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View Full Version : The Debt And The Trump Agenda



Robo
01-17-2017, 09:33 AM
20 trillion dollars in national debt and President soon to be Trump has set an agenda to cut the corporate tax back to 15-20 %, build a trillion dollar wall on our southern border, cut taxes across the board for all Americans, institute massive infrastructure spending and dedicate another trillion dollars to rebuilding our military.

Does anybody actually believe that any President and Congress can actually do that without bankrupting America?

Does anybody here know why America has 13 nuclear powered aircraft carriers while the rest of the world combined has only two? The Chinese have one and the French have one.

Crepitus
01-17-2017, 09:36 AM
20 trillion dollars in national debt and President soon to be Trump has set an agenda to cut the corporate tax back to 15-20 %, build a trillion dollar wall on our southern border, cut taxes across the board for all Americans, institute massive infrastructure spending and dedicate another trillion dollars to rebuilding our military.

Does anybody actually believe that any President and Congress can actually do that without bankrupting America?

Does anybody here know why America has 13 nuclear powered aircraft carriers while the rest of the world combined has only two? The Chinese have one and the French have one.

Well.....

Ummmmmm......

According to St Ronnie cutting taxes increases revenue doesn't it?

Cigar
01-17-2017, 09:39 AM
I Predict Debts Won't Matter Once Again :laugh:

nathanbforrest45
01-17-2017, 09:48 AM
The United States government should never ever ever eliminate wasteful spending on various government agencies that do little more than further burden the citizens of this country. We can't ever cut out programs that have run their course or agencies that serve no useful purpose or even do like every corporation on the entire planet must do and work off a budget.

No, laws passed and regulations created are to be honored and increased into perpetuity.

Common
01-17-2017, 11:08 AM
20 trillion dollars in national debt and President soon to be Trump has set an agenda to cut the corporate tax back to 15-20 %, build a trillion dollar wall on our southern border, cut taxes across the board for all Americans, institute massive infrastructure spending and dedicate another trillion dollars to rebuilding our military.

Does anybody actually believe that any President and Congress can actually do that without bankrupting America?

Does anybody here know why America has 13 nuclear powered aircraft carriers while the rest of the world combined has only two? The Chinese have one and the French have one.
Did you say thank you to Obama and bush for that debt

birddog
01-17-2017, 11:57 AM
Well.....

Ummmmmm......

According to St Ronnie cutting taxes increases revenue doesn't it?

True. Reagan would have done even better if the dim congress had not lied when they said they would cut spending. I remember.

Ravens Fan
01-17-2017, 11:58 AM
I Predict Debts Won't Matter Once Again :laugh:

To the right? Probably so.

I predict that suddenly, for the first time in 8 years, debt will be very important once again to those on the left.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DGUtley
01-17-2017, 12:30 PM
Debt always matters to me. Always. I am against it. I wrote Bush. I wrote Obama. I will write Trump. PAY-AS-YOU-GO. Otherwise, all we are doing is dumping it on my children's children.

The Xl
01-17-2017, 12:34 PM
Democrats aren't seriously going to pretend to care about the national debt now, right?

Crepitus
01-17-2017, 07:44 PM
True. Reagan would have done even better if the dim congress had not lied when they said they would cut spending. I remember.

Cutting taxes does not generate more revenue.

Peter1469
01-17-2017, 08:44 PM
Cutting taxes does not generate more revenue.

Oh?

Peter1469
01-17-2017, 08:46 PM
Trump is not a conservative. The election had nothing to do with conservative v liberal. Expect the debt to increase. At best deficits will be smaller if Trump gets some economic growth. But he won't be overly concerned over deficits and debt.

Robo
01-18-2017, 03:24 PM
Well.....

Ummmmmm......

According to St Ronnie cutting taxes increases revenue doesn't it?

History shows it does in the longer run. It stimulates economic activities. More money in the hands of businesses and consumers equals more jobs, more purchasing power and all of that equals more tax revenue for the government that eventually cancels out the effects of tax cuts in the longer run.

The problem here is though the tax cuts will eventually pay for themselves, the Trump agenda is sooooo ambitious it's absurd when we consider we're already 20 trillion dollars in debt and running up 500 billion dollar deficits now. The Trump agenda, if implemented, can only explode the debt.

Robo
01-18-2017, 03:30 PM
Did you say thank you to Obama and bush for that debt

It actually got a head start with the Reagan administration and House Speaker Tip O'Neal. Check the history of that dynamic duo, and you'll discover they damned near tripled the national debt.

Peter1469
01-18-2017, 03:32 PM
It actually got a head start with the Reagan administration and House Speaker Tip O'Neal. Check the history of that dynamic duo, and you'll discover they damned near tripled the national debt.


To an amount far lower than an average of Obama's yearly deficits.

Robo
01-18-2017, 03:32 PM
Cutting taxes does not generate more revenue.


I do believe the historical evidence proves you wrong.

Peter1469
01-18-2017, 03:36 PM
I do believe the historical evidence proves you wrong.
see post 11

Robo
01-18-2017, 03:39 PM
To an amount far lower than an average of Obama's yearly deficits.


Taking into consideration the value of the dollar now and then, Obama's doubling of the debt would likely hardly differ from the Reagan O'Neal near tripling of the debt. That calculation would be interesting.

By the way, Congress spends the money, Presidents only promote it and sign the spending legislation. Thus Congress must always have to be an equal consideration with debts and deficits.

Robo
01-18-2017, 04:09 PM
see post 11

The Reagan tax cuts reduced rates for all income classes, even though it was well understood that cutting the lower rates would result in substantial revenue losses. Low tax rates (below 20%) do not cause much of a disincentive for working, saving or investing, and hence there is little supply-side effect. We did argue, however, that reducing the high marginal rates (up to 70% on high-income earners) would cause little, if any, revenue loss, because of the large, positive supply-side effects. Were we right?The official government tax revenue and economic forecast models are still largely Keynesian static models, rather than dynamic…Since most of the Reagan tax cuts applied to lower- and middle-income earners, there was close to a dollar lost in tax revenue for each “dollar” of tax cut for these groups. Still, CBO figures show that total tax revenue only fell from 19.2% of gross domestic product (GDP) in 1982, before most of Reagan’s tax-rate reductions were put in place, to 18.4% of GDP in 1989, the year he left office. This happened because the U.S. economy grew by more than one-third in real terms (34.3%), much faster than the 24.3% rate expected even by economists within the Reagan administration. Thus, by the time President Reagan left office, the economy was generating more tax revenue at a maximum 28% rate than many on the left forecast it to generate at a maximum 70% rate.

The Reagan tax-rate reductions did, in fact, pay for themselves — but it took about seven years.https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/tax-cuts-revenue-what-we-learned-1980s

MisterVeritis
01-18-2017, 04:56 PM
20 trillion dollars in national debt and President soon to be Trump has set an agenda to cut the corporate tax back to 15-20 %, build a trillion dollar wall on our southern border, cut taxes across the board for all Americans, institute massive infrastructure spending and dedicate another trillion dollars to rebuilding our military.
Does anybody actually believe that any President and Congress can actually do that without bankrupting America?
Does anybody here know why America has 13 nuclear powered aircraft carriers while the rest of the world combined has only two? The Chinese have one and the French have one.
A trillion dollar wall? Now that is funny. Ditto the trillion dollars for rebuilding the military.

We are already bankrupt. But don't tell anybody.

Peter1469
01-18-2017, 05:12 PM
Taking into consideration the value of the dollar now and then, Obama's doubling of the debt would likely hardly differ from the Reagan O'Neal near tripling of the debt. That calculation would be interesting.

By the way, Congress spends the money, Presidents only promote it and sign the spending legislation. Thus Congress must always have to be an equal consideration with debts and deficits.

I agree that Congress is part of the problem.

The continued deficits are a large part of the reason the value of the dollar is less than it was in the 80s. Printing money is essentially a partial default since we are paying debt with weaker and weaker currency.

Crepitus
01-18-2017, 08:11 PM
Oh?

More to it than that.

Peter1469
01-18-2017, 09:41 PM
More to it than that.


Bush's tax cuts led to record federal tax receipts.

Bethere
01-18-2017, 09:43 PM
Bush's tax cuts led to record federal tax receipts.

And also $1 trillion annual budget deficits.

Peter1469
01-18-2017, 09:57 PM
And also $1 trillion annual budget deficits.

Too much spending.

Crepitus
01-18-2017, 10:36 PM
Bush's tax cuts led to record federal tax receipts.

Thats extremely debatable. First cut came in 2000, look at your chart. Revenue went down. Second came in 2003, admittedly a much more targeted cut this time, but revenues were already so low that there really wasn't anywhere to go but up. Also that period of time 2000-2007 saw anemic growth in the economy and jobs and the median household income went down. Not exactly good for the economy.

Peter1469
01-18-2017, 11:06 PM
The chart only measures total federal tax receipts.
Thats extremely debatable. First cut came in 2000, look at your chart. Revenue went down. Second came in 2003, admittedly a much more targeted cut this time, but revenues were already so low that there really wasn't anywhere to go but up. Also that period of time 2000-2007 saw anemic growth in the economy and jobs and the median household income went down. Not exactly good for the economy.

Scerab
01-21-2017, 12:04 AM
20 trillion dollars in national debt and President soon to be Trump has set an agenda to cut the corporate tax back to 15-20 %, build a trillion dollar wall on our southern border, cut taxes across the board for all Americans, institute massive infrastructure spending and dedicate another trillion dollars to rebuilding our military.

Does anybody actually believe that any President and Congress can actually do that without bankrupting America?

Does anybody here know why America has 13 nuclear powered aircraft carriers while the rest of the world combined has only two? The Chinese have one and the French have one.


Economists estimate the cost of the wall to be in the range of 6-12 billion.
They also estimate that trumps tax plan alone stands to increase Americas national debt by 5 trillion.
Of course, I predict that president trump will want to play a war, possibly with Iran. Since American presidents love to topple regimens in the Middle East and create more power vacuums for terrorists to flourish.
Such a war will add at least a couple of trillions.
Its not fair to blame Obama for increasing the national debt or at least compare him to the retarded president bush, who increased the debt by going on a haphazard spree of pointless wars.
Obama had to issue a stimulus plan to get America out of the Great Recession, and he had some success. But unfortunately, capitalism will never recover from that plunge and there is more good news...
we are over due for another recession...
People who think that decreasing taxes causes a boost in revenues are delusional. Perhaps they are thinking of what happened during the terrible Reagon area...
the scam of Reagan was to decrease taxes and significantly increase military spending. Terrible Reagan increased the national debt three folds. I Curse Reagan.

Tahuyaman
01-21-2017, 01:08 AM
Cutting taxes does not generate more revenue.


Cutting tax rates creates more economic activity by expanding and enriching the tax base which provides more revenues in to government.

If the corporate rate was reduced to 15% economic growth would increase dramatically . Revenues in to government would skyrocket.

Tahuyaman
01-21-2017, 01:09 AM
Bush's tax cuts led to record federal tax receipts.
The problem is that the Congress always looks at those increasing revenues as a vehicle to increase spending even more.

Tahuyaman
01-21-2017, 01:11 AM
Too much spending.

Liberals believe that more spending leads to lower deficits. Joe Biden even said so.

patrickt
01-21-2017, 07:50 AM
20 trillion dollars in national debt and President soon to be Trump has set an agenda to cut the corporate tax back to 15-20 %, build a trillion dollar wall on our southern border, cut taxes across the board for all Americans, institute massive infrastructure spending and dedicate another trillion dollars to rebuilding our military.

Does anybody actually believe that any President and Congress can actually do that without bankrupting America?

Does anybody here know why America has 13 nuclear powered aircraft carriers while the rest of the world combined has only two? The Chinese have one and the French have one.

Two famous men said, "If you're doing something and it isn't working, do something else." That got us Trump.
Einstein said,
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Albert Einstein
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alberteins133991.html

That behavior brought is Donald Trump, too.

And liberals have brought us an untold number of disasters that never happened.

Peter1469
01-21-2017, 01:43 PM
The stimulus plans hurt us. The created more corporate debt from malinvestment. The structural flaws were ignored for the most part.

If you think the Reagan debt was bad you must be furious with Obama. His debta was more than all presidents combined.


Economists estimate the cost of the wall to be in the range of 6-12 billion.
They also estimate that trumps tax plan alone stands to increase Americas national debt by 5 trillion.
Of course, I predict that president trump will want to play a war, possibly with Iran. Since American presidents love to topple regimens in the Middle East and create more power vacuums for terrorists to flourish.
Such a war will add at least a couple of trillions.
Its not fair to blame Obama for increasing the national debt or at least compare him to the retarded president bush, who increased the debt by going on a haphazard spree of pointless wars.
Obama had to issue a stimulus plan to get America out of the Great Recession, and he had some success. But unfortunately, capitalism will never recover from that plunge and there is more good news...
we are over due for another recession...
People who think that decreasing taxes causes a boost in revenues are delusional. Perhaps they are thinking of what happened during the terrible Reagon area...
the scam of Reagan was to decrease taxes and significantly increase military spending. Terrible Reagan increased the national debt three folds. I Curse Reagan.

Scerab
01-21-2017, 03:39 PM
The stimulus plans hurt us. The created more corporate debt from malinvestment. The structural flaws were ignored for the most part.

If you think the Reagan debt was bad you must be furious with Obama. His debta was more than all presidents combined.

Spoken like a true red...

lets not help out the poor victims of our failed capitalism...
i am not a fan of bailing out the banks. We gave them more money so they loan it back to us with interest. It is the stupidest thing ever. They got bailed out and what did they do?
Did they pay their fair share?
Did they stop their endless greed?
did they care about any one but them selves ?

NO NO NO

The billionaires only care for their self interest...
they went out and bought bigger yachts, better hookers and fancy homes. while the American stooge had to work 3 jobs to be able to live in an RV or mobile home park.

the stimulus plan of FDR is what built America...
obama was not ruthless enough to adopt such policies and impose a max income like FDR did.
It was the only time in American history when income inequality was reduced.
Obama had to spend in order to do some patch up and save the capitalist system we have. Else the billionaires will get rid of him.
The thing I hate most about FDR is that he saved capitalism. If it was not for him America would have been a Socialist country.
And if any ignorant person here does not know the difference between communism, fascism, Marxism and socialism. Then please educate your self before making a fool out of your self.

To me the fact that a man like sanders was able to make it all the way to one of the top candidates for president is a miracle. We are on the verge of revolution. 8 people have more wealth then the bottom 3.5 billion.

Yes... lets vote to cute taxes on the rich. They really care about us...

why do reds oppose the ACA? Because it imposed a tax on the rich...
the reds are the party of the employer and they don't like taxes.

You think trumps tax plans will help you save money? Not if your middle class...
he might decrease what you owe but he will also decrease what you can deduct.
The American stooge is being raped bare and he/she/it does not even know it...

Peter1469
01-21-2017, 07:59 PM
red?

Spoken like a true red...

lets not help out the poor victims of our failed capitalism...
i am not a fan of bailing out the banks. We gave them more money so they loan it back to us with interest. It is the stupidest thing ever. They got bailed out and what did they do?
Did they pay their fair share?
Did they stop their endless greed?
did they care about any one but them selves ?

NO NO NO

The billionaires only care for their self interest...
they went out and bought bigger yachts, better hookers and fancy homes. while the American stooge had to work 3 jobs to be able to live in an RV or mobile home park.

the stimulus plan of FDR is what built America...
obama was not ruthless enough to adopt such policies and impose a max income like FDR did.
It was the only time in American history when income inequality was reduced.
Obama had to spend in order to do some patch up and save the capitalist system we have. Else the billionaires will get rid of him.
The thing I hate most about FDR is that he saved capitalism. If it was not for him America would have been a Socialist country.
And if any ignorant person here does not know the difference between communism, fascism, Marxism and socialism. Then please educate your self before making a fool out of your self.

To me the fact that a man like sanders was able to make it all the way to one of the top candidates for president is a miracle. We are on the verge of revolution. 8 people have more wealth then the bottom 3.5 billion.

Yes... lets vote to cute taxes on the rich. They really care about us...

why do reds oppose the ACA? Because it imposed a tax on the rich...
the reds are the party of the employer and they don't like taxes.

You think trumps tax plans will help you save money? Not if your middle class...
he might decrease what you owe but he will also decrease what you can deduct.
The American stooge is being raped bare and he/she/it does not even know it...

Tahuyaman
01-25-2017, 11:15 PM
20 trillion dollars in national debt and President soon to be Trump has set an agenda to cut the corporate tax back to 15-20 %, build a trillion dollar wall on our southern border, cut taxes across the board for all Americans, institute massive infrastructure spending and dedicate another trillion dollars to rebuilding our military.

Does anybody actually believe that any President and Congress can actually do that without bankrupting America?

Does anybody here know why America has 13 nuclear powered aircraft carriers while the rest of the world combined has only two? The Chinese have one and the French have one.


We pissed away nearly a trillion dollars away in 2009 on an infrastructure building /restoration plan which never happened. Guess what? It's not going to happen this time either. Pissing away another trillion is not the answer. Trumps plan is just to take money from one sector of the economy, then use that to prop up another sector of the economy. It's a shell game.

we are drowning in debt. Piling up more is not the answer.

donttread
01-26-2017, 07:14 AM
20 trillion dollars in national debt and President soon to be Trump has set an agenda to cut the corporate tax back to 15-20 %, build a trillion dollar wall on our southern border, cut taxes across the board for all Americans, institute massive infrastructure spending and dedicate another trillion dollars to rebuilding our military.

Does anybody actually believe that any President and Congress can actually do that without bankrupting America?

Does anybody here know why America has 13 nuclear powered aircraft carriers while the rest of the world combined has only two? The Chinese have one and the French have one.

Spending and debt is what the Donkephant does best. Sixteen years or more since the feds balanced a budget. Try that in your business or family and see what happens. As for corporate taxes , as I have said many times, they are merely mental masturbation paid by the customer 100% of the time. A comsumption tax would be better for many reasons.

NapRover
01-26-2017, 07:31 AM
Spoken like a true red...

lets not help out the poor victims of our failed capitalism...
i am not a fan of bailing out the banks. We gave them more money so they loan it back to us with interest. It is the stupidest thing ever. They got bailed out and what did they do?
Did they pay their fair share?
Did they stop their endless greed?
did they care about any one but them selves ?

NO NO NO

The billionaires only care for their self interest...
they went out and bought bigger yachts, better hookers and fancy homes. while the American stooge had to work 3 jobs to be able to live in an RV or mobile home park.

the stimulus plan of FDR is what built America...
obama was not ruthless enough to adopt such policies and impose a max income like FDR did.
It was the only time in American history when income inequality was reduced.
Obama had to spend in order to do some patch up and save the capitalist system we have. Else the billionaires will get rid of him.
The thing I hate most about FDR is that he saved capitalism. If it was not for him America would have been a Socialist country.
And if any ignorant person here does not know the difference between communism, fascism, Marxism and socialism. Then please educate your self before making a fool out of your self.

To me the fact that a man like sanders was able to make it all the way to one of the top candidates for president is a miracle. We are on the verge of revolution. 8 people have more wealth then the bottom 3.5 billion.

Yes... lets vote to cute taxes on the rich. They really care about us...

why do reds oppose the ACA? Because it imposed a tax on the rich...
the reds are the party of the employer and they don't like taxes.

You think trumps tax plans will help you save money? Not if your middle class...
he might decrease what you owe but he will also decrease what you can deduct.
The American stooge is being raped bare and he/she/it does not even know it...
You don't want to work. I do. So there's going to be a vast income inequality between us. It's not society's problem. Not government's problem. The only ones who have a problem with it are people like you. It's a fake problem.