Sanders vs Small Businesman

[Chris]

I've liked Sanders for his honestly not his policies. Here he shows his still in campaign mode repeating old points when confronted with new questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-qgjLMXc0k

[Newpublius]

I've liked Sanders for his honestly not his policies. Here he shows his still in campaign mode repeating old points when confronted with new questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-qgjLMXc0k

He deflected to large multinational companies.

[Chris]

He deflected to large multinational companies.

Right, that was a campaign talking point.

[Bob the Slob]

I've liked Sanders for his honestly not his policies. Here he shows his still in campaign mode repeating old points when confronted with new questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-qgjLMXc0k

No, he's showing the consistency in his policies which are decades old.

[Standing Wolf]

Sanders should have asked the man for an example of a regulation that he, personally, had to deal with that he believed was unfair or unnecessarily burdensome.

By the way, the guy was kind of a jerk - making faces, making noises, attempting to interrupt. He didn't come across as all that sympathetic a character.

In any case, though, he should not have been allowed to get away with asking such a vague, general question; Sanders would have done well to ask for a specific.

[Bob the Slob]

Sanders should have asked the man for an example of a regulation that he, personally, had to deal with that he believed was unfair or unnecessarily burdensome.

By the way, the guy was kind of a jerk - making faces, making noises, attempting to interrupt. He didn't come across as all that sympathetic a character.

In any case, though, he should not have been allowed to get away with asking such a vague, general question; Sanders would have done well to ask for a specific.
Cuomo planted such people all through the primaries....he's a scum

[Chris]

Sanders should have asked the man for an example of a regulation that he, personally, had to deal with that he believed was unfair or unnecessarily burdensome.

By the way, the guy was kind of a jerk - making faces, making noises, attempting to interrupt. He didn't come across as all that sympathetic a character.

In any case, though, he should not have been allowed to get away with asking such a vague, general question; Sanders would have done well to ask for a specific.



I don't disagree. I was hoping he'd give an example. If asked I would just say the number of regulations is overburdensome and requires an army of lawyers to deal with, just as it requires an army of bureaucrats to enforce, which a big corporation can afford but not a small businessman.

[del]

I don't disagree. I was hoping he'd give an example. If asked I would just say the number of regulations is overburdensome and requires an army of lawyers to deal with, just as it requires an army of bureaucrats to enforce, which a big corporation can afford but not a small businessman.
so you'd give no example, just generalized complaining.

[Chris]

so you'd give no example, just generalized complaining.

Specifically too many regulations.

Want a specific one? Minimum wage.

[Bob the Slob]

Specifically too many regulations.

Want a specific one? Minimum wage.
So corporations should just give what they want if they want to? Man's labor is worth nothing?

[Chris]

So corporations should just give what they want if they want to? Man's labor is worth nothing?

Context, context. The man's complaint was regulations are killing small businesses and Sander's went after large corporations. Consider, McDonald's is in favor of higher min wage. Why? It can afford higher min wages for a while knowing it puts many small sandwich shops, who can't afford it and can't afford to raise prices, out of business. So McD's regains market share. And then it automates those jobs anyhow. The government is doing it a favor.

[Newpublius]

So corporations should just give what they want if they want to? Man's labor is worth nothing?

Wow, I have a great business idea. I'll put an ad in the paper and offer to pay people $1/hr and then I'll rent some currently vacant lot and throw up a car wash and charge cars $5 for an interior/exterior wash.

What's the flaw in this plan?

[Captain Obvious]

Wow, I have a great business idea. I'll put an ad in the paper and offer to pay people $1/hr and then I'll rent some currently vacant lot and throw up a car wash and charge cars $5 for an interior/exterior wash.

What's the flaw in this plan?

Make it a topless car wash and no flaw whatsoever

[Dr. Who]

Wow, I have a great business idea. I'll put an ad in the paper and offer to pay people $1/hr and then I'll rent some currently vacant lot and throw up a car wash and charge cars $5 for an interior/exterior wash.

What's the flaw in this plan?

Your only employees would be 6-year-olds who can't reach the windshield.

[Bethere]

Specifically too many regulations.

Want a specific one? Minimum wage.

Minimum wage is law, not a regulation.

[Newpublius]

Your only employees would be 6-year-olds who can't reach the windshield.

Stools of course, that'll do the trick, but of course you hit on the obvious, at $1/hr I would be unable to command the labor resources necessary to operate the car wash.

Prices AREN'T arbitrary!

[Newpublius]

Minimum wage is law, not a regulation.

Laws can regulate and one can regulate by law. I really don't understand what the point of that meme is anyway.

[Newpublius]

Make it a topless car wash and no flaw whatsoever

Indeed, we could charge $1 admission to see 2017's remake of Cool Hand Luke.

[Chris]

Minimum wage is law, not a regulation.

Laws regulate. Taxes are regulations too. And regulations tax.

[Chris]

Stools of course, that'll do the trick, but of course you hit on the obvious, at $1/hr I would be unable to command the labor resources necessary to operate the car wash.

Prices AREN'T arbitrary!

Nor are they objective as lawmakers pretend.

[Standing Wolf]

Want a specific one? Minimum wage.

There has been a minimum wage since...well, I don't know when. I'm pretty sure there was one when I started working in 1972. Do you have another example?

Also, Chris...what small business person has ever had (or needed) "an army of lawyers" to stay in business? I have several friends with small businesses, and I happen to know that none of them has even one lawyer.

[del]

There has been a minimum wage since...well, I don't know when. I'm pretty sure there was one when I started working in 1972. Do you have another example?

Also, Chris...what small business person has ever had (or needed) "an army of lawyers" to stay in business? I have several friends with small businesses, and I happen to know that none of them has even one lawyer.
the minimum wage law was first passed in 1938

obviously, it's prevented the us economy from growing since its inception

/s

[Chris]

There has been a minimum wage since...well, I don't know when. I'm pretty sure there was one when I started working in 1972. Do you have another example?

Also, Chris...what small business person has ever had (or needed) "an army of lawyers" to stay in business? I have several friends with small businesses, and I happen to know that none of them has even one lawyer.

The fact there has been a min wage doesn't make it a good regulation.

Right, but they are at a disadvantage to big corporations that can afford an army of lawyers. That was the point.

[Chris]

the minimum wage law was first passed in 1938

obviously, it's prevented the us economy from growing since its inception

/s

You miss the point the economy could do better. No one argued the economy has failed. Nice strawman though.

[Newpublius]

There has been a minimum wage since...well, I don't know when. I'm pretty sure there was one when I started working in 1972. Do you have another example?

Also, Chris...what small business person has ever had (or needed) "an army of lawyers" to stay in business? I have several friends with small businesses, and I happen to know that none of them has even one lawyer.

Sure they do, I happen to be one as the case may be but for the most part when you have your business you need insurance and that insurance has a 'duty to defend' clause and of course the premiums are a function of this.

One of your employees sticks his dick in anothet employee's ear, you get sued.

Fact is vicarious liability of all varieties for all reasons imposes virtually unlimited liability on businesses and this is why you need to 'CYA' (cover your ass), because fact is you're going to get sued. The larger the business the more routine it becomes of course. The largest businesses of course its just a cost of doing business.

[Peter1469]

There has been a minimum wage since...well, I don't know when. I'm pretty sure there was one when I started working in 1972. Do you have another example?

Also, Chris...what small business person has ever had (or needed) "an army of lawyers" to stay in business? I have several friends with small businesses, and I happen to know that none of them has even one lawyer.

I think Chris's point is that the large businesses have armies of lawyers and large regulatory compliance departments. So they lobby for difficult regulations to place heavy burdens on their small business competitors (https://www.pacificresearch.org/fileadmin/images/Studies_2015/SmBusinessIndex_UpdatedVersion2_web.pdf).

The executive summary covers several examples.

[decedent]

I've liked Sanders for his honestly not his policies. Here he shows his still in campaign mode repeating old points when confronted with new questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-qgjLMXc0k

If that guy owned a small store where a Walmart is going to open, he may be wanting more regulations. It's tough for the little guy to compete in an unregulated market.

[Standing Wolf]

Sure they do, I happen to be one as the case may be but for the most part when you have your business you need insurance and that insurance has a 'duty to defend' clause and of course the premiums are a function of this.

One of your employees sticks his dick in anothet employee's ear, you get sued.

Fact is vicarious liability of all varieties for all reasons imposes virtually unlimited liability on businesses and this is why you need to 'CYA' (cover your ass), because fact is you're going to get sued. The larger the business the more routine it becomes of course. The largest businesses of course its just a cost of doing business.

Sorry to have to say this, N, but you seem to be deflecting almost as badly as Sanders did. Where (and what) are the "lots and lots of regulations" that require small business owners to employ "an army of lawyers"? Some business owners get sued - others never do...just like the owners of any property. Should business owners, in addition to being able to pay their workers as little as they want to, also be exempt from being sued? Not trying to be a dick, here - I'd simply like to get away from the hyperbole, exaggeration and lame examples and hear about that huge pile of regulations, i.e., what it actually consists of.

[Chris]

Sorry to have to say this, N, but you seem to be deflecting almost as badly as Sanders did. Where (and what) are the "lots and lots of regulations" that require small business owners to employ "an army of lawyers"? Some business owners get sued - others never do...just like the owners of any property. Should business owners, in addition to being able to pay their workers as little as they want to, also be exempt from being sued? Not trying to be a dick, here - I'd simply like to get away from the hyperbole, exaggeration and lame examples and hear about that huge pile of regulations, i.e., what it actually consists of.


It's the fact they can't afford to hire legions of lawyers that puts the small business at a disadvantage to big corporations. Remember, these small businesses are the backbone of the economy. And our great government gives advantage to corporate America.

[Chris]

If that guy owned a small store where a Walmart is going to open, he may be wanting more regulations. It's tough for the little guy to compete in an unregulated market.

The regulations favor Walmart. Remember when the min wage debate started? Walmart gave 500000 employees raises. They can afford what mom and pops cannot. And that's the regulated market.

[Standing Wolf]

The regulations favor Walmart. Remember when the min wage debate started? Walmart gave 500000 employees raises. They can afford what mom and pops cannot. And that's the regulated market.

Aside from the fact that they're not billionaires, and so can't afford to offer their employees the kinds of pay and benefits that WalMart is able to, what - in terms of regulation - is interfering with a small business owner being successful? So far we've heard "the minimum wage" - which isn't going away - and now we've heard that business owners can get sued - and what would the alternative to that situation be?

[Newpublius]

Aside from the fact that they're not billionaires, and so can't afford to offer their employees the kinds of pay and benefits that WalMart is able to, what - in terms of regulation - is interfering with a small business owner being successful? So far we've heard "the minimum wage" - which isn't going away - and now we've heard that business owners can get sued - and what would the alternative to that situation be?

I could right a disertation on this. Before I sold my business I was obviously in business and one aspect was retail, near a Walmart I might add, and the sign required approval from the town council.

But the list goes on:

1. general compliance with taxes
a. sales tax
b. the businesses taxes
c. payroll taxes

Just making sure the government gets its cut is a part time job.

2. licensing of all varieties. I don't care if its hair dresser or plumber, if you want to sell cigarwttes that's a license. In NJ if you want to sell liquor that's a potentially perilous legal matter. A liquor license here can be 250k......if its food, its board of health, if its construction its the building inspector....

3. land use laws/zoning -- hope you don't want a variance that'll be a problem.

4. beyond that of course you have industry specific ones like insurance agent or whatnot......

[patrickt]

He deflected to large multinational companies.
And, he lied. He started his rebuttal on "Obama raised taxes on the top one or two percent". Sen. Sanders is no more honest than any other two-bit communist.

[Bob the Slob]

I could right a disertation on this. Before I sold my business I was obviously in business and one aspect was retail, near a Walmart I might add, and the sign required approval from the town council.

But the list goes on:

1. general compliance with taxes
a. sales tax
b. the businesses taxes
c. payroll taxes

Just making sure the government gets its cut is a part time job.

2. licensing of all varieties. I don't care if its hair dresser or plumber, if you want to sell cigarwttes that's a license. In NJ if you want to sell liquor that's a potentially perilous legal matter. A liquor license here can be 250k......if its food, its board of health, if its construction its the building inspector....

3. land use laws/zoning -- hope you don't want a variance that'll be a problem.

4. beyond that of course you have industry specific ones like insurance agent or whatnot......

So your solution is LESS taxes? Then are they going to be allowed to have their semi-trucks on our roads, eating up the condition of the roads? That doesn't seem fair. If they don't pay taxes, then they have to NOT use our roads.

[Bob the Slob]

And, he lied. He started his rebuttal on "Obama raised taxes on the top one or two percent". Sen. Sanders is no more honest than any other two-bit communist.

Show us where Obama did NOT do that. Show us where Bernie SAID that .

[Chris]

So your solution is LESS taxes? Then are they going to be allowed to have their semi-trucks on our roads, eating up the condition of the roads? That doesn't seem fair. If they don't pay taxes, then they have to NOT use our roads.



Less taxes, only if that implies less government.

[Chris]

Here's a real world example.

Overregulation Kills Beloved Neighborhood Restaurant (https://fee.org/articles/overregulation-kills-beloved-neighborhood-restaurant/)


...In a letter posted to the front doors of the restaurant last week, the owners wrote, “The climate for small businesses like ours in New York have become such that it’s difficult to justify taking risks and running — never mind starting — a legitimate mom-and-pop business.” The letter continued, “The state and municipal governments, with their punishing rules and regulations, seem to believe that we should be their cash machine to pay for all that ails us in society.”

The sentiment reflected in the Wu’s farewell letter sheds light on the great regulatory burden afflicting many small business owners across the country today. In addition to the numerous licenses, permits, and fees required to open a small restaurant like China Fun, government-sponsored healthcare programs and mandatory increases to the minimum wage disproportionately affect these mom and pop establishments.

For small business owners operating within the state of New York, these regulations are only getting worse....

...Albert Wu and other small business owners disagree. “In a one-restaurant operation like ours, you’re spending more time on paperwork than you are trying to run your business.”

In the wake of China Fun’s closure, many disappointed patrons have taken to social media to express their displeasure with the situation. Unfortunately, the Wu’s predicament is not an isolated occurrence and it demonstrates the unintended consequences that overregulation has, and will continue to have, on small business owners.

[Captain Obvious]

Here's a real world example.

Overregulation Kills Beloved Neighborhood Restaurant (https://fee.org/articles/overregulation-kills-beloved-neighborhood-restaurant/)

Healthcare is getting a lot like that also.

A big complaint from providers, and it's a legit complaint. is that they're spending more time on information systems and paper stacks than seeing patients.

[Chris]

Healthcare is getting a lot like that also.

A big complaint from providers, and it's a legit complaint. is that they're spending more time on information systems and paper stacks than seeing patients.


And that harms not just providers but us in premiums.

[Subdermal]

So corporations should just give what they want if they want to? Man's labor is worth nothing?
There is no logical way to conclude that "man's labor is worth nothing". Any person interested in trading money for labor should be allowed to offer what they believe said labor is worth to them.

Any laborer should be free to accept, or move to alternate offers. If the laborer is interested in improving the value of their services, they have the power to do so.

[patrickt]

Show us where Obama did NOT do that. Show us where Bernie SAID that .
I'm sorry you decided to post without watching the video. Since you don't have enough interest to watch the video I'll pass on telling you what Sen. Sanders said in the video. And I realize liberals hate the Constitution and aren't really familiar with it but President Obama couldn't raise taxes. Congress raised taxes on his behalf and their tax increases hit more than the upper 1% or 2%. Sen. Sanders was just repeating leftists talking points that are lies.

[Bob the Slob]

I'm sorry you decided to post without watching the video. Since you don't have enough interest to watch the video I'll pass on telling you what Sen. Sanders said in the video. And I realize liberals hate the Constitution and aren't really familiar with it but President Obama couldn't raise taxes. Congress raised taxes on his behalf and their tax increases hit more than the upper 1% or 2%. Sen. Sanders was just repeating leftists talking points that are lies.


Congress republcians raised the taxes? See, cuz Congressional House members refused to discuss tax increases and Republican senators filibustered everything. CONGRESS raises taxes..and with Obama in office, NOTHING he did was going to fly without Norquist approval.

[Ethereal]

So corporations should just give what they want if they want to? Man's labor is worth nothing?
A man's (or woman's) labor is worth whatever an individual is willing to pay for it.

[Ethereal]

Minimum wage is law, not a regulation.
Just when I think your statements can't get any dumber...

[Ethereal]

the minimum wage law was first passed in 1938

obviously, it's prevented the us economy from growing since its inception

/s
A strong man can walk up a hill with a few stones in his backpack. Doesn't mean the stones aren't slowing him down.

[Bethere]

Just when I think your statements can't get any dumber...

I'll say it again: minimum wage is law, not a regulation.

He said:

Specifically too many regulations. Want a specific one? Minimum wage.

[AeonPax]

`
`
regulations -- n. rules and administrative codes issued by governmental agencies at all levels, municipal, county, state and federal. Although they are not laws, regulations have the force of law, since they are adopted under authority granted by statutes, and often include penalties for violations. (source (http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1771))

Minimum Wage is a Law, not a regulation - (source (https://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm))

[Peter1469]

Regulations are based on statutes. Look up the Administrative State.

[Chris]

I'll say it again: minimum wage is law, not a regulation.

He said:


Distinction where none is merited. But you go ahead and repeat yourself ad nauseum.

[Chris]

`
`
regulations -- n. rules and administrative codes issued by governmental agencies at all levels, municipal, county, state and federal. Although they are not laws, regulations have the force of law, since they are adopted under authority granted by statutes, and often include penalties for violations. (source (http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1771))

Minimum Wage is a Law, not a regulation - (source (https://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm))


law1
[law]
Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
1.
the principles and regulations established in a community by some authority and applicable to its people, whether in the form of legislation or of custom and policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision.

@ dictionary.com



The point of min wage had nothing to do with such fine legalisms.

[AeonPax]

<snip/unsnip>The point of min wage had nothing to do with such fine legalisms.
-
Exactly. Arguing about the semantics is silly, when the legal penalties for breaking either or both, are the same.

[Subdermal]

Minimum Wage is a business regulation that was codified into law. It's both, as many laws are. Those that are both Law and Regulation are a violation of the Constitution, in fact.

It is an overreach of Government authority.

[Bethere]

Distinction where none is merited. But you go ahead and repeat yourself ad nauseum.

There's a huge difference. Laws are passed by both houses and signed by the President.

Regulations take effect when they are published in the federal Register.

A huge difference. Words have meaning.


But hey, carry on. I can't force you to be right.

[Bethere]

-
Exactly. Arguing about the semantics is silly, when the legal penalties for breaking either or both, are the same.

I made no argument. I just pointed out the error, and look at all the insecure defensive activity!