What Would Happen If.........

[FindersKeepers]

....on December 19, when the electors cast their votes, a large number of them who are not bound, become faithless electors and vote for Hillary when they should be voting for Trump?

Theoretically -- it could happen.

[Ethereal]

A civil war would break out.

[Cigar]

....on December 19, when the electors cast their votes, a large number of them who are not bound, become faithless electors and vote for Hillary when they should be voting for Trump?

Theoretically -- it could happen.

Nope, Donald is The President ... The GOP needs to Own It.

[Safety]

If a civil war broke out, how would the sides be determined? What criteria would be used to know friend from foe?

[Chris]

It could happen.

Would Trumpsters demonstrate like Clintonistas, or worse?

[Ethereal]

If a civil war broke out, how would the sides be determined? What criteria would be used to know friend from foe?
Trump-lovers on the one side and Trump-haters on the other.

[Chris]

If a civil war broke out, how would the sides be determined? What criteria would be used to know friend from foe?


https://i.snag.gy/ViBYlA.jpg

[Ethereal]

It could happen.

Would Trumpsters demonstrate like Clintonistas, or worse?

If I'm not mistaken, the OP is talking about a situation where the electors ignore the democratic will of the people and elect Hillary Clinton president.

If that's the case, civil war would be inevitable. There is so much pent up anger and frustration on both sides and to deny Trump supporters their victory would precipitate a massive convulsion in the American body politic.

[Cigar]

If a civil war broke out, how would the sides be determined? What criteria would be used to know friend from foe?

Funny, I looked at The Diverse Faces in those Protest ... I couldn't tell who's a Democrat or Republican :wink:

They all looked American to me.

[FindersKeepers]

If I'm not mistaken, the OP is talking about a situation where the electors ignore the democratic will of the people and elect Hillary Clinton president.

If that's the case, civil war would be inevitable. There is so much pent up anger and frustration on both sides and to deny Trump supporters their victory would precipitate a massive convulsion in the American body politic.

Yes, the specter of civil war would loom.

It's a total long shot, of course, but if enough "Trump" electors were set on voting for Clinton, rather than Trump, it could happen. Legally, Hillary could still be our president.

I imagine a complete uproar would ensue.

[Chris]

If I'm not mistaken, the OP is talking about a situation where the electors ignore the democratic will of the people and elect Hillary Clinton president.

If that's the case, civil war would be inevitable. There is so much pent up anger and frustration on both sides and to deny Trump supporters their victory would precipitate a massive convulsion in the American body politic.


Right, but it would depend on Trumpsters taking it to the streets. Trumpsters are more like Tea Partiers, older citizens, Clintonists are more like OWS, millennials. Not sure Trumpsters got it in them.

[FindersKeepers]

Funny, I looked at The Diverse Faces in those Protest ... I couldn't tell who's a Democrat or Republican :wink:

They all looked American to me.


I hope someday soon everyone will see things that very same way.

A good day that would be!

[del]

what if rats were the size of english schoolboys?

what if superman was a nazi?

what if eleanor roosevelt could fly?

[FindersKeepers]

Right, but it would depend on Trumpsters taking it to the streets. Trumpsters are more like Tea Partiers, older citizens, Clintonists are more like OWS, millennials. Not sure Trumpsters got it in them.

LOL -- you make a very good point.

[Chris]

what if rats were the size of english schoolboys?

what if superman was a nazi?

what if eleanor roosevelt could fly?


What if you contributed to discussion?

[FindersKeepers]

what if rats were the size of english schoolboys?

what if superman was a nazi?

what if eleanor roosevelt could fly?

"Faithless electors" are a real thing. Your examples are not.

[FindersKeepers]

What if you contributed to discussion?

I think he's still angry about the election. I've sensed a lot of animosity from the #nevertrump crowd.

[Ethereal]

It would probably begin as a low-intensity conflict between dissidents and authority. Sporadic confrontations, random attacks, widespread noncompliance and subversion, etc.

At some point, a flashpoint would emerge and an incident would spark a more comprehensive and overt armed campaign to assert control over the central government.

Of course, this is all speculation on my part, but I fail to see how Trump supporters could take such an affront lying down. They are REALLY angry as it is and denying them a victory would likely push them over the edge.

[Chris]

LOL -- you make a very good point.

I can only compare to Tea Partiers. We would meet in the park to carry signs, listen to some speakers, shout give me liberty, and then go home, to work, to vacation.

[Ethereal]

I can only compare to Tea Partiers. We would meet in the park to carry signs, listen to some speakers, shout give me liberty, and then go home, to work, to vacation.
I think you underestimate just how angry and hopeless many Trump supporters are feeling.

[HoneyBadger]

Trump-lovers on the one side and Trump-haters on the other.

It's not quite that simple.

I'm not a Trump lover but once the ballot box fails as the only legitimate way of transferring power, you are left with only one other option.

[Ethereal]

It's not quite that simple.

I'm not a Trump lover but once the ballot box fails as the only legitimate way of transferring power, you are left with only one other option.

I agree the reality would be more complex, but that would be the general state of affairs.

[Chris]

"Faithless electors" are a real thing. Your examples are not.

Indeed, see THE "FAITHLESS NINE" Presidential Electors who have defected in the past (http://www.thegreenpapers.com/Hx/FaithlessElectors.html). And Texas elector threatens not to vote Trump (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/donald-trump-electoral-college-texas-chris-suprun-227422).

[Cigar]

I hope someday soon everyone will see things that very same way.

A good day that would be!

That in a Nutshell is America's Number One Problem ...

There are Americans who don't or won't see other Americans as Americans

[Chris]

I think you underestimate just how angry and hopeless many Trump supporters are feeling.


I could be as I'm not one of them. Trump rallies were certainly raucous. And Trump might lead the charge and rile them. It could happen I suppose.

[Chris]

That in a Nutshell is America's Number One Problem ...

There are Americans who don't or won't see other Americans as Americans





Right, those others were called Deplorables.

[Cigar]

I think you underestimate just how angry and hopeless many Trump supporters are feeling.

I think Trump Supporters are finally catching up to the real world.

... hopeless has been around for an awful long time, but it's only a problem when it becomes personal.

[Ethereal]

That in a Nutshell is America's Number One Problem ...

There are Americans who don't or won't see other Americans as Americans




Because the term "American" has no consistent or shared meaning among people who identify as such apart from an arbitrarily defined geographic region.

Some Americans believe that being an American means you embrace authoritarian socialism.

Some Americans believe that being an American means you embrace fascism.

Some Americans believe that being an American means you embrace liberty.

There is no common ideological conception of what it means to be an American and that is why there is almost no chance that the "United States" will persist as a coherent entity into the future.

At some point, the "union" will explode or implode under the pressure of factionalism, which is exactly what the "anti-federalists" predicted would happen if the US Constitution was ratified.

[Cigar]

Right, those others were called Deplorables.

Long before Deplorables existed ... there are Minorities that are being treated in Deplorable Physical Acts ...

So if their delicate feelings are hurt, that line is long and has a long waiting period ... get over it.

[Cigar]

Because the term "American" has no consistent or shared meaning among people who identify as such apart from an arbitrarily defined geographic region.

Some Americans believe that being an American means you embrace authoritarian socialism.

Some Americans believe that being an American means you embrace fascism.

Some Americans believe that being an American means you embrace liberty.

There is no common ideological conception of what it means to be an American and that is why there is almost no chance that the "United States" will persist as a coherent entity into the future.

At some point, the "union" will explode or implode under the pressure of factionalism, which is exactly what the "anti-federalists" predicted would happen if the US Constitution was ratified.

Ok ... let me Replace the Phrase/Word "American" with "Human-Being"

Does that work for you?

[Chris]

Long before Deplorables existed ... there are Minorities that are being treated in Deplorable Physical Acts ...

So if their delicate feelings are hurt, that line is long and has a long waiting period ... get over it.


Not what Trump is about, much as Clinton tried to paint him that way. Trump is orange, not white. :D

[Safety]

Trump-lovers on the one side and Trump-haters on the other.

No, I get that. I'm speaking to how you would tell by looking through the sight on your rifle. It won't be the greys vs the blues.

[Green Arrow]

https://i.snag.gy/ViBYlA.jpg
Chris, you do realize Hobbes was arguing that the only way to keep humans in check was to institute a single individual or council with ultimate power, right? Like, super mega dictator.

[Green Arrow]

If I'm not mistaken, the OP is talking about a situation where the electors ignore the democratic will of the people and elect Hillary Clinton president.

If that's the case, civil war would be inevitable. There is so much pent up anger and frustration on both sides and to deny Trump supporters their victory would precipitate a massive convulsion in the American body politic.

"The democratic will of the people" was roughly split down the middle between Trump and Clinton, with 200,000 more choosing Clinton than Trump.

[HoneyBadger]

"The democratic will of the people" was roughly split down the middle between Trump and Clinton, with 200,000 more choosing Clinton than Trump.

Uh, that's not the way it works. The will of the people was to vote for more Trump electors than Clinton electors.

[Green Arrow]

Uh, that's not the way it works. The will of the people was to vote for more Trump electors than Clinton electors.
No, the will of the people was in who they voted for. There weren't any electors on the ballot.

[Green Arrow]

Uh, that's not the way it works. The will of the people was to vote for more Trump electors than Clinton electors.
No, the will of the people was in who they voted for. There weren't any electors on the ballot.

[HoneyBadger]

No, the will of the people was in who they voted for. There weren't any electors on the ballot.

If people don't understand how Presidents are elected, they probably ought to sit out the vote. You are not directly voting for a candidate. FYI, some states do list the names of the electors on the ballot underneath the candidates name.

[Peter1469]

....on December 19, when the electors cast their votes, a large number of them who are not bound, become faithless electors and vote for Hillary when they should be voting for Trump?

Theoretically -- it could happen.

She conceded the election. So I am not sure what would happen. It would be a constitutional crisis.

[Chris]

She conceded the election. So I am not sure what would happen. It would be a constitutional crisis.

That's right. Is a concession binding?

[FindersKeepers]

That's right. Is a concession binding?

That's an interesting question.

[Chris]

That's an interesting question.


Looked it up, Gore conceded to Bush, then took it back. Lost anyway.

No, not binding, just a courtesy.

[FindersKeepers]

Looked it up, Gore conceded to Bush, then took it back. Lost anyway.

No, not binding, just a courtesy.

I see. So, theoretically, if the electors go rogue, Trump could lose his victory. I don't think they will, but with the volatile atmosphere we have, it would not surprise me if some electors are pressured to reconsider their votes.

Like Peter said -- it would be a constitutional crisis.

[Peter1469]

That's right. Is a concession binding?Technically I doubt it.

[Green Arrow]

If people don't understand how Presidents are elected, they probably ought to sit out the vote. You are not directly voting for a candidate. FYI, some states do list the names of the electors on the ballot underneath the candidates name.

How the president is elected is irrelevant. Nobody votes for electors. And even if people did, 200,000 more people wanted her to have the most electors than wanted Trump.