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Ethereal
11-19-2016, 11:14 PM
The Stark Contrast Between GOP’s Self-Criticism in 2012 and Democrats’ Blame-Everyone-Else Posture Now (https://theintercept.com/2016/11/18/the-stark-contrast-between-the-gops-self-criticism-in-2012-and-the-democrats-blame-everyone-else-posture-now/)

Glenn Greenwald
November 18 2016, 6:29 a.m.

IT IS NOT an exaggeration to say that the Democratic Party is in shambles as a political force. Not only did it just lose the White House to a wildly unpopular farce of a candidate despite a virtually unified establishment behind it, and not only is it the minority party in both the Senate and House, but it is getting crushed at historical record rates on the state and local levels as well. Surveying this wreckage last week, party stalwart Matthew Yglesias of Vox minced no words: “The Obama years have created a Democratic Party that’s essentially a smoking pile of rubble.”

One would assume that the operatives and loyalists of such a weak, defeated, and wrecked political party would be eager to engage in some introspection and self-critique, and to produce a frank accounting of what they did wrong so as to alter their plight. In the case of 2016 Democrats, one would be quite mistaken.

https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2016/11/nytgov-1000x554.png

At least thus far, there is virtually no evidence of any such intention. Quite the contrary, Democrats have spent the last 10 days flailing around blaming everyone except for themselves, constructing a carousel of villains and scapegoats — from Julian Assange, Vladimir Putin, James Comey, the electoral college, “fake news,” and Facebook, to Susan Sarandon, Jill Stein, millennials, Bernie Sanders, Clinton-critical journalists, and, most of all, insubordinate voters themselves — to blame them for failing to fulfill the responsibility that the Democratic Party, and it alone, bears: to elect Democratic candidates.

This Accept-No-Responsibility, Blame-Everyone-Else posture stands in stark contrast to how the Republican National Committee reacted in 2012...

What Greenwald doesn't know about the Democrat party is that admitting failure is simply not in their DNA.

They have overseen the slow but steady ruination of multiple cities and entire states over the years and not once have they ever stopped to consider the possibility that their ideology and its attendant policies are responsible.

That is because Democrat partisans all suffer from the same mental pathology: Extreme egotism.

They really believe they are the smartest, wisest, and most educated people in the world and that there is simply no way anything could be their fault, including the crushing defeat they experienced in the recent elections.

It MUST be someone else's fault. ANYONE but their own. Or so they tell themselves. So there will be no introspection or anything like it in the wake of the epic smack-down they just received. They will just double down on being snooty, arrogant, condescending, self-righteous, etc. and simply hope that things change somehow.


[Edited for copyright compliance.]

Common
11-20-2016, 12:29 AM
This has been the case with the democrats since Carter and it got progressively worse with clinton.

The democrat party is a fractured special interest party. They have positioned themselves into having to champion with campaign rhetoric a few special interest groups.

The left does nothing but blame everyone else and call them names and label them. Its not working for them as well as it used to is it.

They were once the champions of all working americans now they are their greatest enemy.
The last time the GOP had the house and senate they blew it with their rhetoric that was all about corporate and rich america. If they do that again this time, they will blow it and 2020 get hosed and the pendulum swings back and forth.

Ive said it many times, when either party goes to the extreme, americans throw them out on their ass.

resister
11-20-2016, 12:47 AM
It's comey's fault,it's so and so's fault, couldn't of been my "deplorable"comment!Take note career politicians, we the people don't like being insulted(2020 democrats, take note)

Common
11-20-2016, 12:52 AM
It's comey's fault,it's so and so's fault, couldn't of been my "deplorable"comment!Take note career politicians, we the people don't like being insulted(2020 democrats, take note)
trump supporters are all racists, homophobic, someone tell them that doesnt work anymore

resister
11-20-2016, 01:10 AM
trump supporters are all racists, homophobic, someone tell them that doesnt work anymore
They might figure it out......in 2014

resister
11-20-2016, 01:12 AM
trump supporters are all racists, homophobic, someone tell them that doesnt work anymore
Funny 2 watch the post necropsy

resister
11-20-2016, 01:13 AM
They might figure it out......in 2024

Peter1469
11-20-2016, 05:48 AM
The Dems are made up of very different groups who have perceived victim status as their only link with each other.

Now that the SJW agenda has been made public, America has rejected the Dems.


This has been the case with the democrats since Carter and it got progressively worse with clinton.

The democrat party is a fractured special interest party. They have positioned themselves into having to champion with campaign rhetoric a few special interest groups.

The left does nothing but blame everyone else and call them names and label them. Its not working for them as well as it used to is it.

They were once the champions of all working americans now they are their greatest enemy.
The last time the GOP had the house and senate they blew it with their rhetoric that was all about corporate and rich america. If they do that again this time, they will blow it and 2020 get hosed and the pendulum swings back and forth.

Ive said it many times, when either party goes to the extreme, americans throw them out on their ass.

stjames1_53
11-20-2016, 06:14 AM
What Greenwald doesn't know about the Democrat party is that admitting failure is simply not in their DNA.

They have overseen the slow but steady ruination of multiple cities and entire states over the years and not once have they ever stopped to consider the possibility that their ideology and its attendant policies are responsible.

That is because Democrat partisans all suffer from the same mental pathology: Extreme egotism.

They really believe they are the smartest, wisest, and most educated people in the world and that there is simply no way anything could be their fault, including the crushing defeat they experienced in the recent elections.

It MUST be someone else's fault. ANYONE but their own. Or so they tell themselves. So there will be no introspection or anything like it in the wake of the epic smack-down they just received. They will just double down on being snooty, arrogant, condescending, self-righteous, etc. and simply hope that things change somehow.

there are a few in here that still think they won the election...............talk about under-educated

donttread
11-20-2016, 07:50 AM
This has been the case with the democrats since Carter and it got progressively worse with clinton.

The democrat party is a fractured special interest party. They have positioned themselves into having to champion with campaign rhetoric a few special interest groups.

The left does nothing but blame everyone else and call them names and label them. Its not working for them as well as it used to is it.

They were once the champions of all working americans now they are their greatest enemy.
The last time the GOP had the house and senate they blew it with their rhetoric that was all about corporate and rich america. If they do that again this time, they will blow it and 2020 get hosed and the pendulum swings back and forth.

Ive said it many times, when either party goes to the extreme, americans throw them out on their ass.


They need the poor to stay poor in order to survive and I think people are begining to get and of course reject that. They pretty much have no real platform

donttread
11-20-2016, 07:58 AM
It's comey's fault,it's so and so's fault, couldn't of been my "deplorable"comment!Take note career politicians, we the people don't like being insulted(2020 democrats, take note)

Could it have possibly been the fact that the DNC cheated to nominate a felon instead of letting the registered dems choose? Naw..

Tahuyaman
11-20-2016, 08:42 AM
Democrats Blaming Everyone Except Themselves
Honestly, why would anyone expect them to change their stripes now? This has been their Modus Operandi since the Reagan era. After all, that is when the Democratic Party started to become a conglomeration of all the far left wing factions and various victim groups in American society.

Chris
11-20-2016, 08:48 AM
The Republicans are broken as well. Trump's win has blinded them to it.

donttread
11-20-2016, 09:03 AM
Democrats Blaming Everyone Except Themselves


Honestly, why would anyone expect them to change their stripes now? This has been their Modus Operandi since the Reagan era. After all, that is when the Democratic Party started to become a conglomeration of all the far left wing factions and various victim groups in American society.

Neither "major party" is anything but a shadow of what they once were

Tahuyaman
11-20-2016, 09:22 AM
Democrats Blaming Everyone Except Themselves


Honestly, why would anyone expect them to change their stripes now? This has been their Modus Operandi since the Reagan era. After all, that is when the Democratic Party started to become a conglomeration of all the far left wing factions and various victim groups in American society.


Neither "major party" is anything but a shadow of what they once were


Are you one of these who demands that when one criticized the Democrats, you must always equally criticize Republicans?

Ravens Fan
11-20-2016, 09:26 AM
Are you one of these who demands that when one criticized the Democrats, you must always equally criticize Republicans?
I think it is obvious that the Republican party is just as broken. I mean, the establishment may be falling in line behind him now, but the mere fact that Trump was on the ticket shows that things are not good in the GOP either.

Tahuyaman
11-20-2016, 09:30 AM
I think it is obvious that the Republican party is just as broken. I mean, the establishment may be falling in line behind him now, but the mere fact that Trump was on the ticket shows that things are not good in the GOP either.


Again, is one required to criticize both parties in order to legitamize the specific criticisms of either?

It looks to me as though one party is trying to right themselves while another is going even deeper into the hyper partisan ditch.

Chris
11-20-2016, 09:31 AM
This is what Bannon says of the new Republican Party in Steve Bannon: 'Darkness is good' (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/18/politics/steve-bannon-donald-trump-hollywood-reporter-interview/):


..."I'm a nationalist. I'm an economic nationalist," he said in the interview. "The globalists gutted the American working class and created a middle class in Asia. The issue now is about Americans looking to not get f---ed over. If (the Trump White House delivers), we'll get 60 percent of the white vote, and 40 percent of the black and Hispanic vote and we'll govern for 50 years. That's what the Democrats missed. They were talking to these people with companies with a $9 billion market cap employing nine people. It's not reality. They lost sight of what the world is about."

..."Like (Andrew) Jackson's populism, we're going to build an entirely new political movement," he said. "It's everything related to jobs. The conservatives are going to go crazy. I'm the guy pushing a trillion-dollar infrastructure plan. With negative interest rates throughout the world, it's the greatest opportunity to rebuild everything. Shipyards, iron works, get them all jacked up. We're just going to throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks. It will be as exciting as the 1930s, greater than the Reagan revolution -- conservatives, plus populists, in an economic nationalist movement."

That's quite liberal. Trump ran left of Clinton.

Ravens Fan
11-20-2016, 09:41 AM
Again, is one required to criticize both parties in order to legitamize the specific criticisms of either?

It looks to me as though one party is trying to right themselves while another is going even deeper into the hyper partisan ditch.
To those who have no loyalties to either party, both are obviously broken. Why wouldn't one point that out?

Tahuyaman
11-20-2016, 09:48 AM
To those who have no loyalties to either party, both are obviously broken. Why wouldn't one point that out?


Again, are the criticisms of one party illegit unless you equally criticize the other?

Chris
11-20-2016, 09:53 AM
The comparison is only natural.

But back to the broken Democrats, Robert Reich, The Democratic Party Lost Its Soul (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/11/20/the_democratic_party_lost_its_soul_its_time_to_win _it_back_132401.html)


...You might think this overwhelming drubbing would cause the Democratic party to reorganize itself into a very different party from the one it’s become – which is essentially a giant fundraising machine, too often reflecting the goals and values of the moneyed interests that make up the bulk of its funding.
Don’t bet on it.

For one thing, many vested interests don’t want the Democratic party to change. Most of the money it raises ends up in the pockets of political consultants, pollsters, strategists, lawyers, advertising consultants and advertisers themselves, many of whom have become rich off the current arrangement. They naturally want to keep it.

...So what we now have is a Democratic party that has been repudiated at the polls, headed by a Democratic National Committee that has become irrelevant at best, run part-time by a series of insider politicians. It has no deep or broad-based grass-roots, no capacity for mobilizing vast numbers of people to take any action other than donate money, no visibility between elections, no ongoing activism....

Tahuyaman
11-20-2016, 09:56 AM
Clearly our problems aren't all on the two political parties themselves.

Millions of people want either party to be in complete lock-step with their individual views, even if those views are inconsistent and continually in a state of flux.

Chris
11-20-2016, 10:05 AM
Most of our problems have nothing to do with parties, nor the government, except we keep turning there for solutions.

Ravens Fan
11-20-2016, 10:53 AM
Again, are the criticisms of one party illegit unless you equally criticize the other?
Not at all.

Peter1469
11-20-2016, 11:34 AM
This is what Bannon says of the new Republican Party in Steve Bannon: 'Darkness is good' (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/18/politics/steve-bannon-donald-trump-hollywood-reporter-interview/):



That's quite liberal. Trump ran left of Clinton.

He is correct. Unfettered globalism hurts Americans.

Peter1469
11-20-2016, 11:36 AM
Again, are the criticisms of one party illegit unless you equally criticize the other?

No. I criticized the Dems far more than the GOP in this election cycle because I hate the Clinton crime family.

Yet the dim here claimed that = supporting Trump. Is that not silly? Public schools I assume.

MisterVeritis
11-20-2016, 11:45 AM
I think it is obvious that the Republican party is just as broken. I mean, the establishment may be falling in line behind him now, but the mere fact that Trump was on the ticket shows that things are not good in the GOP either.
Trump's ability to not only be a candidate in the Republican Primary contest but to also prevail against the Establishment's "Best and Brightest" shows that things are good enough in the Republican party. The things that are wrong in the nation can be repaired with an Article V convention of states to propose amendments.

This is a simple, reasonable, Constitutional method to solve our problems. Contact your state legislators and ask them to take it up and pass a bill. Now is the time and we are the people who can make this happen.

Ravens Fan
11-20-2016, 11:48 AM
Trump's ability to not only be a candidate in the Republican Primary contest but to also prevail against the Establishment's "Best and Brightest" shows that things are good enough in the Republican party. The things that are wrong in the nation can be repaired with an Article V convention of states to propose amendments.

This is a simple, reasonable, Constitutional method to solve our problems. Contact your state legislators and ask them to take it up and pass a bill. Now is the time and we are the people who can make this happen.

To me it showed that registered Republicans are sick of the party elites, and wanted change. Trump did not win because of the GOP, but despite them.

Tahuyaman
11-20-2016, 11:48 AM
No. I criticized the Dems far more than the GOP in this election cycle because I hate the Clinton crime family.

Yet the dim here claimed that = supporting Trump. Is that not silly? Public schools I assume.

Simple minded people make stupid assumption. Nothing new there.

MisterVeritis
11-20-2016, 11:49 AM
To me it showed that registered Republicans are sick of the party elites, and wanted change. Trump did not win because of the GOP, but despite them.
...and?

Ravens Fan
11-20-2016, 11:52 AM
...and?

And, that shows that things are not "good enough" in the Republican party. Both parties need to do some serious soul searching if they want to remain the "major" parties in America, IMO.
...but they won't.

Chris
11-20-2016, 11:53 AM
He is correct. Unfettered globalism hurts Americans.

Right, but nationalism of the sort he envisions, basically isolationism, won't solve anything,

Chris
11-20-2016, 11:54 AM
Trump's ability to not only be a candidate in the Republican Primary contest but to also prevail against the Establishment's "Best and Brightest" shows that things are good enough in the Republican party. The things that are wrong in the nation can be repaired with an Article V convention of states to propose amendments.

This is a simple, reasonable, Constitutional method to solve our problems. Contact your state legislators and ask them to take it up and pass a bill. Now is the time and we are the people who can make this happen.


Trump ran against the Party. Republicans will see that soon enough.

MisterVeritis
11-20-2016, 12:00 PM
And, that shows that things are not "good enough" in the Republican party. Both parties need to do some serious soul searching if they want to remain the "major" parties in America, IMO.
...but they won't.
Things in the Republican party were good enough to elect Trump. Trump's actions will change the party despite the party's wishes. Bannon and Gingrich can provide the "soul searching" while the operators get to work solving immediate problems.

So I get the president I wanted and you will get your wish.

MisterVeritis
11-20-2016, 12:02 PM
Trump ran against the Party. Republicans will see that soon enough.
No. Trump ran against the establishment elites.

I distrust your instincts on just about everything. You are an outsider pretending you have a better vantage point. If you were a different person it might even be true.

Peter1469
11-20-2016, 12:05 PM
Trump's ability to not only be a candidate in the Republican Primary contest but to also prevail against the Establishment's "Best and Brightest" shows that things are good enough in the Republican party. The things that are wrong in the nation can be repaired with an Article V convention of states to propose amendments.

This is a simple, reasonable, Constitutional method to solve our problems. Contact your state legislators and ask them to take it up and pass a bill. Now is the time and we are the people who can make this happen.

What stops them from tossing the Constitution into the trash and starting over, like our Founders did?

Are you willing to take that risk? We could end up with a totalitarian nanny state.

Peter1469
11-20-2016, 12:05 PM
Simple minded people make stupid assumption. Nothing new there.


Yes, you are correct.

MisterVeritis
11-20-2016, 12:07 PM
What stops them from tossing the Constitution into the trash and starting over, like our Founders did?
It requires 38 states to ratify the results.


Are you willing to take that risk? We could end up with a totalitarian nanny state.
Why are you a coward in this instance?

Peter1469
11-20-2016, 12:08 PM
Right, but nationalism of the sort he envisions, basically isolationism, won't solve anything,


What makes you think he is an isolationist?

There is a middle ground between unfettered free trade (which isn't truly fee or fair) and isolationism.

Peter1469
11-20-2016, 12:10 PM
It requires 38 states to ratify the results.


Why are you a coward in this instance?


I think the majority are takers. If we open the Constitution up for renewal they will go totalitarian.

I would prefer to just follow our Constitution as made. It works fine if you actually follow it.

MisterVeritis
11-20-2016, 01:24 PM
I think the majority are takers. If we open the Constitution up for renewal they will go totalitarian.
I would prefer to just follow our Constitution as made. It works fine if you actually follow it.
We have tyranny today. The executive branch creates more laws than the legislature. The Constitution needs specific teeth to prevent evil people from doing what evil people do. The Constitution is under attack every day in the Executive branch. It is under attack in every legislative session as well as every time the courts convene.

It is time to support and defend the Constitution against its domestic enemies. An Article V convention of states is the only Constitutional way that can work.

stjames1_53
11-20-2016, 06:39 PM
We have tyranny today. The executive branch creates more laws than the legislature. The Constitution needs specific teeth to prevent evil people from doing what evil people do. The Constitution is under attack every day in the Executive branch. It is under attack in every legislative session as well as every time the courts convene.

It is time to support and defend the Constitution against its domestic enemies. An Article V convention of states is the only Constitutional way that can work.
the Three boxes of Justice:
Ballot Box
Jury Box
Cartridge Box

Bethere
11-20-2016, 06:41 PM
the Three boxes of Justice:
Ballot Box
Jury Box
Cartridge Box

The primary source of Republican diplomas: Cracker Jack box.

MisterVeritis
11-20-2016, 07:06 PM
the Three boxes of Justice:Ballot BoxJury Box
Cartridge Box
only armed insurrection can solve the problems we fail to use the Constitution to address. Ballot and jury will not and cannot.

Bethere
11-20-2016, 07:09 PM
only armed insurrection can solve the problems we fail to use the Constitution to address. Ballot and jury will not and cannot.

Wow.

Boris The Animal
11-20-2016, 09:09 PM
Democrats Blaming Everyone Except Themselves


Honestly, why would anyone expect them to change their stripes now? This has been their Modus Operandi since the Reagan era. After all, that is when the Democratic Party started to become a conglomeration of all the far left wing factions and various victim groups in American society.Actually, it was well before then, with George McGovern. They got lucky with Carter because of the backlash from Watergate. So here is what I see. Democrats are an entitled lot. They think America OWES it to them for all the prosperity resulting from the momentum after WWII, and fail to realize that even that momentum will fizzle out. I noticed Democrats started becoming seriously unglued not in 2000, but in 1994 when they lost their 50 year stranglehold on the House. And what have they done? Obstruct, Obfuscate, and be general pains in the ass.

Peter1469
11-20-2016, 09:22 PM
The primary source of Republican diplomas: Cracker Jack box.

I left the GOP because they were spending like drunken democrats. But this statement is stupid.

Boris The Animal
11-20-2016, 09:33 PM
I left the GOP because they were spending like drunken democrats. But this statement is stupid.Especially considering when you have Condi Rice who is an accomplished pianist and NFL expert, for example. I would love to have seen either her or Susanna Martinez of NM run against HilLIARy.

valley ranch
11-20-2016, 09:40 PM
HiLLARy who's that? Just kidding~I think they should try her again! Heard her described as the most qualified.

resister
11-20-2016, 09:50 PM
HiLLARy who's that? Just kidding~I think they should try her again! Heard her described as the most qualified.
I'm still rootin 4 her as the captain of the WOmans softball team in a federal joint

donttread
11-21-2016, 06:12 AM
I think it is obvious that the Republican party is just as broken. I mean, the establishment may be falling in line behind him now, but the mere fact that Trump was on the ticket shows that things are not good in the GOP either.

Which is a good thing. For freedom to live the donkephant ( as we currently know it) must die.

donttread
11-21-2016, 06:16 AM
We have tyranny today. The executive branch creates more laws than the legislature. The Constitution needs specific teeth to prevent evil people from doing what evil people do. The Constitution is under attack every day in the Executive branch. It is under attack in every legislative session as well as every time the courts convene.

It is time to support and defend the Constitution against its domestic enemies. An Article V convention of states is the only Constitutional way that can work.

Yes, but Pete's right, the people are not ready for a re-write simply because they don't understand . Once they understand they should help us enforce the Constitution as is , perhaps with an amendment or two and return the feds to a limited government. Maybe not all the way back to the enumeraed powers, but a lot more limited than the bigdaddy.gov we have today.

donttread
11-21-2016, 06:25 AM
Clearly our problems aren't all on the two political parties themselves.

Millions of people want either party to be in complete lock-step with their individual views, even if those views are inconsistent and continually in a state of flux.

Great point. The parties are masters at manipulation but people have the gift of deep and abstract thought to understand they are being manipulted. The MSM may be trying to sell one party over the other or as I believe control elections to sell air time and ratings, but people can seek out multiple news sources and facts via other media. In this election the people rejected the usual and along with it much of that manipulation and media hype. But they have a long way to go before we can make America viable in the long term, much less "great again" . The danger is that they are lulled to sleep by this election and return to being sheep when they vote in local, state and congressional races over the next 4 years. Somehow we must keep them involved and help them realize that the means to taking money out of politics is , quite literally, at their finger tips and that politics as usual must be defeated at every level of government.

donttread
11-21-2016, 06:26 AM
Most of our problems have nothing to do with parties, nor the government, except we keep turning there for solutions.


Yes and no. Certainly the people are ultimately responsible, but to do their job these parties must go and this government must be down sized.

Captain Obvious
11-21-2016, 11:29 AM
Establishment progressives are arrogant assholes

patrickt
11-21-2016, 08:34 PM
Democrats have no sense of responsibility for anything. That's why they can't possibly have a sense of shame.

resister
11-21-2016, 08:37 PM
Establishment progressives are arrogant assholes
Understatement of the decade

donttread
11-22-2016, 06:46 AM
Establishment progressives are arrogant assholes

That applies to the entire establishment.