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MMC
12-09-2016, 11:22 AM
Since being named secretary of education, philanthropist and education activist Betsy DeVos has been the target of jibes and attacks from those who defend the status quo for our nation's schools. But as a new global education survey shows, the status quo is indefensible.

Every three years the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), a project of the 27-nation Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, releases its test scores for 15-year-olds in 70 countries. Despite massive per-pupil spending in the U.S., our schools' performance can at best be termed mediocre (http://www.oecd.org/pisa/).


In 2013, for instance, during the three years of the PISA test results, the U.S. spent $15,171 per student (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/), or 7.3% of GDP. That's more on a per-dollar basis than anyone else, and above the 6.3% of GDP average spent on education by other countries . We often hear that teachers are underpaid. But the average high school teacher in the U.S. earns close to $53,000, compared with an average of $45,500 for other countries in the OECD.



In the 2012-2015 results, the U.S. ranked 35th in math, 15th in reading and 18th in science. Math scores declined for the first time in years, while reading and science remain pretty much stuck where they have been. We spend huge sums for no improvement.


Why is this? There are many reasons, but the biggest is the government-union monopoly on education. We send kids to schools that are run and regulated by government and unions — the two most notoriously inefficient institutions in American life — and then wonder why kids fail to learn. The unions, in particular, have done their best to stifle meaningful reforms, such as charters, vouchers and home-schooling, that would lift test scores and make our kids globally competitive.


"Major reform is threatening to (unions') vested interests (http://www.hoover.org/research/has-ed-reform-failed)in the existing system, and they have used their formidable power to repel and weaken the efforts of reformers to bring real change," wrote Terry M. Moe, a political science professor at Stanford University and a fellow at the Hoover Institution.



By paying teachers not for performance but for time on the job, unions ensure mediocrity in the classroom. Yes, some teachers are excellent. But many more are bad, and once hired, it's almost impossible to fire them. Unions exercise extraordinary control over how and what kids learn. It's time to break their monopoly on your child's mind at school.


Meanwhile, through union dues, they spend tens of millions each election cycle to fund mostly left-wing politicians — that is, Democrats — who share their statist vision of the world. School children are the victims of this.


Unions, administrators and leftists are terrified of DeVos. Before she's taken office, they've accused her of wanting to "gut" public education, and called her a "destroyer" of public schools. This kind of over-the-top, unhinged criticism of someone trying to fix a clearly broken educational system is why someone like Donald Trump can get elected. We can only hope that, along with all of her other reforms, DeVos will also reduce the pernicious influence of teachers unions and left-wing academics on American education......snip~

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sagging-u-s-test-scores-show-why-betsy-devos-was-great-pick-to-fix-education/


Ah.....so what Trump is saying is, the leftness is a bunch of dipshits. That they have screwed up kids lives. Dumbed their asses down. Looks like it shows and not only does it show us. It shows the rest of the World. Quite a fitting reward for the left, huh?

Cigar
12-09-2016, 11:25 AM
INB4 Obama's Fault

MMC
12-09-2016, 11:29 AM
INB4 Obama's Fault

In the 2012-2015 results, the U.S. ranked 35th in math, 15th in reading and 18th in science. Math scores declined for the first time in years, while reading and science remain pretty much stuck where they have been. We spend huge sums for no improvement.....snip~


http://politirant.com/Smileys/oldrant/pointlaugh.gif

Common
12-09-2016, 11:57 AM
cmon now say it isnt so, test scores sagged under obama. Must be all the students that cant speak english he brought in here

Common
12-09-2016, 11:57 AM
INB4 Obama's Fault
Of course it is, he was lamer in chief for the last 8 yrs. You wanna blame bush right Lmap

DGUtley
12-09-2016, 01:30 PM
There's a lot of work to do....

nic34
12-09-2016, 01:50 PM
Another fox in charge of the hen house..... like Scott Pruitt, maybe they can bankrupt us by suing the environmentalists and the teacher's unions for the next 4 years.

patrickt
12-09-2016, 02:03 PM
People have to understand that schools don't exist to educate children. There purpose is to provide the maximum amount of employment for liberal teachers.

nathanbforrest45
12-09-2016, 02:16 PM
Another fox in charge of the hen house..... like Scott Pruitt, maybe they can bankrupt us by suing the environmentalists and the teacher's unions for the next 4 years.

No no no, we should continue operating our schools like we have for the past 75 years and watch goat herders in Afghanistan out perform our children. But by God, our kids will be able to properly apply a condom.

nathanbforrest45
12-09-2016, 02:16 PM
People have to understand that schools don't exist to educate children. There purpose is to provide the maximum amount of employment for liberal teachers.

The purpose of American schools is to turn us all in to Frenchmen.

DGUtley
12-09-2016, 02:37 PM
Another fox in charge of the hen house..... like Scott Pruitt, maybe they can bankrupt us by suing the environmentalists and the teacher's unions for the next 4 years.

Under what possible scenario would they sue the public school unions or environmentalists for years? I'm confused. They'll change the way the regulations are enforced by performing the required economic impact analysis. I'm curious as to your thoughts there. Thank you.

MMC
12-09-2016, 03:05 PM
There's a lot of work to do....

Of course there is.....the leftness was in charge. Now how far behind are these generations of kids.

MMC
12-09-2016, 03:09 PM
People have to understand that schools don't exist to educate children. There purpose is to provide the maximum amount of employment for liberal teachers.
Meanwhile, through union dues, they spend tens of millions each election cycle to fund mostly left-wing politicians — that is, Democrats — who share their statist vision of the world. School children are the victims of this......snip~


As well as fund mostly left wing politicians.

del
12-09-2016, 03:12 PM
People have to understand that schools don't exist to educate children. There purpose is to provide the maximum amount of employment for liberal teachers.
certainly true in your case

MMC
12-09-2016, 03:39 PM
The purpose of American schools is to turn us all in to Frenchmen.
I refuse to bathe in and wear perfume.....just sayin. :laugh:

Tahuyaman
12-09-2016, 03:55 PM
Sagging U.S. Test Scores Show Why Trump Picked Betsy DeVos To Fix Education.....
The first step in fixing our public schools is to get rid of this one size fits all federal mandate. Put our schools back into the hands of the states, counties and cities where these kids live. Then we need to hold our educators accountable for the results or lack thereof.

MMC
12-09-2016, 04:04 PM
Sagging U.S. Test Scores Show Why Trump Picked Betsy DeVos To Fix Education.....


The first step in fixing our public schools is to get rid of this one size fits all federal mandate. Put our schools back into the hands of the states, counties and cities where these kids live. Then we need to hold our educators accountable for the results or lack thereof.

The Fed Dept of education is nothing but a waste of money. We can get rid of that Dept and the US Marshall office.

patrickt
12-09-2016, 07:08 PM
Of course there is.....the leftness was in charge. Now how far behind are these generations of kids.

It started about fifty years ago.

donttread
12-10-2016, 01:22 PM
Since being named secretary of education, philanthropist and education activist Betsy DeVos has been the target of jibes and attacks from those who defend the status quo for our nation's schools. But as a new global education survey shows, the status quo is indefensible.

Every three years the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA), a project of the 27-nation Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, releases its test scores for 15-year-olds in 70 countries. Despite massive per-pupil spending in the U.S., our schools' performance can at best be termed mediocre (http://www.oecd.org/pisa/).


In 2013, for instance, during the three years of the PISA test results, the U.S. spent $15,171 per student (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/), or 7.3% of GDP. That's more on a per-dollar basis than anyone else, and above the 6.3% of GDP average spent on education by other countries . We often hear that teachers are underpaid. But the average high school teacher in the U.S. earns close to $53,000, compared with an average of $45,500 for other countries in the OECD.



In the 2012-2015 results, the U.S. ranked 35th in math, 15th in reading and 18th in science. Math scores declined for the first time in years, while reading and science remain pretty much stuck where they have been. We spend huge sums for no improvement.


Why is this? There are many reasons, but the biggest is the government-union monopoly on education. We send kids to schools that are run and regulated by government and unions — the two most notoriously inefficient institutions in American life — and then wonder why kids fail to learn. The unions, in particular, have done their best to stifle meaningful reforms, such as charters, vouchers and home-schooling, that would lift test scores and make our kids globally competitive.


"Major reform is threatening to (unions') vested interests (http://www.hoover.org/research/has-ed-reform-failed)in the existing system, and they have used their formidable power to repel and weaken the efforts of reformers to bring real change," wrote Terry M. Moe, a political science professor at Stanford University and a fellow at the Hoover Institution.



By paying teachers not for performance but for time on the job, unions ensure mediocrity in the classroom. Yes, some teachers are excellent. But many more are bad, and once hired, it's almost impossible to fire them. Unions exercise extraordinary control over how and what kids learn. It's time to break their monopoly on your child's mind at school.


Meanwhile, through union dues, they spend tens of millions each election cycle to fund mostly left-wing politicians — that is, Democrats — who share their statist vision of the world. School children are the victims of this.


Unions, administrators and leftists are terrified of DeVos. Before she's taken office, they've accused her of wanting to "gut" public education, and called her a "destroyer" of public schools. This kind of over-the-top, unhinged criticism of someone trying to fix a clearly broken educational system is why someone like Donald Trump can get elected. We can only hope that, along with all of her other reforms, DeVos will also reduce the pernicious influence of teachers unions and left-wing academics on American education......snip~

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sagging-u-s-test-scores-show-why-betsy-devos-was-great-pick-to-fix-education/


Ah.....so what Trump is saying is, the leftness is a bunch of dipshits. That they have screwed up kids lives. Dumbed their asses down. Looks like it shows and not only does it show us. It shows the rest of the World. Quite a fitting reward for the left, huh?

Total inclusion causes us to teach to the bottom rung of the class, often students who really shouldn't be mainstreamed. For example , junior high school students who's behavior is so unacceptable that they regularly require a one on one in class "baby sitter"

ripmeister
12-11-2016, 08:21 PM
Several observations........

And yet our universities are the envy of the world.

We attempt to educate all children. Most countries don't outside of those with identified high aptitude.

As with most professions teaching has its good and bad eggs. It's easy to teach the motivated and those who come from strong parental involvement. Here in Ohio the voucher/charter school approach has pretty much been a disaster except of course for the for profit education companies that have walked away with millions, leaving students and families in the lurch.

Green Arrow
12-11-2016, 09:22 PM
The status quo of American education is absolutely terrible and needs serious reform.

Picking DeVos to do it, though, is like picking a dog catcher to perform your brain surgery. You'll get something different than the status quo, that's for sure. Doesn't mean it will be anything remotely good, though.

ripmeister
12-11-2016, 09:33 PM
The status quo of American education is absolutely terrible and needs serious reform.

Picking DeVos to do it, though, is like picking a dog catcher to perform your brain surgery. You'll get something different than the status quo, that's for sure. Doesn't mean it will be anything remotely good, though.
Based on the things I've read so far about her endeavors in this area it will be a disaster. We can argue about the state of education in the US but at times I think Trumps solution to anything that has problems is to blow it up and start over. His EPA choice is another good example. Some better watch out what they wish for.

Tahuyaman
12-11-2016, 11:00 PM
The status quo of American education is absolutely terrible and needs serious reform.

Picking DeVos to do it, though, is like picking a dog catcher to perform your brain surgery. You'll get something different than the status quo, that's for sure. Doesn't mean it will be anything remotely good, though.



Based on the things I've read so far about her endeavors in this area it will be a disaster. We can argue about the state of education in the US but at times I think Trumps solution to anything that has problems is to blow it up and start over. His EPA choice is another good example. Some better watch out what they wish for.


When you oppose everyone just because you don't like the person who appoints them, you tend to lose credibility.


It's kind of like the fable of chicken little.

Green Arrow
12-11-2016, 11:09 PM
When you oppose everyone just because you don't like the person who appoints them, you tend to lose credibility.


It's kind of like the fable of chicken little.

I can't speak for ripmeister, but I don't oppose everyone.

NapRover
12-11-2016, 11:13 PM
Shake things up. Like Trump says, what have you got to lose?

Tahuyaman
12-11-2016, 11:13 PM
I can't speak for ripmeister, but I don't oppose everyone.

which Trump appointment have you approved of?

Tahuyaman
12-11-2016, 11:21 PM
Shake things up. Like Trump says, what have you got to lose?

During the campaign season I was quite certain either a Trump or Clinton presidency would be a complete disaster. The people Trump is surrounding himself with are somewhat encouraging. It surprised me that he could get quality people like them to join his administration.

I'm still not sure that he has the humility to delegate the proper amount of authority to these people which maximizes their ability the way great leaders always do. I hope he surprises me there too.

Green Arrow
12-12-2016, 12:05 AM
Shake things up. Like Trump says, what have you got to lose?

A lot, actually.

Green Arrow
12-12-2016, 12:08 AM
which Trump appointment have you approved of?

I have no issues with Gens. Kelly or Mattis, K.T. McFarland, Nikki Haley, or Reince Priebus. I don't know how Linda McMahon is supposed to be good for small businesses considering she leads a megacorporation, but that's the only complaint about her I have.

decedent
12-12-2016, 12:15 AM
It's not surprising that the guy who created a fake university nominated an uneducated Secretary of Education. This really is a car full of clowns - with Trump at the wheel.

Not only is DeVos unqualified, but she funds a group that wants kids to drop out of school to work in mines. To add to her contempt for poor children, she wants to destroy public schools in favor for chartered and private schools.


So basically, the system where rich, white kids get a better education will get even worse.

donttread
12-12-2016, 07:23 AM
Based on the things I've read so far about her endeavors in this area it will be a disaster. We can argue about the state of education in the US but at times I think Trumps solution to anything that has problems is to blow it up and start over. His EPA choice is another good example. Some better watch out what they wish for.


Inclusion is out of control and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt. Ask an upper grade school teacher or junior high teacher the issues that go on in their classroom everyday and you'll understand the level they have to teach to and how the smart kids don't get challenged.

Tahuyaman
12-12-2016, 10:26 AM
I have no issues with Gens. Kelly or Mattis, K.T. McFarland, Nikki Haley, or Reince Priebus. I don't know how Linda McMahon is supposed to be good for small businesses considering she leads a megacorporation, but that's the only complaint about her I have.

maybe I have yiu confused with someone else, but I could have sworn that in another thread you have commented that all of his cabinet choices are terrible.

Tahuyaman
12-12-2016, 10:31 AM
I have no issues with Gens. Kelly or Mattis, K.T. McFarland, Nikki Haley, or Reince Priebus. I don't know how Linda McMahon is supposed to be good for small businesses considering she leads a megacorporation, but that's the only complaint about her I have.

Here are comments you made in a thread about Trump's supposed choice for Secretary of State.


Easily the worst pick he's made, and that's saying something considering they've all been terrible.


All of his picks have only not been terrible if you're a rightist ideologue.

See? I can poison the well too, but if we continue like this it will never lead to a positive discussion.

So, what is it? Are they all terrible, or do you like some of them?

ripmeister
12-12-2016, 10:32 AM
I can't speak for ripmeister, but I don't oppose everyone.

Neither do I.

ripmeister
12-12-2016, 10:34 AM
During the campaign season I was quite certain either a Trump or Clinton presidency would be a complete disaster. The people Trump is surrounding himself with are somewhat encouraging. It surprised me that he could get quality people like them to join his administration.

I'm still not sure that he has the humility to delegate the proper amount of authority to these people which maximizes their ability the way great leaders always do. I hope he surprises me there too.

I would agree with this for the most part. Some seem good, some not so good.

ripmeister
12-12-2016, 10:36 AM
Inclusion is out of control and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt. Ask an upper grade school teacher or junior high teacher the issues that go on in their classroom everyday and you'll understand the level they have to teach to and how the smart kids don't get challenged.

I'm sure that's true in some schools and not in others. Not sure what you mean by inclusion.

Tahuyaman
12-12-2016, 10:41 AM
Neither do I.

well, I already showed where Green Arrow has changed his story. Could I do the same with you?

Tahuyaman
12-12-2016, 11:18 AM
Inclusion is out of control and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt. Ask an upper grade school teacher or junior high teacher the issues that go on in their classroom everyday and you'll understand the level they have to teach to and how the smart kids don't get challenged.

when you say inclusion, are you talking about the practice of integrating students of lesser ability in with the more gifted, then holding back the gifted so the self esteem of the slower students isn't harmed?

Green Arrow
12-12-2016, 12:37 PM
Here are comments you made in a thread about Trump's supposed choice for Secretary of State.





So, what is it? Are they all terrible, or do you like some of them?

It was hyperbole. An exaggeration. If you read another couple posts of mine into that thread, I named the same names.

Tahuyaman
12-12-2016, 12:52 PM
It was hyperbole. An exaggeration. If you read another couple posts of mine into that thread, I named the same names.

So then from now on, you won't criticize someone else for engaging in hyperbole or exaggerating a position?

ripmeister
12-12-2016, 01:19 PM
well, I already showed where @Green Arrow (http://thepoliticalforums.com/member.php?u=868) has changed his story. Could I do the same with you?
I don't know. I don't recall making a blanket statement about his appointments but maybe I did. Do what you will.