Common sense and decency has prevailed in North Carolina

[Dustup]

Common sense and decency has prevailed in North Carolina! But it wont put an end to the Liberals attempt at pandering to the LBGTQ for their vote……The Progressives are willing to cross the Moral Rubicon to win elections and thumb their collective noses at God.
HB2 Stays: North Carolina Lawmakers Decline to Repeal Controversial Anti-LGBTQ ‘Bathroom’ Bill


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/hb2-stays-north-carolina-lawmakers-decline-repeal-controversial-anti-lgbtq-n698696

[Cigar]

Republican Governing ... nothing more, nothing less. nothing else :rollseyes:

[pjohns]

Sadly, both sides are wrong here, I think.

To declare that one can go in whichever gender's restroom with which he (or she) "identifies" is an absurdity. (Using that logic, I--a man--could claim that I "identify" with women, and thereby enter the women's restroom.)

But to claim that one should use whichever restroom corresponds to the gender shown on one's birth certificate is also wrong, it seems to me. There are, after all, some people who have changed gender, through an operation. (Personally, I find that disgusting; but it is nonetheless the case.)

If a person currently has a penis, then that person should be regarded as male; and should therefore be assigned the men's restroom.

If a person currently has a vagina, that person should be regarded as female; and should therefore be assigned the women's restroom.

This is not brain surgery...

[Standing Wolf]

Sadly, both sides are wrong here, I think.

To declare that one can go in whichever gender's restroom with which he (or she) "identifies" is an absurdity. (Using that logic, I--a man--could claim that I "identify" with women, and thereby enter the women's restroom.)

But to claim that one should use whichever restroom corresponds to the gender shown on one's birth certificate is also wrong, it seems to me. There are, after all, some people who have changed gender, through an operation. (Personally, I find that disgusting; but it is nonetheless the case.)

If a person currently has a penis, then that person should be regarded as male; and should therefore be assigned the men's restroom.

If a person currently has a vagina, that person should be regarded as female; and should therefore be assigned the women's restroom.

This is not brain surgery...

Actually, in many cases, it's not any kind of surgery.


In reality, only 33 percent of transgender people have reported undergoing some form of gender-confirming surgery, with 14 percent of transgender women and 21 percent of transgender men not interested in ever having genital surgery.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2014/03/13/watch-debunking-surgery-top-priority-trans-people-myth

Is the purpose of the North Carolina legislation, to any degree, the maintaining of public order?

Okay, then, according to the law currently in place, this individual would be required to use the women's bathroom.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1272909/thumbs/o-LORENZO-TRIBURGO-570.jpg?3

And this individual would be required to use the men's room.

http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/12/54/10/2802237/9/920x920.jpg

Does that at all strike you as being in any way potentially disruptive of public order?

[Cletus]

Sadly, both sides are wrong here, I think.

To declare that one can go in whichever gender's restroom with which he (or she) "identifies" is an absurdity. (Using that logic, I--a man--could claim that I "identify" with women, and thereby enter the women's restroom.)

But to claim that one should use whichever restroom corresponds to the gender shown on one's birth certificate is also wrong, it seems to me. There are, after all, some people who have changed gender, through an operation. (Personally, I find that disgusting; but it is nonetheless the case.)

If a person currently has a penis, then that person should be regarded as male; and should therefore be assigned the men's restroom.

If a person currently has a vagina, that person should be regarded as female; and should therefore be assigned the women's restroom.

This is not brain surgery...

Until you can be changed at the genetic level, surgery changes nothing. A male is still a male, even if he gets some hack surgeon to mutilate him. A female is still a female even if she does the same thing.

[Scrounger]

Until you can be changed at the genetic level, surgery changes nothing. A male is still a male, even if he gets some hack surgeon to mutilate him. A female is still a female even if she does the same thing.

You're right. Putting Cadillac hubcaps on a Plymouth don't change what's under the hood. It's really complex, however. If that blonde in the earlier post is hanging out with a couple of these other posters, it's easier to understand how and why they get all defensive.

The problems with public order would come if a straight guy put his tongue into the blonde's mouth, reached down and got a hold of a joystick bigger than the straight guy's. He'd have a major decision to make about his sexuality right then and there.

[Newpublius]

Sadly, both sides are wrong here, I think.

To declare that one can go in whichever gender's restroom with which he (or she) "identifies" is an absurdity. (Using that logic, I--a man--could claim that I "identify" with women, and thereby enter the women's restroom.)

But to claim that one should use whichever restroom corresponds to the gender shown on one's birth certificate is also wrong, it seems to me. There are, after all, some people who have changed gender, through an operation. (Personally, I find that disgusting; but it is nonetheless the case.)

If a person currently has a penis, then that person should be regarded as male; and should therefore be assigned the men's restroom.

If a person currently has a vagina, that person should be regarded as female; and should therefore be assigned the women's restroom.

This is not brain surgery...

It should never have been the subject of a local ordinance or counter-statute at the state level.

Were transgender individuals NOT going to the bathroom prior to the ordinance?

[Scrounger]

I think this is appropriate to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL3H3971NyQ#t=0.915532

[resister]

Actually, in many cases, it's not any kind of surgery.



http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2014/03/13/watch-debunking-surgery-top-priority-trans-people-myth

Is the purpose of the North Carolina legislation, to any degree, the maintaining of public order?

Okay, then, according to the law currently in place, this individual would be required to use the women's bathroom.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1272909/thumbs/o-LORENZO-TRIBURGO-570.jpg?3

And this individual would be required to use the men's room.

http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/12/54/10/2802237/9/920x920.jpg

Does that at all strike you as being in any way potentially disruptive of public order?
This was a non issue until the dems looked at the number of potential LGBQ(whatever)voters.Pandering at it's finest

[resister]

And besides,how do you know whats under the hood?

[Scrounger]

And besides,how do you know whats under the hood?
Warm up the engine. You'll know.

[resister]

Warm up the engine. You'll know.
:grin:

[Common Sense]

I have prevailed in North Carolina before. I can't speak for decency.

[Standing Wolf]

This was a non issue until the dems looked at the number of potential LGBQ(whatever)voters.Pandering at it's finest

Do you want to try answering the question, r? Which would be more disruptive...letting the bearded individual go ahead and use the men's room and the cute blonde use the lady's room, or forcing them to abide by their birth certificates?

The 500-pound gorilla in the room is that politicians who have made a living out of pandering to the Religious Right have lost the battle to forbid same-sex marriage and are simply looking for another "hook".

[Cletus]

Do you want to try answering the question, r? Which would be more disruptive...letting the bearded individual go ahead and use the men's room and the cute blonde use the lady's room, or forcing them to abide by their birth certificates?

The MALE goes the MALE restroom and the FEMALE goes to the FEMALE restroom. If they are uncomfortable doing that, they can either stop pretending to be something they are not, or cross their legs until they get home.

[Common Sense]

The MALE goes the MALE restroom and the FEMALE goes to the FEMALE restroom. If they are uncomfortable doing that, they can either stop pretending to be something they are not, or cross their legs until they get home.
Women's washroom?

http://www.homekeeperu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Transgender-male.jpg

[Dr. Who]

The MALE goes the MALE restroom and the FEMALE goes to the FEMALE restroom. If they are uncomfortable doing that, they can either stop pretending to be something they are not, or cross their legs until they get home.

So if the bearded person who looks like a man uses the ladies' rest room and the women go ballistic and the blonde bombshell uses the men's room causing all of the men to either run out in a panic or hit on said bombshell, that's so much better? Wouldn't it make more sense if the bearded individual pass unnoticed in the men's room and the bombshell go to the ladies' room without comment? It's not what's under the hood that no one knows about that makes the genders uncomfortable, it's their perceptions of gender that dictate the response.

[Dr. Who]

Women's washroom?

http://www.homekeeperu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Transgender-male.jpg
Speaking as a female, this person might cause a disturbance in the ladies' room.

[Cletus]

Women's washroom?

http://www.homekeeperu.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Transgender-male.jpg

Is it female?

If it is, yes.

[Cletus]

Speaking as a female, this person might cause a disturbance in the ladies' room.

Then throw her out and tell her to stop pretending to be something she is not.

[Dr. Who]

Then throw her out and tell her to stop pretending to be something she is not.

Does she look remotely feminine to you? Would you notice her in the men's room? I wonder how many you have not noticed in the men's room to date. Let's face if a person looks like they belong in the men's room or the ladies room, that perception is what really matters. If the bearded one put on a dress and went into the ladies room, there would be ructions. The state has no control over gender choice. No one is going to stand at the door of restrooms and demand proof of gender - ever, so people will operate based on appearance. This whole issue is only an issue because of schools. When it comes to public restrooms, people have been using the one of their choice based on appearance for a very long time. It's only an issue in schools because that is where gender reassignment begins in today's world. Kids are registered as one gender, so it's difficult for people to forget their original identities.

[Cletus]

Does she look remotely feminine to you? Would you notice her in the men's room? I wonder how many you have not noticed in the men's room to date. Let's face if a person looks like they belong in the men's room or the ladies room, that perception is what really matters. If the bearded one put on a dress and went into the ladies room, there would be ructions. The state has no control over gender choice. No one is going to stand at the door of restrooms and demand proof of gender - ever, so people will operate based on appearance. This whole issue is only an issue because of schools. When it comes to public restrooms, people have been using the one of their choice based on appearance for a very long time. It's only an issue in schools because that is where gender reassignment begins in today's world. Kids are registered as one gender, so it's difficult for people to forget their original identities.

You keep ignoring the only point that matters. Looking like a female doesn't make you a female. Looking like a male doesn't make you a male. Appearance is irrelevant.

[Common Sense]

Is it female?

If it is, yes.

So you think that person should have to use the ladies room?

[Common Sense]

You keep ignoring the only point that matters. Looking like a female doesn't make you a female. Looking like a male doesn't make you a male. Appearance is irrelevant.
It's only the genitalia that counts?

[resister]

I have a confession to make.If I gotta go and it is a single occupancy, If the mens rooms is occupied, I will go in the womens(if empty).No one has called me on this as of yet.If they do , my plan is to say ,Obama said I could.Keep in mind these are one person rooms.I would leave a dump in the bushes before I would go in a room with females.

[resister]

It's only the genitalia that counts?What is so confusing about this?Dressing like a chick does not make you a female.:rollseyes:

[Common Sense]

I really don't see the big deal. There are plenty of bathrooms that are unisex. People are taking shits and pissing. Oh the humanity!

[Cletus]

It's only the genitalia that counts?

It is the genes that count. You can remove or surgically alter someone's genitals. That doesn't change his or her sex. If he started out as a male, he will still be a male after you are done mutilating him. The same is true of a female.

Do you people really think you change a man into a woman or a woman into a man with a few strokes of a knife blade and some hormone shots?

[Common Sense]

What is so confusing about this?Dressing like a chick does not make you a female.:rollseyes:

It goes a little beyond "dressing like a chick".

Are you telling me this person should be forced too go to a mens only bathroom?

http://www.dailystormer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/34259jazzjennings.jpg

[resister]

It is the genes that count. You can remove or surgically alter someone's genitals. That doesn't change his or her sex. If he started out as a male, he will still be a male after you are done mutilating him. The same is true of a female.

Do you people really think you change a man into a woman or a woman into a man with a few strokes of a knife blade and some hormone shots?
Evidently so

[Common Sense]

It is the genes that count. You can remove or surgically alter someone's genitals. That doesn't change his or her sex. If he started out as a male, he will still be a male after you are done mutilating him. The same is true of a female.

Do you people really think you change a man into a woman or a woman into a man with a few strokes of a knife blade and some hormone shots?
That's an overly simplistic description. No wonder you feel the way you do.

[resister]

It goes a little beyond "dressing like a chick".

Are you telling me this person should be forced too go to a mens only bathroom?

http://www.dailystormer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/34259jazzjennings.jpg
"it" aint naked, I cant rightly tell(the hood ain't up"

[resister]

It goes a little beyond "dressing like a chick".

Are you telling me this person should be forced too go to a mens only bathroom?

http://www.dailystormer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/34259jazzjennings.jpg

Assuming this ^ is male, would you want this in the bathroom with your little daughter?When did this even become an issue?When they smelled a large lgbqt voting block to pander too?

[Common Sense]

"it" aint naked, I cant rightly tell(the hood ain't up"

"It"? seriously? Don't be one of those assholes.

People should be able to go into the bathroom that they identify with and be able to take a leak in peace.

Why the fuck are some of you so hateful and scared?

[Cletus]

That's an overly simplistic description. No wonder you feel the way you do.

It is not overly simplistic, at all. It is a simple statement of fact.

What part of it do you not understand?

[resister]

"It"? seriously? Don't be one of those assholes.

People should be able to go into the bathroom that they identify with and be able to take a leak in peace.

Why the fuck are some of you so hateful and scared?
What the hell should I say?I can't tell,you presented this as a she male,how can I tell?

[resister]

By the way, I am not hateful.

[Common Sense]

Assuming this ^ is male, would you want this in the bathroom with your little daughter?When did this even become an issue?When they smelled a large lgbqt voting block to pander too?

Contrary to this idiotic belief that everything liberals do is for votes (because wow, what a huge voting block lgbt are), some people actually stand up for people because they believe it is right.

Don't you think this kid would like to be able to go to the bathroom with her friends? Don't you think it's hard enough on these people? They are people you know.

The reality is sex and gender identity don't always line up. But people have to be complete closed minded shits and call these poor kids "it" or tranny. They pose no threat to you. The reaction to gays and transexuals by some people is juvenile. It's what we might expect to hear from teenage boys, yet we hear it from actual adults.

[Cletus]

Why the fuck are some of you so hateful and scared?

Ah, yes... the last bastion of those with no rational arguments to make... accuse those who disagree with you of being "hateful and scared".

I am neither of those things. I would suggest that YOU are both. You hate those who will not bow before the altar of political correctness and you fear being labeled "hateful and scared" so much that would rather perpetuate a lie than stand up and tell the truth.

[Common Sense]

By the way, I am not hateful.

You may not think so...and I doubt in reality you are. I think some people just react to things they don't understand with reactionary language.

If you met a transexual person and actually talked to them, I'd hope you'd feel some compassion for them. I doubt you would call them "it" to their face.

They didn't choose this. No one would.

[Common Sense]

Ah, yes... the last bastion of those with no rational arguments to make... accuse those who disagree with you of being "hateful and scared".

I am neither of those things. I would suggest that YOU are both. You hate those who will not bow before the altar of political correctness and you fear being labeled "hateful and scared" so much that would rather perpetuate a lie than stand up and tell the truth.
Well that's how you come off. You seem to have zero compassion for these people.

I don't give a shit about political correctness. I do however give a shit about compassion.

There is no lie here.

[Common Sense]

What the hell should I say?I can't tell,you presented this as a she male,how can I tell?

Then what's the big deal? If you can't tell...why can't she use the ladies bathroom?

[resister]

I wonder why we have gone since the dawn of time with this as a non issue and now this is a thing?WTF.Like the former military motto,dont ask, don't tell

[resister]

Then what's the big deal? If you can't tell...why can't she use the ladies bathroom?Very good question.

[Common Sense]

I wonder why we have gone since the dawn of time with this as a non issue and now this is a thing?WTF.Like the former military motto,dont ask, don't tell
They've both been issues for a long time. They just weren't issues that affected you.

[resister]

They've both been issues for a long time. They just weren't issues that affected you.Never heard of this before this election cycle.Never seen a chick pee in a urinal standing beside me

[resister]

Very good question.

^ what about this ^ ?

[Cletus]

Well that's how you come off. You seem to have zero compassion for these people.

I don't give a shit about political correctness. I do however give a shit about compassion.

There is no lie here.

Maybe not a deliberate one.

If you had true compassion for them, you would want to help them. You don't do that be feeding their delusions and forcing others to feed their delusions. You would subject a young girl to sharing a restroom with a male just to make the make the male feel better in his delusion. What about the real victim? Where is your compassion for her?

[Common Sense]

Never heard of this before this election cycle.Never seen a chick pee in a urinal standing beside me
It has nothing to do with the election cycle. Trans people make up less than half a percent of Americans. Why would it benefit anyone politically to support them?

[resister]

It has nothing to do with the election cycle. Trans people make up less than half a percent of Americans. Why would it benefit anyone politically to support them?
Victim group identity polotics

[Common Sense]

Maybe not a deliberate one.

If you had true compassion for them, you would want to help them. You don't do that be feeding their delusions and forcing others to feed their delusions. You would subject a young girl to sharing a restroom with a male just to make the make the male feel better in his delusion. What about the real victim? Where is your compassion for her?
It's not a delusion. I have known two trans people and neither of them were delusional. Both were raised as boys, but from childhood they knew they were girls. Sex at birth and gender don't always match up. People don't choose this. Gender dysphoria is a rare, but legitimate condition. You mock them and treat them as delusional. That's not compassion.

I'm not subjecting anyone to anything. That's what you are doing.

You can feign compassion now, but I don't buy it.

[Common Sense]

Victim group identity polotics

Bullshit..even they make up a tiny portion. The reality is, supporting these issues alienates many people. It's not a winning political strategy.

They are advocating for them because it's the right thing to do.

[resister]

You still don't address the little girls that have a dude in the bathroom.You focus on the dude and to hell with the girls

[resister]

They are advocating for them because it's the right thing to do.
^ this is pure bovine fecal matter^ democrats care for your vote,the rest of the time,taxes are their primary concern,dont feed me that garbage.NOTE, the same can largely be said about republicans,just not to the same extent

[Cletus]

Victim group identity polotics

I really think it has less to do with politics than it does with the need of some people, mostly Leftists to feel good about themselves. They love to pick ridiculous clauses and then make so much noise about them that eventually, they get their way just because people are tired of listening to them.

They will take some poor, mentally ill, confused kid... let's say a boy who thinks he is a girl, and tell him it is okay for him to think he is a girl and if he really wants to be a girl, people should respect that and treat him in all things like he is a girl. They don't care that they are screwing that kid up for life. What they care about is being able to look in a mirror and tell themselves that they did something good by helping that kid cement his delusion that he is a girl.

It is all about making themselves feel good about themselves. It has nothing to do with real compassion or a desire to actually help someone else.

[Common Sense]

You still don't address the little girls that have a dude in the bathroom.You focus on the dude and to hell with the girls
There are less than half a percent of trans people in the US. I focus on the "dude", as you so compassionately put it, because they are the ones being denied. No one is in danger from a trans woman pissing in the bathroom. Trans people however are in danger of being arrested for taking a piss.

Why is so much of conservative politics based in fear? Fear of gays, fear of transexuals, fear of muslims, fear of Mexicans....there seems to be a trend.

[resister]

There are less than half a percent of trans people in the US. I focus on the "dude", as you so compassionately put it, because they are the ones being denied. No one is in danger from a trans woman pissing in the bathroom. Trans people however are in danger of being arrested for taking a piss.

Why is so much of conservative politics based in fear? Fear of gays, fear of transexuals, fear of muslims, fear of Mexicans....there seems to be a trend.
So has a she male or he she been arrested for this?If so what was the disposistion?

[resister]

I really think it has less to do with politics than it does with the need of some people, mostly Leftists to feel good about themselves. They love to pick ridiculous clauses and then make so much noise about them that eventually, they get their way just because people are tired of listening to them.

They will take some poor, mentally ill, confused kid... let's say a boy who thinks he is a girl, and tell him it is okay for him to think he is a girl and if he really wants to be a girl, people should respect that and treat him in all things like he is a girl. They don't care that they are screwing that kid up for life. What they care about is being able to look in a mirror and tell themselves that they did something good by helping that kid cement his delusion that he is a girl.

It is all about making themselves feel good about themselves. It has nothing to do with real compassion or a desire to actually help someone else.
Largely correct, but don't forget including all the minorities in a bid to seem "diverse".We white hetero males are marginilized

[Common Sense]

I really think it has less to do with politics than it does with the need of some people, mostly Leftists to feel good about themselves. They love to pick ridiculous clauses and then make so much noise about them that eventually, they get their way just because people are tired of listening to them.

They will take some poor, mentally ill, confused kid... let's say a boy who thinks he is a girl, and tell him it is okay for him to think he is a girl and if he really wants to be a girl, people should respect that and treat him in all things like he is a girl. They don't care that they are screwing that kid up for life. What they care about is being able to look in a mirror and tell themselves that they did something good by helping that kid cement his delusion that he is a girl.

It is all about making themselves feel good about themselves. It has nothing to do with real compassion or a desire to actually help someone else.
You're projecting.

For me, in all honesty, the issue is simply about being compassionate to these people who already face discrimination. Particularly from people like you. It's simply the right thing to do.

To you it's a "ridiculous cause". To them it's their life.

Your argument is simplistic and naive. Thankfully medical professionals today don't share your backwards mindset. The world will progress along without you just fine. Just watch out for public bathrooms...some delusional tranny might get you.

[Cletus]

It's not a delusion. I have known two trans people and neither of them were delusional. Both were raised as boys, but from childhood they knew they were girls. Sex at birth and gender don't always match up. People don't choose this. Gender dysphoria is a rare, but legitimate condition.

They are mentally ill. A male who thinks he is female is delusional. There is no other way to describe it... at least not if you are interested in being honest.


You mock them and treat them as delusional.

I have never "mocked" anyone with that condition. They are however, delusional. They need psychological treatment, not a bunch of "I wanna feel good about myself so I am going to feed this kid's delusion" types making things worse.


I'm not subjecting anyone to anything. That's what you are doing.

Of course you are. What you are doing is not much different from telling a cancer patient that if he doesn't want to have cancer, it isn't cancer and there is no need to have it treated.

[Common Sense]

Largely correct, but don't forget including all the minorities in a bid to seem "diverse".We white hetero males are marginilized
Yeah, we're such victims. I tell ya, being a white heterosexual male is tough on me sometimes. All those queers and browns are so lucky. They have it so easy these days.

[resister]

Please tell us about bathroom arrests

[Cletus]

You're projecting.

For me, in all honesty, the issue is simply about being compassionate to these people who already face discrimination. Particularly from people like you. It's simply the right thing to do.

To you it's a "ridiculous cause". To them it's their life.

Your argument is simplistic and naive. Thankfully medical professionals today don't share your backwards mindset. The world will progress along without you just fine. Just watch out for public bathrooms...some delusional tranny might get you.

Okay, once again you are reduced to stupid comments and petty insults.

You just hate it when people point out that you are exactly what you claim others are... someone who wants to make himself feel good, regardless of the cost to others. You would throw these kids to the wolves and encourage them to mutilate themselves and live in their world of delusions because it is easier than trying to get them to face reality and get the help they really need.

[resister]

We are on the internet arguing about bathrooms at nearly 3 am, tell me, who really has the problem here?

[Cletus]

We are on the internet arguing about bathrooms at nearly 3 am, tell me, who really has the problem here?

I am still working, but have a little lull between events. You must be back East somewhere. Here in the Rockies,, it is just coming up on 0100.

[resister]

I am still working, but have a little lull between events. You must be back East somewhere. Here in the Rockies,, it is just coming up on 0100.I'm just sittin here havinn a nightcap in fl.Fun times

[resister]

I'm still waitin to hear about these bathroom arrests?

[Newpublius]

And besides,how do you know whats under the hood?

Exactly.....

[Standing Wolf]

The MALE goes the MALE restroom and the FEMALE goes to the FEMALE restroom. If they are uncomfortable doing that, they can either stop pretending to be something they are not, or cross their legs until they get home.

Imagine yourself being forced to go in the women's bathroom. Imagine how the women already in there would feel and what they would think. It isn't just a matter of the transgender individual's "comfort" - it's everyone's.

[Scrounger]

Do you want to try answering the question, r? Which would be more disruptive...letting the bearded individual go ahead and use the men's room and the cute blonde use the lady's room, or forcing them to abide by their birth certificates?

The 500-pound gorilla in the room is that politicians who have made a living out of pandering to the Religious Right have lost the battle to forbid same-sex marriage and are simply looking for another "hook".

There is one thing I've learned on this board:

I don't answer your questions. You're not smart enough to have productive conversations. You do all you can to piss people off for not agreeing with you and then call them names. The mods apparently support your style. When I let you know that what you said was offensive and basically fighting words, the mods give ME the infraction.

I don't owe you spit, so no, I won't be answering your questions. You aren't mature enough to have a conversation without calling people names.

[Standing Wolf]

Cletus, resister...I have to say that you both seem to have come down on the side of a particular ideology here, while tossing practicality out the window. You are presented with examples of individuals who couldn't look more feminine or masculine - including a young teen - and are saying, with the discussion board equivalent of a straight face, that you want to see them use the public restroom of the sex they don't look the least bit like...and the comfort, sense of safety and privacy of anyone else in the area be damned.

Cletus, although we've never met in person, I've been reading your take on everything under the sun for years now, and I feel as though I have a pretty good handle on who you are as a person. Resister, I've read enough of your stuff to believe that, like Cletus, you're a sincere and honest guy - and while I don't often agree with your comments, there is a definite streak of practicality running through your views. To both of you, I would say that it's one thing to hold and even express the ideology-based belief that transgendered individuals are just "sick" or delusional - but to go from that position to wanting the law to force folks who are clearly and visibly "feminine" or "masculine" to disrupt everybody's day by using the facilities they very obviously do not belong in, is impractical to the point of unreality.

[Peter1469]

The fear meme is dead. Please cease using it.


There are less than half a percent of trans people in the US. I focus on the "dude", as you so compassionately put it, because they are the ones being denied. No one is in danger from a trans woman pissing in the bathroom. Trans people however are in danger of being arrested for taking a piss.

Why is so much of conservative politics based in fear? Fear of gays, fear of transexuals, fear of muslims, fear of Mexicans....there seems to be a trend.

[Standing Wolf]

The fear meme is dead. Please cease using it.

How can you say it's "dead" when every time this subject comes up, some elected cheap suit is telling the cameras, "Do you want to send your little girl into a bathroom with adult men?" (Or even more graphic variations.) If that isn't the "fear meme", what is it?

[Peter1469]

How can you say it's "dead" when every time this subject comes up, some elected cheap suit is telling the cameras, "Do you want to send your little girl into a bathroom with adult men?" (Or even more graphic variations.) If that isn't the "fear meme", what is it?
It isn't fear....

Stop the meme. It is old and tired.

[Standing Wolf]

It isn't fear....

Stop the meme. It is old and tired.

So, not wanting to send your daughter into a bathroom with "a grown man" is not fear, it's...?

[Tricia]

So, not wanting to send your daughter into a bathroom with "a grown man" is not fear, it's...?

Common sense. :)

[resister]

Cletus, resister...I have to say that you both seem to have come down on the side of a particular ideology here, while tossing practicality out the window. You are presented with examples of individuals who couldn't look more feminine or masculine - including a young teen - and are saying, with the discussion board equivalent of a straight face, that you want to see them use the public restroom of the sex they don't look the least bit like...and the comfort, sense of safety and privacy of anyone else in the area be damned.

Cletus, although we've never met in person, I've been reading your take on everything under the sun for years now, and I feel as though I have a pretty good handle on who you are as a person. Resister, I've read enough of your stuff to believe that, like Cletus, you're a sincere and honest guy - and while I don't often agree with your comments, there is a definite streak of practicality running through your views. To both of you, I would say that it's one thing to hold and even express the ideology-based belief that transgendered individuals are just "sick" or delusional - but to go from that position to wanting the law to force folks who are clearly and visibly "feminine" or "masculine" to disrupt everybody's day by using the facilities they very obviously do not belong in, is impractical to the point of unreality.
I just think it is ridiculous that the government is spending time and resources on this,when there are so many real problems that need fixing.This micro management was a another nail in the democratic coffin this cycle.

It was like they were having a slow day or something

[Standing Wolf]

Common sense.

Not an answer.

[Cletus]

Imagine yourself being forced to go in the women's bathroom. Imagine how the women already in there would feel and what they would think. It isn't just a matter of the transgender individual's "comfort" - it's everyone's.

I am a MALE. There is no reason for me to go into the women's bathroom.

If some woman wants to dress up like a guy, get hormone shots and grow a beard, and do whatever else her mental illness or Liberal enablers drive her to do, it doesn't change the fact that she is a WOMAN.

Abe Lincoln said it best... He once asked a guy "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?" The guy responded with "Five?" to which Lincoln responded... "No, four. Calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg."

[Cletus]

There is one thing I've learned on this board:

I don't answer your questions. You're not smart enough to have productive conversations. You do all you can to piss people off for not agreeing with you and then call them names. The mods apparently support your style. When I let you know that what you said was offensive and basically fighting words, the mods give ME the infraction.

I don't owe you spit, so no, I won't be answering your questions. You aren't mature enough to have a conversation without calling people names.

Standing Wolf is actually one of the more astute posters I have come across in my almost 30 years of participating in these forums. I don't agree with him on some issues, but it is always easy to follow his line of reasoning and he generally doesn't post unless he believes there is a point to be made.

[Cletus]

Cletus, resister...I have to say that you both seem to have come down on the side of a particular ideology here, while tossing practicality out the window. You are presented with examples of individuals who couldn't look more feminine or masculine - including a young teen - and are saying, with the discussion board equivalent of a straight face, that you want to see them use the public restroom of the sex they don't look the least bit like...and the comfort, sense of safety and privacy of anyone else in the area be damned.

Cletus, although we've never met in person, I've been reading your take on everything under the sun for years now, and I feel as though I have a pretty good handle on who you are as a person. Resister, I've read enough of your stuff to believe that, like Cletus, you're a sincere and honest guy - and while I don't often agree with your comments, there is a definite streak of practicality running through your views. To both of you, I would say that it's one thing to hold and even express the ideology-based belief that transgendered individuals are just "sick" or delusional - but to go from that position to wanting the law to force folks who are clearly and visibly "feminine" or "masculine" to disrupt everybody's day by using the facilities they very obviously do not belong in, is impractical to the point of unreality.

I know some women here who are more masculine than just about any guy I have ever met. They are real knuckle draggers. Yet, they are unmistakably female. They don't take hormone shots or have surgery done. They are more "manly" than most men. Should they be allowed to use the male restroom? What is the difference between them and the photos that were posted other than appearance?

[Standing Wolf]

I just think it is ridiculous that the government is spending time and resources on this,when there are so many real problems that need fixing.This micro management was a another nail in the democratic coffin this cycle.

It was like they were having a slow day or something

The initial move by the federal government was overly broad, to be sure. The concern was for the welfare of a relative few transgendered children who were being harassed and humiliated, not only by other students but by their teachers and administrators. If you're genuinely interested in getting both sides of the story, you should make an effort to find their stories on the Internet; it isn't hard to do, and it's heartbreaking, especially if you're a parent, to hear what some of them have had to deal with.

Yes, Cletus, I know what your response will be, 'cause I've heard it before: these kids shouldn't be coddled and abetted in their "delusions", but given therapy to make them toughen up and accept the body and the gender identity they were born with, rather than go to artificial lengths to indulge a fantasy. (Did I get that about right?) Nice if the world and the human brain were that uncomplicated, but they are not.

When I say that I think the initial government dictate was overly broad, I mean - as I have written here previously - that the idea of including locker rooms is patently unrealistic and wrong-headed. Put simply and in a nutshell, people generally don't undress and parade around in the nude, shower, etc., in a public bathroom. Most transgendered individuals, and pretty much all such people who are of school age, have not been surgically altered. It doesn't take much of an imagination to envision what a strict adherence to that edict would result in, and none of it good.

[Standing Wolf]

I know some women here who are more masculine than just about any guy I have ever met. They are real knuckle draggers. Yet, they are unmistakably female. They don't take hormone shots or have surgery done. They are more "manly" than most men. Should they be allowed to use the male restroom? What is the difference between them and the photos that were posted other than appearance?

You confused me with that last question, C. I'm not sure how you can qualify your question by saying "other than appearance" when appearance is probably going to be the best answer to the question.

Since this whole controversy arose, I've read about at least one instance - and I've no doubt there have been others - where a woman, born and raised as such and everything, was accosted by someone in or around a public restroom and accused of being a man because they looked, to someone, too masculine to be a "real" woman. What is a woman in that position supposed to do?

I don't know, to be honest I don't pay a whole lot of attention to what the other people in a public restroom look like. Being a guy, especially, and observing Guy Etiquette, I could probably be in a bathroom with a three-armed man for five minutes and miss it.

To try to address your question, though...should a very masculine woman who - as far as anyone knows - identifies as a woman be allowed to use the men's room? I guess I'd have to wonder why she would want to, but...if she were really that masculine, would anyone care if she did? I mean, someone who looked like Jennifer Lopez would be a distraction, but a woman who looked more than a bit like Hoss Cartwright? Who would that bother?

[Cletus]

The initial move by the federal government was overly broad, to be sure. The concern was for the welfare of a relative few transgendered children who were being harassed and humiliated, not only by other students but by their teachers and administrators. If you're genuinely interested in getting both sides of the story, you should make an effort to find their stories on the Internet; it isn't hard to do, and it's heartbreaking, especially if you're a parent, to hear what some of them have had to deal with.

Yes, Cletus, I know what your response will be, 'cause I've heard it before: these kids shouldn't be coddled and abetted in their "delusions", but given therapy to make them toughen up and accept the body and the gender identity they were born with, rather than go to artificial lengths to indulge a fantasy. (Did I get that about right?) Nice if the world and the human brain were that uncomplicated, but they are not.

What they believe or want to believe is irrelevant. What matters is what they ARE. There are more people in the world than just them. You are suggesting that THEIR comfort and security and whatever emotional issues they may have to deal with after being forced to share a common restroom with someone of the opposite sex are of no importance. They can just suck it up so the mentally ill minority can be made comfortable.

[Standing Wolf]

What they believe or want to believe is irrelevant. What matters is what they ARE. There are more people in the world than just them. You are suggesting that THEIR comfort and security and whatever emotional issues they may have to deal with after being forced to share a common restroom with someone of the opposite sex are of no importance. They can just suck it up so the mentally ill minority can be made comfortable.

If this individual is forced to go the bathroom with boys, is anyone going to be comfortable?


http://cdn.realscreen.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Jazz-Jennings.jpg?fb449b

[Scrounger]

Standing Wolf is actually one of the more astute posters I have come across in my almost 30 years of participating in these forums. I don't agree with him on some issues, but it is always easy to follow his line of reasoning and he generally doesn't post unless he believes there is a point to be made.

Unfortunately, I did not have that experience. His name calling and false assumptions made any attempt at civil discourse impossible.

[Dustup]

And besides,how do you know whats under the hood?
You can tell by the drive, even if the axle has been removed the drive is still there.........

[pjohns]

Actually, in many cases, it's not any kind of surgery.

I am not at all interested in pre-op "transgender" people. They should use the restroom corresponding to their current anatomy--whichever gender that may be.

[Peter1469]

This proves that this is a manufactured issue. If this person goes into the women's room without shouting that he is a he, nobody would know.

SJW need to get a life.

If this individual is forced to go the bathroom with boys, is anyone going to be comfortable?


http://cdn.realscreen.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Jazz-Jennings.jpg?fb449b

[Common Sense]

This proves that this is a manufactured issue. If this person goes into the women's room without shouting that he is a he, nobody would know.

SJW need to get a life.
You couldn't be more wrong. The law in question wasn't created by SJW's. It was created by conservatives. The issue was manufactured by them.

[Dustup]

You couldn't be more wrong. The law in question wasn't created by SJW's. It was created by conservatives. The issue was manufactured by them.
Your brand of "Common Sense" reminds me of a degenerate mind thinking........

[stjames1_53]

You couldn't be more wrong. The law in question wasn't created by SJW's. It was created by conservatives. The issue was manufactured by them.
so, you're blaming conservatives for those folks who claim something different sexually? No wonder you guys lost this election.