Will Trump do more to preserve liberties and freedoms?

[Captain Obvious]

Under teh O'bama administration we saw the virtual rape and slaughter of our personal liberties and freedoms. We, collectively, were made more dependent on our federal government, it's policies, laws and programs. Our personal freedoms and privacy were devastated, we allowed it to happen though.

Will Trump continue down this road? Will freedom and liberty destroying legislation like the Patriot Act continue to be jammed down our throats, will freedom of information continue to be such that we are ranked down there with China and North Korea?

Or will Trump be the champion for liberties and freedoms and loosen the federal stranglehold on our privacy?

For the record, I'm guessing the former.

[Cthulhu]

I'm inclined to agree.

Fear profits a man nothing.

[Scrounger]

Under teh O'bama administration we saw the virtual rape and slaughter of our personal liberties and freedoms. We, collectively, were made more dependent on our federal government, it's policies, laws and programs. Our personal freedoms and privacy were devastated, we allowed it to happen though.

Will Trump continue down this road? Will freedom and liberty destroying legislation like the Patriot Act continue to be jammed down our throats, will freedom of information continue to be such that we are ranked down there with China and North Korea?

Or will Trump be the champion for liberties and freedoms and loosen the federal stranglehold on our privacy?

For the record, I'm guessing the former.
First: MERRY CHRISTMAS


Okay, let me address my own opinion on this. Trump has picked Mike Pompeo to head the CIA. Let me quote something for you:

"Kansas Republican Congressman Mike Pompeo, nominated by Donald Trump to be the next CIA director, insists (http://www.wsj.com/articles/time-for-a-rigorous-national-debate-about-surveillance-1451856106)that all “Legal and bureaucratic impediments to surveillance should be removed,” and seeks the creation of a comprehensive, immediately accessible database that would effectively contain all information about everything everybody does, anywhere on the planet."

http://www.libertynewsdaily.com/ Dec. 21, 2016

Ever since the name was mentioned, my research keeps turning up the same information. So, I am required to do a disclaimer before going on. I do not vote for Democrats. The last thing we need is the nanny state as envisioned by Democrats.

That being said, we cannot blame Democrats for the creation of the Dept. of Homeland (IN)Security, the so - called "Patriot Act," National ID / REAL ID Act, E Verify, the evisceration of the Fourth Amendment and the current womb to the tomb mindset that is destroying our Freedoms and Liberties. ALL of that is the work of the Republicans. Obama has added fuel to the fire. But, at the end of the day, the Democrats gave you the Nanny State while the Republicans were busy giving us the ultimate POLICE STATE.

BOTH positions are antithetical to the foundational principles of Freedom and Liberty. Honestly, the people that Trump is picking demonstrates that he is as far away from understanding the Constitution and our foundational principles as much as Hillary Clinton is.

Pray for the president. Don't expect much. If you get any concessions, treat them as a blessing.

[Captain Obvious]

First, no - I don't blame democrats exclusively, I do blame the establishment exclusively. Republican legislators are equally as responsible. But a lot of this happened on teh O'bama's watch, that is worth noting. What is also worth noting is that I'm not praying for anything. I'm expecting results and if they're not there then I'm going to protest and support their ouster. People get what they pay for, not what they pray for.

Second, wot...

[patrickt]

A. The move to make the federal government all powerful and the states meaningless certainly started before Barack Obama.
B. The loss of freedoms certainly started well before Barack Obama.
C. Donald Trump is a lifelong Democrat so we simply have to wait and see how good or bad he will be.
D. I don't think for a minute a man so shallow as to say there is no such thing as too greedy has any concept of the importance of freedom for others.

[Scrounger]

First, no - I don't blame democrats exclusively, I do blame the establishment exclusively. Republican legislators are equally as responsible. But a lot of this happened on teh O'bama's watch, that is worth noting. What is also worth noting is that I'm not praying for anything. I'm expecting results and if they're not there then I'm going to protest and support their ouster. People get what they pay for, not what they pray for.

Second, wot...

The things I mentioned happened on the Republicans watch. What did Obama do with respect to this issue... other than fund a lot of it and add his own Executive Orders, etc.???

[Captain Obvious]

The things I mentioned happened on the Republicans watch. What did Obama do with respect to this issue... other than fund a lot of it and add his own Executive Orders, etc.???

There were a number of non-descript bills that passed with legislation stuffed in them limiting our privacy.

I would have to go dig them up, they're really non-descript. You should be aware of them, if not - shame on you. I just can't cite them from memory but I'm aware of them.

Then there was the dependency issues that I pointed out. It's a package deal.

[Scrounger]

There were a number of non-descript bills that passed with legislation stuffed in them limiting our privacy.

I would have to go dig them up, they're really non-descript. You should be aware of them, if not - shame on you. I just can't cite them from memory but I'm aware of them.

Then there was the dependency issues that I pointed out. It's a package deal.
I've stipulated to most of what you say. I'm just not allowing the Republicans off the hook.

Back in about 1998, being opposed to One World Government / the NEW WORLD ORDER, National ID (especially based on the SSN) and the opposition to the so - called "Patriot Act" (years before the Establishment admitted it had been written) were right wing issues. Today, you'd think the only people concerned with this stuff come from the left. It all began changing around Y2K.

The way I look at it, the people changed. What was good in 1998 is bad and vice versa.

[Captain Obvious]

I've stipulated to most of what you say. I'm just not allowing the Republicans off the hook.

Back in about 1998, being opposed to One World Government / the NEW WORLD ORDER, National ID (especially based on the SSN) and the opposition to the so - called "Patriot Act" (years before the Establishment admitted it had been written) were right wing issues. Today, you'd think the only people concerned with this stuff come from the left. It all began changing around Y2K.

The way I look at it, the people changed. What was good in 1998 is bad and vice versa.

Nor should you, that is really the premise of the thread.

I've stated as much that I don't expect a change here, business as usual on this front. We'll get some puppet show to distract us and our freedoms and liberties will continue to erode.

But the best part is, we, collectively will just sit back and watch.

That's the part that infuriates me.

[Chris]

Dems want a nanny state, Reps a daddy state, when most the people grown ups.

[Scrounger]

Having survived the conservatives like the National Review and the and the Birch Society all the way through Freemen, tax protestors and the militia and on to the Reform Party, self proclaimed Minutemen and the Tea Party, not a whole lot gets accomplished.

Every time a new "movement" (for lack of a more descriptive adjective) gets going, it gets taken over by some rich or larger effort that dismantles it OR the government pummels it into the ground. We aren't the first to sit by and take it. Thomas Jefferson observed:

"all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." (excerpt from the Declaration of Independence)

While we sit and twiddle our thumbs our Freedoms are eroding and with each lost Liberty, the prospect of living in a tyrannical dictatorship becomes more and more of a reality. If I knew what to do to get people off their lazy rumps and sit down, in person, and commit to preserving Liberties, I'd do it. In the meantime, unless and until the grid goes down and you don't have the Internet, cell phones, three hots and a cot, a cold beer, a warm woman and the ball games, you probably won't do a lot.

[Chris]

In short, "The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P. J. O'Rourke

[Hal Jordan]

Trump is establishment and will continue eroding our freedoms.

[Captain Obvious]

Trump is establishment and will continue eroding our freedoms.

Disagree with the former, agree with the latter.

Respectfully.

[Hal Jordan]

Disagree with the former, agree with the latter.

Respectfully.

He's just from the other side than we're used to seeing. Being the buyer doesn't make him any less establishment.

[Captain Obvious]

He's just from the other side than we're used to seeing. Being the buyer doesn't make him any less establishment.

I get that, but he's not political. He's private sector.

Establishment implies that politicians strive to maintain the political establishment. Trump is a Capitalist and from what I understand he was a life-long democrat, which isn't political from where I see it, it's "what's in it for me".

This is a new gambit for him, he's going to have to figure out the political game. Or he can just come out shooting, the latter being an ok thing for me all things considered.

It's going to be fun either way.

[Hal Jordan]

I get that, but he's not political. He's private sector.

Establishment implies that politicians strive to maintain the political establishment. Trump is a Capitalist and from what I understand he was a life-long democrat, which isn't political from where I see it, it's "what's in it for me".

This is a new gambit for him, he's going to have to figure out the political game. Or he can just come out shooting, the latter being an ok thing for me all things considered.

It's going to be fun either way.

His whole existence is politics. Sure, he isn't standard Washington politician politics, but he is a showman. That's the heart of who he is and the heart of a Washington politician.

Saying what you need to to get what you want: Check
Doing what you were going to regardless of what you say: Check
Spinning what you do in order to make yourself look good: Check
Screwing over masses of people in order to make it happen: Check

Really, the main difference between him and the Washington elite is that he's been one that was actually in control. His whole existence has been politics. He's just entered a different phase of politics, one that's new for everyone. The money visibly in control.

[Hal Jordan]

Either way, it is going to be a huge show, good or bad. We were screwed either way, at least this way, it's going to be entertaining.

[birddog]

As Reagan said, "Certainly better than the alternative." That fits the election of Trump. I'm a bit more optimistic, especially in the selection of SC and federal judges. Strengthening our borders WILL be better and our home security. Jobs will be improved by getting rid of some of Obama's regulations. etc

I'm a realist, so I daresay everything will not be accomplished like we hope, but I shudder the think what we would have to look forward to if Hillary had been elected. Merry Christmas.

[resister]

We shall see, I think he will be hard pressed to do worse than obummer.He could f up a soup sammich

[Ethereal]

I highly doubt it.

[Chris]

Disagree with the former, agree with the latter.

Respectfully.


In winning however he has become establishment. It's not like as if Ron Paul won and was poised to start dismantling the government to Constitutional size.

[Chris]

As Reagan said, "Certainly better than the alternative." That fits the election of Trump. I'm a bit more optimistic, especially in the selection of SC and federal judges. Strengthening our borders WILL be better and our home security. Jobs will be improved by getting rid of some of Obama's regulations. etc

I'm a realist, so I daresay everything will not be accomplished like we hope, but I shudder the think what we would have to look forward to if Hillary had been elected. Merry Christmas.



Trump: "I'm Here to Help."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhYJS80MgYA

[Scerab]

...You poor misguided souls...
trump is a billionaire and a businessman. To him every venture is about one thing and one thing only...PROFIT!
you think trump, even in his old rant age, cares about the American stooge, A.K.A the American tax payer? NO HE DOES NOT!
the conflict of interest is unbelievable...
all of a sudden the millionaires and billionaires are running towards government positions like flies around stinky honey...

who wins?
RICH PEOPLE

who loses?
the American stooge...

keep believing in what trump said in the campaign...
time will tell truth and I am sure it will be in favor of the billionaires

[Subdermal]

...You poor misguided souls...
trump is a billionaire and a businessman. To him every venture is about one thing and one thing only...PROFIT!
you think trump, even in his old rant age, cares about the American stooge, A.K.A the American tax payer? NO HE DOES NOT!
the conflict of interest is unbelievable...
all of a sudden the millionaires and billionaires are running towards government positions like flies around stinky honey...

who wins?
RICH PEOPLE

who loses?
the American stooge...

keep believing in what trump said in the campaign...
time will tell truth and I am sure it will be in favor of the billionaires
You've already been refuted.

If he truly can control 'insider' influence in Washington, while also erasing regulations and lowering taxation, anyone who wants to succeed will have a better chance of doing so, and a better chance of retaining that which they've earned.

stop playing class warfare based upon nothing more than your own hatred of success.

[Subdermal]

Under teh O'bama administration we saw the virtual rape and slaughter of our personal liberties and freedoms. We, collectively, were made more dependent on our federal government, it's policies, laws and programs. Our personal freedoms and privacy were devastated, we allowed it to happen though.

Will Trump continue down this road? Will freedom and liberty destroying legislation like the Patriot Act continue to be jammed down our throats, will freedom of information continue to be such that we are ranked down there with China and North Korea?

Or will Trump be the champion for liberties and freedoms and loosen the federal stranglehold on our privacy?

For the record, I'm guessing the former.
If Trump nominates someone from his predeclared list of SCOTUS nominees, he will have done more than Bush (who did the opposite, as Roberts proved to be a wolf in sheep's clothing).

So yes: automatically. The SCOTUS determines this as much as anything else does.

In addition, taxes are slavery, and to the degree one must pay them dictates the degree to which they're free. Trump supports lowering them. If he succeeds, he will have done more for liberty and freedom than any President in recent memory.

[Scerab]

You've already been refuted.

If he truly can control 'insider' influence in Washington, while also erasing regulations and lowering taxation, anyone who wants to succeed will have a better chance of doing so, and a better chance of retaining that which they've earned.

stop playing class warfare based upon nothing more than your own hatred of success.
Success?
you call starving children a success?
Homeless elderly and veterans a success?
Rampant poverty and income inequality a success?
It is this ilk that is the disease the cancer that must be purged from humanity if we are ever to thrive.

[resister]

Success?
you call starving children a success?
Homeless elderly and veterans a success?
Rampant poverty and income inequality a success?
It is this ilk that is the disease the cancer that must be purged from humanity if we are ever to thrive.He's not president yet, I wonder who is responsible?

[Scerab]

He's not president yet, I wonder who is responsible?
The greedy billionaires who own the red and own the blues...
you think things will be different with trump? Have they ever been different?
Ever since the terrible Woodrow Wilson passed the federal reserve law, it's been one punch after another to the American stooge...

[resister]

The greedy billionaires who own the red and own the blues...
you think things will be different with trump? Have they ever been different?
Ever since the terrible Woodrow Wilson passed the federal reserve law, it's been one punch after another to the American stooge...
All things must change, this is the only constant.

[Scerab]

All things must change, this is the only constant.
This is indeed great Wisdom...
but what is change?
Everything that begins, will end...
United States of America....
humanity...
Earth...
the Milky Way...

[resister]

This is indeed great Wisdom...
but what is change?
Everything that begins, will end...
United States of America....
humanity...
Earth...
the Milky Way...
I'm not sure exactly, but I look forward to whatever comes next

[Scerab]

I'm not sure exactly, but I look forward to whatever comes next
What comes next is the hilter of the USA.
Remember what happened to the Jews under nazi Germany?
It will happen to muslims under trumps USA.
There is already talk about a registery, and wearing identifying bands.
to me, when any one talks about the concentration camps of nazi Germany, I feel that I am inclined to mention the American concentration camps, which wrongfully and forcefully dislocated caused sever suffrage and even the deaths of many Japanese Americans.
I do admit that the American conserntration camps were not as savage as the russain or German ones. But they were there nonetheless...
what a joke I thought, when the red president bush, issued $25 grand to the victims of those American conserntration camps with an apology. The Effert counts for something at least...
Ours is a cruel nation...

[Captain Obvious]

lol

[Scerab]

lol
I am interested in knowing what is it that you find funny.
that is of course if you are generous enough to share it.

[Captain Obvious]

I am interested in knowing what is it that you find funny.
that is of course if you are generous enough to share it.

It's hard to find good lampshades anymore.

[resister]

What comes next is the hilter of the USA.
Remember what happened to the Jews under nazi Germany?
It will happen to muslims under trumps USA.
There is already talk about a registery, and wearing identifying bands.
to me, when any one talks about the concentration camps of nazi Germany, I feel that I am inclined to mention the American concentration camps, which wrongfully and forcefully dislocated caused sever suffrage and even the deaths of many Japanese Americans.
I do admit that the American conserntration camps were not as savage as the russain or German ones. But they were there nonetheless...
what a joke I thought, when the red president bush, issued $25 grand to the victims of those American conserntration camps with an apology. The Effert counts for something at least...
Ours is a cruel nation...So you believe trump is goin to round up and kill all muslims and take there property?.......i'm with captain on this one,A big LOL

[Scerab]

So you believe trump is goin to round up and kill all muslims and take there property?.......i'm with captain on this one,A big LOL

I don't think he can Do that even if he wanted to.
but he can still cause them harm and make them the subject of prosecution both by the public and the government.
Trump even now has shown little consideration for the Palestinian arabs by his recent UN escapade...
there are wars that American CAN NOT win... such examples include a war on china and a war on Islam.
Trump seems to want to go down that path...
if america is smart, it should not hinder Islam... soon all of the European counties will be led by Muslim moors...
the mayor of London is a Muslim...
and these are all nuclear and developed nations...

[resister]

The muslims leave us zero choice.The declared jihad on us.Ours is a war of reaction, not offense.

[Scerab]

The muslims leave us zero choice.The declared jihad on us.Ours is a war of reaction, not offense.
Tell me one respectable Muslim faction that declared war or jihad or what ever you want to call it on the Usa or its allies.
ISIS is a terrorist regime nothing more,they don't represent Muslims they have killed and tortured more Muslims then any people of other faiths.
Iran is playing the propaganda game, they hate the USA because of the sanctions. But did they declare war on any one? No. Why? Because they will be wiped off the face of the earth... even their retard mullahs know this. So they resorted to playing the propaganda game.

[resister]

I don't see the moderate ones condemning the savagery, by and large.Mohhamed told them kill the infidel where you find them.

[Scerab]

I don't see the moderate ones condemning the savagery, by and large.Mohhamed told them kill the infidel where you find them.

They are at war with ISIS...
they have lost people to this war and blood has been spelt...
what more condemnation do you want?
let me ask you people a question...
what are the counrites with the largest Muslim populations?
Keep in mind there are over 1.6 billion Muslims in the world today... and it is estimated that in less then a hundred years, there will be more Muslims then christians.

[Subdermal]

Success?
you call starving children a success?

:facepalm: Don't go off the rails.

Homeless elderly and veterans a success?
Rampant poverty and income inequality a success?
It is this ilk that is the disease the cancer that must be purged from humanity if we are ever to thrive.

No, it isn't. That's your secular pursuit of perfection; of allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good - and it's lunacy regardless, as it has nothing to do with this topic.

[Subdermal]

The greedy billionaires who own the red and own the blues...
you think things will be different with trump? Have they ever been different?
Ever since the terrible Woodrow Wilson passed the federal reserve law, it's been one punch after another to the American stooge...

Ok. Nothing will be different. Great. You've been so much help.

PS: Poverty cannot be solved with money. Poverty is a defect in mentality.

[Scerab]

:facepalm: Don't go off the rails.


No, it isn't. That's your secular pursuit of perfection; of allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good - and it's lunacy regardless, as it has nothing to do with this topic.

The fault is in our imperfection...
there is no good or bad
only humans... Imperfect and predatory humans...
i don't think it s a digression, because it is directly related to the outcome of the trumps rain of terror.
the billionaires will have more power to give them selves more and give the American stooge less...

[Subdermal]

Tell me one respectable Muslim faction that declared war or jihad or what ever you want to call it on the Usa or its allies.
ISIS is a terrorist regime nothing more,they don't represent Muslims they have killed and tortured more Muslims then any people of other faiths.
Iran is playing the propaganda game, they hate the USA because of the sanctions. But did they declare war on any one? No. Why? Because they will be wiped off the face of the earth... even their retard mullahs know this. So they resorted to playing the propaganda game.

What do you think of Erdogan?

[Scerab]

Ok. Nothing will be different. Great. You've been so much help.

PS: Poverty cannot be solved with money. Poverty is a defect in mentality.
Oh things will change... for the worse...
as they have always been changing.

Wow... wait a minute...
you calling the single mother who works three jobs to pay rent, mental?
you calling the couples who work 10 hours a day 6 days a week to put their kids through college, pay the mortgage and their own student loans. With barely enough to get by, mental?
While the wall mart employee in Germany works one job, has enough to rent and live and gets sick leave, paid holiday days and many others benefits.
Here the Walmart employees have Medicaid! Let the American stooge foot the bill.

[Scerab]

What do you think of Erdogan?
The nation of turkey is a member of NATO...
they are a US ally.

[Ravens Fan]

It's hard to find good lampshades anymore.

Please refrain from tasteless comments like the one above. It could be considered bad faith, even if it was sarcasm.

[resister]

Please refrain from tasteless comments like the one above. It could be considered bad faith, even if it was sarcasm.I was unaware you are now a mod, thanks for steppin up to the plate.

[patrickt]

Trump is establishment and will continue eroding our freedoms.
Maybe. But, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, and many of the others were "establishment".

[patrickt]

Maybe. But, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, and many of the others were "establishment".

My god, what kind of liberal site won't let you write John Hancock?

[Captain Obvious]

My god, what kind of liberal site won't let you write John Hancock?

Try tin foil

[patrickt]

Try tin foil
Why? Do liberals have an aversion to tinfoil? Do they think the Constitution was written on tinfoil?

[Captain Obvious]

Why? Do liberals have an aversion to tinfoil? Do they think the Constitution was written on tinfoil?

Yes, how did you guess?

[Common Sense]

LOL...liberal site.

[Subdermal]

The nation of turkey is a member of NATO...
they are a US ally.

I am asking what - specifically - you think of Erdogan.

[Bethere]

I am asking what - specifically - you think of Erdogan.

He'll tell you.
You'll call him a liar.
He'll explain.
You'll cry.
We'll laugh.

Haven't we already done this exercise?

[DGUtley]

Under teh O'bama administration we saw the virtual rape and slaughter of our personal liberties and freedoms. We, collectively, were made more dependent on our federal government, it's policies, laws and programs. Our personal freedoms and privacy were devastated, we allowed it to happen though. Will Trump continue down this road? Will freedom and liberty destroying legislation like the Patriot Act continue to be jammed down our throats, will freedom of information continue to be such that we are ranked down there with China and North Korea? Or will Trump be the champion for liberties and freedoms and loosen the federal stranglehold on our privacy? For the record, I'm guessing the former.

I hope the latter. It's bad now. Hopefully, he'll stay true to his pledge on the Court and we'll start to roll back to the true constitutional principles.

[Subdermal]

He'll tell you.

But he didn't tell me, did he? Why? And now that you've butted in, why don't you tell me what you think of Erdogann?

You'll call him a liar.
He'll explain.
You'll cry.
We'll laugh.

Haven't we already done this exercise?

What is your purpose in butting in here, speedbump?

[Bethere]

But he didn't tell me, did he? Why? And now that you've butted in, why don't you tell me what you think of Erdogann?


What is your purpose in butting in here, speedbump?

I'm not the topic. Neither are you nor Erdogan.

The topic is trump v civil liberties and freedom.

Why am I here? I was hoping to discuss those things.