American Civil War

[Evmetro]

I am confident that regardless of which side of the aisle you are on, pretty much anybody on the this site can see that the political atmosphere is more heated than it has been in a very long time. I do not see an end in site to the political civil war that is being fought in America right now, but sometimes I wonder just how far this war will go. For those who wonder the same, how far do you think this civil war will go? Does anybody suspect that it will escalate to an actual gunfight?

I suspect that many here will want to post why their side is right, and that the other side needs to abandon their position, but I am interested in finding out if anybody suspects that the civil war will escalate to an all out gunfight. Comments?

Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread, since I accept that it is a popular way for lefties to debate politics with righties. I do not think you guys should be punished for using standard lefty debate techniques, but please at least give me a simple yes or no without explanation, before derailing the thread or stating that this must be a troll thread.

I will go first here: I would not be surprised to see the civil political war escalate to a more war like climate. I don't see either side backing down, I predict miltary involvement at some point, and I predict violence to escalate from the left first, since they have less power in the government.

Comments?

[Captain Obvious]

It's up to the left, they're the more radical, more aggressive side.

I don't care what any of the partisan hacks say here, nothing like this was witnessed during teh O'bama's two terms. Nothing close.

I've stated this before, the left will I think go militant.

[Safety]

lawlz.

[Croft]

The left has committed constant violence during and since the election. They seem to think they have some kind of right to do it. And the media went into overdrive straight after the election to convince everyone that the opposite was happening. If Trump starts deportations and that triggers increased leftie violence against people who support Trump then I still think Trumpers will only fight in self defense. I can't see them systematically assaulting lefties like a war.

[Captain Obvious]

The left has committed constant violence during and since the election. They seem to think they have some kind of right to do it. And the media went into overdrive straight after the election to convince everyone that the opposite was happening. If Trump starts deportations and that triggers increased leftie violence against people who support Trump then I still think Trumpers will only fight in self defense. I can't see them systematically assaulting lefties like a war.

Yup

If there's any civil disorder it's going to be at the hands of the left.

It already is so far.

[Crepitus]

I am confident that regardless of which side of the aisle you are on, pretty much anybody on the this site can see that the political atmosphere is more heated than it has been in a very long time. I do not see an end in site to the political civil war that is being fought in America right now, but sometimes I wonder just how far this war will go. For those who wonder the same, how far do you think this civil war will go? Does anybody suspect that it will escalate to an actual gunfight?

I suspect that many here will want to post why their side is right, and that the other side needs to abandon their position, but I am interested in finding out if anybody suspects that the civil war will escalate to an all out gunfight. Comments?

Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread, since I accept that it is a popular way for lefties to debate politics with righties. I do not think you guys should be punished for using standard lefty debate techniques, but please at least give me a simple yes or no without explanation, before derailing the thread or stating that this must be a troll thread.

I will go first here: I would not be surprised to see the civil political war escalate to a more war like climate. I don't see either side backing down, I predict miltary involvement at some point, and I predict violence to escalate from the left first, since they have less power in the government.

Comments?

Oh look, another OP that is just another excuse to talk badf about "lefties" from the liar who can't decide which side of the aisle he posts from.

Dismissed as garbage.

[Safety]

Oh look, another OP that is just another excuse to talk badf about "lefties" from the liar who can't decide which side of the aisle he posts from.

Dismissed as garbage.

Seems like he was using the right stink bait, he snagged a few river sturgeons.

[Crepitus]

Well, for that matter he got me to post too.

[Bethere]

Yup

If there's any civil disorder it's going to be at the hands of the left.

It already is so far.

Mister veritas talks civil war all day everyday. So does pete and subdermal.

[Don]

Its a cowardly way they are doing it. A bunch of them jumping on one or a few Trump supporters. Loud tough talk. Actually screaming and raving like maniacs. Busting windows and burning property. Militant? Hell no! If it ever came to anything like real urban warfare they would evaporate from the scene faster than you could say boo. Some day they will probably cross a line of no return. The national guard may have to be called out.....to save them from a populace that finally says enough is enough. A populace that says

https://youtu.be/h97kbv4mbsc

[Crepitus]

Mister veritas talks civil war all day everyday. So does pete and subdermal.

Ayup. Mac used to be pretty big on that as well as Grassroot conservative.

I have yet to see a single person who isn't a radical conservative say anything like that though.

[Doublejack]

Nope

Not enough crazy people on either side of the isle. Aside from the doom and gloom portrayed by the media (like this site), the vast majority of americans just want to go to work and then buy stuff... that's about it.

Real life people ... Not all that exciting really.

[Peter1469]

Mister veritas talks civil war all day everyday. So does pete and subdermal.

Liar. But typical to your posting style.

The only thing that I ever said about it was who would fight?

[donttread]

I am confident that regardless of which side of the aisle you are on, pretty much anybody on the this site can see that the political atmosphere is more heated than it has been in a very long time. I do not see an end in site to the political civil war that is being fought in America right now, but sometimes I wonder just how far this war will go. For those who wonder the same, how far do you think this civil war will go? Does anybody suspect that it will escalate to an actual gunfight?

I suspect that many here will want to post why their side is right, and that the other side needs to abandon their position, but I am interested in finding out if anybody suspects that the civil war will escalate to an all out gunfight. Comments?

Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread, since I accept that it is a popular way for lefties to debate politics with righties. I do not think you guys should be punished for using standard lefty debate techniques, but please at least give me a simple yes or no without explanation, before derailing the thread or stating that this must be a troll thread.

I will go first here: I would not be surprised to see the civil political war escalate to a more war like climate. I don't see either side backing down, I predict miltary involvement at some point, and I predict violence to escalate from the left first, since they have less power in the government.

Comments?

Actually I think the mainstream donkephant will implode on it's own. It's already begun. This will open doors for third aprties and quite possibly a coalition congress.

[Evmetro]

Oh look, another OP that is just another excuse to talk badf about "lefties" from the liar who can't decide which side of the aisle he posts from.

Dismissed as garbage.

In paragraph 3 of my op, I not only predicted your standard response to any thread that I start, but I also welcomed it. You only missed one tiny detail in that paragraph.


Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread, since I accept that it is a popular way for lefties to debate politics with righties. I do not think you guys should be punished for using standard lefty debate techniques, but please at least give me a simple yes or no without explanation, before derailing the thread or stating that this must be a troll thread.

[Evmetro]

I have yet to see a single person who isn't a radical conservative say anything like that though.

There are only two kinds of conservatives. Radical conservatives are real conservatives, and regular conservatives who are actually just lefties who have jacked a righty term. As the political war rages on, you may find that it becomes simpler to just go with righties and lefties, based upon which side they are fighting from.

[donttread]

There are only two kinds of conservatives. Radical conservatives are real conservatives, and regular conservatives who are actually just lefties who have jacked a righty term. As the political war rages on, you may find that it becomes simpler to just go with righties and lefties, based upon which side they are fighting from.

Actually the two kinds of conservatives are "fiscal" and "social"

[MisterVeritis]

Mister veritas talks civil war all day everyday. So does pete and subdermal.
I believe it is inevitable. We might as well prepare for it. Arm up. Train up. Band together with like-minded individuals.

The left appears to be implementing a strategy to make America ungovernable. It will take shed blood to resolve this in our favor. In my opinion sooner is better than later.

[DGUtley]

Seems like he was using the right stink bait, he snagged a few river sturgeons.

Please guys, we don't claim him.

[MisterVeritis]

There are only two kinds of conservatives. Radical conservatives are real conservatives, and regular conservatives who are actually just lefties who have jacked a righty term. As the political war rages on, you may find that it becomes simpler to just go with righties and lefties, based upon which side they are fighting from.
It is possible there are two kinds of conservatives. I see it as Constitutional Conservatives and those who have not yet discovered the Constitution.

[Chris]

I am confident that regardless of which side of the aisle you are on, pretty much anybody on the this site can see that the political atmosphere is more heated than it has been in a very long time. I do not see an end in site to the political civil war that is being fought in America right now, but sometimes I wonder just how far this war will go. For those who wonder the same, how far do you think this civil war will go? Does anybody suspect that it will escalate to an actual gunfight?

I suspect that many here will want to post why their side is right, and that the other side needs to abandon their position, but I am interested in finding out if anybody suspects that the civil war will escalate to an all out gunfight. Comments?

Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread, since I accept that it is a popular way for lefties to debate politics with righties. I do not think you guys should be punished for using standard lefty debate techniques, but please at least give me a simple yes or no without explanation, before derailing the thread or stating that this must be a troll thread.

I will go first here: I would not be surprised to see the civil political war escalate to a more war like climate. I don't see either side backing down, I predict miltary involvement at some point, and I predict violence to escalate from the left first, since they have less power in the government.

Comments?



If you want discussion from both sides you should NOT poison the well of discussion.

(Edited to add NOT.)

[Crepitus]

In paragraph 3 of my op, I not only predicted your standard response to any thread that I start, but I also welcomed it. You only missed one tiny detail in that paragraph.

Still garbage.

[Evmetro]

Actually the two kinds of conservatives are "fiscal" and "social"

That was in the old days when all those political terms were meant to identify one's political position or stance. Lefties have hijacked all of the political terms now, and we don't know who people really are when they identify themselves with one of those old terms. It became trendy for lefties to identify with righty political terms, even hybrid combinations of them, kinda like lefties identify with the wrong restroom. The real genders and political positions of lefties are still what they are, they just "identify" with descriptions that are inaccurate. There are now only two relevant political terms, and they describe the two sides of the political civil war that America is engaged in right now. If you did not actively block Hillary with a vote for her opponent, you are a lefty. If you believe or side with the MSM media, you are a lefty. There are folks who identify as fiscal conservatives and as social conservatives who are really just lefties identifying as something that they are not, so I don't believe anybody anymore when they say what they are.

[Evmetro]

Still garbage.

Thank you, I appreciate your trolling. I know that this is a standard form of lefty debate, so thank you for your communication, even if it was in lefty dialect. I think I can decode your dialect though, since I spent most of my life as a lefty. You are saying that it basically sucks that I was able to accurately predict your posts before they even happened, right there in my op. It also looks like you are saying that you have not really thought much about how much the civil war could escalate, but that you would support any level of war, as long as lefties get to loot righties in the end.

[Cletus]

If you want discussion from both sides you should NOT poison the well of discussion.

(Edited to add NOT.)

Really?

From YOU? :grin:

[Cletus]

At some point, someone will cross the line and commit an act of violence that will result in a retaliatory response. The provocation will most likely come from the Left.

However, I am inclined to believe that any such flare ups will be localized and of short duration and not result in all out shooting war. It would take a really extreme act on a large scale to trigger something like that and I, at least right now, don't see that happening.

[Evmetro]

If you want discussion from both sides you should NOT poison the well of discussion.


Too little, too late. The two opposing sides of the political war are polarized at this point, and there are no efforts being made to negotiate a cease fire or truce. The well is already quite poisoned. Regardless of how I worded the op, crepitas would have trolled it the same way, and the usual lefties would have looked for the best way to marginalize it, just like they already do, so it is easier to just be honest. You can read through thread after thread on this site, and see that no actual political discussion is actually taking place, and that this site is not the altruistic place that it claims to promote. Righties start a thread, and the lefty all flock onto it and add as much weight as possible to pull it down. The VIP members who are studying to move up higher in the forum government add a little extra lefty weight, and the thread gets ugly. It does not matter if you kiss lefty ass with nice wording, the thread is going to get trolled to death either way. We are engaged in a political war here.

Speaking of how threads get trolled to death and derailed, how much do you suspect the civil war will escalate?

[FindersKeepers]

At some point, someone will cross the line and commit an act of violence that will result in a retaliatory response. The provocation will most likely come from the Left.


That seems the most likely, given the current political atmosphere.

However, I am inclined to believe that any such flare ups will be localized and of short duration and not result in all out shooting war. It would take a really extreme act on a large scale to trigger something like that and I, at least right now, don't see that happening.

That also makes sense.

[Evmetro]

At some point, someone will cross the line and commit an act of violence that will result in a retaliatory response. The provocation will most likely come from the Left.

However, I am inclined to believe that any such flare ups will be localized and of short duration and not result in all out shooting war. It would take a really extreme act on a large scale to trigger something like that and I, at least right now, don't see that happening.

I wish Chris would take notice of how you were able to read an OP, and then post a response that is related to the OP. This is basic forum protocol on forums all over the internet. If members met such basic protocol, even if it was only in their initial post on that thread, there would be a lot more actual discussion. Thanks Cletus, for responding in an appropriate way.

[Cletus]

Thanks Cletus, for responding in an appropriate way.

My pleasure.

It is a good topic, worthy of discussion.

[donttread]

That was in the old days when all those political terms were meant to identify one's political position or stance. Lefties have hijacked all of the political terms now, and we don't know who people really are when they identify themselves with one of those old terms. It became trendy for lefties to identify with righty political terms, even hybrid combinations of them, kinda like lefties identify with the wrong restroom. The real genders and political positions of lefties are still what they are, they just "identify" with descriptions that are inaccurate. There are now only two relevant political terms, and they describe the two sides of the political civil war that America is engaged in right now. If you did not actively block Hillary with a vote for her opponent, you are a lefty. If you believe or side with the MSM media, you are a lefty. There are folks who identify as fiscal conservatives and as social conservatives who are really just lefties identifying as something that they are not, so I don't believe anybody anymore when they say what they are.

Like the tea party. Some were real, but many were "Johnny come latelies without a fiscal conservative , small government bone in their bodies. They were just looking to ride the coattails of the real deals. But you can sort them out easy enough with some research and some time

[Chris]

Really?

From YOU? :grin:

"Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread" is not only well poisoning but trolling itself.

[nic34]

This thread only sounds like a call to arms by like-minded righty trolls.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d9/2c/74/d92c748dfd77952b575732836a3b4874.jpg

Now tell us about your GLOCKS! :laugh:

[MisterVeritis]

This thread only sounds like a call to arms by like-minded righty trolls.

Now tell us about your GLOCKS! :laugh:
A Glock is a secondary weapon. Our minds are our primary weapons.

[Cletus]

Now tell us about your GLOCKS! :laugh:

What do you want to know?

[Crepitus]

Thank you, I appreciate your trolling. I know that this is a standard form of lefty debate, so thank you for your communication, even if it was in lefty dialect. I think I can decode your dialect though, since I spent most of my life as a lefty. You are saying that it basically sucks that I was able to accurately predict your posts before they even happened, right there in my op. It also looks like you are saying that you have not really thought much about how much the civil war could escalate, but that you would support any level of war, as long as lefties get to loot righties in the end.

Actually that's an honest opinion. Sorry you don't seem to be able to tell the difference.

[donttread]

This thread only sounds like a call to arms by like-minded righty trolls.



https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d9/2c/74/d92c748dfd77952b575732836a3b4874.jpg

Now tell us about your GLOCKS! :laugh:

When someone outside of your circle asks you about your guns the correct response is "Who me? I don't own any guns"

[Chris]

Actually that's an honest opinion. Sorry you don't seem to be able to tell the difference.

You actually understand any of his post?

[Cletus]

When someone outside of your circle asks you about your guns the correct response is "Who me? I don't own any guns"

I own a good number of guns. I think the last inventory was about 70.

I don't care who knows it.

[Evmetro]

"Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread" is not only well poisoning but trolling itself.

What information do you have that suggests that "Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread" is not in fact the truth? Do you really think that the trolls would respond appropriately to my threads if I kissed lefty ass all the way through my opening posts? The two sides of this civil war are polarized Chris, and the lefties are going to troll anything and everything that any righty says, does, or posts. This is not meant as an insult, this is the ugly truth. If we are to discuss politics on this site, you need to see that the only language that is being spoken about politics these days is ugliness. Everybody sounds like a troll to everybody else, and the notion that this site is some kind of altruistic friendly discussion place is a pipe dream. Since everybody sounds like a troll to everybody else, what you see as trolling is simply an opposing point of view.

[Evmetro]

When someone outside of your circle asks you about your guns the correct response is "Who me? I don't own any guns"

I don't own any either.

[Evmetro]

The more I think about this civil war, the more I think it has to escalate to a street fight. Nobody is showing any signs of wanting to back down or negotiate, and the hate is growing. Some crazy stuff is going to happen if the right is to hold off the mob of lefties outside the gates, who are ready to loot us. I don't know what yet, but I think we are in for a wilder ride than most of us suspect.

I do not believe that lefties will stop trying to loot and mob the right if they are not stopped, kinda like a mean dog won't stop trying to kill unless you kick him hard enough or shoot him. I suspect that this civil war will get to a point where the kicking and shooting comes into play. I can already see the gates shaking from the mob of lefties just outside the gates who are shaking them and chanting.

[Crepitus]

You actually understand any of his post?

I understand it better than you do if you don't see it as 100% trolling.

[Chris]

I understand it better than you do if you don't see it as 100% trolling.

I'm actually not sure it's intended to mean anything of significance. There's the pretense of taking a stand on something, without something defined or the stand defended. Form without function. Sound and fury.

[Crepitus]

I'm actually not sure it's intended to mean anything of significance. There's the pretense of taking a stand on something, without something defined or the stand defended. Form without function. Sound and fury.

In short, trolling.

[Chris]

In short, trolling.

Why you're relentless aren't you.

[Crepitus]

Why you're relentless aren't you.

Determined to call a spade a spade.

[Bethere]

A Glock is a secondary weapon. Our minds are our primary weapons.

Then you are doomed.

[Bethere]

What information do you have that suggests that "Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread" is not in fact the truth? Do you really think that the trolls would respond appropriately to my threads if I kissed lefty ass all the way through my opening posts? The two sides of this civil war are polarized Chris, and the lefties are going to troll anything and everything that any righty says, does, or posts. This is not meant as an insult, this is the ugly truth. If we are to discuss politics on this site, you need to see that the only language that is being spoken about politics these days is ugliness. Everybody sounds like a troll to everybody else, and the notion that this site is some kind of altruistic friendly discussion place is a pipe dream. Since everybody sounds like a troll to everybody else, what you see as trolling is simply an opposing point of view.

Not necessarily.

[Evmetro]

Not necessarily.

I do not see where you responded appropriately to the opening post, which means you are not here to talk about the topic of the thread. Troll. Chris is not here to talk about the topic of the thread, he is here to assert what trolling is, and make sure everyone knows he is in charge. Troll. Crepitus has not responded to the OP either, he is just clinging to the thread as extra weight to try and pull it down. Troll. Show me where you or the other lefties on this thread have talked about the opening post. Every thread that I read on this site has the same pattern, where people don't respond to opening posts with anything related to the opening post. Trolling is just the standard way that lefties and righties communicate on this site, and in this civil war that we are fighting.

[Ravens Fan]

I do not see where you responded appropriately to the opening post, which means you are not here to talk about the topic of the thread. Troll. Chris is not here to talk about the topic of the thread, he is here to assert what trolling is, and make sure everyone knows he is in charge. Troll. Crepitus has not responded to the OP either, he is just clinging to the thread as extra weight to try and pull it down. Troll. Show me where you or the other lefties on this thread have talked about the opening post. Every thread that I read on this site has the same pattern, where people don't respond to opening posts with anything related to the opening post. Trolling is just the standard way that lefties and righties communicate on this site, and in this civil war that we are fighting.
Evmetro Stop the trolling and insults.

[Bethere]

"Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread, since I accept that it is a popular way for lefties to debate politics with righties."--Evmetro.

[Dr. Who]

I am confident that regardless of which side of the aisle you are on, pretty much anybody on the this site can see that the political atmosphere is more heated than it has been in a very long time. I do not see an end in site to the political civil war that is being fought in America right now, but sometimes I wonder just how far this war will go. For those who wonder the same, how far do you think this civil war will go? Does anybody suspect that it will escalate to an actual gunfight?

I suspect that many here will want to post why their side is right, and that the other side needs to abandon their position, but I am interested in finding out if anybody suspects that the civil war will escalate to an all out gunfight. Comments?

Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread, since I accept that it is a popular way for lefties to debate politics with righties. I do not think you guys should be punished for using standard lefty debate techniques, but please at least give me a simple yes or no without explanation, before derailing the thread or stating that this must be a troll thread.

I will go first here: I would not be surprised to see the civil political war escalate to a more war like climate. I don't see either side backing down, I predict miltary involvement at some point, and I predict violence to escalate from the left first, since they have less power in the government.

Comments?
The rift between the left and the right has been growing for years. The elections of Trump or even Obama have just exacerbated the divide because you have two often mutually exclusive ideologies where socio-economic issues are concerned. Added to that you have politicians at all levels of government who are more concerned with partisanship than operating a functional society and a media that is driving the separation for their own monetary benefit. Politics are increasingly becoming reality TV with all of the incumbent melodrama that is entailed. Citizens are either operating on soundbites or furiously reading not only the shameful histories of their leaders, but also the shameful history of their government.

I suspect that it will get much worse before it gets better.

[Evmetro]

The rift between the left and the right has been growing for years. The elections of Trump or even Obama have just exacerbated the divide because you have two often mutually exclusive ideologies where socio-economic issues are concerned. Added to that you have politicians at all levels of government who are more concerned with partisanship than operating a functional society and a media that is driving the separation for their own monetary benefit. Politics are increasingly becoming reality TV with all of the incumbent melodrama that is entailed. Citizens are either operating on soundbites or furiously reading not only the shameful histories of their leaders, but also the shameful history of their government.

I suspect that it will get much worse before it gets better.

We may have opposite politically, but you have gained my respect. There are not many people left these days who can still take an objective look at an op, and then assemble a reply that fits the op, but you are one of them. You have made some solid observations, in my opinion. I like the soundbites thing, and I see this problem on both sides of the aisle.

[Casper]

I am confident that regardless of which side of the aisle you are on, pretty much anybody on the this site can see that the political atmosphere is more heated than it has been in a very long time. I do not see an end in site to the political civil war that is being fought in America right now, but sometimes I wonder just how far this war will go. For those who wonder the same, how far do you think this civil war will go? Does anybody suspect that it will escalate to an actual gunfight?

I suspect that many here will want to post why their side is right, and that the other side needs to abandon their position, but I am interested in finding out if anybody suspects that the civil war will escalate to an all out gunfight. Comments?

Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread, since I accept that it is a popular way for lefties to debate politics with righties. I do not think you guys should be punished for using standard lefty debate techniques, but please at least give me a simple yes or no without explanation, before derailing the thread or stating that this must be a troll thread.

I will go first here: I would not be surprised to see the civil political war escalate to a more war like climate. I don't see either side backing down, I predict miltary involvement at some point, and I predict violence to escalate from the left first, since they have less power in the government.

Comments?
Sadly, you are probably correct, that is if the left continues to protest and even riot and if the government overreacts to put an end to it. Personally I would prefer people calmed down some and wait and see what is going to happen, a little early in the game to be calling for Impeachment and especially too soon to call for Revolution. That said before anyone wishes too hard for a real fight they better know that the majority of Citizens are on their side, otherwise they will lose before the fight actually starts, right now the Left does not have that support, but does not mean that they will not get it eventually. History is interesting to watch unfold, but that does equate to it being fun or something one wants to actually live through.

[Crepitus]

The rift between the left and the right has been growing for years. The elections of Trump or even Obama have just exacerbated the divide because you have two often mutually exclusive ideologies where socio-economic issues are concerned. Added to that you have politicians at all levels of government who are more concerned with partisanship than operating a functional society and a media that is driving the separation for their own monetary benefit. Politics are increasingly becoming reality TV with all of the incumbent melodrama that is entailed. Citizens are either operating on soundbites or furiously reading not only the shameful histories of their leaders, but also the shameful history of their government.

I suspect that it will get much worse before it gets better.

Paragraph 3 of the post you quoted by Evmetro causes me to ask a question of you in your moderator capacity:

How is that not blatant intentional over-the-top trolling and why has no moderation action been taken on it?

[Cletus]

Paragraph 3 of the post you quoted by Evmetro causes me to ask a question of you in your moderator capacity:

How is that not blatant intentional over-the-top trolling and why has no moderation action been taken on it?

Good grief. :rollseyes:

[donttread]

I own a good number of guns. I think the last inventory was about 70.

I don't care who knows it.

OK, then the confiscators will come for you first and the government can leave those of us clever enough to conceal what we own, alone. Keep em busy for a while when they show up.

[donttread]

The rift between the left and the right has been growing for years. The elections of Trump or even Obama have just exacerbated the divide because you have two often mutually exclusive ideologies where socio-economic issues are concerned. Added to that you have politicians at all levels of government who are more concerned with partisanship than operating a functional society and a media that is driving the separation for their own monetary benefit. Politics are increasingly becoming reality TV with all of the incumbent melodrama that is entailed. Citizens are either operating on soundbites or furiously reading not only the shameful histories of their leaders, but also the shameful history of their government.

I suspect that it will get much worse before it gets better.

Actually Bush and Obama spoke of two totally different ideologies in terms of rhetoric but pretty much did the same things in terms of actions. Make constant war, provide lots of corporte welfare, intrude even further on state's and individual rights and of course spend and borrow like a teenager with mom and dad's credit card .
I think the people are finally learning how to differentiate between what they say and what they actually do. It requires a 2-8 year attention span which is where all the distracrtions come in. But I think they're getting it and will start forcing politiicians to God forbid actually produce and act in the best interest and wishes of the people they represent.

[rcfieldz]

The Democrats are so infuriated by the way the Republicans were able to stall and overturn so much of Obama's agenda that they are coming back with everything they got. Barack was using his position for doing things that were detrimental to the Union. I get it but the young are too stupid and easily led. The yelling and language needs to be calmer or the crazies are gonna break,torch and paint this nation into a hell hole.

[donttread]

The Democrats are so infuriated by the way the Republicans were able to stall and overturn so much of Obama's agenda that they are coming back with everything they got. Barack was using his position for doing things that were detrimental to the Union. I get it but the young are too stupid and easily led. The yelling and language needs to be calmer or the crazies are gonna break,torch and paint this nation into a hell hole.


Yes he was auditioning for "Globalist Supreme Promoter" and throwing a hissy fit . He defintetly did things that are against America's interest on his way out the door. But not against the "Union" because the "Union" existed only as long as extremely strong state's rights existed. And that day has come and gone, at least for now.

[rcfieldz]

Yes he was auditioning for "Globalist Supreme Promoter" and throwing a hissy fit . He defintetly did things that are against America's interest on his way out the door. But not against the "Union" because the "Union" existed only as long as extremely strong state's rights existed. And that day has come and gone, at least for now.
I find it unbelievable the rights a governor or judge is given to block the actions of the president today without a courtroom.

[Peter1469]

Trump transcends the left and right model. His American first populism upset the left right model. The Democrats writing off white working people to focus on all left wing fringe groups made it easier for the working class to abandon the Democrats in November.


The rift between the left and the right has been growing for years. The elections of Trump or even Obama have just exacerbated the divide because you have two often mutually exclusive ideologies where socio-economic issues are concerned. Added to that you have politicians at all levels of government who are more concerned with partisanship than operating a functional society and a media that is driving the separation for their own monetary benefit. Politics are increasingly becoming reality TV with all of the incumbent melodrama that is entailed. Citizens are either operating on soundbites or furiously reading not only the shameful histories of their leaders, but also the shameful history of their government.

I suspect that it will get much worse before it gets better.

[Peter1469]

It sounds like a general political opinion. Glass have empty, but an opinion nevertheless. I would disagree with it and extol the virtues of gridlock. Get the government out of the way.


Paragraph 3 of the post you quoted by Evmetro causes me to ask a question of you in your moderator capacity:

How is that not blatant intentional over-the-top trolling and why has no moderation action been taken on it?

[Peter1469]

Right. It is amusing that many people take their (Ds) or (Rs) seriously and oppose the other when both parties take basically the same overall actions.


Actually Bush and Obama spoke of two totally different ideologies in terms of rhetoric but pretty much did the same things in terms of actions. Make constant war, provide lots of corporte welfare, intrude even further on state's and individual rights and of course spend and borrow like a teenager with mom and dad's credit card .
I think the people are finally learning how to differentiate between what they say and what they actually do. It requires a 2-8 year attention span which is where all the distracrtions come in. But I think they're getting it and will start forcing politiicians to God forbid actually produce and act in the best interest and wishes of the people they represent.

[Crepitus]

It sounds like a general political opinion. Glass have empty, but an opinion nevertheless. I would disagree with it and extol the virtues of gridlock. Get the government out of the way.

How is this:


Lefty trolls, I anticipate and welcome your trolling on this thread, since I accept that it is a popular way for lefties to debate politics with righties. I do not think you guys should be punished for using standard lefty debate techniques, but please at least give me a simple yes or no without explanation, before derailing the thread or stating that this must be a troll thread.

A general political opinion?

[Chris]

Right. It is amusing that many people take their (Ds) or (Rs) seriously and oppose the other when both parties take basically the same overall actions.


"I believe that democracy has so far disappeared in the United States that no "two evils" exist. There is but one evil party with two names, and it will be elected despite all I can do or say." -- W.E.B. Dubois

[Subdermal]

Paragraph 3 of the post you quoted by Evmetro causes me to ask a question of you in your moderator capacity:

How is that not blatant intentional over-the-top trolling and why has no moderation action been taken on it?

Is your PM broken?

[Subdermal]

How is this:



A general political opinion?[/COLOR]

He's addressing "lefty trolls". That means those who should pay attention self-identify as leftists, and trolls.

Are you worried he's talking to you? Are you worried he's talking to lots of your friends? By definition, if you're a lefty and not a troll, why would you worry about it?

[Crepitus]

Is your PM broken?

I think that is one the whole forum deserves an answer to.

[Crepitus]

He's addressing "lefty trolls". That means those who should pay attention self-identify as leftists, and trolls.

Are you worried he's talking to you? Are you worried he's talking to lots of your friends? By definition, if you're a lefty and not a troll, why would you worry about it?

He is and has been calling all "lefties" trolls since the day he signed up.

[Peter1469]

Report it. The moderators act off reports.

How is this:



A general political opinion?[/COLOR]

[Crepitus]

Report it. The moderators act off reports.

I have.

[Chris]

PMs are broken?

[Cletus]

OK, then the confiscators will come for you first and the government can leave those of us clever enough to conceal what we own, alone. Keep em busy for a while when they show up.

Won't happen. Even if by some weird set of circumstances, the Feds decided to confiscate civilian owned firearms, no one is going to come after my guns. Yours perhaps, but not mine.

[Ravens Fan]

Paragraph 3 of the post you quoted by Evmetro causes me to ask a question of you in your moderator capacity:

How is that not blatant intentional over-the-top trolling and why has no moderation action been taken on it?
Crepitus Questions on moderation should be addressed by using the report function or by PM. Note that there is a warning already on this thread addressing your concern.

[nic34]

Won't happen. Even if by some weird set of circumstances, the Feds decided to confiscate civilian owned firearms, no one is going to come after my guns. Yours perhaps, but not mine.

Oh yeah? But we know where you live....:grin:

[resister]

Won't happen. Even if by some weird set of circumstances, the Feds decided to confiscate civilian owned firearms, no one is going to come after my guns. Yours perhaps, but not mine.A benefit of muzzleloaders is zero paper work, they are a bitch to load and clean but when loaded, 6 shots of 44 single action are ready to go.

[Subdermal]

I think that is one the whole forum deserves an answer to.

Your self-importance is not a good reason to violate rules.

[Subdermal]

He is and has been calling all "lefties" trolls since the day he signed up.
Stop complaining, if the shoe fits.

[Evmetro]

He's addressing "lefty trolls". That means those who should pay attention self-identify as leftists, and trolls.

Are you worried he's talking to you? Are you worried he's talking to lots of your friends? By definition, if you're a lefty and not a troll, why would you worry about it?

This is the magic. The only people who even notice it are the ones who would hammer this thread 11 times about it, without once addressing the American Civil War that the thread is about. The pnenomenon described in that paragraph 3 becomes self evident as it manifests.

[Evmetro]

Won't happen. Even if by some weird set of circumstances, the Feds decided to confiscate civilian owned firearms, no one is going to come after my guns. Yours perhaps, but not mine.

Aren't you supposed to keep one or two registered guns around so they think they have confiscated all of your guns?

[Peter1469]

Aren't you supposed to keep one or two registered guns around so they think they have confiscated all of your guns?

Not a bad idea.

[Cletus]

I have.

A community of snitches and informants.

Well, that is what some here want.

[Cletus]

A benefit of muzzleloaders is zero paper work, they are a bitch to load and clean but when loaded, 6 shots of 44 single action are ready to go.

What a lot of people don't realize is that even when you purchase a firearm from a dealer and undergo the mandatory FBI NICS check and fill out the ATF form 4473, the Feds have no record of your purchase. When the dealer submits your NICS check, the record of that check is automatically purged from the FBI's database 24 hours after the check is completed unless a Delay or Deny response is received. The Feds are prohibited by federal law from keeping that information and compiling any kind of firearm owner database.

The ATF form 4473 is kept by the dealer. No information on it is transmitted to the Feds. If the Feds ever started a nationwide gun confiscation program, there would be bonfires popping up all over the country as 4473s went up in flames.

[Evmetro]

What a lot of people don't realize is that even when you purchase a firearm from a dealer and undergo the mandatory FBI NICS check and fill out the ATF form 4473, the Feds have no record of your purchase. When the dealer submits your NICS check, the record of that check is automatically purged from the FBI's database 24 hours after the check is completed unless a Delay or Deny response is received. The Feds are prohibited by federal law from keeping that information and compiling any kind of firearm owner database.

The ATF form 4473 is kept by the dealer. No information on it is transmitted to the Feds. If the Feds ever started a nationwide gun confiscation program, there would be bonfires popping up all over the country as 4473s went up in flames.

But do we trust that the record check is really purged?

[resister]

But do we trust that the record check is really purged?
You beet me to it! I have little faith in gov. being truth full, especially the last anti gun admin.

[Cletus]

But do we trust that the record check is really purged?

That is a good question.

Here is what I know... President Reagan signed the Firearms Owners Protection Act in law, which prohibited any federal agency of compiling a firearms owners database. The FBI was found by the IG's office to be acting not in compliance with that act a few years ago. They were supposed to do a manual dump of any records pertaining to NICS checks once every 24 hours. Sometimes, it was being done, sometimes, it was not. As a consequence, they were ordered to have software installed on the NICS system that would take the purge out of their control and do it automatically, 24 hours to the minute after a check was finalized. That software has supposedly been in use for the last 3-4 years or so.

Now, is it actually doing what it is supposed to do?

I do not know.

The up side is that in the NICS check, the only information the FBI actually gets is that a background check is being performed for the purpose of purchasing a firearm. There are no specifics about the gun except whether it is a handgun or a long gun. They don't even get notification that the transaction is completed. The form that really matters is the 4473. It contains all the particulars on the gun... make, model, serial number, caliber. The only way the Feds can access that information however is if a law enforcement agency requests a firearms trace as part of an active criminal investigation. Then, they can only get information pertaining to the specific gun in question.

I would like to think that if a national confiscation effort was ever started by the Feds that FFls around the country would be working their shredders overtime and running their burn barrels until they melt. I am sure some would roll over, but hopefully not most.

[Crepitus]

Your self-importance is not a good reason to violate rules.

Well obviously you have no idea who I think I am!

[Crepitus]

Stop complaining, if the shoe fits.

Stealing my lines?

That's low, even for a conservative.

[Cletus]

Oh yeah? But we know where you live....:grin:

I don't know if you are familiar with the history of the "Battle of Gonzales" (It wasn't really much of a battle as far as battles go.), but this sums it, and my response to your post, up quite nicely.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LboPqPT-hlE/RvZyYGwoe-I/AAAAAAAAACI/Dj78Fynq5Lg/S269/100_4840.JPG :cool2:

[Dr. Who]

Paragraph 3 of the post you quoted by Evmetro causes me to ask a question of you in your moderator capacity:

How is that not blatant intentional over-the-top trolling and why has no moderation action been taken on it?
Perhaps because the equal existence of righty trolls, or trolling as the (in the view of the OP) normative expression of political dispute has already been also admitted by the OP as the putative status quo on forums in general. Also, more simply, general statements of political disdain as opposed to personal slights, are not routinely moderated unless they cross into the realm of open discrimination on the basis of gender, race, religion or sexual orientation.

[MisterVeritis]

Given the Leftist Federal court's coup attempt today have we moved closer to a civil war? Does the law as it is plainly written mean anything any more?

[Cletus]

Perhaps because the equal existence of righty trolls, or trolling as the (in the view of the OP) normative expression of political dispute has already been also admitted by the OP as the putative status quo on forums in general. Also, more simply, general statements of political disdain as opposed to personal slights, are not routinely moderated unless they cross into the realm of open discrimination on the basis of gender, race, religion or sexual orientation.

You haven't been paying attention lately, have you?

[NapRover]

The divide is definitely expanding, there may be some extremist flare ups and probably some lone wolf tragedies, but I don't think civil war is in the works. The lone wolves on each side are enough to worry me, have never applied for concealed carry, but wife is encouraging me to get it.

[Dr. Who]

Trump transcends the left and right model. His American first populism upset the left right model. The Democrats writing off white working people to focus on all left wing fringe groups made it easier for the working class to abandon the Democrats in November.
I will admit that he may well be a catalyst for change. That doesn't, however, mean that the catalyst itself won't result in a very bad situation that will compel a great deal of introspection and then a recipe for change.

[Common Sense]

I will admit that he may well be a catalyst for change. That doesn't, however, mean that the catalyst itself won't result in a very bad situation that will compel a great deal of introspection and then a recipe for change.
In the same way a left leaning president like Obama created a reaction from those who felt he didn't represent their values, the same may happen with Trump. It seems the reaction to Trump has been a groundswell of civic engagement.

[donttread]

I find it unbelievable the rights a governor or judge is given to block the actions of the president today without a courtroom.


The state's have rediscoved that they have rights . They realize that if they disobey the feds in any area not enumerated as a federal power in the Constitution and the feds press the matter , it could wind up in court . That means the feds could lose much of their usurped power over the states nation wide. Pretty serious risk for Uncle Sam right now so they will pick and choose their battles. Bring on the textualist!

[Cletus]

In the same way a left leaning president like Obama created a reaction from those who felt he didn't represent their values, the same may happen with Trump. It seems the reaction to Trump has been a groundswell of civic engagement.

If by "groundswell of civic engagement" you mean an excuse to act like a bunch of spoiled little children throwing temper tantrums in public, I would have to agree with you. The big difference is that as a general rule, little kids don't destroy private property or use violence to get their way. If you people would just sit there and hold your breath until you mom gives you a cookie, this whole discussion would not be taking place.

[donttread]

Won't happen. Even if by some weird set of circumstances, the Feds decided to confiscate civilian owned firearms, no one is going to come after my guns. Yours perhaps, but not mine.

I wonder how many German's and Russians thought that before the massacres? hat's the spirit.

[donttread]

A community of snitches and informants.

Well, that is what some here want.

Why not ? The DEC has a rat your neoghbor out program

[donttread]

The divide is definitely expanding, there may be some extremist flare ups and probably some lone wolf tragedies, but I don't think civil war is in the works. The lone wolves on each side are enough to worry me, have never applied for concealed carry, but wife is encouraging me to get it.

We need to try civil disobiedence and lots of it, before even discussing civil war.

[Cletus]

I wonder how many German's and Russians thought that before the massacres? hat's the spirit.

You don't quite get it. Where I live, I am the guy the cops come to when they are having trouble with their firearms. I am the guy who helps fix their marksmanship problems. I am the guy they send their family members and friends to for defensive firearms training.

I have had this discussion. If the feds ever initiated a program like that and tried to enforce it, they couldn't do it without the locals and here, they won't get it. Our Sheriff has already openly said he won't enforce or allow his deputies to enforce any laws or orders that deprive the citizenry of their Second Amendment protections. Guys on the municipal PD have talked to me many times about ways to thwart any federal effort in that direction.

I don't know where you live, but here, unless the Feds want to roll in with armor and air support, it is just not going to happen.

[Ethereal]

It's my personal belief that the "union" is destined for some kind of dissolution or radical devolution. Whether it will be precipitated by armed conflict or organized secession or some combination of the two I cannot say. Probably we will see some sporadic violence and perhaps a low intensity insurgency, but somehow I doubt it will morph into a large scale armed conflict like it did during the "civil war". Most Americans, no matter what they claim on the internet, do not want to fight and possibly die in a war just to preserve some abstract "union".

[Ethereal]

In a republic, the manners, sentiments, and interests of the people should be similar. If this be not the case, there will be a constant clashing of opinions; and the representatives of one part will be continually striving against those of the other. This will retard the operations of government, and prevent such conclusions as will promote the public good. If we apply this remark to the condition of the United States, we shall be convinced that it forbids that we should be one government. The United States includes a variety of climates. The productions of the different parts of the union are very variant, and their interests, of consequence, diverse. Their manners and habits differ as much as their climates and productions; and their sentiments are by no means coincident. The laws and customs of the several states are, in many respects, very diverse, and in some opposite; each would be in favor of its own interests and customs, and, of consequence, a legislature, formed of representatives from the respective parts, would not only be too numerous to act with any care or decision, but would be composed of such heterogenous and discordant principles, as would constantly be contending with each other.
--Brutus, 1787

[Ethereal]

What a lot of people don't realize is that even when you purchase a firearm from a dealer and undergo the mandatory FBI NICS check and fill out the ATF form 4473, the Feds have no record of your purchase. When the dealer submits your NICS check, the record of that check is automatically purged from the FBI's database 24 hours after the check is completed unless a Delay or Deny response is received. The Feds are prohibited by federal law from keeping that information and compiling any kind of firearm owner database.

That doesn't mean they're actually obeying the law though.

[NapRover]

We need to try civil disobiedence and lots of it, before even discussing civil war.
A little civil disobedience never hurt anyone. But rioting isn't that, nor is impeding progress on an interstate highway. Or impeding law, fire or ambulances.

[Ransom]

We need to try civil disobiedence and lots of it, before even discussing civil war.

donttread already laid the foundation here by refusing to listen, in fact blocking out every bit of US and World history they attempted to teach him. All his history teachers merely sounded like Charlie Brown's teacher to him.

Way to lead by example, D.

[donttread]

You don't quite get it. Where I live, I am the guy the cops come to when they are having trouble with their firearms. I am the guy who helps fix their marksmanship problems. I am the guy they send their family members and friends to for defensive firearms training.

I have had this discussion. If the feds ever initiated a program like that and tried to enforce it, they couldn't do it without the locals and here, they won't get it. Our Sheriff has already openly said he won't enforce or allow his deputies to enforce any laws or orders that deprive the citizenry of their Second Amendment protections. Guys on the municipal PD have talked to me many times about ways to thwart any federal effort in that direction.

I don't know where you live, but here, unless the Feds want to roll in with armor and air support, it is just not going to happen.

I'm in a pretty gun friendly area too, but not a gun friendly state. Obviously if your in the gun bussiness you can't keep the ownership to yourself . I honestly don't expect confiscation in my lifetime but you never know I never dreamed I'd see a sea hag run against a reality tv star for president either

[donttread]

donttread already laid the foundation here by refusing to listen, in fact blocking out every bit of US and World history they attempted to teach him. All his history teachers merely sounded like Charlie Brown's teacher to him.

Way to lead by example, D.

Could you explain ,in your own special needs kind of way, what your response has to do with my post.?BTW, isn't America too young a country for it's history to be meaningful to you? Or is it only the last 50-70 years that you refuse to acknowledge?

[donttread]

Right. It is amusing that many people take their (Ds) or (Rs) seriously and oppose the other when both parties take basically the same overall actions.


It can be amusing but it is mostly sad and a testement to how people can be so easily manipulated.

[Cletus]

I'm in a pretty gun friendly area too, but not a gun friendly state. Obviously if your in the gun bussiness you can't keep the ownership to yourself . I honestly don't expect confiscation in my lifetime but you never know I never dreamed I'd see a sea hag run against a reality tv star for president either

You are right. In this weird political climate, anything could happen.

In my case, you are also right. I own two businesses. The first is a private investigations and security firm and the second is a firearms dealership which specializes in defensive firearms training (handgun, shotgun and patrol rifle). It would be kind of difficult for me to pretend not to own any firearms, particularly since I am on the range just about every week working with others to help develop their combat shooting skills. What I do have working for me is a very close working relationship with local law enforcement, close enough that I get calls from their Dispatch asking if we can respond to activated burglar alarms for them if their officers are tied up.

I live in a state that is very gun friendly, although right now, we are having to fight a battle with the Democrats who hold power in the legislature. They have introduced a bill that would effectively prohibit private firearm sales. All sales would have to go through an FFL. The Governor is not likely to sign it if it passes, but it serves as another indicator of why Democrats should never be allowed to take power again.

The Feds would have a very hard time instituting any kind of gun confiscation scheme here. Local law enforcement would not cooperate and just about everybody is armed. That could change. We are constantly getting refugees from places like New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles. The more of them we get, the more we hear their Liberal squawking.

Maybe we need our own wall.

[donttread]

You are right. In this weird political climate, anything could happen.

In my case, you are also right. I own two businesses. The first is a private investigations and security firm and the second is a firearms dealership which specializes in defensive firearms training (handgun, shotgun and patrol rifle). It would be kind of difficult for me to pretend not to own any firearms, particularly since I am on the range just about every week working with others to help develop their combat shooting skills. What I do have working for me is a very close working relationship with local law enforcement, close enough that I get calls from their Dispatch asking if we can respond to activated burglar alarms for them if their officers are tied up.

I live in a state that is very gun friendly, although right now, we are having to fight a battle with the Democrats who hold power in the legislature. They have introduced a bill that would effectively prohibit private firearm sales. All sales would have to go through an FFL. The Governor is not likely to sign it if it passes, but it serves as another indicator of why Democrats should never be allowed to take power again.

The Feds would have a very hard time instituting any kind of gun confiscation scheme here. Local law enforcement would not cooperate and just about everybody is armed. That could change. We are constantly getting refugees from places like New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles. The more of them we get, the more we hear their Liberal squawking.

Maybe we need our own wall.

Good for you, it sounds like a dream job. Well not the PI part but the other one. Just curious do you incorporate any martial arts type gun take away techniques or warn your students to keep a little distance between themselves and the guy they are holding the gun on?

[Cletus]

Good for you, it sounds like a dream job. Well not the PI part but the other one. Just curious do you incorporate any martial arts type gun take away techniques or warn your students to keep a little distance between themselves and the guy they are holding the gun on?

We have them practice weapon retention techniques to help them prevent THEIR guns from being taken if they are rushed or end up going to ground, but in the firearms courses, we don't teach any gun take away techniques.

Distance is your friend.

As far as the dream job goes... I have found that I prefer teaching over field work theses days. Still do both, but I am leaning more toward the teaching/armorer stuff than the other.

[donttread]

It's my personal belief that the "union" is destined for some kind of dissolution or radical devolution. Whether it will be precipitated by armed conflict or organized secession or some combination of the two I cannot say. Probably we will see some sporadic violence and perhaps a low intensity insurgency, but somehow I doubt it will morph into a large scale armed conflict like it did during the "civil war". Most Americans, no matter what they claim on the internet, do not want to fight and possibly die in a war just to preserve some abstract "union".


You think a "Union" still exist?

[Ethereal]

You think a "Union" still exist?
Only insofar as it is backed up by coercion, intimidation, and extortion.