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MMC
01-23-2017, 09:13 AM
Looks like Trump will keep another Promise. Israel papers and news is reporting on this after Trump talked to Netanyahu yesterday. Another blow to BO peep dealings with Israel and Palestine. Trump sure is showing up BO peep with the promises.





President Trump is expected to announce the move of the U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem on Monday. Israeli news outlets first began reporting the rumors after Trump participated in a phone conference on Sunday with Israeli Prime Minister, but the White House confirmed they were in the "first steps" of relocating the embassy.


Kay Burley
✔ @KayBurley UPDATE: White House confirms it is in discussions to move the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.....snip~

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2017/01/22/report-trump-to-announce-move-of-israel-embassy-to-jersualem-n2275252

Cigar
01-23-2017, 09:15 AM
Good, let the Wars continue ... :laugh:

MMC
01-23-2017, 09:25 AM
Yes good......another Promise Kept. Tell BO peep to take notes and remember that. :grin:

ripmeister
01-23-2017, 10:24 AM
I'll be curious to see how this move engenders The Donalds son-in-laws ability to broker a peace deal between the Israelis and the Palestinians as Trump said he would do.

MMC
01-23-2017, 10:26 AM
Hamas has come out saying if we move the Embassy they will counter with all means. Plus Jordan says if Trump does it.....it will be crossing a red line.


First Hamas......best wake up to the fact that go after our Embassy we will go after them droning their ass out of existence.

Now Jordan should know better than drawing a BO peep red line in the sand.

ripmeister
01-23-2017, 10:31 AM
For those of you who support this move what does it really achieve in terms of ME stability and American interests? To me it just seems incendiary and a flipping of the bird to the Palestinians. What does it really achieve in terms of something positive in terms of the ME dynamic?

MMC
01-23-2017, 10:37 AM
For those of you who support this move what does it really achieve in terms of ME stability and American interests? To me it just seems incendiary and a flipping of the bird to the Palestinians. What does it really achieve in terms of something positive in terms of the ME dynamic?
Well, it might influence Israel to not build anymore settlements. Do you think that would be beneficial to negotiations between the Palestinians and Israel?

Who cares what Hamas thinks.....their nothing more than some Terrorists.

Subdermal
01-23-2017, 10:39 AM
Good, let the Wars continue ... :laugh:
What war was going to cease, that this move totally changes again?

Subdermal
01-23-2017, 10:40 AM
For those of you who support this move what does it really achieve in terms of ME stability and American interests? To me it just seems incendiary and a flipping of the bird to the Palestinians. What does it really achieve in terms of something positive in terms of the ME dynamic?

I think it does the same thing to Palestine that a house known to have armed owners does to criminals.

ripmeister
01-23-2017, 10:50 AM
Well, it might influence Israel to not build anymore settlements. Do you think that would be beneficial to negotiations between the Palestinians and Israel?

Who cares what Hamas thinks.....their nothing more than some Terrorists.

Hows that? What would this have to do with whether Israel continues to build settlements in controversial areas?

ripmeister
01-23-2017, 10:51 AM
I think it does the same thing to Palestine that a house known to have armed owners does to criminals.
Not sure what you mean. You think this will increase Israels security?

Private Pickle
01-23-2017, 11:31 AM
Not sure what you mean. You think this will increase Israels security?

It's a clear move that we will continue to support Israel as a sovereign nation.

Subdermal
01-23-2017, 12:02 PM
Not sure what you mean. You think this will increase Israels security?
It will increase Palestine's fear of reprisal for their violent actions - which is exactly the impression we need to convey.

MMC
01-23-2017, 12:43 PM
If the US embassy is in Jerusalem. Then the Israelis are less apt tp build in the West Bank. Knowing our people are Right there. Knowing they got the support with their Capitol.

Green Arrow
01-23-2017, 01:09 PM
If the US embassy is in Jerusalem. Then the Israelis are less apt tp build in the West Bank. Knowing our people are Right there. Knowing they got the support with their Capitol.

Actually, it's the opposite. Trump being in office and moving the embassy to Jerusalem only emboldens the Israeli government.

Green Arrow
01-23-2017, 01:10 PM
Trump's ignorance is once again on full display. He has no idea what he's doing.

MMC
01-23-2017, 01:57 PM
Actually, it's the opposite. Trump being in office and moving the embassy to Jerusalem only emboldens the Israeli government.

Not necessarily and as you know, it wouldn't be set in stone. That it would embolden the Israelis. Not if working with Trump on a deal. Which also as you know, you could not say for certain.

Subdermal
01-23-2017, 02:56 PM
Actually, it's the opposite. Trump being in office and moving the embassy to Jerusalem only emboldens the Israeli government.
I would have expected that Obama consistently thumbing Netanyahu in the nose - as well as overtly attempting to subvert his reelection (failing) - would have been what 'emboldens' Israel.

Nothing changes what Israel does. Israel does what it believes is in its best interest. We can either assist in that (which Trump will, and has already begun to do), or obstruct (which Obama has done for 8 years).

This is nothing but a good thing, and my hope is peace will be once again won as it has historically always been won: through strength.

ripmeister
01-23-2017, 02:57 PM
It's a clear move that we will continue to support Israel as a sovereign nation.
I think its pretty clear regardless of where the embassy is located that we will do that. This response is a canard.

Common Sense
01-23-2017, 02:57 PM
Sounds like a pretty expensive symbolic move to piss off the Palestinians.

It's weird that conservatives would support spending all that taxpayer money....

ripmeister
01-23-2017, 02:58 PM
It will increase Palestine's fear of reprisal for their violent actions - which is exactly the impression we need to convey.
How does it do that? How does the location of the embassy do that exactly?

Common Sense
01-23-2017, 02:58 PM
If the US embassy is in Jerusalem. Then the Israelis are less apt tp build in the West Bank. Knowing our people are Right there. Knowing they got the support with their Capitol.
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Private Pickle
01-23-2017, 03:22 PM
I think its pretty clear regardless of where the embassy is located that we will do that. This response is a canard.

Not to the Palestinians...which is why it is a powerful statement...

MMC
01-23-2017, 03:54 PM
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Maybe not to you illiberals.....but then illiberals are mentally challenged.

MMC
01-23-2017, 04:09 PM
Not to the Palestinians...which is why it is a powerful statement...

They should have read their own Rag, the NY Times and what they had to say.


Moving the embassy has been promised before by winning presidential candidates, but abandoned once they entered office and came to understand its complexity and the extreme reactions it would provoke. It looks as though the Trump White House could be different. Mr. Trump’s pick as ambassador (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/15/us/politics/donald-trump-david-friedman-israel-ambassador.html) to Israel, David M. Friedman, has said that he looks forward to officially recognizing Jerusalem as “Israel’s eternal capital.”


It might seem that these two desires — to cut the “ultimate deal” and to move the embassy — contradict each other. Indeed, recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital could be disastrous. But it doesn’t have to be. In fact, Mr. Trump could both fulfill his pledge and move the Israeli-Palestinian peace process forward if he plays his cards right.
Continue reading the main story (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/opinion/the-jerusalem-first-option.html?_r=0#story-continues-1)



Continue reading the main story (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/opinion/the-jerusalem-first-option.html?_r=0#story-continues-2)


In previous peace talks, negotiations over the status of Jerusalem have been left for last, when progress on the other, less contentious issues might have made each side more amenable to accepting the legitimacy of the other side’s aspirations in the holy city. The new president, who seems attracted to disruption, can break this rule, using the embassy move to jump-start the moribund peace negotiations and deal with the thorniest issue first.

Despite these zero-sum assertions, a rational compromise isn’t difficult to envision.

The undivided city could become the shared capital of the two states with Jewish suburbs under Israeli sovereignty and Arab suburbs under Palestinian sovereignty, an idea advanced both by President Bill Clinton in his last days in office and by Secretary of State John Kerry in his speech last week (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/28/us/politics/john-kerry-israel-palestine-peace.html) outlining his principles for a peace settlement. The area bounded by the walls of the Old City, meanwhile, could be administered by a special regime that maintained the religious status quo and ensured that the three religious authorities continued to administer their respective holy sites, an idea supported by President George W. Bush during negotiations between Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel and the president of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas.

He could begin by announcing, as promised, that he had decided to begin the process of moving the embassy to western Jerusalem. But he would need to make a parallel announcement that he would establish an embassy to the state of Palestine in East Jerusalem when a final status agreement is reached.

If the two sides failed to reach agreement, the United States, Egypt and Jordan could resort to a United Nations Security Council resolution, not to condemn any party, but rather to set out the parameters of a rational solution on Jerusalem: Israel would be asked to accept a Palestinian capital in the Arab parts of East Jerusalem, and in return, the Palestinians, and all other members of the international community, would be asked to recognize Israel’s capital in all of Jewish Jerusalem. The resolution would also need to call for a special regime to be established in the Old City to protect the status quo for the religious sites.


Mr. Trump should either defer the decision for now, or combine it with a carefully planned diplomatic initiative to resolve Jerusalem first......snip~

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/opinion/the-jerusalem-first-option.html?_r=0



Do you think the illiberals can even understand what the Vice President executive of Brookings is saying? Despite him being an Ambassador for Clinton and BO peeps Special Envoy?

MMC
01-23-2017, 04:19 PM
It will increase Palestine's fear of reprisal for their violent actions - which is exactly the impression we need to convey.

You have to understand the illiberals don't know much about the process and only look to stick up for Hamas and the Palestinians, and of course to be against anything the Right supports.

Moreso looking to be against what those on the Right support and it allows them to stick up and support terrorists.

Cigar
01-23-2017, 04:21 PM
I personally couldn't give a flying f'ck where that embassy sits, as long as it's over there some place. :laugh:

Private Pickle
01-23-2017, 04:34 PM
I personally couldn't give a flying f'ck where that embassy sits, as long as it's over there some place. :laugh:

We know.

MMC
01-23-2017, 04:39 PM
I personally couldn't give a flying f'ck where that embassy sits, as long as it's over there some place. :laugh:

No need to explain why or the reason you don't understand the issue. It takes more than rubbing 2 sticks together for a thought. Just sayin.

Green Arrow
01-23-2017, 05:37 PM
Not necessarily and as you know, it wouldn't be set in stone. That it would embolden the Israelis. Not if working with Trump on a deal. Which also as you know, you could not say for certain.

I could say for certain because Trump has said he supports Israeli settlements.

Green Arrow
01-23-2017, 05:39 PM
I would have expected that Obama consistently thumbing Netanyahu in the nose - as well as overtly attempting to subvert his reelection (failing) - would have been what 'emboldens' Israel.

Nothing changes what Israel does. Israel does what it believes is in its best interest. We can either assist in that (which Trump will, and has already begun to do), or obstruct (which Obama has done for 8 years).

This is nothing but a good thing, and my hope is peace will be once again won as it has historically always been won: through strength.

We have zero obligation to help support some other nation's best interests unless their best interests are in our best interest.

MMC
01-23-2017, 05:46 PM
I could say for certain because Trump has said he supports Israeli settlements.

Read post 25....seems your certainty just don't fit in with reality.

del
01-23-2017, 05:48 PM
Read post 25....seems your certainty just don't fit in with reality.

opinions aren't facts

not even alternative facts

MMC
01-23-2017, 05:55 PM
opinions aren't facts

not even alternative facts

Seems Clintons ambassador, who was BO peeps Special Envoy disagrees with those two sticks you rubbed together.


Hence that part about a rational compromise being envisioned. Something you illiberals are incapable of.

del
01-23-2017, 05:56 PM
Seems Clintons ambassador, who was BO peeps Special Envoy disagrees your those two sticks you rubbed together.

http://www.strokeassociation.org/STROKEORG/WarningSigns/Stroke-Warning-Signs-and-Symptoms_UCM_308528_SubHomePage.jsp

MMC
01-23-2017, 06:00 PM
http://www.strokeassociation.org/STROKEORG/WarningSigns/Stroke-Warning-Signs-and-Symptoms_UCM_308528_SubHomePage.jsp

Truly I don't need to know about any medical problems you have. Try someone that cares about your kind.

Common Sense
01-23-2017, 06:13 PM
There are several negatives to a move.

For one, cost. Moving from a fully functional embassy with 800 staff is costly and only serves a symbolic purpose...but at what actual cost?

Second, space is at a premium in Jerusalem. How will they find the actual space? Not to mention the rules and regulations regarding building there. It's an historically sensitive area.

Lastly, there is a truce and a delicate peace right now. Moving will certainly help end that. Why be provocative?

valley ranch
01-23-2017, 06:25 PM
My guess symbolism is everything. The President has, it seems, decided to move it.

del
01-23-2017, 06:27 PM
There are several negatives to a move.

For one, cost. Moving from a fully functional embassy with 800 staff is costly and only serves a symbolic purpose...but at what actual cost?

Second, space is at a premium in Jerusalem. How will they find the actual space? Not to mention the rules and regulations regarding building there. It's an historically sensitive area.

Lastly, there is a truce and a delicate peace right now. Moving will certainly help end that. Why be provocative?


it probably won't cost more than a billion to build, and people will be lining up to get posted there.

Common Sense
01-23-2017, 06:31 PM
it probably won't cost more than a billion to build, and people will be lining up to get posted there.

A billion to build in probably 8-12 years.

Green Arrow
01-23-2017, 09:53 PM
Read post 25....seems your certainty just don't fit in with reality.

My post is reality. Yours is speculation.

Green Arrow
01-23-2017, 09:54 PM
Seems Clintons ambassador, who was BO peeps Special Envoy disagrees with those two sticks you rubbed together.


Hence that part about a rational compromise being envisioned. Something you illiberals are incapable of.

Clinton's ambassador and Obama's special envoy is wrong.

Subdermal
01-23-2017, 09:56 PM
We have zero obligation to help support some other nation's best interests unless their best interests are in our best interest.
Exactly.

Green Arrow
01-23-2017, 09:57 PM
Exactly.
You agree, yet the comment of yours I responded goes against that.

Subdermal
01-23-2017, 10:06 PM
You agree, yet the comment of yours I responded goes against that.

Nope. I see vital interest where you do not.

Green Arrow
01-23-2017, 10:16 PM
Nope. I see vital interest where you do not.

I wouldn't go that far. I see potential interest, but only if we keep the Israeli government on a very short leash.

Crepitus
01-23-2017, 10:43 PM
For those of you who support this move what does it really achieve in terms of ME stability and American interests? To me it just seems incendiary and a flipping of the bird to the Palestinians. What does it really achieve in terms of something positive in terms of the ME dynamic?

Nothing. This is just grand standing.

Crepitus
01-23-2017, 10:44 PM
Well, it might influence Israel to not build anymore settlements. Do you think that would be beneficial to negotiations between the Palestinians and Israel?

Who cares what Hamas thinks.....their nothing more than some Terrorists.

Why would you think that? I would think it would encourage the Israelisame to keep with their current program.

Crepitus
01-23-2017, 10:47 PM
Sounds like a pretty expensive symbolic move to piss off the Palestinians.

It's weird that conservatives would support spending all that taxpayer money....

Not really. Conservatives love a good sabre rattling.

Tahuyaman
01-24-2017, 01:48 AM
Good, let the Wars continue ... :laugh:


So being allies with Israel will promote war? Hmm.

Tahuyaman
01-24-2017, 01:51 AM
Some people have this knee-jerk reaction to be anti Israel. I know why. I just wish they would admit why, but they just don't have personal courage to do so.

MMC
01-24-2017, 07:55 AM
My post is reality. Yours is speculation.

Your post is nothing more than speculation. Trump says the Israeli and Palestinian issue is the deal of all time. One he would like to cement and be successful with it. Oh and he didn't say he was for the Israelis building settlements in Palestinian land.

MMC
01-24-2017, 08:00 AM
Clinton's ambassador and Obama's special envoy is wrong.

No they aren't wrong with the premise of working out the thorniest part of the deal first. Nor are they wrong saying Trump should also acknowledge the Palestinians with an Embassy on their Land.

So it would be that you are wrong and don't know what you are talking about. Which really isn't all that surprising.

MMC
01-24-2017, 08:07 AM
I wouldn't go that far. I see potential interest, but only if we keep the Israeli government on a very short leash.

Keeping Israel on a short leash, huh? Yet no leash for Hamas. Looks like you set yourself out with what you support. To bad most other experts on the policy already know the interests. Let us know when you learn what the US interest is.

MMC
01-24-2017, 08:13 AM
Some people have this knee-jerk reaction to be anti Israel. I know why. I just wish they would admit why, but they just don't have personal courage to do so.

Well with comments like Israel needs to be on a short leash.....you can see there was never any objectivity on the issue. The Bias must come in early for the leftness. After they get the Leftwing Propaganda from those that they follow.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 09:18 AM
Your post is nothing more than speculation. Trump says the Israeli and Palestinian issue is the deal of all time. One he would like to cement and be successful with it. Oh and he didn't say he was for the Israelis building settlements in Palestinian land.

Wrong. Trump endorses Jewish settlememt expansion in West Bank (http://m.jpost.com/US-Elections/Trump-endorses-Jewish-settlement-expansion-in-West-Bank-453016)

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 09:20 AM
No they aren't wrong with the premise of working out the thorniest part of the deal first. Nor are they wrong saying Trump should also acknowledge the Palestinians with an Embassy on their Land.

So it would be that you are wrong and don't know what you are talking about. Which really isn't all that surprising.
You've already been demonstrably wrong. Have the class to admit it. I've yet to say something incorrect on this issue.

Cigar
01-24-2017, 09:25 AM
No need to explain why or the reason you don't understand the issue. It takes more than rubbing 2 sticks together for a thought. Just sayin.

I never feel I need to explain anything to anyone ... because it's like that now. :wink:

MMC
01-24-2017, 09:53 AM
I never feel I need to explain anything to anyone ... because it's like that now. :wink:

So its nothing new and just not now. Just as you not knowing anything about the issue. :laugh:

MMC
01-24-2017, 09:54 AM
Wrong. Trump endorses Jewish settlememt expansion in West Bank (http://m.jpost.com/US-Elections/Trump-endorses-Jewish-settlement-expansion-in-West-Bank-453016)
Where is Jerasulem again?

Cigar
01-24-2017, 09:54 AM
So its nothing new and just not now. Just as you not knowing anything about the issue. :laugh:

I don't give a F'ck therefore there's not need for me to ... :laugh:

MMC
01-24-2017, 09:58 AM
You've already been demonstrably wrong. Have the class to admit it. I've yet to say something incorrect on this issue.
Try again, and go read some more books. This time try some without your Leftwing propaganda.

MMC
01-24-2017, 09:59 AM
I don't give a F'ck therefore there's not need for me to ... :laugh:
So do yourself a favor and don't try and talk about what you don't know. You will only validate that you don't know shit.:laugh:

Private Pickle
01-24-2017, 10:35 AM
We have zero obligation to help support some other nation's best interests unless their best interests are in our best interest.
It is.

MMC
01-24-2017, 11:46 AM
It is.

Yes it is.....and its amazing how he thinks that the Israelis need to stop building on what land is theirs. But that Israel needs to be kept on short leash.

Not those running around and calling for the destruction of Israel and supporting the killing of Jews.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 12:14 PM
Where is Jerasulem again?

It's spelled "Jerusalem." You were wrong.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 12:16 PM
Try again, and go read some more books. This time try some without your Leftwing propaganda.

I've researched plenty on this issue from a variety of sources, across the spectrum. You couldn't say anything on the topic without someone else holding your hand.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 12:17 PM
Yes it is.....and its amazing how he thinks that the Israelis need to stop building on what land is theirs. But that Israel needs to be kept on short leash.

Not those running around and calling for the destruction of Israel and supporting the killing of Jews.

The West Bank is not Israeli land.

MMC
01-24-2017, 12:21 PM
I've researched plenty on this issue from a variety of sources, across the spectrum. You couldn't say anything on the topic without someone else holding your hand.

You have researched it, huh. When can you start showing something other than that 20 years lacking in age and experience and with your self professed intelligence.

Try not parsing statements to begin with and you might actually be able to discuss the issue.

Oh and you couldn't even compete with me.....on your best day. So save the BS for those illiberals you stick up for.

MMC
01-24-2017, 12:23 PM
It's spelled "Jerusalem." You were wrong.
Typical leftist now complaining about spelling. When you need to find some other excuse for what you lack on the issue. You lose!

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 12:24 PM
You have researched it,huh. When can you start showing something other than that 20 years lacking in age and experience and with your self professed intelligence.

Try not parsing statements to begin with and you might actually be able to discuss the issue.

Oh and you couldn't even compete with me.....on your best day. So save the BS for those illiberals you stick up for.

Please. The only time you are halfway coherent is when you let someone else's articles do the talking for you. No competition is necessary, I'd win by default.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 12:25 PM
Typical leftist now complaining about spelling. When you need to find some other excuse for what you lack on the issue. You lose!

You claimed Trump never supported Israeli settlements. I showed you were wrong. I'm not the one struggling here.

MMC
01-24-2017, 12:29 PM
Please. The only time you are halfway coherent is when you let someone else's articles do the talking for you. No competition is necessary, I'd win by default.
Save it.....as if you have any trouble with those English words and their definitions. Then that's on you and what you lack with your simplicity. As I didn't change the definitions.

So did you still want go with the excuse about what causes you, your cornfuzzlement.

MMC
01-24-2017, 12:31 PM
You claimed Trump never supported Israeli settlements. I showed you were wrong. I'm not the one struggling here.


Yet you couldn't figure out that he meant on what is Israeli land. So you tried to go with a general statement thinking you had something. Other than a misnomer.

MisterVeritis
01-24-2017, 12:35 PM
The West Bank is not Israeli land.
In you opinion, to whom does it belong? And why?

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 12:45 PM
Where is Jerasulem again?
Your initial quote..."Oh and he didn't say he was for the Israelis building settlements in Palestinian land."

Green Arrows link disproves your contention.


Your response is "Where is Jerusalem again? Where Jerusalem is has nothing to do with it. You were wrong. Even your attempt at deflection is pretty weak. You are not an honest debater. Its ok that you were wrong though. We all make mistakes.

MMC
01-24-2017, 12:46 PM
In you opinion, to whom does it belong? And why?

Yet that's where Jerusalem is. Do you think he noticed that on one of those maps he says he researched?

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 12:49 PM
Yet you couldn't figure out that he meant on what is Israeli land. So you tried to go with a general statement thinking you had something. Other than a misnomer.

Wow, another word salad? You were wrong. Its ok though.

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 12:49 PM
In you opinion, to whom does it belong? And why?
Our opinion is irrelevant. Whats relevant is the UN agreements on the matter.

MMC
01-24-2017, 12:50 PM
Your initial quote..."Oh and he didn't say he was for the Israelis building settlements in Palestinian land."

Green Arrows link disproves your contention.


Your response is "Where is Jerusalem again? Where Jerusalem is has nothing to do with it. You were wrong. Even your attempt at deflection is pretty weak. You are not an honest debater. Its ok that you were wrong though. We all make mistakes.

Jerusalem is in the West Bank. It was simple answer and enough to show why the Israelis have the Right to build settlements on their land.

Let me know when you can figure that out. Oh and save that BS about being an honest debater as when you assume. You step out of being honest. Just like you did here.


Did you still want to assume some more?

Cigar
01-24-2017, 12:51 PM
I think Don Cheeto should go for the Building Ribbon-Cutting Ceremony and Dedication :grin:

MisterVeritis
01-24-2017, 12:51 PM
Our opinion is irrelevant. Whats relevant is the UN agreements on the matter.
No. The UN is not relevant. Who owns the land? Israel. Why do they own the land?

MMC
01-24-2017, 12:52 PM
Wow, another word salad? You were wrong. Its ok though.

Let me know when you figure out where Jerusalem is.....did you need a map to help filter it thru?

Looks like it was a Caesar Salad without your breadcrumbs.

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 12:53 PM
Jerusalem is in the West Bank. It was simple answer and enough to show why the Israelis have the Right to build settlements on their land.

Let me know when you can figure that out. Oh and save that BS about being an honest debater as when you assume. You step out of being honest. Just like you did here.


Did you still want to assume some more?

This wasn't about them having the right to build it was about your contention that Trump didn't support it. Green Arrow proved you wrong. Quit changing the subject. It makes you appear to be a dishonest debater. You were wrong. Its ok though, we're all occasionally wrong about something.

MMC
01-24-2017, 12:58 PM
This wasn't about them having the right to build it was about your contention that Trump didn't support it. Green Arrow proved you wrong. Quit changing the subject. It makes you appear to be a dishonest debater. You were wrong. Its ok though, we're all occasionally wrong about something.

Again, Trump Supports the Israelis building settlements on THEIR LAND. Not Palestinian land. So it is a misnomer that Trump says its okay for the Israelis to build on Palestinian Land.

Have you figured out where Jerusalem is yet? Has that filtered down with the corn?

AZ Jim
01-24-2017, 12:59 PM
Trump due to his supreme ignorance has taken a delicate situation and thrown gasoline on a raging fire!! Ignorant, clumsy, and stupid!! He' not my President. He is a sick fraud!

MMC
01-24-2017, 01:01 PM
Trump due to his supreme ignorance has taken a delicate situation and thrown gasoline on a raging fire!! Ignorant, clumsy, and stupid!! He' not my President. He is a sick fraud!

Try reading what BO peeps Special Envoy and former Clinton Ambassador said. It was in the NY Times rag posted up in the thread. Just an FYI, so you don't make yourself look like you don't know what you are talking about.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 01:04 PM
Yet you couldn't figure out that he meant on what is Israeli land. So you tried to go with a general statement thinking you had something. Other than a misnomer.

Incorrect. He was referring to the West Bank. That's Palestinian land. I'll give you time to Google it.

Cigar
01-24-2017, 01:06 PM
President Obama can't here you ... or care, he's busy playing Golf ...

BTW; thanks for paying for the Tee-Time ... Enjoy the sweet smell for Oil :laugh:

MMC
01-24-2017, 01:07 PM
No. The UN is not relevant. Who owns the land? Israel. Why do they own the land?

Remember the leftness likes to take things out of context and run with it. Then deflect to their statement that was out of context.

MMC
01-24-2017, 01:08 PM
Incorrect. He was referring to the West Bank. That's Palestinian land. I'll give you time to Google it.

Jerusalem is in the West Bank.....did you need a map for the filtering.

Btw, do you even read what has been posted and stated. If so you wouldn't still be trying to play off what Trump Said.

MMC
01-24-2017, 01:15 PM
https://desertpeace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/separation_barrier_israel_west_bank.gif

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 01:18 PM
Again, Trump Supports the Israelis building settlements on THEIR LAND. Not Palestinian land. So it is a misnomer that Trump says its okay for the Israelis to build on Palestinian Land.

Have you figured out where Jerusalem is yet? Has that filtered down with the corn?

Keep twisting and turning boss, that's what dishonest debaters do. Twists and turns followed with personal missives.

The West Bank and East Jerusalem are considered "occupied" territories that were captured in the 67 war. The international community considers the settlements to be illegal under international law. The ironic part is these territories are governed by the Palestinian Authority and according to Israeli policy a part of the two state solution. Yet Israel keeps incrementally taking additional land for its settlements. One can argue as Veritis seems to want to do about "who owns the land" but in terms of the international community and international courts of law the Israelis are the occupiers on occupied land and have no business building there.


That's all beside the point though in terms of my earlier post in this thread. You claimed Trump didn't take a position on this and Green Arrow proved you wrong. Man up and admit it instead of keeping up with the twisteroo. You would probably gain a lot of respect were you to do so and its really ok to be wrong on occasion.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 01:19 PM
Jerusalem is in the West Bank.....did you need a map for the filtering.

Btw, do you even read what has been posted and stated. If so you wouldn't still be trying to play off what Trump Said.

Jerusalem is also split between Israel and Palestine and their control does not extend into the West Bank.

Back to Google for your reply.

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 01:23 PM
Jerusalem is in the West Bank.....did you need a map for the filtering.

Btw, do you even read what has been posted and stated. If so you wouldn't still be trying to play off what Trump Said.

My response was to this...."Oh and he didn't say he was for the Israelis building settlements in Palestinian land." Your words, not mine, and wrong. Keep spinning, duckin and divin though. :rollseyes:

Ethereal
01-24-2017, 01:23 PM
Completely needless provocation that will accomplish nothing.

Private Pickle
01-24-2017, 01:26 PM
Completely needless provocation that will accomplish nothing.
It's only a provocation if you don't recognize Israel as a sovereign nation...

MMC
01-24-2017, 01:31 PM
My response was to this...."Oh and he didn't say he was for the Israelis building settlements in Palestinian land." Your words, not mine, and wrong. Keep spinning, duckin and divin though. :rollseyes:
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/Portals/0/news/131219_westbank.jpg


The map shows the reality for what it is. Trump has said the Israelis have the Right to build on their land.

Just as it is for any other Nation.

Ethereal
01-24-2017, 01:32 PM
Some Americans are more loyal to Israel than their own country. They are willing to jeopardize America's interests and standing in the world in order to promote Israel's regional agenda. Not only that, they are willing to steal billions of dollars from American taxpayers and send it to Israel. They claim all this is done in solidarity with an ally. But what about our other allies like Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Australia, Japan, etc. who are all opposed to Israel's expansionism and settlements? I guess our alliance to Israel is more important than all those alliances combined?

Ethereal
01-24-2017, 01:35 PM
It's only a provocation if you don't recognize Israel as a sovereign nation...
Jerusalem is divided. It's been a contentious areas for millennia. Trump wants to stick America's collective nose into that ancient quagmire in order to promote Israel's interests. He does this with no clear reasoning or strategy. It's merely a big kiss to Israel that will only inflame tensions in an already unstable region. It will cause further hatred and resentment towards America in the Muslim world and it will isolate us from other allies who are against Israel's expansionism and settlement activity. And for what? Is there something wrong with our current embassy? Will moving our embassy to Jerusalem make it easier for American diplomats to do their job? Of course not. It's a needless provocation that does not put America first like Trump claimed he would do. Instead, it puts Israel first, which is what some Americans seem to want.

Ethereal
01-24-2017, 01:40 PM
How does this put America first? What tangible benefits will America derive from this move? How much taxpayer money will it cost to relocate our embassy? What is wrong with the US embassy's current location? What effect will this have on other, more important alliances? How will this effect America's standing and reputation in the Muslim world?

These are questions that will not get good answers because there are none. The ONLY reason for this is to kiss Israel's butt. And for some reason, there are many Americans who think Israel deserves to have its butt kissed by America regardless of the consequences.

Private Pickle
01-24-2017, 01:43 PM
Jerusalem is divided. It's been a contentious areas for millennia. Trump wants to stick America's collective nose into that ancient quagmire in order to promote Israel's interests. He does this with no clear reasoning or strategy. It's merely a big kiss to Israel that will only inflame tensions in an already unstable region. It will cause further hatred and resentment towards America in the Muslim world and it will isolate us from other allies who are against Israel's expansionism and settlement activity. And for what? Is there something wrong with our current embassy? Will moving our embassy to Jerusalem make it easier for American diplomats to do their job? Of course not. It's a needless provocation that does not put America first like Trump claimed he would do. Instead, it puts Israel first, which is what some Americans seem to want.

It's a false problem. I'm not worried about people who hate me hating me more. Moving the embassy sends a clear message that the U.S. is in full support of really the only ally we have in the region.

MMC
01-24-2017, 01:44 PM
Jerusalem is divided. It's been a contentious areas for millennia. Trump wants to stick America's collective nose into that ancient quagmire in order to promote Israel's interests. He does this with no clear reasoning or strategy. It's merely a big kiss to Israel that will only inflame tensions in an already unstable region. It will cause further hatred and resentment towards America in the Muslim world and it will isolate us from other allies who are against Israel's expansionism and settlement activity. And for what? Is there something wrong with our current embassy? Will moving our embassy to Jerusalem make it easier for American diplomats to do their job? Of course not. It's a needless provocation that does not put America first like Trump claimed he would do. Instead, it puts Israel first, which is what some Americans seem to want.

Yes, its divided with Israel holding land and the Palestinians. Israel has the right to build on their land. Just as the Palestinians do.


Read Post 25.


Mr. Trump should either defer the decision for now, or combine it with a carefully planned diplomatic initiative to resolve Jerusalem first......snip~

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/o...tion.html?_r=0 (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/opinion/the-jerusalem-first-option.html?_r=0)

Oh, and Trump has made other moves first, That were for America before going to this issue. Do note that.

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 01:45 PM
Completely needless provocation that will accomplish nothing.
Agreed. Its kinda like the Mortgage thing he just did. Its like he just does it because he can. Doesn't seem to be a lot of thought behind it. Kind of a "I'm gonna show you who's in charge".

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 01:47 PM
It's only a provocation if you don't recognize Israel as a sovereign nation...
This claim that you can't be pro Israel and question the West Bank settlements is a false choice IMO.

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 01:48 PM
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/Portals/0/news/131219_westbank.jpg


The map shows the reality for what it is. Trump has said the Israelis have the Right to build on their land.

Just as it is for any other Nation.

And many including the international community and international courts say its not their land, its occupied land.

Ethereal
01-24-2017, 01:49 PM
It's a false problem. I'm not worried about people who hate me hating me more. Moving the embassy sends a clear message that the U.S. is in full support of really the only ally we have in the region.
Conflict with Muslims is a false problem? Interesting theory.

And sending Israel billions of tax dollars every year isn't a clear enough message that we support them? How much further should we stick our collective nose up Israel's ass before our fealty is sufficiently established?

Private Pickle
01-24-2017, 01:51 PM
Conflict with Muslims is a false problem? Interesting theory.

It is...because we already face a conflict with Muslims. Have for decades...


And sending Israel billions of tax dollars every year isn't a clear enough message that we support them? How much further should we stick our collective nose up Israel's ass before our fealty is sufficiently established?

We don't send Israel billions of dollars every year... Around $400M.

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 01:51 PM
Jerusalem is divided. It's been a contentious areas for millennia. Trump wants to stick America's collective nose into that ancient quagmire in order to promote Israel's interests. He does this with no clear reasoning or strategy. It's merely a big kiss to Israel that will only inflame tensions in an already unstable region. It will cause further hatred and resentment towards America in the Muslim world and it will isolate us from other allies who are against Israel's expansionism and settlement activity. And for what? Is there something wrong with our current embassy? Will moving our embassy to Jerusalem make it easier for American diplomats to do their job? Of course not. It's a needless provocation that does not put America first like Trump claimed he would do. Instead, it puts Israel first, which is what some Americans seem to want.
Exactly. I've asked this question several times in this thread now and have yet to get an answer. What good does this do? Whats the rationale aside from flipping the bird to the Palestinians?

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 01:53 PM
It's a false problem. I'm not worried about people who hate me hating me more. Moving the embassy sends a clear message that the U.S. is in full support of really the only ally we have in the region.

How does it do that, send a clear message that hasn't already been sent for the past 70 years?

Private Pickle
01-24-2017, 01:59 PM
How does it do that, send a clear message that hasn't already been sent for the past 70 years?

Because for the last 8 years Israel has been hung out to dry by the U.S. This reminds the region that we will continue to support Israel's sovereignty.

MMC
01-24-2017, 02:00 PM
And many including the international community and international courts say its not their land, its occupied land.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cRy85gjBiT8/S9lR8f548jI/AAAAAAAAATs/1m5G5UfeiOo/s1600/israel-tribes.jpg

Yet thru maps of the 12 Tribes of Israel and dated History.....the Israelis can show that it was always their land.

Ethereal
01-24-2017, 02:02 PM
It is...because we already face a conflict with Muslims. Have for decades...

The USA has been in conflict with Muslims for decades, so worsening that conflict is not really a problem? Is that what you're saying?


We don't send Israel billions of dollars every year... Around $400M.

No, it's billions.

http://blogs.reuters.com/data-dive/files/2015/03/IsraelAid030215-620.jpg

And before Obama left office, he signed a memorandum of understanding (https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf) which pledged $38 billion to Israel over the next ten years, the largest such MOU in American history.

So it's already been firmly established that the USA supports Israel. There is absolutely no need to reinforce that fact by deepening our servility to Israel with needlessly provocative actions.

Ethereal
01-24-2017, 02:04 PM
Because for the last 8 years Israel has been hung out to dry by the U.S. This reminds the region that we will continue to support Israel's sovereignty.
Hung out to dry? By sending them billions of dollars every year? By pledging to send them another $38 billion over the next ten years? If only the US government would hang me out to dry!

Ethereal
01-24-2017, 02:07 PM
Because for the last 8 years Israel has been hung out to dry by the U.S. This reminds the region that we will continue to support Israel's sovereignty.
Yes, I see how it benefits Israel's government. What I don't see is how it benefits the average American.

Private Pickle
01-24-2017, 02:07 PM
The USA has been in conflict with Muslims for decades, so worsening that conflict is not really a problem? Is that what you're saying?



No, it's billions.

http://blogs.reuters.com/data-dive/files/2015/03/IsraelAid030215-620.jpg

And before Obama left office, he signed a memorandum of understanding (https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf) which pledged $38 billion to Israel over the next ten years, the largest such MOU in American history.

So it's already been firmly established that the USA supports Israel. There is absolutely no need to reinforce that fact by deepening our servility to Israel with needlessly provocative actions.

I don't view this as deepening our servility rather just being open with our intentions.

Private Pickle
01-24-2017, 02:08 PM
Yes, I see how it benefits Israel's government. What I don't see is how it benefits the average American.
America's allies benefit Americans.

Private Pickle
01-24-2017, 02:09 PM
Hung out to dry? By sending them billions of dollars every year? By pledging to send them another $38 billion over the next ten years? If only the US government would hang me out to dry!
Politically, strategically and with our foreign policy we've made that region completely unstable over the last 8 years. Israel has the most to lose from that instability.

Ethereal
01-24-2017, 02:12 PM
I don't view this as deepening our servility rather just being open with our intentions.
The US government has made those intentions crystal clear for decades. No other country in the world is able to manipulate America like Israel. This will not benefit the average American in any clear or tangible way. It's just a big fat kiss to Israel.

Ethereal
01-24-2017, 02:13 PM
America's allies benefit Americans.
In what way does our alliance with Israel benefit the average American?

Ethereal
01-24-2017, 02:16 PM
Politically, strategically and with our foreign policy we've made that region completely unstable over the last 8 years. Israel has the most to lose from that instability.

Israel has been totally complicit in the destabilization of the region. Israel backed the removal of Saddam Hussein and they are presently backing the attempted removal of Bashar al-Assad. Israel is a not a victim, they are a perpetrator.

MMC
01-24-2017, 02:19 PM
In what way does our alliance with Israel benefit the average American?
Friends with Benefits: Why the U.S.-Israeli Alliance Is ... (http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/friends-with-benefits-why-the-u.s.-israeli-alliance-is-good-for-america)www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/friends-with...


[/URL]How the U.S. Gains from Israel Alliance - The Washington ... (http://www.bing.com/search?q=In+what+ways+does+Israel+benefit+the+US&form=PRHPR1&src=IE11TR&pc=EUPP_HRTS#)www.washingtoninstitute.org/...the-u.s.-gains-from-israel-alliance


US reaps mutual benefit of aid to Israel | ISRAEL21c (http://www.bing.com/search?q=In+what+ways+does+Israel+benefit+the+US&form=PRHPR1&src=IE11TR&pc=EUPP_HRTS#)www.israel21c.org/us-reaps-mutual-benefit-of-aid-to-Israel


[URL="https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-US-support-Israel-What-benefit-does-the-US-get-out-of-this-alliance"]Why does the US support Israel? What benefit does the US ... (http://www.bing.com/search?q=In+what+ways+does+Israel+benefit+the+US&form=PRHPR1&src=IE11TR&pc=EUPP_HRTS#)https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-US-support-Israel-What-benefi


Middle East, foreign relations: How Israel benefits the U ... (http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/31/opinion/la-oe-blackwill-israel-20111031)articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/31/opinion/la-oe-blackwill-israel...

MisterVeritis
01-24-2017, 02:25 PM
Keep twisting and turning boss, that's what dishonest debaters do. Twists and turns followed with personal missives.

The West Bank and East Jerusalem are considered "occupied" territories that were captured in the 67 war. The international community considers the settlements to be illegal under international law. The ironic part is these territories are governed by the Palestinian Authority and according to Israeli policy a part of the two state solution. Yet Israel keeps incrementally taking additional land for its settlements. One can argue as Veritis seems to want to do about "who owns the land" but in terms of the international community and international courts of law the Israelis are the occupiers on occupied land and have no business building there.


That's all beside the point though in terms of my earlier post in this thread. You claimed Trump didn't take a position on this and Green Arrow proved you wrong. Man up and admit it instead of keeping up with the twisteroo. You would probably gain a lot of respect were you to do so and its really ok to be wrong on occasion.
It is Israel's land to do with as they please.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 02:27 PM
Because for the last 8 years Israel has been hung out to dry by the U.S. This reminds the region that we will continue to support Israel's sovereignty.

*buzzer noise*

Wrong. Obama signed the biggest aid package to Israel in U.S. history.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 02:29 PM
Politically, strategically and with our foreign policy we've made that region completely unstable over the last 8 years. Israel has the most to lose from that instability.

Only in the last eight years? Giving al Qaeda a power vacuum in Afghanistan (2001) didn't destabilize it? Giving ISIL a power vacuum in Iraq (2003) didn't destabilize it?

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 02:31 PM
Friends with Benefits: Why the U.S.-Israeli Alliance Is ... (http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/friends-with-benefits-why-the-u.s.-israeli-alliance-is-good-for-america)

www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/friends-with...


How the U.S. Gains from Israel Alliance - The Washington ... (http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/how-the-u.s.-gains-from-israel-alliance)

www.washingtoninstitute.org/...the-u.s.-gains-from-israel-alliance


US reaps mutual benefit of aid to Israel | ISRAEL21c (http://www.israel21c.org/us-reaps-mutual-benefit-of-aid-to-israel/)

www.israel21c.org/us-reaps-mutual-benefit-of-aid-to-Israel


Why does the US support Israel? What benefit does the US ... (https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-US-support-Israel-What-benefit-does-the-US-get-out-of-this-alliance)

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-US-support-Israel-What-benefi


Middle East, foreign relations: How Israel benefits the U ... (http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/31/opinion/la-oe-blackwill-israel-20111031)

articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/31/opinion/la-oe-blackwill-israel...

I knew you'd come up with something with enough time on Google. Good for you.

MisterVeritis
01-24-2017, 02:32 PM
And many including the international community and international courts say its not their land, its occupied land.
There is no international community. It is a chimera. Israel owns the land. Thugs, including the Islamofascism supporter and his fellow travelers, want to take it away from them. It is not likely to happen.

Subdermal
01-24-2017, 02:36 PM
The West Bank is not Israeli land.
To whom does it belong?

Subdermal
01-24-2017, 02:37 PM
Only in the last eight years? Giving al Qaeda a power vacuum in Afghanistan (2001) didn't destabilize it? Giving ISIL a power vacuum in Iraq (2003) didn't destabilize it?
You got your power vacuum dates wrong, and you didn't touch upon the reasons for said vacuum. The reason wasn't Conservative policy. It was the dismissal of Conservative policy.

Subdermal
01-24-2017, 02:41 PM
Keep twisting and turning boss, that's what dishonest debaters do. Twists and turns followed with personal missives.

The West Bank and East Jerusalem are considered "occupied" territories that were captured in the 67 war. The international community considers the settlements to be illegal under international law. The ironic part is these territories are governed by the Palestinian Authority and according to Israeli policy a part of the two state solution. Yet Israel keeps incrementally taking additional land for its settlements. One can argue as Veritis seems to want to do about "who owns the land" but in terms of the international community and international courts of law the Israelis are the occupiers on occupied land and have no business building there.


That's all beside the point though in terms of my earlier post in this thread. You claimed Trump didn't take a position on this and Green Arrow proved you wrong. Man up and admit it instead of keeping up with the twisteroo. You would probably gain a lot of respect were you to do so and its really ok to be wrong on occasion.
How could the West Bank dual occupation be part of a 'two state solution' when Palestine flat refuses the terms of such a solution?

Palestine refuses to incorporate because doing so would force it to recognize Israel - and their charter (in writing) is dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

The problem isn't Israel. It's Palestine - and the ONLY reason that such a 'two state solution' was floated was because of Israel, in their attempt to create a lasting peace. The problem is this: in order to create a lasting peace, BOTH sides have to desire it.


Palestine tipped their hand to everyone but the obtuse leftist when they refused to accept said two state solution. They had already done so with the formation of HAMAS in immediate response to being given land by Israel in which to settle regardless, so their refusal to become a legitimate State - again at the behest of Israel - comes as no surprise to any of us save those same obtuse leftists.


Land is owned by those who can control it. What the UN blathers is of zero import: they aren't going to force Israel out, and that fact in particular is why it is so critical that the USA remains Israel's ally.

Israel - not Palestine, which is in essence a bunch of squatters as a consequence of a failure to incorporate (and get along with their neighbors in the process) - controls that land.

Proof of that is their control of Jerusalem, and - now - Trump is solidifying that control by moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem.

This isn't going to end well for Palestine, and it's their own damned fault.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 03:28 PM
To whom does it belong?

The Palestinians.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 03:29 PM
You got your power vacuum dates wrong, and you didn't touch upon the reasons for said vacuum. The reason wasn't Conservative policy. It was the dismissal of Conservative policy.

Nope. I was spot-on.

MisterVeritis
01-24-2017, 03:31 PM
The Palestinians.
No. It belongs to Israel.

Private Pickle
01-24-2017, 03:33 PM
In what way does our alliance with Israel benefit the average American?

Well let's see:

- Stands as a major roadblock to Russian intervention in the ME
- Stands as a major roadblock to extremism
- All but killed the Syrian and Iraqi nuclear arms programs
- They share intelligence on terrorism, nuclear proliferation and politics in the region.
- The U.S. takes it's approach to counterterrorism and homeland security straight from Israel
- We work in conjunction on military technology
- Israel is a defense supplier to the U.S.
- Israel is on the forefront of cyber and cooperation with U.S. companies was crucial to Silicon Valley's success.
- Israel is a world leader in water conservation and land management not to mention their pioneer companies on renewable energy which we copy. BrightSource Industries for example

Private Pickle
01-24-2017, 03:39 PM
Israel has been totally complicit in the destabilization of the region. Israel backed the removal of Saddam Hussein and they are presently backing the attempted removal of Bashar al-Assad. Israel is a not a victim, they are a perpetrator.
We removed Saddam Hussein...Israel didn't... We invaded Iraq, Israel didn't... Stop blaming Israel for things they had nothing to do with. We've supported Israel for decades and we are hitting record export rates in the ME today so obviously our relationship with Israel isn't causing the problem.

Private Pickle
01-24-2017, 03:41 PM
*buzzer noise*

Wrong. Obama signed the biggest aid package to Israel in U.S. history.

Keep reading...

Private Pickle
01-24-2017, 03:43 PM
Only in the last eight years? Giving al Qaeda a power vacuum in Afghanistan (2001) didn't destabilize it? Giving ISIL a power vacuum in Iraq (2003) didn't destabilize it?

That's on us....not on Israel...

MMC
01-24-2017, 03:53 PM
I knew you'd come up with something with enough time on Google. Good for you.

You looking a bit lite with only talking about what Trump says.

MMC
01-24-2017, 03:56 PM
The Palestinians.

Wrong.....the Palestinians weren't even thought of in Ancient History. Moreover they didn't wander into Israel's land until after the Assyrians conquered that area of land.

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 04:41 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cRy85gjBiT8/S9lR8f548jI/AAAAAAAAATs/1m5G5UfeiOo/s1600/israel-tribes.jpg

Yet thru maps of the 12 Tribes of Israel and dated History.....the Israelis can show that it was always their land.

So now we are going to go back to ancient maps to define borders? I'd think about that.

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 04:43 PM
It is Israel's land to do with as they please.
That would be one opinion, opinion being the operative word an opinion not shared by most of the international community and courts.

MMC
01-24-2017, 04:46 PM
So now we are going to go back to ancient maps to define borders? I'd think about that.


Just like when the leftness thinks of the excuses for the occupation of lands, huh?

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 04:47 PM
Just like when the leftness thinks of the excuses for the occupation of lands, huh?
Huh! Not sure what you mean here.

Common Sense
01-24-2017, 04:49 PM
Huh! Not sure what you mean here.

Gibberish is often hard to understand.

MMC
01-24-2017, 04:55 PM
Huh! Not sure what you mean here.

Oh didn't you bring up about the Israelis occupying the land?

Wasn't that one of the excuses? Israel's occupation.

Do you see any on the Right talking about Israel Occupying the land?

So now who does that leave in using that excuse?

MMC
01-24-2017, 04:56 PM
Gibberish is often hard to understand.

So try not to speak. As you only make yourself look more foolish than your what you look like.

Common Sense
01-24-2017, 05:39 PM
So try not to speak. As you only make yourself look more foolish than your what you look like.

Awesome.

MMC
01-24-2017, 05:44 PM
Awesome.

Val Kilmer thought so to. In a Weird Science kind of way.

Common Sense
01-24-2017, 05:47 PM
Val Kilmer thought so to. In a Weird Science kind of way.
Thought so "too". Regardless of the correction it still makes no sense.

Neither did your other post.

Communication is far more effective if it's clear.

MMC
01-24-2017, 05:57 PM
Thought so "too". Regardless of the correction it still makes no sense.

Neither did your other post.

Communication is far more effective if it's clear.

It appears only those of the leftness give rise to the claim. But then your kind does forget what they said after a few pages of a thread flips over.

Common Sense
01-24-2017, 06:06 PM
It appears only those of the leftness give rise to the claim. But then your kind does forget what they said after a few pages of a thread flips over.

So this sentence makes sense?...

"As you only make yourself look more foolish than your what you look like."

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 07:27 PM
No. It belongs to Israel.

No, it doesn't. Go Google the Oslo Accords. Israel agreed to a treaty giving control of Gaza and the West Bank to the Palestinians.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 07:29 PM
That's on us....not on Israel...
That's what I said.

Green Arrow
01-24-2017, 07:30 PM
Wrong.....the Palestinians weren't even thought of in Ancient History. Moreover they didn't wander into Israel's land until after the Assyrians conquered that area of land.
Completely irrelevant. Under that logic the Italians own all of Europe. The Israelis agreed to a treaty giving the West Bank and Gaza to the Palestinians.

Hal Jordan
01-24-2017, 08:23 PM
To whom does it belong?
Me. I'm still waiting for my rent check from my tenants.

Hal Jordan
01-24-2017, 08:26 PM
So now we are going to go back to ancient maps to define borders? I'd think about that.

What have the Romans ever done for us?

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 09:59 PM
Awesome.
What's that quote about opening ones mouth and removing all doubt?

ripmeister
01-24-2017, 10:01 PM
It appears only those of the leftness give rise to the claim. But then your kind does forget what they said after a few pages of a thread flips over.
You are on a roll dude. Keep up the good work.

Hal Jordan
01-25-2017, 12:19 AM
You are on a roll dude. Keep up the good work.
I doubt he understands sarcasm.

Ethereal
01-25-2017, 12:35 AM
Well let's see:

- Stands as a major roadblock to Russian intervention in the ME
- Stands as a major roadblock to extremism
- All but killed the Syrian and Iraqi nuclear arms programs
- They share intelligence on terrorism, nuclear proliferation and politics in the region.
- The U.S. takes it's approach to counterterrorism and homeland security straight from Israel
- We work in conjunction on military technology
- Israel is a defense supplier to the U.S.
- Israel is on the forefront of cyber and cooperation with U.S. companies was crucial to Silicon Valley's success.
- Israel is a world leader in water conservation and land management not to mention their pioneer companies on renewable energy which we copy. BrightSource Industries for example
Of the things you've listed (I'll put aside their accuracy for the moment), which ones do you think require an alliance between the USA and Israel? Because we share intelligence, strategies, tactics, and technology with countries who are not our allies. Russia, for example.

Ethereal
01-25-2017, 12:48 AM
We removed Saddam Hussein...Israel didn't... We invaded Iraq, Israel didn't... Stop blaming Israel for things they had nothing to do with. We've supported Israel for decades and we are hitting record export rates in the ME today so obviously our relationship with Israel isn't causing the problem.

The Israeli lobby heavily influences US foreign policy decisions, including our decision to remove Saddam Hussein as well as our attempt to remove Bashar al-Assad.


THE ISRAEL LOBBY AND U.S. FOREIGN POLICY (http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu/pdfs/IsraelLobby.pdf)

John J. Mearsheimer, Stephen M. Walt

Dr. Mearsheimer is a professor in the Department of Political Science at the University of Chicago. Dr. Walt is a professor at the John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University.

...On August 16, 2002, eleven days before Vice President Cheney kicked off the campaign for war with a hard-line speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, The Washington Post reported that "Israel is urging U.S. officials not to delay a military strike against Iraq's Saddam Hussein." By this point, according to Sharon, strategic coordination between Israel and the United States had reached "unprecedented dimensions," and Israeli intelligence officials had given Washington a variety of alarming reports about Iraq's WMD programs. As one retired Israeli general later put it, "Israeli intelligence was a full partner to the picture presented by American and British intelligence regarding Iraq's non-conventional capabilities."

...Once Baghdad fell in mid-April 2003, Sharon and his lieutenants began urging Washington to target Damascus. On 16 April, Sharon, interviewed in Yedioth Ahronoth, called for the United States to put ‘very heavy’ pressure on Syria, while Shaul Mofaz, his defence minister, interviewed in Ma’ariv, said: ‘We have a long list of issues that we are thinking of demanding of the Syrians and it is appropriate that it should be done through the Americans.’ Ephraim Halevy told a WINEP audience that it was now important for the US to get rough with Syria, and the Washington Post reported that Israel was ‘fuelling the campaign’ against Syria by feeding the US intelligence reports about the actions of Bashar Assad, the Syrian president.

MMC
01-25-2017, 06:50 AM
So this sentence makes sense?...

"As you only make yourself look more foolish than your what you look like."

Which English word confused you?

Yes it made sense.....as I took in account your physical appearance. Which isn't IMO, so manly.

MMC
01-25-2017, 07:07 AM
No, it doesn't. Go Google the Oslo Accords. Israel agreed to a treaty giving control of Gaza and the West Bank to the Palestinians.

The Oslo Accords are a failure.....is that not true? Who accepts the Oslo Accords?

Hamas refused to give the Oslo Accords any legitimacy.....is that not true?

Peter1469
01-25-2017, 08:34 AM
I am against the move. For one it costs a lot to build an embassy to meet standards for such facilities. For another, all it will do is increase violence and put a target on the US and its interests.

William
01-25-2017, 08:35 AM
Maybe not to you illiberals.....but then illiberals are mentally challenged.

I have no opinion on where the US builds their Embassy in Israel, but the quoted post is indirectly attacking another member by implying that he is part of a group which has mental problems. It is not posting in good faith, and is the sort of behaviour which will attract sanctions (maybe even bans,) in the foreseeable future. Take this as a friendly heads-up. :smiley:

MMC
01-25-2017, 08:46 AM
I have no opinion on where the US builds their Embassy in Israel, but the quoted post is indirectly attacking another member by implying that he is part of a group which has mental problems. It is not posting in good faith, and is the sort of behaviour which will attract sanctions (maybe even bans,) in the foreseeable future. Take this as a friendly heads-up. :smiley:

Really.....and did you know going personal is also not posting in good faith. Yet that is exactly what you just did. As you could have not deflected from the thread and sent a PM. Isnt that correct?

So before looking to preach. Try not being part of the choir when looking to stand on some Righteous Ground. Got that. Remember that for future reference.

Oh and one last thing. You need to keep your preaching on display when others are doing the same thing. As we wouldn't want you to be considered as a Biased Hypocrite.

Common Sense
01-25-2017, 08:49 AM
Which English word confused you?

Yes it made sense.....as I took in account your physical appearance. Which isn't IMO, so manly.
Sorry dude, it's a word salad. While the words are English, the order in which they appear renders them gibberish.

Not to mention you have no idea what I look like.

MMC
01-25-2017, 08:51 AM
Sorry dude, it's a word salad. While the words are English, the order in which they appear renders them gibberish.

Not to mention you have no idea what I look like.

Whatever....you actually think I give a shit what you think or look like. And here you call yourself Common Sense. Now that's some funny shit.

Common Sense
01-25-2017, 08:53 AM
Lol...

MMC
01-25-2017, 08:58 AM
Lol...

http://politirant.com/Smileys/oldrant/pointlaugh.gif

William
01-25-2017, 09:17 AM
Really.....and did you know going personal is also not posting in good faith. Yet that is exactly what you just did. As you could have not deflected from the thread and sent a PM. Isnt that correct?

So before looking to preach. Try not being part of the choir when looking to stand on some Righteous Ground. Got that. Remember that for future reference.

Oh and one last thing. You need to keep your preaching on display when others are doing the same thing. As we wouldn't want you to be considered as a Biased Hypocrite.

I have tried to be as polite and low key as possible in this communication, but I am given to understand that part of my responsibilities as a VIP member includes issuing that sort of warning in the interests of civilised discussion. There is nothing personal in the carrying out of such duties, nor are they in breach of forum guidelines. But do carry on - I have done my bit.

MMC
01-25-2017, 09:25 AM
I have tried to be as polite and low key as possible in this communication, but I am given to understand that part of my responsibilities as a VIP member includes issuing that sort of warning in the interests of civilised discussion. There is nothing personal in the carrying out of such duties, nor are they in breach of forum guidelines. But do carry on - I have done my bit.

Is that what you think. Have you learned yet who use to be VIPS or set the VIPS up. Where did you think PM's didn't apply to what you thought.

Yeah you did your bit.....the fucking wrong way.

Green Arrow
01-25-2017, 10:12 AM
The Oslo Accords are a failure.....is that not true? Who accepts the Oslo Accords?

Hamas refused to give the Oslo Accords any legitimacy.....is that not true?

The Palestinians agreed to the Accords, despite it only giving them 22% of the land to Israel's 78%. Israel also agreed to it.

The West Bank belongs to Palestinians. End of story.

MisterVeritis
01-25-2017, 10:19 AM
No, it doesn't. Go Google the Oslo Accords. Israel agreed to a treaty giving control of Gaza and the West Bank to the Palestinians.
Yes. It does.

When the Islamofascists live up to their end of whatever deal was struck we can have another conversation. Arabs combined forces to attack Israel. Arabs lost.

Now that we have an American President to replace the Islamofascist supporter who used to be in the White House we can support Israel's position against the Islamofascists and the IslamoNAZIs. It will be a positive, refreshing change. Meanwhile, the settlements are facts on the ground.

MisterVeritis
01-25-2017, 10:22 AM
The Palestinians agreed to the Accords, despite it only giving them 22% of the land to Israel's 78%. Israel also agreed to it.
The West Bank belongs to Palestinians. End of story.
:-) It is hardly the end of the story. Of course, you know that.

Private Pickle
01-25-2017, 11:35 AM
Of the things you've listed (I'll put aside their accuracy for the moment), which ones do you think require an alliance between the USA and Israel? Because we share intelligence, strategies, tactics, and technology with countries who are not our allies. Russia, for example.
On a DRASTICALLY different level. Also it's not like Russia is sharing intel on things like the political situation in the Ukraine. Apples to oranges.

Private Pickle
01-25-2017, 11:37 AM
The Israeli lobby heavily influences US foreign policy decisions, including our decision to remove Saddam Hussein as well as our attempt to remove Bashar al-Assad.
They can lobby all they want. It's our ability to be influenced which is the problem. At the end of the day someone can lobby for something and be denied. The U.S. alone has caused exponentially more instability in the region than the U.S./Israeli alliance.

Private Pickle
01-25-2017, 11:39 AM
I am against the move. For one it costs a lot to build an embassy to meet standards for such facilities. For another, all it will do is increase violence and put a target on the US and its interests.
That target has existed for decades...

Private Pickle
01-25-2017, 11:40 AM
Is that what you think. Have you learned yet who use to be VIPS or set the VIPS up. Where did you think PM's didn't apply to what you thought.

Yeah you did your bit.....the fucking wrong way.

Agreed

MMC
01-25-2017, 11:56 AM
The Palestinians agreed to the Accords, despite it only giving them 22% of the land to Israel's 78%. Israel also agreed to it.

The West Bank belongs to Palestinians. End of story.

Are you denying that Hamas gave no legitimacy to the Oslo Accords? The Oslo Accords are a failure. Neither side recognizes them.

Ethereal
01-25-2017, 12:46 PM
They can lobby all they want. It's our ability to be influenced which is the problem. At the end of the day someone can lobby for something and be denied. The U.S. alone has caused exponentially more instability in the region than the U.S./Israeli alliance.

None of that changes the fact that the Israeli lobby does influence US foreign policy, to include the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and the attempted removal of Assad in Syria. The US is basically acting as Israel's personal hit-man in the region. So to claim that Israel has "nothing" to do with the instability there is erroneous.

Private Pickle
01-25-2017, 12:56 PM
None of that changes the fact that the Israeli lobby does influence US foreign policy, to include the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and the attempted removal of Assad in Syria. The US is basically acting as Israel's personal hit-man in the region. So to claim that Israel has "nothing" to do with the instability there is erroneous.

The fact that you have a Jewish State in the Middle East is the root of the instability. Everything you are pointing to is a reaction of that very simple fact.

And Israel is capable of being it's own hit man as evidenced time and time again. We simply stop them from being invaded or invading. Moving the Embassy to Israel reinforces that fact.