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Scerab
12-22-2016, 09:26 AM
Ever wonder if income taxes are constitutional? Is the 16gh amendment really legal? If it is, why then was it only reinstated at 1913? First a history, the first income taxes, the Lincoln revenue act of 1861, were levied by president Lincoln during the civil war. Only to be repealed by congress in 1871. Then the Wilson–Gorman Tariff Act of 1984 was deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court one year later. Why then might you ask are we paying income taxes? Are income taxes constitutional?

In 1913 the 16th amendment was ratified, why? The answer is simple...the dreaded federal reserve act of 1913...now that the USA will be forever plunged into crippling debt due to borrowing every cent. Moving our monetary system from a sliver based to a gold based currency. The real calamity started! It would be interesting to know how many of you poeple think the federal reserve is a government institution vs those who know it is not. the 16th amendment was ratified because the billionaires who own the federal reserve needed assurance, or collateral if you may, on their interest payments. Yup, let the American stoog foot the bill. Indeed the battle undertaken by these greedy rothschilds and other rotten billionaires to convince congress of having a national bank was a long one. The first one was signed into law by congress in 1971 for a 20 year charter. It was never renewed. What happened when congress did not renew it in 1811? The Rothschilds caused the war of 1811. Lets go back further in time and see what caused the very own American war of independence. Well that is simple... it was a colonial protest against British taxation policies in the 1760s, due to the national Bank of England.
Let me share some quotes with you people,
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws."-- Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild


"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce." -- James A. Garfield, President of the United States
"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." Henry ford
"The regional Federal Reserve banks are not government agencies. ...but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." Lewis vs. United States, 680 F. 2d 1239 9th Circuit 1982
"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." -- Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. , 1913
Indeed, read the history of the Great Depression. The dreaded rothschilds brought Churchill on the first day of the Great Depression, the black day, in 1929. When these billionaire scum, had asked for immediate repayment of their loans and immediately plunged the USA economy overnight into a massive depression.
Will this ever get better? Will the people ever realize the greatest robbery of all time, the Fort Knox gold robbery in broad daylight of the the American stoog. when possession of gold was banned by the federal govement and all people were required to turn in their gold, where it was stored in Fort Knox. Only to be taken by the dreaded billionaire as collateral for their loans to the government. The price of gold went down in some places while it remained high in others. by simply moving the gold across borders, those greedy shits made more money to swim in.

when will they stop? Never! Trumps tax plan, CLEARLY benefits the rich... the American stoog, still thinks he/she/it will get a break. Lol.
will the American people ever prevail? Not for a long time, IF ever...
the White House cabinet will have so many billionaires pulling the strings, you will see income inequality and rampant poverty spreading beyond belief. The very people who voted for trump, who were screwed by the many campaign lies, will be the ones to suffer.
It is Lincoln, the first president of the modern red party that said, a government of the poeple by the people and for the People. Well not our government, it is of the billionaires, by the billionaires and for the billionaires.
MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON OUR CHILDREN.

Mark III
12-22-2016, 09:28 AM
You seem to be arguing for both taxing the rich and not taxing them. Which is it?

Scerab
12-22-2016, 09:32 AM
No good sir!
it is the rich who are arguing against the taxation of their ilk.

Peter1469
12-22-2016, 09:35 AM
The bulk to tax revenue comes from the middle class. They represent the largest source.

Scerab
12-22-2016, 09:45 AM
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb161/scerab/IMG_1686.png (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/scerab/media/IMG_1686.png.html)

Captain Obvious
12-22-2016, 10:03 AM
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb161/scerab/IMG_1686.png (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/scerab/media/IMG_1686.png.html)

Thats income tax, try again.

Scerab
12-22-2016, 10:09 AM
This thread talks about income tax. You seem to have digressed.

Bethere
12-22-2016, 10:38 AM
You seem to be arguing for both taxing the rich and not taxing them. Which is it?

Good times!

Bethere
12-22-2016, 10:43 AM
Ever wonder if income taxes are constitutional? Is the 16gh amendment really legal? If it is, why then was it only reinstated at 1913? First a history, the first income taxes, the Lincoln revenue act of 1861, were levied by president Lincoln during the civil war. Only to be repealed by congress in 1871. Then the Wilson–Gorman Tariff Act of 1984 was deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court one year later. Why then might you ask are we paying income taxes? Are income taxes constitutional?

In 1913 the 16th amendment was ratified, why? The answer is simple...the dreaded federal reserve act of 1913...now that the USA will be forever plunged into crippling debt due to borrowing every cent. Moving our monetary system from a sliver based to a gold based currency. The real calamity started! It would be interesting to know how many of you poeple think the federal reserve is a government institution vs those who know it is not. the 16th amendment was ratified because the billionaires who own the federal reserve needed assurance, or collateral if you may, on their interest payments. Yup, let the American stoog foot the bill. Indeed the battle undertaken by these greedy rothschilds and other rotten billionaires to convince congress of having a national bank was a long one. The first one was signed into law by congress in 1971 for a 20 year charter. It was never renewed. What happened when congress did not renew it in 1811? The Rothschilds caused the war of 1811. Lets go back further in time and see what caused the very own American war of independence. Well that is simple... it was a colonial protest against British taxation policies in the 1760s, due to the national Bank of England.
Let me share some quotes with you people,
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws."-- Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild


"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce." -- James A. Garfield, President of the United States
"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." Henry ford
"The regional Federal Reserve banks are not government agencies. ...but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." Lewis vs. United States, 680 F. 2d 1239 9th Circuit 1982
"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." -- Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. , 1913
Indeed, read the history of the Great Depression. The dreaded rothschilds brought Churchill on the first day of the Great Depression, the black day, in 1929. When these billionaire scum, had asked for immediate repayment of their loans and immediately plunged the USA economy overnight into a massive depression.
Will this ever get better? Will the people ever realize the greatest robbery of all time, the Fort Knox gold robbery in broad daylight of the the American stoog. when possession of gold was banned by the federal govement and all people were required to turn in their gold, where it was stored in Fort Knox. Only to be taken by the dreaded billionaire as collateral for their loans to the government. The price of gold went down in some places while it remained high in others. by simply moving the gold across borders, those greedy $#@!s made more money to swim in.

when will they stop? Never! Trumps tax plan, CLEARLY benefits the rich... the American stoog, still thinks he/she/it will get a break. Lol.
will the American people ever prevail? Not for a long time, IF ever...
the White House cabinet will have so many billionaires pulling the strings, you will see income inequality and rampant poverty spreading beyond belief. The very people who voted for trump, who were screwed by the many campaign lies, will be the ones to suffer.
It is Lincoln, the first president of the modern red party that said, a government of the poeple by the people and for the People. Well not our government, it is of the billionaires, by the billionaires and for the billionaires.
MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON OUR CHILDREN.

Taxation is absolutely constitutional, even without the 16th amendment.

Having said that the 16th amendment is by its very nature constitutional. It is, whether you or anyone else likes it, a legal part of the Constitution that over rules anything written prior.

That's the way it is.


I did, however, enjoy your post.

Subdermal
12-22-2016, 10:44 AM
Ever wonder if income taxes are constitutional? Is the 16gh amendment really legal? If it is, why then was it only reinstated at 1913? First a history, the first income taxes, the Lincoln revenue act of 1861, were levied by president Lincoln during the civil war. Only to be repealed by congress in 1871. Then the Wilson–Gorman Tariff Act of 1984 was deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court one year later. Why then might you ask are we paying income taxes? Are income taxes constitutional?

In 1913 the 16th amendment was ratified, why? The answer is simple...the dreaded federal reserve act of 1913...now that the USA will be forever plunged into crippling debt due to borrowing every cent. Moving our monetary system from a sliver based to a gold based currency. The real calamity started! It would be interesting to know how many of you poeple think the federal reserve is a government institution vs those who know it is not. the 16th amendment was ratified because the billionaires who own the federal reserve needed assurance, or collateral if you may, on their interest payments. Yup, let the American stoog foot the bill. Indeed the battle undertaken by these greedy rothschilds and other rotten billionaires to convince congress of having a national bank was a long one. The first one was signed into law by congress in 1971 for a 20 year charter. It was never renewed. What happened when congress did not renew it in 1811? The Rothschilds caused the war of 1811. Lets go back further in time and see what caused the very own American war of independence. Well that is simple... it was a colonial protest against British taxation policies in the 1760s, due to the national Bank of England.
Let me share some quotes with you people,
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws."-- Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild


"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce." -- James A. Garfield, President of the United States
"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." Henry ford
"The regional Federal Reserve banks are not government agencies. ...but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." Lewis vs. United States, 680 F. 2d 1239 9th Circuit 1982
"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." -- Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. , 1913
Indeed, read the history of the Great Depression. The dreaded rothschilds brought Churchill on the first day of the Great Depression, the black day, in 1929. When these billionaire scum, had asked for immediate repayment of their loans and immediately plunged the USA economy overnight into a massive depression.
Will this ever get better? Will the people ever realize the greatest robbery of all time, the Fort Knox gold robbery in broad daylight of the the American stoog. when possession of gold was banned by the federal govement and all people were required to turn in their gold, where it was stored in Fort Knox. Only to be taken by the dreaded billionaire as collateral for their loans to the government. The price of gold went down in some places while it remained high in others. by simply moving the gold across borders, those greedy $#@!s made more money to swim in.

when will they stop? Never! Trumps tax plan, CLEARLY benefits the rich... the American stoog, still thinks he/she/it will get a break. Lol.
will the American people ever prevail? Not for a long time, IF ever...
the White House cabinet will have so many billionaires pulling the strings, you will see income inequality and rampant poverty spreading beyond belief. The very people who voted for trump, who were screwed by the many campaign lies, will be the ones to suffer.
It is Lincoln, the first president of the modern red party that said, a government of the poeple by the people and for the People. Well not our government, it is of the billionaires, by the billionaires and for the billionaires.
MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON OUR CHILDREN.
How a poster could go from making totally legitimate points about the problems and abuses behind the Federal Income Tax...to attempting to claim that Trump cutting tax rates won't benefit anyone but the rich (without at all saying how, and in the face of recent history, where only the top 10% improved their station under Obama: an increasingly so as one approaches the top .1%)...is addled.

The reason that the upper class did better under Obama is twofold:

1. Those more closely tied into Government, via lobbyist relations - or direct - are the upper crust. They make their own favors. Our Government is now both big enough and corrupt enough to accommodate these favors. These - generally - are not economy expanding activities; they, instead, shunt the economy, by granting advantage to only a very narrow segment of American business (road builders, mega corps, etc) at the expense of smaller business (who cannot afford the bureaucracy created by the regulations).

2. The Stock Market has been artificially stimulated through the manipulation of interest rates, and QE. Those with money benefitted by having the money invested in this bubble. Lower income brackets do not.

What Trump is attempting to do is to attack the mechanism which results in such compartmentalized (fake) growth, and broaden the tax base to allow horizontal participation in the economy. That means both more, and better, jobs. That happens when advantages are levelled, and entrepreneurs feel both more CONFIDENT in taking risk, and more REWARDED for taking risk (as well as far less ENCUMBERED when taking risk).

That is not something Obama did. Obama did the opposite. Liberals do not have a single clue about this stuff; Government is their. God.

Scerab
12-22-2016, 12:33 PM
How a poster could go from making totally legitimate points about the problems and abuses behind the Federal Income Tax...to attempting to claim that Trump cutting tax rates won't benefit anyone but the rich (without at all saying how, and in the face of recent history, where only the top 10% improved their station under Obama: an increasingly so as one approaches the top .1%)...is addled.

The reason that the upper class did better under Obama is twofold:

1. Those more closely tied into Government, via lobbyist relations - or direct - are the upper crust. They make their own favors. Our Government is now both big enough and corrupt enough to accommodate these favors. These - generally - are not economy expanding activities; they, instead, shunt the economy, by granting advantage to only a very narrow segment of American business (road builders, mega corps, etc) at the expense of smaller business (who cannot afford the bureaucracy created by the regulations).

2. The Stock Market has been artificially stimulated through the manipulation of interest rates, and QE. Those with money benefitted by having the money invested in this bubble. Lower income brackets do not.

What Trump is attempting to do is to attack the mechanism which results in such compartmentalized (fake) growth, and broaden the tax base to allow horizontal participation in the economy. That means both more, and better, jobs. That happens when advantages are levelled, and entrepreneurs feel both more CONFIDENT in taking risk, and more REWARDED for taking risk (as well as far less ENCUMBERED when taking risk).

That is not something Obama did. Obama did the opposite. Liberals do not have a single clue about this stuff; Government is their. God.
You sir are clearly misguided.
The two party system is merely a puppet show for the American stoog. Keep the masses busy in a system that is bought and in the pockets of the billionaires. It is common knowledge that many billionaires donate to both parties.
Keep your right wing vs left wing rhetoric and rant. It will get you no where.
The truth is, we are owned by the banks who are controlled by the billionaires.
If the banks called in their loans, which they legally can, today! What do you think will happen?
THE SECOND GREAT DEPSREESION.
Yes, think about that when you whisper in your mind, god bless America.
more like god bless the billionaires.

Subdermal
12-22-2016, 01:18 PM
You sir are clearly misguided.

I am? By all means, then, straight me out! Let's see if you can.

The two party system is merely a puppet show for the American stoog.

Without quibbling on the time frame, I agree. I'm still misguided?


Keep the masses busy in a system that is bought and in the pockets of the billionaires. It is common knowledge that many billionaires donate to both parties.

Exactly, which is why I continue to reference Cronyism as the primary problem - and why we must not continue to play the game of the billionaire, which is to fully support the leftist notion of "more regulation: we must continue to make the Government bigger in order to control the influence of the Government" stupidity.

I want really small - Constitutionally limited - Federal Government. That included reverse/ending the abuse of the General Welfare, Commerce, and Establishment Clauses.

Billionaires know that the only way to make Government do their bidding is by making Government powerful enough to to do their bidding.

Where do you stand? Am I still misguided?

Keep your right wing vs left wing rhetoric and rant. It will get you no where.

Wait. Isn't that what you just did in your OP? You took perfectly reasonable - insightful, even - positions on the dangers and immorality of income tax, and you turned it utterly political.


The truth is, we are owned by the banks who are controlled by the billionaires.

Yes...the Federal Reserve and Central Bankers immediately began to poison this country's well by inculcating themselves into everything through control of our currency.

And they needed overarching Government to do it, didn't they? I'm still misguided?


If the banks called in their loans, which they legally can, today! What do you think will happen?
THE SECOND GREAT DEPSREESION.
Yes, think about that when you whisper in your mind, god bless America.
more like god bless the billionaires.

Look carefully at what I'm saying. Then reconsider exactly why you believe I'm misguided.

Grizz
12-22-2016, 01:53 PM
Yes Virginia, there really IS a Matrix.
The Banks indeed control everything.
It is going to get worse before it gets better.....I don't believe it will ever get better, the rabbit hole just goes to deep.
Take the "Stimulus". Not many know how it actually works.....the Executive Branch decides that we're going to "stimulate" the Economy with "x" amount of money....only it has no money to do it with....so the Treasury (controlled by the Executive Branch) at the direction of the Prez prints T-Bills and sells them to Banks, other Nations etc....and then spends the money on whatever pet projects are in vogue (cash for clunkers etc).
For the record, it was bullsh*t when Bush did it too.
Now the money is gone and "We the People" are on the hook for it AND we are paying interest on it.
Think about that.....

War, no Nation has the money to pay for Wars.....so those same Banks that own and control everything else lend money to BOTH sides to finance the same War....let that sink in.....
Guess what? We are paying interest on THAT too.

We dance to whatever tune the Banks want us to and they just sit back and get richer and richer and richer....and we continue to dance.
Another little gem ....once we deposit our money into a Bank we no longer own it if something bad happens...

"Few depositors realize that legally, the bank owns the depositor’s funds as soon as they are put in the bank. Our money becomes the bank’s, and we become unsecured creditors holding IOUs."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ellen-brown/banks-confiscation_b_2957937.html

I used a Lefty source to disarm the hyper partisan among us.

Bethere
12-22-2016, 05:23 PM
You sir are clearly misguided.
The two party system is merely a puppet show for the American stoog. Keep the masses busy in a system that is bought and in the pockets of the billionaires. It is common knowledge that many billionaires donate to both parties.
Keep your right wing vs left wing rhetoric and rant. It will get you no where.
The truth is, we are owned by the banks who are controlled by the billionaires.
If the banks called in their loans, which they legally can, today! What do you think will happen?
THE SECOND GREAT DEPSREESION.
Yes, think about that when you whisper in your mind, god bless America.
more like god bless the billionaires.
Stand your ground.

I like it.

Scerab
12-22-2016, 05:49 PM
I am? By all means, then, straight me out! Let's see if you can.


Without quibbling on the time frame, I agree. I'm still misguided?



Exactly, which is why I continue to reference Cronyism as the primary problem - and why we must not continue to play the game of the billionaire, which is to fully support the leftist notion of "more regulation: we must continue to make the Government bigger in order to control the influence of the Government" stupidity.

I want really small - Constitutionally limited - Federal Government. That included reverse/ending the abuse of the General Welfare, Commerce, and Establishment Clauses.

Billionaires know that the only way to make Government do their bidding is by making Government powerful enough to to do their bidding.

Where do you stand? Am I still misguided?


Wait. Isn't that what you just did in your OP? You took perfectly reasonable - insightful, even - positions on the dangers and immorality of income tax, and you turned it utterly political.



Yes...the Federal Reserve and Central Bankers immediately began to poison this country's well by inculcating themselves into everything through control of our currency.

And they needed overarching Government to do it, didn't they? I'm still misguided?



Look carefully at what I'm saying. Then reconsider exactly why you believe I'm misguided.
The billionaires have a stronger grip on the reds...
big government or small government, the outcome will still be the same.
How many died in the Great Depression and Great Recession. How many children went hungry and suffered. And all for what? So the billionaires could get richer...
these people don't care. It took them decades to undo the small progress FDR did. The blue president Woodrow Wilson was the retard who approved the federal reserve.

Scerab
12-22-2016, 06:02 PM
Yes Virginia, there really IS a Matrix.
The Banks indeed control everything.
It is going to get worse before it gets better.....I don't believe it will ever get better, the rabbit hole just goes to deep.
Take the "Stimulus". Not many know how it actually works.....the Executive Branch decides that we're going to "stimulate" the Economy with "x" amount of money....only it has no money to do it with....so the Treasury (controlled by the Executive Branch) at the direction of the Prez prints T-Bills and sells them to Banks, other Nations etc....and then spends the money on whatever pet projects are in vogue (cash for clunkers etc).
For the record, it was bullsh*t when Bush did it too.
Now the money is gone and "We the People" are on the hook for it AND we are paying interest on it.
Think about that.....

War, no Nation has the money to pay for Wars.....so those same Banks that own and control everything else lend money to BOTH sides to finance the same War....let that sink in.....
Guess what? We are paying interest on THAT too.

We dance to whatever tune the Banks want us to and they just sit back and get richer and richer and richer....and we continue to dance.
Another little gem ....once we deposit our money into a Bank we no longer own it if something bad happens...

"Few depositors realize that legally, the bank owns the depositor’s funds as soon as they are put in the bank. Our money becomes the bank’s, and we become unsecured creditors holding IOUs."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ellen-brown/banks-confiscation_b_2957937.html

I used a Lefty source to disarm the hyper partisan among us.

It's good to know that some people are well informed.
Did you know what is the basic foundation, and primary principle, of the banks? Simple. All a Bank needs is a certain amount in its deposits. Then They can lend out 10 times that amount. For example, if the Bank had a million dollars, it can issue loans in the amount of ten million and live off the interest.
But the difference between what is happening here and the previous example, is the scale!
the rothschild family founder sent his four sons in the 18th century to the richest civilizations, France, England, Italy and Spain.
When napoleon sold the Louisiana territory and got paid by the USA. He was able to reek havoic on Europe. napoleon was against any bankers. The rothschilds help fund the brits and Austrians in Waterloo. That put them on the map.
You want another dosy?
look at the Bible, It is Christmas after all.
What did Jesus do to the money changers in the temple? He attacked them. You ever guess why?
I will tell you why, the good Jewish people had to pay taxes to the temple. The only form of payment accepted was a pure silver coin, so the money changers, A.K.A the bankers, immediately monopolized these coins and then sold them at an inflated price, swindling the poor peasants. i guess this is one of the things I admire about Jesus the most.

Grizz
12-22-2016, 06:28 PM
It's good to know that some people are well informed.
Did you know what is the basic foundation, and primary principle, of the banks? Simple. All a Bank needs is a certain amount in its deposits. Then They can lend out 10 times that amount. For example, if the Bank had a million dollars, it can issue loans in the amount of ten million and live off the interest.
But the difference between what is happening here and the previous example, is the scale!
the rothschild family founder sent his four sons in the 18th century to the richest civilizations, France, England, Italy and Spain.
When napoleon sold the Louisiana territory and got paid by the USA. He was able to reek havoic on Europe. napoleon was against any bankers. The rothschilds help fund the brits and Austrians in Waterloo. That put them on the map.
You want another dosy?
look at the Bible, It is Christmas after all.
What did Jesus do to the money changers in the temple? He attacked them. You ever guess why?
I will tell you why, the good Jewish people had to pay taxes to the temple. The only form of payment accepted was a pure silver coin, so the money changers, A.K.A the bankers, immediately monopolized these coins and then sold them at an inflated price, swindling the poor peasants. i guess this is one of the things I admire about Jesus the most.
Yeppers, fractional reserves.

Captain Obvious
12-22-2016, 09:33 PM
This thread talks about income tax. You seem to have digressed.

Because the concept of income tax vs. total tax paid on total earnings is the real issue.

Limiting the discussion to income tax is a farce.

Read this, maybe this will help, depending on how institutionalized you are.

http://americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-sheet-taxing-wealthy-americans/

Subdermal
12-23-2016, 03:01 AM
You sir are clearly misguided.
The two party system is merely a puppet show for the American stoog. Keep the masses busy in a system that is bought and in the pockets of the billionaires. It is common knowledge that many billionaires donate to both parties.
Keep your right wing vs left wing rhetoric and rant. It will get you no where.
The truth is, we are owned by the banks who are controlled by the billionaires.
If the banks called in their loans, which they legally can, today! What do you think will happen?
THE SECOND GREAT DEPSREESION.
Yes, think about that when you whisper in your mind, god bless America.
more like god bless the billionaires.


The billionaires have a stronger grip on the reds...
big government or small government, the outcome will still be the same.
How many died in the Great Depression and Great Recession. How many children went hungry and suffered. And all for what? So the billionaires could get richer...
these people don't care. It took them decades to undo the small progress FDR did. The blue president Woodrow Wilson was the retard who approved the federal reserve.
I note that you made it political in your OP, then you chided me for a supposed "right wing vs left wing rhetoric and rant".

Didn't you just double down in your latest post?

And why exactly would you believe that FDR was not a major friend to those who wished to co-opt Government for their own personal gain? What is the appeal of Government to a billionaire if it is not empowered to control everything? The progress was made by those who you claim to revile, but you're clearly blind to it.

So your claim of "big government or small government, the outcome will still be the same" is utterly specious. How could that possibly be?