USA and Canada are separate, independent nations, yet we maintain friendly, mutually beneficial relations. There is no reason why it would be any different if California declared their independence. I even found a website that is promoting a secession referendum in 2018: http://www.yescalifornia.org/
the republic of kalifornistan

[Cthulhu]

Regardless of what your brother in law says, California accounts for over 13% of your economy.

It's also the bread basket of the US, producing the majority of your fruits and vegetables. Not to mention it's a centre of innovation in technology and the core of internet based technologies.

Better for it? I don't think so. Losing California would be devastating.
Until we turn off their water. Cease protection and other such services.

Call me crazy but I think we could strike an extremely favorable trade agreement.

They'd likely be begging to be let back in.

Fear profits a man nothing.

[Ethereal]

Until we turn off their water. Cease protection and other such services.

Call me crazy but I think we could strike an extremely favorable trade agreement.

They'd likely be begging to be let back in.

Fear profits a man nothing.

Except California has plenty to offer in exchange for favorable water rights. Do you think America would be better off if they destroyed California's agricultural markets by denying them access to water?

[nathanbforrest45]

So California grows a substantial portion of our fruits and vegetables. Suppose they withdrew from the Union. What would they do with that produce they are currently producing? Dump it in the ocean? They would continue to sell it where they have always sold it, to the rest of the United States. Furthermore, there is a lot of arable land in the United States that could take up any loss because California turned its lettuce production over to the growing of pot and setting up migrant worker camps. We may have to actually go back to the way it was when I was a teen, and only have fresh produce when it was in season.

No, if California wants to riot and stamp their feet because the election didn't go their way and leave the Union, it will be no sustainable loss to the rest of the country.

[Chris]

You know this CA secession better happen before ocean-front property goes up for sale in Nevada.

[exotix]

Today

California Dreamin'? Many in Golden State Want to Secede From Trump's U.S.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-dreamin-many-golden-state-want-secede-trump-s-u-n681796

California, here we go ...

That's the philosophy of a growing secessionist movement in the nation's biggest state, and it got a kick start after Tuesday's presidential election.

Yes California (http://www.yescalifornia.org/), which is pushing for California to secede and become a separate country, staged a daylong "informational session" Wednesday outside the State Capitol in Sacramento.




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw3MmTdUQAAvmkR.jpg

[exotix]

Today

Silicon Valley Braces for Uncertainty After Donald Trump’s VictoryPresident-elect’s campaign lacked specific plan for how he would tackle technology policy

http://www.wsj.com/articles/silicon-valley-braces-for-uncertainty-after-donald-trumps-victory-1478716165

[resister]

Good riddance,Maybe then all those celebrities that vowed to leave can go there.You should go with them Canada would appreciate it.

[Cigar]

Today

Silicon Valley Braces for Uncertainty After Donald Trump’s Victory

President-elect’s campaign lacked specific plan for how he would tackle technology policy



http://www.wsj.com/articles/silicon-valley-braces-for-uncertainty-after-donald-trumps-victory-1478716165

Plan? :huh:

This guy uses Twitter for communicating :rollseyes:

[Tahuyaman]

Again, look at the red/blue map of California. You can see who wants to leave.

[Cigar]

Good riddance,Maybe then all those celebrities that vowed to leave can go there.You should go with them Canada would appreciate it.

Focus Numb Nuts ... We're talking about Silicon Valley :laugh:

Before they became Celebrities ... they were geniuses in their field ... without Daddies Money :grin:

[Captain Obvious]

Let Mexico have it back, as long as they keep their debt.

All fags and liberal asshats there anyway.

[Ethereal]

Duplicate thread.

Please merge: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/72930-Californians-Suggest-%E2%80%98Calexit%E2%80%99-in-Wake-of-Donald-Trump-Win

[Chris]

Threads merged.

[Cthulhu]

Except California has plenty to offer in exchange for favorable water rights. Do you think America would be better off if they destroyed California's agricultural markets by denying them access to water?
No, but this insane idea that fruits can't be grown elsewhere is rubbish. Also, these water contacts harm other states by creating water shortages elsewhere.

I'm not about needlessly making people suffer, but this idea that people must have been lawns in a natural desert needs to stop immediately. Just like the "need for a swimming pool" in many back yards in many urban areas. They have the water but need to use it intelligently before asking for more.

Because most of what is grown there that isn't on a tree can be grown hydroponically.

Fear profits a man nothing.

[Dr. Who]

No, but this insane idea that fruits can't be grown elsewhere is rubbish. Also, these water contacts harm other states by creating water shortages elsewhere.

I'm not about needlessly making people suffer, but this idea that people must have been lawns in a natural desert needs to stop immediately. Just like the "need for a swimming pool" in many back yards in many urban areas. They have the water but need to use it intelligently before asking for more.

Because most of what is grown there that isn't on a tree can be grown hydroponically.

Fear profits a man nothing.
I agree, the notion of swimming pools, grass lawns and golf courses in a semi-desert climate is not logical. It's an odd sense of entitlement where you want to have that warm dry climate with no trade-off. However, the worst drain on Cali water is actually those wretched almond farms that are sucking the aquifers dry.

[rembrant]

If any state could stand on it's own, it would be California. They would have water issues though.

I don't think ANY State would be permitted to exit. Frankly.. I'd rather see Texas exit.. then we shed a LOT of problems. Mississippi can go, but they could not make it as a nation.

[Newpublius]

I agree, the notion of swimming pools, grass lawns and golf courses in a semi-desert climate is not logical. It's an odd sense of entitlement where you want to have that warm dry climate with no trade-off. However, the worst drain on Cali water is actually those wretched almond farms that are sucking the aquifers dry.

Full disclosire, Dr. Who is a pistachio farmer :-)

[wolfstrike]

lotta people in California talking about walking away from the union.(after for years saying no one else can leave)
Liberal Socialists from all around the country converged onto the beach-front property of California.
They loaded the state with Mexicans until the point California is worth 55 electoral votes.
No one in Washington DC ever opposed the immigration, because the leaders of California and DC are bed buddies.
Because of this, the Democrats only need about 7 states to win a presidential election.


You really think the puppet masters will let the peasants walk away from this deal the union?

Stoopit!

[Ethereal]

Duplicate thread.

Please merge: http://thepoliticalforums.com/threads/72930-Californians-Suggest-%E2%80%98Calexit%E2%80%99-in-Wake-of-Donald-Trump-Win

[Scerab]

California will never leave the union. We are proud of our American identity and history In The union.
The fact that California today has a majority Latino population is because of its tolerance and crack down on discrimination, which is unconstitutional anyways.
The US constitution protects every citizens right to pursue happiness.

[PolWatch]

Duplicate Threads Merged

[Don]

What would happen if they did assuming the rest of the country allowed it?

I think it would pretty much guarantee the democrats didn't win the presidency for a long long time.

If they seceded I think we would have to remove all federal property out of their newly formed nation including all the military bases. They would have to create their own defense network. In the best interests of our own country we would probably give the the benefit of our nuclear "umbrella" like we do Canada. :laugh: We would have to work out some kind of border control to keep them from coming to the USA uninvited. We would have to move a lot of shipping ports to Oregon and Washington so we wouldn't have to transport across their country. We could also offer an amnesty period of 24 months to allow former U.S. citizens the right to immigrate to other states in the U.S. no questions asked other than proof they were U.S. citizens. Then we could leave them to their own devises and if they wanted to elect their president by popular vote they could or they could just appoint a king or queen or potentate or sultan or rajah or what ever they want.

[Captain Obvious]

Take NY with them

[Scerab]

What would happen if they did assuming the rest of the country allowed it?

I think it would pretty much guarantee the democrats didn't win the presidency for a long long time.

If they seceded I think we would have to remove all federal property out of their newly formed nation including all the military bases. They would have to create their own defense network. In the best interests of our own country we would probably give the the benefit of our nuclear "umbrella" like we do Canada. :laugh: We would have to work out some kind of border control to keep them from coming to the USA uninvited. We would have to move a lot of shipping ports to Oregon and Washington so we wouldn't have to transport across their country. We could also offer an amnesty period of 24 months to allow former U.S. citizens the right to immigrate to other states in the U.S. no questions asked other than proof they were U.S. citizens. Then we could leave them to their own devises and if they wanted to elect their president by popular vote they could or they could just appoint a king or queen or potentate or sultan or rajah or what ever they want.

Oh my, where to start on this one...
as a Californian, I am a little offended you misspelled the name of our state. But anyway let's move on...
i never heard of any serious talk about leaving the union. But if any of the 50 states has a chance of surviving outside the union, its California. With its huge land mass and over 39 million population, its economy is one of the best among all 50 states and is better then that of many sovereign nations.
No one can predict what will happen if California decides to leave the union. Will there be a mass migration to or from the golden state?
How will California achieve this independence? Through a civil war or politics? The latter might take decades if not centuries.
The hot issue in California is not leaving the union but rather dividing the state into 6 smaller states. This is a plan devised by the dreaded billionaires in Silicon Valley so they can avoid paying more taxes. I am confident that such a measure will never pass...
Let's not forget what happened during the Great Depression...
many people traveled across the country just to get to the promised land of California. In fact, California had its interstate borders closed to other Americans, because it was the only place in the whole country that had a semi thriving economy during the 30s.

[Don]

Oh my, where to start on this one...
as a Californian, I am a little offended you misspelled the name of our state. But anyway let's move on...
i never heard of any serious talk about leaving the union. But if any of the 50 states has a chance of surviving outside the union, its California. With its huge land mass and over 39 million population, its economy is one of the best among all 50 states and is better then that of many sovereign nations.
No one can predict what will happen if California decides to leave the union. Will there be a mass migration to or from the golden state?
How will California achieve this independence? Through a civil war or politics? The latter might take decades if not centuries.
The hot issue in California is not leaving the union but rather dividing the state into 6 smaller states. This is a plan devised by the dreaded billionaires in Silicon Valley so they can avoid paying more taxes. I am confident that such a measure will never pass...
Let's not forget what happened during the Great Depression...
many people traveled across the country just to get to the promised land of California. In fact, California had its interstate borders closed to other Americans, because it was the only place in the whole country that had a semi thriving economy during the 30s.

Sorry about the misspelling, it was a typo. Maybe a mod could fix it?

I don't think California will secede and even if they wanted to I doubt the rest of the country would go along with it. I just posted this because some people who are dissatisfied with the election of Trump have said they want to secede. I know its just ranting and raving. I do think that sometime in the future though their might have to be some sort of realignment or adding of states because some portions of existing states are not getting their share of representation within the state. I'm from Colorado and the west slope there is under represented. A lot of their tax money is spent on the front range. It does not benefit them.

[Scerab]

Sorry about the misspelling, it was a typo. Maybe a mod could fix it?

I don't think California will secede and even if they wanted to I doubt the rest of the country would go along with it. I just posted this because some people who are dissatisfied with the election of Trump have said they want to secede. I know its just ranting and raving. I do think that sometime in the future though their might have to be some sort of realignment or adding of states because some portions of existing states are not getting their share of representation within the state. I'm from Colorado and the west slope there is under represented. A lot of their tax money is spent on the front range. It does not benefit them.
The electoral college, what gave trump the White House, ensures that candidates will not only focus on heavily populated states but all states. This is for the executive branch. Now as for the example you gave about a rural area being under represented, I blame the people living there. They have a vote, and they vote for their districts and congress persons and senators. They also vote for mayor and other things.
They should do a better job of choosing their officials.
To the morons in Hollywood who love to mingle with the LGBT community and spend endless hours contemplating where a guy who thinks he is a girl should take a dump, if they want to leave, by all means leave! They should go try acting in Mexico and see how much they were privileged here.
you don't get everything you want, even if your rich and famous.

[Cletus]

They wouldn't be missed. California has been responsible for most6 of the really stupid and counterproductive laws and fads that have been inflicted upon the rest of the country for at least the last half century.

We would be better off without them.

[Scerab]

They wouldn't be missed. California has been responsible for most6 of the really stupid and counterproductive laws and fads that have been inflicted upon the rest of the country for at least the last half century.

We would be better off without them.
The USA will be crippled with out California. But California will be liberated without the union.

[Don]

I think California would be the bigger loser in a split.

[Cletus]

The USA will be crippled with out California. But California will be liberated without the union.

Nonsense.

[jimmyz]

Chop off everything south of Malibu and give it back to Mexico.

[Scerab]

You people need to look thoroughly at what is occurring in California, because its the vanguard of what is to become nationwide.
This year California passed a huge demographic milestone. With Latinos becoming the majority population and whites becoming a minority. It is predicted that by 2060, this will be nationwide!
many other examples. Better to look an learn then shun and criticize.

[Newpublius]

What would happen if they did assuming the rest of the country allowed it?

Not much, really, if it were to happen within the next couple of years (and it won't), let's remember that there are many people who would have relatives on both sides of the new lines. They said the Civil War pitted brother vs brother, in times that was true, but 1860s America was far less mobile.

I think it would pretty much guarantee the democrats didn't win the presidency for a long long time.

That's the bonus! But likewise, in California, the Democrats will prevail.....sounds like a win/win to me!

If they seceded I think we would have to remove all federal property out of their newly formed nation including all the military bases.

You would have to have an equitable distribution. California does have an equitable claim to the common assets as well. So, for instance, the postal system, California would relinquish its claim to the postal assets elsewhere and the US would allow the California postal system to have the postal assets situated in California.


They would have to create their own defense network.

Eventually of course the California National Guard would have to simply be California all encompassing military. On seceding the US should not immediately withdraw or otherwise leave California defenseless. That would be inequitable and contrary to rational expectations.


In the best interests of our own country we would probably give the the benefit of our nuclear "umbrella" like we do Canada.

I am assuming Canada would want to join NATO and the like, or perhaps not. I mean, the point is that there's no reason to treat with California any worse than we currently treat with Canada and given what would be California's unique position as a former state, I would have no issue treating with them on even more favorable terms.


We would have to work out some kind of border control to keep them from coming to the USA uninvited.

Why? Look, if California guards is border with Mexico with sufficient diligence, I see no reason not to have an open border and a customs union with California.


We would have to move a lot of shipping ports to Oregon and Washington so we wouldn't have to transport across their country.

Why? All of a sudden California ports in places like Long Beach won't want to do business with us? Let the freighter unload in Long Beach and ship to the US from there. The Austrians and Swiss do this with other countries in Europe.


We could also offer an amnesty period of 24 months to allow former U.S. citizens the right to immigrate to other states in the U.S. no questions asked other than proof they were U.S. citizens.

I would say 24 months for anyone residing in California to simply indicate intent, ie there's no law against being a US citizen expat in California.


Then we could leave them to their own devises and if they wanted to elect their president by popular vote they could or they could just appoint a king or queen or potentate or sultan or rajah or what ever they want.

Or, more pertinently, they could employ the democratic socialist model they seem so desperate to employ and they can do so without forcing the rest of us to do it.

[Scerab]

Chop off everything south of Malibu and give it back to Mexico.
If California ever leaves the union, she will be immediately recognized by many of the superpowers in the United Nations and will be enrolled as an active member. Mexico will be wise to keep its distance.
A California without Red neck influence would be a great place. We will try to become fully dependent on green energy. We are completely self reliant in most essentials, Like food, water, energy and man power.

[stjames1_53]

The USA will be crippled with out California. But California will be liberated without the union.

you would be paying import duties and taxes. Your already over-burdened system would not endure without federal aid. You cannot afford all those illegals. You'll have to clean them up by yourselves. That'll place a heavier burden on those taxpayers. Your self-proclaimed weath ahs already disappeared. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/california-debt-crisis/
http://reason.com/archives/2016/02/05/californias-deep-debt-problems
http://watchdog.org/228486/california-443-billion-debt/
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/05/01/report-californias-actual-debt-set-at-848b-could-pass-1-1t/
yer gonna have to do some purty fancy footwork....................
The only other alternative is to heavily tax everything and anything. Your citizens won't want to give up their homes for the State.

[stjames1_53]

If California ever leaves the union, she will be immediately recognized by many of the superpowers in the United Nations and will be enrolled as an active member. Mexico will be wise to keep its distance.
A California without Red neck influence would be a great place. We will try to become fully dependent on green energy. We are completely self reliant in most essentials, Like food, water, energy and man power.
...false alarm folks, just another hater/bigot
You get most of your water from Arizona and Colorado. You can never be self sufficient. Man power won't mean crap of you can't feed and water the slaves.

[MisterVeritis]

You people need to look thoroughly at what is occurring in California, because its the vanguard of what is to become nationwide.
This year California passed a huge demographic milestone. With Latinos becoming the majority population and whites becoming a minority. It is predicted that by 2060, this will be nationwide!
many other examples. Better to look an learn then shun and criticize.
That will not happen if we stop importing a million of the dumbest, sickest, poorest black and brown people from third world nations each year, then giving them welfare so they can breed and pop out offspring while we work.

We have the opportunity to undo the Kennedy-Perpetual-Democrat-Party-Support-Immigration Law. We need to pause immigration for several decades.

[Ethereal]

The USA will be crippled with out California.

Because?

[AZ Jim]

The whole question is academic of course not to be taken any more serious than the routine Texas talk of secession. California alone has the 5th largest economy in the entire world. It's just hot head talk.

[Ethereal]

The whole question is academic of course not to be taken any more serious than the routine Texas talk of secession.

I'm sure the British felt the same way when talk of American independence began.

But it's becoming increasingly clear that the "union" is a tyrannical farce that only serves the interests of an oligarchy and not the people themselves.

[stjames1_53]

The whole question is academic of course not to be taken any more serious than the routine Texas talk of secession. California alone has the 5th largest economy in the entire world. It's just hot head talk.

as well as one of the largest state debts around

[Ethereal]

People keep acting like secession is some kind of contest to see which side will suffer the most as a result. I suppose it never occurred to them that secession could be beneficial to both sides? For example, California could benefit by opting out of the extremely expensive empire and drug war, leaving them more money to subsidize their public welfare. Conversely, the US would benefit by no longer being responsible for subsidizing California's massive population. Both sides would be better off. So whether you're a "liberal" or a "conservative", you should see California's secession as potentially beneficial to both sides.

[Newpublius]

I'm sure the British felt the same way when talk of American independence began.

But it's becoming increasingly clear that the "union" is a tyrannical farce that only serves the interests of an oligarchy and not the people themselves.

I see it a little bit differently, I simply see our interests diverging.

[Ethereal]

I see it a little bit differently, I simply see our interests diverging.
They diverged long ago. People simply refuse to acknowledge this reality.

The "union" was the biggest mistake this country ever made. I just wonder how long it will be before it's rectified.

[Newpublius]

People keep acting like secession is some kind of contest to see which side will suffer the most as a result. I suppose it never occurred to them that secession could be beneficial to both sides? For example, California could benefit by opting out of the extremely expensive empire and drug war, leaving them more money to subsidize their public welfare. Conversely, the US would benefit by no longer being responsible for subsidizing California's massive population. Both sides would be better off. So whether you're a "liberal" or a "conservative", you should see California's secession as potentially beneficial to both sides.
Indeed, one might even ask why Canada isn't clamoring to join the United States?

[Chris]

Dupe threads merged.

[Don]

If the federation of sovereign states had played out as the way it was originally intended we wouldn't even be discussing this. The federal government would never have grown to the size it is and never would have had the power that the states stupidly ceded to it. The people of each state could run their states the way they want as long as it was done constitutionally. The "smarter" states would set the example to the others on what was best. If some states did things stupidly they would have to live with it as they would not be subsidized by the other states. Competition. The president of the United States would have very little power and the states would still decide who gets elected to fill the position every 4 years. If we did get a president who wasn't all that good it wouldn't matter all that much because most of the power would reside in the senate and house.

[Peter1469]

If California ever leaves the union, she will be immediately recognized by many of the superpowers in the United Nations and will be enrolled as an active member. Mexico will be wise to keep its distance.
A California without Red neck influence would be a great place. We will try to become fully dependent on green energy. We are completely self reliant in most essentials, Like food, water, energy and man power.

You're broke. You can't pay your bills. Your state retirees have been lied too.

[Newpublius]

They diverged long ago. People simply refuse to acknowledge this reality.

The "union" was the biggest mistake this country ever made. I just wonder how long it will be before it's rectified.

Personally, I see a fair amount of cultural divergence, that much is for sure. Economically though, I see a mixed bag, I do see economic divergence, but there are still certain things about the union that are actually very compelling: 1. free trade, 2. monetary union, 3. customs union and 4. favorable borrowing terms. As to the last, I am no fan of fiscal profligacy but there is no question we borrow on fantastic terms and on terms much better than most states can borrow.

[stjames1_53]

You people need to look thoroughly at what is occurring in California, because its the vanguard of what is to become nationwide.
This year California passed a huge demographic milestone. With Latinos becoming the majority population and whites becoming a minority. It is predicted that by 2060, this will be nationwide!
many other examples. Better to look an learn then shun and criticize.

you guys aren't jack. You have no military. You have NO GUNS! You have no means to support the State AND military. Don't call us when the next big one hits....

[Newpublius]

You have no military. You have NO GUNS!

Sure they do, they have a guard of course and California currently is part of the US and naturally a certain percentage of the US military exists because of California.


You have no means to support the State AND military.

Yes, they do, currently the funds they pay in federal taxes won't be paid as federal taxes anymore.


Don't call us when the next big one hits....

Fair enough, but we don't get to call them when the hurricane hits Florida. See? It works both ways. Right now California pays federal taxes and part of those federal taxes pay to support FEMA of course. If they secede, their federal taxes stay in California and they can allocate whatever resources they like for a CEMA or to bolster whatever existing emergency response is in effect.

California is more than viable.

Canada responds to emergencies in Canada.

And if the episode were truly terrible, like the San Francisco fire in 1900 (?), they absolutely could pick up the phone, just like massive emergencies elsewhere also capable of drawing an international response.

[stjames1_53]

once they cede, there will be no military. The US will pull its forces to this side of the Rockies. No Military spending for us, you get what protection you can pay for.
Of course there's the issue of currency. You'll have to set up your own presses, buy the plates, coin stamps, backing for your currency.
Half of your country will be turned into industrial complexes, wineries will become corn fields, wheat fields. That'll be a lot of people to feed.
Realize the money you save by not paying Uncle Sam, will be collected anyway, as tariffs. COLA is going to be in-f*&^ing-sane.
Regardless, it's all talk. Ya'll don't have it in you to do it.

[Newpublius]

once they cede, there will be no military.

No, that's not quite how it would work. On secession, California and the US, you know, like grownups, will distribute, equitably, the military assets of the US. So, for instance, when Czechoslovakia split apart, the military of Czechoslovakia was split such that the Czechs had a military and so too did Slovakia. And sure enough, Slovakia continues to have a military.

[Green Arrow]

If the federation of sovereign states had played out as the way it was originally intended we wouldn't even be discussing this.

Maybe. Or maybe we would still have similar problems.

[Green Arrow]

you guys aren't jack. You have no military. You have NO GUNS! You have no means to support the State AND military. Don't call us when the next big one hits....

You'll be amazed, but Californians do actually own guns.

Shocking, I know.

[Bethere]

You don't recognize natural rights, we get it.

Others do, and care more for them than we do for man made codes.

Fear profits a man nothing.

Abraham Lincoln laughs at your lack of understanding concerning American history.

[Cthulhu]

Abraham Lincoln laughs at your lack of understanding concerning American history.
I'm not concerned over a corpse.

Fear profits a man nothing.

[Ethereal]

Personally, I see a fair amount of cultural divergence, that much is for sure. Economically though, I see a mixed bag, I do see economic divergence, but there are still certain things about the union that are actually very compelling: 1. free trade, 2. monetary union, 3. customs union and 4. favorable borrowing terms. As to the last, I am no fan of fiscal profligacy but there is no question we borrow on fantastic terms and on terms much better than most states can borrow.
I agree on free trade and maybe the customs union. The rest, not so much. The monetary union is particularly odious and is not something the constitution was intended to create.

[stjames1_53]

No, that's not quite how it would work. On secession, California and the US, you know, like grownups, will distribute, equitably, the military assets of the US. So, for instance, when Czechoslovakia split apart, the military of Czechoslovakia was split such that the Czechs had a military and so too did Slovakia. And sure enough, Slovakia continues to have a military.
this ain't Slovakia and it sure isn't Czechoslovakia and neither is California.............you are comparing quasi-socialist states with a republic. I'm not against California leaving the union. they can take their ridiculous gun laws with them....and ALL the illegals

[Newpublius]

I agree on free trade and maybe the customs union. The rest, not so much. The monetary union is particularly odious and is not something the constitution was intended to create.

Well the money is definitely in the Constitution, not so much the federal reserve system, but there was a time when a bank note was a note from a bank and in 1785, that Philadelphia bank note would wind up trading at a discount in NY.

Of course there could be a monetary union without a federal government, and today we can look at the Bahamas, Belize, Ecuador, Panama and I think a couple of others whose currencoes are dollarized.

I actually wonder today with the largely cashless society whether the benefits of monetary union wouldn't be muted somewhat.

Drawbacks notwithstanding, the ability to quote a price in US dollars intuitively conveys information.

[Bethere]

I agree on free trade and maybe the customs union. The rest, not so much. The monetary union is particularly odious and is not something the constitution was intended to create.

The Constitution replaced the articles of confederation for lots of reasons. One of the most critical was coining a national currency in order to, among other things, pay off our shared debt.

How is it that you didn't already know this?

[Ransom]

http://www.dailynews.com/government-and-politics/20161224/is-california-splitting-away-group-believes-california-should-form-its-own-nation

If its ballot measure succeeds, Yes California would pursue a 2019 vote to declare the state’s independence. At least half of the state’s voters would have to cast ballots and 55 percent would have to choose independence for California to become its own nation, according to document Yes California filed with the Attorney General’s office.
Talk of California secession is nothing new. But it gained momentum after Donald Trump’s election. Hillary Clinton got 62 percent of California’s vote in defeating Trump, the largest margin of victory for a presidential candidate in the state since 1936.


The November election, which gave Republicans the White House and continued congressional dominance, underscored California’s political divergence from the rest of the country.
While the GOP controls most state legislatures and governorships, Republicans are a shrinking minority in the Golden State, where Democrats control the Legislature, 39 of 53 congressional seats and all statewide elected offices.

Uhhh....best check your economic reality first.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-debt-clocks/state-of-california-debt-clock.html

[MMC]

Let them go.....who will protect them? They would fail as a Nation on their own.

Repubs would have to play like Snake Pliskin and Escape from L.A. :tongue:

[Boris The Animal]

Personally, I would much rather the San Andreas have a major conniption fit and that part of Commiefornia just separate (literally) from the rest of the US.

[Ransom]

The Rams moved to California, looked at how great that worked out.

[stjames1_53]

Let them go.....who will protect them? They would fail as a Nation on their own.

Repubs would have to play like Snake Pliskin and Escape from L.A. :tongue:

Let 'em go. No fed protection, no fed money, passports required, tariffs on anything coming through (cash only). Move all military out. They will not be allowed to participate in federal elections.
yeah..Those stupid liberals NEVER look around the corner................oh, and NO federal relief when disasters strike. Earthquakes?>>> TFB

[Ransom]

I say we let em go....then invade. Make Eric Trump Governor. Outlaw liberalism, declare a state of idiocy, plow up sanctuary cities.

Or...say fck it.....sell em to Russia, only fair, they sold ALaska to us.

[patrickt]

We have to secure the border immediately. If California secedes the idiots that destroyed the state will accelerate their flight to other states which they are now busy destroying.

[MMC]

Let 'em go. No fed protection, no fed money, passports required, tariffs on anything coming through (cash only). Move all military out. They will not be allowed to participate in federal elections.
yeah..Those stupid liberals NEVER look around the corner................oh, and NO federal relief when disasters strike. Earthquakes?>>> TFB

Moreover.....there goes Hillary's popular voters. The Demos would be screwed and never win again. http://politirant.com/Smileys/oldrant/danceshout.gif

[Ransom]

If they secede, that would be fine with me. They can declare open border, we'll build the wall along Arizona, Nevada, and Oregon.

[MMC]

I say we let em go....then invade. Make Eric Trump Governor. Outlaw liberalism, declare a state of idiocy, plow up sanctuary cities.

Or...say fck it.....sell em to Russia, only fair, they sold ALaska to us.
http://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M5c45e93f18d65c2118a0300645a81e60H2&w=245&h=299&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0
I call dibbs on Hollywood. http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/images/smilies/orcpoursuite.gif

[stjames1_53]

I say we let em go....then invade. Make Eric Trump Governor. Outlaw liberalism, declare a state of idiocy, plow up sanctuary cities.

Or...say fck it.....sell em to Russia, only fair, they sold ALaska to us.

with their debt, you'd be damned lucky to give it away.............We'd have to pay someone to take 'em

[stjames1_53]

Moreover.....there goes Hillary's popular voters. The Demos would be screwed and never win again. http://politirant.com/Smileys/oldrant/danceshout.gif

aaaaaaaaah, the upside...................man, it's funny, they'll be the illegals, too

[Captain Obvious]

See you down in Arizona bay...

[patrickt]

Moreover.....there goes Hillary's popular voters. The Demos would be screwed and never win again. http://politirant.com/Smileys/oldrant/danceshout.gif
She could be President for Life in California. Karma really is a bitch, isn't it?

But imagine the parties Bill Clinton, Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, Bill Cosby, and Whoopie Goldberg could have in the Peoples Republic of California.

[donttread]

Let them go.....who will protect them? They would fail as a Nation on their own.

Repubs would have to play like Snake Pliskin and Escape from L.A. :tongue:

Not necessarily. Nobody attacks Canada and I don't think we'd want anyone else that close to our borders. I'm all for Calexit but with the understanding that they will be treated as a real soverign nation, not like an Indian reservation.
Which means , border stops, passports, possibly even trade tarrifs . No aid or money from America.

[MMC]

She could be President for Life in California. Karma really is a bitch, isn't it?

But imagine the parties Bill Clinton, Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, Bill Cosby, and Whoopie Goldberg could have in the Peoples Republic of California.

Bill Cosby has the sure fire win.....Puddin Pops for everyone. :tongue:

[resister]

Bill Cosby has the sure fire win.....Puddin Pops for everyone. :tongue:
With some sleeping pills thrown in, when you wake up, that sticky feeling.....

[MMC]

With some sleeping pills thrown in, when you wake up, that sticky feeling.....

So in other words Bilbo Clinton for his VP, huh? :grin:

[patrickt]

If they secede, that would be fine with me. They can declare open border, we'll build the wall along Arizona, Nevada, and Oregon.
But, Oregon has already been infected so it would probably go with them.

But, think how peaceful California would be. Only one party like Cuba, Venezuela, and the old near and dear USSR. No real elections to make snowflakes freak. Legalized drugs, welfare on demand, and crime eradicated by eliminating laws against criminal acts.

Once they got rid of the remaining reactionaries who objected to their daughters being raped and homes robbed it would be a lovely socialist paradise.

[Bo-4]

Yeah, the economic reality is that they are our largest economy.

If fact, Calexit would make them the 6th largest economy in the the world ..

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/calexit-could-make-california-the-worlds-sixth-largest-economy-will-it-happen-2016-11-09

They honestly don't need anything the rest of the country produces, however lack of government funding and military protection wouldn't be good.

[exotix]

Will Trumpf become extinct ?


https://about.twitter.com/company

http://i67.tinypic.com/1q3dk9.png

[Captain Obvious]

Half the states voters would have to cast ballots?

Good luck getting those freeloading potheads to the polls.

[gamewell45]

Let 'em go. No fed protection, no fed money, passports required, tariffs on anything coming through (cash only). Move all military out. They will not be allowed to participate in federal elections.
yeah..Those stupid liberals NEVER look around the corner................oh, and NO federal relief when disasters strike. Earthquakes?>>> TFB

Now that's a really great idea; encourage them to split off and alienate them. California wouldn't fail if the broke off; in fact they'd most likely make friends with Russia and allow them to open up military bases just miles from the border and force us to have another huge border to defend thus costing Americans more taxpayer dollars.

[AZ Jim]

Half the states voters would have to cast ballots?

Good luck getting those freeloading potheads to the polls.Freeloading? Hardly. They give much more than the use, without California the birden for other states would be greater. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

[Captain Obvious]

Freeloading? Hardly. They give much more than the use, without California the birden for other states would be greater. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

lol

Did you read this.

"Wallet hub"?

:biglaugh:

You have to do better than that, lets see the underlying data. There are roo many lies out there waiting for rhe next sucker like you to take the bait.

Show me the data.

[donttread]

Now that's a really great idea; encourage them to split off and alienate them. California wouldn't fail if the broke off; in fact they'd most likely make friends with Russia and allow them to open up military bases just miles from the border and force us to have another huge border to defend thus costing Americans more taxpayer dollars.

If they want to be a soverign nation they need their own defences. If they bring in Russian Miltary we would probably re-annex them.

[GrassrootsConservative]

Should have signed a prenup so that lazy bitch doesn't take all our hard-earned money.

California is one big gold-digging **** of a state. I'm sure we'd just pay them a bunch of Federal Aid just like we do for all the other lazy, democratic-system-loathing nations.

They can take their AIDS and fuck right off. :grin:

[GrassrootsConservative]

Freeloading? Hardly. They give much more than the use, without California the birden for other states would be greater. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

That's because of the Silicon Valley. The average Californian does not do anything to ease the burden of other states.

And when the dumbasses run out of water who do you think will be responsible to fix that shit? I won't hold my breath waiting for you to figure out that a bunch of crybaby Liberal freeloaders can't solve such a problem without taking a whole lot more of my tax dollars.

[Don]

Its just whiney talk. They won't get enough support from California citizens to make it happen. When the lefties there screw the state up even more than they already have adults will step up and put a stop to it. The lefties and establishment have and are doing everything they can to divide this nation and turn people against each other. Divide and conquer. They are the ones that have put everyone into groups and turned them into enemies. They would love nothing more than to further erode this countries strength by trying to get states to secede. The people in this country are waking up to what these establishment pinkos have done to this country and they are starting to stand up and fight it.

[Common Sense]

Should have signed a prenup so that lazy bitch doesn't take all our hard-earned money.

California is one big gold-digging **** of a state. I'm sure we'd just pay them a bunch of Federal Aid just like we do for all the other lazy, democratic-system-loathing nations.

They can take their AIDS and fuck right off. :grin:

California pays into the federal pool more than it takes. Just like most liberal states. Red states typically take more than they give. There's some irony.

[stjames1_53]

California pays into the federal pool more than it takes. Just like most liberal states. Red states typically take more than they give. There's some irony.
another good reason for them to cede..they'd save all the "alleged" money. They're gonna need it.......

[GrassrootsConservative]

California pays into the federal pool more than it takes. Just like most liberal states. Red states typically take more than they give. There's some irony.

Only because of a very small portion of Californians that are taxed way too much.

[Ransom]

They're using too much water anyways.

[Common Sense]

They're using too much water anyways.

To feed you...

[resister]

To feed you...Wait... your not the one who claimed cali produces 25 % of the planets food supply, are you ?

[gamewell45]

If they want to be a soverign nation they need their own defences. If they bring in Russian Miltary we would probably re-annex them.

What I mean by defending the border is if they were to ally themselves with Russia and allow Russian troops onto their soil, it would mean we'd have to really beef up our border defenses against them. If you recall the panic when Castro allowed Russian troops and missiles 90 from US soil, think about it if they were right up against our border on the mainland.

Either way if that were the case and the US wanted to re-annex them, the Russians might not be too cooperative with us, so why allow them to leave in the first place?

[stjames1_53]

To feed you...

Dallyfornia doesn't feed me....................I feed myself, unlike you

[stjames1_53]

Wait... your not the one who claimed cali produces 25 % of the planets food supply, are you ?
good point..they might supply the occasional wine.....but they are mostly famous for surrendering their state to the illegals. They may leave.....