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Bethere
11-11-2016, 01:03 PM
Lock him up!
Lock him up!
Lock him up!

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/kremlin-says-russian-experts-met-trump-staff-campaign-denies-it-n682406

MOSCOW — A top Russian diplomat and Vladimir Putin's spokesman said Thursday that Russian experts were in contact with some members of President-elect Donald Trump's staff during the presidential campaign, a period in which the United States accused Russia of hacking into Democratic Party emails systems.
A spokeswoman for Trump denied the assertion, but it raised the ongoing suspicions about the president-elect's relationship with Putin's government that had dogged his campaign with former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

exploited
11-11-2016, 01:06 PM
I have always been interested in espionage and propaganda.

Putin has achieved one of the greatest campaigns in modern history.

I really hate that man, but damn do I respect his operational abilities.

He undermined Clinton, and now he is undermining Trump. It is kind of hilarious to see how effective he is.

Bethere
11-11-2016, 01:09 PM
I have always been interested in espionage and propaganda.

Putin has achieved one of the greatest campaigns in modern history.

I really hate that man, but damn do I respect his operational abilities.

He undermined Clinton, and now he is undermining Trump. It is kind of hilarious to see how effective he is.

And, sadly, how vulnerable and fragile democracy is.

Cigar
11-11-2016, 01:10 PM
Can you Imagine the GOP and Conservative Outrage if there was even a hint that that happened in 2008 or 2012?

But it's Trump, so we know that will be Forgiven and Forgotten

Let Trump-B-Trump

exploited
11-11-2016, 01:13 PM
And, sadly, how vulnerable and fragile democracy is.
Yes. He has identified the weaknesses of a polarized liberal democracy, and is now exploiting them brilliantly.

Bethere
11-11-2016, 01:30 PM
Yes. He has identified the weaknesses of a polarized liberal democracy, and is now exploiting them brilliantly.
Trump is going to get owned.

I hope America is not permanently damaged because of it.

exploited
11-11-2016, 01:45 PM
Trump is going to get owned.

I hope America is not permanently damaged because of it.
As I have said elsewhere, it is of critical importance that Trump not deal with Putin directly, and that he allow an experienced foreign policy specialist to handle negotiations with Russia, without interfering. Putin is more intelligent, more capable, more ruthless, more accomplished and more experienced than Trump is or ever will be. If he is able to directly deal with Trump for important negotiations, he will play him like a drum.

Throughout the entire election, Trump has given every indication that he is more than happy allowing Putin to expand his sphere of influence, to play a far more active role in settling conflicts, etc. He has also undermined NATO continuously and even gone so far as to encourage Russia to commit cyber-espionage against the US.

This suggests a very serious disregard for geopolitical reality. Russia is not a nice guy. The non-interventionists who sing them praises are insane.

Common
11-11-2016, 01:52 PM
Im going to pull a safety here and a del in one driveby swat

LOL
Im appalled not

Ethereal
11-11-2016, 01:54 PM
This delusional Russophobic narrative simply will not die. An everlasting testament to the power of propaganda.

Cigar
11-11-2016, 01:56 PM
Times really have changed ... The Right is making excuses for Russia :laugh:

Ethereal
11-11-2016, 01:56 PM
The non-interventionists who sing them praises are insane.

This is nothing more than a figment of your imagination.

exploited
11-11-2016, 01:56 PM
This delusional Russophobic narrative simply will not die. An everlasting testament to the power of propaganda.

They are quoting a Russian official. How is that Russophobic, or propaganda?

resister
11-11-2016, 01:57 PM
Lock him up!
Lock him up!
Lock him up!

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/kremlin-says-russian-experts-met-trump-staff-campaign-denies-it-n682406

MOSCOW — A top Russian diplomat and Vladimir Putin's spokesman said Thursday that Russian experts were in contact with some members of President-elect Donald Trump's staff during the presidential campaign, a period in which the United States accused Russia of hacking into Democratic Party emails systems.
A spokeswoman for Trump denied the assertion, but it raised the ongoing suspicions about the president-elect's relationship with Putin's government that had dogged his campaign with former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.Heresay,rubbish

Ethereal
11-11-2016, 01:59 PM
They are quoting a Russian official. How is that Russophobic, or propaganda?
The implication that there is something untoward or problematic about a potential president communicating with Russia is what I am referring to.

Of course he should be communicating with Russia. They are a major power and we have strained relations with them as it is. Communication is a basic prerequisite for diplomacy.

exploited
11-11-2016, 02:02 PM
Heresay,rubbish
It could be, absolutely. That is what is so brilliant about it. Once again, Russia makes it clear that their number one goal is to undermine the American system.

Let's say that it is false, and that the Russians simply invented it - why would they do that? The only rationale is to increase American political instability.

Let's say that it is true, and what the Russian claimed is true. This puts Trump in a precarious position. He can't deny it, because the Russians would almost certainly have proof. And he can't admit it, because doing so will look pretty bad considering he has been denying any sort of Russian connection for months and months.

Either way, this destabilizes the US. Putin is simply excellent at this.

Ethereal
11-11-2016, 02:05 PM
It could be, absolutely. That is what is so brilliant about it. Once again, Russia makes it clear that their number one goal is to undermine the American system.

Let's say that it is false, and that the Russians simply invented it - why would they do that? The only rationale is to increase American political instability.

Let's say that it is true, and what the Russian claimed is true. This puts Trump in a precarious position. He can't deny it, because the Russians would almost certainly have proof. And he can't admit it, because doing so will look pretty bad considering he has been denying any sort of Russian connection for months and months.

Either way, this destabilizes the US. Putin is simply excellent at this.
Funny, I don't feel undermined. I mean, if all it takes to undermine the "American system" is to make American politicians look dishonest and foolish, then it must not be a very robust system to begin with. And lest we forget, American politicians do a fine job of appearing dishonest and foolish without any help from Russia.

exploited
11-11-2016, 02:05 PM
The implication that there is something untoward or problematic about a potential president communicating with Russia is what I am referring to.

Of course he should be communicating with Russia. They are a major power and we have strained relations with them as it is. Communication is a basic prerequisite for diplomacy.
The issue being that the Trump campaign has been denying any communication for months, and denied any communication today.

Why?

Ethereal
11-11-2016, 02:08 PM
The issue being that the Trump campaign has been denying any communication for months, and denied any communication today.

Why?
Probably because they don't want to give more life to the Russophobic narratives that the war-loving corporate media and establishment neocons have been using to demonize Trump.

JDubya
11-11-2016, 02:08 PM
Can you Imagine the GOP and Conservative Outrage if there was even a hint that that happened in 2008 or 2012?

But it's Trump, so we know that will be Forgiven and Forgotten

Let Trump-B-Trump
The right-wing hypocrisy here, unmatchable by the greatest propagandists in history on a normal day, is so far off the scales here, there are no words to describe it.

Herculean. Goebbels-like. Stalinesque. Jupiterian. Galactic.

None of them suffice.

exploited
11-11-2016, 02:11 PM
Probably because they don't want to give more life to the Russophobic narratives that the war-loving corporate media and establishment neocons have been using to demonize Trump.

That is possible, certainly. I don't know how this would "take the life" out of the alleged Russophobic narrative, but I could see Trump and Co. assuming that it would.

We will see. If what I suspect is true, we will have direct evidence of Russia communicating with the Trump campaign shortly, and if Putin is as good as I think he is, it will likely be about unreleased e-mails.

JDubya
11-11-2016, 02:13 PM
The implication that there is something untoward or problematic about a potential president communicating with Russia is what I am referring to.
Of course he should be communicating with Russia. They are a major power and we have strained relations with them as it is. Communication is a basic prerequisite for diplomacy.

So now let's see you spin the reason for the FBI obtaining a FISA warrant to inspect the contents of his personal server (remember that term?) for possible violations of foreign banking laws, espionage and election tampering.

This should be good.

Let me go pop some corn while your conjuring this up....

NapRover
11-11-2016, 02:15 PM
So now let's see you spin the reason for the FBI obtaining a FISA warrant to inspect the contents of his personal server (remember that term?) for possible violations of foreign banking laws, espionage and election tampering.

No problem-the corrupt DOJ, in trying to protect Comrades Obama and Clinton, ordered an investigation to obtain dirt so as to defeat the opponent and have the legacy carried forward. This should be good.

Let me go pop some corn while your conjuring this up....

That's easy, the POTUS and corrupt DOJ ordered an investigation to smear the candidate who threatened the legacy.

Ethereal
11-11-2016, 02:17 PM
So now let's see you spin the reason for the FBI obtaining a FISA warrant to inspect the contents of his personal server (remember that term?) for possible violations of foreign banking laws, espionage and election tampering.

This should be good.

Let me go pop some corn while your conjuring this up....
I don't even know what you're asking me. I suspect you don't either. Just remember to check under your bed for Kremlin agents before you go to sleep tonight.

resister
11-11-2016, 02:19 PM
The implication that there is something untoward or problematic about a potential president communicating with Russia is what I am referring to.

Of course he should be communicating with Russia. They are a major power and we have strained relations with them as it is. Communication is a basic prerequisite for diplomacy.
Just like Hillary did,not to mention that pesky Uranium deal

Ethereal
11-11-2016, 02:19 PM
That Russian bank that Trump's server was communicating with is not under any sanctions and is heavily involved in the US economy and political system, including visits to the White House. No doubt JDubya will be demanding an investigation of every politician who has any connection to this nefarious banking entity.

Ethereal
11-11-2016, 02:22 PM
That is possible, certainly. I don't know how this would "take the life" out of the alleged Russophobic narrative, but I could see Trump and Co. assuming that it would.

We will see. If what I suspect is true, we will have direct evidence of Russia communicating with the Trump campaign shortly, and if Putin is as good as I think he is, it will likely be about unreleased e-mails.
Perhaps. I don't have any major disagreements with that interpretation of events.

But I am curious. Do your posts in this thread count as "praise" for Putin? I mean, you've been lauding his leadership qualities quite profusely. Not that I disagree with anything you've said in that regard, but given your accusation that non-interventionists are somehow "praising" Putin, I wonder what, exactly, that is supposed to mean and how it's any different than what you're saying about him.

JDubya
11-11-2016, 02:30 PM
I don't even know what you're asking me. I suspect you don't either. Just remember to check under your bed for Kremlin agents before you go to sleep tonight.

You can try all you want to dodge the issue....

https://media.giphy.com/media/L2KHKeiYyLEMo/giphy.gif

But it's coming and you won't be able to hide from it.

exploited
11-11-2016, 02:31 PM
Perhaps. I don't have any major disagreements with that interpretation of events.

But I am curious. Do your posts in this thread count as "praise" for Putin? I mean, you've been lauding his leadership qualities quite profusely. Not that I disagree with anything you've said in that regard, but given your accusation that non-interventionists are somehow "praising" Putin, I wonder what, exactly, that is supposed to mean and how it's any different than what you're saying about him.

Definitely it counts as praise. The man is an operational genius. He has managed to accumulate an astounding personal fortune, annihilate his political opponents, identify and properly organize his assymetrical capabilities, expand his countries influence to places like the Philippines, etc. What he is doing is evil, to be clear. He is an authoritarian and something like a fascist. But despite that, I have to admire his handiwork.

What I meant about non-intervention is simple: many people here have advocated the Russian strategy in Syria, while also being extremely critical of American interventionism. The truth is that Syria simply does not matter to Russia beyond being a geopolitical chesspiece. The same is true of the US, yes, I just don't like this idea that what Russia and the SNG are doing and are going to do is right. It isn't. It is a tremendous wrong that has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

It is important to note that the SNG wouldn't have lasted as long if it weren't for Russian support in the first place. I also believe that while the rebellion in Syria is dominated by Islamists, and the US should never have gotten involved, the SNG under Assad was a tyranny. His human rights abuses are lengthy. We should not support the Russians actions.

Ethereal
11-11-2016, 02:32 PM
You can try all you want to dodge the issue....

https://media.giphy.com/media/L2KHKeiYyLEMo/giphy.gif

But it's coming and you won't be able to hide from it.
If only I knew what it was I was dodging.

Ethereal
11-11-2016, 02:34 PM
Definitely it counts as praise. The man is an operational genius. He has managed to accumulate an astounding personal fortune, annihilate his political opponents, identify and properly organize his assymetrical capabilities, expand his countries influence to places like the Philippines, etc. What he is doing is evil, to be clear. He is an authoritarian and something like a fascist. But despite that, I have to admire his handiwork.

What I meant about non-intervention is simple: many people here have advocated the Russian strategy in Syria, while also being extremely critical of American interventionism. The truth is that Syria simply does not matter to Russia beyond being a geopolitical chesspiece. The same is true of the US, yes, I just don't like this idea that what Russia and the SNG are doing and are going to do is right. It isn't. It is a tremendous wrong that has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

It is important to note that the SNG wouldn't have lasted as long if it weren't for Russian support in the first place. I also believe that while the rebellion in Syria is dominated by Islamists, and the US should never have gotten involved, the SNG under Assad was a tyranny. His human rights abuses are lengthy. We should not support the Russians actions.
I'm fine with leaving that mess alone. The only direct involvement I would favor would be helping the Kurds achieve their independence.

exploited
11-11-2016, 02:35 PM
I'm fine with leaving that mess alone. The only direct involvement I would favor would be helping the Kurds achieve their independence.

It is funny that we disagree about basically everything, but on foreign policy, we are very similar.

Ethereal
11-11-2016, 02:38 PM
It is funny that we disagree about basically everything, but on foreign policy, we are very similar.
If we remain respectful, I'm sure you will find we have more in common than you think.

exploited
11-11-2016, 02:42 PM
If we remain respectful, I'm sure you will find we have more in common than you think.
Okay, in light of this new spirit of reconciliation, I'd like to sincerely apologize to you for the things I have said about you, and the insults I have made against you and your character. Like you, I am pretty passionate about my politics. It is not hard for me to get carried away with it. So, moving forward, I'd like to put the past behind us and try to get along. Cool?

Bethere
11-11-2016, 02:47 PM
Okay, in light of this new spirit of reconciliation, I'd like to sincerely apologize to you for the things I have said about you, and the insults I have made against you and your character. Like you, I am pretty passionate about my politics. It is not hard for me to get carried away with it. So, moving forward, I'd like to put the past behind us and try to get along. Cool?

16587

exploited
11-11-2016, 02:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA

(I was being serious though.)