Trump proposes Flag Burning laws

[Amadeus]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/loss-of-citizenship-or-year-in-jail-trump-incredibly-says-burning-flag-must-have-consequences/



“Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag,” Trump wrote. “[I]f they do, there must be consequences – perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!”
I had to read the Twitter handle six times to make sure that I was not reading a parody account. Trump will take the Oath of Office in 51 days.


Trump isn't in office yet, and he already proposes anti-Constitutional laws.

[stjames1_53]

http://tse2.explicit.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M6cea58c122a865a823d6e12f9edb7071o0&w=181&h=164&c=7&rs=1&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.1

[FindersKeepers]

Trump isn't in office yet, and he already proposes anti-Constitutional laws.

Then, he's showing his presidential aptitude.

Obama tried to slip numerous unconstitutional policies in and had to be slapped down more than once by SCOTUS.

It's going to take Trump awhile to understand the process of our law -- what is and what isn't constitutional. Politics and the law are not his career choices...remember? And then, if he's like Obama, he'll try to shove his policies down our throat anyway.

That's why we have SCOTUS.

[Standing Wolf]

FK, the average half-bright high school student knows that flag burning - as long as it's your own flag and you're not disturbing the peace or violating any fire department ordinances - is not illegal. Trump parrots whatever silly, uninformed sentiment he thinks the people around him want to hear at the moment. My guess would be that we're pretty much in for four years of that kind of perverse and pointless nonsense.

[DGUtley]

That is why we have SCOTUS, but this law would be unconstitutional. Again, it is the most repugnant / distasteful of speech that is the most deserving of protection. Trump needs to get to work rather than pander to his base.

[Amadeus]

Obama tried to slip numerous unconstitutional policies in and had to be slapped down more than once by SCOTUS.

I guess the difference is that Obama consulted his team of lawyers before he proposed his laws. There was a legitimate case to make. Trump just blatantly says he's against the First Amendment.


That's why we have SCOTUS.

And if Trump packs the SCOTUS the same way he does his cabinet, it won't be much of an obstacle.

[Amadeus]

Again, it is the most repugnant / distasteful of speech that is the most deserving of protection. Trump needs to get to work rather than pander to his base.
Absolutely. What's telling is that Trump picks flag burning, but not Nazi Saluting his presidency, to get upset about.

[stjames1_53]

I guess the difference is that Obama consulted his team of lawyers before he proposed his laws. There was a legitimate case to make. Trump just blatantly says he's against the First Amendment.



And if Trump packs the SCOTUS the same way he does his cabinet, it won't be much of an obstacle.

but you're ok with Hillary, the head SoS salesman, to pack the court.....wonder why that is

[DGUtley]

I guess the difference is that Obama consulted his team of lawyers before he proposed his laws. There was a legitimate case to make. Trump just blatantly says he's against the First Amendment.
Respectfully, you're wrong. His lawyers told him he couldn't do it, he said repeatedly that he couldn't do it, but he did it anyways. He's equally as despicable, constitutionally.

And if Trump packs the SCOTUS the same way he does his cabinet, it won't be much of an obstacle.

C'mon, it'd take an earth-shaking abandonment of stare decisisto get there. It's not going to happen. Moreover, Obama stacked the Court with left wing idealogues. It's what they do.

[Amadeus]

but you're ok with Hillary, the head SoS salesman, to pack the court.....wonder why that is
I didn't support Hillary, but she would pick centrist judges (being a centrist herself), not fringe conservative activists like Ted Cruz.

[DGUtley]

Absolutely. What's telling is that Trump picks flag burning, but not Nazi Saluting his presidency, to get upset about.

How many times does someone have to disavow something to make you happy?

[DGUtley]

I didn't support Hillary, but she would pick centrist judges (being a centrist herself), not fringe conservative activists like Ted Cruz.

Again, respectfully, you're wrong. Hillary had indicated her intent to appoint judges that would overturn Heller and support opening the border. Those are fringe left-wing opinions. It was an easy decision for some of us. On that issue alone.

[stjames1_53]

How many times does someone have to disavow something to make you happy?

he's a democrat...and wont be happy until we all live under the thumb of BIG government.............you know.........a collectivist

[Amadeus]

Respectfully, you're wrong. His lawyers told him he couldn't do it, he said repeatedly that he couldn't do it, but he did it anyways. He's equally as despicable, constitutionally.

What did he propose that was equally egregious compare to criminalizing freedom of expression? I am genuinely asking out of curiosity.

C'mon, it'd take an earth-shaking abandonment of stare decisis to get there. It's not going to happen. Moreover, Obama stacked the Court with left wing idealogues. It's what they do.

Do you believe that Kagan and Sotomoyer were equal to Ted Cruz on their end of the ideological spectrum?

[Amadeus]

How many times does someone have to disavow something to make you happy?
He has to tweet about it. Then you know he takes it seriously.

[Amadeus]

he's a democrat...and wont be happy until we all live under the thumb of BIG government.............you know.........a collectivist

I'm not a Democrat and I didn't support Hillary. But you can keep saying it if it makes you feel better.

[Amadeus]

Again, respectfully, you're wrong. Hillary had indicated her intent to appoint judges that would overturn Heller and support opening the border. Those are fringe left-wing opinions. It was an easy decision for some of us. On that issue alone.
Where did she propose nominating judges on the basis of supporting Heller and opening the border? Again, genuinely asking, I looked but couldn't find it. I just know that Hillary has generally been center or center-right in her political ideology, except when she's pandering or triangulating.

[Cigar]

FK, the average half-bright high school student knows that flag burning - as long as it's your own flag and you're not disturbing the peace or violating any fire department ordinances - is not illegal. Trump parrots whatever silly, uninformed sentiment he thinks the people around him want to hear at the moment. My guess would be that we're pretty much in for four years of that kind of perverse and pointless nonsense.

Trump leaves Military Briefings to his VP but stay's up nights worrying and Tweeting about this BS. :rollseyes:

[DGUtley]

What did he propose that was equally egregious compare to criminalizing freedom of expression? I am genuinely asking out of curiosity.

Oh, where do I start, and in no particular order.

1. DOMA. I was personally against DOMA. However, Obama swore to uphold the laws of this country. He refused to uphold DOMA -- specifically abandoned defense of same. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with DOMA, that's not his role, nor that of the Executive Branch, that's the role of the Judiciary -- again, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with it. Massive violation of separation of powers. Massive. Imagine if the next president decides on her own not to enforce certain laws - she took an oath. Bad precedent. Very very bad, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the law, we are a nation of laws. My liberal friends that are lawyers cringed at what he did.

2. DACA. He said many times (like 22 or something) that he didn't have the legal authority to grant protection to those dreamers, said his lawyers had told him so. Yet, after the R's insisted on securing the border first, he went ahead and did it. Massive violation of separation of powers. Massive. Imagine if the next president decides on her own to use her pen after not getting her way with congress. Bad precedent. Very bad.

Those are two that come to mind and in my opinion far exceed what Trump said because they undermine the entire foundation of our separation of powers system.


Do you believe that Kagan and Sotomoyer were equal to Ted Cruz on their end of the ideological spectrum?

Yes. Several of their opinions are intellectually dishonest. For example, the last Obamacare decision was so intellectually dishonest and partisan / ideology based. Yes, we agree that it is written like the state say but it doesn't work if we read it that way. Well, it's not the Court's job to make a statute work. I have spoken to many judges (state and federal) and they just gasped at that reasoning. You see, in my business, you can disagree with a decision but understand how they got there.

Go and look at Scalia's last dissent. It is inconceivable and intellectually dishonest that those two got there, but they did.

[DGUtley]

Where did she propose nominating judges on the basis of supporting Heller and opening the border? Again, genuinely asking, I looked but couldn't find it. I just know that Hillary has generally been center or center-right in her political ideology, except when she's pandering or triangulating.

I've read it in her speeches and previously posted both on here.

[Amadeus]

1. DOMA. I was personally against DOMA. However, Obama swore to uphold the laws of this country. He refused to uphold DOMA -- specifically abandoned defense of same. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with DOMA, that's not his role, nor that of the Executive Branch, that's the role of the Judiciary -- again, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with it. Massive violation of separation of powers. Massive. Imagine if the next president decides on her own not to enforce certain laws - she took an oath. Bad precedent. Very very bad, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the law, we are a nation of laws. My liberal friends that are lawyers cringed at what he did.
2. DACA. He said many times (like 22 or something) that he didn't have the legal authority to grant protection to those dreamers, said his lawyers had told him so. Yet, after the R's insisted on securing the border first, he went ahead and did it. Massive violation of separation of powers. Massive. Imagine if the next president decides on her own to use her pen after not getting her way with congress. Bad precedent. Very bad.
You believe that those were as egregious, constitutionally, as proposing to jail or strip citizenship away from Flag Burners? Seems to me that the degree of constitutional transgression is a bit off...

[Amadeus]

I've read it in her speeches and previously posted both on here.
I guess I'll have to take your word for it because I can find it nowhere on the Internets.

[Cigar]

Early Morning Smell of Fascism - Trump Tweets Citizenship Threat for Flag Burning




Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 6:55 AM - 29 Nov 2016
Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cybn6KnXcAA9GWa.jpg


Steve Benen ‏@stevebenen 35m35 minutes ago
If Trump disagrees with your political speech, the president-elect is prepared to possibly revoke your citizenship. That's ... different.

[Cigar]

Now our ignorant Pres-Elect says people who burn flag should go to jail or lose citienship!..



Donny boy is up early once again spouting off his stupidity!


Tweet:
David Corn ‏@DavidCornDC 25m25 minutes ago

David Corn Retweeted Donald J. Trump

You really don't take this new job seriously, do you?




Donald J. Trump Verified account
‏@realDonaldTrump

Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!


5:55 AM - 29 Nov 2016
0 replies 14,149 retweets 38,817 likes

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/803567993036754944

[MisterVeritis]

I didn't support Hillary, but she would pick centrist judges (being a centrist herself), not fringe conservative activists like Ted Cruz.
I don't like you but I LOVE your sense of humor.

[stjames1_53]

You believe that those were as egregious, constitutionally, as proposing to jail or strip citizenship away from Flag Burners? Seems to me that the degree of constitutional transgression is a bit off...
Trump has not said anyone would be tried or hung for this act. He just stated his opinion................... just like you ............

[Amadeus]

Trump has not said anyone would be tried or hung for this act. He just stated his opinion................... just like you ............

I'm equal to the president. Somehow I don't feel flattered.

[stjames1_53]

I'm equal to the president. Somehow I don't feel flattered.

you should strive harder. One day, when you're all growed up and stuff, you might believe you can run for prez

[Amadeus]

you should strive harder. One day, when you're all growed up and stuff, you might believe you can run for prez
I don't believe I could be president, but I believe that I could throw a dart into a condemned crack house and hit a better president than Trump.

[DGUtley]

You believe that those were as egregious, constitutionally, as proposing to jail or strip citizenship away from Flag Burners? Seems to me that the degree of constitutional transgression is a bit off...

I disagree. The two examples I cited undermine the very foundations of our government. You and I both know that he'll never ban flag burning; in fact the Executive doesn't make the laws -- but if he did it'd be struck. Think big picture.

[Amadeus]

I disagree. The two examples I cited undermine the very foundations of our government. You and I both know that he'll never ban flag burning; in fact the Executive doesn't make the laws -- but if he did it'd be struck. Think big picture.
You make a fair argument. Ignore the baboon punching the tree, focus on the termites eating it from the inside. Or something along those lines.

[FindersKeepers]

I guess the difference is that Obama consulted his team of lawyers before he proposed his laws. There was a legitimate case to make. Trump just blatantly says he's against the First Amendment.
And if Trump packs the SCOTUS the same way he does his cabinet, it won't be much of an obstacle.

There's really no difference. Obama attempted it -- Trump will probably attempt it and SCOTUS did/and will shoot both of them down.

Even if Trump packs SCOTUS, those who sit on the bench are sworn to uphold the Constitution. You're assuming the Court will be full of activist judges. That's unlikely.

[Subdermal]

That is why we have SCOTUS, but this law would be unconstitutional. Again, it is the most repugnant / distasteful of speech that is the most deserving of protection. Trump needs to get to work rather than pander to his base.
It is not speech. It is an act.

[resister]

It is not speech. It is an act.
I have never seen it in person.The lod country song"the fighting side of me" comes to mind

[Green Arrow]

It is not speech. It is an act.

And that act is constitutional.

[Amadeus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDF321wWUms

[Cletus]

FK, the average half-bright high school student knows that flag burning - as long as it's your own flag and you're not disturbing the peace or violating any fire department ordinances - is not illegal. Trump parrots whatever silly, uninformed sentiment he thinks the people around him want to hear at the moment. My guess would be that we're pretty much in for four years of that kind of perverse and pointless nonsense.

There is actually a great deal of anti flag burning sentiment in the country. It may not be illegal (I agree with the Court on that), but it is despicable and anyone who does it needs his ass severely kicked. Maybe Trump could float a law before Congress, not making it illegal to burn the flag but granting immunity to anyone who stomps a mudhole in a flag burner.

Are we going to have to put up with 4 years of you people making fools of yourself with your petty comments every time Trump says anything? Where were you when Obama was pushing the ACA, a law about as unconstitutional as you can get or when the Supreme bowed before the great unwashed masses and declared same sex marriages legal regardless of what the various state legislatures said? Your 14th Amendment argument is bullshit not worthy of anyone educated past the 4th grade.

[Amadeus]

Trump also said during the campaign that everyone would be forced to say Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays. I can't wait until Christmas.

[Green Arrow]

There is actually a great deal of anti flag burning sentiment in the country. It may not be illegal (I agree with the Court on that), but it is despicable and anyone who does it needs his ass severely kicked. Maybe Trump could float a law before Congress, not making it illegal to burn the flag but granting immunity to anyone who stomps a mudhole in a flag burner.
That would be assault, which should always be illegal. If you aren't mature enough to control yourself rather than reacting like an animal to things you don't like, don't look to our legal system to tell you that is acceptable.

[Cletus]

That would be assault, which should always be illegal. If you aren't mature enough to control yourself rather than reacting like an animal to things you don't like, don't look to our legal system to tell you that is acceptable.

Okay, I keep screwing up and assuming I am dealing with adults here.

[del]

http://tse2.explicit.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M6cea58c122a865a823d6e12f9edb7071o0&w=181&h=164&c=7&rs=1&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.1


call uber.

i'm sure they'll pick you up

[Green Arrow]

Okay, I keep screwing up and assuming I am dealing with adults here.

You want it to be legal to assault people that burn a piece of colored cloth, and you're suggesting other people are not acting like adults?

[MisterVeritis]

okay, i keep screwing up and assuming i am dealing with adults here.
lol.

[waltky]

Granny says, "Better still - deport dey's butts... Trump Suggests 'Loss of Citizenship or Year in Jail' for Burning American Flag November 29, 2016 - Shortly before 7 a.m. on Tuesday, President-elect Donald Trump tweeted, "Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!"
The only flag story in the news recently is the decision by Hampshire College in Massachusetts to stop flying the American flag after students allegedly burned a flag to protest Donald Trump's election victory. The Supreme Court ruled in 1969 that flag-burning is protected by the First Amendment. The Trump tweet proved once again the president-elect's ability to direct the content of cable news. MSNBC's "Morning Joe" and CNN's "New Day," for example, talked less about Mitt Romney as a possible secretary of state -- and infighting in the Trump campaign, focusing more on flag-burning and the First Amendment. Asked about the Trump tweet on "Morning Joe," Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said people don't burn flags where he comes from even though "we have a First Amendment right." "We'll protect our First Amendment," he added. Rep. Sean Duffy (R-Wis.) told CNN's "New Day," "I think the court is probably right that we want to protect those people who want to protest....I'll disagree with Mr. Trump on that, and the court's probably right." Trump on Tuesday was meeting for a second time with 2012 Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, who is said to be under consideration for the secretary of state job. Trump also was meeting Tuesday with Sen. Bob Corker of Tennessee, another possible choice for the top diplomatic post. Trump met Monday with retired Gen. David Petraeus. http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cnsnewscom-staff/trump-suggests-loss-citizenship-or-year-jail-burning-american-flag

[resister]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/loss-of-citizenship-or-year-in-jail-trump-incredibly-says-burning-flag-must-have-consequences/




Trump isn't in office yet, and he already proposes anti-Constitutional laws.
Hillary did not just tweet about this, she proposed legislation.What ya got ta say now???

[Green Arrow]

Hillary did not just tweet about this, she proposed legislation.What ya got ta say now???

Hillary is not about to become president.

[MisterVeritis]

Hillary is not about to become president.
This is a cause for celebration.

[stjames1_53]

Hillary is not about to become president.

some of these fools in here are convinced otherwise..........

[Safety]

You want it to be legal to assault people that burn a piece of colored cloth, and you're suggesting other people are not acting like adults?

Rasins.

[Cletus]

You want it to be legal to assault people that burn a piece of colored cloth, and you're suggesting other people are not acting like adults?

It is more than a piece of colored cloth to those who understand the symbolism it contains. That is your problem. You have never been in an environment other than the one in which you can take the things the flag stands for for granted.

The flag is more than a "piece of colored cloth". Maybe when you mature and get a few miles behind you, you will come to understand that... or maybe you will just remain clueless.

[Green Arrow]

It is more than a piece of colored cloth to those who understand the symbolism it contains. That is your problem. You have never been in an environment other than the one in which you can take the things the flag stands for for granted.

The flag is more than a "piece of colored cloth". Maybe when you mature and get a few miles behind you, you will come to understand that... or maybe you will just remain clueless.
You are correct, it is a symbol. Made of colored cloth. It won't protect you or me. It could disappear tomorrow and we would still be here, along with this nation. We'd just make a new piece of colored cloth to symbolize us.

When you put that cloth above living, breathing human beings, you become a religious zealot.

[stjames1_53]

It is more than a piece of colored cloth to those who understand the symbolism it contains. That is your problem. You have never been in an environment other than the one in which you can take the things the flag stands for for granted.

The flag is more than a "piece of colored cloth". Maybe when you mature and get a few miles behind you, you will come to understand that... or maybe you will just remain clueless.

and there it is! none of these yahoos have ever seen combat and never will...unless they fight their moms about staying at home.

[stjames1_53]

You are correct, it is a symbol. Made of colored cloth. It won't protect you or me. It could disappear tomorrow and we would still be here, along with this nation. We'd just make a new piece of colored cloth to symbolize us.

When you put that cloth above living, breathing human beings, you become a religious zealot.
clueless...............you show the same respect for our Constitution. Bravo!!

[Green Arrow]

clueless...............you show the same respect for our Constitution. Bravo!!
I do respect the constitution, actually. Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

[Cletus]

You are correct, it is a symbol. Made of colored cloth. It won't protect you or me. It could disappear tomorrow and we would still be here, along with this nation. We'd just make a new piece of colored cloth to symbolize us.

When you put that cloth above living, breathing human beings, you become a religious zealot.

Okay, you still don't get it so I will make this short and move on.

The flag is not supposed to protect us. In fact, it is expected to raise the ire of many around the world and bring hope to many, many others. The flag is us. It says "We are Americans and this is what we stand for and believe in, whether you like it or not." Puritry, innocence, hardiness, valor, vigilance, perseverance, justice, and unity... these things identify us as a People. To some, that is like waving red flag in front of a bull. To many more, it means the good guys are here... the guys who will go ratholes like Somalia to provide food to the starving, even at the risk of their own, the guys who will send their sons and daughters all over the world to help those who wish to cast off their oppressors so they can decide their own futures, the guys who will in a heartbeat, send food and medical supplies and engineers into countries that have been our traditional enemies to help them rescue their people and rebuild after a natural catastrophe.

It has been said that for those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible. You will either figure it out on your own... or you won't.

I understand that flag burning is a protected form of political expression and I believe it should be. I would not hesitate to protect the right of someone to burn his flag. However, I can also sympathize with those who see it as an egregious act, something that falls into the category of "Fighting Words", so although I would grit my teeth and stand by while someone burned the flag in front of me, if someone laid him out and stomped a mudhole in him for doing so, I would have a VERY hard time convicting him if I sat on his jury.

[MisterVeritis]

I understand that flag burning is a protected form of political expression and I believe it should be. I would not hesitate to protect the right of someone to burn his flag. However, I can also sympathize with those who see it as an egregious act, something that falls into the category of "Fighting Words", so although I would grit my teeth and stand by while someone burned the flag in front of me, if someone laid him out and stomped a mudhole in him for doing so, I would have a VERY hard time convicting him if I sat on his jury.
It is because the flag is a symbol of our liberties I would push for the greatest possible punishment for someone who assaults another for flag burning. Isn't it interesting how we can begin with similar beliefs and yet come to different conclusions?

[Cletus]

It is because the flag is a symbol of our liberties I would push for the greatest possible punishment for someone who assaults another for flag burning. Isn't it interesting how we can begin with similar beliefs and yet come to different conclusions?

It is, and I do understand the importance of defending the right to express yourself even by burning the flag.

Here is my take. The First Amendment protects the flag burner from punitive actions taken by government, but actions have consequences and if one of those consequences is that what you are doing is considered so insulting and degrading by someone who truly believes in this nation and the ideals upon which it was founded and it pisses them off so bad, it results in an ass kicking, that is pretty much on you. You should have weighed the possible consequences before you stepped into the bull ring and started waving your cape.

[Subdermal]

Trump also said during the campaign that everyone would be forced to say Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays. I can't wait until Christmas.
Uh huh.

Christmas already came, bubba. You got coal.

[stjames1_53]

I do respect the constitution, actually. Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

really.................I'm impressed.............the flag is codified in the Constitution........huh

[stjames1_53]

It is, and I do understand the importance of defending the right to express yourself even by burning the flag.

Here is my take. The First Amendment protects the flag burner from punitive actions taken by government, but actions have consequences and if one of those consequences is that what you are doing is considered so insulting and degrading by someone who truly believes in this nation and the ideals upon which it was founded and it pisses them off so bad, it results in an ass kicking, that is pretty much on you. You should have weighed the possible consequences before you stepped into the bull ring and started waving your cape.

fu**ing bravo...............
Liberals are trying to do away with consequences.............

[resister]

It is, and I do understand the importance of defending the right to express yourself even by burning the flag.

Here is my take. The First Amendment protects the flag burner from punitive actions taken by government, but actions have consequences and if one of those consequences is that what you are doing is considered so insulting and degrading by someone who truly believes in this nation and the ideals upon which it was founded and it pisses them off so bad, it results in an ass kicking, that is pretty much on you. You should have weighed the possible consequences before you stepped into the bull ring and started waving your cape.
Very well spoken.

[MisterVeritis]

It is, and I do understand the importance of defending the right to express yourself even by burning the flag.

Here is my take. The First Amendment protects the flag burner from punitive actions taken by government, but actions have consequences and if one of those consequences is that what you are doing is considered so insulting and degrading by someone who truly believes in this nation and the ideals upon which it was founded and it pisses them off so bad, it results in an ass kicking, that is pretty much on you. You should have weighed the possible consequences before you stepped into the bull ring and started waving your cape.
We have laws to punish assault. The flag burner has done nothing wrong. The one who assaults the flag burner is a common criminal. I shall assume the one who is doing the assaulting is a big, bad tough guy. Given that is seems reasonable to respond with gunfire until the situation resolves itself.

[resister]

We have laws to punish assault. The flag burner has done nothing wrong. The one who assaults the flag burner is a common criminal. I shall assume the one who is doing the assaulting is a big, bad tough guy. Given that is seems reasonable to respond with gunfire until the situation resolves itself.
Most flag burners don't have guns.Guns are an American tradition.Some thing they are not big on

[Standing Wolf]

Most flag burners don't have guns.Guns are an American tradition.Some thing they are not big on
If someone burning a flag did have a gun, and used it to defend his or her life from an attacker, where would your sympathies lie then?

[MisterVeritis]

Most flag burners don't have guns.Guns are an American tradition.Some thing they are not big on
How will you know until you land your first blow? The whole point of a concealed weapon is to keep it concealed until it is time to use it to put you on the ground.

The flag is a symbol. Burning the flag is protected political speech. You have gone down a wrong path and fallen into a hole.

[resister]

If someone burning a flag did have a gun, and used it to defend his or her life from an attacker, where would your sympathies lie then?

I'd say they both have it coming

[Cigar]

Relax Folks ... it's Just a Flag ... you know, a symbol ... :laugh:

[resister]

How will you know until you land your first blow? The whole point of a concealed weapon is to keep it concealed until it is time to use it to put you on the ground.

The flag is a symbol. Burning the flag is protected political speech. You have gone down a wrong path and fallen into a hole.
Why does everyone keep calling action "speech"?

[Standing Wolf]

Why does everyone keep calling action "speech"?

It's just one of those self-centered mimes.

[Cigar]

Why does everyone keep calling action "speech"?

Speech or Action?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e7/74/e6/e774e6068a54d81fdfc88152b09010c1.jpg (https://www.pinterest.com/jp2917/famous-finger/)

[Cigar]

https://s14.postimg.org/6a6srotf5/crmlu161130.gif

[resister]

Speech or Action?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e7/74/e6/e774e6068a54d81fdfc88152b09010c1.jpg (https://www.pinterest.com/jp2917/famous-finger/)
That would be action.Speech is done with a mouth

[Subdermal]

Speech or Action?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e7/74/e6/e774e6068a54d81fdfc88152b09010c1.jpg (https://www.pinterest.com/jp2917/famous-finger/)
Unfortunately, a man of your intellect considers that speech.

[Standing Wolf]

https://englishbakery.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/sign-language.jpg

[resister]

https://englishbakery.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/sign-language.jpg
Interestingly, long term inmates have there own system.Lots of time on their hands(pun intended)

[Tahuyaman]

I didn't support Hillary, but she would pick centrist judges (being a centrist herself), not fringe conservative activists like Ted Cruz.


I'm always amused by liberals unwilling to admit that they are a liberal. That's why they tried to deceive people by becoming "progressives" or "moderates" now "centrists".

[resister]

I'm always amused by liberals unwilling to admit that they are a liberal. That's why they tried to deceive people by becoming "progressives" or "moderates" now "centrists".
Call poop whatever name you will.The stink of s*it is ever present

[Amadeus]

I'm always amused by liberals unwilling to admit that they are a liberal. That's why they tried to deceive people by becoming "progressives" or "moderates" now "centrists".
I'm amused that people think that Hillary is liberal or even that progressive. It shows how politically naive and inexperienced they are. Hillary lost in large part because liberals didn't vote for her, not because she was too liberal.

Jon Pie got it right.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

[Standing Wolf]

I'm always amused by liberals unwilling to admit that they are a liberal. That's why they tried to deceive people by becoming "progressives" or "moderates" now "centrists".

Many people begin to disassociate themselves from a label when it has been unrelentingly vilified to the point that it is no longer an apt description of what a person believes - it has too many bad connotations in the mind of the hearer, thanks to the folks who try to connect it with every bad thing that has ever happened on the planet. Yes, "Liberal" is a bad word in many places, as is "Conservative". It used to be a badge of honor for a political leader to be considered a "Moderate" - now even that designation is targeted by those who - mistakenly - associate it with someone who is "wishy-washy" or "on the fence". The C and L words have become effectively useless in terms of conveying what an individual's views are; political discourse would be elevated about three levels if their use was discontinued until further notice.

[resister]

Like a failed company incorparateing under a new moniker.Very tricky

[Amadeus]

Like a failed company incorparateing under a new moniker.Very tricky

Reality itself has a liberal bias. You are more liberal than your parents, and they were more liberal than their parents. Hillary is barely progressive, she started her political activism as a Goldwater Republican, then became a conservative neo-liberal moderate, a hawk on foreign policy (rivaling Marco Rubio) and only in recent years (like the past 5-6 years) became 'liberal' on social issues. She championed DOMA.

[del]

It is, and I do understand the importance of defending the right to express yourself even by burning the flag.

Here is my take. The First Amendment protects the flag burner from punitive actions taken by government, but actions have consequences and if one of those consequences is that what you are doing is considered so insulting and degrading by someone who truly believes in this nation and the ideals upon which it was founded and it pisses them off so bad, it results in an ass kicking, that is pretty much on you. You should have weighed the possible consequences before you stepped into the bull ring and started waving your cape.


so in other words, laws are good as long as you agree with them.

sweet

[Standing Wolf]

Reality itself has a liberal bias. You are more liberal than your parents, and they were more liberal than their parents.

Imagine how horrifically "liberal" the average self-identified conservative would appear to someone visiting from 1850...or even 1900.

People who say they wish they lived "back in the good old days"...really don't, for the most part. Many of the personal freedoms that even the most Conservative American takes for granted today - freedoms mostly won in court by Liberal activists - did not exist a hundred, or in some cases even fifty, years ago.

[Green Arrow]

really.................I'm impressed.............the flag is codified in the Constitution........huh

Yes, it is. Brilliant observation.

[Green Arrow]

fu**ing bravo...............
Liberals are trying to do away with consequences.............

Standing up for the rule of law (what you all give lipservice to) is not "doing away with consequences." If you want to act like an unevolved ape and assault people for doing something you disagree with, fine, have fun. Just don't squeal when you get arrested and thrown in a cage for it, like other animals.

[Tahuyaman]

Many people begin to disassociate themselves from a label when it has been unrelentingly vilified to the point that it is no longer an apt description of what a person believes.....

How is that applicable to American liberalism. Where have liberal principles been wrongly or erroneously represented?

[resister]

How is that applicable to American liberalism. Where have liberal principles been wrongly or erroneously represented?
They earned every bit by there own actions

[Tahuyaman]

They earned every bit by there own actions


And they recognize that. That's why they call themselves progressives or moderates and now centrists. They know their positions are being rejected. They think the answer is to re-name them. They think people are stupid.

[Green Arrow]

And they recognize that. That's why they call themselves progressives or moderates and now centrists. They know their positions are being rejected. They think the answer is to re-name them. They think people are stupid.
Unfortunately plenty of people set out to prove it. Like claiming the designation of "progressive" is a new thing.

[Tahuyaman]

OK ..... That really cleared it up.

[MisterVeritis]

Why does everyone keep calling action "speech"?
A wide variety of things is considered to be speech. Sometimes useful fictions are necessary to secure liberty.

[stjames1_53]

Standing up for the rule of law (what you all give lipservice to) is not "doing away with consequences." If you want to act like an unevolved ape and assault people for doing something you disagree with, fine, have fun. Just don't squeal when you get arrested and thrown in a cage for it, like other animals.

bud, 63 and no record of any kind.................a low profile is no profile............a thing I learned early on.
You want attention, it's not hard to find someone who will pay attention. There are consequences for every action. There is no exception.
Another thing to remember, No good deed goes unpunished.
I get pulled over for the stupidest things and they always order me out of the car with my hands showing. They got their job. I always go empty handed. That's just pure smart. If I'm carrying, I let them know right off the git. either way, the first thing they see from me are empty hands. No misunderstanding. Zero consequences.
Now if I handled it differently, I think it would turn out similar to this event.
...and yes, they've had me on the roadside while "checking me out" then I get kicked lose no resisting, no mouthing off...these rules apply to everyone. RW LW, it doesn't matter. A cop tells you to lose it, you lose it. immediately. You know they will shoot at the blink of an eye.
Maybe it would have been smarter not to show the cops the gun in the first place....seems to be the smarter thing to do............

[patrickt]

Personally, I prefer for flag burning to not be illegal but for it to be socially unacceptable and rare. I do recognize how liberals enjoy both banning and mandating. You can't and you must. It's what Democrats live for.

[Green Arrow]

bud, 63 and no record of any kind.................a low profile is no profile............a thing I learned early on.
You want attention, it's not hard to find someone who will pay attention. There are consequences for every action. There is no exception.
Another thing to remember, No good deed goes unpunished.
I get pulled over for the stupidest things and they always order me out of the car with my hands showing. They got their job. I always go empty handed. That's just pure smart. If I'm carrying, I let them know right off the git. either way, the first thing they see from me are empty hands. No misunderstanding. Zero consequences.
Now if I handled it differently, I think it would turn out similar to this event.
...and yes, they've had me on the roadside while "checking me out" then I get kicked lose no resisting, no mouthing off...these rules apply to everyone. RW LW, it doesn't matter. A cop tells you to lose it, you lose it. immediately. You know they will shoot at the blink of an eye.
Maybe it would have been smarter not to show the cops the gun in the first place....seems to be the smarter thing to do............
This is about flag-burning, not cop-related shootings. I think you're in the wrong house.

[resister]

This is about flag-burning, not cop-related shootings. I think you're in the wrong house.Aint it great when someone admonishes someone and simultaneously does the very same thing?

[Green Arrow]

Aint it great when someone admonishes someone and simultaneously does the very same thing?

http://www.picz.ge/img/s3/1304/16/c/c04a40e915d6.gif

Are YOU in the right house?

[resister]

http://www.picz.ge/img/s3/1304/16/c/c04a40e915d6.gif

Are YOU in the right house?That post relates to op how?

[Green Arrow]

That post relates to op how?

It doesn't, it relates to your apparent confusion.

[resister]

It doesn't, it relates to your apparent confusion.
Well I'm in good company neither one of us is on the OP

[Green Arrow]

Alrighty then.

[Cletus]

We have laws to punish assault. The flag burner has done nothing wrong. The one who assaults the flag burner is a common criminal. I shall assume the one who is doing the assaulting is a big, bad tough guy. Given that is seems reasonable to respond with gunfire until the situation resolves itself.

I don't necessarily agree with that. He may not have the same legal protections as the flag burner, but that doesn't mean he is wrong.

Why would you assume the person defending the flag is a "big, bad tough guy"? He or she could be any American who is just fed up with denigrating his nation while making sure he benefits from everything this country has to offer. He or she would be almost certain there will be consequences for his actions, but is willing to face them (unlike the flag burner) because he believes his cause is just.

Yeah, it may be illegal, but we both know that "legal" and "right" are often on opposite ends of the spectrum.

[del]

how often is that?

be specific

[Cletus]

Reality itself has a liberal bias.

That of course, is sheer unadulterated bullshit, commonly uttered by dumb assed Liberals with their heads stuck so far up their 4th point of contact, they haven't seen daylight for years. Fools who like to pretend they know far more than they actually do use that line a lot. It works well for them when they are addressing a room full of like minded drooling Liberal idiots, but no one with an IQ over 6, Liberal or Conservative believes it.

Reality by its very nature possesses no bias, Liberal or Conservative.

[Cletus]

so in other words, laws are good as long as you agree with them.

sweet

I never said any such thing.

[Amadeus]

That of course, is sheer unadulterated bull$#@!, commonly uttered by dumb assed Liberals with their heads stuck so far up their 4th point of contact, they haven't seen daylight for years. Fools who like to pretend they know far more than they actually do use that line a lot. It works well for them when they are addressing a room full of like minded drooling Liberal idiots, but no one with an IQ over 6, Liberal or Conservative believes it.
Reality by its very nature possesses no bias, Liberal or Conservative.
Sure it does, which is why liberals are generally correct on the facts, and conservatives are often climate-change deniers or think that magic is a real thing.

[del]

I never said any such thing.
yeah, you did.

[Cletus]

Sure it does, which is why liberals are generally correct on the facts, and conservatives are often climate-change deniers or think that magic is a real thing.

I suspect you engage in a whole lot of "magical thinking". The quote above is a great example of it.

[Cletus]

yeah, you did.

Go ahead and provide the relevant quote and I will break it down for you into the simplest terms possible in order to help you understand what was actually said.

[del]

Go ahead and provide the relevant quote and I will break it down for you into the simplest terms possible in order to help you understand what was actually said.
that's okay, i get enough of your bloviating as it is.

[Bethere]

I suspect you engage in a whole lot of "magical thinking". The quote above is a great example of it.
Nuh, uh! YOU do.

[Cletus]

that's okay, i get enough of your bloviating as it is.

I knew you wouldn't be up to the task.

Still, it was fun watching you engage is a little weasel talk to get out of it. :grin:

[Cletus]

Nuh, uh! YOU do.

Did someone play a mean trick on you and tell you that you matter?

[Bethere]

Did someone play a mean trick on you and tell you that you matter?

YOU did!