Blame congress

[Docthehun]

We give kids "timeouts", why not this bunch?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/09/marco-rubio-just-gave-a-really-important-speech-but-almost-no-one-paid-attention/

[Crepitus]

The final nail in the coffin for "civilized debate" in the senate was the election of a black man to the white house. Conservatives went completely off the edge and somewhere in the last 8 years the liberals went after them.

[MMC]

You can't debate those who have lost their grip on Reality.



Senior Moment: Pelosi Declares There's Not A Single Issue She Can Work On With...President Bush?.....



Well, if progressives were hoping to have a competent opposition to the Trump White House with congressional Democrats, this little senior moment from House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi isn’t really a confidence booster. At a press conference on Monday, Pelosi said:


[…While its only a couple of weeks since the inauguration, there’s complete evidence—there’s prac[sic]—we've seen nothing that we can work—that I can work with President Bush on and I’m disappointed because I thought that there might be some interest because of what he said in the campaign, which turns out to be not true, a hoax—and really dangerous to the economic stability of America’s working families.]


President Bush? Of course, she meant President Trump—and even her colleagues standing behind her, specifically Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA), caught the error given their facial expressions.


Know your enemy. For a moment, it appeared as if Pelosi didn’t know who won the election. This is what happens when you view every Republican as the spawn of Satan. You lose your grip on reality. .....snip~


http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/02/08/senior-moment-pelosi-declares-theres-not-a-single-issue-she-can-work-on-withpresident-bush-n2282983

[Docthehun]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/job-crowd-repeatedly-shouts-down-070904099.html

[NapRover]

The final nail in the coffin for "civilized debate" in the senate was the election of a black man to the white house. Conservatives went completely off the edge and somewhere in the last 8 years the liberals went after them.
Substitute the words alinsky-ite, black liberation theologian, radical, reparations-obsessed, racist socialist for black man, and I believe you've arrived at the truth.

[Peter1469]

Right. His policies had nothing to do with opposition to..., his policies. :shocked:



The final nail in the coffin for "civilized debate" in the senate was the election of a black man to the white house. Conservatives went completely off the edge and somewhere in the last 8 years the liberals went after them.

[DGUtley]

The final nail in the coffin for "civilized debate" in the senate was the election of a black man to the white house. Conservatives went completely off the edge and somewhere in the last 8 years the liberals went after them.

Why. Why. Why do you refuse to see that for most of us it had zero to do with the color of his skin? Why?

17205

I see it this way:

The first nail was when the left refused to acknowledge W's presidency. The second nail in the coffin for "civilized debate" in the senate was the election of a LWNJ hellbent on fundamental transformation to the white house. Conservatives went completely off the edge and somewhere in the last 8 years the liberals went after them.

[Chris]

We give kids "timeouts", why not this bunch?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/09/marco-rubio-just-gave-a-really-important-speech-but-almost-no-one-paid-attention/


Bunch? Congress? Yes, send them all hoe so they can grow up and learn to debate issues civilly.

[Crepitus]

Substitute the words alinsky-ite, black liberation theologian, radical, reparations-obsessed, racist socialist for black man, and I believe you've arrived at the truth.

Uh, no.

[Crepitus]

Right. His policies had nothing to do with opposition to..., his policies. :shocked:

Actually it was the other way around. His support radicalized policies that had never been considered extreme before.

[Crepitus]

Why. Why. Why do you refuse to see that for most of us it had zero to do with the color of his skin? Why?

17205

I see it this way:

The first nail was when the left refused to acknowledge W's presidency. The second nail in the coffin for "civilized debate" in the senate was the election of a LWNJ hellbent on fundamental transformation to the white house. Conservatives went completely off the edge and somewhere in the last 8 years the liberals went after them.

Oh it was absolutely a joint effort Sir. I do however feel very strongly that while race may not have been a motivating fact for you and some few others it was indeed for most of the right wing base.

[Peter1469]

Actually it was the other way around. His support radicalized policies that had never been considered extreme before.

wut?

People voted for Congress and they got a say.

[Hal Jordan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA

[Ravens Fan]

Oh it was absolutely a joint effort Sir. I do however feel very strongly that while race may not have been a motivating fact for you and some few others it was indeed for most of the right wing base.
I think that train of thought is exactly why the left is out of power now. You guys refused to see that while there were some motivated by prejudice, most simply did not like his policies and the way the race card was constantly played to try and drown them out.

[DGUtley]

Oh it was absolutely a joint effort Sir. I do however feel very strongly that while race may not have been a motivating fact for you and some few others it was indeed for most of the right wing base.

Maybe I'm wrong and completely out of touch, but most of us just don't think in those terms. We weren't raised that way. We were raised to disregard things that people can't control and to judge people on the merits of their character and ideals. I'm 54 years old and from the day I was born my parents taught me to disregard race in judging people; I've taught my children that same way and I judged Obama on his policies. Well, truthfully, also sometimes on his smug arrogance, but mostly on his policies. Yes, I know that there are racists out there but I truly think they are in the vast minority. Again, I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not.

[donttread]

We give kids "timeouts", why not this bunch?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/09/marco-rubio-just-gave-a-really-important-speech-but-almost-no-one-paid-attention/

Talk about going around "Ben's barn" to make a point that right in front of you. I was watching that clip saying "spit it the fuck out son, make your point". I can't watch C_SPAN because it seems to induce HBP where I'm normally under good control without medication except a lasix. But if you have a stronger stomach than I watch C-SPAN and divide the time into some catagories.
1) Puttting down other members and parties
2) Horn Blowing
3) Useless rhetoric taking seven minutes to say 2 minutes worth of content
4) Down right bickering
5) Actually meaningfully addressing the issues before them

[donttread]

The final nail in the coffin for "civilized debate" in the senate was the election of a black man to the white house. Conservatives went completely off the edge and somewhere in the last 8 years the liberals went after them.

Yes congress was a straight forward, straight shooting , truthful bunch with mutual respect for one another before 2008. LOL

[Crepitus]

wut?

People voted for Congress and they got a say.

You are missing the propaganda aspect. Things that weren't so bad before were deemed radical and unacceptable if president Obama supported them

[Crepitus]

I think that train of thought is exactly why the left is out of power now. You guys refused to see that while there were some motivated by prejudice, most simply did not like his policies and the way the race card was constantly played to try and drown them out.

Im.afraid we will just have to agree to disagree on this point.

[Ravens Fan]

Im.afraid we will just have to agree to disagree on this point.
And that is fine. But the longer you continue to paint all disagreement as racially/sexist based, the further your side will lose support. People do not like being called intolerant for holding opposing opinions.

[Peter1469]

I was raised that way as well. And that was rare for where I was born.
Maybe I'm wrong and completely out of touch, but most of us just don't think in those terms. We weren't raised that way. We were raised to disregard things that people can't control and to judge people on the merits of their character and ideals. I'm 54 years old and from the day I was born my parents taught me to disregard race in judging people; I've taught my children that same way and I judged Obama on his policies. Well, truthfully, also sometimes on his smug arrogance, but mostly on his policies. Yes, I know that there are racists out there but I truly think they are in the vast minority. Again, I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not.

[Peter1469]

You are missing the propaganda aspect. Things that weren't so bad before were deemed radical and unacceptable if president Obama supported them

The Tea Party(ies) came about around 2008 and yes, government spending money that it didn't have became a radical concept that needed to be opposed.

[Crepitus]

Maybe I'm wrong and completely out of touch, but most of us just don't think in those terms. We weren't raised that way. We were raised to disregard things that people can't control and to judge people on the merits of their character and ideals. I'm 54 years old and from the day I was born my parents taught me to disregard race in judging people; I've taught my children that same way and I judged Obama on his policies. Well, truthfully, also sometimes on his smug arrogance, but mostly on his policies. Yes, I know that there are racists out there but I truly think they are in the vast minority. Again, I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not.

Believe me, I would much rather that be the case, but personal experience of the average individual in my area argues against it.

[pjohns]

The final nail in the coffin for "civilized debate" in the senate was the election of a black man to the white house. Conservatives went completely off the edge and somewhere in the last 8 years the liberals went after them.

And your proof of the assertion of racism is...what, exactly?

[Cletus]

The final nail in the coffin for "civilized debate" in the senate was the election of a black man to the white house. Conservatives went completely off the edge and somewhere in the last 8 years the liberals went after them.

Do you actually believe any of the nonsense you post?

[Crepitus]

The Tea Party(ies) came about around 2008 and yes, government spending money that it didn't have became a radical concept that needed to be opposed.

But it's not now since we're gonna spend a few billion on a wall?

[Peter1469]

But it's not now since we're gonna spend a few billion on a wall?

Fiscal conservativism is out of the picture (which is tragic from my perspective). For the last two years I have been explaining this.

Nationalism v. Globalism is what drives politics in the West now.

[nic34]

The Tea Party(ies) came about around 2008 and yes, government spending money that it didn't have became a radical concept that needed to be opposed.


What, like during the Reagan years trying to outspend the Russians..... That was the 1980s!

What/Where are our priorities now?

[Peter1469]

What, like during the Reagan years trying to outspend the Russians..... That was the 1980s!

What/Where are our priorities now?

The Cold War is over.

If I were in charge my priorities would be to eliminate the deficit. Nobody in charge agrees.

[Don]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA


What what what?

[pjohns]

And your proof of the assertion of racism is...what, exactly?
As this is so very much to the point, I have borrowed it from a poster on another forum:

.http://thepoliticsforums.com/image.php?u=311&type=sigpic&dateline=1485237189.

[DGUtley]

Believe me, I would much rather that be the case, but personal experience of the average individual in my area argues against it.


I was raised that way as well. And that was rare for where I was born.

That's sad. It's disappointing. I see it at times. I enjoy putting them in their place when they play little word games to try to code racism.

[DGUtley]

But it's not now since we're gonna spend a few billion on a wall?

If we are going to do that, I want to pay-as-you-go.

[del]

that's always been a hallmark of donald trump

pay as you go

/s

[patrickt]

The final nail in the coffin for "civilized debate" in the senate was the election of a black man to the white house. Conservatives went completely off the edge and somewhere in the last 8 years the liberals went after them.

Sorry, but for the racist Democrats it all has to be about race. I have no use for a president who hates America and I really don't care what color he claims to be.

What kind of American orders people from the Syria into the U.S. willy-nilly and sends Cubans back to the dictators running their island? What kind of American allies himself with Iran and Hamas against our ally, Israel? What kind of American attends a church for twenty years where the minister, his mentor, screams, "God damn America?"

I realize that since Democrats cannot accept responsibility for anything they've done they have to blame someone, each other, or someone else. Lacking a sense of responsibility means lacking any sense of shame.

[donttread]

Maybe I'm wrong and completely out of touch, but most of us just don't think in those terms. We weren't raised that way. We were raised to disregard things that people can't control and to judge people on the merits of their character and ideals. I'm 54 years old and from the day I was born my parents taught me to disregard race in judging people; I've taught my children that same way and I judged Obama on his policies. Well, truthfully, also sometimes on his smug arrogance, but mostly on his policies. Yes, I know that there are racists out there but I truly think they are in the vast minority. Again, I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not.

In 2012 we, a country with a mostly white populous, reelected a black president after the worst fiscal performance of all time AND 8 straight years of war following his unearned Nobel "Peace Prize" . And we knowingly have millions of illegal immigrants .
We do not have systemic racism, at least from whites towards others . Period. The proof is in the pudding

[Docthehun]

Talk about going around "Ben's barn" to make a point that right in front of you. I was watching that clip saying "spit it the $#@! out son, make your point". I can't watch C_SPAN because it seems to induce HBP where I'm normally under good control without medication except a lasix. But if you have a stronger stomach than I watch C-SPAN and divide the time into some catagories.
1) Puttting down other members and parties
2) Horn Blowing
3) Useless rhetoric taking seven minutes to say 2 minutes worth of content
4) Down right bickering
5) Actually meaningfully addressing the issues before them

Well, I only watch Fox State Business News and all five of the above apply. Your point?

[Crepitus]

And that is fine. But the longer you continue to paint all disagreement as racially/sexist based, the further your side will lose support. People do not like being called intolerant for holding opposing opinions.

I am sorry that it seems like that to you.

[Crepitus]

And your proof of the assertion of racism is...what, exactly?

The evidence of my own eyes and ears.

[del]

In 2012 we, a country with a mostly white populous, reelected a black president after the worst fiscal performance of all time AND 8 straight years of war following his unearned Nobel "Peace Prize" . And we knowingly have millions of illegal immigrants .
We do not have systemic racism, at least from whites towards others . Period. The proof is in the pudding
2012-2008=4

your grasp of facts seems tenuous.

[Crepitus]

Do you actually believe any of the nonsense you post?

Everything. Don't you?

[Crepitus]

Fiscal conservativism is out of the picture (which is tragic from my perspective). For the last two years I have been explaining this.

Nationalism v. Globalism is what drives politics in the West now.

So the answer to my question is "yes".

[Crepitus]

If we are going to do that, I want to pay-as-you-go.

Who pays though?

[Crepitus]

Sorry, but for the racist Democrats it all has to be about race. I have no use for a president who hates America and I really don't care what color he claims to be.

What kind of American orders people from the Syria into the U.S. willy-nilly and sends Cubans back to the dictators running their island? What kind of American allies himself with Iran and Hamas against our ally, Israel? What kind of American attends a church for twenty years where the minister, his mentor, screams, "God damn America?"

I realize that since Democrats cannot accept responsibility for anything they've done they have to blame someone, each other, or someone else. Lacking a sense of responsibility means lacking any sense of shame.

Your confirmation bias is showing.

[DGUtley]

Who pays though?

everybody.

[Crepitus]

everybody.

I think this wall is useless silly grandstanding, I don't want to pay for it. Where do I send my complaint?

[Hal Jordan]

The evidence of my own eyes and ears.

Subjective evidence of a few (especially in Kansas)is worthless in the whole.

[Hal Jordan]

I think this wall is useless silly grandstanding, I don't want to pay for it. Where do I send my complaint?
Start with your state representatives. Don't email them. Don't mail them call them. They're far more likely to pay attention to that.

[donttread]

Well, I only watch Fox State Business News and all five of the above apply. Your point?

My point is that while congress is doing 1-4 they aren't doing the job we pay them to do and it literally pisses me off so badly that watching it is unhealthy for me. About 3 or 4 out of every 5 minutes is completely non-productive BS. They should be held accountable by the voters in a great many ways , one of which is productive hours in session , not this bullshit.

[Crepitus]

Subjective evidence of a few (especially in Kansas)is worthless in the whole.

Never-the-less it is the evidence of our own personal experiences that we base our opinions on.

[Crepitus]

Start with your state representatives. Don't email them. Don't mail them call them. They're far more likely to pay attention to that.

I have tried that, not with this issue but with others. You cannot speak to a live person no matter how hard you try or long you wait.

[patrickt]

Uh, no.
Uh, yes. I realize for racist liberals everything has to be about race. Can't be about hating America?

[Crepitus]

Uh, yes. I realize for racist liberals everything has to be about race. Can't be about hating America?

So, why do you hate america?

[DGUtley]

I have tried that, not with this issue but with others. You cannot speak to a live person no matter how hard you try or long you wait.

That is so true. I call Senator Brown and Senator Portman regularly and only get a staffer. I leave my name but they will only send talking points.

Funny story: In the run-up to the ACA, I called a few times and left messages for John Boccieri my then-representative. I made the comment to the staffer that it was funny how this left-wing Democrat wouldn't call me but Ralph Regula a nice solid Republican would call people back. Well, I'm sitting at my desk one day and the secretary buzzed in: "Congressman Boccieri is on the line". yeah yeah... I picked up the phone: Ok, who is this... It was him!! Eventually we met a few times and made a bet -- if he voted for the ACA, he'd lose. He voted for the ACA, he lost. Good guy, too bad.

[Crepitus]

That is so true. I call Senator Brown and Senator Portman regularly and only get a staffer. I leave my name but they will only send talking points.

Funny story: In the run-up to the ACA, I called a few times and left messages for John Boccieri my then-representative. I made the comment to the staffer that it was funny how this left-wing Democrat wouldn't call me but Ralph Regula a nice solid Republican would call people back. Well, I'm sitting at my desk one day and the secretary buzzed in: "Congressman Boccieri is on the line". yeah yeah... I picked up the phone: Ok, who is this... It was him!! Eventually we met a few times and made a bet -- if he voted for the ACA, he'd lose. He voted for the ACA, he lost. Good guy, too bad.

You can't even get a staffer here, only various people's voicemail.

[NapRover]

I have tried that, not with this issue but with others. You cannot speak to a live person no matter how hard you try or long you wait.
I guess that's a big advantage of living in a rural town. My congressman, Bob Latta, comes here at least once per quarter. I doubt if he'd know me by name, but when we make eye contact, he at least comes over to shake hands. We're Facebook friends and I don't feel awkward at all about letting him know where I stand on any issue. He just hosted our church kids for a little tour when they went to D.C. For the right to life march. He has come to some tea party meetings, and I might add, he has taken some abuse there!

[donttread]

I have tried that, not with this issue but with others. You cannot speak to a live person no matter how hard you try or long you wait.

Yeah, I'm thinking I'd get VM or a low level aide at best. If I happen to know an aide or Assemblyman in the office I might t get a call back from a high level aide or Cheif of Staff but I'm not confident that my issue would ever be uttered to the Assemblyman

[pjohns]

The [proof of racism is the] evidence of my own eyes and ears.
Could you elaborate upon that, please?

In any case, just how would you reason that "the election of a black man" to the presidency is what caused the end of civility in political discourse?

[Crepitus]

I guess that's a big advantage of living in a rural town. My congressman, Bob Latta, comes here at least once per quarter. I doubt if he'd know me by name, but when we make eye contact, he at least comes over to shake hands. We're Facebook friends and I don't feel awkward at all about letting him know where I stand on any issue. He just hosted our church kids for a little tour when they went to D.C. For the right to life march. He has come to some tea party meetings, and I might add, he has taken some abuse there!

I actually went to high school with the previous rep, but when he got busted with a car full of hookers and blow they canned him of course.

[MisterVeritis]

I think this wall is useless silly grandstanding, I don't want to pay for it. Where do I send my complaint?
You may post it here.

[Crepitus]

Could you elaborate upon that, please?

In any case, just how would you reason that "the election of a black man" to the presidency is what caused the end of civility in political discourse?

Did you not live through the last 8 years?

[Crepitus]

You may post it here.

I think people have already figured that out.

[MisterVeritis]

I think people have already figured that out.

:grin:

[pjohns]

Did you not live through the last 8 years?
Major premise: The president for "the last 8 years" was black.

Minor premise: Many white people strongly disliked the policies of that president.

Conclusion: Those white people must simply be racist.

Question: Do you not find anything fundamentally flawed with that syllogism?

[Crepitus]

Major premise: The president for "the last 8 years" was black.

Minor premise: Many white people strongly disliked the policies of that president.

Conclusion: Those white people must simply be racist.

Question: Do you not find anything fundamentally flawed with that syllogism?

It's quite a bit more complex than that.

[NapRover]

I actually went to high school with the previous rep, but when he got busted with a car full of hookers and blow they canned him of course.

I bet he was a fun classmate!!

[Crepitus]

I bet he was a fun classmate!!

Class of '85 RULES!

[decedent]

We give kids "timeouts", why not this bunch?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/09/marco-rubio-just-gave-a-really-important-speech-but-almost-no-one-paid-attention/

Little Marco grew a pair... half a year too late. He's one of the few Republicans who could have swayed some Democrats over.

[Hal Jordan]

I have tried that, not with this issue but with others. You cannot speak to a live person no matter how hard you try or long you wait.

Don't stop calling. Leave long messages. If nothing you're taking up time that would be used for other things, and the more people are doing that, the more push for the issue.